Praise & Worship/Testimonies/Prayers...

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sithsaber408
I've made this thread as a place where Christians can give a testimony about something that God has done for them, a place to share worship and praise songs, for prayers and encouragement.


Non-Christians are of course welcome and encouraged to post, but please keep it positive.

This isn't the place to dispute a claim or tell a Christian that they're wrong.

Nor to debate God or Christianity as a whole, we have threads for that.



I most of all want it to be an encouragement to believers. smile





That said, let's start off with a couple of worship songs, and I have a good testimony to share after.



2eYWIDmlXLA









uAXHzmB2Sew


Amen.

That's Hillsong United, an awesome worship band from Australia.





Well, my first testimony is this:

My mother and father in-law Clay and Lori, were one of the couples who went through a presbytry at our church last Nov.

This is a specific time of prophecy and encouragement when several guest prophets are brought in from other areas to speak whatever word the Holy Spirit gives them for the person, or couple.

These pastors were from Seattle, Oakland, and San Francisco if I remember correctly.


Anyways, part of the Word that Clay and Lori recieved that night was that their family members would come to the Lord.

All of them, extended family as well. (Lori was smiling through tears, as she is one of 16 brothers and sisters, all of whom are in various stages of life, with some saved and comitted Christians, and others still lost in the world, drinking or using drugs.)


The prophets said that these would be people that they'd been praying for a long time, and that the wait was over.


Well fast forward to April and we're all praying very hard for two of her older brothers that are on disability, sitting around drinking Jack Daniels and smoking cigarettes all day, watching porn and stuff.

We're praying hard for them, I mean get on your face type prayers.

So around this time, beginning of last week Lori's dad goes into the hospital with heart trouble.

"Pop" as they all call him is a wonderfull man. Funny and kind, at 81 he's very healthy and active, bowling, golfing, going to movies and stuff.

Anyway, Pop isn't saved.

You'd almost think he was, he's such a sweet guy, works hard, very fair, you can honestly say about him: "That's a good man."

He goes to church almost every week, always has.

But, even with repeated talks and attempts from Lori and other family, he's not accepted Jesus as his savior.



So anyways, when he gets to the hospital, we all start praying for him, for healing.

Lori has her sister Annie go to the hospital to lay hands on Pop, and also to ask him if he'll pray for the Lord to come into his life.

Annie, is very nervous, as she isn't the sister who usually does those things (Lori is) but she agrees.

After laying hands on him and praying for him, she asks if he's saved.

He says he wants to be and prays with her for Jesus to be his savior! eek!


25 years now Clay and Lori have been talking to Pop and praying for his salvation.


And while they were worried for the other brothers, they never thought that it would be the father who would come to the Lord first.

How do you prove a prophecy is true?
What the prophet says comes true.



Be Blessed. cool

Shakyamunison
I think this should be moved to the Off Topic forum.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think this should be moved to the Off Topic forum.

Why?

It's not "The Christian Hang Out" with just chit-chat and random junk, it's a place for Testimonies of what God has done in a real way in people's lives.


Where better than the religion forum for such a topic.

Or are we not allowed in there now?

Bardock42
I agree with Sithy here... just saying.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Why?

It's not "The Christian Hang Out" with just chit-chat and random junk, it's a place for Testimonies of what God has done in a real way in people's lives.


Where better than the religion forum for such a topic.

Or are we not allowed in there now?

We used to have two thread: The Christian Hang Out, then came the The Non-Christian Hang Out. They where both moved to the Off Topic forum.

Don't you see how divisive a thread like this can become?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
We used to have two thread: The Christian Hang Out, then came the The Non-Christian Hang Out. They where both moved to the Off Topic forum.

Don't you see how divisive a thread like this can become?

But it has a topic....now, stop dragging it off, so I can start making fun of the testimonies.

Devil King
Originally posted by Bardock42
But it has a topic....now, stop dragging it off, so I can start making fun of the testimonies.

What this thread is designed to do is to serve as a place where christians can share their dillusions without being asked for specifics or proof, other than their word alone. Now that I've said that, I won't interfere....much.

Shakyamunison
^ I rest my case. laughing

Bardock42
Originally posted by Devil King
What this thread is designed to do is to "serve as a place where christians can share their dillusions without being asked for specifics or proof, other than their word alone". Now that I've said that, I won't interfere....much.

= A specific Religious topic

But, just because he wants it to be positive doesn't mean it has to be positive, of course you can talk about how much bullshit the stories are...

Goddess Kali
There are many wondorful and unexplainable things that do occur and exist in this world and in people's lives that does not pertain to "God" or "miracles."



I just thought you'd like to know that wink

FeceMan
I find the hypocrisy in this thread to be hilariously...irritating. I know, let's disrupt the thread! Awesome! What a great way to spend one's time.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by FeceMan
I find the hypocrisy in this thread to be hilariously...irritating. I know, let's disrupt the thread! Awesome! What a great way to spend one's time.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^ I rest my case. laughing

FeceMan
Toolishness total.

Devil King
Originally posted by FeceMan
I find the hypocrisy in this thread to be hilariously...irritating. I know, let's disrupt the thread! Awesome! What a great way to spend one's time.

You don't start threads on an internet forum not to be argued with. You just don't. That's why you guys have churches. Go there if you want to share your miracles and expect no one to say anything.

What are we going to do next, open a Buddhism thread and not expect JIA to preach in it? How about we open one for Islam and then ask that no one speak poorly of it.

It just doesn't make sense.

debbiejo
A person doesn't have to be a Christian to have miracles happen ya know. Can we just say god/spirit/universe? yes

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by debbiejo
A person doesn't have to be a Christian to have miracles happen ya know. Can we just say god/spirit/universe? yes


That's basically what I said before thumb up

lord xyz
Prayers have never worked for me.

Goddess Kali
What exactly did you pray for ?

FeceMan
Penis enlargement?

debbiejo
You're a very odd Christian........lol

I do prayers a bit differently then most. I can say I get answers to questions though, and when I do ask for things I find that if I pray as if it has already happened and I have it now, that though it may take time and if my asking is in alignment with something bigger and this something bigger thinks I deserve it for my past efforts of living in love, yeah I know it sounds corny, then it seems to materialize. But the fact is for me that my questions at least get answers. I may not like them, but they are what they are. When you ask a question then you must be prepared for the answer what ever it may be.

EPIIIBITES
Well this is cool. People crashing a "prayer" thread and shooting off even though it was kindly requested that we keep it positive.

But like Devil King said..."You don't start threads on an internet forum not to be argued with"...well no I guess you don't...you just hope people will be respectful enough not to start stuff when they've been kindly asked not to.

Anyway...love this song...


CfqK5X248Zo

EPIIIBITES
Here's a really cool 2-minute mp3 about prayer. Check it...


http://www.christianserver.com/files/256/1721611821852006121316144289.mp3

Bardock42
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Well this is cool. People crashing a "prayer" thread and shooting off even though it was kindly requested that we keep it positive.

But like Devil King said..."You don't start threads on an internet forum not to be argued with"...well no I guess you don't...you just hope people will be respectful enough not to start stuff when they've been kindly asked not to.

Anyway...love this song...


CfqK5X248Zo

Yeah, well **** that though....if you post a post I can post a post to talk about how the post you posted was idiotic....hehe, I like the word post.

Nonetheless, the thread is valid...

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I've made this thread as a place where Christians can give a testimony about something that God has done for them, a place to share worship and praise songs, for prayers and encouragement.

If this is for Christians, then take it to the "Christian Hang out" thread in the OTF where this belongs.

