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They are not omnipotent. Not omniscience beings (excuse my bad english, i am german) and have never shown signs of omnipresence.

TOAA and Presence was surpassed by the Brothers, as they would never just let their dimensions get fused without appearing. And why didnt they just choosed to eist BEYOND the Brothers? They are omnipotent, shouldnt that be a small feat? NO.

And Living Tribunal is claimed as omniscient, he shall have known that Thanos would get the Heart of the Universe and trumph him and stopped him, which he didnt.

So... No Omnipowers in comics,only really strong realityshaping

Hey Judge.

Are there any concrete evidence in omnipotence, omniscience or omnipresence in comics?

Originally posted by Einer
They are not omnipotent. Not omniscience beings (excuse my bad english, i am german) and have never shown signs of omnipresence.

I will treat you like you arent the judge, even though you are.
I'll rest in my case.


The-One-Above-All and the Presnece don't actually have any real features, there are some theories, which brings us to the writers and editors.
The Brothers however was supose to represent the staff of Marvel and DC, so they were stated to be supreme.
But the Brothers affection is irrelevant since it's non canon material, Amalgam = non canon, pluss, they're retconned.

But it's like saying if The-One-Above-All didn't exist, and neither would his power've had (the Heart) then you could say that the Living Tribunal is omnipotent, because he can do anything short of opposing The-One-Above-All, so if he isnt there the Living Tribunal could do anything.


If The-One-Above-All had a plan, then he could've made the Living Tribunal follow it ...


Well there is omnipotence at many levels. As I said, the only thing the Living Tribunal cannot do is do something against The-One-Above-All's will, same goes for others.

So, yes omnipotence is illustrated at prime in comics.

Originally posted by Estacado
Hey Judge.

My thoughts exactly

Yet, Living Tribunal is beneath Molecule Man and Pre-Retcon Beyonder?

And omnipotence is ABOSULUTE POWER, it cant be on many levels, as that would mean omnipotence bests omnipotence

Is Judge some Image comic character?

Originally posted by Einer
Yet, Living Tribunal is beneath Molecule Man and Pre-Retcon Beyonder?

And omnipotence is ABOSULUTE POWER, it cant be on many levels, as that would mean omnipotence bests omnipotence
Well I was talking about current.
But I'll make it easier on you, if no one above the Living tribunal would exist, then the Living Tribunal would have full control of the Marvel Omniverse, Absolute Power, as you call it. He would be able to do anything.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
I will treat you like you arent the judge, even though you are.
I'll rest in my case.


The-One-Above-All and the Presnece don't actually have any real features, there are some theories, which brings us to the writers and editors.
The Brothers however was supose to represent the staff of Marvel and DC, so they were stated to be supreme.
But the Brothers affection is irrelevant since it's non canon material, Amalgam = non canon, pluss, they're retconned.

But it's like saying if The-One-Above-All didn't exist, and neither would his power've had (the Heart) then you could say that the Living Tribunal is omnipotent, because he can do anything short of opposing The-One-Above-All, so if he isnt there the Living Tribunal could do anything.


If The-One-Above-All had a plan, then he could've made the Living Tribunal follow it ...


Well there is omnipotence at many levels. As I said, the only thing the Living Tribunal cannot do is do something against The-One-Above-All's will, same goes for others.

So, yes omnipotence is illustrated at prime in comics.

And we must not forget you name thanos Thanos with HOTU was far beyond anything els, we have ever seen, and it was shown that it was the TOAA's powers now if he absorbed a multiverse ore a universe don't care he was omnipotente and still had restiction on him preformed by TOAA, so yes TOAA is supreme in marvel in any single way. Just not reality warpers, no litterally the GOD in oure religion.

Originally posted by Einer
Is Judge some Image comic character?
Either you're some unknown guy from comicbookresources or narutofan, or your just a sock of a member refered to as the judge.

But no you're not the judge ...

Originally posted by Einer
Yet, Living Tribunal is beneath Molecule Man and Pre-Retcon Beyonder?

And omnipotence is ABOSULUTE POWER, it cant be on many levels, as that would mean omnipotence bests omnipotence

Only according to some people that is for you to decide what you think.

