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I think Maul would win after a close fight since Qui Gon is also one of the best saber fighter in the Jedi oreder at TPM.

Originally posted by vader11
I think Maul would win after a close fight since Qui Gon is also one of the best saber fighter in the Jedi oreder at TPM.
But Koon is one of the best that the order has ever produced on Courscant, and the temple has been there for about four thousand years. I'd put Kolar above Jinn as well, I doubt Jinn could beat Vos that easily, if he could beat him at all. Personally, I want to go with Maul, but I'm really not sure.

I would say Maul.

DS19, do you think there are any jedi in the movies, besides Anakin,Kenobi,Yoda,Mace that could take Maul in a duel?

I would just put Kolar = Jinn, even if Kolar is better, he won't be much better than Jin. I don't think Kolar is better than both Obi & Jin.

Originally posted by kiddo44
I would say Maul.

DS19, do you think there are any jedi in the movies, besides Anakin,Kenobi,Yoda,Mace that could take Maul in a duel?
Perhaps there are, but I am not sure. Oh, maybe Jedi Dooku, but he's not in the movie
btw, I am not DS19

Yes, Cin Drallig, though that's debatable. I'm also not certain about Agen Kolar.


Really? So you'd say that Jinn was among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced on Coruscant? I'd put him behind Mace, Yoda, Cin, Anoon Bondara, Agen Kolar, Plo Koon, Tyvoka, Quinlan Vos, Luminara Unduli, Ki-Adi Mundi, ROTS Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Depa Billaba, Sora Bulq and Volfe Karkko. Possibly Oppo Rancisis as well. That puts him at about #16. I'd only put the top 10 in the "amons the rgeatest bladesbeings...". And I personally don't even believe that Jinn could take out Vos, let alone as easily as Agen did. Plus he could whoop those thugs to quite the degree that Agen did.


Yeah, uh, (s)he was talking to me...

Originally posted by darthsith19
So you'd say that Jinn was among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced on Coruscant?

Not to be a grammar Nazi, but I can't figure out for the life of me why you keep putting 'on Coruscant', did you notice the dash that comes immediately after "Kolar" and ends at "produced"? It's used to note an impetuous thought. So, please, stop adding unnecessary text.

I go for Maul. Qui-Gon is also a blademaster in TPM, and he had Obi-Wan to aid him as well. Maul takes this after a long duel, but really not a VERY difficult fight for him.

I don't care whether Kolar or Jin is better, or how much you think Kolar is better, since he would still beat by Maul.

Originally posted by Advent
Not to be a grammar Nazi, but I can't figure out for the life of me why you keep putting 'on Coruscant', did you notice the dash that comes immediately after "Kolar" and ends at "produced"? It's used to note an impetuous thought. So, please, stop adding unnecessary text.
Oh, thanks for pointing that out, so it means that Agen is one of the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi ever produced anywhere? Sorry I missed that, yeah, that puts him even higher.



True that Jinn lost even with Kenobi on his side, but Kolar is one of the best bladesbeings ever produced by the Jedi, now that Advent has corrected my blundering mistake I'd also put Ulic, Kun and Traya above Jinn, I'm not sure how strong Revan and Malak were as Jedi so I can't say for them. I'd put Hoth above him, as well. Puts Jinn at about 20 as far as Jedi go. Really, Agen is not a LOT above Jinn, but he's a fair bit above him, I'm actually leaning towards Kolar (shows that favorites aren't always picked!). I can't see Maul beating Vos like Kolar did. He pretty much pwnd Vos, yeah that's stupid, it should have been a lot closer, but it wasn't. I'd say that Maul would have a fair bit of trouble taking out Vos. True, Vos wasn't trying to hurt Kolar is he didn't have to, but still, Kolar wasn't trying to hurt Vos, just capture him, so.

Ya, that fight seems stupid, that was like putting Kolar on par with Dooku, which itn't true. If Kolar can pwn Vos, they can made Maul pwn Vos too.