If not, I will begin my revelations about gods are false.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Alliance
If this is for Christians, then take it to the "Christian Hang out" thread in the OTF where this belongs.

If not, I will begin my revelations about gods are false.

I dunno man thats sound like your being an ass****. You may not agree with his views but he created the thread and made the conditions. Like he said you can discuss this in other threads.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Alfheim
I dunno man thats sound like your being an ass****. You may not agree with his views but he created the thread and made the conditions. Like he said you can discuss this in other threads.

He is not allowed to make such conditions.

Alliance
Originally posted by Alfheim
I dunno man thats sound like your being an ass****. You may not agree with his views but he created the thread and made the conditions. Like he said you can discuss this in other threads.

A condition saying that If you aren't Christian you can't post in this thread. That is inapporpriate.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Bardock42
He is not allowed to make such conditions.


Well you are allowed to make a topic for a thread right and people have to stick to that topic?

Alfheim
Originally posted by Alliance
A condition saying that If you aren't Christian you can't post in this thread. That is inapporpriate.

Thats not what he said....


Originally posted by sithsaber408


Non-Christians are of course welcome and encouraged to post, but please keep it positive.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well you are allowed to make a topic for a thread right and people have to stick to that topic?

The topic is testimonies though. He can't just tell people not to comment on the topic in the way they want,

Alfheim
Originally posted by Bardock42
The topic is testimonies though. He can't just tell people not to comment on the topic in the way they want,

Hmmm ok.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
The topic is testimonies though. He can't just tell people not to comment on the topic in the way they want,

That is one of the reasons this thread should be moved to the Off Topic Forum, IMO.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is one of the reasons this thread should be moved to the Off Topic Forum, IMO.

Fair enough.

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I've made this thread as a place where CHRISTIANS can give a testimony about something that God has done for them, a place to share worship and praise songs, for prayers and encouragement.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
This isn't the place to dispute a claim or tell a Christian that they're wrong.

Nor to debate God or Christianity as a whole, we have threads for that.
The idea that the world is Christian vs non-Christian....

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I most of all want it to be an encouragement to BELIEVERS. smile.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
it's a place for Testimonies of what God has done in a real way in people's lives.

^^^ I think that makes it pretty clear cut. This thread is for Christians, not ofr people with other gods or with no gods, despite one comment that makes it appear otherwise.

Sorry Shakya and Bardock got to this before I did embarrasment

Alfheim
Originally posted by Alliance
The idea that the world is Christian vs non-Christian....




^^^ I think that makes it pretty clear cut.

Ok. big grin

Shakyamunison
"There are two types of illness: minor and serious. Early treatment by a skilled physician can cure even serious illnesses, not to mention minor ones. Karma also may be divided into two categories: fixed and unfixed. Sincere repentance will eradicate even fixed karma, to say nothing of karma that is unfixed."

Reference:
WND Page 954
Page 954 On Prolonging One's Life Span
Written to Myojo in 1279 from Minobu

Nellinator
That isn't praise, worship, testimony or a prayer. TROLL!!

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
That isn't praise, worship, testimony or a prayer. TROLL!!

It is the daily inspiration from my religion. I will post one every day to help inspire the readers.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Well this is cool. People crashing a "prayer" thread and shooting off even though it was kindly requested that we keep it positive.

But like Devil King said..."You don't start threads on an internet forum not to be argued with"...well no I guess you don't...you just hope people will be respectful enough not to start stuff when they've been kindly asked not to.

Anyway...love this song...


CfqK5X248Zo

Yeah, I like that one too.

I remember hearing that one as a kid in church. smileOriginally posted by EPIIIBITES
Here's a really cool 2-minute mp3 about prayer. Check it...


http://www.christianserver.com/files/256/1721611821852006121316144289.mp3

That's a good word.

Prayer isn't to be a duty or ritual, but a time of connection with God.

Good stuff Bites. thumb up smile









For the topic being adressed by the many posters in this thread:


I don't intend it to be "for Christians only."

It deals with Christian faith yes, but I don't suppose for a minute that anybody here will let the testimonies or worship songs go on without a comment.


And that's fair enough. (as somebody said, I'd hardly expect JIA to let a Muslim teachings thread go on without quoting scriptures.)

I was requesting that it be kept positive, but of course you're all free to chime in with whatever you want.


That's fine, it's a public forum and a public thread. smile


But the thread is about testimony from Chirstians about things that happened in their lives, about prayers answered, or worship and praise that has inspired them, etc.....

And THAT'S what most of the discussions will focus on, as that's the topic at hand.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I don't intend it to be "for Christians only."

You cannot make a Christian only thread.

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
But the thread is about testimony from Chirstians about things that happened in their lives, about prayers answered, or worship and praise that has inspired them, etc.....

Ok, so people can only post Christian testimony and people can only make positive comments on it....

Sorry, that fails to be inclusive.

Bardock42
Originally posted by sithsaber408

But the thread is about testimony from Chirstians about things that happened in their lives, about prayers answered, or worship and praise that has inspired them, etc.....

Agreed.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Alliance
Ok, so people can only post Christian testimony and people can only make positive comments on it....

Sorry, that fails to be inclusive.

Hey if you've got a Muslim or Buddhist testimony, by all means share it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Hey if you've got a Muslim or Buddhist testimony, by all means share it.

I did and got called a troll. sad

Alliance
Don't have either, just atheism.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I did and got called a troll. sad

Not by me.

You and I have talked privately and on the boards several times Shaky.


If you've something to share, go ahead.

I won't criticize it.

You may or may not show me the same courtesy, but it won't matter.

I've tons of testimonies to share, and worship songs that have inspired me. smileOriginally posted by Alliance
Don't have either, just atheism. Well you're welcome to watch and listen and comment wherever you like.













A great song:

bP2Rr3zjEN0

ADarksideJedi
This sounds like a service.Mass or whatever it is called.My sister when she was about four took a bottle of pills and we rush to her to the hospital and the doctor said she died for a few mins.
When she came back she said she been to heaven and that God told her that it was not her time yet and that she has to take care of the two youngest.
It was just me and her at the time and my youngest brother and sister was not born yet.Pretty cool.Thought I would share that.jm

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Not by me.

You and I have talked privately and on the boards several times Shaky.


If you've something to share, go ahead.

I won't criticize it.

You may or may not show me the same courtesy, but it won't matter.
...

That was a low blow. sad I only protest when I believe that things are not fair, or to prove a point.

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by Alliance
Ok, so people can only post Christian testimony and people can only make positive comments on it....
No.

As I alluded to earlier, all of you CAN do what you want...the above is just what was hoped for. So from there on in, it's your choice to either quash that hope or not.

Bardock42
Originally posted by sithsaber408
A great song:

bP2Rr3zjEN0

Did you like the South Park Episode on Christian Rock?

EPIIIBITES
Most Christian rock seems pretty forced. You don't have to say the words "God I praise, worship, love you" to ACTUALLY praise, worship, and love God through music....but a good chunk of the songs do.

Cookie cutter

The only Christian band I've ever liked is Switchfoot (and U2 I guess who are %75 Christian), and it's becasue their songs worship God without being overtly "YOU ARE THE ALMIGHTY GOD!!!" in every second song. People who do that, you gotta kinda ask..."are they overcompensating for something?" Just a thought.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That was a low blow. sad I only protest when I believe that things are not fair, or to prove a point.

Well then that sounds great. And I didn't mean it to be insulting, just to say that your voice (or any other) is welcome even if mine isn't.(to some posters) smile


Originally posted by Bardock42
Did you like the South Park Episode on Christian Rock? Where Cartman becomes a Christian rock singer? Yeah, that was funny. stick out tongue


What I'm posting isn't quite the same though, if you were trying to make a comparison.

