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Shaman from Alpha Flight vs Shaman X-Man from X-Man

No Prep
No Jobbing
No PIS
No CIS
In Character

Originally posted by id369
Shaman from Alpha Flight vs Shaman X-Man from X-Man

No Prep
No Jobbing
No PIS
No CIS
In Character

nate

Shaman Alpha Flight quite easily. Nate would not survive a universe "popping" item attack.

No, as Shaman merely can say "shush" and freeze time

Shaman has shown such high level telepathy communicating lightyears away from Earth, he is no sloutch in telepathy.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No, as Shaman merely can say "shush" and freeze time
He'll be mind wiped before he can say that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He'll be mind wiped before he can say that.

No he wouldn't at all since Shaman is a telepath himself

Don't mind Mungi. He's clearly biased.

Nate wins.

Originally posted by Validus
Don't mind Mungi. He's clearly biased.

Nate wins.

Are you kidding me? I often say when an AF is outclassed, and here he is far from it. When Shaman Nate can save all realties which Shaman AF did then we can talk.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Are you kidding me?
Duh ermmnone

Originally posted by Validus
Duh ermmnone

I couldn't tell
===
Anyways here Shaman telepathically communicating with Talisman on whatever planet they were on during Infinity War to Earth

1. http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/A_Flight8/AlphaFlight111-09.jpg
2. http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/A_Flight8/AlphaFlight111-10.jpg
3. http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i48/A_Flight8/AlphaFlight111-22.jpg

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I couldn't tell

That's because you're racist. baka

Do you think that Shaman could beat Dr. Strange?

Jeroen wins.

He's a Shaman, too.....

Originally posted by Validus
That's because you're racist. baka

Not in public

Originally posted by King Kandy
Do you think that Shaman could beat Dr. Strange?

No, Shaman's good but Strange is better. His daughter Talisman is said to be Strange's equal, but not him.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No, as Shaman merely can say "shush" and freeze time

As to Nate can immobilize the enemy via TK.
*"Telekinetically moved some of the chemicals in your brain around, shut down a few secretors." (X-Man #63)

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Shaman has shown such high level telepathy communicating lightyears away from Earth, he is no sloutch in telepathy.
Nate is often regarded as one of the biggest Telepaths on earth. Able to sense aggressive thoughts eve if its from an alternate reality Earth.


Originally posted by King_Mungi
No he wouldn't at all since Shaman is a telepath himself
We have seen how he handled a group of telepaths working to gether.

*Can break through telepathic blocks effortlessly -- "Don't get me wrong. Your telepathic blocks are excellent. But you've never met anyone like me before." (X-Man #64)
*The "Gauntlet", a group of powerful mutants, said that "the power you radiate is unbelievable." (X-Man #64)
*His power is so great that telepathic blocks are almost nothing to him -- "If I pushed your blocks any harder, I'd turn you into vegetables. I don't want to do that." (X-Man #64)

Originally posted by id369
As to Nate can immobilize the enemy via TK.
*"Telekinetically moved some of the chemicals in your brain around, shut down a few secretors." (X-Man #63)

Nate is often regarded as one of the biggest Telepaths on earth. Able to sense aggressive thoughts eve if its from an alternate reality Earth.

We have seen how he handled a group of telepaths working to gether.

*Can break through telepathic blocks effortlessly -- "Don't get me wrong. Your telepathic blocks are excellent. But you've never met anyone like me before." (X-Man #64)
*The "Gauntlet", a group of powerful mutants, said that "the power you radiate is unbelievable." (X-Man #64)
*His power is so great that telepathic blocks are almost nothing to him -- "If I pushed your blocks any harder, I'd turn you into vegetables. I don't want to do that." (X-Man #64)

and Shaman is a highly skilled TK user, plus time manipulation, universe popping attacks, atomic bomb blast absorption. Shaman has so much vartiety over Nate it's ridiculous

Shaman did it again when he was on Paradise during Infinity Crusade.

and? all that and he didn't own them which people said he would with a thought. Shaman has attacks that can defeat Nate in a split second, while Nate doesn't.