Originally posted by darthsith19
True that Jinn lost even with Kenobi on his side, but Kolar is one of the best bladesbeings ever produced by the Jedi, now that Advent has corrected my blundering mistake I'd also put Ulic, Kun and Traya above Jinn, I'm not sure how strong Revan and Malak were as Jedi so I can't say for them. I'd put Hoth above him, as well. Puts Jinn at about 20 as far as Jedi go. Really, Agen is not a LOT above Jinn, but he's a fair bit above him, I'm actually leaning towards Kolar (shows that favorites aren't always picked!). I can't see Maul beating Vos like Kolar did. He pretty much pwnd Vos, yeah that's stupid, it should have been a lot closer, but it wasn't. I'd say that Maul would have a fair bit of trouble taking out Vos. True, Vos wasn't trying to hurt Kolar is he didn't have to, but still, Kolar wasn't trying to hurt Vos, just capture him, so.

True that we dont know much about Revan and Malak, but because of all of Revan's feats i'd say he beats Kolar. He's at least powerful enough to be the Dark Lord of the Sith and the most powerful Jedi in that time. I don't think Kolar would be much of a match for him, and neither would Maul. But, whatever, it is just my personal opinion. So, let's just say Revan is above, and take him and Ulic, and Traya, and Kun, and Hoth out of the debate, since it has nothing to do with the topic.

One single duel cannot proof how good Kolar is.

I never mentioned a single duel.

Originally posted by Riverollv
I never mentioned a single duel. Since I was not referring to you

Maybe EU Kolar is close to Dooku, and the films just screwed his character over. No, Maul can never pwn Vos. You know, disregarding the film, there's nothing to say that Kolar isn't on par with Dooku, so.



I know, Revan > Kolar, I was just saying that I didn't know how good Revan was as a Jedi so I didn't know if Jinn's saber skills were behind Jedi Revan's or not. Those otehr Jedi mentioned do have to do with the debate, as they are all above Jinn in saber combat, and Jinn pertains to this fight as he fought Maul.





I think that he was talking to me (right?). Well, since besides the ROTS duel which I asked everyone to disregard, that's the only duel that Kolar is in so it has to be used as proof. The other things that Kolar does doesn't show him as weaker than that, or anything, plus that quote from the novel agrees with how good Kolar was in that saber duel. Hmm, Kolar might have been stronger than I realized. If only it wasn't for damn ROTS!

Kolar does stand a chance

Ofcoz I don't think Maul can pwn Vos, but on the other hand, I still doubt if Kolar can pwn Vos. If he can, that means Koon, Fisto, or other Jedi can pwn Vos too(maybe). And Dooku is definitely better than Kolar.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Kolar does stand a chance I think so.

Why, exactly, would we disregard a duel that happens in the movies? Kolar is just as good as before. Sidious just really is that much better. However, Maul was close to a TPM Sidious in saber combat. He also "mastered the lightsaber," along with practicing Teras Kasi and marksmanship.

Maul beat Qui Gon, who was on par with Mace Windu (as of TPM) and the best duelist Obi Wan had ever seen (as of TPM), in 30 seconds flat. Maul also held both Qui Gon and his Padawan (might I point out that Obi Wan was Knighted the next day) off, and the pair made no progress.

Random crap from TPM Novel:
"Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one of the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance. He had survived battles that had tested his skill and resolve in every conceivable way.
But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi - Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger."

"Together, they were able to hold their own against the Sith Lord, but their efforts at attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate.
Darth Maul was a warrior in his prime, never to be any better, his powers at their apex. In addition, he was driven by his messianic hatred for and disdain of the Jedi Knights, the enemies of the Sith for millennia. He had worked and trained all his life for this moment, for a chance to meet a Jedi Knight in combat. It was an added bonus that he was able to engage two. He had no fear for himself, no doubt that he would win. He was focused in a way that Qui-Gon recognized at once-a Jedi's focus, mindful of the present, locked in on what was needed in the here and now. Qui-Gon saw it in his mad eyes and in the set of his red and black tattooed features. The Sith Lord was a living example of what the Jedi Master was always telling Obi-Wan about how best to hear the will of the Force."

And DarthSith, did you really just put Traya above Qui Gon inn saber combat? Most of the people in your list were debatable, but when I got to Traya, that's just ridiculous. Do you mean the Jedi with no dueling prowess to her name whatsoever, or a one handed old hag?

Just how did you reach that conclusion?

Sorry for the double post.

Nice post for a change! thumbs_up


It doesn't matter if you doubt that Kolar can pwn Vos, because he already did. How does that mean that Koon and Fisto can pwn Vos, too? Maybe Kolar is ahead of them. What makes you say that Dooku is definitely ahead of Kolar?


