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I think my choice is obvious.

Darth Nihilus

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
―Kreia

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

"When my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died."

It would more than likely be Exar Kun since Ragnos is unknown, but otherwise I would go with Ragnos. Kun for sure has more abilities than Nihilus, and this has been proven.

No he hasn't.

Until he moves fleets with his TK or drains entire planets, he's not even close to Nihilus.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
No he hasn't.

Until he moves fleets with his TK or drains entire planets, he's not even close to Nihilus.

Let me use your logic. Until Nihilus rules the sith empire untouched for over a century, has titanic force abilities, can freeze the entire senate chamber, and pump a constant energy beam, he's not even close to Kun or Ragnos.

If you tthink ruling a Sith Empire somehow, having exotic Force abilities, freezing time in the Senate chamber and pumping a constant beam of energy from an amulet is more impressive than consuming the energy from an entire planet...then I can't help you.

Yes, it is, you lose.

OK, wait.

Is this thread talking about who could defeat who in combat, or who in general has more stronger abilities with the Force?

Nihilus would be THE strongest, since he can just kill life using the Force. But in terms of magnitude of power, Ragnos. He may be rather unknown, but honestly, ruling over an empire of bloodthirsty, back-stabbing Dark Siders for over a century... UNOPPOSED, is f*ckin' ridiculous.

Kun may be powerful, but take away that amulet, compare his empire to the Ancient's, and compare Ragnos' exotic ubertastical (overblown) abilities to his, then freezing the Senate (Senators....oooohhhhh!), isn't that great of a feat. In comparison that is.

Nihilus=1 technique. Ragnos= >1. Kun= >1

Kun's amulet shouldn't even be discussed here TG, since it was only a small part of his power. You forgot his "black lightning", his senate stasis field, his force drain as a spirit, etc.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nihilus=1 technique. Ragnos= >1. Kun= >1

Kun's amulet shouldn't even be discussed here TG, since it was only a small part of his power. You forgot his "black lightning", his senate stasis field, his force drain as a spirit, etc. black lighting? And is vader superior to nihilus in overall force mastery? I think so

Anyway for 2nd strongest sith i will have to go with Exar kun, sith revan and last but not least vader/bane

Nihilus = Drainining planets TK'ing fleets, mindraping and supporting the life of the people on the Ravager...while slowly draining them. That's something you can't disprove. Even if he doesn't hold the ship together, he does supply all the people on it the ability to live and function.



Ragnos = 0. He's done nothing.



Kun < TK'ing a fleet out of a gravity well.

You seriously are't running on fumes, DS. Your belief Nihilus has only one power and nothing more is utterly baseless and ridiculous.



.............

That's all I can say.

Why the hell does shooting out an amulet blast or paralyzing a Senate outweigh eating planets?



Stronger abilities in The Force.

Which puts Nihilus above Kun or Sadow or anyone except Sidious.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I think my choice is obvious.

Darth Nihilus

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
―Kreia



No other Sith, except Sidious, has even come close to this level of power.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Kun < TK'ing a fleet out of a gravity well.
Well kun froze hunders and thousands of senators in the senate



Originally posted by Nikkolas

Why the hell does shooting out an amulet blast or paralyzing a Senate outweigh eating planets? Because nihilus struck from a distance, had they known earlier that his ship is coming, the military will blow his ass into space

Originally posted by Nikkolas


Stronger abilities in The Force.
Then it would be kun who with the help of kyp tooled
a post DE luke by using the entire dark side of one planet to back him up

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Which puts Nihilus above Kun or Sadow or anyone except Sidious. Nah, kun > nihilus and so does any elite yuuzhan vong, the fallanasi

Up close and personal combat, Kun tools Nihilus. If given time from a distance, Nihlius takes out Kun.

If you meant hundreds of thousands, you're wrong. Lightsnake said the Senate had at its most 4,000 people in it.



I thought they did know he was coming... I'll look that up.

And I'm not talking about his uber-Force drain. More the one he used on Sion in teh cut stuff and tried to use on the Exile. There seems to be a difference as he doesn't speak using that one but from Marr's words, he says something when he destroyed Katarr and that implies it requires an incantation or voicing.



Kyp definitely has more raw potential than Kun even when he was alive.

And do we even know in what proportion that attack was? Do we know how much of it was Kun and how much was Kyp?



He could simply do what I've already said and create a vacuum around there head or destroy them with objects using TK.

The fallanasi...when they loop out of The Force, they'r eimmune to Force attacks? Even being bludgened by heavy objects?



Nihilus can use his drain instantly.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
If you meant hundreds of thousands, you're wrong. Lightsnake said the Senate had at its most 4,000 people in it.
No he didn't, and the senate had tens of thousands of people in there, nicel ie.




The cut scene with Sion was non canon, try again.




That's a matter of opinion which is frankly, wrong.


Uh, it was Kun's technique, Kyp clearly didn't know it. A lot of ancient sith teachings died with Kun.




Uhuh sure he. And Jacen Solo can get into his head and blow his brain up.. riiight.


Yup



Nihilus can use his drain instantly.

I've never heard that.

And I'll ask LS. He's who I heard it from.



....that's why, ya know, I kinda said ALSO the bit with the Exile... I was citing two examples. And I even said outright it was cut.

You're desperate for ammo.



No blackholes moved by Exar Kun.



They were both attacking Luke.



The hell are you talking about?

I'm talking about Nihilus vs. a Vong. And it's a canon use of The Force by a weak, battere and desperate Tahiri (uber-Force user...?) to be able to create a vacuum around a Vong's head.

I'd dare say Nihilus can do it if he had knowledge of the Vong's immunity to the Force...which doesn't exist since a Force technique killed them. in fact, who ever said they are immune to Force attacks? We have a Force attack on them and killing them instantly. Why wouldn't plain old Force lightning destroy them?



I highly doubt it.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
If you meant hundreds of thousands, you're wrong. Lightsnake said the Senate had at its most 4,000 people in it.
According to advent, they had hunderds and thousands

Originally posted by Nikkolas

I thought they did know he was coming... I'll look that up.
They dont. Visas stated in the comic that they are unaware that they are going to die




Originally posted by Nikkolas

Kyp definitely has more raw potential than Kun even when he was alive. Kyp wasnt strong at that time, kun > kyp as of that time

Originally posted by Nikkolas

And do we even know in what proportion that attack was? Do we know how much of it was Kun and how much was Kyp? Kun uses entire darkside of the planet against luke. As yodas greatest feat was shifting the entire dark side in the planet to one cae,


Originally posted by Nikkolas

He could simply do what I've already said and create a vacuum around there head or destroy them with objects using TK.
And kun cannot start an amulet blast before nihilus does? Nihilus is a moron, he didnt try to kill mandalore or the exile when they walked up to him, He merely stunned them so what makes you think that nihilus will attack on sight?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

The fallanasi...when they loop out of The Force, they'r eimmune to Force attacks? Even being bludgened by heavy objects? His drain simply wont work as i was saying

Originally posted by Nikkolas


Nihilus can use his drain instantly. Prove it, while kuns amulet blast will dissintigrate him utterly

Originally posted by Nikkolas




No blackholes moved by Exar Kun.
Right moving a black hole with TK means your uber. Then i guess kyp > sidious because sidious only at most lifted a 19km SSD and buried it in coruscanty with TK

Originally posted by Nikkolas

They were both attacking Luke.
Well i think its actually kun possessed kyp, and Kun amplified kyps power

Kyp with barely any training could guide the Millenium Falcon through the Maw Cluster...

And Kyp had been studying with Exar from what I remember.



And Kyp was attacking Luke also.

So...is there any proof Kun's offense was the main reason Luke was defeated? It's like debating if it was Kyp's own power that pulled the Sun Crusher from the star or if it was the power-up from Kun.



It's like the old samurai movies.

If Nihilus gets the drain, Kun dies. Kun gets amulet blast, Nihilus dies.



Uh...yes he did...that's why he was weakened.

And he was holding the Exile at his mercy from what I could see...



What makes you think Kun will amulet blast on sight?



I don't have to prove it's instant. We see it's instant. When he wanted to use it, he used it.

As I said, drain vs. amulet blast. Whichever comes fastest.



In terms of TK, yes, I'd say Kyp beats Sidious. Do we even have any feats of Force TK from Kun?



I read JA a long time ago so I can't remember but I thought it was pretty vague on just how much was Kyp's power and how much was Exar's. But I'm not sure and I'll readily admit i'm wrong if there's evidence to teh contrary.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Kyp with barely any training could guide the Millenium Falcon through the Maw Cluster... So?
Originally posted by Nikkolas

And Kyp had been studying with Exar from what I remember. So? Kyp still didnt know alot of things that kun knew, unless you want to provide a source which by the way you cant


Originally posted by Nikkolas

And Kyp was attacking Luke also. So? it was kun using kyps body and amplifying his powers
Originally posted by Nikkolas

So...is there any proof Kun's offense was the main reason Luke was defeated? It's like debating if it was Kyp's own power that pulled the Sun Crusher from the star or if it was the power-up from Kun.
Partly, but as i said its kun using kyp

Originally posted by Nikkolas

It's like the old samurai movies.

