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Just out of curiosity, what would you guys like to see with some characters in terms of their roster of villains? What annoys you with, say, Batman's rogues, and how would you like them to change? What would you add, what would you take away, what themes do you think work the best and which fall flat?

IE, I personally dislike Flash's villains (here come the bullets, haha) because it just seems to me like the only way he loses is for PIS/CIS reasons. The fastest man alive should be able to dodge boomerangs, you know? Captain Boomerang, to me, would work better as a Daredevil villain (but Bullseye's better) or a villain for Batman. I'd like to see the Flash fight more villains that make it so his incredible speed might not help him 100%.

What things would you like to see out of certain villain rosters? Spider-Man needs stronger villains? Superman needs more earthbound villains? Etc?

Flash has one of the best rogue galleries around, just behind Batman and Spider-Man, I don't think it needs changing at all.

Nightwing needs a rogues gallery, he sort of had one under Chuck Dixon although only a few were actually interesting and worthy opponents, but most got erased after Devin Grayson's run and he now barely has a collection of his own rogues. I've always thought it would be cool if, given his background and origin, Nightwing faced a team of rogues that were like an evil circus act, meta-human acrobats, magicians, knife throwers, strong men, etc. They could oppose Dick's own circus, Haly's Circus and Nightwing has to stop them or something. Jason Todd could have made a good Nightwing rogue but that story arc with Dick/Jason was one of the worst written you'll ever see and ruined any chance of that.

Actually, Flash's rogues always seemed kinda....B-list to me. But meh.

Spidey's needed a large revamp for a while now. Introducing Morlun was a step in the right direction, but he outgrew probably half his rogues years ago. Fortunately, the writers seem aware of this....Rhino, for example, hasn't been anything but a joke for years now. Others have followed suit.

I want to see Daredevil fight more classic colourful costume wearing heroes whilst Bruabaker is still on the title. As cool as the fights are with gangsters mob bosses or prison inmates, I want to see more super powered/ enhanced rogues

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Rhino, for example, hasn't been anything but a joke for years now.

and yet his last battle with spidey ended with peter a bloody mess on the pavement and needing the cat to come rescue him.


I find it twice as hilarious that he gets taken down by a miniature deadpool just months later.




I've always had a problem with the fact the writers don't really bother to develop the majority of spideys vast rogues gallery. Adding more and more new faces that are just going to be forgotten about in 5 years isn't going to help. Give me some Spider-man : Rogue war


As for the Flash.....maybe add in a few more ZOOOOOOOOOM level threats..but besides that their good.

batman and superman have a good rogues gallery still

Originally posted by Black Adam
and yet his last battle with spidey ended with peter a bloody mess on the pavement and needing the cat to come rescue him.

I find it twice as hilarious that he gets taken down by a miniature deadpool just months later.

I've always had a problem with the fact the writers don't really bother to develop the majority of spideys vast rogues gallery. Adding more and more new faces that are just going to be forgotten about in 5 years isn't going to help. Give me some Spider-man : Rogue war

Wtf. Are you referring to Marvel Knights, where Spidey was either nigh-comatose or fighting numerous opponents at once? Or something different. Because I don't remember that fight.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Wtf. Are you referring to Marvel Knights, where Spidey was either nigh-comatose or fighting numerous opponents at once? Or something different. Because I don't remember that fight.

happened in sensational just a few issues back.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Wtf. Are you referring to Marvel Knights, where Spidey was either nigh-comatose or fighting numerous opponents at once? Or something different. Because I don't remember that fight.

In Sensational he got stomped by Rhino (no pun intended). Rhino kicked his ass. Pete was humiliated.

Great read, actually.

:

Woops, I was wrong. Happened in Unlimited.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6914944#post6914944

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Woops, I was wrong. Happened in Unlimited.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6914944#post6914944

it happened in Sensational as well.


that's two victories, Rhino is on his way to the big leagues

Originally posted by Black Adam
it happened in Sensational as well.


that's two victories, Rhino is on his way to the big leagues

Rhino's on his way to my foot in his *** if he doesn't realize he shouldn't be able to hang with SM anymore. Seriously, Pete draws more money than Wolverine. Why the hell haven't the writers gone crazy with him punking people that are within (and even beyond) his league?

Some arguments I've heard that I agree with:

1. Superman villains should stop just trying to outdo him in sheer strength, but should take advantage of his other weaknesses and they need to be connected to him in some way.

2. Batman should have at least one villain that really knows how to give him a mental strain, more so than the Riddler.

3. Hulk should get some new villains that give him a run for his money. (I personally don't like this World War Hulk storyline much)

4. Sentry should get his own gallery. (But I think he still needs a little bit of time for build up. He's a cool character though).

5. I like the idea of the Sinestro Corps being the anti-GLC. Let's just hope that they don't mess it up.

6. X-Men need to stop just adding random mutants every chance they get and actually start organizing them. There are way too many groups within the X-Men...plus, Apocalypse should really be one of the (if not THE) biggest threats in the series.

7. Daredevil flat out needs some more villains that aren't jokes or from another series.

Originally posted by NoFate007
2. Batman should have at least one villain that really knows how to give him a mental strain, more so than the Riddler.

For the most part, new Bats villains seems like a bad idea, unless they're closely tied to curent ones (ie. Damian), mostly because he has one of the most classic rogue galleries. I WOULD like to see certain rogues given a bit of an upgrade, however. For instance, I wouldn't mind seeing Joker or Riddler (possibly both), actually give him a real test of the mind.

Doop needs more rogues....

Yeah, but coming up with someone that's good enough would be a challenge... hmm

Originally posted by NoFate007
Some arguments I've heard that I agree with:

1. Superman villains should stop just trying to outdo him in sheer strength, but should take advantage of his other weaknesses and they need to be connected to him in some way.