And yes Omnipotente can be on many levels, in comic not in reality, like infinity, there can be different levels of infinity like

1.2.3...... and so on
2.4.6...... and so on

both continue infinite but the one order is higher then the other thus different levels of infinity exist, this is really difficuelt to comprehend for me the first time i heard it

Originally posted by Utrigita
And we must not forget you name thanos Thanos with HOTU was far beyond anything els, we have ever seen, and it was shown that it was the TOAA's powers now if he absorbed a multiverse ore a universe don't care he was omnipotente and still had restiction on him preformed by TOAA, so yes TOAA is supreme in marvel in any single way. Just not reality warpers, no litterally the GOD in oure religion.
Not if we go by non canon material.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9421/59240229wr3.jpg

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Not if we go by non canon material.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9421/59240229wr3.jpg

you said yourself that was non canon a minut ago ore so decide please, because I am debating in this thread only on canon.

So, in comics, there can not be any form of ultimate power, as the possibility of a power surpassing it exists?

And thanos_thotu, haha, i dunno naruto, but have been a member of comicbookresources once for this judgeguy? nah...

Originally posted by Einer
So, in comics, there can not be any form of ultimate power, as the possibility of a power surpassing it exists?

And thanos_thotu, haha, i dunno naruto, but have been a member of comicbookresources once for this judgeguy? nah...
Comicbookresources suck ... Worst forum out there, where fanboyims surpasses omnipotence ect.

How do you define ultimate power?
If you mean a limit, then yes, "infinity + 1" is and will always be a solution.
But then again, nowhere would it be impossible to surpass a limit, in no anime/manga not even in the bible.

But if you see power as authority then the (pre-retcon) Brothers would have the most through all fiction, not just comics.
Since they were to represent the staff of Marvel and DC, so they didn't have the power of just a writer or a editor, but the entire companies.

Originally posted by Utrigita
you said yourself that was non canon a minut ago ore so decide please, because I am debating in this thread only on canon.
Read the text above the picture "If we go by--"

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Read the text above the picture "If we go by--"

Okay yes then that changes it...

(when is mister master coming running in here screaming THEY WHERE WARPED ???)

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
the Presnece don't actually have any real features, there are some theories, which brings us to the writers and editors. hmm

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1512/spectre6101fq0.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6717/spectre6102do2.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2651/spectre6103iz7.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4032/spectre6104vw0.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8225/spectre6105bt0.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2961/spectre6106fo2.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4919/spectre6107ct1.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5435/spectre6108qv0.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5574/spectre6109od9.jpg
credit goes to Skeets.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Okay yes then that changes it...

(when is mister master coming running in here screaming THEY WHERE WARPED ???)
Well he "gave up" on me after he couldent find a scan that proved that they were nearly obliterated.

Yeah, comicbookresources are very fanboyish, the reason i left. but not a bad forum, just infected.

but then, there IS no omnipotence in amrvel or dc, only REALLY high realityshaping levels, as ONE omnipotent being should be beyond the reast

Originally posted by Galan007
hmm

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1512/spectre6101fq0.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6717/spectre6102do2.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2651/spectre6103iz7.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4032/spectre6104vw0.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8225/spectre6105bt0.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2961/spectre6106fo2.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4919/spectre6107ct1.jpg
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5435/spectre6108qv0.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5574/spectre6109od9.jpg
credit goes to Skeets.
Isnt that Yahweh though?

galan, in the second scan, god asked a question, meaning he is not omniscient

Originally posted by Einer
galan, in the second scan, god asked a question, meaning he is not omniscient
It's called sarcasm ...
But yeah the story is a bit flawed.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Isnt that Yahweh though? Yahweh = Vertigo.

Those scans are from Spectre's own series = DC

sarcasm? there is no evidence he was sarcastic, and he only noticed spectre was about to attack him, he huh-ed in a surprised tone before he countered

Originally posted by Einer
sarcasm? there is no evidence he was sarcastic, and he only noticed spectre was about to attack him, he huh-ed in a surprised tone before he countered
It's hard to explain, but there isnt possible to prove either way.

i know what you mean, but i think he is only semi-omniscient

think about it:

a omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresence character would not HAVE any character, only be a semi-living force, cause two omniscient characters will always be the same.

why? they know logic as well as each other and have exactly the same knowledge.

