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Has anyone heard of or seen this film before? I'm watching it at the moment and it's pretty interesting. I'm not fully knowledgeable regarding September 11th but obviously I'm as interested as the next person in knowing if there were any cover ups and why.

Just thought I'd start a discussion about the film itself and the points it raises, don't think the video and a discussion about it has been approached before

You don't think this has been approached before?

Are you serious? It's possibly the most approached subject in KMC's history.

Anyway, regarding the possibility of cover-ups or self-sabotage, maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. What I do think it stupid is, as someone said the other day, conspiracy theorists who are so deluded that it actually reaches a point of "Nobody did anything, it was a lie.".

-AC

No, I meant I don't think this video has been discussed before, perhaps I'll change my first post

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I do find the video interesting and am impressed by the group of women who got together to search for answers. Although, a small part of me does feel as though maybe they just needed some sort of a distraction and couldn't bear to let go of those they lost

That's a misleading idea; A search for answers.

I have nothing against the man, but Deano has been on a search for answers for quite some time, do you see my point?

-AC

imho there were certainly many coverups for incompetance in immediate response. thats about it though. deano insists that it was planned, which imho is legendary horseshit.

I just have one question...

...what is this a film or a documentary?

so this video is searching for answers regarding why appropriate action was not taken? i hate being in the dark.

If you're that in the dark, try quickly searching it yourself with the terms you're looking to clarify

have u not heard of the conspiracy forum? this has been discussed to death

im happy that you have finally decided somethings not right with the official story. 6 years to late but still

Uh-oh!

double uh oh. somebody didnt have their morning coffee.

Originally posted by Deano
have u not heard of the conspiracy forum? this has been discussed to death

im happy that you have finally decided somethings not right with the official story. 6 years to late but still

no deano. the topic of government incompetence deserves an exclusive spotlight. when it exists in the topic of "OMG BUSH ATTACKED US ON 911!!111!!" it loses its validity.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
double uh oh. somebody didnt have their morning coffee.

There is some more in the kitchen. Help yourself.

Originally posted by Deano
have u not heard of the conspiracy forum? this has been discussed to death

im happy that you have finally decided somethings not right with the official story. 6 years to late but still

Go away

I just wanted to discuss the video and wondered if anyone else had seen it. I didn't want to get in a tizzy about the potential for there having been a conspiracy.

I guess you could say I was trying to avoid the conspiracy forum, actually

Originally posted by Syren
I guess you could say I was trying to avoid the conspiracy forum, actually A commendable sentiment

Originally posted by Syren


I guess you could say I was trying to avoid the conspiracy forum, actually

I don't blame you there. I browsed through the threads and there was no moderate discussion of any sort going on.

I haven't seen the movie but have done enough research on my own to know that the "official" story handed to us by the government is complete bullshit and is disrespectful to a handful of scientific standards and even simple logic.

Originally posted by Syren
Go away

I just wanted to discuss the video and wondered if anyone else had seen it. I didn't want to get in a tizzy about the potential for there having been a conspiracy.

I guess you could say I was trying to avoid the conspiracy forum, actually

Originally posted by Strangelove
A commendable sentiment

time to stop running boys and girls. it happens all the time. especially when their comfortable belief system is in danger of shattering.

two examples above.

deano, you are aware that your only tool in this debate (strawman) is also where you fail?

Scientifically, none of the governments claims about the attacks make sense - the flukiest being how the Pentagon was hit. I thought the towers were odd but anyone who has rode a plane should know there is something odd about the "attack" on the Pentagon.

Originally posted by Strangelove
A commendable sentiment

HERE HERE!

Originally posted by Deano
time to stop running boys and girls. it happens all the time. especially when their comfortable belief system is in danger of shattering.

two examples above.

Deano, you do realise I'm not swayed either way, right? I'm not addicted to conspiracies and I'm not living in a bubble.

I just don't care about what you and people like you have to say, unless it's decently founded. I watched this film and wanted to know if anyone else had come across it and what their thoughts were.

You're like some kind of homing missile

Originally posted by Syren
Deano, you do realise I'm not swayed either way, right? I'm not addicted to conspiracies and I'm not living in a bubble.

I just don't care about what you and people like you have to say, unless it's decently founded. I watched this film and wanted to know if anyone else had come across it and what their thoughts were.

You're like some kind of homing missile

saHs6J0OXVI

Originally posted by AngryManatee
saHs6J0OXVI Why sink the Titanic? Why fool people? Oh, and it was the Titanic that sank. Everything in the Titanic was recovered, even that one bathroom which the Olympic didn't have.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Why sink the Titanic? Why fool people? Oh, and it was the Titanic that sank. Everything in the Titanic was recovered, even that one bathroom which the Olympic didn't have.