If Nihilus gets the drain, Kun dies. Kun gets amulet blast, Nihilus dies.
Exactly

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Uh...yes he did...that's why he was weakened. Right, after trying to intimidate the exile
Originally posted by Nikkolas

And he was holding the Exile at his mercy from what I could see... He couldnt do shit to harm her, and from what i could see... An average force user tooled him



Originally posted by Nikkolas

What makes you think Kun will amulet blast on sight? Because nihilus is a threat

Originally posted by Nikkolas


I don't have to prove it's instant. We see it's instant. When he wanted to use it, he used it. Really? Iv seen force storm, we have seen its instant, When sidious wanted to use it, he used it, How does that sound? Oh right and banes lightning storm also took time but by going what you just said, it is instant also, Prove up or shut up which you have yet to do
Originally posted by Nikkolas

As I said, drain vs. amulet blast. Whichever comes fastest. Agreeble


Originally posted by Nikkolas

In terms of TK, yes, I'd say Kyp beats Sidious. Do we even have any feats of Force TK from Kun? No we dont, but the fact remains that we have never seen nihilus use TK to kill an opponent other than choke, And sidious > kyp by the way. Kyp just did TK on a larger scale and thus doesnt mean he > sidious

Which has he yet to do, prove up or shut up?

so much stupidity from this Nikkolas

You're right I can't because I don't own the book.

But I never said he knew all the things Kun did.

But it's not like Kyp was a novice with no knowledge whatsoever. I was just saying that he obviously learned a thing or two from Kun.



Quote?



He didn't try to harm her. He tried to drain her. He had her held all loopy in some weird thing around her body, said some crap, stared at her, then drained her. He didn't do anything else. From the way she was wobbling and doing nothing, it looked like he could have easily pulled out his saber and cut her head off.

And as for "tooling" we don't know how the first part of th ebattle went except for Visas saying "ugh...he's too powerful."

Old Lady: Where's the tooling?



Then...maybe, ya know, he'd do something else?

He has a lot of abilities. He's alsoa a ompitent lightsaber duelist. He might try to do melee before anything.

I've also heard a lot about Kun's overconfidence.



Palpatine's Force Storms took about a second or two, IIRC. Escape argued that point.



This is very uncalled for behavior considering you were arguing exactly what I'm arguing now a while ago. I was just looking at the NJO Luke vs. Nihilus thread.

Prove to me Nihilus was somehow concentrating and preparing his drain on the Exile? All we see is that he talks some, standst there, then whips it out after I thinK Marr says "he doesn't understand" or something like that.



I've argued DE Sidious has a chance against NJO Luke, let alone NJO Kyp. So I'm well-versed in what Palps and Kyp can do. I was simply speaking in terms of TK.

I've backed up every statement I've made in regards to Nihilus' power.

I don't use conjecture to rank him up there in power as you do with Ragnos. I use actual feats and showings.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I've backed up every statement I've made in regards to Nihilus' power.
No you haven't, you've used ridiculous quotes as well as ridiculous logic, which proved nothing.


You use one feat and the rest is due to your fanboyism. Good one. Now please, you're here all day long, get a life.

A quote isn't ridiculous as far as I'm concerned as long as it's not disproven or contradicted.

Now if they had said "Nihilus sneezed out a galaxy" I'd be a bit skeptical. But all we'ere told is he lifted his fleet from Malachor. No contradiction to that. We're also told he spoke and all life died on a planet...no contradiction to that.

So...they aren't ridiculous quotes just because you don't like them.



I've actually mainly used 2 feats. Both supported by quotes.



My life is not the topic at hand. Do not spam and flame, thank you.

You have no argument...Give it up...
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-1/94032/boohoo.jpg

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I think my choice is obvious.

Darth Nihilus

"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
―Kreia

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

"When my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died."

My argument is quotes and statements of Nihilus' power. We have feats and can determine what he can do from said feats.

My argument, in short, is facts. Something someone who supports Ragnos being uber-powerful doesn't seem to grasp. Not speculation or conjecture on what Nihilus can do. Actual facts.

Hey Darth Sexy, when are you actually gonna drop this bullshit?

1. You already know of the force drain, which as you know Nihilus can use to an insane degree, and which Traya labeled as the greatest of all sith teachings.

2. He can summon storms of force lightning, and before you come up with your usual bullshit and say that it's only in gameplay, it's not dependant on gameplay, and doesn't vary from player to player.

3. He was able to dominate the minds of and control his entire crew, and pretty much everybody around him.

4. He could use TK to a pretty insane degree, where he could pull entire fleets out of gravity wells and hold his entire ship together.

5. He knew of a technique that enabled him to transfer his consciousness into his armour, pretty obscure I'd say.

6. He had enough knowledge to fill an entire holocron.

His knowledge base clearly consists of more than 1 technique, so please stop talking rubbish.



I actually find this comment hilarious coming from you, given your 16 PPD, and the fact that you're on this forum the most out of anyone.

Originally posted by Nikkolas


Quote?
He was able to successfully corrupt and partly possess the extraordinarily talented and young Kyp Durron. You fail

Originally posted by Nikkolas

He didn't try to harm her. He tried to drain her. He had her held all loopy in some weird thing around her body, said some crap, stared at her, then drained her. He didn't do anything else. From the way she was wobbling and doing nothing, it looked like he could have easily pulled out his saber and cut her head off. Right and if he cut her up, he cant drain her and when you drain some one you kill some one, Nice logic, He didnt kill her because he wanted to feed on her
Originally posted by Nikkolas

And as for "tooling" we don't know how the first part of th ebattle went except for Visas saying "ugh...he's too powerful." Visas = weaker than nihilus, weaker than a superior = he > you. But in this case, exile, an inferior defeated nihilus
Originally posted by Nikkolas

Old Lady: Where's the tooling? See the above




Originally posted by Nikkolas

He has a lot of abilities. He's alsoa a ompitent lightsaber duelist. He might try to do melee before anything. Not if he stands before a threat, He tooled a jedi master with force grip, didnt pull out his saber there,
Originally posted by Nikkolas

I've also heard a lot about Kun's overconfidence.
And regarding how dangerous nihilus is, Kun will get serious

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Palpatine's Force Storms took about a second or two, IIRC. Escape argued that point. Yes but by argueing by your logic its instant, because we have seen him do it


Originally posted by Nikkolas

This is very uncalled for behavior considering you were arguing exactly what I'm arguing now a while ago. I was just looking at the NJO Luke vs. Nihilus thread. Right and i this time decided to read and backup my knowledge thus following logical assumptions unlike my past when i used to be a nihilus fanboy
Originally posted by Nikkolas

Prove to me Nihilus was somehow concentrating and preparing his drain on the Exile? All we see is that he talks some, standst there, then whips it out after I thinK Marr says "he doesn't understand" or something like that. Prove to me he wasnt, the point is weather it is instant or not, he talked in his language and didnt drain the exile immediately

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Hey Darth Sexy, when are you actually gonna drop this bullshit?
Oh goodie, Noobaris enters the debate.


Traya never labeled it as the greatest of the sith teachings, she's never said anything resembling that, good lie.


Sorry Noobaris, but I know how you like to debate(or rather attempt) with bullshit. Unfortunately for you there's no canon source stating Nihilus knows force lightning so it is a gameplay mechanic, unless Advent states otherwise, since she has all the books detailing all the sith powers. Again, a baseless assumption.


Omgorsh, he controlled non force sensitives by being a wound, WOW!


You mean the one ship he pulled out and that same ship which apparently was intact when he died? This theory has been debunked over and over by myself and Nai, so quit trying.



Except for the fact that you don't know how much knowledge it takes to fill a holocron, and being able to create a holocron doesn't imply you have a lot of knowledge.


Sorry Noobaris, but only 1 technique can label him unique, otherwise he's a sith lord who lost to an average force user.




Actually you would be on this forum more than anybody, but I love the irony.

Yeah, your bs was starting to get annoying, so I thought 'why not?'



Yeah, I was waiting for you to attack something irrelevant, and ignore the point I was making, which was: he knows more than one technique. I'm simply just listing them.



Clearly someone has no idea how canon works. Darth Nihilus knowing lightning isn't something that varies from player to player, and happens each time, no matter what you do, so it's 100% canon.



Yeah, I was waiting for you to attack something irrelevant, and ignore the point I was making, which was: he knows more than one technique. I'm simply just listing them.



Yeah, I was waiting for you to attack something irrelevant, and ignore the point I was making, which was: he knows more than one technique. I'm simply just listing them.



I'm sure it doesn't in Darth Sexy Land. Now please, quit being dumb, who the hell would bother making a holocron and only install a couple of techniques worth of knowledge inside? Darth Revan's holocron for example had enough knowledge to fill the entire BoD archives. The great holocron contained the entire history and knowledge of the Jedi. The whole point of holocrons were to store large amounts of knowledge in small vessels. Darth Nihilus would have filled his holocron with far more than just a few techniques, don't be dumb.



Now now, let's not be changing our stance midway through the debate. Your original assertion was that Darth Nihilus only knew of one technique, not that he only knew one 'unique' technique.



Despite your APPD being almost double mine?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, your bs was starting to get annoying, so I thought 'why not?'
Well you love to lose debates and argue out of your ass and I haven't seen you do it lately so you're long overdue.




I guess my point flew over your head, as it always does. I've already stated that Nihilus knows some basic techniques, yet it was ONE technique that made him unique. Try reading.




Oh really? Please show me where Nihilus uses force lightning, other than possibly, and I mean POSSIBLY using it on you when you fight him. Oh that's right, he doesn't. Welcome to the wonderful world of Logic Noobaris, it's missed you.




Gee lets see, all that was in Nihilus' holocron was, oh wait, there was nothing really relevant in there, was there Noobaris? It's up to you to prove what was in his holocron and to somehow quantify his abilities just BECAUSE he used primitive holocron technology to make one. And seeing as how Nihilus hasn't shown a damn thing other than his ejeet force drain(due to him being a wound), I don't think there would be anything in the holocron other than explaining how he contained himself in his armor. But please Noobaris, humor me with your anti logic.




Good lord Noobaris, reading comprehension. Start at the beginning of the debate.




