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Full power for both, who wins?

According to Amalgam:
Living Tribunal = Spectre (Logos) = the Voice = Source

But canon feature- and statementwise the Living Tribunal takes it.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Full power for both, who wins?

LT

LT

The source was above spectre before he merged.

Originally posted by fangirl101

The source was above spectre before he merged.
What does that have to do with the LT?

IIRC LT is now the second in power in the Marvel U.

If the source is just an part of the presence and not his equal the best score it could get against LT is an stalemate.

I can't see LT (at his best) loosing to someone below the Presence or GEB .

Ignoring PIS .

Originally posted by Mr Master
What does that have to do with the LT?


Source was above the Spectre BEFORE his merger. Just providing info. Don't you do that often?

Come in and say you dont' care who wins, just giving info about your "marvel" characters?

I just did the same thing. Why should it bother you when you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO known for doing the same thing?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
IIRC LT is now the second in power in the Marvel U.

If the source is just an part of the presence and not his equal the best score it could get against LT is an stalemate.

I can't see LT (at his best) loosing to someone below the Presence or GEB .

Ignoring PIS .

What the hell does 2nd in power have to do with anything?

If the Beyonder and The Molecule man were never retconned and the one above was here too, the lt would be fourth in power. So being 2nd in power doesn't mean he can only be beaten by a supreme being.

Originally posted by fangirl101
What the hell does 2nd in power have to do with anything?

If the Beyonder and The Molecule man were never retconned and the one above was here too, the lt would be fourth in power. So being 2nd in power doesn't mean he can only be beaten by a supreme being.

No offense .

I talk about LT how he is currently portrayed, not about like LT was portrayed.

And if an company chooses an being to be the 2nd in power it's only fair to assume that it's as powerful as the 2nd in power (even if there are more beings qualifying for the 2nd place) from another company and nothing short of another supreme being would be able to defeat it.

Just my opinion, so no offense .

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
No offense .

I talk about LT how he is currently portrayed, not about like LT was portrayed.

And if an company chooses an being to be the 2nd in power it's only fair to assume that it's as powerful as the 2nd in power (even if there are more beings qualifying for the 2nd place) from another company and nothing short of another supreme being would be able to defeat it.

Just my opinion, so no offense .
So then it is your opinion that the LT is more powerful now than back then. It is mine too. glad there are some people of reason out there. But seriously the lt is 2nd in marvel, but I don't think he can beat lucifer or michael. Both of whom would be on par with the heart of the universe. All 3 of whom are superior to the lt.

Originally posted by fangirl101

Source was above the Spectre BEFORE his merger. Just providing info. Don't you do that often?

Come in and say you dont' care who wins, just giving info about your "marvel" characters?

I just did the same thing. Why should it bother you when you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO known for doing the same thing?
I apologize.

See, Mr M keeps it real.

Originally posted by fangirl101
So then it is your opinion that the LT is more powerful now than back then. It is mine too. glad there are some people of reason out there. But seriously the lt is 2nd in marvel, but I don't think he can beat lucifer or michael. Both of whom would be on par with the heart of the universe. All 3 of whom are superior to the lt.

That may be true (I learned to be careful with my statements on this board ).

But is the Source on par with Michael, Lucifer or THOTU?

Originally posted by fangirl101

So then it is your opinion that the LT is more powerful now than back then.

It is mine too. glad there are some people of reason out there.
Dag, and you had to mess it up.

doh ... I'm not going through this, yet again.

So ... as you wish.

I agree that LT is far more impressive now, then he was back in the day. I mean, LT used to refer to making a sun go nova as his "ultimate punishment." Hell, Korvac was able to shield himself, and the earth from said "ultimate punishment." I only bring up the latter, because Korvac actually defied LT's decree when he shielded the earth.

Originally posted by Galan007

I agree that LT is far more impressive now, then he was back in the day. I mean, LT used to refer to making a sun go nova as his "ultimate punishment." Hell, Korvac was able to shield himself, and the earth from said "ultimate punishment." I only bring up the latter, because Korvac actually defied LT's decree when he shielded the earth.
That was in 1982 in a "What if."

And the LT (with a gesture) was still able to rip that entire Universe from the Multiverse,
then the LT sealed that Universe in an impenetrable barrier.

On top of that,
it was Death that somehow aided Korvac in defying the Super Nova,
Korvac didn't defy the LT's power directly at all,
in fact,
the LT and Korvac never even saw each other.

It would be a good fight,people seem to forgot that in a very weakened state the source created a universe that contains everything else in the dc comics universe(multiverse/omniverse whatever you wanna call it that contains all of dc).

LT in a ridiculous stomp.

Originally posted by Air Legend
LT in a ridiculous stomp.

Well now, the source powers EVERYTHING. And that was at half strength. The LT could not beat protege. The source would simply pull the plug on Protege's power where he a DC character. Rediculous stomp would be over estimating the LT IMO.