That was a more serious response then I had expected.

Here's why

Originally posted by Deano
time to stop running boys and girls. it happens all the time. especially when their comfortable belief system is in danger of shattering.

two examples above. So because I like to stay away from the Conspiracy forum, I'm a sheep?

Flimsy logic at best

Ice.

you stay away because there are certain truths you are not ready to handle.

you can keep your head in the sand if you want...but your ass is still in the air and the tornado is still coming.

ignorance is bliss they say....but only for so long.

you'll find out soon enough

Ok...back to the conspiracy forum...playtime is over.

Originally posted by Deano
you stay away because there are certain truths you are not ready to handle. I stay away because you're a bunch of nutters. Don't dare assume that you can assign motives to me doped

May I insert the word "ignroant" infront of "nutters"?

Originally posted by Alliance
May I insert the word "ignroant" infront of "nutters"? Be my guest

*dances*

hahahahhahah fools....FOOLS!

pointandlaugh

I'd rather be a fool than a fruitloop.

Originally posted by Deano


you'll find out soon enough

when exactly?

i mean...you can figure out all the shadow alien governments elaborate plots and ploys to rule over the entire world but you dont know when its going to happen

The irony in Deano's posts is priceless.

Originally posted by chithappens
Scientifically, none of the governments claims about the attacks make sense - the flukiest being how the Pentagon was hit. I thought the towers were odd but anyone who has rode a plane should know there is something odd about the "attack" on the Pentagon.

Yea there is something odd, a plane crashing in to a government building doesn't happen every day...

Yeah and we still have not seen it at all despite all the cameras around the Pentagon itself and in public areas like highways. No roof damage although commercial airlines are unable to dip that fast and then go straight, stuff like that.

Scientifically, nothing about the Pentagon strike is possible as they explain it.

*stamps*

"EXPORT TO CONSAPIRACY FORUM"

Originally posted by chithappens

Scientifically, nothing about the Pentagon strike is possible as they explain it.

wow, you know more about this science than engineers, aviation experts or any other expert in their respective fields. Not least of which are the middle east experts.



maybe the line "The scientific community is wrong because I know better" should throw up some red flags to you.

Didn't take long for a "government incompetence" thread to turn into "9/11, ANOTHER CHESS MOVE INTO ILLUMINATI GLOBAL DOMINATION!" or "9/11, AN INSIDE JOB!".

Originally posted by jaden101
when exactly?

i mean...you can figure out all the shadow alien governments elaborate plots and ploys to rule over the entire world but you dont know when its going to happen

you can see it now actually. its happening now.

totatlitarian tiptoe

Originally posted by Deano
you can see it now actually. its happening now.

totatlitarian tiptoe

What do you plan on doing about it? Since you're the one who's head isn't in "the sand" and is in 'the know'...

Originally posted by inimalist
wow, you know more about this science than engineers, aviation experts or any other expert in their respective fields. Not least of which are the middle east experts.



maybe the line "The scientific community is wrong because I know better" should throw up some red flags to you.

"The scientific community is wrong because I know better," is waaaaaaaay different than, "Scientifically, nothing about the Pentagon strike is possible as they explain it."

At least quote me correctly. Obviously, I'm saying the story got skewed.

Firstly, father's a mechanical engineer with a background in aerodynamics and it was my initial chose as a major once I started college so I'm not just talking out my ass. In this case, a lot of things do not need scientific explanation, just simple common sense to understand.

When I saw the towers fall live on TV, I remember being real upset because I was thinking half of the surrounding blocks would be destroyed. They fell straight down and before investigating anything scientifically, I knew something was off.

Second, the scientific experts across the nation flip flopped a few times about "how" the towers fell in the months afterwards.

Third, I'm not calling it an inside job. I'm calling the government out is all. If you find a paper passport of one of the terrorist before you find the black box from the plane among the wreckage of the towers, you will easily have me skeptical of everything coming from you afterwards.

Fourth, I read the 9/11 commission crap, the report of how the towers fell from chosen scientists the government chose to do the report (can't remember the name of it; I would paraphrase it but no one would believe me since they think I'm a kook now) which includes explaining that petroleum fire can bend steel without being in a controlled environment (even then, no).

I did not just say that out of nowhere. I'm just saying something has been off from the beginning. Everything is not a conspiracy just because we all do not agree. At this point, it is well known that the government lied. I think the rabbit hole is a little deeper.

