Who is the most powerful Sith

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MasterAshenVor
I know this post has probibally been made but that SEARCH button doesent do much for me so here we go...




Note. These Sith at one time or another served no other master

Gideon
Sidious.

Galan007
Is Exar near the top?

Gideon
Originally posted by Galan007
Is Exar near the top?

Definately.

Count Makashi
Sidious.

Gideon
Sidious is the most powerful and the greatest. Nihilus, Revan, Exar, Bane, Dooku, Ragnos, and Kun are all up there, too.

Edit: Forgot about Dooku. He'd be up there.

Apollo Cloud
My opinion generally changes a lot, but currently this is how I see it:

1. Darth Sion.
2. Darth Nihilus.
3. Darth Revan.
4. Darth Malak.
5. Darth Bane.
6. Darth Sidious.
7. Exar Kun.
8. Ajunta Pall.
9. Marka Ragnos.
10. Freedon Nadd.

Gideon
Yeah, and I don't see why Sion is at the top. He's immortal, and that's pretty tight and all, but the Exile owned him. He just happened to get back up to get owned again. The point is, his skill doesn't rival the likes of the strongest Sith. His immortality might make him a potent rival, but that's pretty much it. Then, of course, put him in a room with someone like Kreia or Palpatine, and he's screwed.

Smooth Menace
Sidious is my vote.

Gideon
Originally posted by Smooth Menace
Sidious is my vote.

And it is the correct vote.

Count Makashi
I think pretty much everyone will say Sidious(with few exceptions), as he was canonically confirmed the strongest ever.

Gideon
Originally posted by Count Makashi
I think pretty much everyone will say Sidious(with few exceptions), as he was canonically confirmed the strongest ever.

There are a bunch of quotes concerning Sidious's power.

Tangible God
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
My opinion generally changes a lot, but currently this is how I see it:

1. Darth Sion.
2. Darth Nihilus.
3. Darth Revan.
4. Darth Malak.
5. Darth Bane.
6. Darth Sidious.
7. Exar Kun.
8. Ajunta Pall.
9. Marka Ragnos.
10. Freedon Nadd. I'm not gonna start being an ass in response to you like some:

Sion's near immortal, but one wee drain from Nihilus and he falls apart.

And in terms of sheer power, Sidious is at the top.

Count Makashi
Yea, but wasn't he confirmed by GL, the strongest Sith ever and i think i remember someone said that in visual directory is stated same thing.
I know you said also Sidious, just are there some quotes that disprove this?

Gideon
Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yea, but wasn't he confirmed by GL, the strongest Sith ever and i think i remember someone said that in visual directory is stated same thing.
I know you said also Sidious, just are there some quotes that disprove this?

No. I said that there is basically more than one quote about Palpatine's power that supports it.

LORDSIDIOUS01
Originally posted by Tangible God
I'm not gonna start being an ass in response to you like some:

Sion's near immortal, but one wee drain from Nihilus and he falls apart.

And in terms of sheer power, Sidious is at the top.

Co-signed

vader11
Originally posted by Gideon
Sidious.

Gideon
Who the hell voted for Darth Krayt? There's a better argument for REX's ass being the most powerful Sith Lord than Krayt.

vader11
Because there are many fanboys around.

Nikkolas

Blue_Hefner
Barth Bane

Gideon
Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Barth Bane

Convincing. ^_^

Darth Sexy
haha, very convincing indeed

zephiel7
I'm pretty sure my penis is a better Sith Lord than Krayt.

The correct answer is Sidious. By DE, he is the best ever.

Originally posted by Gideon
Convincing. ^_^

LoL

Gideon
Better? Maybe. Smaller? Definately. no expression



Correct.

Nikkolas
Okay...My Top 5.

1. Darth Sidious - Everyone knows this by now... Statements and feats put him here.

2. Darth Nihilus - Capable of using Force Tk on a level where he could pull a fleet out of a gravity well...fed on planets...somehow made his wreck of a flagship spaceworthy with his power.

3. Darth Bane/Exar Kun - Bane gets this spot because I heard he moved a moon or something... if he didn't, then I'll demote him. Kun drained the Massassi, studied from the Ancient Sith and displayed high powers in The Force and lightsaber combat.

4. Bane/Kun

5. If it wasn't for their use of augmentation items, someone like Sadow could go here... But he apparently needed amulets to achieve feats like the mass illusions. So I dunno who to give it to. These people aren't performing Force Storms or eating planets or that kinda stuff... We have someone like Dooku who could bring people to their knees with a finger. Traya who could drain the life from 3 Jedi Masters (I found out why this was on wookie. She was originally supposed to drain them, taunt them, then kill them with Force Crush). So...I'll think about it.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Okay...My Top 5.

1. Darth Sidious - Everyone knows this by now... Statements and feats put him here.

2. Darth Nihilus - Capable of using Force Tk on a level where he could pull a fleet out of a gravity well...fed on planets...somehow made his wreck of a flagship spaceworthy with his power.

3. Darth Bane/Exar Kun - Bane gets this spot because I heard he moved a moon or something... if he didn't, then I'll demote him. Kun drained the Massassi, studied from the Ancient Sith and displayed high powers in The Force and lightsaber combat.

4. Bane/Kun

5. If it wasn't for their use of augmentation items, someone like Sadow could go here... But he apparently needed amulets to achieve feats like the mass illusions. So I dunno who to give it to. These people aren't performing Force Storms or eating planets or that kinda stuff... We have someone like Dooku who could bring people to their knees with a finger. Traya who could drain the life from 3 Jedi Masters (I found out why this was on wookie. She was originally supposed to drain them, taunt them, then kill them with Force Crush). So...I'll think about it.

Nihilus Fanboy. Your theories of "Nihilus is teh uber" have been debunked. And I don't see why Kun and Bane are up there while Revan, who had at the very least, as much knowledge as Kun, is not.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nihilus Fanboy.

Hahahaha, so you go on about something on these forums and your a instant fanboy of something...

Nikkolas
I never played KOTOR. I also detest it for its horrid plotholes.

I simply go by what I read and see. And what I read and see definitely puts Nihilus above Kun or Bane or any of them.



Unless yu are somehow the official unquestioned authority on canon, I don't think so. My "theories" are nothing more than using statements from the game.

Statement 1- He can drain planets.
Statement 2- He can move a fleet of ships from a gravity well.

There's no theorizing. There's just using canon and facts.



Revan isn't a Sith any more. I don't count him.

Kadesh
id put vader below kun sidious and revan, Sidious ftw

Apollo Cloud
Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, and I don't see why Sion is at the top.

The reason I put him on top is because in pure combat, he's invincible. Whether he can be convinced to die or not has no relation on his combat prowess. I basically base these lists on who would be more capable at winning in these versus threads, based purely on a combat standpoint, and that's why Sion's #1.