2. Batman should have at least one villain that really knows how to give him a mental strain, more so than the Riddler.

3. Hulk should get some new villains that give him a run for his money. (I personally don't like this World War Hulk storyline much)

4. Sentry should get his own gallery. (But I think he still needs a little bit of time for build up. He's a cool character though).

5. I like the idea of the Sinestro Corps being the anti-GLC. Let's just hope that they don't mess it up.

6. X-Men need to stop just adding random mutants every chance they get and actually start organizing them. There are way too many groups within the X-Men...plus, Apocalypse should really be one of the (if not THE) biggest threats in the series.

7. Daredevil flat out needs some more villains that aren't jokes or from another series.

1. The JLA titles are getting better at that. But Superman/Batman now has him HVing Despero in one blast............

2. Joker. And Ra's Al Ghul. Wait...Ra's is dead. doh

3. The only think I am looking forward to is Hulk killing Tony and beating ass. I'm well aware that story and continuity wise, this will seriously suck monkey balls.

4. No. Absolutely not. Sentry needs to be retconned, die, lose his powers, etc. But GET RID OF HIM! He is the worst hero marvel has come up with since Paste-pot Pete.

5. Sinestro corps? REALLY?! Wow, that's a great idea. Co-sign that they won't screw it up.

6. QFMFT! (Quote for the mother****ing truth!). The Xmen titles have sucked for a long time writing wise. And Poccy has been assraped by the writers ever since X-Factor #68.

7. Given that DD is a fugitive, I think that's taken care of for the moment. Thunderbolts, SHIELD, other superheroes, etc. He's gonna be busy.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Given that DD is a fugitive, I think that's taken care of for the moment. Thunderbolts, SHIELD, other superheroes, etc. He's gonna be busy.

That sounds fun, but will the writers do that?

shrug I'll be surprised if they don't. I mean, he's busted out of the Raft, right? And he's anti-reg. I can see people like the Thunderbolts trying to nail him.

I just saw Reds sig.WTF did i become a mongoose?

I wish that, during M-Day, they would've cleaned it up a lot neater than what they did. Its still really sloppy. They should have just killed off some of the characters, brought some of them back, and in the aftermath, created some sort of definitive roster. I've never seen a group of heroes so disorganized as the X-Men are. They can't even stick to a normal "central team" anymore. How many times can we have "New New New New NEW X-Men!!!" before you just think "jeez...ANOTHER telepath?"

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
shrug I'll be surprised if they don't. I mean, he's busted out of the Raft, right? And he's anti-reg. I can see people like the Thunderbolts trying to nail him.

And I thought bullseye was enough, if what you say comes true, DD is in deep doodah

It has been cleaned up a bit. Although all the HoM bullshit didn't affect Astonishing in any way really which I was happy with. There are 3 set central teams in 3 main books, Mike Carey's adjectiveless which has some interesting team dynamics, the flagship Astonishing team which has as aforementioned remained unchanged for basically 2-3 years, and the Uncanny team which is kind of meh.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
4. No. Absolutely not. Sentry needs to be retconned, die, lose his powers, etc. But GET RID OF HIM! He is the worst hero marvel has come up with since Paste-pot Pete. QFT.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
shrug I'll be surprised if they don't. I mean, he's busted out of the Raft, right? And he's anti-reg. I can see people like the Thunderbolts trying to nail him.

Actually I read somewhere that Tony is basically gonna look the other way in terms of Matt as Daredevil. Apparently as long as Matt isn't aiding the other unregistered heroes and is confining himself to Hell's Kitchen Tony'll give him a pass. This hasn't been stated in story or anything, just a bit of buzz on the message boards that made sense to me

Aquaman's villains could probably use an update. Other than Black Manta he doesn't have a lot to work with.

Aquaman, definitely. I forgot about how odd his villains are.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Actually I read somewhere that Tony is basically gonna look the other way in terms of Matt as Daredevil. Apparently as long as Matt isn't aiding the other unregistered heroes and is confining himself to Hell's Kitchen Tony'll give him a pass. This hasn't been stated in story or anything, just a bit of buzz on the message boards that made sense to me

Why are you taking this away from me cry

Wonder Woman could use some new villains too probably. For being one of DC's big three she doesn't really have any well known villains.

Yeah, I totally agree. She's severely lacking in the villain department. Ares, Cheetah...and a bunch of people that should've been one-shots.

Dr. Psycho is the only WW villain that is even the least but interesting.

She should have a villain that gets a reputation for being good enough to kill off other heroes and villains. I always thought those guys were cool, cos even though I knew the main character wouldn't die, fighting a villain who has killed people who are a threat is always disturbingly entertaining

Circe is a good villain and powerful to boot.

Forgot about Circe.

How would you guys change Green Arrow's gallery?

More Onomatopoeia. More Merlyn. More super powered rogues. Less Riddler. I'm fed up with Brick. I want to see GA take down Merlyn with his new fighting skills.

Oh and I want to see GA fight more heroes because of his far left wing approach

Originally posted by NoFate007
Forgot about Circe.

How would you guys change Green Arrow's gallery?

Clones shock

Nah just kidding. More people with full on superpowers.

Haha. I think comics have had enough of the clone method over the years.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Actually, Flash's rogues always seemed kinda....B-list to me. But meh.


Zoom II, Abra Kadabra, Mirror Master II, Cobalt Blue, Doctor Alchemy, Gorilla Grodd, Savitar, The Thinker, Vandal Savage...all A-List as far as badassness and powers go. His rogue list is easily in top 3.

I don't think many people would consider those A-List villains, lol. Though I have to admit, Vandal Savage is awesome.

Any other ideas?