Originally posted by Deano
you can see it now actually. its happening now.

totatlitarian tiptoe

aaahhh...i see...you mean all that "talking cctv" malarky...its all becoming clear

because despite all these freedoms we've supposedly had taken away...i, and noone i know, has noticed any difference in our lives whatsoever

Originally posted by jaden101
aaahhh...i see...you mean all that "talking cctv" malarky...its all becoming clear

because despite all these freedoms we've supposedly had taken away...i, and noone i know, has noticed any difference in our lives whatsoever

You know about the One Percent Doctrine?

Originally posted by Alliance
*stamps*

"EXPORT TO CONSAPIRACY FORUM"

Hey, there's no need for that. We could just ban the idiots and my thread can stay nice and cosy where it belongs cry

Originally posted by Syren
We could just ban the idiots

As long as you're content with being the only participant in the thread, then I say it's a good idea.

I've participated in about 1/2 dozen of these threads. 9/11: WTC story- fairly legitimate. 9/11: Pentagon story - some heavy bullshit.

Originally posted by Devil King
I've participated in about 1/2 dozen of these threads. 9/11: WTC story- fairly legitimate. 9/11: Pentagon story - some heavy bullshit. Interesting hmm

Originally posted by chithappens
Second, the scientific experts across the nation flip flopped a few times about "how" the towers fell in the months afterwards.


Excuse me...I didn't know media hype being supplanted by a "we did tests and now we are confident" qualifies as a flip flop.

Originally posted by chithappens
Fourth, I read the 9/11 commission crap, the report of how the towers fell from chosen scientists the government chose to do the report (can't remember the name of it; I would paraphrase it but no one would believe me since they think I'm a kook now) which includes explaining that petroleum fire can bend steel without being in a controlled environment (even then, no).

The actual tests and official scientific report were published AFTER the 9-11 commission report. Should they have forgone conclusions? Yes...but you can't critique them for not including something that hadn't been completed yet.

Originally posted by Alliance
Excuse me...I didn't know media hype being supplanted by a "we did tests and now we are confident" qualifies as a flip flop.



The actual tests and official scientific report were published AFTER the 9-11 commission report. Should they have forgone conclusions? Yes...but you can't critique them for not including something that hadn't been completed yet.

I would agree with you except scienitific experts don't even say anything about that before checking it out themselves and being certain themselves (it could be wrong but they will report it if they think they are right; this would many a nice amount of scientists made the wrong calculations and deductions). Scientist disagree about stuff all the time.

But if what you said was the case, everyone would be apologizing all the time for mistakes. No one reports stuff without certainty (individually).

And to be clear as to why this is a little more fishy, no one was able to do tests on the parts of the frame that "melted down." The government took all the valuable fragments away that would have showed how exactly the frames of the towers started to bend in ways that have never happened ever in history.

I see what you mean but no "expert" is going to just put his name out there, CERTAINLY not a tragedy like 9/11. It would ruin a career to have a story opposite of the "official" story.

Originally posted by jaden101
aaahhh...i see...you mean all that "talking cctv" malarky...its all becoming clear

because despite all these freedoms we've supposedly had taken away...i, and noone i know, has noticed any difference in our lives whatsoever

Look up the meaning of the word "hegemony".

Originally posted by chithappens
I would agree with you except scienitific experts don't even say anything about that before checking it out themselves and being certain themselves (it could be wrong but they will report it if they think they are right; this would many a nice amount of scientists made the wrong calculations and deductions). Scientist disagree about stuff all the time.

But if what you said was the case, everyone would be apologizing all the time for mistakes. No one reports stuff without certainty (individually).

And to be clear as to why this is a little more fishy, no one was able to do tests on the parts of the frame that "melted down." The government took all the valuable fragments away that would have showed how exactly the frames of the towers started to bend in ways that have never happened ever in history.

I see what you mean but no "expert" is going to just put his name out there, CERTAINLY not a tragedy like 9/11. It would ruin a career to have a story opposite of the "official" story.

dude, wtf are you talking about?

If any scientist could find factual evidence that supported the 9-11 conspiracy theory, they would be instantly famous and rich. They would most likely win the Nobel Peace Prize, hundreds of other awards, and would have the notoriety of being the only one smart enough to see through the government facade.

Also, popular mechanics, among others, have done independent research into the major claims of the conspiracy theorists and have found them to hold no scientific grounds. All the evidence is suppositional or deductive at best, and for the most part, it focuses on irrelevant facts to try and mislead people to focus on the trees to miss the forest. The greatest example of this is the idea that "fire can't melt steel". Without getting too in depth, the factuality of that statement is irrelevant. Nobody would claim that fire alone brought down the towers, and it is intellectually dishonest to make this straw man.

