Havamal - is heathenism practical?

These are verses from the poem Havamal. An important poem in the Heathen religon. This poem is Odin talking about life and morality.

A guest should be courteous
When he comes to the table
And sit in wary silence,
His ears attentive,
his eyes alert:
So he protects himself,

The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
While he sits by his hearth at home.
Quickly finds when questioned by others .
That he knows nothing at all.

A small hut of one' s own is better,
A man is his master at home:
A couple of goats and a corded roof
Still are better than begging.

A man should be loyal through life to friends,
And return gift for gift,
Laugh when they laugh,
but with lies repay
A false foe who lies.

Ok im just trying to start up a discussion. Looking at these verses do you think that Heathenism is a practical religon? Do you think that rules in religon should be more like this were they can actually be applied to the real world and be of benefit?

Another food for thought is this verse.

but with lies repay
A false foe who lies.

Heathenism seems very natural in the sense that its tells you to be nice to those who are nice to you but be harsh to those who are harsh. In other relgions they may tell you to be more merciful but not in heathenism. There is the concept of forgiveness in heathenism but in general people tend to trade hostility with hostility.

Anyway discuss.

Ancient religion, excluding Judaism, is fascinating because it delt with the here and now, instead of focusing on the unproven, irrelevant afterlife.

Why would Heathenism be considered unpractical compared to any other religion?

Originally posted by Alfheim
These are verses from the poem Havamal. An important poem in the Heathen religon. This poem is Odin talking about life and morality.

[B]A guest should be courteous
When he comes to the table
And sit in wary silence,
His ears attentive,
his eyes alert:
So he protects himself,

The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
While he sits by his hearth at home.
Quickly finds when questioned by others .
That he knows nothing at all.

A small hut of one' s own is better,
A man is his master at home:
A couple of goats and a corded roof
Still are better than begging.

A man should be loyal through life to friends,
And return gift for gift,
Laugh when they laugh,
but with lies repay
A false foe who lies.

Ok im just trying to start up a discussion. Looking at these verses do you think that Heathenism is a practical religon? Do you think that rules in religon should be more like this were they can actually be applied to the real world and be of benefit?

Another food for thought is this verse.

but with lies repay
A false foe who lies.

Heathenism seems very natural in the sense that its tells you to be nice to those who are nice to you but be harsh to those who are harsh. In other relgions they may tell you to be more merciful but not in heathenism. There is the concept of forgiveness in heathenism but in general people tend to trade hostility with hostility.

Anyway discuss. [/B]

Maybe.

Abrahamic religions took all the best most interesting things out of the Many god religions.
Gods in other cultures were jealous, non-perfect, interfering, and very human like. They were not disguised as merciful and loving, since they warent so.

Gods these days are uptight, more spoilt, infinantly more jealous and ruthless than Greek or Egyptian Gods put together.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Abrahamic religions took all the best most interesting things out of the Many god religions.
Gods in other cultures were jealous, non-perfect, interfering, and very human like. They were not disguised as merciful and loving, since they warent so.

Maybe, but the try genius of Abrehamic religions is they shifted focus from the world around us to an afterlife that we all of a sudden needed to be concerned about.

Better to give merit to this life than a proposed afterlife.

Originally posted by Alliance
Ancient religion, excluding Judaism, is fascinating because it delt with the here and now, instead of focusing on the unproven, irrelevant afterlife.

Why would Heathenism be considered unpractical compared to any other religion?

Well im just trying to make discussion. In all fairness I dont think that heathenism is better than any other religon, but in terms of practicality its more useful than Abrahamic faiths IMO. Eventhough heathens belive in the afterlife and gods, heathenism is very practical for living.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Not sure for today, how would diplmacy fit with ''fight fire with fire'' type thing.

Maybe.

Well in all fairness fight fire with fire is an oversimplification of heathenism. Diplomacy and strategy is part of heathenism as well. For example the gods consist of different races and sometimes they make pacts with people they hate. You might have heard the story where Thor had to dress up as a women in order to get his hammer back. That story was supposed to illustrate thats sometimes you have to do something humiliating to get what you want.

The main points is that pacifism and turning the other cheek is not part of Heathenism. You dont love you're enemies.

Originally posted by Alliance

Gods in other cultures were jealous, non-perfect, interfering, and very human like. They were not disguised as merciful and loving, since they warent so.

Gods these days are uptight, more spoilt, infinantly more jealous and ruthless than Greek or Egyptian Gods put together.

In all fairness the Norse gods are pretty decent. In general they are alot like a family of superheroes where they get together to protect themselves and mankind as opposed to the Greek gods were they are constantly stabbing each other and mankind in the back. Odin and Loki are exceptions though.

Unfortunatley Odin is seen sometimes as a manipulative scheming b***** because unfortuantely alot of his followers were into raping and pillaging, but as you can see from the poem above it illustrates the way Odin was supposed to be and not all his followers were violent.

I haven't heard that, but thats hilarious. Everyone is after Thor's hammer.