LT takes it. IMO LT>Spectre.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That was in 1982 in a "What if." The year said event occured shouldn't matter if LT's power has remained stagnant.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And the LT (with a gesture) was still able to rip that entire Universe from the Multiverse,
then the LT sealed that Universe in an impenetrable barrier.

On top of that,
it was Death that somehow aided Korvac in defying the Super Nova,
Korvac didn't defy the LT's power directly at all,
in fact,
the LT and Korvac never even saw each other. LT still referred to making a sun go nova, as his "ultimate punishment", back then - and his cosmic decree was still defied when the earth remained unharmed after his "ultimate punishment" was unleashed, back then.

All I'm saying is, LT's a lot more impressive nowadays.

Many here put the source above Michael and Lucifer. If that's true, then maybe the source can win. But my hunch tells me the LT.

Is the source above Mike and Lucy?

Originally posted by Galan007

The year said event occured shouldn't matter if LT's power has remained stagnant.
True that, I forgot he had real showings in 1968.
Originally posted by Galan007

LT still referred to making a sun go nova, as his "ultimate punishment",
back then - and his cosmic decree was still defied when the earth remained unharmed after his "ultimate punishment" was unleashed, back then.
That's his ultimate judgement in a "What if"
where the writers couldn't allow LT to stop Korvac,
because the story was about Korvac erasing that reality with the UN.

(imo, LT should've never been there)

The Earth remained unharmed
because Death aided Korvac somehow,
so the Sun going Nova was in-effective.

Meh, the whole crap was PIS!

I mean the LT can casually rip entire Universes from the Multiverse,
but instead, he decides to attack Korvac indirectly
and with a Sun going Nova to add to the humor?

Come on brother G, laugh with me.
Originally posted by Galan007

All I'm saying is, LT's a lot more impressive nowadays.
I agree, he's had better performances,
but there is no evidence of any kind that the LT was upgraded,
and we both already know this.

In fact,
the LT's bio is virtually identical from his first in 1983 to his last 2006:

LT's bio 1983 (powers)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/3664/lt1dv2.th.jpg


LT's bio 2006 (powers)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4265/lt2vm6.th.jpg

LT wins, the source had such a lame showing in DOTNG.

Originally posted by King Kandy
LT wins, the source had such a lame showing in DOTNG.
The source, LT had such a lame showing against protege.

Originally posted by Air Legend
LT in a ridiculous stomp. Agreed.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Well now, the source powers EVERYTHING. And that was at half strength. The LT could not beat protege. The source would simply pull the plug on Protege's power where he a DC character. Rediculous stomp would be over estimating the LT IMO. The Protege copied the Lt's powers. I dont think the Protege could have defeat the Lt. I still think a kid wit Lt's powers would lose wielding it against the Lt but we will never know. The Source couldnt pull the plug on Proteges power. He couldnt do that to Darkseid. I dont know where you are getting this from?

Originally posted by King Kandy
LT wins, the source had such a lame showing in DOTNG. Agreed. My opinion of the Source went way downhill after I read this comic.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
The source, LT had such a lame showing against protege. No he didnt. He stood there as Scathan pwned him. Protege was defeated rather easily. Protege also failed to do anything to the Lt.

Mr. Master, you keep bringing up the fact that it was a What-If, however, aren't you the one that has pointed out time and time again that there is only one Living Tribunal across all possible Marvel Universes?

Originally posted by Soljer

Mr. Master, you keep bringing up the fact that it was a What-If,
however,
aren't you the one that has pointed out time and time again
that there is only one Living Tribunal across all possible Marvel Universes?
Yes.

That doesn't excuse the PIS involved though.


Again:
Originally posted by Mr Master

I mean the LT can casually rip entire Universes from the Multiverse,

but instead,

he decides to attack Korvac indirectly

and with a Sun going Nova to add to the humor?
PIS! ... not surprisingly, "What ifs" are famous for this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Agreed.

The Protege copied the Lt's powers. I dont think the Protege could have defeat the Lt. I still think a kid wit Lt's powers would lose wielding it against the Lt but we will never know. The Source couldnt pull the plug on Proteges power. He couldnt do that to Darkseid. I dont know where you are getting this from?

Agreed. My opinion of the Source went way downhill after I read this comic.

No he didnt. He stood there as Scathan pwned him. Protege was defeated rather easily. Protege also failed to do anything to the Lt.
He got his powers jacked he couldnt do anything he had outside help...hmm sounds so familiar,lt isnt stomping the guy who is responsible for just about everything in dc.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

He got his powers jacked
Not true, Protege copied his power, but no one ever "jacked" his power.
Originally posted by vlaaad12345

he couldnt do anything he had outside help...
It was the LT that absorbed Protege.

Yes, he had help (Scathan)
but you're incorrect when you say "he couldn't do anything."
Originally posted by vlaaad12345

lt isnt stomping the guy who is responsible for just about everything in dc.
There are several cats in Marvel that are responsible for everything,
meaning they erased/collapse everything, then re-created everything anew.