Don't you mean 'invincible?'



So what? The Exile's damn powerful. It's also very likely that he was restrained during the fight because of the fact that the Traya loved The Exile more than she had ever loved him, and couldn't take it, and was therefor at quite a low, in terms of his moral.



We don't know that, you're just assuming. Really, he more than proved that he was skilled when he took off Traya's hand before she could even react. Traya's got some pretty insane precognition levels, some of the highest in the entire SW mythologies that we've thus far seen, so it would have required some pretty good speed and skill to slice off her hand before she could respond to it.



The fact that he can't be killed through combat makes him much more than a potent rival Gideon, it pretty much makes him unstoppable.



Dude, Sion's not simply going to lose the will to live to just any good manipulator or anybody with some sort of link to Traya, what you're essentially arguing is actually pretty ridiculous. It would be like saying that Sidious would always overpower Yoda with a blast of lightning, or that Mace would always disarm Sidious with a kick, in any fight, simply because it happened once. Sion losing his will is dependant on hundreds of factors that were entirely unique to the very plotline in KotOR 2. Take those factors away (which is what happens in these versus threads, which these lists are based off of, due to the lack of a story element), and the end result is not going to repeat itself. Sion realistically should be #1.


Anyways I think I'm gonna change my list a bit, I completely forgot about Jacen (who I now consider a sith) and the order's a bit wrong:

1. Darth Sion.
2. Darth Nihilus.
3. Darth Malak.
4. Darth Revan.
5. Jacen Solo.
6. Darth Sidious.
7. Darth Bane.
8. Ajunta Pall.
9. Exar Kun.
10. Marka Ragnos.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
I never played KOTOR. I also detest it for its horrid plotholes.

I simply go by what I read and see. And what I read and see definitely puts Nihilus above Kun or Bane or any of them.
So you have no argument, nor any basis for an argument you might have. GOtcha. Next time before sticking your foot in your mouth, I suggest you read POD and play KOTOR. Arguing out of ignorance is as bad as it gets.




And unfortunately for you, you don't have any arguments, just statements from the game as your canon soures. However an X amount of statements from games are clearly made from fallible 3rd party characters. Get that through your thick skull.


I guess knowing what canon is and isn't is a foreign concept to you.




Good for you, nobody cares. He was a sith therefore he could be counted as a sith.

jollyjim311
Two questions, Allfg:

Didn't Traya let Sion cut off her hand to show the Exile the bond between Traya and the Exile?
Traya's precog doesn't come close to Sidious', unless you're referring to her comment about the Mandalorians, in which case she was, regrettably, wrong. And predicting that at some point a Jedi would kill a Mandalorian isn't that much of a prediction.

Nikkolas
Was Bane moving fleets with TK or draining planets in PoD?

I do have an argument. Facts. And it seems you have a stick up your ass.



Doesn't matter. They remain canon and useable as long as they aren't contradicted.



I care.

I don't count people who aren't Sith anymore in my Sith Hierarchy.

If you have a problem with it, good for you. It's my list and I'll put on it whoever I please.

Apollo Cloud
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Two questions, Allfg:

Didn't Traya let Sion cut off her hand to show the Exile the bond between Traya and the Exile?

It's not stated in the game or anything, and really, it's highly unlikely, given that Traya leaving herself open to Sion like that is risking her life, I mean she can't have guaranteed that he'd attack and slice off her hand and not her head or anything. It's not the type or risk she'd take, she wasn't reckless, and given that she could have simply used many more opportunities to show The Exile that a bond existed between them that actually wouldn't have been so risky, unless there's direct proof saying such a thing, it's safe to assume against it.



Any reasons why not?



How so? Boba is technically a clone, and shouldn't really count, so she's right isn't she?



You're looking at this too superficially. It's not the fact that she predicted the death of a Mandalorian which is impressive, but the fact that she was able to pinpoint the specific action thousands of years before it happened.

Gideon
When are you going to learn that invincibility does not translate to actual power, Nebaris? In a list based on power, Sion is not number one (or any where close) because he has not exhibited feats of power that surpasses any of the upper level Siths. Sidious, for example, is miles and miles ahead of him.



Actually, I don't mean either, since he died, he isn't immortal, invincible, or invulnerable. Nearly so? Yes. But not quite.



So what? Lmao. The Exile is no where near being on par with a NJO Luke or a DE Sidious or a Yoda, or whatever. So, quite simply, Sion was outclassed by someone who isn't that special outside of a unique status with the Force. Next, of course, you'd have to provide an adequete argument and prove that Sion's "morale was low" and that it affected his combat ability.

That's a stretch.



According to Jolly, Traya let it happen, and according to Nai (with quotes as evidence) Traya considers Sion's knowledge and skill to be inadequete. As far as her "precognition" skills are concerned, it isn't infallible, nor would I consider "predicting future events" to be the same as battle-ready precognition. Yoda, for example, was unable to see jack shit in the PT but was still an amazing combatant in terms of predicting moves, and Sidious - the guy manipulating the whole thing - was disarmed by Mace, even when he exhibited the greatest use of "precognition" in the movies.



Yet he was stopped.



No, it isn't the same. Sion is susceptible to assaults from The Exile (who, as ACstyles has proven, could kill Sion without mentioning Traya).
Darth "I-manipulated-the-friggen-galaxy-and-ruled-it-for-two-decades" Sidious and Darth "I-concocted-a-plan-to-destroy-the-Force" Traya would easily break Sion's will, because that's what they do: break people's wills and make them convert to their own agenda. The Exile is a dumbass compared to these two, and if she did it, then they could as well.



Yeah, right. Except a 'regular' Malak is proven to be less than Count Dooku, Revan is weaker than Yoda, and Sion's only claim to fame is his psuedo-invincibility.

In terms of power, you've got DE Sidious. Then Solo, Kun, Bane, Revan, Nihilus, Dooku, Ragnos, and maybe Malak (this isn't in order).

jollyjim311
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
It's not stated in the game or anything, and really, it's highly unlikely, given that Traya leaving herself open to Sion like that is risking her life, I mean she can't have guaranteed that he'd attack and slice off her hand and not her head or anything. It's not the type or risk she'd take, she wasn't reckless, and given that she could have simply used many more opportunities to show The Exile that a bond existed between them that actually wouldn't have been so risky, unless there's direct proof saying such a thing, it's safe to assume against it.

Weren't you just saying how great her precog was?




Look at Palpatine from Episode I to the end of Episode VI, then guess why.




Boba restarted the Mandalorians, meaning that Jango wasn't the last...
That would be like a prediction that "The last Jedi Master will die in exile." (Please note I made that up to prove a point) That would be accurate with Yoda's death, but, since the Jedi order restarted, he was not the last Jedi Master.