Hill Song United is part of the worship team for Hillsong church in Australia, which has like 10,000 members.

They play all over the world and have albums, but that's just part of how they can reach people now. They've been blessed.... they're not some music industry fad, they actually grew out of one local church.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Well then that sounds great. And I didn't mean it to be insulting, just to say that your voice (or any other) is welcome even if mine isn't.(to some posters) smile


As far as I'm concerned, you are always welcome. I'm just a little bruised because of some "Christians" who could do nothing but Troll my Buddhist thread. So, I do understand how you feel, I just want to make a point about it. wink

Bardock42
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Well then that sounds great. And I didn't mean it to be insulting, just to say that your voice (or any other) is welcome even if mine isn't.(to some posters) smile


Where Cartman becomes a Christian rock singer? Yeah, that was funny. stick out tongue


What I'm posting isn't quite the same though, if you were trying to make a comparison.

Hill Song United is part of the worship team for Hillsong church in Australia, which has like 10,000 members.

They play all over the world and have albums, but that's just part of how they can reach people now. They've been blessed.... they're not some music industry fad, they actually grew out of one local church.

Well, it seems similar....but anyways, they sure seem to take the audience in..

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I'm just a little bruised because of some "Christians" who could do nothing but Troll my Buddhist thread.
That pisses me off...gotta wonder how "Christian" they really were.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I did and got called a troll. sad Quiet, troll. Go back to your bridge.

Anyways, on Christian rock, Stryper is probably one of the most talented and definitely the best Christian heavy metal band ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwRgspRKxFQ&mode=related&search=
They are kinda preachy, but Michael Sweet is a great guitarist.

Bardock42
Like, we shouldn't argue about this...me being an actual, true Christian (Catholic) of course have the last word in the matter you heretics (protestants of any sort)...but the best Christian Artist...without a doubt...is Sufjan Stevens.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Bardock42
Like, we shouldn't argue about this...me being an actual, true Christian (Catholic) of course have the last word in the matter you heretics (protestants of any sort)...but the best Christian Artist...without a doubt...is Sufjan Stevens. Sufjan Stevens is good and apparently Christian, that kinda slipped my mind. He's pretty sweet.

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by Nellinator
Quiet, troll. Go back to your bridge. Nel....really.


Anyone heard the O' Brother Where Art Thou Soundtrack?...amazing Christian bluegrass and Gospel on that.

Nellinator
I'm kidding and Shaky knows it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
I'm kidding and Shaky knows it.

crybaby
































stick out tongue

Devil King
Originally posted by sithsaber408
But the thread is about testimony from Chirstians about things that happened in their lives, about prayers answered, or worship and praise that has inspired them, etc.....

And THAT'S what most of the discussions will focus on, as that's the topic at hand.

Okay, but why aren't they talking about all the prayers that have not been answered? Because you'll say it's god's will that the prayer not be answered?

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Devil King
Okay, but why aren't they talking about all the prayers that have not been answered? Because you'll say it's god's will that the prayer not be answered?

They can talk about prayer in whatever way they wish to.


Just as I can.

Devil King
Originally posted by sithsaber408
They can talk about prayer in whatever way they wish to.


Just as I can.

So tell us about some prayers that have not been answered.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Devil King
So tell us about some prayers that have not been answered.

I know what the standard answer is: all prayers are answered, it's just that some are answered NO. wink

Devil King
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know what the standard answer is: all prayers are answered, it's just that some are answered NO. wink

Well, the reasoning behind dismissing or ignoring the ones that have not been answered is an inability to figure out why god said no. If he answers the prayer, then you can say it's because you asked for it and he gave it to you. If he says no, he offeres no explaination, the person asking for the prayer is just left to say "Well, god works in mysterious ways...who can say why he said no?" Well, he could. But, then again, he doesn't tell you why he says yes either. You just assume it's because you asked for it and he thinks it's what's best for you. So the rational thought behind it would be to say he has nothing to do with either of them. God gets a bad rap from most christians.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Devil King
Well, the reasoning behind dismissing or ignoring the ones that have not been answered is an inability to figure out why god said no. If he answers the prayer, then you can say it's because you asked for it and he gave it to you. If he says no, he offeres no explaination, the person asking for the prayer is just left to say "Well, god works in mysterious ways...who can say why he said no?" Well, he could. But, then again, he doesn't tell you why he says yes either. You just assume it's because you asked for it and he thinks it's what's best for you. So the rational thought behind it would be to say he has nothing to do with either of them. God gets a bad rap from most christians.

That is the problem with looking outside of yourself for answers to what is inside of your life. It leads to superstition and erroneous conclusions like, Hurricane Katrina being sent by god to punish the wicked.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is the problem with looking outside of yourself for answers to what is inside of your life. It leads to superstition and erroneous conclusions like, Hurricane Katrina being sent by god to punish the wicked.



Hurricane Katrina is a natural result of the changing of our climate, which we as a human race have contributed to, but are not at complete fault for.


God has nothing to do with it. I do not beleive there is any sentient force that creates these natural disasters.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Hurricane Katrina is a natural result of the changing of our climate, which we as a human race have contributed to, but are not at complete fault for.


God has nothing to do with it. I do not beleive there is any sentient force that creates these natural disasters.

Did I lead you to think that I believed that Hurricane Katrina was sent by god? confused

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Did I lead you to think that I believed that Hurricane Katrina was sent by god? confused


No, I was agreeing with you roll eyes (sarcastic)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
No, I was agreeing with you roll eyes (sarcastic)

I"m not used to that. laughing

JesusIsAlive

Goddess Kali
yawn

Burnt Pancakes
Alliance wouldn't you have a better time elsewhere? Like praying to Evolution?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
Alliance wouldn't you have a better time elsewhere? Like praying to Evolution?

No one prays to evolution. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Burnt Pancakes
It was a joke roll eyes (sarcastic)

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No one prays to evolution. roll eyes (sarcastic) I do.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
It was a joke roll eyes (sarcastic)

With people like JIA here on the forum, it's hard to tell. wink

Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
With people like JIA here on the forum, it's hard to tell. wink

Indeed. And since we all know that I'm a flagellated slug, I don't know how to pray.

Here is one of the great Revelations, which I could not possible express so eloquently.


Originally posted by TJ
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Devil King
Originally posted by Alliance
TJ

LOL. You're calling him TJ? That reminds me of a friend of mine that calls Robert DeNiro "bobby deniro" Like he had drinks with him at his home just last week and he exchanges cheerful e-mails with him on myspace.

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
With people like JIA here on the forum, it's hard to tell. wink

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator....?

roll eyes (sarcastic)

wink

smile

Alliance
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator....?

roll eyes (sarcastic)

wink

smile

NATURE's GOD

NATURE

NATURE

NATURE

NATURE

YOU FAIL.

Besides, all the stuff TJ thought of was NOT in the Bible. It was free independant thought. Run away now.

And do you undesrtand historical context? NO. DO you undesrtand symantics? NO. Do you understand Jefferson? NO.

You plug your ears and scream "JESUS JESUS JESUS" as loud as you can. However, you're wrong and you have no credibility whatsoever. Jesus does not contradict fact.

AngryManatee
Originally posted by Alliance
NATURE's GOD

NATURE

NATURE

NATURE

NATURE

YOU FAIL.

Dammit you beat me to it rolling on floor laughing

AngryManatee
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator....?

roll eyes (sarcastic)

wink

smile

Originally posted by AngryManatee
A Letter from Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of, and rightful interpreters of, The US Constitution:

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of SEPERATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

roll eyes (sarcastic)

wink

smile

JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by AngryManatee
Dammit you beat me to it rolling on floor laughing

The word Creator and nature are two different things.

