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What moments in comic history do you think never should have happened.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
What moments in comic history do you think never should have happened. death of superan
death of cap

1. Green Goblin being responsible for the clone saga.
2. The clone saga.

lol.

I know it's non-cannot but Wolverine beating Lobo was pretty aweful.

1. House of M
2. Civil War
3. Death of Genis-Vell(his crappy one i should say)
4. Return of Mar-Vell
5. Alternate Dimension Uncle ben
6. Return of Bucky
7. Return of DC Bucky aka Jason Todd
8. Return of Psylocke
9. Return of Collosus
10. Death of Superman
11. Death of Captain America
12. The other
13. World War Hulk
14. World War Hulk
15. World War Hulk
16. mary marvel beating Captain Atom

It goes on

Parrallax retcon
Norman Osborn sleeping with Gwen Stacy
Wolverine origins
Jason Todds returns

Superman 1 shotting Despero...

The Burning....'

Namor threw a table at Apoc.WTF would he need a table to own him....

For Tomorrow

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Namor threw a table at Apoc.WTF would he need a table to own him....
that should never be retconned.

Another: Sue Richards blowing a hole through exitar

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Superman 1 shotting Despero...

The Burning....'

Namor threw a table at Apoc.WTF would he need a table to own him....

i would have thrown a chair, doesn't take much to pwn Poccy

Maybe this should be changed to the top 5. That way we can see the comparisons of the top 5 worst moments in comics.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
What moments in comic history do you think never should have happened.

The rooftop rape fest in Nightwing #93

Every emotional flashback ever.

the lack of a retcon for the whole, 'cyclops only stayed because the phoenix made him' thing...

Lot of these aren't really retcons...

learn the definition!

Originally posted by jumpmann
Lot of these aren't really retcons...

learn the definition!

This seems to be a thread about things that should be retconned.

Twelve Saga, X-Factor #68, House of M, Sentry, CW, Loeb writing Darkseid getting tossed to the source wall, Martian completely losing his one weakness, Dr. Strange being beat up by ninjas , etc, etc, etc.

Wolverine being immortal. He just keeps on coming back. It deminishes his character. As long as he beats Lazaer in the afterlife, he can come back too life no matter what. (Wolverine #48). This is stupid and needs to be retconned.

Galactus losing to Thanos in Thanos the series, Darkseid's recent losses, House of M, Civil War, Thanos being killed by Drax, Living Tribunal being upstaged by Protege

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Galactus losing to Thanos in Thanos the series What comic is this?
Because I remember Thanos getting one-shotted...

Yes but in the end Thanos walked away with the upper hand

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes but in the end Thanos walked away with the upper hand By making two planets smash together?

Yep, that shouldn't have been enough to hurt Galactus

Originally posted by Validus
The rooftop rape fest in Nightwing #93

Dude that was awesome. If anything she should come back for more.

My retcons

1. Gwen Stacy sleeping with Norman
2. Norman having sex with Gwen Stacy
3. Green Goblin f*cking Spider-Man's girlfriend

Originally posted by marvelprince
Dude that was awesome. If anything she should come back for more.

My retcons

1. Gwen Stacy sleeping with Norman
2. Norman having sex with Gwen Stacy
3. Green Goblin f*cking Spider-Man's girlfriend Whats funny about that was she had nerve to think Peter would help raise both of the kids. I could imagine Peter making a statement like "This isn't Maury" to Gwen.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Dude that was awesome. If anything she should come back for more.

My retcons

1. Gwen Stacy sleeping with Norman
2. Norman having sex with Gwen Stacy
3. Green Goblin f*cking Spider-Man's girlfriend

Yeah...




...it should have been the Kingpin. dur

never should have had apoc start jobbing.
never should have had a omniverse a multiverse is enough
never should have had LT as powerful as he is now cause in his original format he was only ONE being no M-bodys

Originally posted by Big Sexy


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/ggrapingwen.png

313

Aargh. That story line pisses me off. From the most part I like JMS but some of the crap he does it just inexcusable.

1. Sins Past (with Gwen) should never have happened and in my mind doesn't exist.
2. The spider-totem. Peter getting his powers because of mystic design takes away from the mythos of the character imo. Should not have happened.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Aargh. That story line pisses me off. From the most part I like JMS but some of the crap he does it just inexcusable.