She never gave a time period, and, until the last Mandalorian does actually die at the hands of a Jedi, it really means nothing.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Was Bane moving fleets with TK or draining planets in PoD?

I do have an argument. Facts. And it seems you have a stick up your ass.
You have no arguments, and you seem to be here 24/7. Nihilus wasn't moving fleets with TK either, your theory has been debunked. And Bane and Revan were using force storm, thought bomb, and force wave, aka by your logic, they own.




You know nothing about canon so as usual, you're wrong.



And once again, this is why you're an idiot.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
In terms of power, you've got DE Sidious. Then Solo, Kun, Bane, Revan, Nihilus, Dooku, Ragnos, and maybe Malak (this isn't in order).
Why would Solo be above Kun escape, I thought we discussed this? Jacen hasn't exibited anything impressive on the level of Kun or Revan or hell even Bane. And lets leave Ragnos out of this because I want to continue debating objectively and it's a little hard when you include Ragnos, who should be #2 in my opinionsmile Anyways, Revan should be second followed by Kun, then the rest I don't care.

Gideon
Notice how it says "(this isn't in order)"...

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
Notice how it says "(this isn't in order)"...

touche

Nikkolas

Darth Sexy

Nikkolas
There's nothing to say it's wrong so I'm saying it's right.

You get over it.



I'm the one using statements and facts. You're the one arguing against what is outright said in the game. There's no proof it's wrong and it's nothing more than your own OPINION that it is.

From what I've seen of your debating tactics, you are the LAST person to even attempt saying something like telling me to get smarter. It's like the pot that has been soaked in lava calling the kettle black.



Then don't comment on it.......

Gideon
DS, you care enough to comment, so let's not go into that. As far as Ragnos is concerned, we can still debate his prowess objectively. That he was proven to be the strongest of the Ancient Sith does speak strongly for him, and he is certainly one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever. Only when we try to put him as "number two" do the waters get murky and more evidence is demanded. But, even though we haven't seen much of him, it is a canon fact that he was the strongest of the Ancient Sith, and - since I use "quotes" more than anybody - I would argue and rabidly defend that he is one of the best ever, so I don't see why he should be excluded.

That said, Nik is right in one aspect: Ragnos required a scepter to what Nihilus could do naturally. His uber-drain is obviously something that warrants respect and notation.

Nikkolas
Okay, what we KNOW of Ragnos means, as you say, he is > Sadow, Kreesh, etc..

But it is still difficult. For instance, does Kun > Sadow? If so, then how do we guage Kun's power in proportion to Ragnos'? They both > Sadow and that's as far as we can go for judging Marka's power while with Exar, we have feats of his abilities.

I'm not saying Ragnos is Darth Krayt-level in power (about as low as you can get) but I just don't feel there is enough of his abilities known to put him above very worthy candidates like Kun and Bane (IF Bane moved a moon...can someone tell me if he actually did that?)

I'd be willing to give him my #4 or #5 spot..if Bane didn't move a moon, then I'd rank it thusly:

1. Sidious
2. Nihilus
3. Exar Kun/Ragnos
4. Exar Kun/Marka Ragnos
5. Still need to find #5 if Bane didn't move a moon.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
DS, you care enough to comment, so let's not go into that. As far as Ragnos is concerned, we can still debate his prowess objectively. That he was proven to be the strongest of the Ancient Sith does speak strongly for him, and he is certainly one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever. Only when we try to put him as "number two" do the waters get murky and more evidence is demanded. But, even though we haven't seen much of him, it is a canon fact that he was the strongest of the Ancient Sith, and - since I use "quotes" more than anybody - I would argue and rabidly defend that he is one of the best ever, so I don't see why he should be excluded.

That said, Nik is right in one aspect: Ragnos required a scepter to what Nihilus could do naturally. His uber-drain is obviously something that warrants respect and notation.

How do we know that Ragnos required the use of his scepter for this ability Escape? You do realize that someone who can pour that force ability into the scepter would more than likely be able to use it himself? Not to mention Nihilus' technique was simply amplified because he was a wound in the force, and Ragnos' scepter could elso give force abilities to non force sensitives.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Okay, what we KNOW of Ragnos means, as you say, he is > Sadow, Kreesh, etc..

But it is still difficult. For instance, does Kun > Sadow? If so, then how do we guage Kun's power in proportion to Ragnos'? They both > Sadow and that's as far as we can go for judging Marka's power while with Exar, we have feats of his abilities.

I'm not saying Ragnos is Darth Krayt-level in power (about as low as you can get) but I just don't feel there is enough of his abilities known to put him above very worthy candidates like Kun and Bane (IF Bane moved a moon...can someone tell me if he actually did that?)

I'd be willing to give him my #4 or #5 spot..if Bane didn't move a moon, then I'd rank it thusly:

1. Sidious
2. Nihilus
3. Exar Kun/Ragnos
4. Exar Kun/Marka Ragnos
5. Still need to find #5 if Bane didn't move a moon.

Ragnos was the most powerful of all the ancient sith, so it's more than obvious that he knew techniques Exar Kun and Bane have never heard of, seeing as how neither one of them learned as much as Ragnos or lived in that era, so I find it unlikely that anyone is above Ragnos, except for Sidious.

Nikkolas
So Sadow can blow up stars without the ship because he created the ship to be able to do this.



Heard you say this a lot. Can you give me some proof? Quote or anything?





Good for him.

But you can't list any of these techniques.

Or if they mean anything to people who have displayed more power than Ragnos or his subordinates.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
So Sadow can blow up stars without the ship because he created the ship to be able to do this.
Yes. It's funny how people try to discredit the ancient sith because they had amulets(which btw were used to pass down history as well, making them convient multitools), instead of giving them credit for having the ability to create tools to pour their power into.



Nihilus' force drain, force storm, thought bomb, anything Exar Kun did, etc. There you go.


Yet again, Ragnos dying was the end of the Golden Age, meaning while Ragnos was the most powerful, Sadow and Kressh were certainly not up there with the ancient sith that came before. Since they created the most techniques, they are deemed very powerful.

Nikkolas
I give them full credit for having the ability to create things like those amulets.

But it doesn't say much for what they can do on their own. We have a lot of ith who came after them with nothing augmenting their powers and still showing us more power than the Ancients ever did.



It says in the Book of Anger that Sidious made Force Storms, I thought.



Okay, fine then. Simus and Ragnos are the top dogs of the Goden Age?

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
I give them full credit for having the ability to create things like those amulets.
Right on queue computer addict. I don't care what you give them credit for. The fact is they had to know the techniques to fuse them together with the amulets, so the amulets could be used as multipurpose tools.


Yet another stupid post. "OMG they weren't shown to do anything without the amulets that means they can't!!!"



Nobody is talking about Sidious here. Sidious is the most powerful sith lord, and he was the only one to create techniques of his own. The force storm was derived from the ancient sith but Sidious took it to a whole new level.