EDIT:
Also to note Shaman can ask spirits to aid him in battle, such as the spirit of time and space

Oh hell, look at what Shaman can do. He has so much variety:
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Shaman

Originally posted by King_Mungi
and Shaman is a highly skilled TK user, plus time manipulation, universe popping attacks, atomic bomb blast absorption. Shaman has so much vartiety over Nate ridiculous



Nate ability to wild Telepathy, Telekinesis and Psy powers are ridicules.
It has no end to how flexible his powers are given the range and finite control he exerts.

Able to connect a Silver City dweller's mind across her fractured selves across the multiverse.

And to say he shows no vearity in his powers would be underestimating someone that can telekinetically control matter at a sub atomic level, effortlessly crush other telepaths telepathically, psy manifest solid and organic constructs from sheer will.

Originally posted by King_Mungi

Shaman did it again when he was on Paradise during Infinity Crusade.

and? all that and he didn't own them which people said he would with a thought. Shaman has attacks that can defeat Nate in a split second, while Nate doesn't.

Telepathy does not stop Telekinesis. TK shutting Shaman neural sections is well within reason.

Originally posted by id369
Nate ability to wild Telepathy, Telekinesis and Psy powers is ridicules.
It has no end to how flexible his powers are given the range and finite control he exerts.

Able to connect a Silver City dweller's mind across her fractured selves across the multiverse.

And to say he shows no vearity in his powers would be underestimating someone that can telekinetically control matter at a sub atomic level, effortlessly crush other telepaths telepathically, psy manifest solid and organic constructs from sheer will.

Telepathy does not stop Telekinesis. TK shutting Shaman neural sections is well within reason.

Good for him, but one throw and Shaman tossed a handful of baubles on an Elder God that made the universe itself seem to pop "like a soap bubble on a thorn"

Good for him, but Shaman has also telepathically linked in different dimensions as well. You really have no idea what Shaman can do, do you?

Shaman can summon supernatural spirits, threaten the universe with the Void, saved all reality from Carcass from the Unmasking, control over the weather, control over elements, high level telepathy, high level telekinesis, time manipulation (time stoppage, time travel, premontitons), super hero duplication, sheilds that can block physical and telepathy attacks since he taught Withfire, dust that can stop people from using telepathy (Clouding Dust), steal people's souls, absorb things into the Void such as an atomic blast, instantly stop things from flying, dust that instantly puts people to sleep, army summong-stone golems, wood totems, spells that make people feel their worse fears, etc. etc. etc. Nate is outclassed.

That's nice, but Shaman has telepathy AND TK.

Here an exhausted Shaman who was teleporting hundreds of people away from the potential blast site for hours absorbs into his pouch Newfoundland, Alpha Flight, Avengers, People's Proctate.. oh and an atomic blast...oh and in seconds.

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_01_rougher.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_02_rougher.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_03_rougher.jpg
4. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_04_rougher.jpg
5. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_05_rougher.jpg
6. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_06_rougher.jpg

EDIT: Seriously if a being that threatened to destroy all reality and Elder Gods couldn't instantly defeat Shaman why the heck would Nate succeded when others vastly stronger than him have failed? Logic dictates Nate won't, while Shaman has attacks that can take him out in seconds. Nate has superior TP and TK, but Shaman is no sloutch and can easily hang with him, but he wouldn't even need to go that route with his various spells that could even leave Nate powerless

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Here an exhausted Shaman who was teleporting hundreds of people away from the potential blast site for hours absorbs into his pouch Newfoundland, Alpha Flight, Avengers, People's Proctate.. oh and an atomic blast...oh and in seconds.

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_01_rougher.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_02_rougher.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_03_rougher.jpg
4. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_04_rougher.jpg
5. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_05_rougher.jpg
6. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_06_rougher.jpg


Nate was able to teleport himself and 3 others unconsciously to an alternate earth. While still protecting them within a TK field and filtering/processing molecules to make breathable air.



Originally posted by King_Mungi

EDIT: Seriously if a being that threatened to destroy all reality and Elder Gods couldn't instantly defeat Shaman why the heck would Nate succeded when others vastly stronger than him have failed?