All of them are beneath the LT.

The source is responsible for every power in dc even outside the dc multiverse and that was when he was a greatly weakened state,im not saying lt doesnt win im saying hes not stomping and the point of bringing up protege is everyone keeps bringing up darkseid using the sources power and the new gods against the source...and then he called in orion to deal with darkseid its preety much the exact same situation that it was with protege.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

The source is responsible for every power in dc even outside the dc multiverse and that was when he was a greatly weakened state
Looks interesting.
Originally posted by vlaaad12345

im not saying lt doesnt win im saying hes not stomping and the point of bringing up protege is everyone keeps bringing up darkseid using the sources power and the new gods against the source...and then he called in orion to deal with darkseid its preety much the exact same situation that it was with protege.
I read you friend.

I'm not sayin LT wins either.

I rarely have an opinion on cross-company battles.

My main objective on kmc, is to clear up info concerning Marvel cosmology,
or,
to fill in the onlookers with updates, to intricacies that might've been missed by me or another.

Basically I give perspective for the Marvel side,
then I let the crowd choose.

Yea,Honestly Id say lt wins he is the omniversal judge,but damn hardly anyone gives the source any credit nor do they realize how strong darkseid was as he was in death of the new gods.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes.

That doesn't excuse the PIS involved though.


Again:

PIS! ... not surprisingly, "What ifs" are famous for this.

My mistake. I thought you were trying to write it off as non-canon rather than as PIS.

In that case, continue. I'm not much of one for omnipotent vs. omnipotent fights. .

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Many here put the source above Michael and Lucifer. If that's true, then maybe the source can win. But my hunch tells me the LT.

Is the source above Mike and Lucy?

I wanna say yes but I'm not sure with the current Source.


As for the fight, LT would win. Darkseid was able to undermine the Source during their encounter. The Source predicted that Darkseid would pull something and had Orion as a back up plan. However, the Source didn't know what Darkseid's plan was exactly until Darkseid drank the Soul Fire Project and detailed his plan after capturing the Source. The LT, however, knew the outcome of Warlock's trial, which could be useful when be are infinite in powers.

Other reasons include:

1. Source is infallible being (not saying LT isn't either but Source is exactly LT or Presence at this point)
2. 3 Old Head Gods separated the Source originally
3. I have my doubts that the quantified powers of the New Gods is greater than LT or Lucifer beings.

The source isn't the Presence. I don't know it's relation to the presence. But it can't be the presence itself. I think Mike and Lucy are above the source.

Somehow the Source is over LT but then loses to Darkseid who had trouble with Superman and his pal Jimmy.

The DC uber cosmics tend to have bad showings. I wonder how they could let that happen?

LT FTW

Originally posted by King Kandy
Somehow the Source is over LT but then loses to Darkseid who had trouble with Superman and his pal Jimmy.
Cause that was darkseid with the sources and new gods powers amirite,your dumb,cause new gods in the 4th world and when they are on earth are at the same power level right.

I know. That was my point. He had the powers of the source but still had problems with Superman and Jimmy.

Your ****ing dumb,he didnt have the sources power on earth,nor did he have the new gods thats what he was trying to get from jimmy.

Not to mention that he ran away from Orion...

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Your ****ing dumb,he didnt have the sources power on earth,nor did he have the new gods thats what he was trying to get from jimmy.

Stop insulting people, jeez.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Stop insulting people, jeez.
Quanchi and kandy aren't people.

Reported.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Quanchi and kandy aren't people.

Because they disagree with you?

Originally posted by fangirl101
Well now, the source powers EVERYTHING. And that was at half strength. The LT could not beat protege. The source would simply pull the plug on Protege's power where he a DC character. Rediculous stomp would be over estimating the LT IMO.

okay... if i remember right lt couldn't or wouldn't beat protege ofor whatever reason...

but a celestial could...?

ie celestials > LT??

which means celestials are #1 in marvel?

Kandy knows alot about comics

Quan likes Thanos. Thanos will always win

Fine to disagree, but don't insult

The only Celestial who = LT is Scathan

LT = Scathan>Eternity

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Because they disagree with you?
Because they are known trolls who never know what they are talking about?or could it be the blatant lies hes spreading in this thread.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Because they are known trolls who never know what they are talking about?or could it be the blatant lies hes spreading in this thread.

What lies are these friend?

That would be him saying that the darkseid in countdown that fought jimmy was source amped when he wasnt,he didnt even have the new gods powers thats why he was after jimmy.

Hmmm, well, you're right about that. Perhaps he just had the wrong information?

Not really,he like quan likes to bend things in favor of marvel alot.

LT. I think the Source is more on the level of Eternity or something.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Not really,he like quan likes to bend things in favor of marvel alot.