1. Sins Past (with Gwen) should never have happened and in my mind doesn't exist.
2. The spider-totem. Peter getting his powers because of mystic design takes away from the mythos of the character imo. Should not have happened. At least we know why things with Gwen wouldn't have worked out. Can't turn a hoe into a house wife.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/ggrapingwen.png

313

Originally posted by marvelprince
Aargh. That story line pisses me off. From the most part I like JMS but some of the crap he does it just inexcusable.

1. Sins Past (with Gwen) should never have happened and in my mind doesn't exist.
2. The spider-totem. Peter getting his powers because of mystic design takes away from the mythos of the character imo. Should not have happened. Didn't the girl try to sleep with Spiderman?

Originally posted by Big Sexy
At least we know why things with Gwen wouldn't have worked out. Can't turn a hoe into a house wife.

Ouch man Originally posted by Big Sexy
Didn't the girl try to sleep with Spiderman?

Yea. Another reason to boycot the storyline and sweep it under the rug

Originally posted by Big Sexy
At least we know why things with Gwen wouldn't have worked out. Can't turn a hoe into a house wife. Because hos don't act rite.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
What moments in comic history do you think never should have happened.

Every return of Guardian after Alpha Flight vol. 1 issue 12.

Heather Hudson switching from an EM-powered suit to the geothermal suit.

I must be the only guy who liked the clone saga

Originally posted by willRules
I must be the only guy who liked the clone saga I love and hate the clone saga. I like that they introduced Kaine who I like as a character but the saga kept dragging on and on to the point where I didn't care anymore. Also the inclusion of the Green Goblin at the end was bullShit.

Originally posted by Juntai
Because hos don't act rite. Damn straight, they need a slap.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/ggrapingwen.png

313
lol @ Norman's facial expression

If that doesn't scream "pedophile" I don't know what does.

Originally posted by Validus
lol @ Norman's facial expression

If that doesn't scream "pedophile" I don't know what does.
How? She was fair game...herbeyes

Originally posted by Skeets
How? She was fair game...herbeyes
Speaking in general here Biscuits. herbvin

I can look like that too..wanna see?ermmhappy

Originally posted by Skeets
I can look like that too..wanna see?ermmhappy
No, thats ok. baka

Originally posted by Validus
No, thats ok. baka
When they say "no" they really mean "yes"....vin

Originally posted by Skeets
When they say "no" they really mean "yes"....vin
That doesn't hold up in court. herbcry

Originally posted by Validus
That doesn't hold up in court. herbcry
Oh,we wont be going to no court.I can assure you of that...wife

Help me. fear

so, how about them retcons....

I'm an amalgam of Dr.Light,Green Goblin and Bruce Wayne.There's no escape....ermmhappy

Originally posted by Skeets
I'm an amalgam of Dr.Light,Green Goblin and Bruce Wayne.There's no escape....ermmhappy


I like that smilie....

Originally posted by Redatom65
I like that smilie....
I like your soft hands....ermmhappy

Originally posted by Skeets
I'm an amalgam of Dr.Light,Green Goblin and Bruce Wayne.There's no escape....ermmhappy
Guess not because I'm an amalgam of Sue Dibny, Gwen Stacy and Robin. herbcry

glad they make you smile.....Batdude tenderized them...dur

Originally posted by Validus
Guess not because I'm an amalgam of Sue Dibny, Gwen Stacy and Robin. herbcry
Your name is Heaven right?

Depends on who's asking.

Just a friend....

Because Validus requested.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Aargh. That story line pisses me off. From the most part I like JMS but some of the crap he does it just inexcusable.

1. Sins Past (with Gwen) should never have happened and in my mind doesn't exist.
2. The spider-totem. Peter getting his powers because of mystic design takes away from the mythos of the character imo. Should not have happened. The totem thing would have been ok if Morlun was just looking for those whose powers seemed to come from an animal. Could have included people like Wolverine, Scorpion, Rhino etc. It was basically stated as a fact that Spiderman got his powers from a higher source. I too didn't like that change.

Uh...so who was that chick having sex on the rooftop? Was Nightwing the guy getting raped, or something?

Ugh..something tells me I don't want to know about this one but...
hmm...a little behind on the GG evil deeds, but...did he rape Gwen, or did she go for him willingly?