Because the movie screws Kolar (and Tiin, and Fisto, to a lesser extent) over. Obviously, Lucas doesn't know how strong Kolar is in EU, so he just made Kolar the way he wanted Kolar to be. Which is stupid and inconsistent. Since everything else about Kolar away from the movie is consistent, we should use that. Otherwise we could just say "f*ck EU, a single Cloonetrooper with a saber could beat Kolar!" which is stupid.


That's great. Kolar would beat Jinn, too. Has Kenobi ever seen Kolar fight? Qui-Gon was already tired by the time that Maul beat him in 30 seconds, cause they had been fighting before that for several minutes. That's pretty impressive, but who's to say Kolar couldn't hold them, off, too? So you think that Maul could school Quinlan Vos?

Among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced > One of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. Okay, and who else did that master train? Not Kolar, apparently, or Mace, Dooku, Koon, Tyvoka, Anoon Bondara, and other Jedi.


I seriously doubt that Jinn could handle three lightsaber floating in the air and attacking him at the same time. That's almost as bad as Grievous's four lightsabers, and Jinn wouldn't stand a chance against those.

yes, but you know what Lucas says trumps everything.

In that quote from the Making of book, "You have to be Yoda or Mace to hang with Sidious, Anakin could have beat him if he did not get messed up." In describing why Kolar,Fisto and Tiin lose so easily b/c they are the B team.

I think it was sh*t. I mean, It really sucks that such cool Jedi were killed SO easily. I know that what you say makes sense, but it was just not a good thing for Lucas to do.

Proof that Kolar is better than Koon & Fisto. Also proof that why he is on par with Dooku.

Kolar is NOT on par with Dooku! who said that, vader11?

darthsith19: "Maybe EU Kolar is close to Dooku", "How does that mean that Koon and Fisto can pwn Vos, too? Maybe Kolar is ahead of them. What makes you say that Dooku is definitely ahead of Kolar?"

Originally posted by darthsith19
What makes you say that Dooku is definitely ahead of Kolar?

Because he plainly is, darthsith.

I don't know why or how you can come to such conclusions like that of Agen "Mincemeat" Kolar is on par with Count Dooku, who simply has enough expertise to best General Grievous (who would beat Kolar), who has shown the ability to defeat both Master Tholme, and Sora Bulq, two formidable swordsmen (the latter a practitioner of Vaapad, mind you), who did overcome Asajj Ventress (albeit, she's weaker than in Obsession, at that point), among other things (such as defeat Obi-Wan, then Anakin, and still be able to fend off Yoda).

I suppose Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto are also in league with Darth Tyranus, given Yoda proclaims both of them as " of the greatest swordsmen Order has ever produced"?

Really, you're even more dense than I previously thought. We don't need your unestablished horse shit theories.



Which is absolute. George Lucas doesn't have to conform to the Expanded Universe, it's vice versa.



No, we couldn't.

Explain to me how that statement would be viable if we disregarded the EU. Indeed, it wouldn't, due to the fact a clone trooper has never shown the capabilities to handle a blade with skill above that of Ashla, at best. Plus, you can merely deduce from the fact Agen's had years of experience, and training, whereas a clone trooper has had none of either.



Qui-Gon Jinn had also revitalized himself. Perhaps you missed his meditation when the energy rays blocked the walkway?

"He had found a fresh reserve of strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied." (The Phantom Menace, Ch. 23).

Furthermore, the script also says that Qui-Gon was fighting with 'a ferocity not seen before'. Likewise, the same applies for Darth Maul, who not only had to fend off Qui-Gon beforehand, but also had to focus his attention on Obi-Wan additionally. As well, to top that of, Darth Maul was injured to a degree, as you so eagerly pointed out in another thread.

I'm not arguing that Darth Maul would win (but I'll say that he would), as I could really care less what you have to say about it, but it's quite funny how you exclude all the facts surrounding the situation itself, and pick and choose what you want.

I'd also like to point out, again, that you've stated Darth Maul "nearly killed" Darth Sidious, and that he defeated Anoon Bondara, described by the omniscient narrator in Shadow Hunter, as having "skill with a lightsaber second to none" (although, that's debatable it still speaks volumes).