Originally posted by Einer
galan, in the second scan, god asked a question, meaning he is not omniscient Think outside the box Judge.

You're trying to say that an omniscient being is forbidden from asking questions.


Just because someone knows the outcome of any given event, does not mean they can't ask another being a question so this being can figure things out for themselves.



And those scans are more symoblism than anything.

The true Presence would not have a physical being. To do so is to demote him to "earthly" status.

Originally posted by Einer
think about it:

a omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresence character would not HAVE any character, only be a semi-living force, cause two omniscient characters will always be the same.

why? they know logic as well as each other and have exactly the same knowledge.
Again, don't try to define what you cannot comperhend.
Could a omnipotent being create a being more powerful than himself?
If not he's not omnipotent, if he can then he isnt omnipotent either.

But I belive in my hierarchy:

Marvel - DC

Tier 0
Pre-retcon Amalgam Brothers

Tier 1
The-One-Above-All
Presence
Pre-retcon Beyonder? (avatar of the editor)
Thanos with the Heart

Originally posted by Galan007
Think outside the box Judge.

You're trying to say that an omniscient being is forbidden from asking questions.


Just because someone knows the outcome of any given event, does not mean they can't ask another being a question so this being can figure things out for themselves.



And those scans are more symoblism than anything.

The true Presence would not have a physical being. To do so is to demote him to "earthly" status.

This is not the judge, actually, the judge would have a avatar and a signature by now.

just who is this judge i seem to be blamed to be?

but then again, galan has a point, he can ask questions, but check the scan where Spectre attacked Presence. He huh-ed and looked surprised.

Beyonder and Thanos have personality, they cant be setted in same rank as Presence and TOAA. Thanos would just MAKE death like him, otherwise or CREATING lifes for her to live on, without any actual life to take life from

Originally posted by Einer
just who is this judge i seem to be blamed to be?
nvm.


He can act anyway he wants ...


... Personality has nothing to do with power ...
The list was my version of top powers in Marvel/DC.

no nvm, i wanna know who i am accused of being.

you have a point, but he should only use his powers in needed situations, not like this crap

and if he is omnipresence, it HAS. him and TOAA is COMPLETELY identical in personality, as they know everything, knows about wrong, right, good, evil, feelings, emotions, general knowledge, and everything that decides personality. they have the same personality because of that.

Originally posted by Einer
no nvm, i wanna know who i am accused of being.

you have a point, but he should only use his powers in needed situations, not like this crap

and if he is omnipresence, it HAS. him and TOAA is COMPLETELY identical in personality, as they know everything, knows about wrong, right, good, evil, feelings, emotions, general knowledge, and everything that decides personality. they have the same personality because of that.
Yo hippie, add hyper_zone@hotmail.com and we'll talk it out.

A omnipotent being wouldent need to know what's wrong/right ect. Because what he wanted would be wrong/right.

no reason to call me a hippie, and i dont uses messenger, sorry
and you have a point

Allowed the brothers to exist?

It's possible that TOAA/Presence ARE the Brothers.

TOAA and the Presence never even appeared in Marvel vs. DC with the Brothers.

The Brothers were later retconned to be below the LT anyway.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Not if we go by non canon material.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9421/59240229wr3.jpg Umm... you do realize that those comics happened way before the HOTU arc... don't you?

Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
Umm... you do realize that those comics happened way before the HOTU arc... don't you?
Yes, but that was not the only time The-One-Above-All's power was witnessed, what about the creation of the Omniverse?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yes, but that was not the only time The-One-Above-All's power was witnessed, what about the creation of the Omniverse?
Back then there was no one to witness it.

LT and the like were created shortly after the omniverse, not at the same time.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Back then there was no one to witness it.

LT and the like were created shortly after the omniverse, not at the same time.
He himself must have witnessed it, thus it has been witnessed.