Nothing in the books implied that he raped her.

Originally posted by Skeets
Nothing in the books implied that he raped her.

Please, DC loves raping their characters. ermhappy

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Please, DC loves raping their characters. ermhappy
Yeah,too bad I was responding to Superboy Prime's question.
Unless Gwen Stacey and Green Goblin are DC characters...herbnone

I thought she was raping him, then I thought...damn, that's awesome. Then, you ruined it.








***!

Originally posted by long pig
I thought she was raping him, then I thought...damn, that's awesome. Then, you ruined it.








***!
Wait, was she raping him?

I think she really was. Holy shit, that's awesome.

Nightwing always gets raped,by both Males and Females.
It's part of his character...herbeyes

Originally posted by long pig
Wait, was she raping him?

I think she really was. Holy shit, that's awesome. So true. Who is that there on the roof rocking his bod?

Originally posted by willRules
I must be the only guy who liked the clone saga

Nope I liked it too, I even liked the fact the Goblin was behind it all, I know in the way that was almost a quick cop out to get Peter back as Spidey but I don't see why it is hated so much. But nothing in that storyline really seemed to suck to me :/

And as for the Spider totem thing I don't see why that is so badly received the powers are only partially mystic they were still given to him through science tho he was chosen through mystical means. And as for the fact Morlun didn't go after Rhino Wolverine, Scorpion etc is the fact that they were all explained to be pretenders and Spidey was the only one "choosen". Personaly I liked that because it still seems like its debatable anyway.

Originally posted by Skeets
Yeah,too bad I was responding to Superboy Prime's question.

I was actually referring to the fact that DC loves having their characters raped...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/dr_rape.jpg

Originally posted by Skeets
I'm an amalgam of Dr.Light,Green Goblin and Bruce Wayne.There's no escape....ermmhappy

So, he wasn't being raped by the hot chick?

Originally posted by long pig
So, he wasn't being raped by the hot chick? Yes.

Doesn't Dr.Strange rape Wong all the time?

Who's the girl banging Nightwing?

Tarantula

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_%28DC_Comics%29

"Allowing Tarantula to kill Blockbuster caused Nightwing to go through what appears to have been essentially a nervous breakdown, and Tarantula took advantage of his near catatonic state to (in the words of the script) rape him."

Our World at War and most of Joe Casey's run on Superman

Rebirth, is a convoluted piece of crap, that needs to be replaced with Morison's All star series. There needs to be definitive explanation of Superman's powers that doesn't involve a half assed interpretation of Bryne and the Silver-age. NO more Solar power !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joseph Loebs entire run on Superman and Batman, with the exception of the two original stories (That where in fact pretty good).

The entire origin of Doomsday, and every other appearance after Hunter Prey. For example; 6ne minute hes getting beaten by Superman, the next he's punking Guardians ? I DON'T THINK So !!!!!!!!!!!!

The Emperor Joker storyline, that needs too have taken place in a different universe, and the Spectre doesn't get punked.

There are scans here somewhere of Nightwing getting raped. I don't see what the problem is. Hot hero chick trying to comfort him and he gets all "you took advantage of me". Forgive her just trying to help.

Originally posted by Sparkz
And as for the Spider totem thing I don't see why that is so badly received the powers are only partially mystic they were still given to him through science tho he was chosen through mystical means. And as for the fact Morlun didn't go after Rhino Wolverine, Scorpion etc is the fact that they were all explained to be pretenders and Spidey was the only one "choosen". Personaly I liked that because it still seems like its debatable anyway.

What I didnn't like was the fact that Peter was chosen by the spider totem. it takes from the uniqueness of the character in the fact that his powers are not an accident, but in fact by grand design.

Uh...so he was getting raped. Sweet. Ok raping ain't good, but I wouldn't mind getting raped by a hot chick on a rooftop.

Now about Gwen Stacy...she just went and had sex with Norman? WTF? *Pulls hair out* Beo-atch! I never thought I'd say this, but I'm glad she died. >=\

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Uh...so he was getting raped. Sweet. Ok raping ain't good, but I wouldn't mind getting raped by a hot chick on a rooftop.