Thomas Jefferson skillfully used the word "Creator" in the body of the Declaration of Independence to refer to God Almighty. Nature's God refers to the laws of of God (i.e. divine law, revealed law)

Alliance
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The word Creator and nature are two different things.

Thomas Jefferson skillfully used the word "Creator" in the body of the Declaration of Independence to refer to God Almighty. Nature's God refers to the laws of of God (i.e. divine law, revealed law)

No, he did not. He himself said so. You Lose.

When Jefferson siad "nature" he meant "nature." The laws of Nature dictate that man is equal, not the slavery infested Church. Man is NATURALLY equal to his brother (as long as he was a white aristocrat).

What you present is merely a corruption. You never respond to me. Why? Because you can't argue with me. You have no points. YOu have no credibility.

AngryManatee
It's funny when JIA tries to support his statements by quoting a deist.

Alliance
Actually, its simply insanely aggravating.

FeceMan
You know, I think we've been over these church and state arguments before, and, as I recall, I put Strangelove in his place. So stop quoting that damn letter because it fails to support your views.

Alliance
what was your arguement?

sithsaber408
I'm gonna jump back on the topic here:


In Jan. I went to help chaperone a youth event called Encounter at The Fathers House, a church in Vacaville. (northern California)


I had a great time, my wife and I went, along with her parents, the youth pastors, and some other adults from our church.

We took close to 20 or 30 of our teens with us.

It was definately a worth-wile experience, we learned alot, and my wife saw a vision of us as youth pastors some day.

This was something that I'd felt for a while, but she had been hesitant, liking to sing worhsip instead and not really feeling like dealing with kids.

Needless to say, her change in heart came from God, and nothing I could do. stick out tongue

Now we host a small group from our home for teenage guys ages 13-19 called.... The Male Room. (I came up with that.) stick out tongue

We've gone from 8 to 18 kids in that home group in just three sessions.

A small testimony in and of itself.




But back to the Encounter.

There was alot of serious stuff there, and the preacher Pastor Jude Fuquoa from Oregon wasn't kidding them. He spoke real truth about life, what the world tells them matters (image, clothes, sex, MTV crap, etc...) and what they really need to fill that hole inside of them: Jesus.

Many kids were unsaved in our audience of 1,200 and they came up to the altar to recieve the Lord.


Most were already churched, but weren't seriously living on fire for Christ.


As he finished his call for new kids for Christ, he turned to those that knew Him.

We sang this song:


9be2sKHDZjo



And man, let me tell you... the Fire Fell!!!

100 kids in front of me who had run up to the stage were IMMEDIATELY baptized in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tougnes that they'd never known before, the heavenly language.

We had a kid healed of asthma... on the spot!
We had a kid healed of diabetes... on the spot!

Growing up in an old stuffy baptist church, I'd never seen this before.


It was a great night.

Kids were saved.

Kids were on fire.

And my wife and I found out what we were gonna do for a large part of our lives.


Be Blessed. cool

FeceMan
Originally posted by Alliance
what was your arguement?
The intent of "separation of church and state" versus the "letter of the law" given to it. It's like in D&D: the rules-as-written (RAW) versus the rules-as-intended (RAI).
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Snip.
I'm meh. I don't really buy those miracle healing things; then again, I've never attended one for that reason. What I've read from others is that they are often fraudulent and that those who aren't miraculously healed are told they are "lacking in faith," despite their earnest belief that they will be healed. It seems that they can be quite damaging.

Devil King
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm gonna jump back on the topic here:


In Jan. I went to help chaperone a youth event called Encounter at The Fathers House, a church in Vacaville. (northern California)


I had a great time, my wife and I went, along with her parents, the youth pastors, and some other adults from our church.

We took close to 20 or 30 of our teens with us.

It was definately a worth-wile experience, we learned alot, and my wife saw a vision of us as youth pastors some day.

This was something that I'd felt for a while, but she had been hesitant, liking to sing worhsip instead and not really feeling like dealing with kids.

Needless to say, her change in heart came from God, and nothing I could do. stick out tongue

Now we host a small group from our home for teenage guys ages 13-19 called.... The Male Room. (I came up with that.) stick out tongue

We've gone from 8 to 18 kids in that home group in just three sessions.

A small testimony in and of itself.




But back to the Encounter.

There was alot of serious stuff there, and the preacher Pastor Jude Fuquoa from Oregon wasn't kidding them. He spoke real truth about life, what the world tells them matters (image, clothes, sex, MTV crap, etc...) and what they really need to fill that hole inside of them: Jesus.

Many kids were unsaved in our audience of 1,200 and they came up to the altar to recieve the Lord.


Most were already churched, but weren't seriously living on fire for Christ.


As he finished his call for new kids for Christ, he turned to those that knew Him.

We sang this song:


9be2sKHDZjo



And man, let me tell you... the Fire Fell!!!

100 kids in front of me who had run up to the stage were IMMEDIATELY baptized in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tougnes that they'd never known before, the heavenly language.

We had a kid healed of asthma... on the spot!
We had a kid healed of diabetes... on the spot!

Growing up in an old stuffy baptist church, I'd never seen this before.


It was a great night.

Kids were saved.

Kids were on fire.

And my wife and I found out what we were gonna do for a large part of our lives.


Be Blessed. cool

I'm honestly at a loss for words. And I might ad it has nothing to do with Jesus the Christ. I'm at a loss for words because you are so far gone, I can't talk sense into you. At least not objective "sense".

Originally posted by FeceMan
The intent of "separation of church and state" versus the "letter of the law" given to it. It's like in D&D: the rules-as-written (RAW) versus the rules-as-intended (RAI).

That's asuming there's a seperation of the laws in something like D&D.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by FeceMan
The intent of "separation of church and state" versus the "letter of the law" given to it. It's like in D&D: the rules-as-written (RAW) versus the rules-as-intended (RAI).

I'm meh. I don't really buy those miracle healing things; then again, I've never attended one for that reason. What I've read from others is that they are often fraudulent and that those who aren't miraculously healed are told they are "lacking in faith," despite their earnest belief that they will be healed. It seems that they can be quite damaging.

Well it wasn't a "healing" that was being attended.. it was a youth conference.

Some healings just happened there. smile


Nobody was told anything negative or that they "lacked faith", in fact they were all speaking in tounges and praising Jesus.

They all recieved a type of miracle, just some different than others.


I don't doubt you Fece, I'm sure that there are places where it gets faked, or people are told things that aren't helpful....


but I'm glad to say that this wasn't the case at The Fathers House.

What'd you think of that song?

FeceMan
Missing the point.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Devil King
I'm honestly at a loss for words. And I might ad it has nothing to do with Jesus the Christ. I'm at a loss for words because you are so far gone, I can't talk sense into you. At least not objective "sense".





And that's the damnable misery of it all.

Because that right there, is me at my most honest, my most raw, my most real.

Some things I argue, some I debate.

Then there are the others that I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT in my mind, my heart, and my spirit are true.


I can see why you'd think that Cap, and much of the world feels the same.

It's very logical to assume that I (like plenty of chiropracters, police officers, engineers, and nurses in my church who speak in tounges, get prophecy and healing) am flat-out crazy.


But God goes beyond logic.

Sorry my friend (and I TRULY mean friend) but I cannot make a liar of myself.

Christ came to fix my broken life
and now I'll live to testify.

That's what this thread is all about.