And seriously, this isn't quantum physics. What happened on 9-11 is not on any scale as complex as the idea of punctuated equilibrium or universal inflation. At the VERY least, to believe that this was a US inside job is to pretty much dismiss the entire field of Middle Eastern Studies.

How many scientists do you know?

Originally posted by inimalist
dude, wtf are you talking about?

If any scientist could find factual evidence that supported the 9-11 conspiracy theory, they would be instantly famous and rich. They would most likely win the Nobel Peace Prize, hundreds of other awards, and would have the notoriety of being the only one smart enough to see through the government facade.



The same reason Colin Powell could not say nothing even though he was spewing lies to the UN. He knew that was all bull he was setting up for the Iraq war.

Originally posted by inimalist


Also, popular mechanics, among others, have done independent research into the major claims of the conspiracy theorists and have found them to hold no scientific grounds. All the evidence is suppositional or deductive at best, and for the most part, it focuses on irrelevant facts to try and mislead people to focus on the trees to miss the forest. The greatest example of this is the idea that "fire can't melt steel". Without getting too in depth, the factuality of that statement is irrelevant. Nobody would claim that fire alone brought down the towers, and it is intellectually dishonest to make this straw man.

And seriously, this isn't quantum physics. What happened on 9-11 is not on any scale as complex as the idea of punctuated equilibrium or universal inflation. At the VERY least, to believe that this was a US inside job is to pretty much dismiss the entire field of Middle Eastern Studies.

How many scientists do you know?

I didn't say inside job. I said the government lied.

I know a good amount of scientists. I would not just say it with no real idea of what I was talking about.

Originally posted by chithappens
The same reason Colin Powell could not say nothing even though he was spewing lies to the UN. He knew that was all bull he was setting up for the Iraq war.

How is that remotely the same thing? Powell worked for an ideologically motivated government, scientists are allowed to research whatever they want. Sure they have to get funding, but for tenured or long time profs and scientists, they can get it for generally whatever they want.

Science is, for the most part, independent. Where this line gets blurred is when the science is presented to the public through media sources. The media itself is a terrible place to get any information.

Originally posted by chithappens
I didn't say inside job. I said the government lied.

I agree with you on that. Of course the government lied. However, the scientific and other inquisitively minded individuals also tested the claims of the government. This is why it was revealed that the Bush administration missed years worth of evidence leading up to this attack.

You a making a very common mistake that people with in-group ideologies like this tend to make. You believe that everyone that disagrees with you holds the same viewpoint.

The scientific community and other rational people believe that the government is lying and that conspiracy theories are bogus. Both for the same reasons, that is what the evidence shows.

Originally posted by chithappens
I know a good amount of scientists. I would not just say it with no real idea of what I was talking about.

You are saying that the scientists you know would not break the story if they had irrefutable evidence to prove it?

You think there are engineers, fire and demolition experts out there that can absolutely prove that there are lies in the government story and just sit on them because they are afraid that it will ruin their career?

Really, think, when has exposing a government cover-up ever ruined someone's career?

Originally posted by Alliance
Excuse me...I didn't know media hype being supplanted by a "we did tests and now we are confident" qualifies as a flip flop.



The actual tests and official scientific report were published AFTER the 9-11 commission report. Should they have forgone conclusions? Yes...but you can't critique them for not including something that hadn't been completed yet.

That sig is amazing!

Wow, another wasted thread. Why? Why?


Whoever beleives this total BS is dumbass. You can hate the prez all you want you are still an idiot for beleiving this. Its what you call video editing and someone with too much time on their hands.

Originally posted by chithappens
I would agree with you except scienitific experts don't even say anything about that before checking it out themselves and being certain themselves (it could be wrong but they will report it if they think they are right; this would many a nice amount of scientists made the wrong calculations and deductions). Scientist disagree about stuff all the time.
Wrong again. People love to say things before conclusions are made...sometimes we forget we are scientists. Scientists may not have even been the ones to propose the failed "pancake collapse" theory.

Originally posted by chithappens
But if what you said was the case, everyone would be apologizing all the time for mistakes. No one reports stuff without certainty (individually).

Perhaps you should re-vist the modern media...people say stupid shit all the time...aliens, etc. People may be doing it honestly...but they THINK they saw something and thier mind creates a story around it.