Originally posted by vader11
Also proof that why he is on par with Dooku.

He isn't, I really don't know why anyone listens to or even acknowledges darthsith's ramblings. I'm sure he'll come in with a multitude of miscellaneous bullshit, though. He always does.

1. I come up with them based on his fight with Vos.
2. Proof that Grievous > Kolar, even though Kolar tooled Vos and is one of the best bladesbeings the order has ever produced?
3. Vos beat Tholme and Bulq, and Kolar tooled Vos.
4. Kolar would beat AOTC Anakin and Kenobi. Seeing how badly he tooled Vos, he could likely hold off Yoda for nearly as long as Dooku did.
5. Kolar would take out Asajj. I doubt Asajj could tool Vos like that.
6. When did Yoda proclaim Tiin and Fisto two of the greatest swordsman that the order has ever produced?




It was a continuity error and should therefor be disregarded.


If we disregarded EU then Agen can only move a couple inches in 2 seconds. Assuming that a Clone Trooper could lift up a saber just as quickly as he can lift a blaster, he can at least move it 2 feet in a second, which is loads faster than movie Kolar can. ESB Han could beat movie Agen in a saber duel, he moved Luke's saber several times faster than Kolar moves his saber in the movie. That's ridiculous.


True, but due to his age, Jinn's fresh reserve of strength wore away quickly. I just can't see Maul tooling Vos so easily.


Yes, I'm assuming that the auothor didn't know how good Yoda was with a blade, though, he's got to be above Anoon Bondara. Even if Anoon is #2, though, that only means that he was above Kolar at that time, by the time of the Clone Wars Koalr could be ahead of Bondara. Judging only by his duel with Vos and disregading ROTS, Kolar could put up a good fight against Sidious, though I doubt he'd nearly kill him.


Now come with your 5 page rebuttal, just try not to throw to many insults out, it makes you look bad, okay?


Proof that Koon or Fisto could pwn Vos like Kolar did? Fisto lost to Ventress, Ventress is above Vos, but not by much. Koon... changing the temperature, freezing rivers and shooting out electric judgement are pretty impressive Force Powers, but I doubt he could beat Vos so easily. What ahs he done that puts him that far above Vos? He could be on par with Dooku, judging from his duel with Vos. You even said "that fight seems stupid, that was like putting Kolar on par with Dooku".

the movie should be disregarded?



He could not do either one of these, even if he had a good fight against Vos.

Originally posted by kiddo44
the movie should be disregarded?



He could not do either one of these, even if he had a good fight against Vos.
Yes, the movie should be disregarded, because it is inconsistent. In other words, this is EU Agen vs. Maul, since ROTS Agen is, for unknown reasons (ie. continuity errors) a thousand times weaker than EU Agen. How couldn't he beat AOTC Anakin and Kenobi, Vos could nearly do it and he tooled Vos. Vos could also last against Yoda for a short while, and Kolar pwnd Vos.

So someone can say Mace>all since he fight so well in CW cartoons? Kolar has a good fight against Vos in EU doesn't mean he is on par with Dooku. He did nothing else that can proof he is as good as Dooku. Also, if Kolar is better than Tiin, Fisto, Koon, & Ki Adi, why didn't he deserved more screen time than them? So, you don't think Maul can pwn Vos? Then you should think Kolar would beat Maul.

i agree with that more. You know what Lucas says is fact.

I don't think the movie should be disregarded in this case, but really, that scene doesn't say anything about Agen's skills, as it's fairly obvious that Sidious must have slowed down his reflexes or employed a partial force stun or something, as there's no way Agen's that shit, it's just not possible.

Originally posted by kiddo44
i agree with that more. You know what Lucas says is fact. Yes, the EU Comic should be disregarded

1.) So, merely because he had one victory over Quinlan Vos easily, he's on par with Count Dooku? Then why isn't General Grievous, who tore through five talented Jedi Knights at once in league with him? I'd love to see Agen battle Ki-Adi-Mundi, Shaak Ti, Aayla, K'Kruhk, and Tarr Sierr all at once, without using any Force powers.

