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All at their max. Anything goes, with the exception of Kun's bloody amulet. I say maybe team 1.

Either could do it alone, quite easily.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Either could do it alone, quite easily.

Not happening.

However, Maul, despite being very powerful, is a weak link in force powers (in this fight), and either opponent could defeat him with force powers while the other held off Dooku. Then Dooku loses in a two on one match.


However, Maul and Dooku most definitely stand a chance in a saber confrontation.

Not really. Even in a lightsaber battle, I'd definitely bet on Bane alone beating both of them together, with quite a lot of ease as well. Now I think I made a pretty good case for even PoD Bane being above Anakin in sabers by quite a high margin (and Anakin himself is quite firmly above either Maul or Dooku), so when you factor in the major power surge he gains in BotS, and the benefits gained from the orbalisk armour, I'd go as far as even saying that Bane would own them in a saber confrontation, he's just that much better than either of them.

Maul is always underrated. He was Sidious' vision of the perfect Martial weapon come alive.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Anoon Bondara was "one of the best fighters in the order. His skill with a lightsaber was second to none."
Darsha Assant "even as an infant she had shown strong Force tendencies," and the day she went to become a Jedi Knight, she "hoped that one day she might be able to exhibit a tenth of Anoon Bondara's adeptness."
When Maul fought Anoon, Maul knew "within the first few moments of the engagement, Darth Maul knew that he himself was the superior fighter."
For Darsha, "It was hard for her to conceive of a situation in which her mentor could be bested in combat, but if anyone was capable of it, she had the feeling the Sith was that one."
Maul made quick work of Anoon, driving him back and then, Anoon, realizing after seconds of confrontation, that he didn't have nearly enough skills to take on Maul, stabbed a speeder bike's engine in attempt to kill both of them. However, in the "microsecond" that Maul had to jump off the platform that the two had been battling on to dodge the explosion, Maul was out of harms way.


I f Maul is put on the defensive, he has the speed to dodge pretty much everything that's thrown at him, or he can spin his twin blades "so fast they seemed to merge into a crimson shield."

Also, read through this: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=001
If the fact that it's 90 pages of flipping through turns you off, remember that it's a comic, and, it's about Maul, so naturally, the dialogue is minimal, and, it really doesn't take long.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Maul just stomped on the Jedi's battle master, Anoon Bondara, in seconds, who's skills were "second to none." Maul left piles upon piles of bodies in his wake when he attacked the Black Sun. He killed 7 elite Vigos in what? One second? Two maybe? He dominated the fight with Qui Gon and Obi Wan, running circles around them, and leading them to the generator pit place. He killed a focused Qui Gon in 30 seconds, when Maul had a bad ankle, I think. Maul's everyday exercises would kill an average Jedi. Maul is a Teras Kasi Master. Maul "mastered the lightsaber." Maul had "far superior darkside knowledge" than a Nightsister. Maul was a warrior in his prime.


Ands who says the Orbalisks don't slow Bane down in combat? They do have some weight, and in the DSSB, it says that they do (although, it is represented in stat form).

Maybe after a long battle, team one.

They do add on some weight, sure, but that doesn't matter, given the constant pumping in of adrenaline and darkside energies, and the strengthening of his muscles. The pros far outweight the cons.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
They do add on some weight, sure, but that doesn't matter, given the constant pumping in of adrenaline and darkside energies, and the strengthening of his muscles. The pros far outweight the cons.

Agreed, the protection and darkside energies do outweigh the decrease in maneuverability and speed. As long as you would recognize the cons to having them.

The same can be said for Vader's armor!

But I'm actually talking entirely in respect to speed. The strengthening of his muscles, coupled along with the constant input of adrenaline and darkside energies would all increase his speed by an exponential degree. He's MUCH faster with the orbalisks than he is without them, and in terms of maneuverability, it's not like the orbalisks are bulky or anything, they wouldn't make too much of a difference.

Vader's armor also pumped darkside energies into him...

This is an unbalanced fight. You better put Mace instead of Maul.

Where's that said? Anyways, it still doesn't compare to the adrenaline and strengthening of muscles that Bane also received on top of the darkside energies, as well as his superior force strength and mastery, and capabilities to use the force to amp up his speed.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Where's that said? Anyways, it still doesn't compare to the adrenaline and strengthening of muscles that Bane also received on top of the darkside energies, as well as his superior force strength and mastery, and capabilities to use the force to amp up his speed.

DSSB.

Prove it.