Ragnos is the greatest and most powerful ancient sith.

Gideon
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How do we know that Ragnos required the use of his scepter for this ability Escape? You do realize that someone who can pour that force ability into the scepter would more than likely be able to use it himself? Not to mention Nihilus' technique was simply amplified because he was a wound in the force, and Ragnos' scepter could elso give force abilities to non force sensitives.

Well, Ragnos is a Sith Lord, and Sith Lords don't like to share power, nor do they like to be dependant on things. So, why would Ragnos create a scepter that could be a potential threat to him if used in the wrong hands?

Really, you have no argument, DS. Sadow required a ship to make a star go supernova. Kun required amulets to perform the blasts of energy. Without these devices, they are unable to replicate the same feats. Why is Ragnos any different?

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
Well, Ragnos is a Sith Lord, and Sith Lords don't like to share power, nor do they like to be dependant on things. So, why would Ragnos create a scepter that could be a potential threat to him if used in the wrong hands?

Really, you have no argument, DS. Sadow required a ship to make a star go supernova. Kun required amulets to perform the blasts of energy. Without these devices, they are unable to replicate the same feats. Why is Ragnos any different?

Explain how I don't have an argument when all of these "tools" have multipurposes? And explain how they "require" the amulets exactly? If they can fuse a specific force power into an amulet that also has another purpose for it, why is it such a stretch to believe that they can do it without the amulets? Obviously a ship is a ship but they had to know the technique to destroy star systems. They didn't just randomly make a magical ship and had a mage cast a spell on it to make it destroy systems. Ragnos' scepter was also his sword so why is it a stretch to assume that he made a tool which is much easier to use for a specific force ability, as well as his fighting sword?

Not to mention it didn't seem as if Ragnos would be scared of it falling into the wrong hands, because he pitted his enemies against each other.

Gideon
Are you asserting that Sadow didn't require the ship to perform his uberfeats? DS, your fanboyism is showing. What other purposes did these "tools" have? Phillips screwdrivers? Oh, no wait - they were the Sith's version of a hammer?

You've got shit to work with. Now, perhaps you might team up with Nai and debate it, but you are asserting they didn't require the tools necessary, and so you must back it the hell up.

With his ship, Sadow can detonate a star.

Without it, he can toss a brick.

And they don't require the technology? Please.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
Are you asserting that Sadow didn't require the ship to perform his uberfeats? DS, your fanboyism is showing. What other purposes did these "tools" have? Phillips screwdrivers? Oh, no wait - they were the Sith's version of a hammer?
No, I clearly said that Sadow's ship didn't count but he DID have to know something about blowing up stars, otherwise there's no way a ship with "Sith" technology could do that.


I'm asserting that something such as the amulet was used as a multipurpose tool, and so was Ragnos' scepter.


You realize we've seen two issues on the ancient sith and yet they created all of these techniques, so I guess you're implying they needed tools. Yet at the same time the whole point is irrelevant because what they did with the tools, nobody else could do without them.

Kadesh
Sadow did use his amulet to blow up a star, as vodos holocron showed

MasterAshenVor
*loves the smell of debate*

Nikkolas
Anyway... Here's my list.

1. Sidious
2. Nihilus
3. Exar Kun
4. Bane
5. OT Vader

Kadesh
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Anyway... Here's my list.

1. Sidious
2. Nihilus
3. Exar Kun
4. Bane
5. OT Vader If you read the bane vs vader thread, styles proved vader the victor so its

1.Sidious
2.Exar
3.Nihilus
4.Revan
5.OT vader/Bane

Nikkolas
Eh?

If Bane really moved a moon, I don't see how Vader would be stronger than him.

But if he didn't, then alright.

I stil don't count Revan. I'll think of someone else.

Apollo Cloud
Bane actually did move a moon: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=435643&highlight=title%3A%28Bane%29+forumid%3A6 .

Even disregarding that feat, Bane's still firmly above Vader, so it's not like it matters too much.

Riverollv
Originally posted by Gideon
Who the hell voted for Darth Krayt? There's a better argument for REX's ass being the most powerful Sith Lord than Krayt.

laughing Probably you're right. And who the hell voted for Ulic QEL-Droma? Krayt and Qel-Droma are not even close in being the most powerful...or the second, or the third, or fourth.... and maybe fifth

Riverollv
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud

3. Darth Malak
4. Darth Revan


Malak ABOVE Revan? Why would you even say that?? Didn't you see Revan own Malak, even when he was being powered up by the Star Forge and had captive Jedi to feed on? On a simple plain on Naboo, Revan would CRUSH Malak WITHOUT ANY doubt. It's just totally baseless.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bane actually did move a moon: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=435643&highlight=title%3A%28Bane%29+forumid%3A6 .

Even disregarding that feat, Bane's still firmly above Vader, so it's not like it matters too much.

The first paragraph voids that entire agrument

Originally posted by The Sith'ari
I've made this thread in response to people wanting me to prove that Bane pulled a moon out of orbit, even though he's never actually shown to do so, so here's my argument.

He said it himself, "he's never actually shown to do so."

Nikkolas
Hm...Ulic vs. Krayt...wonder how that fight would go.

But you're right. They are nowhere near the top 5.

Apollo Cloud
Originally posted by ESB -1138
The first paragraph voids that entire agrument



He said it himself, "he's never actually shown to do so."

Uh huh, and if you knew how to actually read, you'd realise that his argument wasn't relying on whether or not Bane had been shown to pull off the feat, so what you've posted is entirely irrelevant, and achieves nothing. In fact, his argument was fully taking into account the fact that Bane was never shown to have done the feat, but that it was still provable with alternative proof and evidence.

Lightsnake
It's Palpatine. Go away, Noobaris

Darth Sexy
We know it's Sidious lightsnake, nobody pays attention to Noobaris.

Kadesh
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Eh?

If Bane really moved a moon, I don't see how Vader would be stronger than him.

But if he didn't, then alright.

I stil don't count Revan. I'll think of someone else. Bane never moved the moon, he only planned to but he didnt

S_W_LeGenD
Why people are even arguing in this thread, since the name - Darth Sidious is already in the list.

Darth Sidious by DE surpassed all in terms of power and skill.

Count Makashi
ROTS Sidious is already that, DE Sidious is eons ahead of any other Siths.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why people are even arguing in this thread, since the name - Darth Sidious is already in the list.

Darth Sidious by DE surpassed all in terms of power and skill.

PT/OT Palpatine is the best. If anything his DE form would be weaker considering the clones couldn't handle the dark side energy and thus they became useless after some time so it would seem that Palpatine before his death would clearly make him the best since his body would be capable of handling the energy.