Just ignore them if you think all they do is troll.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
That would be him saying that the darkseid in countdown that fought jimmy was source amped when he wasnt,he didnt even have the new gods powers thats why he was after jimmy. He didnt have the new gods power permanently. But he was tapping into them. Once he killed jimmy he would possess them solely.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown3p20.jpg

Right here is when they both lost the amp because Palmer destroyed the soul battery thus cutting off both their connections to these awesome powers. As you can see immediately afterwards Ds shrinks.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown2p07.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown2p08.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's his ultimate judgement in a "What if"
where the writers couldn't allow LT to stop Korvac,
because the story was about Korvac erasing that reality with the UN.

(imo, LT should've never been there)

The Earth remained unharmed
because Death aided Korvac somehow,
so the Sun going Nova was in-effective.

Meh, the whole crap was PIS!

I mean the LT can casually rip entire Universes from the Multiverse,
but instead, he decides to attack Korvac indirectly
and with a Sun going Nova to add to the humor? Actually, making the sun go nova was a direct attack on LT's part, as he was actively trying to destroy the earth . After this "ultimate punishment" failed, LT disconnected that universe from the multiverse, indirectly ending Korvac's threat.

PIS or not, and as funny as it may be, it's still a canonical showing for LT.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree, he's had better performances,
but there is no evidence of any kind that the LT was upgraded,
and we both already know this. I'm not saying there's any evidence that LT's been 'upgraded', or somesuch. However, if one were to look at LT from '82, who referred to making a star go nova as his "ultimate punishment" - then fast forward to '97, when he's casually holding twin megaverses. One would be inclined to believe he's written to be a whole lot more powerful/impressive nowadays.

That's all I'm getting at.

vlaaad12345, please stop with the bashing.

Soon as kandy and quanchi stop with the trolling.

They're actually debating. Using referesnces as evidence ...

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didnt have the new gods power permanently. But he was tapping into them. Once he killed jimmy he would possess them solely.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown3p20.jpg

Right here is when they both lost the amp because Palmer destroyed the soul battery thus cutting off both their connections to these awesome powers. As you can see immediately afterwards Ds shrinks.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown2p07.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown2p08.jpg

Darkseid while battling Jimmy was not amped, he lost control of the powers inside Olsen and beat Olsen to get them back, shows how powerful DS really is and besides Olsen is just a human with the those powers and not used to them. And Darkseid does not shrink because he "lost the powers" he never had them in the fight and used his own powers. Darkseid started to shrink cause Palmer started to and DS wanted to "send him away" by looking him straight in the eye's, sorta down on his own level and do it, then of course Orion shows up

And why do they call it the Soul Battery? He calls it that to keep himself (DS) alive while understanding the Equation... btw still not much is known about The Source but what we do know is that it's responsible for nearly everything...

Originally posted by Astner
They're actually debating. Using referesnces as evidence ...
No they arent,they are making false claims,refusing to listen to reason and twisting things in favor of a marvel character/downgrading a dc character as much as they can just like any other thread,the shit kandy has said is 100% false and quan makes no points at all.

Originally posted by kevdude
Darkseid while battling Jimmy was not amped, he lost control of the powers inside Olsen and beat Olsen to get them back, shows how powerful DS really is and besides Olsen is just a human with the those powers and not used to them. And Darkseid does not shrink because he "lost the powers" he never had them in the fight and used his own powers. Darkseid started to shrink cause Palmer started to and DS wanted to "send him away" by looking him straight in the eye's, sorta down on his own level and do it, then of course Orion shows up

And why do they call it the Soul Battery? He calls it that to keep himself (DS) alive while understanding the Equation... btw still not much is known about The Source but what we do know is that it's responsible for nearly everything... He still had control of the powers inside of jimmy. My scan explains why Jimmy lost his size. Palmer pulled the soul battery out of him. Darkseid still had access to this soul battery as he himself implanted it within Olsen. When it was destroyed darkseid thus lost the connection to the new gods energies. This explains why he lost his size as soon as the soul battery was destroyed.

The first scan explains how Darkseid controlled when and where Olsen used his powers.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown3p08.jpg

The second scan shows that Palmer destroyed that control over Olsens powers that Darkseid had.

This mean Olsen could control them on his own. Darkseid still had access but couldnt control Olsen as he had in the past.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He still had control of the powers inside of jimmy. My scan explains why Jimmy lost his size. Palmer pulled the soul battery out of him. Darkseid still had access to this soul battery as he himself implanted it within Olsen. When it was destroyed darkseid thus lost the connection to the new gods energies. This explains why he lost his size as soon as the soul battery was destroyed.

The first scan explains how Darkseid controlled when and where Olsen used his powers.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/Countdown3p08.jpg

The second scan shows that Palmer destroyed that control over Olsens powers that Darkseid had.

This mean Olsen could control them on his own. Darkseid still had access but couldnt control Olsen as he had in the past.

Wrong again, picking and choosing scans just to try to support your theories is not going to work. Darkseid himself says "I don't know how control of the POWER inside you has been PRIED from my grasp, but no matter, I WILL still kill you and the very ESSENCE of the New Gods will FLOW into your corpse into me". Do I need to put up the scan? Kyle is amazed at how big DS is and wonders how hes able to do that, and Donna just says "How could you be surprised Kyle, he's freaking Darkseid". He's a god and a powerful one at that...