He can't. He speaks rubbish

I doubt Kun could do it alone. Bane, maybe, because of the Orbalisk Armor. Together, however, they have this easily.

ROFL@Bane tooling Dooku. Even with the Orbalisks Dooku is superior to Bane. However, Kun is superior to Maul and in a force fight those two would win.

Yea, in a all out fight, Kun and Bane take this, but its not a ownage.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
DSSB.

Well I just read under the 'Darth Vader's Armour' entree, and that's not what it actually says.

Darth Vader wears a unique set of dark armor. It is the equivalent of padded battle armor, imbued with dark side power through sith alchemical techniques

All that is, is that Vader's armour was constructed using sith alchemy, and it's the amour which is made stronger. It's completely different from Vader himself being pumped up with darkside energies.



Prove it? Well seeing as both are receiving the darkside energies (Vader's not as I've shown above, but I'll work under the assumption that he was just to argue this point), and Bane's receiving even more powerups beside that, it's pretty obvious, there's not really anything to prove.

IS BANES AMOUR BETTER OR DOES VADER HAVE BETTER AMORE!!!!!!?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
ROFL@Bane tooling Dooku. Even with the Orbalisks Dooku is superior to Bane. However, Kun is superior to Maul and in a force fight those two would win.
Are you kidding me? Bane, with less than a year of training, was close to Kas'im. Kas'im is ahead of Dooku. PoD Bane is at least close to Dooku. Give him Orbalisks and several mroe years of training and you have him far above Dooku.

Bane is miles beyond Dooku. Sirak himself I would rate above Dooku, and Bane completely outclassed him, and Bane was still a student at the academy at the time.

thats just wrong


Exar and Bane do win this, Dooku could give trouble to either, but he could not take both, or Exar alone, and Maul is certainly the weakest of the 4 and would not last long.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bane is miles beyond Dooku. Sirak himself I would rate above Dooku, and Bane completely outclassed him, and Bane was still a student at the academy at the time.
I doubt Sirak is above Dooku. PoD bane owned Sirak, and that wasn't even at the end of the book, I doubt PoD bane could own Dooku, even at the end, it'd be very difficulty for Bane to beat Dooku at all. Nah, Sirak ain't above Dooku, I'd put him slightly above AOTC Anakin and Kenobi. Maybe on Kit Fisto's level at the most.

Yeah, but imho, Bane was just that good by that time. Sirak was pretty powerful; he'd mastered multiple forms, it was said that he could master some sequences that it would take the other students weeks to learn, in hours so he was quite the prodigy, and he was pretty insanely fast too, stated to be able to move in blurs (not even Yoda could move in blurs).

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Yeah, but imho, Bane was just that good by that time. Sirak was pretty powerful; he'd mastered multiple forms, it was said that he could master some sequences that it would take the other students weeks to learn, in hours so he was quite the prodigy, and he was pretty insanely fast too, stated to be able to move in blurs (not even Yoda could move in blurs).

Lmao, dude. "Sirak above Dooku"? Right... Dooku was "one of the greatest Jedi in the history's order" and an "even greater Sith Lord". He is considered the greatest of the Lost Twenty and the Temple's most "learned" student.

Please. Dooku would ASSrape Sirak.

Relying on these quotes quite simply shows that you can't do so using in-story evidence. Dooku would not assrape Sirak. Sirak could move at speeds beyond what Yoda could, was quite the prodigy, and had mastered multiple forms, and could switch between them during combat. I'd put him above Dooku, he was likely one of the strongest in the entire BoD.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Well I just read under the 'Darth Vader's Armour' entree, and that's not what it actually says.

Darth Vader wears a unique set of dark armor. It is the equivalent of padded battle armor, imbued with dark side power through sith alchemical techniques

All that is, is that Vader's armour was constructed using sith alchemy, and it's the amour which is made stronger. It's completely different from Vader himself being pumped up with darkside energies.



Prove it? Well seeing as both are receiving the darkside energies (Vader's not as I've shown above, but I'll work under the assumption that he was just to argue this point), and Bane's receiving even more powerups beside that, it's pretty obvious, there's not really anything to prove.

You're a fool. And a liar.

It does say that, and you've shown that the armor was constructed with Sith Alchemy, not disproved that it actively uses Sith chemicals to enhance Vader regularly. If you had bothered to read past that sentence, you would have found this:

"In addition to these attributes, the life support system is irrigated with Sith-crafted chemicals that enhance Vader's strength and constitution.
Two bloody sentences after.