Gideon
To be quite technical, that isn't the case. Palpatine's original body was suffering in a similar fashion; his physiology couldn't withstand the massive amounts of dark side energy within him. The clones, being genetically "weaker" simply gave into the power quicker. But that isn't to say - at all - that Palpatine couldn't generate the same power in his clones that he couldn't in his original body. In Empire's End, when he is on the verge of death in his final clone - he can still exhibit the same Force powers - but it simply brings him closer to death.

The big EH

Nikkolas
No what he said was:
"You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!"

As he would of if it hadn't been for Mustafar.

The big EH
mustafar didn't weaken his connection to the force, it just weakenned his body to a point where he couldn't even use force lightning, as anakin managed to live on like obi-wan, yoda and qui-gon did except the fact that it was his connection to force that let him live on, though because of that he didn't last as long as obi-wan

Kadesh
Originally posted by The big EH
mustafar didn't weaken his connection to the force, it just weakenned his body to a point where he couldn't even use force lightning, as anakin managed to live on like obi-wan, yoda and qui-gon did except the fact that it was his connection to force that let him live on, though because of that he didn't last as long as obi-wan Wrong, he was referring to anakin who would have been twice as powerful as he is, and after mustafar, lucas stated he lost most of his force potential

vader11
Anakin is likely to become the most powerful living thing in the universe if he didn't injured.

overlord
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bane actually did move a moon: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=435643&highlight=title%3A%28Bane%29+forumid%3A6 .

Even disregarding that feat, Bane's still firmly above Vader, so it's not like it matters too much. I'm surprised you didn't create your account the exact same day that that Bane obsessesive 'sith'ari/sexyback/the planet' was permanently banned. There were actually a couple of days between them so I guess I can't speculate..

lord griffin
smokin' i don't think darth sidious was all that powerful, he just had the right ideas for what he had going for him. he olny really got into one fight one on one with master windu, and if anakin didn't step in then sidious would have died, but then the movies would have been over. smokin'

vader11
But DE Sidous is much more powerful.

Kadesh
Originally posted by lord griffin
smokin' i don't think darth sidious was all that powerful, he just had the right ideas for what he had going for him. he olny really got into one fight one on one with master windu, and if anakin didn't step in then sidious would have died, but then the movies would have been over. smokin' He is powerful, The ancient sith said this He gave up everything long ago, the greatest of us, the strongest ever Empires end

MasterAshenVor
Heres what i say about sidious


gun_bandana afro

Gideon
Yeah, there's far too much to support that the Emperor was the most powerful Sith and, at the very least, that the dark side was the deepest with him. There are quotes from canon sources out the yin-yang to support it.

vader11
So this thread can be closedstick out tongue

MasterAshenVor
If sidious was so damn powerful as you say then why did he get owned by Luke hmmmmm?

Count Makashi
Because this thread is the most powerful Sith, Like is not a Sith.

Darth Hord
Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
If sidious was so damn powerful as you say then why did he get owned by Luke hmmmmm?

Luke is the most powerful person in star wars. Why is losing to him bad, he would do worse to the other sith lords.

Gideon
Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
If sidious was so damn powerful as you say then why did he get owned by Luke hmmmmm?

1.) First off, Luke defeated Sidious; being 'defeated' is not the same as being 'owned'. 'Ownage' implies an easy fight or victory, such as what Anakin did to the Separatist leaders or what Darth Sidious did to to Mace's crew in RotS.

2.) Evidence strongly points to Luke being assisted by Leia via battle meditation or some varient in the final lightsaber fight with Palpatine, since a.) Sidious curbstomped him prior, b.) was on the verge of beating him in that duel, and c.) Leia told Luke that she had "already" joined her power to his.

3.) Sidious was still far more powerful than either of them in Force strength, and the only reason he died was because Luke, Leia, and Anakin combined their Force strength and isolated Palpatine from his Force Storm.

4.) Sidious, on his deathbed , curbstomped Luke's forces attempting to stop him and disabled Leia. He was only stopped when Brand and "all the Jedi before " entrapped Sidious's spirit as they merged with the Force.

Darth_Glentract
I'd say Sidious is the strongest with either Exar or Ragnos coming in close second.

Nikkolas
Nihilus eats Ragnos.

Tangible God
Nihilus goes back LucasArts' file of antagonists reserved only for unoriginal, desperate, pressed-for-time games.

Nikkolas
Actually, KOTOR 2 is fairly original in its plot.

Galactic conquest is kinda...old. But that's not the objective of any of the Sith Lords in the game. One Sith has degenerated into a primal force of darkness, another sets her sights as boldly high as destroying the thing that rules all life and the other while shallowly nothing more than hate and anger, has a deeper core to his emotions and minset.

Not to mention the background of Nihilus and his origins leave much room for development.

Kadesh
ragnos has done nothing, so exar and nihilus comes after sidious, then revan and vader

Count Makashi
You forgot Dooku.

Tangible God
Where would Sadow be?

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Nihilus eats Ragnos.
That's if Ragnos doesn't curbstomp Nihilus first.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's if Ragnos doesn't curbstomp Nihilus first.
Stop under-estimating Nihilus.

We haven't seen much from Ragnos apart from stories about his long rule.

And KOTOR Sith were stronger then the Ancients.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Stop under-estimating Nihilus.

We haven't seen much from Ragnos apart from stories about his long rule.

And KOTOR Sith were stronger then the Ancients.

lol since when? Aside from Revan and Kun who could be as strong as the ancients, we don't see anyone that's uber elite. In fact, all of them learned ancient sith techniques, yet Revan is the only one with vast ancient sith knowledge. I fail to see how any one of them can challenge the most powerful DLOTS of the ancient sith who ruled over a century during the pinnacle of dark side power. I don't see any other sith other than Sidious achieving close to that.

Nikkolas
Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?

And yes, they can. Ragnos required a scepter to do something Nihilus could do on his own and in greater effect. So much for the most powerful DLOTS who is kinda pathetic compared to all the Sith who came after him. Particularly Sidious and Nihilus. Confirmed fleet-destroyers and planet-killers while Ragnos' people threw bricks.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?
Are you an idiot or something? I was expecting better from you!

Kriea herself made it very clear that how powerful Revan was. She has trained both Revan and Nihilus and she knew the truth.

And Revan has performed many impressive feats during his time.

My actual point is that KOTOR Sith (including Kun, Revan and Nihilus) are stronger then the Ancients.

Apollo Cloud
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?

And yes, they can. Ragnos required a scepter to do something Nihilus could do on his own and in greater effect. So much for the most powerful DLOTS who is kinda pathetic compared to all the Sith who came after him. Particularly Sidious and Nihilus. Confirmed fleet-destroyers and planet-killers while Ragnos' people threw bricks.