I thought for some reason that Thor is equivalent to Zeus. But hes more equivelant to Appolo, and Odin is equivelant to Zeus.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well im just trying to make discussion. In all fairness I dont think that heathenism is better than any other religon, but in terms of practicality its more useful than Abrahamic faiths IMO. Eventhough heathens belive in the afterlife and gods, heathenism is very practical for living.

How do you define useful?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I haven't heard that, but thats hilarious. Everyone is after Thor's hammer.

Yeah because if the Gods dont have it they'll die because the giants will destroy them. The giants are always after Freyja too...

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

I thought for some reason that Thor is equivalent to Zeus.

Thats probably because of Thunder and lightning. Hell I think the Romans actually called Thor Jupiter once. Furthermore Thor was king of the gods at one stage, but as far as I know this was in the Germanic era before they migrated to Scandinvia.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

But hes more equivelant to Appolo,

No way man. Apollo is the god of the sun right? Thor does rules over the four elements and fire but the god Freyr has been associated with rulling over the sun.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

and Odin is equivelant to Zeus.

Only in the sense that he is the ruler of the gods. Odin could also be compared to Hades.

Originally posted by Alliance
How do you define useful?

Helps make your life easier. *shrug*

Originally posted by Alfheim
Helps make your life easier. *shrug*

Animism and Heathenism are much more useful in the real world. However, for anything that makes a modern religion (the hierarchy, the bureaucracy, the money, the power) Heathenism would be rather useless.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah because if the Gods dont have it they'll die because the giants will destroy them. The giants are always after Freyja too...

Thats probably because of Thunder and lightning. Hell I think the Romans actually called Thor Jupiter once. Furthermore Thor was king of the gods at one stage, but as far as I know this was in the Germanic era before they migrated to Scandinvia.

No way man. Apollo is the god of the sun right? Thor does rules over the four elements and fire but the god Freyr has been associated with rulling over the sun.

Only in the sense that he is the ruler of the gods. Odin could also be compared to Hades.

Helps make your life easier. *shrug*

Hades is the ruler of underworld, though, and Zeus is the king of other Gods, as I recall?
I always asociated Loki with ''evilish'' gods.

Originally posted by Alliance
However, for anything that makes a modern religion (the hierarchy, the bureaucracy, the money, the power) Heathenism would be rather useless.

How? Are you making sweeping generalisations again? Well I know Thor was the patron god of law, and eventhough things were less complicated in those times norse law was still complicated enough.

Originally posted by Alfheim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_laws

The lawspeaker presided the Things, worked as a judge and formulated the laws that had been decided by the people. The lawspeaker was obliged to memorize the law and to recite it at the Thing. He was also responsible for the administration at the thing and for the execution of the decisions, and it was his duty to safeguard the rights and liberties of the people and to speak in their behalf to the king or his representative.

Does that sound like somebody who doesnt have to use his brains alot? Not only does he have to memorise vast amounts of information he has to apply the law correctly, and as you can imagine there were lots of different situations, marriage, inheritance, trading, land, housing etc. Furthermore he was also in charge of administration and that would involve alot of stuff.

Yeah because if the Gods dont have it they'll die because the giants will destroy them. The giants are always after Freyja too...

Originally posted by Alfheim
How? Are you making sweeping generalisations again? Well I know Thor was the patron god of law, and eventhough things were less complicated in those times norse law was still complicated enough.

Are you telling me that anceint conceptualizations of law and civil structure are comparable to modern ones?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well she slept with 4 dwarfs and got a beautiful Amber necklace out of the deal, sooo she does have some standards..

Thats missing the point. Freyja is a fertility godess, the dwarves represent the earth. The four dwarves probably represent the cardinal points. Therefore the story is about fertility.

In order to prosperous you must combine the earth with something, water, seeds etc. Earth doesnt even have to be taken in a literal sense.

Originally posted by Alliance
Are you telling me that anceint conceptualizations of law and civil structure are comparable to modern ones?

I could respond to this, but am I going to be wasting my time?

Originally posted by Alfheim
I could respond to this, but am I going to be wasting my time?

Thats your call. I find it quite a jump. Is this Norse law or Norse religious law?

Originally posted by Alliance
Thats your call. I find it quite a jump. Is this Norse law or Norse religious law?

Well law was part of their religon, they didnt really seperate things. They mixed their religon with everything.

Well this is what I was going to say.

1. Obvoulsy law is more comlipacted but I dont think humans have changed that much. Anglo-Saxons are part of heathenism and have had a big influence on english law. According to Magnus Magnusson the word "law" comes from Old Norse. Therefore some Norse laws can be applied and modified today, evolving isnt against Heathenism you know.

2. The gods are seen as role-models and are supposed to inspire us. This inspiration can be applied to anything. For example if a religon teaches you compassion, when you are making laws you will keep that in mind.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well she slept with 4 dwarfs and got a beautiful Amber necklace out of the deal, sooo she does have some standards..

She's a gold-digger.

lol Odin and his crows.

Originally posted by Jim Reaper
She's a gold-digger.

Yeah thanx.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
lol Odin and his crows.

Huh? His crows are supposed to represent thought and memory, they represent what may happen during meditation.