The source for the win

Originally posted by kevdude
Wrong again, picking and choosing scans just to try to support your theories is not going to work. Darkseid himself says "I don't know how control of the POWER inside you has been PRIED from my grasp, but no matter, I WILL still kill you and the very ESSENCE of the New Gods will FLOW into your corpse into me". Do I need to put up the scan? Kyle is amazed at how big DS is and wonders how hes able to do that, and Donna just says "How could you be surprised Kyle, he's freaking Darkseid". He's a god and a powerful one at that... I put up a scan showing how Darkseid lost his control. Darkseid didnt know Palmer was the one who over rode and severed his control over Olsen. Thats why he made this comment. He could tap into the new gods power but didnt permanently have the power or the essence if you will until he had killed Olsen. Before he could ctonriol when Olsen used his powers but not after Palmer screwed around. He later destroyed the soul battery thus cutting off these powers from Darkseid and when he pulled it out of Olsen, Olsen lost his powers.

Kyle's comments had nothing to do with what actually was happening. I think his comments meant he is Darkseid and we shouldnt be surprised at all because of his reputation.


Dont you realize that when Palmer came out with the soul battery and took it from Olsen that Olsen shrunk. The reason Darkseid hadnt shrunk yet is because he could still access powers from it. He didnt have the powers into his essence yet and needed to kill Olsen with the soul battery intact.

Originally posted by Galan007

Actually, making the sun go nova was a direct attack on LT's part, as he was actively trying to destroy the earth . After this "ultimate punishment" failed, LT disconnected that universe from the multiverse, indirectly ending Korvac's threat.
If you say so.

But imo, not really an opinion actually,
a direct attack would be LT attacking Korvac,
instead of LT making a Sun go Nova, to attack Korvac, who's aided by Death.

It was the Nova/Sun that attacked Korvac, not the LT.
Originally posted by Galan007

PIS or not, and as funny as it may be, it's still a canonical showing for LT.
PIS without a doubt.


Silly "What ifs."

Hey,
I can rip entire Universes and discard them into impenetrable barriers,
but hey,
I'm just gonna make the local Sun go Nova to beat you. dontgetit

Hey, the UN can erase you and your entire Universe from existence,
but I (LT), who am >>>> UN ... can't affect you. durlaugh

==============================

Don't get me wrong brother G,
I'm not saying it didn't happen,
but it was 100% PIS in the end.

Despite being silly, its one of my favorite What Ifs

We all know LT>Death

Back on topic...LT FTW

Originally posted by Mr Master
It was the Nova/Sun that attacked Korvac, not the LT.LT's "ultimate punishment" was intended to wipe out the earth. That's why he made the sun go nova. After that failed, LT disconnected that reality, because he apparently couldn't do anything else to stop Korvac, back then.

Anyhow, what I was getting at is, out of those 2 feats, one was more direct than the other.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Don't get me wrong brother G,
I'm not saying it didn't happen,
but it was 100% PIS in the end. Damn your edits!!

Anyhow, I know that event smelt of PIS - but it was a canonical LT showing.

Originally posted by guy222

We all know LT>Death
We all know LT > Death/Korvac and the UN combined, then as now,
but not in a "What if" apparently.

Which is why I don't particularly enjoy using them,
unless the thread concerns a "What if" incident.

I wouldn't reference a What If

Its What If. What would happen outside of continuity

Saying that there have been some funny stories

Originally posted by Galan007

LT's "ultimate punishment" was intended to wipe out the earth.
That's why he made the sun go nova. After that failed, LT disconnected that reality, because he apparently couldn't do anything else to stop Korvac, back then.
In 1967, (15 years before that "What if" PIS)
the LT was going to destroy Earth 616 with a gesture,
after he one shotted Zom who actually unbalanced the Multiverse inadvertently.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4540/lt1kd3.th.jpg


Dr Strange acknowledges the LT can destroy Earth 616 with a gesture:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3997/lt2oo2.th.jpg


That's the real LT, about to truly attack the Earth directly with his own power,
he doesn't need a silly Sun going Nova to attack/destroy the Earth,
he can do it with his own power, with a gesture in fact.
Originally posted by Galan007

You keep mentioning this event taking place in "What If"
as if that somehow dampers what went on.
I just proved it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's the real LT, about to truly attack the Earth directly with his own power,
he doesn't need a silly Sun going Nova to attack/destroy the Earth,
he can do it with his own power, with a gesture in fact.I didn't see LT directly attack anything. I saw Strange say LT could destroy earth if he wanted.

In the What If, we actually see LT's "ultimate judgement" fail.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I just proved it. You proved that Strange said LT could destroy earth, back then.