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
It's very logical to assume that I (like plenty of chiropracters, police officers, engineers, and nurses in my church who speak in tounges, get prophecy and healing) am flat-out crazy.

Of course when plenty actually means extreme minority...yes, you are flat out crazy.

Devil King
Originally posted by sithsaber408
And that's the damnable misery of it all.

Because that right there, is me at my most honest, my most raw, my most real.

Some things I argue, some I debate.

Then there are the others that I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT in my mind, my heart, and my spirit are true.


I can see why you'd think that Cap, and much of the world feels the same.

It's very logical to assume that I (like plenty of chiropracters, police officers, engineers, and nurses in my church who speak in tounges, get prophecy and healing) am flat-out crazy.


But God goes beyond logic.

Sorry my friend (and I TRULY mean friend) but I cannot make a liar of myself.

Christ came to fix my broken life
and now I'll live to testify.

That's what this thread is all about.

I honestly had that conversation. "Am I so inconsiderate of another's perspective" as in "can I honestly believe that there are other people out in the world that are that fu*king stupid"? But I guess there are. And, while I have a hard time dismissing the difference, I am left thinking that most of your perspective is just that fu*king stupid. That won't change based on your posts, but because of posts and comments made by, people like you. You personally, can redeem yourselves. But you don't want to. Because the opinion of an internet forum member is insignifigant compared to the love of god himself.

Devil King
Originally posted by Alliance
Of course when plenty actually means extreme minority...yes, you are flat out crazy.


Profession has no effect on instability.

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by sithsaber408
That's what this thread is all about. You rule.


There is no real point in explaining the unexplainable. The Holy Spirit has to be experenced to be believed. And honestly, your post trancended the event itslef, as I felt the Spirit bubbling up in me as I was reading it.


And with Devil King...if he did believe you, I'd think there'd be something pretty strange about that. I was the biggest Christian basher until God's reality hit me like a ton of bricks...and I don't regret anything I said regarding Christians before that, becasue why would I believe in something that for all intents and purposes was completely illogical?


But that's exactly what God is...


Great testimony

Alliance
Clearly...but I'd imagine that professions that actually increase your contact with the outside world and force you to realize your place in society (through education and contact) might do at least SOMETHING to aid the situation.

FeceMan
Now, one must wonder--would this be how those proclaiming the miracles of Christ would be received? They were insane? Removed from reality? What about the shepherds to whom angels appeared?

Of course, the main reason that such things are discredited is because they are often used in conjunction with money-grubbing pastors who want little more than to line their pocketbooks.

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Alliance
Of course when plenty actually means extreme minority...yes, you are flat out crazy. Originally posted by Devil King
I honestly had that conversation. "Am I so inconsiderate of another's perspective" as in "can I honestly believe that there are other people out in the world that are that fu*king stupid"? But I guess there are. And, while I have a hard time dismissing the difference, I am left thinking that most of your perspective is just that fu*king stupid. That won't change based on your posts, but because of posts and comments made by, people like you. You personally, can redeem yourselves. But you don't want to. Because the opinion of an internet forum member is insignifigant compared to the love of god himself.

So we have crazy, and we have stupid.

Dismissive adjectives that in no way bring you true peace or an answer as to what people like me see and experience.

Take the Encounter retreat.

You can't honestly believe that 100 kids AT ONCE went "f*cking stupid" or "flat-out crazy".


You'll say so, in order to dismiss God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/supernatural part of life and make yourself feel better and sleep better.... "sure, that's it..he's just one of those wackos." but we know that's not the case.


I invite you to educate my insane/stupid arse as to exactly WHAT happened this Feb. in that church in Northern California.

Remember also, that I saw it with my own eyes. Explain to me what I saw.

Alliance
Well, Christans can always resort the the fact that this life doesn't matter...they can look forward to eternal glory when they kick the bucket (comes in great handy when youre whipping your slaves in the fields).

sithsaber408
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You rule.


There is no real point in explaining the unexplainable. The Holy Spirit has to be experenced to be believed. And honestly, your post trancended the event itslef, as I felt the Spirit bubbling up in me as I was reading it.


And with Devil King...if he did believe you, I'd think there'd be something pretty strange about that. I was the biggest Christian basher until God's reality hit me like a ton of bricks...and I don't regret anything I said regarding Christians before that, becasue why would I believe in something that for all intents and purposes was completely illogical?


But that's exactly what God is...


Great testimony

Thanks Bites.

If I'm helping one person, than this thread is accomplishing something.

Glad that it was uplifting you and edifying you spiritually at the same time.


That's two of about 20 personal testimonies that I have posted now, and believe me your word of encouragement will help in bringing out the rest.

Peace bro. cool

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
So we have crazy, and we have stupid.

Dismissive adjectives that in no way bring you true peace or an answer as to what people like me see and experience.

Take the Encounter retreat.

You can't honestly believe that 100 kids AT ONCE went "f*cking stupid" or "flat-out crazy".

Child psychology...children never imitate those around them.


Originally posted by sithsaber408
You'll say so, in order to dismiss God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/supernatural part of life and make yourself feel better and sleep better.... "sure, that's it..he's just one of those wackos." but we know that's not the case.


I invite you to educate my insane/stupid arse as to exactly WHAT happened this Feb. in that church in Northern California.

Remember also, that I saw it with my own eyes. Explain to me what I saw.

"oh but we know we're right...." If every religious group in the world didn't say that, maybe I'd be more apt to believe you.

I don't knwo everyhting about the situation you saw, nor to I have the necessary skills to analyze it. THATS the difference between people like me and people like you. If I CAN'T judge a situation, I wont. I'll let people who are qualified to do so examine the situation.

You see something and you go "God did it" (which is ironic seeing as there are 1000s of other possibilities, your just interested in reinforcing your own world view)

This is further ironic because thats likely how all this religous crap got started in the first place: idiots in the desert running around trying to explain death, rain, and lightning strikes. Too bad the Christian church had to take over and destroy all the Greek Philosophy that would have saved us from this mess.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Thanks Bites.

If I'm helping one person, than this thread is accomplishing something.

Glad that it was uplifting you and edifying you spiritually at the same time.


That's two of about 20 personal testimonies that I have posted now, and believe me your word of encouragement will help in bringing out the rest.

Peace bro. cool

Yeah, because you two were never similar at all before...roll eyes (sarcastic)

FeceMan
Originally posted by Alliance
Well, Christans can always resort the the fact that this life doesn't matter...they can look forward to eternal glory when they kick the bucket (comes in great handy when youre whipping your slaves in the fields).
Darn tootin'.

I don't think that a hundred kids at once went "crazy" or "stupid"; I think they were performing how they were supposed to. Get one going with tongues and the rest will follow.

*Shrugs.* I don't like being cynical, but that's what I've seen of these events.

Alliance
Originally posted by FeceMan
Darn tootin'.

I don't think that a hundred kids at once went "crazy" or "stupid"; I think they were performing how they were supposed to. Get one going with tongues and the rest will follow.

*Shrugs.* I don't like being cynical, but that's what I've seen of these events.

Its a sad day when being objective is considered cynical. Not a single one of these cases that I've seen examined beyond hersey had supernatural rationales or logcial ones that didn't suffice to explain the story.

FeceMan
To be cynical is to be "bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic."

I don't see any reason why sith would lie to us, and I'd certainly like to believe that the Holy Spirit worked in those kids...I just don't. And the Captain's a little more than a little contemptuous, sneering, and bitter.

Devil King
Originally posted by sithsaber408
So we have crazy, and we have stupid.

Dismissive adjectives that in no way bring you true peace or an answer as to what people like me see and experience.