Eh, I personally view Nihilus as being more powerful than Revan, but I don't think you're giving the guy enough credit. Now let's look at his defeat of Malak at the Star Forge: he was essentially facing a guy being powered up by an entire race of force sensitives (likely millions of beings given the fact that the Rakatans were the most prosperous civilisation at the time of creating the Star Forge, and as Advent pointed out, far less prosperous races still numbered in the hundreds of thousands. So you can relate: someone similar, UnuThul, was even able to give post NJO Luke a hard time in combat, so surely you can see how great an opponent Malak would have been) and he was able to beat him at least twice in a row (implying a huge superiority in power), after battling his way through an entire fortress of darksiders, advanced battled droids, and elite sith troopers (implying some level of fatigue).

While we can't really gauge too many specifics on Revan's power, based on that feat alone, it's pretty obvious that it was phenomenal.

Now that's just KotOR Revan, Post KotOR Revan would be even more impressive, given that he was stated to have regained all of his lost memories after the events seen in KotOR, which would have caused his power to skyrocket given the extent of darkside knowledge he actually knew.

I'd still place Nihilus above him, but I reckon they're about on par with eachother.

Gideon
That isn't even close to being remotely true. Simply saying that 'the KOTOR Sith were stronger than the Ancients' would imply that all of the Sith in the games - including the assassins, lackeys, and the guys from the Academy - were stronger than the Ancient Sith as well, and that's just stupid.

Furthermore, Kreia seems to think that the Ancient Sith are miles and miles ahead of the Sith in her era. At least for the vast majority. And while that isn't necessarily de facto truth, it does function as evidence, and it proves that - at least one Sith Lord thinks contrary to your belief.

Lastly, use logical deduction. Darth Bandon was a KOTOR-era Sith, and Ragnos would pretty much own him by looking at him. These were the Sith who - with the aid of technology could detonate stars and all other sort of stuff. Ragnos kept them in line, so he is easily far above the KOTOR-Sith with the possible exception of Revan and Nihilus.

Kadesh
Originally posted by Kadesh
ragnos has done nothing, so exar and nihilus comes after sidious, then revan and vader Either dooku or bane is the 6th place

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?

And yes, they can. Ragnos required a scepter to do something Nihilus could do on his own and in greater effect. So much for the most powerful DLOTS who is kinda pathetic compared to all the Sith who came after him. Particularly Sidious and Nihilus. Confirmed fleet-destroyers and planet-killers while Ragnos' people threw bricks.

Good god, you just keep getting dumber. "Well if there are no quotes about Revan, hes not powerful!!". Your debating skills and fanboyism are really sad. And Nihilus killed A PLANET, not planets. Revan had ancient sith techniques that could destroy any force sensitive. His knowledge is vastly superior to Nihilus. Ragnos and his scepter also gave the force to non force sensitives, Nihilus can't do that. Ragnos' people nothing, those were other ancient sith. The death of Ragnos signified the end of the golden age, so it's logical to assume the sith during the golden age were VERY powerful.

Gideon
I haven't played Jedi Academy in a long time, but I don't recall the Staff of Ragnos having the capability to 'destroy any Force sensitive', because I owned both Tavion and possessed-Tavion with the Force repeatedly, and didn't both of them wield the scepter?

I think what you meant to say is 'it could siphon Force energy', and it did. The staff would temporarily drain Force sensitive people until their energy replenished. It would also consume Force sensitive areas permenantly until the staff was destroyed.

LeGenD's idea that the Ancient Sith were weaker than the KOTOR-Sith is stupid, and rightly so . But, having said that, DS, not every Ancient Sith is allpowerful. With the exception of a few, Nihilus and Revan could probably own all of them. So, if you're implying that they are all greater, don't.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Gideon
I haven't played Jedi Academy in a long time, but I don't recall the Staff of Ragnos having the capability to 'destroy any Force sensitive', because I owned both Tavion and possessed-Tavion with the Force repeatedly, and didn't both of them wield the scepter?

I think what you meant to say is 'it could siphon Force energy', and it did. The staff would temporarily drain Force sensitive people until their energy replenished. It would also consume Force sensitive areas permenantly until the staff was destroyed.

LeGenD's idea that the Ancient Sith were weaker than the KOTOR-Sith is stupid, and rightly so . But, having said that, DS, not every Ancient Sith is allpowerful. With the exception of a few, Nihilus and Revan could probably own all of them. So, if you're implying that they are all greater, don't.

It's a possibility but most of you base the ancient sith ability on Sadow, who was powerful, but not a real combatant. However what most fail to realize is that the most powerful ancient sith were alive during the golden age of the sith, whatever the time frame was, but they are indeed unknown. However I don't think Nihilus or Revan could handle Ragnos but that may be due more to fanboyism than logic.

Kadesh
Well luke admitted he could not take on ragnos alone in JA

ADarksideJedi
The empire Sidious acouse!jm

Tangible God
Originally posted by Kadesh
Well luke admitted he could not take on ragnos alone in JA But since Luke's power multiplied by 693 as of DN...

Kadesh
Originally posted by Tangible God
But since Luke's power multiplied by 693 as of DN... I was referring to luke at that time, and i merely point out that it might be possible for ragnos to be a match for luke as of JA

Gideon
While I will not necessarily dispute Ragnos's superiority over Luke Jedi Academy], it should be known that Luke's research of Ragnos isn't exactly foolproof. Emperor Palpatine's purge has limited - even as of LotF - the Jedi's knowledge and artifacts. He said that it 'might' take the whole academy to stop Ragnos; he didn't know how powerful he might be.

Advent
Gideon is correct, though, I certainly don't agree with Marka Ragnos being any more powerful than Luke himself, even as of JA. Luke actually says, and I quote, "If Ragnos is resurrected there's no telling what he might be able to do". It's evident he had no idea what Marka was capable of, so I would hardly consider what Luke says as usable evidence.

Lightsnake
Indeed. Luke, at that point, is a power house of his own.

As a whole, I really consider it unlikely Palpatine had the time or inclination to give Luke massive history lessons in between the Sith training.

Nikkolas
So...Yeah,..Ragnos is nothing to Luke.

Kadesh
Ok, then its safe to assume ragnos should not be anywhere near the top 5 until he does something, he may be so strong he could fart and kill bane or he could be so weak r2d2 may just be able to pwn him

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Kadesh
Ok, then its safe to assume ragnos should not be anywhere near the top 5 until he does something, he may be so strong he could fart and kill bane or he could be so weak r2d2 may just be able to pwn him

No he should be on the level of Revan or Kun, until more is known.

Apollo Cloud
No, he shouldn't.

Gideon
I am divided; where he 'should be placed' cannot be determined at this point in the juncture. However, the question of 'is Ragnos powerful' is a solid hell yes. In my opinion he is definately one of the most powerful, managing to keep people like Sadow (who, with the aid of technology could devastate stars) in line for over a century.