Now about Gwen Stacy...she just went and had sex with Norman? WTF? *Pulls hair out* Beo-atch! I never thought I'd say this, but I'm glad she died. >=\ I was pissed when I read that. They had an affair and she got pregnant for Norman. She had twins who accelerate in age because of the goblin gas in their blood stream. That was a stupid decision on the writers part. Whats next, are we going to find out that Uncle Ben was a closet pedophile. They destroyed her reputation. At least now there won't be as many debates on who was better for Peter,"Mary Jane or Gwen."

Wow. That was totally unnecesary. Pregnant too, huh? It just keeps on getting worse, doesn't it? This revelation totally ruins the impact of her death to me. Innocence betrayed by Parker's secret dual-life? Nah. She was a beotch. Parker need not cry for her, she had it coming for getting involved with Norman in the first place.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Wow. That was totally unnecesary. Pregnant too, huh? It just keeps on getting worse, doesn't it? Also, According to "Sins past" she was planning on telling Peter and wanted him to help raise her kids. This is suppose to be the real reason the GG killed her. The problem is that it destroyed one of the great dynamics of Spider man, whether or not Peter would choose Mary Jane or Gwen if he had too. In the ep, the children are around the same age as Peter because of the defect in their growth. The girl actually tries to sleep with Peter even though shes basically a 9 yr old in a 26 yr olds body.

Originally posted by marvelprince
What I didnn't like was the fact that Peter was chosen by the spider totem. it takes from the uniqueness of the character in the fact that his powers are not an accident, but in fact by grand design.

i actually enjoyed that part of the story, considering it gave some depth to the background personality which made spider-man such an ideal superhero. the rest of it, with the gatekeeper and the great big spider who wanted to eat ezekiel or peter or whatever he wanted to do, i could've done without.

I agree it was an interesting alternative to the Science nerd principles Peter had clung to

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Uh...so he was getting raped. Sweet. Ok raping ain't good, but I wouldn't mind getting raped by a hot chick on a rooftop.
Except if you don't mind, it's not rape. herbeyes

Originally posted by Redatom65

6. Return of Bucky
9. Return of Collosus


I think you're the only one who didn't like the return of Colossus

And as for Bucky's return, if Brubaker didn't do it, then it would have been garbage, but because he did, its awesome

Originally posted by Validus
Except if you don't mind, it's not rape. herbeyes

Batman disagrees...























.....































http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/papaspank.png

Originally posted by Grimm22
I think you're the only one who didn't like the return of Colossus

And as for Bucky's return, if Brubaker didn't do it, then it would have been garbage, but because he did, its awesome


I love both characters, it's just I hate The Revolving Door of Death that is Marvel. it's way more so than DC. I love Colossus, and Bucky's Return was well writtan, it's just annoying, ya know?

Any event that causes a change only to be retconned immediately afterwards. "This will change the course of the whole comic book industry for a full FOUR ISSUES!!!" lol

Originally posted by NoFate007
Any event that causes a change only to be retconned immediately afterwards. "This will change the course of the whole comic book industry for a full FOUR ISSUES!!!" lol
It's even worse when you know without a shadow of doubt it's going to be retconned. Death of Superman comes to mind. Death of Cap too.

Difference is, retconed or not, Death of Superman was actually really well done. As was the imposters and his subsequent resurrection.

Whereas, Cap's death was contrived and we're not sure how it's going to turn out. (Though a retcon is likely. I think it's an LMD......)

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Difference is, retconed or not, Death of Superman was actually really well done. As was the imposters and his subsequent resurrection.

Whereas, Cap's death was contrived and we're not sure how it's going to turn out. (Though a retcon is likely. I think it's an LMD......)

I'm a big Superman fan, and I hated the death of Superman. Doomsday, should never have beaten the entire league, let alone Superman. 'Nuff Said.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Difference is, retconed or not, Death of Superman was actually really well done. As was the imposters and his subsequent resurrection.

Whereas, Cap's death was contrived and we're not sure how it's going to turn out. (Though a retcon is likely. I think it's an LMD......)


I was about to say the same thing but the other way around

Superman being physically beaten to death was a good idea. It's not something your average person would ever expect to see.