Possibly, that is if you want everyone to forget your 6+ bans and new names, so it's clear that you've been here a whole of a lot longer than myself. Thanks for the humor Noobaris

Uh huh, and sadly you haven't even taken a break from acting like a dumbass, you just go on and continue doing it, 16 times a day.



Right, now here's what you posted - "Nihilus=1 technique." Now based on the fact that you've argued that he only knows one technique in the past, it's not a fault of mine to assume that that was what you were saying this time. It's quite clearly a lack of elaboration on your part, not a lack of reading comprehension on mine. Anyways, you're still wrong, Nihilus transferring his life into his armour is a technique that's only ever been used by him, so you're wrong, and you know it, otherwise you wouldn't have ignored it in your opening rebuttal.



He does it every time your party faces him in KotOR, it's canon, you're lame, get over it.



What are you talking about? We don't know everything that was in the holocron, and what we do know is hardly irrelevant in respect to the debate we're having Sexy.



Yeah, Nihilus would have to be some kind of moron to bother making a holocron yet only fill it with a couple of techniques. The whole point of holocrons are to carry large amounts of info contained in a small storehouse, so unless Nihilus had a much larger knowledge base than what you're claiming, making the holocron would be entirely pointless, a few scrolls or a datapad would have sufficed otherwise.



Lack of elaboration on your part =/ bad reading comprehension on mine.



Yeah, you would only have a point if I were comparing the amount of posts between us, however I'm not, I'm comparing our average PPD, which is not something that necessarily increases over time, or with more accounts. But please, continue, this is fun, it's been a while since I've had a firsthand view of how much of a moron you are.

It's quite funny to keep hearing about how Nihilu slost to the Exile...it's also quite sad and pathetic, sonsidering how flawed it is.

I've already refuted it but you continue.

And you need to stop saying him being a wound amplified his powers. You have no proof of this.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Uh huh, and sadly you haven't even taken a break from acting like a dumbass, you just go on and continue doing it, 16 times a day.
What's more sad is the fact that after 6 bans and god knows how many posts, you still haven't won a debate.




Wow Noobaris, can you prove it's a technique? Of course not. For all you know it came as "naturally" to him as the force drain as a result of being a wound.




And the old Noobaris who embarasses himself arguing against facts is back! I missed you big boy. Except it's a gameplay mechanic because he can either do it once, a few times, or none at all. Continue the self embarassment.




You claim he is somehow powerful because he developed a holocron. I claim that there's no correlation between the two.




Actually I elaborated quite well when I stated the techniques Kun knew, the techniques Sidious and Sadow knew, and then the technique of Nihilus. And if you learned how to read, you would see that none of the techniques I have mentioned have anything "basic" about them.





Awww Noobaris, parroting what I say to you how cute. I tell you it's fun to see you embarass yourself, you repeat yourself. Since you have no credibility on this forum whatsoever(due to your pathetic logic and constant argument against logic), your posts are humorous as hell. And apparently you know nothing about averaging PPDs out, because if we take all 6 of your banned accounts from the earliest day you registered, to how many posts you have overall until now, I'm more than positive you'll surpass me by miles.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
It's quite funny to keep hearing about how Nihilu slost to the Exile...it's also quite sad and pathetic, sonsidering how flawed it is.

I've already refuted it but you continue.

And you need to stop saying him being a wound amplified his powers. You have no proof of this.

What have you refuted? It's funny how all the piss poor debaters constantly tell themselves they've refuted something. Guess what you fruit medley, it doesn't matter how the exile beat Nihilus, just that he did. If Nihilus had force lightning or force grip, or hell, anything impressive, he would have defeated the exile.

Nihilus is the second strongest. Then comes (in this order) Darth Bane (in his prime), Marka Ragnos and Ekar Kun/Tulak Hord (not sure who's better between those 2). Then it's Revan. Not sure about Jacen, since he apparently had a hard time defeating Aurra Sing (or so I hear).

Originally posted by darthsith19
Nihilus is the second strongest. Then comes (in this order) Darth Bane (in his prime), Marka Ragnos and Ekar Kun/Tulak Hord (not sure who's better between those 2). Then it's Revan. Not sure about Jacen, since he apparently had a hard time defeating Aurra Sing (or so I hear).

Why would Bane be above Ragnos or Kun? And why is Tulak Hord even involved in this considering he's an unknown.

Who said that?


Bane is the Sith'ari, the perfect being, it would only make sense for him to have more potential than anyone else except the Skywalkers. Considering that receiving less than a year of training he was able to nearly best Kas'im in a duel, I can only imagine that in his prime he'd be nearly unstoppable. And Hord is no more unknown than Ragnos is.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Who said that?
Bane is the Sith'ari, the perfect being, it would only make sense for him to have more potential than anyone else except the Skywalkers. Considering that receiving less than a year of training he was able to nearly best Kas'im in a duel, I can only imagine that in his prime he'd be nearly unstoppable. And Hord is no more unknown than Ragnos is.

Bane WOULD be a candidate for the sith'ari, and maybe the most likely candidate but he wasn't a perfect being because he was killed by the jedi. His potential is debatable, although I would say Kun's potential was more than anybody, and maybe even Revan. He almost bested Kas'im in a duel because he knew every move of Kas'im, so the point is moot. That's like saying Obiwan is a saber god because he defeated Anakin, or Anakin sucks because he lost to obiwan. They knew each other perfectly, and Bane still lost. Not to mention that Ragnos, while an unknown, held dominion over the entire sith empire for over a century, which speaks volumes for him considering the sith always challenge for supremacy.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Bane WOULD be a candidate for the sith'ari, and maybe the most likely candidate but he wasn't a perfect being because he was killed by the jedi. Perhaps the prophecy, misread may have been.

A perfect being would never die, so frankly the Sith'ari would be Jesus.

Yeah, and what's more sad than that is the fact that time and again, we have these confrontations, and I'm still not hearing anything new from you. Come on now Darth Sexy, surprise me, come up with some new material, make me proud.



Whether it comes naturally or through time spent learning doesn't change the fact that it's still a technique, and the intelligent assumption to make (something you're not too familiar with) would be that it's what actually made him a wound in a force, rather than being a result of it.



Here's where you're wrong, he does it each time.



Strawman fallacy, you're making this is too easy.

We're arguing whether Nihilus knew more than one unique ability (not whether making a holocron makes Nihilus powerful, silly one), so what we see from the holocron is entirely relevant, as we see that Nihilus knew of at least one other technique that was not known (to our knowledge) by anyone else.



Right, so because all the techniques you mentioned were somewhat special (*gasp* like it couldn't have just been a coincidence!), we automatically have to assume that by 'technique', you mean 'somewhat special technique,' right? Yeah, right, more like it was a total lack of elaboration on your part.



Right, except for the fact that you've never compared our PPDs, so there would be nothing to parrot, so you're (as usual) talking out of your ass.



I can only assume that you can't grasp the concept of averages, seeing as you're constantly acting as if a higher number of posts would absolutely mean without a doubt that there would be a higher PPD (without realising that time factors in). But whatever, I'm used to you acting dumb, it's nothing new to me, which brings me back to what I was saying earlier about you bringing back the same old crap each time. Oh well.

Proof that he was killed by one Jedi? As far as I am aware of, how he did is unknown.

Then would you mind explaining how in less than a year, Bane became a stronger saber duelist than Kun when Kun had been training for his entire life?

The hell-? Prove that Bane knew Kas'im's moves any better than Kas'im knew Bane's. Even though "Parrying his first sequence Bane realized his former Master had always been holding something in reserve? Bane had never before fought against an all-out Kas'im. So your point is moot. Mine, however, still stands.


Yep, and who in that era could have beaten Bane in his prime? Your point is moot since Bane could have done the same thing that Marka did, seeing as the next strongest Sith of Ragnos's "region of terror" was Naga Sadow, who is below Bane as well.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
If you meant hundreds of thousands, you're wrong. Lightsnake said the Senate had at its most 4,000 people in it.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if Lightsnake told you that, he's clearly wrong, my friend.

I'd wonder how that number is even plausible, given the mere size of the housing, and the fact that the building was filled to its seemingly highest capacity:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3339/senaterotundaum0.th.png
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9166/ulicsenate2bop3.th.png

If you look at the sheer monumental size of the structure in comparison to the others, it's obviously the biggest one (in width; the one building is very lean akin to the Space Needle in Seattle). Inside, there are virtually no open seats from the other angles we see, and the number of rows suggests an immense amount of people could be held there. There are far more than four thousand, as I usually say, there's likely hundreds of thousands. Plus, he didn't simply freeze them, he controlled their very motions without any difficulty whatsoever (given he was able to play puppeteer with the current Chancellor, make a speech, and then go on to annihilate his former master in battle).

Also, lol at darthsith trying to act like he's a real debater.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Then comes (in this order) Darth Bane (in his prime), Marka Ragnos and Ekar Kun/Tulak Hord (not sure who's better between those 2).

Marka Ragnos above Exar Kun?

Tulak Hord even on par with Exar Kun?

And, since I know you love to be a quasi intellectual, "this begs for proof".

He had her at his mercy from what I saw.

She's wrapped in some weird thing, wobbling and it looks all too easy for him to just chop her head off.



Visas Marr.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, and what's more sad than that is the fact that time and again, we have these confrontations, and I'm still not hearing anything new from you. Come on now Darth Sexy, surprise me, come up with some new material, make me proud.
I tell you what Noobaris, if you show people you can actually debate and gain some kind of credibility, I'll pay more attention to you, attention whore.




Wrong




As it's been stated time and time again, you fail to comprehend the concept of each and every logical fallacy. If attempting to be a pseudointellectual is your last resort, I chuckle in amusement.