Notice how it says in addition? That means that it is talking about a new aspect, and not being redundant, seeing as how there was one sentence in between the quote you posted and the one I posted. Also, you will notice that they are referring to different things.

And Darth "I can crush a lightsaber with my bare hands" Vader's mechanically enhanced base strength is greater than Bane's.

Thank you for playing.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Relying on these quotes quite simply shows that you can't do so using in-story evidence. Dooku would not assrape Sirak. Sirak could move at speeds beyond what Yoda could, was quite the prodigy, and had mastered multiple forms, and could switch between them during combat. I'd put him above Dooku, he was likely one of the strongest in the entire BoD.

Nebaris, the omniscient narrator of the RotS novelization (G-canon, which means that it takes precedent over everything but the movies and George Lucas) confirms in Dooku's introduction that he was one of the greatest Jedi in history, and an even greater Dark Lord of the Sith. The AotC Visual Dictionary confirms him to be the greatest of the Lost Twenty because "the Force was so strong in him". And, lastly, Yoda claimed that Dooku was the "most learned" student of the Temple.

This is irrefutable.

Furthermore, Chee confirmed that the speeds in the movies do not contradict the EU speeds, period. But I suppose you forgot that part when you were in a hurry to try to discredit my quote about Sidious.

Lol, dude, calm down, I can assure you my intentions weren't dishonest, I just couldn't be arsed to address the second statement, as I honestly thought it was the first one that you were referring to, and believed it was unnecessary.

Anyways, Sith-crafted chemicals do not equate to darkside energies, and given that we were actually arguing speed, what you brought up is essentially irrelevant, given that these chemicals only enhanced his strength and constitution.



You do realise that we're arguing speed here, and not strength? You didn't fall asleep halfway through the argument again, did you JollyJimbo?

Anyways, you would only have an argument if Bane showed a lack of strength required to pull off such a feat. The fact is, he has:

1. Incredible natural physical strength, beyond that of Vader's.

2. Force strength and mastery (used to amplify physical strength) superior to that of Vader's, as well as lighter limbs, which would require less force power to affect.

3. Adrenaline constantly being pumped into his body (which would increase his strength).

4. Muscles constantly being strengthened.

5. Darkside energies constantly being pumped into his body (which can be used to augment his strength), which would be superior to the sith crafted chemicals Vader received, given the constant input.

Bane's stronger than Vader, get over it.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nebaris, the omniscient narrator of the RotS novelization (G-canon, which means that it takes precedent over everything but the movies and George Lucas) confirms in Dooku's introduction that he was one of the greatest Jedi in history, and an even greater Dark Lord of the Sith. The AotC Visual Dictionary confirms him to be the greatest of the Lost Twenty because "the Force was so strong in him". And, lastly, Yoda claimed that Dooku was the "most learned" student of the Temple.

This is irrefutable.

What don't you get about none of that applying to Sirak? Sirak was never a jedi. Sirak was never one of the lost 20. The 'even greater sith' quote means squat. Dooku's superiority over Sirak can't be argued over out-of-universe quotes anyway, let alone in-universe evidence.



What is your point? Dooku's speed remains roughly the same throughout both the movies and EU, so you're bringing this up in the wrong discussion.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
you're bringing this up in the wrong discussion.

Indeed. This discussion is about this Plo-Koon.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Bane is miles beyond Dooku. Sirak himself I would rate above Dooku, and Bane completely outclassed him, and Bane was still a student at the academy at the time.

Except for the fact that Dooku would saber rape Bane.

Because Sirak essentially amounts to a little corn on a tiny piece of crap in the grand scheme of things; Dooku isn't.



Correct. Nor was he ever established as a "truly powerful Sith" in the grand scheme of things.



Correct. But Dooku was, and was the greatest loss of these twenty.



This is where you're wrong. The RotS novelization (G-Canon, something that you nor your opinion aren't) establishes Dooku to be "an even greater Sith" by way of the omniscient narrator. You telling me "no, it means squat!" truly means squat, because it's there and it's irrefutable. And - to quote Queen - "there's nothin' you can do about it!" (great song by the way, "Headlong"



What part of "this was said by the omniscient narrator" do you not understand?



Dooku's speed is, thus, not necessarily slower than Sirak's. Period. And, if you think that this (Dooku's movie and EU speed being the same), I'd suggest reading... oh... just about every novel or comic in which Dooku features.

Y'know, considering Dooku is the most powerful of the Lost 20, putting him well above Darth Ruin, the man who FOUNDED Sirak's Sith Order...you want to argue Sirak was stronger than Jedi Masters and Dark Lords?