Take the Encounter retreat.

You can't honestly believe that 100 kids AT ONCE went "f*cking stupid" or "flat-out crazy".


You'll say so, in order to dismiss God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/supernatural part of life and make yourself feel better and sleep better.... "sure, that's it..he's just one of those wackos." but we know that's not the case.


I invite you to educate my insane/stupid arse as to exactly WHAT happened this Feb. in that church in Northern California.

Remember also, that I saw it with my own eyes. Explain to me what I saw.


No, I have no question that 100 kids were stupid. I take exception to the fact that they all tell the same story. That comes from your brand of misleading and fear mongering. I'm not interested in them all experiencing the same thing, but that they all have the same story to tell. On top of that, if you tell them they're experiencing a cookie cutter version of faith, then you have failed.

I appreciate the fact that you present yourself for re-education. But you have denied it up to this point. Why should you not do as much from this point on?

Alliance
Originally posted by FeceMan
To be cynical is to be "bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic."

I don't see any reason why sith would lie to us, and I'd certainly like to believe that the Holy Spirit worked in those kids...I just don't. And the Captain's a little more than a little contemptuous, sneering, and bitter.

I don't think hes lying...and I dont think he thinks hes lying. Thats the problem with brainwashing...

FeceMan
I don't think he's brainwashed.

Alliance
Then why do you disagree with his interpretation?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Alliance
Child psychology...children never imitate those around them. Bad Alliance. No psychology for you.

Alliance
Trust me...I don't want any 13

Nellinator
Oh, I know, I'm just keeping you honest.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Alliance
Then why do you disagree with his interpretation?
Because I'm cynical.

EPIIIBITES
There's a lot of hokey stuff that goes on...especially on TV where things can be more easily staged. It's quite natural to have an air of suspicion with this stuff.

I used to not believe in this stuff at all until I was in a room that got absoluetly filled with the Holy Spirit and people all around were going ape s#*@.

It's one of the tripiest things you can ever experience, and some people have been blessed with the talent to be able to initiate this kind of stuff.

Unexplainable.


EDIT: Apart from stuff being staged, someone might say they've seen or experienced such a thing because they simply have a weak personality and can easily lie to themselves just 'cause they wanna believe something SOOOO bad...a lot of Christians get on my nerves for that.

However, knowing Sith, he's not that kind of fluff...and when it's not just one or two people, but about a hundred, you can't think they're all just fooling themselves. Plus, this stuff happens in big groups everyday, all the time, all around the world in a number of Chistian settings...people going ape s#*@ from this stuff. It's all in a days work for the Spirit...

FeceMan
Having a silver tongue and a high Charisma score help.

Alliance
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
There's a lot of hokey stuff that goes on...especially on TV where things can be more easily staged. It's quite natural to have an air of suspicion with this stuff.
Yet, this suspicion seems to have completely vanished from this personal personal experience.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I used to not believe in this stuff at all until I was in a room that got absoluetly filled with the Holy Spirit and people all around were going ape s#*@. I find it amusing that you use that term to describe the situation.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It's one of the tripiest things you can ever experience, and some people have been blessed with the talent to be able to initiate this kind of stuff.
I guessed some are bleessed with amazing musical talent and other are just blessed to go ape sh*t.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Unexplainable.
I'd be out of a carrer if things were unexplainable. Did you go looking (this would imply effort) for explinations, or jsut assume?


Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
EDIT: Apart from stuff being staged, someone might say they've seen or experienced such a thing because they simply have a weak personality and can easily lie to themselves just 'cause they wanna believe something SOOOO bad...a lot of Christians get on my nerves for that. Couldn't you be doing the same thing?

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
However, knowing Sith, he's not that kind of fluff...and when it's not just one or two people, but about a hundred, you can't think they're all just fooling themselves. Plus, this stuff happens in big groups everyday, all the time, all around the world in a number of Chistian settings...people going ape s#*@ from this stuff. It's all in a days work for the Spirit...

What the f**k?

"That is of course rather painful for those involved. One should not as a rule reveal one's secrets, since one does not know if and when one may need them again. The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous." - Joseph Goebbels (Nazi Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, adapted from Hitler)

Yes...you CAN think they are all just fooling themselves. Numbers don't give anyone anything more than a superficial sense of credibility...which, unfortunately, is all that Christian mythology has.

Just remember, the Titanic is unsinkable.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Having a silver tongue and a high Charisma score help.

$100%

FeceMan
"Apeshit" = win.

Personally, I see it like so:

The kids have all been taught about speaking in tongues and the power of the Holy Spirit. The kids have also been taught that good Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit. Thus, one kid believes that he ought to speak in tongues--a conscious desire or not--to demonstrate that he is filled with the Spirit, and the other kids--again, consciously or unconsciously--also want to be seen as good Christians, so they follow the first kid's lead so they aren't "left out."

sithsaber408
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
There's a lot of hokey stuff that goes on...especially on TV where things can be more easily staged. It's quite natural to have an air of suspicion with this stuff.

I used to not believe in this stuff at all until I was in a room that got absoluetly filled with the Holy Spirit and people all around were going ape s#*@.

It's one of the tripiest things you can ever experience, and some people have been blessed with the talent to be able to initiate this kind of stuff.

Unexplainable.


EDIT: Apart from stuff being staged, someone might say they've seen or experienced such a thing because they simply have a weak personality and can easily lie to themselves just 'cause they wanna believe something SOOOO bad...a lot of Christians get on my nerves for that.

However, knowing Sith, he's not that kind of fluff...and when it's not just one or two people, but about a hundred, you can't think they're all just fooling themselves. Plus, this stuff happens in big groups everyday, all the time, all around the world in a number of Chistian settings...people going ape s#*@ from this stuff. It's all in a days work for the Spirit...

thumb up


Somebody's on the right page.



I'll say one word here for the others in the thread: Stop.


You aren't really serious that this is all some grand lie, some charade based on a Nazi control technique, are you Alliance? (what was the point of that, really?)



I suppose you'll have some devious trick for the demons that were cast from my wife's aunt with all of her sisters around, hmm?

Or some way that my father in law was healed of Hepatitus, while crapping white and blood just a day before?

Or some reason for the 1 year old baby from our church to fall from the second story building, rupture his spleen, but have it be a "false diagnosis" when he was healed on the way to UC Davis medical center?

Or the prophecy that I received from a pastor from SEATTLE who'd never met me before in my life that knew of my family's history of addiction and mental illness, who told me that it wouldn't pass into me (it hasn't stick out tongue ) or into my kids, when me and my wife had been talking about our concerns for our kids maybe inheriting traits from my family line THE SAME MORNING before he gave me that word?

Oh, that was him "cold reading" me... that's right. big grin



C'mon.


Really, it's ridiculous for you to actually try to explain each and every occurence away as something that "just got lucky" or "you're crazy" or "you're lying".


Those are only a few of the many testimonies that I have, and I'm just one man.

The power of Jesus Christ is real, the Holy Spirit is real, and so is everything that I've seen and am testifying before you now.


Be Blessed. cool

FeceMan
I'm pretty leery of "prophets."

www.peterpopoff.org

He sent us miracle water and Dead Sea salt with which we were supposed to "anoint our tongues." We threw it out 'cause he's dumb.

Nellinator
Peter Popoff does bother me. His "miracle water" is so blatantly ridiculous it hurts.

One thing, why are all those kids speaking in tongues without an interpreter? That is not how it is supposed to be. Speaking in tongues is only supposed to be done so that everyone can understand and be edified.

Besides, tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not believers (1 Corinthians 14:22).