However, none of this makes what happened in the What If, any less canonical. If we are to disregard LT in that issue, we must also disregard LT's "I exist in all multiverses simultaneously", aura.

evillaugh

Originally posted by quanchi112
I put up a scan showing how Darkseid lost his control. Darkseid didnt know Palmer was the one who over rode and severed his control over Olsen. Thats why he made this comment. He could tap into the new gods power but didnt permanently have the power or the essence if you will until he had killed Olsen. Before he could ctonriol when Olsen used his powers but not after Palmer screwed around. He later destroyed the soul battery thus cutting off these powers from Darkseid and when he pulled it out of Olsen, Olsen lost his powers.

Kyle's comments had nothing to do with what actually was happening. I think his comments meant he is Darkseid and we shouldnt be surprised at all because of his reputation.


Dont you realize that when Palmer came out with the soul battery and took it from Olsen that Olsen shrunk. The reason Darkseid hadnt shrunk yet is because he could still access powers from it. He didnt have the powers into his essence yet and needed to kill Olsen with the soul battery intact.

So let me see DS had the power and didn't have it all at the same time? Can't make up your mind? When the New Gods powers was taken away from DS he was small then grew in size to battle Jimmy "You want the power I got inside me Darkseid?" Noting DS does not have the power and his connection to Jimmy is stopped. Then notice that Ray Palmer unplugs the Soul Battery from Jimmy and he begins shrinking, if DS was still leaching power from Jimmy at the time Darkseid would have shrunk as well but didn't, ONLY when the battery was totally destroyed and Ray Palmer was shrinking down to an atom to try to hide from Darkseid did he begin shrinking and wanted to take out Ray personally.. Keep up Q

Originally posted by Galan007

I didn't see LT directly attack anything.
I saw Strange say LT could destroy earth if he wanted.
The LT was about to destroy the Earth with a thought. (an incantation)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4540/lt1kd3.th.jpg

Dr Strange talked him out of it.

So of course he didn't destroy it,
but it proves he could've with his own power instead of using a Nova Sun (senseless)
as Dr Strange stated,
"need I more proof that the LT possess limitless power,
power which would destroy the Earth with but a nod?"
Originally posted by Galan007

In the What If, we actually see LT's "ultimate judgement" fail.
I see we're now heading towards circles,
let's just disagree then.
Originally posted by Galan007

You proved that Strange said LT could destroy earth, back then.
I proved that the LT was going to destroy the Earth with a thought,
with his own power.

Not indirectly through a silly Sun going Nova.
Originally posted by Galan007

However, none of this makes what happened in the What If, any less canonical. If we are to disregard LT in that issue, we must also disregard LT's "I exist in all multiverses simultaneously", aura.
I think you're mis-understanding me, and that's what's leading to a circle.

I never said it didn't happen.
I said it was PIS, 100% PIS.

Why would the LT need a Sun going Nova to attack Korvac,
when he could've attacked Korvac himself,
as in,
blasting Korvac,
as in imploding the Galaxy that Earth & Korvac were in,
as in,
meh, so many options.

I'll tell ya why,

PIS!

Thought this one was funny:Originally posted by Mr Master
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3997/lt2oo2.th.jpg "As the million Galaxies are under my keeping."

The million Galaxies under LT's keeping, back then is a whole lot < the infinite number of infinite multiverses he keeps, now. So by that alone we can certainly deduce that LT's power has certainly expanded, and his role become much larger, in recent times.

Anyhow, the whole reason I started posting here is because LT's a lot more impressive nowadays, then he was decades ago. That much I'm sure you can agree with.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thought this one was funny: "As the million Galaxies are under my keeping."
The million Galaxies under LT's keeping, back then is a whole lot < the infinite number of infinite multiverses he keeps, now. So by that alone we can certainly deduce that LT's power has certainly expanded, and his role become much larger, in recent times.


Heh.

Heh, huh, ha.
Originally posted by Galan007

Thought this one was funny: "As the million Galaxies are under my keeping."

The million Galaxies under LT's keeping, back then is a whole lot < the infinite number of infinite multiverses he keeps, now. So by that alone we can certainly deduce that LT's power has certainly expanded, and his role become much larger, in recent times.
Pick a winner:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6590/lt3nl8.th.jpg

"When Zom was unleashed,
the very framework of infinity was rent asunder"


Infinity then, infinity now.

Originally posted by Galan007

Anyhow, the whole reason I started posting here is because LT's a lot more impressive nowadays, then he was decades ago. That much I'm sure you can agree with.
They only seem more impressive because the Marvel Universe has grown,
so obviously,
they have more territory to play with,
making feats seem more grand.

But all of Marvel, is all of Marvel.

Sise-Neg (1972) is credited with re-creating the SAME Marvel Universe,
that Entropy/Genis recreated in 2002,
that Thanos re-created in 2003,
and that the Alien Entity re-created in 2006.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Heh, huh, ha.

Pick a winner:

Infinity then, infinity now. Could've been a million galaxies contained within said infinity *shrug*. Either way, I'ze just going by what LT personally stated, in that scan you posted.