What technique might that be toughpants?




You're right, because I stated force push, force grip, right? OH wait, if I recall correctly, I stated nothing that was ordinary, yet it seems you're the only one who has a problem of grasping this concept.




Hmm lets see. I say something, and you repeat it back to me in a "I know you are but what am I fashion". That's a parrot, in case the species is foreign to your native country.




My my, you really are retarded. You clearly are having a bad case of denial, and you clearly don't understand "averages", nor what I wrote. Since you were THE first one on this forum between the both of us, I would take your FIRST post from the EARLIEST date that you registered to today, understand? Divide the number of posts by the number of days.. Is it still too difficult for you? I would have imagined that you've taken basic algebra. I now see that my assumption was incorrect.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Then would you mind explaining how in less than a year, Bane became a stronger saber duelist than Kun when Kun had been training for his entire life?
Explain how he became a stronger saber duelist? As far as I'm concerned, Kun would wipe the floor with Bane. And I believe Kun was tooling his jedi master as a padawan and was in an league of his own, whereas Bane wasn't even a good saber duelist, but a good practitioner of the force, and he got close to Kas'im because he knew his every move.


Are you kidding me? Kas'im trained Bane from day 1, and Bane according to POD, had tried and succeeded in memorizing every variation of Kas'im's double bladed style. Your point is still moot.



If you recall correctly, Ragnos' death was the end of the golden age, so what you said was irrelevant. Nothing about Bane's abilities was "titanic", nor "frightening", although he was very good. Bane was the most powerful force user in his era, but we see that the new sith were relative weaklings, so that's nothing special. I could give you a lot of characters who could beat Bane in his prime.

Attention whore? Lol, that sounded... weird.



!!WRONG!!



Yeah, funny how you did the same thing to Ac when he pointed out that you were working under the mentioned fallacy. Now what you did (which is what a Strawman Fallacy is) is that you provided a distorted version of my argument, and refuted that rather than my actual argument (which you ignored). That's a Strawman fallacy, go back to school.



Is debating me too tiring or something? We're talking about how Nihilus could transfer his consciousness into his armour, PAY ATTENTION!!



Not really, it seems that I'm the only person who pointed out the lack of elaboration on your part.



Right, because you were totally the person who first brought up the fact that you have a PPD of 16, and I was totally copying you.



Do you even know what algebra is you dumb fvck? Averages have nothing to do with algebra, go back to school retard.

Can you feel... the love toniiiight...

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, funny how you did the same thing to Ac when he pointed out that you were working under the mentioned fallacy. Now what you did (which is what a Strawman Fallacy is) is that you provided a distorted version of my argument, and refuted that rather than my actual argument (which you ignored). That's a Strawman fallacy, go back to school.
I know what a strawman fallacy is, that's why I critisize you because you're in your own little fantasy world. So it's not a strawman if you can't differentiate between what you think you said and what you actually said. Back to the drawing board for you Noobaris.




Tiring no, boring yes. As i've told you before, a paraplegic 6 year old girl would pose more of a challenge than yourself. So forgive me if I start "virtually" yawning when I read your nonsense.




Or the only person that didn't understand what I was saying. Denial once again.




LOL, talk about a strawman.. Good going Noobaris, no wonder yourself the nickname.




Averages deals with basic math. Mean, median, mode, etc. Algebra is basic math, or at least that's what they taught in honors HS. I'm betting you haven't gotten that far so I'll let you figure it out for yourself.

Right, except anybody here with half a brain can see that you just committed a strawman. How about just asking your idols Advent or Gideon whether you just committed a strawman or not, because I can guarantee that they'll agree with me.



Right, now if I'm so boring, why are you even wasting your time debating me? Says a lot about how much free time you have...



Sexy I don't think even you understand what you're saying half the time.



Yeah, I'm gonna give you another attempt at forming a sentence that actually makes sense. Don't worry big guy, I'm sure you'll be able to pull it off.




Jessica Alba = Hot.
Mischa Barton = Hot.
Jessica Alba = Mischa Barton?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Right, except anybody here with half a brain can see that you just committed a strawman. How about just asking your idols Advent or Gideon whether you just committed a strawman or not, because I can guarantee that they'll agree with me.
Sure you can, you also guaranteed that you've won debates before but nobody's seen it. In fact I have yet to see anybody really agree with you, so your credibility is still at 0. Try again Noobaris.




Yes Noobaris, on a Sunday while I'm watching the NBA playoffs, I can afford to argue with imbeciles.




This coming from someone who lives in his own little dream world.




Awww what's the matter Noobaris? Can't understand simple math so you have to make some shit up to feel better? Someone's been taking those antidepressants. Keep try Noobaris, one day you'll win a debate, or actually have the ability to form a cogent argument.

I'm loving how you're too scared to ask either one of them.



Right, because you only ever do it on Sundays while watching the NBA playoffs.



Good Darth Sexy, nice to see your wising up.



Awwwwwwww, does someone need help correctly quoting the thing they're replying to?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
I'm loving how you're too scared to ask either one of them.
Are you still in denial?




Ahahah this coming from someone who has more posts than me.. Good one




How adorable, the parrot is continuing the self pwnage.




No no betty, it's clear that you lack reading comprehension skills, algebra skills, and common sense. But please, continue the humor, just make sure you repeat what I said, otherwise it's no fun.

I say Nihilus, but not sure.

Id say exar kun, then followed by revan and then maybe vader

No ancient sith until i see ragnos actually do something,

....Vader?

May I ask why?

Did he move any fleets or drain any planets?

Yeah, this is why nobody takes you seriously, you come up with the same old rubbish each time, and never make sense.



Right, except you can add up all of my posts alone with those of Nebaris' and you'd still beat us, and let's not forget about all the times 'TDTD' posted now. And again, I'd much rather have a higher overall number of posts than a higher PPD, and you have everyone on this forum beat with a figure of 16.



Yeah, that was totally self pwnage.



Lol, it's 'Betty' now? I though you reserved that name for Ac. Wasn't my name 'Francine?' Your lame ass insults are bad enough, so at least don't be mixing them up.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
....Vader?

May I ask why?

Did he move any fleets or drain any planets?

1. Studied under the most powerful sith for 20 years
2. Destroyed military tanks with ease as large as AT-ATs with the force
3. As anakin shook down a buiding with his rage
3. Destroyed a medical room with just his emotions
4. Used crush to take down a 30 building in eaw
5. Levitated himself with the force to cut a piece of debris
6. And his force mastery > nihilus save for force drain and his TK
7. Sent a thug flying 50 feet backwards causing the thugs bones to shatter when he hit the wall
8. Pushed tark into the air so greatly that he slammed the ceiling and caused a massive dent
9. And popped a head instantly

By the way nikkolas, drop the nihilus fanboyism, for all we know he could have used the force to activate the ships engines making his job easier.

And vader is 80% of OT sidious who lifted something 19 times the size of the ravager

I would say the second most powerful Sith Lord ever is Revan, when he was a Sith.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, this is why nobody takes you seriously, you come up with the same old rubbish each time, and never make sense.
What's with the projection Noobaris? Or is it denial? You forget it's YOU nobody takes you seriously, hence the nickname Noobaris.




Awww you have to start lying now and calling me tdtd. I forgot it was YOU who was playing detective and humiliating yourself by making baseless claims. Way to go Noobaris!




Judging by the past few months, nobody is your equal in self pwnage.




Boohoo, boohoo hoo Noobaris. Quit crying, nobody cares.

Yeah, please try and at least make sense.



Yeah, except for the fact that not just me, but everyone knows that you're TD, and have called you out on it.



Right, now surely you must realise that just saying that doesn't make it true, right?

Let's take this example for instance.

Here was your post - "This coming from someone who lives in his own little dream world."

Here's what I edited it to - "This coming from someone who constantly owns me"

Here's my reply - "Good Darth Sexy, nice to see your wising up."

Disregarding the fact that editing your post wasn't exactly the maturest thing I could do, I really fail to see how that's self pwnage. Please either explain yourself, or admit that 50% of the time, you don't make sense, because you don't, and everybody can see that.



What, no picture? Come on Sexy, you're slipping.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, please try and at least make sense.
Yet again, this coming from someone who doesn't understand what he's even saying.



Except for the fact that you're the only one who claimed it and everybody made fun of you. Damn Noobaris, you're really in denial here. It's cute.




Noobaris, how old are you? You can't possibly be this stupid. Then again, with the posts you've made, anything's possible.


Poor Noobaris, still attempting to speak for everybody with 0 credibility. And I say self pwnage because everytime you even bother typing, it's something stupid, irrelevant, illogical, useless, etc, ergo self pwnage.




I don't need a picture to pwn you Noobaris, it's been a daily thing since you've come back from your 6th ban.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud


Yeah, except for the fact that not just me, but everyone knows that you're TD, and have called you out on it.
Ds is Not TDTD for sure, grammer proves this and DS argues with logic, the actual Td himself goes against canon and always gives up when LS attacks unlike DS who will argue

And learned nothing as far as we know. Telll me what evidence of these Sith teachings we have that would matter in terms of power?



Entire planet > AT-AT.



He made a ceiling collapse on top of himself.

I know I'm impressed.



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



Where's this?



...okiay....



What about the mindraping and that stun thing? It's said that just by being in Nihilus' presence makes you his slave simply from the power.

Also, Nihilus kept the crew of the Ravager alive.



Nihilus wiped out a fellow Sith Lord by lifting her up and slamming her into a wall a foot way.



Now that's cool.

Where is that?



Because those engines really helped the ships when the Mass Shadow Generator was activated, right?

Stop the Vader fanboyism. For all we know the Sith Teachings he recieved only taught him Force Urine.