Tangible God
Watch out Gideon, you'll get those claiming that his ship did all the work.

jollyjim311
Well, Aleema did it too, I don't see why it's that great or has much to do with personal power. However, I'd agree that Ragnos is powerful, but, we can't guess the extent.

Tangible God
To be safe, we'll declare him at Exar's level. Room to improve and get worse comfortably.

Gideon
Originally posted by Tangible God
Watch out Gideon, you'll get those claiming that his ship did all the work.

Well, for the most part, it did. With the exception of Ragnos , I think that the Ancient Sith aren't anything particularly special in the 'combat' department without technology. For example, if you take away their technology, combat-wise, I'd personally say Maul would be able to own a lot of them. Knowledge wise, they might as well be the 'best' of the Sith eras. The Ancient Sith are not uber powerful without their technology, as some would have you believe. Any of the PT greats would curbstomp most of them (if not all of them). Ragnos, however, kept them in total fear when they did have this technology. He's on up there in terms of power.

Apollo Cloud
Yeah, but it's likely Ragnos had such technology himself (you seem to not be taking that into account), and if we go by the way the sith honoured him at his funeral, it's likely that it was more out of respect than fear that they didn't attempt to turn on him.

Tangible God
Yeah, because Sith all truly respect their superior. "I got a chance to kill you, I think you'd lose to me, I'd be in command then, but I won't do it... I just, I respect you too much."


Riiight...

Apollo Cloud
Marka Ragnos, great Dark Lord, wear this victory helmet during your battles in The Afterlife

All Hail the memory of Marka Ragnos! His legacy will live for centuries among the Sith People and their Rulers

You would destroy the greatness Marka Ragnos maintained in the Sith Empire when he was Dark Lord! You shame his memory!

All fear, huh?

Tangible God
Pure respect and no fear huh? Would you refuse to attack Leonidas from 300 purely out of respect, or is that a euphemism for "I'm afraid to fight him?"

No doubt there was considerable respect for Ragnos' power in the Sith Empire, but respect would not deter an ambitious Lord like Naga Sadow.

Gideon
I mean no offence to you when I say this Nebaris, but I have been 'fighting' the Ancient Sith fanboyism and the idea that Marka Ragnos is a god for longer than most people . Hell, I've made a massive thread dedicated to it, called 'the Antithesis of Ragnos Owns All' before you came along. I have taken it all into account. The difference between myself and everyone else, as we have shown on numerous occasions, is that I rarely venture into the world of what is likely. I operate on quotes, evidence, so on and so forth. While I do not dispute that Ragnos made use of technology , it is baseless to assume that he was dependent on it to the degree that the others were. Until evidence comes along that changes my mind, I don't accept it.



I do not dispute that they respect him, but their fear is quite obvious. In fact, given that they are Sith - basing themselves on the philosophy that 'the strongest shall rule' - their respect means so much more. They respect and fear his power, it's not exactly a stretch. What exactly were you trying to point out, because I'm missing it.

Apollo Cloud
Lol, don't worry, none of that was offensive in the least. And yeah, I don't know, my comment was pretty dumb coming to think about it (it happens, I am human, albeit a pretty incredible one), what I should have said was that it was due to a bit of both, which it likely was.

Gideon
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Lol, don't worry, none of that was offensive in the least. And yeah, I don't know, my comment was pretty dumb coming to think about it (it happens, I am human, albeit a pretty incredible one), what I should have said was that it was due to a bit of both, which it likely was.

Bingo. We're in accordance.

Kadesh
Did k.j.a put kun above ragnos

Nikkolas
Well, it's obvious Super Perfect Cell was pretty close to, if not equal to, SSJ2 Gohan at the time.

...wait, what?

Sidious is the most powerful. Why is this topic still around.

Mider999
sidious is not the strongest there are other sith who have done things greater then he has.

jollyjim311
Originally posted by Mider999
sidious is not the strongest there are other sith who have done things greater then he has.

..In certain respects I'm sure there are, but as far as personal power goes, Sidious takes the cake.

Darth Hord
Originally posted by Mider999
sidious is not the strongest there are other sith who have done things greater then he has.

And they would be who?

Apollo Cloud
Bane, for one. Before gaining the orbalisk armour, he's demonstrated some pretty insane raw power (collapsing an entire 20 story temples in seconds with one wave of energy for example), and some pretty awesome mastery and control (for example controlling the powers of 25 sith lords as well as his own, and directing it into an attack; the attack was powerful enough to destroy anything and everything in its path, and had the capabilities to destroy an entire world). Now that alone probably wouldn't put him above Sidious, however here's where it gets good: after gaining the orbalisk armour, he basically grows ten times more powerful. The orbalisk armour basically (among other things) constantly pumps Bane up with darkside energies, meaning he would never fatigue and would always have a fresh reserve of force energy, and theoretically could give him an infinite amount of force energy depending on how much he gathered. For instance, he could literally produce unlimited force waves, unlimited storms of force lightning, unlimited blasts of energy, and really, he has unlimited force reserves to perform any force power. Bane's basically who Sidious wanted to be when he screamed "unlimited Power!!" Or, alternatively, he could simply just gather the constant supply of energy, gather as much as his body could handle (which is huge based on the second bracket of my second sentence that I posted above), and then just release that, which not many people would be able to handle. Not many people can touch Bane, and Sidious isn't one of them imho.

Darth Sweers
Everyone knows Darth Sidisou was the greatest sith of all time closely followed by Darth Vader. Darth Bane and Plagueis were powerful but never came close to the child of the force and Sidiosu who wore the kyber crystal greatly enchancing his power.

Marka Ragnos does not exist in Lucas true vision.

1. Darth Sidious
2. Darth Vader
3. Darth Bane
4. Darth Plagueis
5. Darth Tyranus
6. Darth Rage
7. Darth Maul
8. Darth Scarz
9. Darth Revan
10. Darth Imperius
11. Darth Ghore
12. Darth Vak
13. Darth Slane
14. Darth Vicrone
15. Darth Malak
16. Exar Kun
17. Darth Xio Jade
18. Darth Seer
19. Darth Thrax
20. Darth Secretus

Kadesh
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bane, for one. Before gaining the orbalisk armour, he's demonstrated some pretty insane raw power (collapsing an entire 20 story temples in seconds with one wave of energy for example), and some pretty awesome mastery and control (for example controlling the powers of 25 sith lords as well as his own, and directing it into an attack; the attack was powerful enough to destroy anything and everything in its path, and had the capabilities to destroy an entire world). Now that alone probably wouldn't put him above Sidious, however here's where it gets good: after gaining the orbalisk armour, he basically grows ten times more powerful. The orbalisk armour basically (among other things) constantly pumps Bane up with darkside energies, meaning he would never fatigue and would always have a fresh reserve of force energy, and theoretically could give him an infinite amount of force energy depending on how much he gathered. For instance, he could literally produce unlimited force waves, unlimited storms of force lightning, unlimited blasts of energy, and really, he has unlimited force reserves to perform any force power. Bane's basically who Sidious wanted to be when he screamed "unlimited Power!!" Or, alternatively, he could simply just gather the constant supply of energy, gather as much as his body could handle (which is huge based on the second bracket of my second sentence that I posted above), and then just release that, which not many people would be able to handle. Not many people can touch Bane, and Sidious isn't one of them imho. Blah blah blah, Already the ancient sith stated that sidious is the strongest who ever lived in EE, TNEC backs this up, DSSB backs this up, you fail banehumper

Apollo Cloud
Yeah, and unlike us, the Ancient Sith don't have the luxury of an omniscient narrator explaining factually all the events that we witness through novels, and comics, and the movies themselves. They're not infallible is my point, so if that's the best you got, try harder.