The same Elders Gods that Nate defeated right?

Originally posted by King_Mungi

Logic dictates Nate won't, while Shaman has attacks that can take him out in seconds.
And vice versa. Nate has shown to take down entire cities with a single thought.
Shaman, despite his arrange of spells and items at his deposal. Can not physically tank these kinds of attacks.


Originally posted by King_Mungi

Nate has superior TP and TK, but Shaman is no sloutch and can easily hang with him,

No not really. Being overwhelmed is simply that. Unless you are a TP/TK of his level, there is no hanging on.



Originally posted by King_Mungi

but he wouldn't even need to go that route with his various spells that could even leave Nate powerless

Ok I see, so instead of putting up a TP/TK match against Nate.
He will instead attempt to place a spell or reach into his bag.

Thus leaving him open to a wide open TP/TK attack.

It comes down to who can get their action of the ground first. My money is on Nate.
No need to Say Sush. Speed of thought>>>Reaction time.

Nate's a mutant, right? I wonder what would happen to him if Shaman threw this spell his way...

Spell of Bionatural Equilibrium: A spell pulled from the pouch, which can be used to transform, mutated or manipulated human beings back into their normal states. Talisman used this spell from to revert The Master's Remnant Men to normal.

From the "Alphanex" link so graciously provided by Mungi...

EDIT: Not sure this spell would work on Nate, since he was born a mutant and not later altered, but it would be an interesting thing for Shaman to try...

Originally posted by id369
Nate was able to teleport himself and 3 others unconsciously to an alternate earth. While still protecting them within a TK field and filtering/processing molecules to make breathable air.

haha and? Shaman has teleported 7 people to the Realm of the Beasts, 5 people to the Land of the Dead, and when Madison Jeffries was drowning in the water he summoned the spirit of air saving Jeffries giving him breathable air. Basically you say feats, Shaman has done.


Originally posted by id369

The same Elders Gods that Nate defeated right?

No, and the Great Beasts jobbed, plus those were avatars anyways. X-MAN would have destroyed Canada with that little feat against Tundra and would have died himself if Madeylne didn't save him. Then later writer ignored the fact they can simply just teleport back. PIS fights do not count on this board.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight01-29.jpg

Originally posted by id369

And vice versa. Nate has shown to take down entire cities with a single thought.
Shaman, despite his arrange of spells and items at his deposal. Can not physically tank these kinds of attacks.

Province>city. Are you seriously implying a city is more than a province. Oh lord. Are you kidding me? He absorbed up a friggin atomic bomb, and with the Void threatened to absorb all of Earth and threaten the universe. Your ignoring facts once again.

If you think he physically can't take those kind of attacks, I suggest you read his fight with Carcass when he saved all reality.

Originally posted by id369

No not really. Being overwhelmed is simply that. Unless you are a TP/TK of his level, there is no hanging on.

Yet, those who were inferior to Nate have hung with him and gave him a serious fight and not once did Nate defeat a high level character like Shaman instantly. Unless you have proof, which you have provided none.

Originally posted by id369

Ok I see, so instead of putting up a TP/TK match against Nate.
He will instead attempt to place a spell or reach into his bag.

Thus leaving him open to a wide open TP/TK attack.

What? no. Without any spells he has defences against tp/tk and his sheilds also protect against telepathy. Shaman has so many defences against Nate he basically makes Nate useless.

Originally posted by id369

It comes down to who can get their action of the ground first. My money is on Nate.
No need to Say Sush. Speed of thought>>>Reaction time.

You would be wrong, as Shaman has enhanced reflexes due to magic

Yet, Nate has to think about attacking and doing it. Plus the fact Nate wouldn't even be owning Shaman in a second, while once again your ignoring Shaman can.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
haha and? Shaman has teleported 7 people to the Realm of the Beasts, 5 people to the Land of the Dead, and when Madison Jeffries was drowning in the water he summoned the spirit of air saving Jeffries giving him breathable air. Basically you say feats, Shaman has done.