I've never seen the source for that number.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
And learned nothing as far as we know. Telll me what evidence of these Sith teachings we have that would matter in terms of power?



Entire planet > AT-AT.



He made a ceiling collapse on top of himself.

I know I'm impressed.



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



Where's this?



...okiay....



What about the mindraping and that stun thing? It's said that just by being in Nihilus' presence makes you his slave simply from the power.

Also, Nihilus kept the crew of the Ravager alive.



Nihilus wiped out a fellow Sith Lord by lifting her up and slamming her into a wall a foot way.



Now that's cool.

Where is that?



Because those engines really helped the ships when the Mass Shadow Generator was activated, right?

Stop the Vader fanboyism. For all we know the Sith Teachings he recieved only taught him Force Urine.



I've never seen the source for that number.

What crap. Not only are Vader's raw force abilities superior to that of Nihilus, even as a machine, but the fact that you claim Vader learned nothing from Sidious in 20 years is hilarious. We don't need proof of specific techniques, it's logical deduction that he learned techniques from Sidious. And the only Fanboy here is you. Furthermore, Nihilus mind raped non force sensitives, big ****ing deal. Joruus did that, as well as Kun, on a level BEYOND Nihilus. All you're doing is downplaying others for the sake of your bullshit Nihilus fanboyism, which is illogical since all of your arguments have been destroyed.

Tell me when Vader as the machine drained planets?



Why are you lying?

And learned nothing as far as we know. Telll me what evidence of these Sith teachings we have that would matter in terms of power?

"as far as we know."

So, tell me, in those 20 years of Sith training, what DID he learn? I'm just curious.



Then how do you quantify what he learned and why does it mean anything?

20 years of training through unknown means, learning unknown things... I am not one to assume anything. And I'm not gonna afford Vader uber-powers because he got 20 years of ambiguous training in the Sith ways.

i also find it HIGHLY doubtful that, with the whole Empire thing going on, that Palpatine was training him that whole time...



Logical deduction he learned techniques sure but WHAT techniques is what matters in a battle and we don't know any of them....so kinda worthless.



Uh-huh.... I'm not the one who has been beaten like a red-headed stepchild by LS, Escape or Advent... that applies more to you and ESB Vader. Using the search function as much as I do teches you a lot.

Also, may i remind you of your Ragnos and Ancient Sith worship that is founded more in your conjecture than fact?



To me it is.

Tell me any other Sith Lord who, merely by their presence, can mindrape people.



To an extent no other Force user has ever achieved... Ripping out pieces of a person's mind and replacing it with his own... I always found that awesome as hell.



I never said his mindraping surpassed anyone's. So, you're making a point I never denied.

Is it fun to rebut against yourself?



That's why I put Kun right next to Nihilus? Because I'm downplaying what he can do?



You've said this so much and it's been proven wrong so much it has lost all meaning.

If ANYONE has had their arguments destroyed, it's you.

At least I use fects and feats, NOT my own speculation. And by said facts and feats, I rank Nihilus above Exar Kun and every other Sith except Sidious.

But, please, "destroy" my arguments again with your Ragnos fanboyism based on nothing but hyperbole.

Oh...wait...he was pwned by Jaden Karr.... There's something. And he did have a scepter to do something Nihilus could do easily...

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Tell me when Vader as the machine drained planets?
Let me use your logic since it's so ridiculous. Tell me when Nihilus force crushed anybody and defeated 15 Jedi in saber combat.



Enough to have a place on Korriban put there by the ancient sith, in case you haven't read DE. Enough to be the most feared man in the galaxy, and defeat Jedi after Jedi.




Easily, Palpatine became the most powerful sith lord after studying for 25-30 years. He then taught Vader whatever for 20 years. Common sense.


Of course not, because it destroys your fanboyish argument.




Actually you are getting a huge beat down for the past week. I however have won arguments against those 3, who happen to be the top debaters on this forum. You can't even form a logical argument.


AKA based on facts and logical deduction, two things that seem to elude you.



You mean non force sensitives? Yea, Exar Kun's stasis field over hundreds of thousands of people. Joruus mindraped tens of thousands of crew members of the Star Destroyers. Care to try again, because your argument is getting deader by the minute.




Oh, that would put Revan above Nihilus by that feat alone, since he ripped the language out of the force sensitive Rakata, and threw in basic.



Since you can't form a cogent argument, I doubt you even know what you're talking about.



Are you really in the Noobaris state of denial? Your argument has been destroyed time and time again, stop lying to yourself.



No, you use feat wars. If we used feat wars, both Kun and Revan are easily above Nihilus.


Says the incompetent Nihilsu fanboy.


Pwned by Jaden? Omg a 5,000 year old spirit who was placed in a weak sith body was pwned, omg !!! Nice comparison dumbshit. And Ragnos' scepter could give force abilities to non force sensitives, so more kudos for him than your sexual fantasy Nihilus. Pwned again.

You know what Sexy, this single exchange of statements says everything about the two of us; I back up what I say (in this instance, by bolding the part of your post that made zero sense), you don't.



Sure thing. You'd be correct of course if we ignore Generic Hero, Lightsnake, Swirly Girl, and Mysterious Man, all of whom acknowledged you as being Tdtd too.



Right, name one thing in that post that could possibly be interpreted as idiotic. Go on. I dare you. If (which is most likely what will happen) you ignore this request with yet another first grade level insult, it will be even more clear that you clearly just never know what the hell you're talking about.

BTW, kudos for taking the post out of context, you get brownie points.



Sure, great save there big guy.



Oh go on, we all know how fond of those pictures you are, go 4 it.

That has nothing to do with what you said.
"What crap. Not only are Vader's raw force abilities superior to that of Nihilus, even as a machine"

So...what Force abilities Vader shown on par with draining planets?



So they honor him on Korriban. This relates to knowing how much he learned...how?

As for being the most feared man in the galaxy...that doesn't equal knowing what he learned. You fail again.

And killing Jedi after Jedi...Jango Fett has done that. Boba Fett has done that. Fodder Jedi would fall to a Sith Lord, der.



A) Where does it say Palpatine studied for 25-30 years? I thought most of his early origins are a mystery.

B) Vader has certain limitations Palpatine doesn't. His horribly damaged body comes to mind. The fact Vader isn't as smart as Palpatine is another.

You're still not listing anything quantifiable he learned. You're using pure guesswork. Name a technique or give me a quote as to what he learned.



By who? You?

Mr. "It was a Force Drain Nihilus used on Kreia though nothing says it was"?

Mr. "Nihilus lifted a ship though everyone has told me he lifted a fleet"?

If anyone has been getting beaten around, it's you. You may have noticed no one is agreeing with you on...anything.



Now this I would have to see to believe.



Your argument is the one where you guess at everything and prove nothing.

Still waiting on proof it was a Force Drain he used on Kreia. Still waiting on proof of what Vader learned in those 20 years.



Based on quotes, no feats and your speculation.

Nothing proveable.

Ragnos was the strongest back then. He never drained a planet. He's less than Nihilus. He never paralyzed a Senate. He's less than Kun. He never destroyed a fleet. He's less than Sidious.

Ragnos is a loser and has nothing. Get over it.



I feel pity... You seem less and less capable of reading or taking in things as we go along. Here let me help you.
"Tell me any other Sith Lord who, merely by their presence, can mindrape people."

A statis field and gripping all their minds doesn't equate to "merely by their presence" in my world.





I'm not talking about Nihilus.... Though draining the life out of a Force sensitive race and dozens of Jedi does kinda WTFPWN ripping the language out of a singel Rakata.

But, like I said, what Joruus did is above anything else achieved in the mental use of The Force.

Since you can't form a cogent argument, I doubt you even know what you're talking about.

Still having that reading comprehension problem?

Let me help.







Destroyed?

By who?

Definitely not "this is a Force Drain though it doesn't look like one nor does anyone say it is".

At least my arguments rest in facts. Not what I ASSume.



Name one planet drained by Revan and Kun.

Name one time they lifted a fleet.



If you're gonna use the fallacious argument of Nihilus being beaten by the Exile, I'm gonna use the argument of Ragnos being pwned by Jaden.

Prove to me being a spirit for 5,000 years somehow weakened him as we know Nihilus was weakened when he fought the Exile.

Oh and losing to Jaden is actually EVIDENCE. We know about it. It's not supposition or assumptions. It's an actual quantified feat.



Does your immaturity know no bounds?

Can't you even formulate an argument without acting like an arrogant fool or using grade-school taunts?

As for it giving powers to non-Force sensitives...I really don't care. It's not Ragnos' power. It's an artifact. My poitn was that Ragnos needed a scepter to do something Nihilus could do on his own. My point is valid until Ragnos drains a planet on his own or someone says he can.

Was Nihilus' draining ritualistic? I doubt it's instant, anyway, because he spoke to use it. Also, Nihilus didn't even kill an unsuspecting Traya.

Also, Ragnos' scepter could drain planets, but it couldn't kill Kyle Katarn.

I'm not sure that Nihilus is quote the guy you're making him out to be in personal combat. Not to mention that some Jedi have shown the ability to loop out of the force.

There seems to be a difference in the drains. He does not speak to drain the Exile but he does to drain Katarr.

I haven't read Unseen, Unheard but I've never heard him doing any ritualizing beforehand. Just he spoke and everything died.

There's also the matter of how his drain destroys things on the planet. It destroys buildings and stuff. That's clearly different than what he did to the Exile and Sion in the cut scene.



He wasn't trying to. He threw her into a wall and Sion beat her up some while he watched. I recall hearing she states he wanted to humiliate her.