Originally posted by Validus
Superman being physically beaten to death was a good idea. It's not something your average person would ever expect to see.

and what, per-say, would the average person expect to see It was all bloody half assed. Doomsday was such a plot tool

Originally posted by Redatom65
and what, per-say, would the average person expect to see
Superman not being physically overpowered? The average joe who dislikes Superman usually cites the fact that he's "invincible" as a reason for his/her dislike. Now comic geeks like us can name dozens of characters who can beat Supes but I know a lot of people who think he's the end all, be all superhero so seeing him getting physically manhandled and subsequently killed was a sight to see.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Difference is, retconed or not, Death of Superman was actually really well done. As was the imposters and his subsequent resurrection.

Whereas, Cap's death was contrived and we're not sure how it's going to turn out. (Though a retcon is likely. I think it's an LMD......)

Ha you talk rubbish.

Cap's death pwned Superman's death, why? 'cause Brubaker's hat owns

I actually really liked the Death of Superman...but I think the death of Cap is just such a $ deal with no other point that its just kind of stupid.

Originally posted by NoFate007
I actually really liked the Death of Superman...but I think the death of Cap is just such a $ deal with no other point that its just kind of stupid.

Yeah... , 'cause of course DC makes comic books with the sole purpose of good writing and not making profits.

Superman's death aswell as Captain America's death were both money-driven, it just so happens that Cap's was better.

Originally posted by NoFate007
I actually really liked the Death of Superman...but I think the death of Cap is just such a $ deal with no other point that its just kind of stupid. Not really. To me Caps death is symbolic of the darker times ahead.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Not really. To me Caps death is symbolic of the darker times ahead.

But Supes death is symbolic of Superman being physically beaten to death.






dur

Ha. "Darker times ahead" Because there wasn't just a Civil War. Just now. Right before.

In any case, I'm sure Cap's death was part symbology(for the writers) and part financial power-play(for the publishers). I wouldn't say that it's supposed to be setting the mood for the future sort of symbology, I'd vote for political critique or a reflection of real-life politics, since writers have already fessed-up that parts of Civil War are that in entirety. Which is useless to me, who goes to comic books to get entertained and use my imagination, not ponder real-world politics. But whatever.

To say that Superman's death wasn't a bit of both is pretty ignorant, especially because Superman means about a thousand times more to actual people than Captain America.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Yeah... , 'cause of course DC makes comic books with the sole purpose of good writing and not making profits.

and yet their books have a consistently higher standard of writing...



are you serious? superman's was far more poignant and worthwhile... he saved metropolis and probably the world from doomsday... cap... cap just got shot...

Originally posted by pr1983
and yet their books have a consistently higher standard of writing...

Thats debatable.

Originally posted by pr1983
are you serious? superman's was far more poignant and worthwhile... he saved metropolis and probably the world from doomsday... cap... cap just got shot...

Supes death was the classic hero death, going out fighting. Cap's death was more realistic. Tried as a criminal and gunned down. Both are two completely different things so I don't see how you can compare it like that

Originally posted by marvelprince
Thats debatable.

to be honest (and maybe a bit mean, sorry), its not imo... if i pick up, say, the 10 best books each company has to offer, i'm pretty sure that the DC books are going to have the majority over marvel...



In superman's world his death was just as realistic...



i was responding to the earlier post... and to be honest, i sort of can... marvel didn't kill him during civil war because he'd have become a martyr, so they waited until it was over to try and keep the momentum going... at least thats how i see it...

sorry if my post seemed... snotty i guess is the word...

Originally posted by pr1983
to be honest (and maybe a bit mean, sorry), its not imo... if i pick up, say, the 10 best books each company has to offer, i'm pretty sure that the DC books are going to have the majority over marvel...

As a guy who reads both I have to disagree. Right now I can name about twice as much Marvel books that I'd rather be reading than DC.


Originally posted by pr1983
In superman's world his death was just as realistic...

Imo realism doesn't read as a cliche. His death was just that.

Originally posted by pr1983
i was responding to the earlier post... and to be honest, i sort of can... marvel didn't kill him during civil war because he'd have become a martyr, so they waited until it was over to try and keep the momentum going... at least thats how i see it...

I agree about the martyr thing but if thats the route they took then I would have cried cliche. Honestly, after the war with Cap already defeated who saw it coming?

Originally posted by pr1983
sorry if my post seemed... snotty i guess is the word...

Np.