No, and the Great Beasts jobbed, plus those were avatars anyways. X-MAN would have destroyed Canada with that little feat against Tundra and would have died himself if Madeylne didn't save him. Then later writer ignored the fact they can simply just teleport back. PIS fights do not count on this board.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/AlphaFlight01-29.jpg



Province>city. Are you seriously implying a city is more than a province. Oh lord. Are you kidding me? He absorbed up a friggin atomic bomb, and with the Void threatened to absorb all of Earth and threaten the universe. Your ignoring facts once again.

If you think he physically can't take those kind of attacks, I suggest you read his fight with Carcass when he saved all reality.



Yet, those who were inferior to Nate have hung with him and gave him a serious fight and not once did Nate defeat a high level character like Shaman instantly. Unless you have proof, which you have provided none.



What? no. Without any spells he has defences against tp/tk and his sheilds also protect against telepathy. Shaman has so many defences against Nate he basically makes Nate useless.



You would be wrong, as Shaman has enhanced reflexes due to magic

Yet, Nate has to think about attacking and doing it. Plus the fact Nate wouldn't even be owning Shaman in a second, while once again your ignoring Shaman can.

I like Nate ftw

Originally posted by guy222
I like Nate ftw

Of course you do, but you admited in another Nate thread you ignore certain things since you like him.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Of course you do, but you admited in another Nate thread you ignore certain things since you like him.

Did I really? Everyone knows, I don't go against the mutants. I know quite a bit about Shaman Nate. I know u know Shaman. Fair enough, if we disagree on this one

Originally posted by guy222
Did I really? Everyone knows, I don't go against the mutants. I know quite a bit about Shaman Nate. I know u know Shaman. Fair enough, if we disagree on this one

I know both characters actually, and thus far Shaman's (AF) feats are far above Nate's.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I know both characters actually, and thus far Shaman's (AF) feats are far above Nate's.

I'm enjoying the show. It's pretty rare to see someone challenge Mungi on AF.
tv_happy Even if they are a 2nd-rate team. jk Mungi.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm enjoying the show. It's pretty rare to see someone challenge Mungi on AF.
tv_happy Even if they are a 2nd-rate team. jk Mungi.

I'm still waiting for the challenge as he really hasn't provided evidence that would actually work, while he ignores things I state.

AF ownzz you and you know it.

Looks like it's been thoroughly proven that Nate wins.

What it comes down to is shaman xman stopping Shamans brain functions "no speaking after that".

In all honesty, who is a more powerful Telepath? Shaman Xman by far.

Shaman is a great telepath yes, and I am sure he has TP shielding, but Nate is going to go right through that.

Originally posted by Board Walker
What it comes down to is shaman xman stopping Shamans brain functions "no speaking after that".

In all honesty, who is a more powerful Telepath? Shaman Xman by far.

Shaman is a great telepath yes, and I am sure he has TP shielding, but Nate is going to go right through that.

Doubtful as Nate has to pass Shaman's natural tp, plus his shields and Shaman would have to do nothing while all this happens. Not happening, especially when Shaman's reflexes are augmented by magic.

One word, "shush" that's all it takes, or one spell that can instantly put Nate down. Shaman has several spells and attacks that can take him out in a second, while Nate doesn't.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Doubtful as Nate has to pass Shaman's natural tp, plus his shields and Shaman would have to do nothing while all this happens. Not happening, especially when Shaman's reflexes are augmented by magic.

One word, "shush" that's all it takes, or one spell that can instantly put Nate down. Shaman has several spells and attacks that can take him out in a second, while Nate doesn't.

shaman xman operates on thought (i never read much of Xman so some one can help with this) and likely faster then thought.

Shaman as far as I know has never shown to operate on super human thought speed.

All nate has to do is subconsciously feel an aggresive action from Shaman (which is far faster then thought or speech), and its all over.

I do think Nate would bypass Shaman's defenses before shaman could speak, but if shaman does speak I don't know if nate would be able to survive; I suppose he could phase to the astral plane, or hope realities.

P.S. I can't truly geniunely debate for either of these characters, I have not read much of either of them; just not my cup of tea.