I'm not saying he's mastered all the forms of lightsaber combat, a billion martial art techniques and thousands of Force powers but he still has done enough with The Force to see hoe extraordinarily powerful he is.



This is correct but this simply means he could not drain them. it doesn't mean said Jedi are stronger than him. Wasn't it Tholme who could disconnect from The Force? I wouldn't say he's stronger than Nihilus.

Hmm... I'd go for Revan or Exar, but Bane could be in there, too

Darth Sidious

Uh, it's the second most powerful... not the first...

Originally posted by Riverollv
Uh, it's the second most powerful... not the first... He thinks Sidious is the 2nd most powerful

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Was Nihilus' draining ritualistic? I doubt it's instant, anyway, because he spoke to use it. Also, Nihilus didn't even kill an unsuspecting Traya.

Also, Ragnos' scepter could drain planets, but it couldn't kill Kyle Katarn.

I'm not sure that Nihilus is quote the guy you're making him out to be in personal combat. Not to mention that some Jedi have shown the ability to loop out of the force.

Nihilus couldn't defeat the top dogs in combat, this has been proven.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
You know what Sexy, this single exchange of statements says everything about the two of us; I back up what I say (in this instance, by bolding the part of your post that made zero sense), you don't.



Sure thing. You'd be correct of course if we ignore Generic Hero, Lightsnake, Swirly Girl, and Mysterious Man, all of whom acknowledged you as being Tdtd too.



Right, name one thing in that post that could possibly be interpreted as idiotic. Go on. I dare you. If (which is most likely what will happen) you ignore this request with yet another first grade level insult, it will be even more clear that you clearly just never know what the hell you're talking about.

BTW, kudos for taking the post out of context, you get brownie points.



Sure, great save there big guy.



Oh go on, we all know how fond of those pictures you are, go 4 it.
Stop speaking for everybody as you have no credibility on this forum and are known as the guy who embarasses himself the most. Way to go (insert female name). Just kidding, tool.

Except he can and would.

People like Revan and Kun have nothing on Nihilus' level of power.

Your OPINION doesn't even come close to "proof."

Are you serious? The only great thing Nihilus has is his mega Force drain. Besides that, he's nothing special. And then if we talk about saber combat, he gets assraped by any of those two

And that's demeaning...how?

Your basically saying "the only great thing he has is a power greater than any other Sith Lord." ('cept Palps of course)



I am left to ponder...the utter futility of dealing with people.

I point to.........THE FIRST POST!!! And several copies of said first post that I've reposted.

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

So...nothing special? I suppose pulling a fleet with your TK is a feat every other high-end Sith Lord has matched, eh?

No, you're distorting facts, his superiority has been disproven.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
And that's demeaning...how?

Your basically saying "the only great thing he has is a power greater than any other Sith Lord." ('cept Palps of course)



I am left to ponder...the utter futility of dealing with people.

I point to.........THE FIRST POST!!! And several copies of said first post that I've reposted.

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

So...nothing special? I suppose pulling a fleet with your TK is a feat every other high-end Sith Lord has matched, eh?

Okay dude, the point is he cannot and will not beat Kun or Revan. He was beaten by the Exile, for God's sake! Explain how does that make him uber powerful.

good lord

I know.

I impress even myself sometimes.

But, as I showed, Exile beat Nihilus while he was weakened multiple times, after Nihilus had already foregone the chance of killing the Exile and while it was 3 on 1 he was still "too powerful."

It's good to have all the facts to back you up, right DS?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I know.

I impress even myself sometimes.

But, as I showed, Exile beat Nihilus while he was weakened multiple times, after Nihilus had already foregone the chance of killing the Exile and while it was 3 on 1 he was still "too powerful."

It's good to have all the facts to back you up, right DS?

I stopped responding to your crap because you sound like a buffoon always losing the argument and continuing. But yet again, you reinforce my theory about the piss poor debaters lying to themselves. Sorry sweetheart, you lose.

I have the evidence, actually.

I've proven multiple things while you've proven nothing.

1) Nihilus was horribly weak when he fought the Exile thus already rendering any result of the battle inaccurate for assessing his power.
2) Even with this, Nihilus could have killed the Exile but chose to drain her instead.
3) Nihilus was FURTHER weakened by trying to drain the Exile but, even so and with THREE opponents attacking him, he was "too powerful."

I have proven everything I've said. All you do is resort to verbal attacks because you have nothing better.

I'm surprised you havent' been banned.

IMO, Sexy is a decent debater. But hes becoming like Sorgo(Original not Sorgo X), insulting people these days to win the argument.

Bring back Sorgo Cinnamon Buns! :'<

Originally posted by Nikkolas
And learned nothing as far as we know. Telll me what evidence of these Sith teachings we have that would matter in terms of power?
Learned nothing? Proof? He learned how to channel the raw power of the dark side without going amok and learnt many other techniques as well, BTW the ancient sith even saluted darth vader by building him a throne on korriban

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Entire planet > AT-AT. Then i guess nihilus > revan, nihilus > OT sidious by what you just said because both of them has not done anything on a bigger scale, what a dumbass


Originally posted by Nikkolas

He made a ceiling collapse on top of himself.
You are correct, but he would have done alot worse had he actually used a technique
I know I'm impressed.

Originally posted by Nikkolas


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Bingo, thanks for backing me up

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Where's this?
Eaw





Originally posted by Nikkolas

What about the mindraping and that stun thing? It's said that just by being in Nihilus' presence makes you his slave simply from the power. Right, mind raping a non force user, wow very very impressive, vader has done far better things to jedis like using an entire water fall to drown the dark woman

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Also, Nihilus kept the crew of the Ravager alive.
Irrelevant


Originally posted by Nikkolas

Nihilus wiped out a fellow Sith Lord by lifting her up and slamming her into a wall a foot way. Right, he used the force drain on her as she said "i waS stripped of my power" and he didnt wipe her out, Lets play by your logic, you love to babble about nihilus > sion video when it is not canon, while in your favourite video, sion stated nihilus couldnt kill traya whom is weaker than he is. Nice try


Originally posted by Nikkolas


Now that's cool.

Where is that?
Empire series

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Because those engines really helped the ships when the Mass Shadow Generator was activated, right? And wheres the evidence that the generator was on when he was pulling the ship? LIAR LIAR pants on fire
Originally posted by Nikkolas

Stop the Vader fanboyism. For all we know the Sith Teachings he recieved only taught him Force Urine.
No, alot others actually, what has nihilus learnt other than a pecky force stun any padawan could know and that force stripping technique?

Originally posted by Nikkolas

I've never seen the source for that number. Its from GL moron

Originally posted by Nikkolas


So...nothing special? I suppose pulling a fleet with your TK is a feat every other high-end Sith Lord has matched, eh? He pulled the ravager from the wells, not a fleet, i caught you red handed this time you liar

That has more to do with controlling himself and not being an imbecile. If 20 years of any kind of teachings didn't teach him that, then he'd be Jar Jar Binks' intellectual inferior.



Name some?



Impressive.



I don't think people are understanding my point here. If by being near him and through his sheer power and presence alone, while he's not actually trying to, he mindrapes you..i find it impressive.



I don't see what that has to do with telepathy or anything but still impressive.



How so? We're listing feats. It's a feat for Nihilus showing he knows more Force abilities than just a drain which a lot of people (mistakenly) say he doesn't.



Well she wasn't stripped of The Force because the lightsaber moved.

She meant she was stripped of her power...ya know...being the leader of the Triumvirate? Their master?

Give it up on this point. It doesn't look like a drain, no one says it was a drain and it doesn't have the result of a drain.



What do you call being thrown against a wall and so weakened you can't pull your lightsaber to you?



I "babble" about it? I've brought it up like...once. And that one time I made it clear it was cut and non-canon...

And what he says is "Darth Traya yet lives. You did not kill her as you assumed." As it was SION who beat the holy hell out of her and she was still moaning and yelpign while he did all this...I see no reason for Nihilus to assume he killed her by throwing her into a wall when she was clearly still alive afterwards.

We also have no idea when that scene is placed and what might have happened before it.



Tobin says he pulled the Ravager and the fleet from the "mass shadows of Malachor." What else could he be talking about?



Choke, Drain, massive TK, consciousness transferal. His body is already dead they say by the time you meet him. I believe they said he put his consciousness into his armor on Malachor so this would make sense.

And just because a padawan could know doesn't mean they could do or defend against it... The Exile was a lot stronger than a padawan and she was helpless against it.



Again, never seen the source.

For the love of....

IT'S ON THE VERY FIRST POST!