Originally posted by Mr Master
They only seem more impressive because the Marvel Universe has grown,
so obviously,
they have more territory to play with,
making feats seem more grand. If you ask me, calling one's ultimate punishment, making a star go nova, is a lot less impressive than holding twin megaverses in the palm of one's hand. Just saying.

Originally posted by Galan007

Could've been a million galaxies contained within said infinity *shrug*. Either way, I'ze just going by what LT personally stated, in that scan you posted.

They contradict each other,
which is why I said, pick a winner, (as in, choose which one to accept)

Imo, the Universes had a limited amount of galaxies, (million or whatever)

Cause there was definitely a Multiverse then.

The Ancient One sent Dr Strange to a far away Universe
outside the 616 Reality to find Zom:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2626/uni1ja2.th.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6258/uni2yq1.th.jpg
Originally posted by Galan007

If you ask me, calling one's ultimate punishment, making a star go nova, is a lot less impressive than holding twin megaverses in the palm of one's hand. Just saying.
I agree.

But if you ask me,
the UN erasing Korvac when the LT couldn't affect him,
is 100% PIS.

The LT, who was a Multiversal power,
with power to rip off entire Universes and discard them within impenetrable barriers,
needing to use a Sun going nova to attack someone,
is also 100% PIS.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree.

But if you ask me,
the UN erasing Korvac when the LT couldn't affect him,
is 100% PIS.

The LT, who was a Multiversal power,
with power to rip off entire Universes and discard them within impenetrable barriers,
needing to use a Sun going nova to attack someone,
is also 100% PIS. To me, the difference is plain and simply, funny.

Originally posted by Galan007

To me, the difference is plain and simply, funny.
Splendid, ultimately we found a way to agree. cheers

Always a pleasure discussing a matter with a true debater.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Splendid, ultimately we found a way to agree. cheers

Always a pleasure discussing a matter with a true debater.

before you guys start blowing each other .. i just like to say "wear Sunscreen"

So basically the LT's power flucuated from the 60's to now? Could this also be held true when the Beyonder first came on the scene?

LT.

What's the Source's feats, by the way?

The Living Tribunal control all Multiverses simotaniously, held 2 Megaverses on the palm of his hand and prevented the Infinity Gems to work in unision.

Originally posted by Astner
What's the Source's feats, by the way?

The Living Tribunal control all Multiverses simotaniously, held 2 Megaverses on the palm of his hand and prevented the Infinity Gems to work in unision.

The source's feats include the Godwave which powered every super powered being and diety and god in DC. It also supplies all of the power of the quantum field, the oan battery, and the speed force amongst everything else. It was powerful enough to defy the will of the spectre hal jordan. And this was all at half strength. It also recently just remade all of the new gods into all Galactus level beings.

Originally posted by kevdude
So let me see DS had the power and didn't have it all at the same time? Can't make up your mind? When the New Gods powers was taken away from DS he was small then grew in size to battle Jimmy "You want the power I got inside me Darkseid?" Noting DS does not have the power and his connection to Jimmy is stopped. Then notice that Ray Palmer unplugs the Soul Battery from Jimmy and he begins shrinking, if DS was still leaching power from Jimmy at the time Darkseid would have shrunk as well but didn't, ONLY when the battery was totally destroyed and Ray Palmer was shrinking down to an atom to try to hide from Darkseid did he begin shrinking and wanted to take out Ray personally.. Keep up Q He could tap into the power as the scans clearly showed. But when the soul battery was destroyed he couldnt tap into these powers again.


Darkseid wasnt leeching power from jimmy but from the soul battery. You do realize the soul battery is what gave jimmy his powers. The soul battery was where the power was. When it was taken out of jimmy Ds still had access to it. But jimmy lost his powers as it was out of his body. Then when it was crushed darkseid lost the new gods powers.

You are entitled to your own opinion.

Supposdley, the Worlogog is also a fragment of the Source, and considering what it can do, that sure is impressive.

Originally posted by fangirl101

So basically the LT's power flucuated from the 60's to now?
No.

The LT has always been the most powerful entity in Marvel,
aside from the anomalies which were classic Beyonder & Molecule Man, which no longer exist.
Protege was heading towards that anomalous state, but he no longer exists either.
Originally posted by fangirl101

Could this also be held true when the Beyonder first came on the scene?
The Prime Multiverse is where the majority of all the power in Marvel is located.

The LT calls it "our Universe" ... indeed, it is the sector he surveys primarily.

The infinite Multiverse of 1984-85, (all of canon Marvel at the time)
is nearly identical to the infinite Prime Multiverse of now, and since.

From the Prime Multiverse the Omniversal powers have risen,
from the Prime Multiverse All Reality can be collapsed.

The Cosmic Hierarchy is virtually the same since 1985,
only addition was Infinity, (Space) who Eternity (Time) used to embody solely.

=========================

btw.