Haven't we been through this before Kadesh, about... 100 gazillion times? The NEC is an in-universe source, written by a SW character that's certainly fallible, and his material is thus subject to being inaccurate based on him being uninformed, misinformed, or a dumbass.



No it doesn't. So as usual, every single one of your points is flawed. You're the only one that fails Kadesh, go back to debating against SW Legend.

jollyjim311
Originally posted by Darth Sweers
Everyone knows Darth Sidisou was the greatest sith of all time closely followed by Darth Vader. Darth Bane and Plagueis were powerful but never came close to the child of the force and Sidiosu who wore the kyber crystal greatly enchancing his power.

Marka Ragnos does not exist in Lucas true vision.

1. Darth Sidious
2. Darth Vader
3. Darth Bane
4. Darth Plagueis
5. Darth Tyranus
6. Darth Rage
7. Darth Maul
8. Darth Scarz
9. Darth Revan
10. Darth Imperius
11. Darth Ghore
12. Darth Vak
13. Darth Slane
14. Darth Vicrone
15. Darth Malak
16. Exar Kun
17. Darth Xio Jade
18. Darth Seer
19. Darth Thrax
20. Darth Secretus

Nikkolas
Darth Rage rules.

vader11
Originally posted by Darth Sweers
Everyone knows Darth Sidisou was the greatest sith of all time closely followed by Darth Vader. Darth Bane and Plagueis were powerful but never came close to the child of the force and Sidiosu who wore the kyber crystal greatly enchancing his power.

Marka Ragnos does not exist in Lucas true vision.

1. Darth Sidious
2. Darth Vader
3. Darth Bane
4. Darth Plagueis
5. Darth Tyranus
6. Darth Rage
7. Darth Maul
8. Darth Scarz
9. Darth Revan
10. Darth Imperius
11. Darth Ghore
12. Darth Vak
13. Darth Slane
14. Darth Vicrone
15. Darth Malak
16. Exar Kun
17. Darth Xio Jade
18. Darth Seer
19. Darth Thrax
20. Darth Secretus laughing

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, and unlike us, the Ancient Sith don't have the luxury of an omniscient narrator explaining factually all the events that we witness through novels, and comics, and the movies themselves. They're not infallible is my point, so if that's the best you got, try harder.



Haven't we been through this before Kadesh, about... 100 gazillion times? The NEC is an in-universe source, written by a SW character that's certainly fallible, and his material is thus subject to being inaccurate based on him being uninformed, misinformed, or a dumbass.



No it doesn't. So as usual, every single one of your points is flawed. You're the only one that fails Kadesh, go back to debating against SW Legend.

For someone who's never won an argument, you shouldn't be critisizing anybody's debating skills Noobaris. And Sidious being #1 as of PT is confirmed by VARIOUS sources. However, you're an idiot who loves arguing against facts so when you don't like something, it's suddenly infallible or ambiguous. Tool.

Apollo Cloud
Yeah, except you've argued against every 'fact' yourself sometime or another. The difference between us however is that I'm better at it, and you got crushed each time, and that's why you're now such a strong advocate of them. Seriously man, go back to thinking that Revan and the Ancient Sith >>>> everyone else, I at least somewhat repected you when you could form your own opinions, you puppet.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, except you've argued against every 'fact' yourself sometime or another. The difference between us however is that I'm better at it, and you got crushed each time, and that's why you're now such a strong advocate of them. Seriously man, go back to thinking that Revan and the Ancient Sith >>>> everyone else, I at least somewhat repected you when you could form your own opinions, you puppet.

LOL.. The worst debater on this forum, the idiot who has never won a debate because he constantly argues against facts, is telling me he si better than me.. AHAHAHAAHAHAH.. All of your points have been completely destroyed by either me, Advent, LS, or Escape. I don't think anybody gives you the time of day anymore. Stop lying to yourself Noobaris, it doesn't help your low self esteem.

Kadesh
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, and unlike us, the Ancient Sith don't have the luxury of an omniscient narrator explaining factually all the events that we witness through novels, and comics, and the movies themselves. They're not infallible is my point, so if that's the best you got, try harder. I dont have to try, everytthing in the sources proved you wrong.


Originally posted by Apollo Cloud

Haven't we been through this before Kadesh, about... 100 gazillion times? The NEC is an in-universe source, written by a SW character that's certainly fallible, and his material is thus subject to being inaccurate based on him being uninformed, misinformed, or a dumbass. Still in denial? It wasnt written by a sw character factually dumbass, its the author who wrote everything and put down that it was a SW character who wrote it and sadly the author holds more creidibility than a character so facts > you
Originally posted by Apollo Cloud

No it doesn't. So as usual, every single one of your points is flawed. You're the only one that fails Kadesh, go back to debating against SW Legend. it isnt simply, Dont tell me to debate when you yourself cant


Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Thanks to nikkolas for the source, he may be a fanboy of some kotor characters but unlike you, He does not go against canon

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Kadesh
I dont have to try, everytthing in the sources proved you wrong.


Still in denial? It wasnt written by a sw character factually dumbass, its the author who wrote everything and put down that it was a SW character who wrote it and sadly the author holds more creidibility than a character so facts > you
it isnt simply, Dont tell me to debate when you yourself cant


Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Thanks to nikkolas for the source, he may be a fanboy of some kotor characters but unlike you, He does not go against canon

I've never seen the KJA Insider thing nor the DE sourcebook. Is that something I can buy from Amazon or can I view it online?

Darth Sexy
Also, wtf is tfn.net, it's a tallahassee site.

MasterAshenVor
Iv spoken out aginst Darth Nihilius befor but now i have changed my outlook on the Dark Lord this new info has convinced me that
Darth Nihilius is THE strongest Sith Lord of the Ancient Republic Era

Darth Nihilius vs Sion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IobIhctxRXg

More Proof Of Nihilius's Power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBgnzwBv7I

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