Nate for the win 7/10

So how many wins do you give nate then king mungi?
i am sure someone of your reputation would not make a spite thread,how do you see it going

Originally posted by Board Walker
shaman xman operates on thought (i never read much of Xman so some one can help with this) and likely faster then thought.

Shaman as far as I know has never shown to operate on super human thought speed.

All nate has to do is subconsciously feel an aggresive action from Shaman (which is far faster then thought or speech), and its all over.

I do think Nate would bypass Shaman's defenses before shaman could speak, but if shaman does speak I don't know if nate would be able to survive; I suppose he could phase to the astral plane, or hope realities.

P.S. I can't truly geniunely debate for either of these characters, I have not read much of either of them; just not my cup of tea.

He doesn't have augmented reflexes, as he has been beaten by people lower than Shaman. Even Department H Silencers took it to him.

Like you said you don't read much of them, but Shaman has out thought Carcass a being that controlled the entire Realm of the Dead and threatened to destroy all reality through the Unmasking. Who saved all of reality? Shaman.

Not correct, Nate has not shown superior reflexes at all. He does not have a good track record against guys with the likes of Shaman.

Shaman doesn't even need to speak to perform his spells, he thinks and it happens as shown when he and Dr.Strange teamed up to fight his evil twin in Infinity Crusade.

Then why are you making claims when you don't know either about?

Originally posted by starlock
Nate for the win 7/10

So how many wins do you give nate then king mungi?
i am sure someone of your reputation would not make a spite thread,how do you see it going

What? how?

I didn't make this thread id369 did and Shaman easily takes the majority

Shaman respect thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=424458&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by King_Mungi
He doesn't have augmented reflexes, as he has been beaten by people lower than Shaman. Even Department H Silencers took it to him.

Like you said you don't read much of them, but Shaman has out thought Carcass a being that controlled the entire Realm of the Dead and threatened to destroy all reality through the Unmasking. Who saved all of reality? Shaman.

Not correct, Nate has not shown superior reflexes at all. He does not have a good track record against guys with the likes of Shaman.

Shaman doesn't even need to speak to perform his spells, he thinks and it happens as shown when he and Dr.Strange teamed up to fight his evil twin in Infinity Crusade.

Then why are you making claims when you don't know either about?



What? how?

I didn't make this thread id369 did and Shaman easily takes the majority

Shaman respect thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=424458&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

I just gave my opinion on what I knew, I already stated I truly couldnt debate for either of them.

Originally posted by starlock
Nate for the win 7/10

So how many wins do you give nate then king mungi?
i am sure someone of your reputation would not make a spite thread,how do you see it going

Hey good buddy. I think Nate wins as well

Shaman has shown for a long period he doesn't need his pouch to summon his spells, but with it he has access to the Void:

http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Void

Shaman has so many ways to take Nate out in seconds, while Nate doesn't.

FYI. I'm going to be gone for the rest of the night and all of tommorow, so won't get back with a reply till tommorow night most likely

edit - never mind

You know what were basically going in circles, nothing has changed. Clearly I think a "shush" is easily sufficient to end this match you don't. I say we agree to disagree as I don't see it ending any time soon.

I havn't read your above message as I have gotten far to frustrated

Nate, he can step in between time after his upgrade.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Actually Shaman has no limits established, as Bryne stated in an interivew.

Marvel Age #2: "If you want to sum it up . . . he's Dr. Strange--but he does it with potions and herbs and little dolls and stuff, instead of just doing it with the power of his mind, the way Strange does. This possibly gives Shaman a slight advantage, I don't know. If he had the tools at hand, he can make just about anything. I don't know if Strange has that kind of power over the physical world."
Bryne is dumb.

So he's like Strange, but has to use tools instead of just his mind, but he may be stronger than Strange because he uses tool? wtf

Originally posted by -K-M-
Nate, he can step in between time after his upgrade. ......

I like how he can erase a portion of a characters memory, while he is in the Planck Length.

Originally posted by Mindset
Bryne is dumb.

So he's like Strange, but has to use tools instead of just his mind, but he may be stronger than Strange because he uses tool? wtf

Basically he said with prep he potentially could be, but you can say that about anyone really.