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

Originally posted by Nikkolas
That has more to do with controlling himself and not being an imbecile. If 20 years of any kind of teachings didn't teach him that, then he'd be Jar Jar Binks' intellectual inferior. Then tell me, what did nihilus learn from traya other than force stun and a stupid mind trick where inferior jedis haved? Vader has force levitate, force crush, force grip, force wave, amazing TK and according to RODV, he had access to the jedi holocrons(Chapter 14) and thus might know the fallanasi looping technique, The archives and holocrons have alot of data and thats one thing which made sidious extremely powerful


Originally posted by Nikkolas

Name some?
See the above

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Impressive. Indeed, ancient sith salute the powerful modern era sith who has surpassed them in power


Originally posted by Nikkolas

I don't think people are understanding my point here. If by being near him and through his sheer power and presence alone, while he's not actually trying to, he mindrapes you..i find it impressive.
Yet he couldnt mindrape strong minded people like mandalore and the exile, very impressive, Despite the fact that vader could kill an officer without lifting his hands and by doing it subconciously is even more impressive while talking to another officer

Originally posted by Nikkolas

I don't see what that has to do with telepathy or anything but still impressive. Well telepathy hm? Freedon nadd surpasses that and please zomg! nihilus pulled a fleet, zomg! nihilus drained an unsuspecting planet, Nadd attacked vodo halfway across the galaxy


Originally posted by Nikkolas

How so? We're listing feats. It's a feat for Nihilus showing he knows more Force abilities than just a drain which a lot of people (mistakenly) say he doesn't. its irrelevant because it never had and never will help in in a fight




Originally posted by Nikkolas

What do you call being thrown against a wall and so weakened you can't pull your lightsaber to you? Hmm lets see, despite her being weakened, nihilus still couldnt kill her as he intended


Originally posted by Nikkolas

I "babble" about it? I've brought it up like...once. And that one time I made it clear it was cut and non-canon... Right and now i actually debate with logic unlike you, O and made it clear its not canon? You just used it as a debate earlier, want me to quote other people as evidence? i will
Originally posted by Nikkolas

And what he says is "Darth Traya yet lives. You did not kill her as you assumed." As it was SION who beat the holy hell out of her and she was still moaning and yelpign while he did all this...I see no reason for Nihilus to assume he killed her by throwing her into a wall when she was clearly still alive afterwards. Sions quote alone proves you wrong



Originally posted by Nikkolas

Tobin says he pulled the Ravager and the fleet from the "mass shadows of Malachor." What else could he be talking about?
Fallible inuniverse characters, the loading screen says he pulls the ravager from the wells only, no fleets mentioned, i caught you red handed again

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Choke, Drain, massive TK, consciousness transferal. His body is already dead they say by the time you meet him. I believe they said he put his consciousness into his armor on Malachor so this would make sense. 4 powers? Wow pretty nice, make it 5 due to telepathy
Originally posted by Nikkolas

And just because a padawan could know doesn't mean they could do or defend against it... The Exile was a lot stronger than a padawan and she was helpless against it. Lol she could have been caught off guard, By what you just said i can assume a padawan knows how to strike with a saber, but doesnt know how to block a strike, You fail again


Originally posted by Nikkolas

Again, never seen the source. Then ask lightsnake, darth sexy, gideon, acstyles and of course you have never read it. You dont do your home work


Last thing, if you actually bothered to read my post eariler, i said i put Kun and revan above vader thus i didnt assume vader is no2. Your derailing this topic SEVERELY which proves you have no faith in your arguement

Originally posted by Nikkolas
For the love of....

IT'S ON THE VERY FIRST POST!

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power." *yawn* it came from tobin, in universe fallible source as you claimed. He was never there when he pulled his ship out while the loading screen stated he only pulled the ravager

Originally posted by Kadesh
*yawn* it came from tobin, in universe fallible source as you claimed. He was never there when he pulled his ship out while the loading screen stated he only pulled the ravager

Simply calling him a fallible source is great and all, but until you can prove that he'd either have a reason to be lying, or a reason to be misinformed, we just have to accept that what he's saying is the truth.

Consciousness transferal, I guess. We don't know when or how he learned it.



Okie dokie.



You talking about the one Ancient Sith who said Palpatine had become the greatest?

If not, I'd like to see the quote you're speaking about... It be useful to shoot down the Ancient Sith > all.



Did he try?



Good for him.

If his attack didn't even kill Vodo...then yes, Nihilus is still above it. The range of the technique hardly means anything.



Who said he intended to kill her?

You made it quite clear that scene with Sion is non-canon.

So, give me the canon quote saying Nihilus intended to kill her.



Yes and I made it clear it wasn't canon....



Sion's quote proves nothing. Nihilus has no reason to assume he killed Traya when she was CLEARLY still alive after he threw her into the wall.



Um...no you didn't?

Fallible? Yes. Can you prove he's wrong? No. He says he did and there's nothing to contradict it so...he did.



Quality over quantity as they say.

Nihilus has one attack that puts him above anyone with dozens of techniques.



Prove she was off-guard? She's the one who is approaching him...while his back is turned. He turns around, raises a hand and stuns her. So...how is she off-guard again?



I spend 70% of my time on this site going through old threads and topics. I enjoy the search engine and I've prettty much exhausted everything I can find in any character I have an interest in or need to know about.

I do plenty of homework.



Huh? i have no faith in it? A man without faith in his argument would not give a damn. He would not defend it every step of the way as I have done. Prove it's right every step of the way as I have done.

I'm giving Vader my #5 spot.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I have the evidence, actually.

I've proven multiple things while you've proven nothing.
No, you've proven absolutely nothing and your fanboyish arguments have been destroyed. I'm resorting to insults because I don't have the time nor patience to deal with stupid people.


So not only does Nihilus have to constantly feed, but he can't defeat anybody who's a wound in the force, he has no known saber abilities and yet he can stand up to Kun or Revan. Good argument toughpants.


Denial from a poor debater.


If Rex banned for stupidity, you'd have been out weeks ago.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Simply calling him a fallible source is great and all, but until you can prove that he'd either have a reason to be lying, or a reason to be misinformed, we just have to accept that what he's saying is the truth.

Good lord, I thought after being banned 6 times, you'd learn some common sense. Let's try this again Noobaris. Tobin IS a fallible 3rd party character because he knows nothing about Nihilus, nor is he a force sensitive or an authority on how Nihilus is supposedly holding the ship up. Common sense would tell you that if he was holding the ship up, it would have crumbled when he died. We HAVE evidence of sith using their will to hold stuff up, like Sidious did on the second death star. When Sidious died, his fleet went to hell, but suddenly Nihilus can hold a ship up by some mystical technique because fanboys want to believe it.

Yeah, and I thought after 4323 posts, you'd finally learn how to read.

Originally posted by Kadesh
*yawn* it came from tobin, in universe fallible source as you claimed. He was never there when he pulled his ship out while the loading screen stated he only pulled the ravager

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Simply calling him a fallible source is great and all, but until you can prove that he'd either have a reason to be lying, or a reason to be misinformed, we just have to accept that what he's saying is the truth.

What's that you see there Sexy? I'll answer for you: it's me replying to Kadesh questioning whether Nihilus pulled an entire fleet, or just the Ravager out of the gravity wells. Nothing about holding his entire ship together, so yet again, all that whining has achieved nothing. Good job buddy.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Consciousness transferal, I guess. We don't know when or how he learned it.

Hmm lets see well palpatine himself could do that, Nihilus may have learnt it from malachor, certeinly not kreia






Originally posted by Nikkolas

You talking about the one Ancient Sith who said Palpatine had become the greatest?

If not, I'd like to see the quote you're speaking about... It be useful to shoot down the Ancient Sith > all. Well you yourself destroyed ancient sitt > all so why do i need to prove to you something you already defeated? And yes im talking about the sith who saluted palpatine, for what other reasons will they build a throne for vader there?



Originally posted by Nikkolas

Did he try?
Trying can be the first step to failure, Would it matter? mind tricks dont work on jedis as several sources proven



Originally posted by Nikkolas

If his attack didn't even kill Vodo...then yes, Nihilus is still above it. The range of the technique hardly means anything.
Ironic you mentioned that, its pretty amazing to attack somebody lightyears away, tell me, could nihilus drain from a light year away? Certeinly not, Besides ill admit i dont know much about nadd so ill put nihilus > him

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Who said he intended to kill her?

You made it quite clear that scene with Sion is non-canon.

So, give me the canon quote saying Nihilus intended to kill her.



Yes and I made it clear it wasn't canon....



Sion's quote proves nothing. Nihilus has no reason to assume he killed Traya when she was CLEARLY still alive after he threw her into the wall.
Forget this one then, i concede

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Um...no you didn't? I did
Originally posted by Nikkolas

Fallible? Yes. Can you prove he's wrong? No. He says he did and there's nothing to contradict it so...he did. Can you prove that he is right? 1)He wasnt there when nihilus dragged his ship 2)The loading screen(out of universe) stated that nihilus only pulled his ship from the well 3) In-universe characters can be fallible


Originally posted by Nikkolas

Quality over quantity as they say.

Nihilus has one attack that puts him above anyone with dozens of techniques. It wouldnt matter if somebody strikes first with a technique that can kill, examples are amulet blasts, force crush, emerald lighting and deadly sight, Its a matter of chance sometimes

Originally posted by Nikkolas


Prove she was off-guard? She's the one who is approaching him...while his back is turned. He turns around, raises a hand and stuns her. So...how is she off-guard again? I said she "could" have been, sorry if i didnt specify that earlier, Off guard? Lightsaber no drawn, and force stuns can be resisted by average jedis

Originally posted by Nikkolas


I spend 70% of my time on this site going through old threads and topics. I enjoy the search engine and I've prettty much exhausted everything I can find in any character I have an interest in or need to know about.

I do plenty of homework. You seem to lack alot of knowledge on vader it seems...


Originally posted by Nikkolas

Huh? i have no faith in it? A man without faith in his argument would not give a damn. He would not defend it every step of the way as I have done. Prove it's right every step of the way as I have done. I apologise for that comment as i said it when i was steamed up earlier
Originally posted by Nikkolas

I'm giving Vader my #5 spot. Thats fine by me, w/e it is i never argued number 2 for vader, For me its sidious Exar revan, nihilus and then vader which is number 5

Because of his power.



The pot calling the kettle black Mr. "Nihilus drained Kreia though there's no evidence of it as neither the scene nor the dialogue classify it a drain and Kreia's lightsaber moved."



I've already told you about you DS about your refusal to acknowledge facts wholly defeats your own purpose.

Nihilus could have beaten the Exile, as I showed on the last page. Now if you were to say "he can't drain anyone who is a wound in The Force" it be accurate. But he can defeat them.



He's stand up and smack them like bitches, then they'd sit down, yes.



Well, thank you for the varification of the statement you responded to. I didn't really need it.