Originally posted by chithappens
And to be clear as to why this is a little more fishy, no one was able to do tests on the parts of the frame that "melted down." The government took all the valuable fragments away that would have showed how exactly the frames of the towers started to bend in ways that have never happened ever in history.

No tower in history was strcutured like the trade center. Unique design caused unique collapse. The truss theory is viable. The scientific community has upheld it.

Originally posted by chithappens
I see what you mean but no "expert" is going to just put his name out there, CERTAINLY not a tragedy like 9/11. It would ruin a career to have a story opposite of the "official" story. People do all the time...why do you think some scientists like Behe support intelligent design? There is always a scientist dumb enought ot support radical/unbased theories.

Originally posted by J-Beowulf
That sig is amazing!

Thanks.

I found the answer....the oreo company did it...bin ladin is off the hook

i love oreos. double stuff, thats my poison.

Originally posted by chithappens
I don't blame you there. I browsed through the threads and there was no moderate discussion of any sort going on.

I haven't seen the movie but have done enough research on my own to know that the "official" story handed to us by the government is complete bullshit and is disrespectful to a handful of scientific standards and even simple logic.

exactly.well said.

Originally posted by inimalist
There are many misleading things about documentaries.

The biggest thing to remember is that, as a film, it is subject to the freedom of speech. There is no review board aside from the production company, which in this case has a history of publishing highly biased films with regard to government conspiracy.

There is a fantastic film by this French documentary maker called "Dark Side of the Moon". It puts forward a VERY persuasive argument for how the moon landing was a hoax and implicated Stanley Kubrick in the plot.

The director of the film has no opinion on the moon landing. Everything in the film is a complete lie, however it is made to show how persuasive a documentary can be, even when the data is 100% false.

However, there are peer reviewed scientific journals that have looked at the 9-11 conspiracy claims. The best I have seen is from Popular Mechanics, found here:http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html.

My take home message would be "know who the source of your truth is".

Please.I wish people would stop using that propaganda government piece popular mechanics as a source to prove the official version correct.For one thing,the forward is written by John Mccain who is a corrupted politician in the first place.Second,there is a new book out that proves that piece by popular mechanics is a bunch of lies.Its called Debunking the 9-11 Debunking and it debunks all the lies mentioned in popular mechanics.Its written by David Ray Griffin.He has written a couple other books on the subject as well called The New Pearl harbour-disturbing questions about the Bush administration and 9-11 and another one called-The 9-11 Commission Report.Omissions and Distortions.If you want to learn the truth about 9-11,then start reading those books and stop listening to the propaganda by the government like that popular mechanics source.Geez.

Chit Happens great job of educating these people and taking them to school.

Originally posted by inimalist
dude, wtf are you talking about?

If any scientist could find factual evidence that supported the 9-11 conspiracy theory, they would be instantly famous and rich. They would most likely win the Nobel Peace Prize, hundreds of other awards, and would have the notoriety of being the only one smart enough to see through the government facade.

Also, popular mechanics, among others, have done independent research into the major claims of the conspiracy theorists and have found them to hold no scientific grounds. All the evidence is suppositional or deductive at best, and for the most part, it focuses on irrelevant facts to try and mislead people to focus on the trees to miss the forest. The greatest example of this is the idea that "fire can't melt steel". Without getting too in depth, the factuality of that statement is irrelevant. Nobody would claim that fire alone brought down the towers, and it is intellectually dishonest to make this straw man.

And seriously, this isn't quantum physics. What happened on 9-11 is not on any scale as complex as the idea of punctuated equilibrium or universal inflation. At the VERY least, to believe that this was a US inside job is to pretty much dismiss the entire field of Middle Eastern Studies.

How many scientists do you know?

Oh please,give me a break.The scientists that HAVE spoken out that it was an inside job by the government have been told to shup up or have lost jobs.Not only that,firemen and policemen have had their lives threatened for not going along with the official version.and again people STOP USING POPULAR MECHANICS AS A SOURCE.The forward in that popular mechanics article was written by John Mccain who is an extremely corrupted politician.He was pressured by the veitnam veterans after the war to try and bring vietnam vets back home and he basically gave them the middle finger and ignored them.That should tell you something about the credibility of popular mechanics and like he said,they basically selected these so called independent investigaters who actually were not independent-they're companies were all connected with government contracts.it was an inside job as any person with logic or common sense knows.countless numbers of demolition experts were bothered by the freefall collapse of the towers.They have said that should never have happened unless it was due to explosives.wake up and smell the folgers.

Do you think anybody here has ever heard of the concept "hegemony"?