Originally posted by marvelprince
As a guy who reads both I have to disagree. Right now I can name about twice as much Marvel books that I'd rather be reading than DC.

i actually read both too... my one must-have book every month is astonishing x-men (my favourite character being cyclops, and by favourite i mean all companies), i actually like more marvel characters than i do DC ones too... i just find myself enjoying DC books more...



Wasn't for me... as validus said, Superman being killed by brute force? better (and with more impact) than magic or kryptonite... and the battle outside the daily planet was well done imo...



but thats the point, nobody saw it coming because nobody cared enough to try... at least for me, i thought it was a huge cop-out to be honest...

i didn't want cap to die, but i don't think anyone is that worried over whether he'll be back or not...

even if quesada doesnt want to bring steve back, he'll be forced to eventually sales-wise... civil war did alot for cap as a character, and they do what, make him pussy out and surrender and then they kill him?

i really think they weren't looking at the big picture to be honest...

Originally posted by pr1983
i actually read both too... my one must-have book every month is astonishing x-men (my favourite character being cyclops, and by favourite i mean all companies), i actually like more marvel characters than i do DC ones too... i just find myself enjoying DC books more...

Personal taste I guess. Only books from DC I really can say that I look forward too are JLA, JSA, All new Atom and Green Arrow. I read many other but these are my must haves.

Originally posted by pr1983
Wasn't for me... as validus said, Superman being killed by brute force? better (and with more impact) than magic or kryptonite... and the battle outside the daily planet was well done imo...

For me it was. Any other way would have been a cop out and this way established Doomsday as a badass. I never said it wasn't well done, just done before.

Originally posted by pr1983
but thats the point, nobody saw it coming because nobody cared enough to try... at least for me, i thought it was a huge cop-out to be honest...

Considering how many people were predictiing his death I have to disagree. People just didn't expect it to happen post-CW.

Originally posted by pr1983
i didn't want cap to die, but i don't think anyone is that worried over whether he'll be back or not...

Of course not. May not be soon but we all know he will eventually. Same thing when Supes died.

Originally posted by pr1983
even if quesada doesnt want to bring steve back, he'll be forced to eventually sales-wise... civil war did alot for cap as a character, and they do what, make him pussy out and surrender and then they kill him?

Don't know about forced, but Steve will return.

Originally posted by pr1983
i really think they weren't looking at the big picture to be honest...

Actually considering Brubaker said he was planning this storyline from for a while, apparently even before CW and he just fit it into the story. And while sales were good, Cap's death shot sales up and I'm sure the next few issues will have great numbers.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Personal taste I guess. Only books from DC I really can say that I look forward too are JLA, JSA, All new Atom and Green Arrow. I read many other but these are my must haves.

mine is pretty much all the superman stuff (bar confidential), green lantern, jla, jsa, flash (because of the slim hope that wally will return), i think thats it for dc...

marvel, i was disappointed by a lot of civil war, new avengers, i just don't like the lineup (pre or post CW), annihilation as good and i'll be picking up the tpb's as im a huge surfer fan...



maybe, but i don't think there was much weight behind other deaths and superman's (up to that point)



but by that time, what point was there in killing him?



if his replacement doesn't sell well, i think they'll have to...



but why not, say, have cap go on the run after civil war... you'd get great sales for quite a while... of course that would have meant changing the (frankly poor imo) ending to civil war...

Originally posted by pr1983
mine is pretty much all the superman stuff (bar confidential), green lantern, jla, jsa, flash (because of the slim hope that wally will return), i think thats it for dc...

I picked up Flash for a while for the hope that Bart would be a fun Flash, like how Flash was on JLU. Needless to say I was dissapointed.

Originally posted by pr1983
marvel, i was disappointed by a lot of civil war, new avengers, i just don't like the lineup (pre or post CW), annihilation as good and i'll be picking up the tpb's as im a huge surfer fan...

I liked CW, but there a lot of the books I buy aren't too steeped in CW. Daredevil, Iron Fist, Moon Knight and Iron Fist only touch on CW and then I love Thunderbolts, New and Mighty Avengers which deal pretty heavily in the CW stuff.

Originally posted by pr1983
maybe, but i don't think there was much weight behind other deaths and superman's (up to that point)

True

Originally posted by pr1983
but by that time, what point was there in killing him?