2.) Originally posted by Advent
We know he's killed such people as Master T'Chooka, Adi Gallia, and numerous other Jedi. At one point, Grievous is able to hold of five (or was it seven?) Jedi at once with only two lightsabers. Including Aayla Secura, and Council member, Ki-Adi Mundi. As I said, he was able to easily slice through Master T'Chooka who is described by the omniscient narrator as having "great skill" and being "strong in the Force":

http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/1833/tchookahl9.th.jpg
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5219/tchookadeathwp5.th.jpg

Council Member and Jedi Master, Adi Gallia, as I said, was first pwned in a saberlock by General Grievous' extra hands, which I'd submit would happen to Maul as well probably:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6929/ggpwnsadigz9.th.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4007/grievouspwnsadi2zg6.th.jpg

That's two out of the numerous other Jedi he's killed. The Jedi Council even gives acknowledgment that General Grievous himself, not the army, is a threat to the Republic and the Jedi Order. They note his skill as exactly "the near indestructibility of a droid wedded with the skill of a deadly warrior":

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3367/deadlyskillxt3.th.jpg

In Labryinth of Evil, he's described as "Once merely a barbaric living being; now a cyborg monstrosity, devoted to death and destruction. Already the butcher of entire populations; the devastator of countless worlds...". I mean, Grievous competed with, and bested both Asajj Ventress and Durge at the same time.

From Labryinth of Evil: "The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg."

As it seems, that is completely true. There's few Jedi that are capable of defeating him, as we've seen many fall to his blade. Losing to ROTS Obi-Wan is hardly a negative for Grievous, btw. And it even says Count Dooku had had trouble at times to outduel Grievous. We also know that he fights smart if he's being outdueled, definitely smarter than Darth Maul ever was.

"These Jedi were more proficient than the ones he had fought in the bunker, but not skilled enough to challenge him."

This is just proving how Jedi really are no match for Grievous, he takes them out within a split second of raising his lightsaber. He's obviously a very capable duelist, to think Maul is more skilled with a lightsaber is ridiculous. Grievous annihilates Jedi as if they were nothing. He's also capable of dodging fully automatic fire, and ripping an assault vehicle down with apparent ease with his lightsaber.

As well, from Dark Rendezvous - "Possibly Asajj Ventress, his protegee, would be there, clamoring to be made his apprentice. He had a meeting scheduled with the formidable General Grievous, who was even more powerful than Ventress, but a great deal less interesting as a dinner-table conversationalist."

Grievous is described as being "more powerful than Ventress", who is extremely skillfull in her own right. Anyways, to sum up this post: Grievous wins is better than Agen Kolar.

When battling Mace Windu, the narrator describes General Grievous's strikes as "forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing". He's faster, more capable in terms of strength, and his computer analysis system allowed him to partially decipher Mace Windu's Vaapad in seconds. Now, in this scenario, he would have an advantage of knowing all of the traditional lightsaber forms, and even Kolar's own; whereas General Grievous' style can be unpredictable, to say the least, and he wields four lightsabers, something Agen has never encountered, to my knowledge.

3. Quinlan beat Sora Bulq and Tholme combined? Where does this happen exactly? Nowhere? More importantly, didn't Vos get a lucky hit on Sora? I seem to recall that was the case, as you've even admitted it in a previous thread.

Oh, and it's rather comedic how even after I call you out on not including all the details surrounding specific events, that you still do it:

Originally posted by darthsith19
if Sora hadn't gotten overconfident he'd have beaten Quinlan.

4. Yes, Agen "Mincemeat" Kolar can withstand Obi-Wan, who made Count Dooku "work furiously" to keep Kenobi's lightsaber at bay, at one point, and Anakin, who exhausted Count Dooku even further. Then be able to repel a fresh Yoda for an amount of time, despite the fact he was owned in seconds by Darth Sidious, who Yoda actually is on par with.

5. I doubt Agen could handle Asajj so easily. Again, you're concluding Kolar is supposedly 'on par' with Count Dooku, merely because of one defeat over Quinlan Vos? That's purely ridiculous.

6. The RotS novelization, chapter 19 when Yoda is discussing Palpatine with Obi-Wan:

"Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee -- four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced"

So, again, I pose the question: are Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto also in league with Darth Tyranus?



In case you didn't read,

Originally posted by Advent
George Lucas doesn't have to conform to the Expanded Universe, it's vice versa.