But I have proven everything I've said with quotes and evidence. unlike you.



...are you like 2-years-old? Jesus Christ, grow up.

Tobin knows nothing about Nihilus?

He tells us most of what we know about Nihilus. And a lot of it is confirmed by Visas.



Except that common sense doesn't tell us how he is holding the ship up and nothing in dialogue says it is a constant use of his power to keep the ship up.



That's vastly different. Palpatine was using (or one of his Grand Admirals was using) Battle Meditation. The fleet went to hell when they lost their coordination through this. It has nothing whatsoever in common with TK.



True enough.



Well we can't just assume if he tried to mindrape her he would fail. It has no support unless the Exile has shown mental resistance feats?



Yes but, as you said of Nihilus keeping the Ravager's inhabitants alive, it's irrelevant as it has no use in a versus.



Tobin might not have been there but he's the main source of info on Nihilus...moreso than even Kreia. Most of what he says is supported by Visas who would know. In-universe characters can be fallible but aren't their quotes useable if they aren't contradicted?



Emerald Lightning only ever killed non-Force Users with no defense... i fail to see how is is a real insta-kill until an actual Furce user is killed instantly by it.



'cause I've never been a big Vader fan. I like Palpatine more.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, and I thought after 4323 posts, you'd finally learn how to read.





What's that you see there Sexy? I'll answer for you: it's me replying to Kadesh questioning whether Nihilus pulled an entire fleet, or just the Ravager out of the gravity wells. Nothing about holding his entire ship together, so yet again, all that whining has achieved nothing. Good job buddy.

As the leader in posts overall, you still have no common sense whatsoever. And your question is stupid considering Nikkolas considers the ravager AS the entire fleet, so who's the one with the reading comprehension problems. Way to prove your stupidity yet again Noobaris..

Nikkolas, give it up.

What the hell? You make ZERO sense, I'm done with you.

"He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet... that is a measure of his power."

Definition of "along"-
# with a forward motion; "we drove along admiring the view"; "the horse trotted along at a steady pace"; "the circus traveled on to the next city"; "move along"; "march on"
# in accompaniment or as a companion; "his little sister came along to the movies"; "I brought my camera along"; "working along with his father"
# to a more advanced state; "the work is moving along"; "well along in their research"; "hurrying their education along"; "getting along in years"
# in addition (usually followed by `with'); "we sent them food and some clothing went along in the package"; "along with the package came a bill"; "consider the advantages along with the disadvantages"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:along&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

So...what you just said makes no sense. I never once said Ravager is the "entire fleet." You said that and it's wrong.



You. You're saying things I never said.

MARKA RAGNOS! KREIA EVEN SAID THAT HE WAS the Best saberist there was in his time

Originally posted by darthsith19
Who said that?

Nihilus did. I wouldn't think he's the second best, though.

Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
MARKA RAGNOS! KREIA EVEN SAID THAT HE WAS the Best saberist there was in his time
SHE SAID TULAK HORD AND MARKA RAGNOS DIDN'T USE A LIGHTSABER.

Also, how the Hell would she know?

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
What the hell? You make ZERO sense, I'm done with you.

Boohoo, you're doing us a favor.

Well, for starters, clear quotes saying he's the strongest.

Second, quotes saying he knows all the Ancient Sith techniques and abilities.

Third, feats like destroying starfleets by ripping apart space-time, making wormholes, lburying a Super Star Destroyer, mindraping all of Coruscant, killing 3 Dark Side Adepts who had revived Darth Maul, draining the people of Byss (in moderation) and a lot more.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well, for starters, clear quotes saying he's the strongest.

Second, quotes saying he knows all the Ancient Sith techniques and abilities.

Third, feats like destroying starfleets by ripping apart space-time, making wormholes, lburying a Super Star Destroyer, mindraping all of Coruscant, killing 3 Dark Side Adepts who had revived Darth Maul, draining the people of Byss (in moderation) and a lot more. but shwozers! cant Nihlus jus use his amazin awsum wikidnes on Sidos and drian him of teh force?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Tobin knows nothing about Nihilus?
Nope
Originally posted by Nikkolas

He tells us most of what we know about Nihilus. And a lot of it is confirmed by Visas. Still doesnt prove what has been stated out of universe about pulling his ship


Originally posted by Nikkolas

Except that common sense doesn't tell us how he is holding the ship up and nothing in dialogue says it is a constant use of his power to keep the ship up.. But ill admit it is impressive


Originally posted by Nikkolas



Well we can't just assume if he tried to mindrape her he would fail. It has no support unless the Exile has shown mental resistance feats?
According to G-canon, mind tricks work on the weak minded, and you proved that he subconsiously mind raped anyboy who went near him, Mandalore didnt get mind raped because according to obi wan, it doesnt work on the strong mind

Originally posted by Nikkolas

Yes but, as you said of Nihilus keeping the Ravager's inhabitants alive, it's irrelevant as it has no use in a versus. fine by me


Originally posted by Nikkolas

Tobin might not have been there but he's the main source of info on Nihilus...moreso than even Kreia. Most of what he says is supported by Visas who would know. In-universe characters can be fallible but aren't their quotes useable if they aren't contradicted? True, but tobins quote contradicts what the loading screen stated and thus out of universe statements > fallible characters



Originally posted by Nikkolas

Emerald Lightning only ever killed non-Force Users with no defense... i fail to see how is is a real insta-kill until an actual Furce user is killed instantly by it. Sidious instantly killed 3 sith acolytes powerful enough to bring maul back from the dead and with the first stroke, they turned to ashes and luke > sidious


Originally posted by Nikkolas

'cause I've never been a big Vader fan. I like Palpatine more. fine by me, seriously nikkolas theres no reason to argue

The only person I was really arguing with was DS. And that's over with right now.

I think Nihilus is the second most powerful. This is not a slight on Exar or Vader or anyone. I just think his feats put him above them. Yes, it is primarily the feat of draining Katarr that puts him above them but he's done other impressive things with The Force to make me think he's far more than a one-trick pony.



We know Sidous learned all the teachniques of the Ancients. Now admittedly, his drain didn't have nearly the devastation of Nihilus' but this is mainly because he didn't need the whole planet's energy. Just the people in it.

Nihilus' drain also seems to strip skin from bones and wreck buildings...

But logic dictates Palpatine most likely has a defense for the technique.

This is yet another reason why I disliked KOTOR 2 so much. The big bad guy is a demi-god in his own right. Sure there's conniving in Kreia, there's a visible threat in Sion, but then they throw in a planet eater? Jesus Christ, what next? A Galaxy Muncher?

At least the first game was reasonable in its antagonists.

On-topic though, aside from Nihilus's Draining techniques (A Deus ex machina frankly), does anyone honestly believe he would be second?

Isn't KOTOR an RPG?

I've played Final Fantasy and the Xeno series...planet-eaters aren't anything special for the main baddies.



If we take it away, we have a large TK feat, some ability to keep himself and other beings alive in a ship with large parts exposed to space, stun, choke and consciousness transferal.

I'd still put him in Top 5. I'd place Kun higher than him. however.

And it still baffles me that people put Revan so high... He grew stronger as a light-sider than he was as a Dark Lord.What feats as a Sith did he perform to place him higher than someone like Nihilus? Or anywhere near Kun and Nihilus?

Are there any specific quotes in PoD as of how strong he was or what he could do?

Let's not also forget that because Nihilus is a wound in the force (thus there's no force presence within him), he's immune to force attacks and can't be sensed by the force, which gives him a huge advantage against other force users.

Uh he can be sensed in the force, wtf are you talking about

No he can't. How the hell can he be sensed? He's a wound in the force, there's nothing to be sensed. Until you actually have concrete evidence saying that he can actually be sensed, please just be quiet.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
No he can't. How the hell can he be sensed? He's a wound in the force, there's nothing to be sensed. Until you actually have concrete evidence saying that he can actually be sensed, please just be quiet. Because visas sensed the exile who is also a wound in the force

The Exile and Nihilus' nature is not the same. The Exile had slowly been regaing her force presence since the start of KotOR2, she was only a partial wound in the force.

As far as power goes, Nihilus is up there. In a small skirmish however, or a versus battle context, I don't see how he is anything more than "above average." He isn't a huge threat in one on one combat. How could he use his destroy/drain attack and not be destroyed in this setting, might I ask? Also, who's to say he doesn't need to prepare to let out one of these attacks. He may use his ship to amplify his power, seeing as how it is an Ancient Sith ship, and he needed to speak to use his power. I think it's ritualistic.

He doesn't have to use the magnified version of the drain he uses on planets. He can do the one he did to the Exile. There definitely seems to be a differ[ence.



The uber-drain or the regular one?

I saw no evidence he needed to prepare for either but ESB Vader is the one with Unseen, Unheard. Maybe it tells of him preparing for it in there but I don't think so.



Except the ship is totally un-spaceworthy and the only thing ever said about it and Nihilus is that he uses it to go through space. I didn't see nor hear anything about it possibly augmenting his power so I'm not gonna consider it.



So, you say one thing and a planet dies and it's a ritual? Were their candles, dancing and his Force zombies gathered in a pentegram?

So, Nihilus drained Kreia?

Despite it not looking like a drain or having the effect of the drain?

This is what KREIA says on the matter.

"There will be those who will deny the force, try to forget it, but they manitan unconusius ties. And there would be those, like me, who have had the Force stripped from them."

So, Nihilus picked her up and threw her against a wall and stripped her of The Force also.

Yes we see the lightsaber move but this is probably just an error by the people who made the game. The canon statement by the person who had this done to them says she was stripped of The Force.

So, chalk up another ability to disprove the notion Nihilus is a one-trick pony.