Bardock42
Originally posted by sithsaber408

You can't honestly believe that 100 kids AT ONCE went "f*cking stupid" or "flat-out crazy".


Oh, I can believe a lot of really ****ing weird shit....just not that Jesus was the son of God.

I am cursed....or blessed...depends on perspective.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Bardock42
just not that Jesus was the son of Christ. I don't believe that either.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't believe that either.

Ha, yeah, I meant God, I'm sorry, I am not that well versed in Christian Mythology.

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by sithsaber408
thumb up


Somebody's on the right page.



I'll say one word here for the others in the thread: Stop.


You aren't really serious that this is all some grand lie, some charade based on a Nazi control technique, are you Alliance? (what was the point of that, really?)



I suppose you'll have some devious trick for the demons that were cast from my wife's aunt with all of her sisters around, hmm?

Or some way that my father in law was healed of Hepatitus, while crapping white and blood just a day before?

Or some reason for the 1 year old baby from our church to fall from the second story building, rupture his spleen, but have it be a "false diagnosis" when he was healed on the way to UC Davis medical center?

Or the prophecy that I received from a pastor from SEATTLE who'd never met me before in my life that knew of my family's history of addiction and mental illness, who told me that it wouldn't pass into me (it hasn't stick out tongue ) or into my kids, when me and my wife had been talking about our concerns for our kids maybe inheriting traits from my family line THE SAME MORNING before he gave me that word?

Oh, that was him "cold reading" me... that's right. big grin



C'mon.


Really, it's ridiculous for you to actually try to explain each and every occurence away as something that "just got lucky" or "you're crazy" or "you're lying".


Those are only a few of the many testimonies that I have, and I'm just one man.

The power of Jesus Christ is real, the Holy Spirit is real, and so is everything that I've seen and am testifying before you now.


Be Blessed. cool




I am happy for you Sithsaber. If those things truly did occur, then I encourage you to beleive, and live your life how you choose.


Christianity, however, has not worked for me. No such "miracles" occured this way from prayer in God. Yes, wondorful, wierd, and unexplainable things have happened to me in my life, but nothing I can directly attribute to God...since I never prayed for some of these weird occurances.



Buddhism has helped me calm down, and train my mind to see and thinkg clearly...it has helped me recognize my passions as feelings and nothing more, nothing that should run my life.



Point being...what works for me works for me, what works for you works for you.



How about we just stick to what has worked for ourselves, instead of telling each other how to live each other's lives, eh ?

Bardock42
With precision you feed me
My witness I'm hungry
Your temple it calms me
So I can carry on
My slaving sweating the skin right off my bones
On a bed of fire I'm choking on the smoke that fills my home
The wrecking ball is rushing
Witness your blushing
The pipeline is gushing
While here we lie in tombs
While on the corner
The jury's sleepless
We found your weakness
And it's right outside your door

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
thumb up


Somebody's on the right page.



I'll say one word here for the others in the thread: Stop.


You aren't really serious that this is all some grand lie, some charade based on a Nazi control technique, are you Alliance? (what was the point of that, really?)



I suppose you'll have some devious trick for the demons that were cast from my wife's aunt with all of her sisters around, hmm?

Or some way that my father in law was healed of Hepatitus, while crapping white and blood just a day before?

Or some reason for the 1 year old baby from our church to fall from the second story building, rupture his spleen, but have it be a "false diagnosis" when he was healed on the way to UC Davis medical center?

Or the prophecy that I received from a pastor from SEATTLE who'd never met me before in my life that knew of my family's history of addiction and mental illness, who told me that it wouldn't pass into me (it hasn't stick out tongue ) or into my kids, when me and my wife had been talking about our concerns for our kids maybe inheriting traits from my family line THE SAME MORNING before he gave me that word?

Oh, that was him "cold reading" me... that's right. big grin



C'mon.


Really, it's ridiculous for you to actually try to explain each and every occurence away as something that "just got lucky" or "you're crazy" or "you're lying".


Those are only a few of the many testimonies that I have, and I'm just one man.

The power of Jesus Christ is real, the Holy Spirit is real, and so is everything that I've seen and am testifying before you now.


Be Blessed. cool

The mind is a powerful thing. We can cure ourselves of almost anything, if we just believe we can. However, this is difficult for people to do. It is easier for people to believe in something outside of their selves. Faith healing is just that, faith healing.

Demons and spirits do not exist, and the power of healing is not magic. We have control over our bodies, we just don't realize that.

mr.smiley
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The mind is a powerful thing. We can cure ourselves of almost anything, if we just believe we can. However, this is difficult for people to do. It is easier for people to believe in something outside of their selves. Faith healing is just that, faith healing.

Demons and spirits do not exist, and the power of healing is not magic. We have control over our bodies, we just don't realize that.

I agree.

EPIIIBITES
What you guys are talking about implies some kind of effort on our part.

I don't think that 1 year-old baby put any effort or faith into anything...nor do any other babies who are miraculously healed in the name of God.

And tons of Christians even tend to lose faith at times when they're desperate for a miracle...yet they still get them.

God decides what miracles will happen, regardless of how much our faith is or what our tiny wills might want or believe.


...and besides, this is just focusing on miracles relating to the body...there's a million other miracles God does in all aspects of our lives that have nothing to do with healing.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
What you guys are talking about implies some kind of effort on our part.

I don't think that 1 year-old baby put any effort or faith into anything...nor do any other babies who are miraculously healed in the name of God.

And tons of Christians even tend to lose faith at times when they're desperate for a miracle...yet they still get them.

God decides what miracles will happen, regardless of how much our faith is or what our tiny wills might want or believe.


...and besides, this is just focusing on miracles relating to the body...there's a million other miracles God does in all aspects of our lives that have nothing to do with healing.

90% of what you hear about miracles are urban legends and are untrue.

EPIIIBITES
Here's a testimony:

This one morning I was on the bus on my way to work...and it was my first payday from this job on that day. On the way there I was thinking "hey, why don't I buy a homeless person some lunch today? I'm getting a nice, brand-new pay-cheque...there's lots of people about that have nothing to eat...why don't I share I tiny fraction of all this money I'm geting and help a brother out?"

It was weird...I've always volunteered at soup-kitchens and given to charity and stuff, but it's only 'cause I thought it'd be a nice thing to do...but this time, I actually felt something inside of me really WANT to help a homeless peron out...the desire was huge.

So after work, I said to myself "I'm going to by a lunch for the first homeless person I see." I came up to a homeless guy at exactly the same time some other dude did. The homelss guy knew this other person and was showing him this infection he had on his hand...the hand was like a balloon! I asked the homeless guy if I could buy him some lunch, but just then the other dude handed over his lunch to the homeless guy and bid us farewell.

The homeless dude was like "well, I don't need a lunch, but if you could help me out with some medicine for my hand that'd be great." I knew this might cost me, but this guy's hand looked in bad shape.

So we went to a nearby pharmacy to find out about a prescription he had gotten a while back but had no money to pay for. The pharmacy said it wasn't on their records and that we'd have to go to a clinic to get another prescrption. So we did...and after examining the homeless person's hand for about 5 minutes, a nurse came out and approached me in the waiting room and said..."this guy has to go to the hospital right away. The infection has spread to the bone, and he needs to get help immediately."

The dude thanked me for the care I showed him, and said that he always prays for angels to look over him. I told him I was a Christian, and he was amazed that his prayers had been answered. We sent him on his way to the hospital in a taxi and that was that.

The nurse approached me after and said..."It's amazing this guy ran into you when he did...one more day and that hand would've had to have been amputated...the infection was THAT bad".

About a year later I saw the guy again...and his hand was fine.