There is no such thing as a 'continuity error' from the highest form of canon, unless George Lucas has indicated such. For reference,

" When determining canon levels for individual entries, anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon." (Leland Chee, What is the Holocron?, May 25, 2005).

Movies > EU. Movies > Your bullshit. QED.



Again, you're daftness is astounding.

This logic does not follow on the grounds that a clone trooper isn't Darth Sidious.



No, by very reason, Agen is faster than a clone troopers. Simply because he cannot respond quickly enough to defend against Darth Sidious' attacks doesn't mean he'd be that sluggish in every scenario. Now, you can still use the occurrence in RotS to support an argument, because it shows Kolar's skill isn't anywhere near that of Sidious', so why would it be close to Count Dooku's?

Moreover, your reasoning would still be faulty, unless you can prove a clone trooper could do any better in the situation Kolar, and the other Jedi were in.

So, try again, noob.



Your statement is flawed, because Darth Sidious was just that much faster, and that much better where he could react before half of the Jedi could even move.

In addition to that, Agen would've been dead in AotC if that were true, seeing how he fought on screen, deflected blaster bolts, and thusly moved his lightsaber more than 'two inches per second' (see: the Battle of Geonosis).

It's simply the fact that he just cannot compare to Darth Sidious, neither could Kit, or Saesee.



He doesn't necessarily have to for him to be the more formidable duelist. And nevertheless, Darth Maul did no such thing as meditate to regain what energy he had lost, and he was injured to an extent.

And using your logic, Darth Maul beats Agen Kolar on sheer virtue that he "nearly killed" Darth Sidious, according to you, whereas Kolar paled in comparison. I can't, and didn't see Agen coming close to outmatching Darth Sidious in lightsaber combat.

Despite the fact that he listed Yoda ability with a lightsaber as "second to none on the council". Which is completely true, therefore you're assumption is inaccurate, and baseless.



You can't disregard a situation of where we've explicity seen what happens, and it's not wasn't a 'What if'-esque comic, it was a "G"-canon source. Agen Kolar went down in seconds flat, ergo one could properly assume that, at best (due to the circumstances), he'd go down in a a minimal amount of time, without Darth Sidious nearly exerting the upper limit of his capabilities.



How does it give off any impression of negativity? It might imply that I'm a jackass, but clearly, when you're completely wrong, and full of shit -- its justified.

Given that I'm often said to be one of the best debaters, if not the best, and I fling around degrading comments as often as a monkey flings shit, it must not mean much, now does it?

You're a dumbass. Oops, there I go again!

Where did you find those comic strips?

She mugged someone for them.

Actually, wasn't it you that I mugged, Apollo?

Also,

Originally posted by Advent
therefore you're assumption is inaccurate, and baseless.

I meant to say 'your'. Silly me.

No, I'm way too gangstar for that.

Maul wins, i think that quote that Fisto, Kolar, Sease and Mace, are 4 greatest swordsman that Order has ever produced, was just to show that they are very good, but i don't think it is correct, it doesn't even include people like Yoda, ROTS Kenobi, Anakin, Dooku, all of this are much better then those in the quote, except for Mace of course.
And Maul is very good and had probably big potential, Sidious wouldn't chose a weak apprentice.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Maul wins, i think that quote that Fisto, Kolar, Sease and Mace, are 4 greatest swordsman that Order has ever produced, was just to show that they are very good, but i don't think it is correct, it doesn't even include people like Yoda, ROTS Kenobi, Anakin, Dooku, all of this are much better then those in the quote, except for Mace of course.
And Maul is very good and had probably big potential, Sidious wouldn't chose a weak apprentice. Would you believe Kolar is on par with Dooku?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
i think that quote that Fisto, Kolar, Sease and Mace, are 4 greatest swordsman that Order has ever produced, was just to show that they are very good, but i don't think it is correct, it doesn't even include people like Yoda, ROTS Kenobi, Anakin, Dooku, all of this are much better then those in the quote, except for Mace of course.

Although I don't really care for darthsith's arguments, why would it necessarily have to? Obviously, if you were able to comprehend the context of the quote, you would see that it's referring to the individuals who were left 'on Coruscant', and accompanied Mace. So, there's no reason to include Yoda, Kenobi, Anakin, etc.