There are NO Eternity/Infinity counter-parts outside the Prime Multiverse,
in fact,
there is no cosmic hierarchy of any kind.

When the entire Marvel Universe is on the line,
only the powers of the Prime Multiverse will come to defend it,
cause again,
that's where basically all the power of Marvel is concentrated in, or revolves around.

(with the exception of the Brothers who are never seen)

Originally posted by fangirl101
It also recently just remade all of the new gods into all Galactus level beings. I'm curious where/how you gathered this?

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm curious where/how you gathered this?

Because grant morrison said so. Oh and Because No one on earth knows who the New gods are but Shiloh Norman, it would seem that all other New Gods appearances just aren't canon anymore. at least not to the likes of Superman and the Justice League. The source completely has the power to simply do a Do over.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Because grant morrison said so. M'kay.. Just making sure we reminded anyone still reading this thread that the new, New Gods haven't done anything remotely close to Galactus level, to date.

Originally posted by Galan007
M'kay.. Just making sure we reminded anyone still reading this thread that the new, New Gods haven't done anything remotely close to Galactus level, to date.

well, if the New gods are the same as they were in seven soldiers, as it appears, then DS has done that and more. Even granny goodness before she was killed had pwned the entire greek pantheon.

Originally posted by fangirl101
well, if the New gods are the same as they were in seven soldiers, as it appears, then DS has done that and more. Even granny goodness before she was killed had pwned the entire greek pantheon. If they are written that way, sure. Thing is, we don't know that yet.

Originally posted by Galan007
If they are written that way, sure. Thing is, we don't know that yet.
Yes we do. I've known for a Looooong time now.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Yes we do. I've known for a Looooong time now. Here's what I'm saying..

Some might have a good idea that the new, New Gods will be uber - but so far, they've done nothing noteworthy, on panel. That much isn't even debatable.

Originally posted by Galan007
Here's what I'm saying..

Some might have a good idea that the new, New Gods will be uber - but so far, they've done nothing noteworthy, on panel. That much isn't even debatable.

Well grant has hinted that hints can be found in seven soldiers. So I'm Taking it that seven soldiers is the prelude to FC.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Well grant has hinted that hints can be found in seven soldiers. So I'm Taking it that seven soldiers is the prelude to FC. I think so also. T'would be an awesome twist.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think so also. T'would be an awesome twist.
Grant is so rediculously good at foreshadowing. But then he'll twist something around and we'll all be talking about it for like months or even years afterwards trying to piece it all together. lol. I'm still trying to wrap my head around JLA 1million and rock of ages.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Grant is so rediculously good at foreshadowing. But then he'll twist something around and we'll all be talking about it for like months or even years afterwards trying to piece it all together. lol.

Hell, he had Metron foreshadowing DotNG back in JLA v3 .

Originally posted by fangirl101
I'm still trying to wrap my head around JLA 1million and rock of ages. Both stories = droolio

Originally posted by Galan007


Hell, he had Metron foreshadowing DotNG back in JLA v3 .

Both stories = droolio
I wonder what he's going to do with that last mother box. I wonder if it will be like that UN type weapon in Rock of ages. He also likes the worlogog alot. I can see DC's cosmos' about to get alot bigger and more defined.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I wonder what he's going to do with that last mother box. I wonder if it will be like that UN type weapon in Rock of ages. The Genesis Box was quite a powerful trinket, indeed.

Originally posted by fangirl101
He also likes the worlogog alot. I can see DC's cosmos' about to get alot bigger and more defined. The Worlogog is my favorite DC artifact. It is the IG's equal in almost every way, imo.

As for DC's cosmos' being more defined - all we can do it hope, lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
The Genesis Box was quite a powerful trinket, indeed.

The Worlogog is my favorite DC artifact. It is the IG's equal in almost every way, imo.

As for DC's cosmos' being more defined - all we can do it hope, lol.

Indeed. It's been all over the place for some time. A literal mess. We dont know how powerful the Guardians really are. Or the monitors. How many myx's are there? Which is the most powerful? The Spectre? Up and down and all around hard to gage. Krona? back from being an egg? Superman and Wonder Woman and Batman are cosmic Corner Stones? I'm sure this is all going to be cleared up by Grant. I'm praying.

Why does the cosmic chain have to be defined? That's what I like about DCU abstracts, because that's how it should be. Would be pretty boring if everything was laid out.

Originally posted by Galan007
If they are written that way, sure. Thing is, we don't know that yet. I agree.

Originally posted by cloud102
Why does the cosmic chain have to be defined? That's what I like about DCU abstracts, because that's how it should be. Would be pretty boring if everything was laid out.

I'm not sure what you mean by defined? Like how Marvel abstract represent something? They all have a purpose?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I'm not sure what you mean by defined? Like how Marvel abstract represent something? They all have a purpose?

No, I mean by who is more powerful than who.

hmmm, ok.

Grant Morrison did say that Seven Soldiers happened around the same time with Infinite Crisis, thus it's a tie-in of sort.