...Kinda cool I had the desire I did (and ran into the person I did) on this day....

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
thumb up Somebody's on the right page.

No, somebody's on YOUR page.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'll say one word here for the others in the thread: Stop.
No. This is not your personal playground. If you want a "lets talk about how great Christians are forum...there are plenty out there. KMC is not one of them.

As long as you post things that don't make logical sense to me, I will respond, just as I do to EVERYONE else on this forum.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
You aren't really serious that this is all some grand lie, some charade based on a Nazi control technique, are you Alliance? (what was the point of that, really?)
There is a difference between a lie and something that is false. A lie implies maliciousness, direct falsification even though you actually know the truth.

What you are doing, in this instance, is not a lie, because you are saying something you actually believe to be true. That doesn't at all mean you are false. Christianity WAS a control technique and likely still is, though I'll refrain from making that a complete statement because I don't trust people's judgement of the present.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I do think people can be deluded. Its so obvious that Jews, all those liberal thinkers, homosexuals and gypsies are the problem with Germany's economy...the evidence is all around us. Obvious to ANYONE that can see.

People can very easily get caught up in mass-delusions. I guarantee that we're both engaged in some right now. This is not a night and day issue, you see it because you want too, because you have too.

Fece, who would be more on your side religiously than mine, gave a really clear example of when you CANT jump to conclusions.

Even if you COULD jump to the conclusion that this is supernatural, why is it your god? It could be anyone's god. Even if these instances are supernatural, you have no way of proving that it supports your arbitrary religious beliefs.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I suppose you'll have some devious trick for the demons that were cast from my wife's aunt with all of her sisters around, hmm?

Or some way that my father in law was healed of Hepatitus, while crapping white and blood just a day before?

Or some reason for the 1 year old baby from our church to fall from the second story building, rupture his spleen, but have it be a "false diagnosis" when he was healed on the way to UC Davis medical center?

Or the prophecy that I received from a pastor from SEATTLE who'd never met me before in my life that knew of my family's history of addiction and mental illness, who told me that it wouldn't pass into me (it hasn't stick out tongue ) or into my kids, when me and my wife had been talking about our concerns for our kids maybe inheriting traits from my family line THE SAME MORNING before he gave me that word?

Oh, that was him "cold reading" me... that's right. big grin

"devious?" This explains exactly why your religious views are intolerable. Any logical system can apply to everything else except for your own worldview. Other are "devious" trying to corrupt you. Please, grow up.

I hate to bring in other examples from other threads, but I will in this case.

Its like your position in the thread on hate speech where you claim that you don't like to offend or hurt anyone, but you have no problem with people hating or hurting homosexuals, simply because you, in your narrow view, dislike homosexuality.

The world is not here for you to decide what applies and what can be ignored. IGNORING contradiction is ignorance. All you have made is a series of self-gratifiying assumptions, none of which seem to have any basis but your own world view.


Originally posted by sithsaber408
Really, it's ridiculous for you to actually try to explain each and every occurence away as something that "just got lucky" or "you're crazy" or "you're lying".

I NEVER claimed you were lying. You ARE crazy.

I have simply stated that you have no reason for coming to these conclusions. You have no basis on which to make the claims you have beyond the reinforcement of your own world view.

I, on the other hand, have said that I'm simply not qualified to make judgements because I was not there, I don't have information I would need, and I don't have the qualifications to judge.

Your idea of "proof" is making incoherent lists of "facts." You say to yourself, "look how many there are, I must be right!," when you never actually examine the possibility that your "testimony" is not factual.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
The power of Jesus Christ is real, the Holy Spirit is real, and so is everything that I've seen and am testifying before you now.

Only to you. Have I told you the story of the man who tried to kill his son on top of my apartment building?'

My version of truth exists for everyone. Anyone can see it. Anyone can judge. Your truth exists in your world alone, which is why its so easily contorted into the nonsense.


Originally posted by sithsaber408
Be Blessed. cool
I don't wish ill upon you either.

Alliance
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
About a year later I saw the guy again...and his hand was fine.
Testimony: Hospitals sometimes can effectively treat disease?

EPIIIBITES
How about...

Testimony: The promping of the Holy Spirit sometimes can effectively lead to someone getting a disease treated.

Boris
HAHAHA, yeah, tell that to a Aids/Cancer patient.

Alliance
Why was the desire to help someone prompting by the holy spirit?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
How about...the promping of the Holy Spirit can effectively lead to getting someone's disease treated?

The Holy Spirit is a myth. You can believe in it, if you wish.

Goddess Kali
Some Myths help us in Reality, so I'm all for the shedding of the Holy Spirit upon my mouth droolio

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by Alliance
Why was the desire to help someone prompting by the holy spirit? It's all there in the story...

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Some Myths help us in Reality, so I'm all for the shedding of the Holy Spirit upon my mouth droolio

roll eyes (sarcastic) I'm not surprised. sick

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
roll eyes (sarcastic) I'm not surprised. sick


HEY !



Jesus Christ TASTES GOOD ! I LOVE DRINKING JESUS ! droolio



BEND DOWN ! ON YOUR KNEES FOR CHRIST, YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR !!!!!

Alliance
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
It's all there in the story...

There is no reason for that conclusion.

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by Boris
HAHAHA, yeah, tell that to a Aids/Cancer patient.
I've heard miracles of people with cancer getting healed.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I've heard miracles of people getting healed from cancer.

I saw a guy cut a woman in half and she survived. I saw it with my own two eyes, so it MUST be true. wink

EPIIIBITES
Originally posted by Alliance
There is no reason for that conclusion. Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
...Kinda cool I had the desire I did (and ran into the person I did) on this day.... That's the Holy Spirit, and that's my tesimony. There's no real reason to explain it any further. I don't blame you for not believing me.

Alliance
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
That's the Holy Spirit, and that's my tesimony. There's no real reason to explain it any further. I don't blame you for not believing me.

No, thats you seeing a person with problems and taking action. Honestly, if I walked up to any homeless person. of whcih many I pass every day...I bet I could find a way to help them.

THATS the issue. This is a matter of belief and illogical. There is nothign factual about it.

I saw a pink elephant! (of course, never stating that the elephant was merely painted pink.)

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I've heard miracles of people with cancer getting healed.

I also know that cancer is not necessarily a fatal disease.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Nellinator
Peter Popoff does bother me. His "miracle water" is so blatantly ridiculous it hurts.

One thing, why are all those kids speaking in tongues without an interpreter? That is not how it is supposed to be. Speaking in tongues is only supposed to be done so that everyone can understand and be edified.

Besides, tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not believers (1 Corinthians 14:22).
Although I'm not one who believes that the spiritual gifts of prophecy and healing aren't present today, I seriously doubt anyone who claims that he or she is a prophet or healer. The only time I've heard of actual accurate prophecy in the present days is from people heavily into the occult.

I feel that most glossolalia--and by "most" I mean "all the cases that I've heard of"--is either as I described previously or little more than charlatans who are full of crap. The way that glossolalia is usually presented today is that of foolishness. True glossolalia, I believe, is a calm, solemn event, not something where people are jumping around like chimps and yelling about the Holy Spirit.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The mind is a powerful thing. We can cure ourselves of almost anything, if we just believe we can. However, this is difficult for people to do. It is easier for people to believe in something outside of their selves. Faith healing is just that, faith healing.

Demons and spirits do not exist, and the power of healing is not magic. We have control over our bodies, we just don't realize that.
You assert that such a belief is true and dismiss ours? Ridiculous and downright stupid.

While I don't doubt your experiences, I am dubious that so many miracles would have occurred within one family.

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