However, the quote hardly means much, anyways, and doesn't exactly indicate that much, just that, as you said, he's talented. It in no way puts him even on the same level as Obi-Wan, much less Count Dooku, and it definitely doesn't mean Darth Maul would lose to him (because he wouldn't).

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Maul wins, i think that quote that Fisto, Kolar, Sease and Mace, are 4 greatest swordsman that Order has ever produced, was just to show that they are very good, but i don't think it is correct, it doesn't even include people like Yoda, ROTS Kenobi, Anakin, Dooku, all of this are much better then those in the quote, except for Mace of course.
And Maul is very good and had probably big potential, Sidious wouldn't chose a weak apprentice.

Of course Maul is NOT weak. We can all easily notice Sidious ONLY chose the best of the best he could find:
-Anakin-Sidious and the Jedi knew that if Anakin would have reached his max potential, he would've become the most Powerful Sith/Jedi that ever existed.
-Luke-Sidious knew Luke had his father's genes and almost the same amount of potential (if not more), so he obviously knew he would become the most powerful of all, since his father was left weakened after the battle against Kenobi on Mustafar and would never been able to reach his max potential.
-Dooku-Sidious knew Dooku was the most powerful of the Order (at least when he made him his apprentice), without counting Yoda and maybe Mace.

So, therefore, we can obviously say Maul is very powerful, at least the most powerful Sidious could find. I say Maul>>Kolar.

Most people agree that Maul takes this one.

Because he dose.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Because he dose. Ya

Yeah, Maul takes this one, but he has a bit of a fight on his hands.

From another thread:

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Anoon Bondara was "one of the best fighters in the order. His skill with a lightsaber was second to none."
Darsha Assant "even as an infant she had shown strong Force tendencies," and the day she went to become a Jedi Knight, she "hoped that one day she might be able to exhibit a tenth of Anoon Bondara's adeptness."
When Maul fought Anoon, Maul knew "within the first few moments of the engagement, Darth Maul knew that he himself was the superior fighter."
For Darsha, "It was hard for her to conceive of a situation in which her mentor could be bested in combat, but if anyone was capable of it, she had the feeling the Sith was that one."
Maul made quick work of Anoon, driving him back and then, Anoon, realizing after seconds of confrontation, that he didn't have nearly enough skills to take on Maul, stabbed a speeder bike's engine in attempt to kill both of them. However, in the "microsecond" that Maul had to jump off the platform that the two had been battling on to dodge the explosion, Maul was out of harms way.


If Maul is put on the defensive, he has the speed to dodge pretty much everything that's thrown at him, or he can spin his twin blades "so fast they seemed to merge into a crimson shield."

Also, read through this: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=001
If the fact that it's 90 pages of flipping through turns you off, remember that it's a comic, and, it's about Maul, so naturally, the dialogue is minimal, and, it really doesn't take long.

...That's what I thought.

kolar

Master Kolar Will Win

Originally posted by Banjo Broski
Master Kolar Will Win

Dave Filoni has outright confirmed that Savage Opress alone performed better against Sidious than Kolar/Tiin/Fisto.

Simply put Maul>Opress>Kolar.

Or: Maul and Opress >> Tiin + Fisto + Kolar.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Dave Filoni has outright confirmed that Savage Opress alone performed better against Sidious than Kolar/Tiin/Fisto.

Simply put Maul>Opress>Kolar.

Or: Maul and Opress >> Tiin + Fisto + Kolar.

Maul Lose To A Padawan & Kolar Lose To Sidious Because Sidious Cheat. Master Kolar>>>Darth Maul.

& Filoni Never Said That Liar.

Originally posted by Banjo Broski
Maul Lose To A Padawan & Kolar Lose To Sidious Because Sidious Cheat. Master Kolar>>>Darth Maul.

& Filoni Never Said That Liar.
Yes he did. Look it up if you must.

This thread alone can discredit the validty of KMC.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Really? So you'd say that Jinn was among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced on Coruscant? I'd put him behind Mace, Yoda, Cin, Anoon Bondara, Agen Kolar, Plo Koon, Tyvoka, Quinlan Vos, Luminara Unduli, Ki-Adi Mundi, ROTS Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Depa Billaba, Sora Bulq and Volfe Karkko. Possibly Oppo Rancisis as well. That puts him at about #16.

Bondara confirmed superior to Jinn, even though Jinn humbled him.

I'm not touchin anything else here.