They had kind of painted themselves into a corner. He had surrendered and only things left to do were to put him in jail. If they have him escape he's have to be on the run and him getting redemption wouldn't sit well with me (as I don't think he would accept anything less than the Initiative dismantled). Brubaker already had just told a story of hero in prison so he probably didn't want to go that route again. Other than let him stifle in jail they did sonething with the character that got lots of attention.

Originally posted by pr1983
if his replacement doesn't sell well, i think they'll have to...

Depends who the replacement is imo.

Originally posted by pr1983
but why not, say, have cap go on the run after civil war... you'd get great sales for quite a while... of course that would have meant changing the (frankly poor imo) ending to civil war...

Because Cap felt he was wrong and so felt he had to be punished. He may not feel that his stance (anti-registration) was wrong, but he went about it the wrong way and knows he had a price to pay.

Originally posted by marvelprince
I picked up Flash for a while for the hope that Bart would be a fun Flash, like how Flash was on JLU. Needless to say I was dissapointed.

i don't like jlu flash...



i like daredevil, haven't picked it up recently though... i don't like the line up of either avengers team, so i tend not to buy em... i miss the classic avengers team to be honest...



which just annoys the hell out of me to be honest...



i really don't think it does, because no matter who it is, it won't be steve... to me, steve is the only captain america... well, him and washington...



i actually think cap was an idiot to come to that conclusion... it was stark who decided to hunt down heroes and lock them up, cap was more the reactionary than anything imo... yes there was collateral damage, but it happened imo from trying to force people who've saved the world a dozen times over to sign some stupid form and give up their identities...

Spider-man's stingers...

Originally posted by pr1983
i don't like jlu flash...

He's hilarious.

Originally posted by pr1983
i like daredevil, haven't picked it up recently though... i don't like the line up of either avengers team, so i tend not to buy em... i miss the classic avengers team to be honest...

Thats cool. I've always liked the Avengers, but the new Avengers where pretty much my dream team. Mighty Avengers is closer to the old Avengers "feel" and I'm liking Ares. New is still my fav but I'm enjoying the hell out of both Avengers titles.

Originally posted by pr1983
which just annoys the hell out of me to be honest...

I can see how but there were really only a few places they could move with Cap after CW.

Originally posted by pr1983
i really don't think it does, because no matter who it is, it won't be steve... to me, steve is the only captain america... well, him and washington...

I agree. Cap will ALWAYS be Steve, but that doesn't mean that his replacement won't sell. Winter Soldier has been garnering a lot of interest on his own.

Originally posted by pr1983
i actually think cap was an idiot to come to that conclusion... it was stark who decided to hunt down heroes and lock them up, cap was more the reactionary than anything imo... yes there was collateral damage, but it happened imo from trying to force people who've saved the world a dozen times over to sign some stupid form and give up their identities...

I think it was the only logical conclusion. Sure Maria came down on him hard, but he could have used that and gone to Washington to speak out against it. Imagine how bad SHIELD would have looked forcing Cap to join before the SHRA is even passed. At that point he still had a lot of pull with the public so he could have accomplished something. He just had a knee jerk reaction and along the way he just wanted to beat Tony. And if you think Cap is one to brush off collateral damage you don't really know Cap. Once he realized he was causing more harm than good there was no doubt he would stop and surrender.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Spider-man's stingers...

The sooner these are brushed under the rug the better

Originally posted by Mobra
Ha. "Darker times ahead" Because there wasn't just a Civil War. Just now. Right before.

In any case, I'm sure Cap's death was part symbology(for the writers) and part financial power-play(for the publishers). I wouldn't say that it's supposed to be setting the mood for the future sort of symbology, I'd vote for political critique or a reflection of real-life politics, since writers have already fessed-up that parts of Civil War are that in entirety. Which is useless to me, who goes to comic books to get entertained and use my imagination, not ponder real-world politics. But whatever.

To say that Superman's death wasn't a bit of both is pretty ignorant, especially because Superman means about a thousand times more to actual people than Captain America. Yes but its a huge change. Their is no "Doctor Strange reverses time" change. This is going to take a while to be resolved. Its not your typical "Lets save the world book anymore". People like Spiderman have been outed, their really is no going back to the way things were at this point. Many of the risks marvel has taken with civil war are pretty big and I gotta say its good to read something different than your typical "Heroes team up to stop big threat book" that (even though I liked both) is basically all that WW3 and Infinite Crisis were.