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Who would win between these great Jedi Masters? Both are Jedi Masters and Council Members, and are likely both #1 of their respective era's. Because not many people know who Kol is, this is what he did, in the first Legacy comic (hes' the Jedi with the blue blade):

It has been confirmed that he took out at least 7 Sith, possibly more. I personally go with Ko, though it's close. Yoda's very strong, and those Sith are for the most part fairly weak, and while I believe that Yoda could have taken out seven of them, I doubt he could take out 7, while fending off several others, quite as quickly as Kol did. Plus Kol was fighting Stormtroopers, too, see the pile stacking up under him?


And please don't just say Yoda cause you like him better.

Yoda has this.

The entire Massacre on Ossus battle was already taken care of by myself, and AcStyles:

Originally posted by Advent
: How good were any of those Sith? Indeed, it would seem that they're severely lacking in combative skill. If you recall:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5681/sithminions2kfgl3.th.png

A fourteen year old padawan, Cade Skywalker, was able to seemingly effortlessly take down one of those Sith minions with a bare foot kick. In addition to that, he was able to slice his way through several of those lackeys with another padawan of the same age, even when outnumbered:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/6150/ossusflashback2xz4.th.png

One could only assume that they don't possess godly skill, and, at best, have training and ability comparative to that of youngling (like Ashla). And those scans are great, except for the fact you leave out several key elements that turn down the extraordinary volume of the feat, but don't worry; because as you can see, I've provided such.

Now, I'm not trying to take anything away from Kol's achievement, as it's undeniably remarkable, but based on that alone, he'll be able to take down Yoda? Yeah, right.

But the one Sith that he took out with a kick was probably focused on Kol and didn't see Cade coming. That's a good point with Cade and the other Padawan getting through several Sith, though, I guess those Sith must be even waker than I though.

Only as strong as Ashla? That seems a little harsh, I doubt someone as strong as Ashla would ever become a Sith, they were likely a little stronger than that.

Hmm... how close do you think that it would be?

Originally posted by darthsith19
But the one Sith that he took out with a kick was probably focused on Kol and didn't see Cade coming.

Originally posted by Advent
Sure, he was, because he couldn't see a young boy flinging his foot around like the Karate Kid, even when to shadow kick him like he did, he would've had to see him beforehand, since Cade came from the front, and there was ample viewing room.



Of course.

I mean, they must possess some type of strength, but all in all, they really aren't of much worth. And the feat itself isn't nearly as impressive as the things we've seen Yoda accomplish.



You know I was exaggerating.

It's obvious they aren't that unskilled, as she isn't even talented whatsoever. It's more alluding to the fact that they obviously do not possess any type of abilities above that of an average padawan, at best. In other words, they suck.



It's hard to say, actually. We haven't seen the full capabilities of Kol, but what has been shown thus far, I definitely wouldn't even rank him remotely close to Yoda. Defeating Darth Nihl was impressive, to say the least, but an out of practice, minimally trained Cade Skywalker was able to hold him off, and defeat him (albeit; after Jariah shot him with a blaster ), and he also had lessened his force connection due to his abuse of deathsticks.

I'd go so far as to say that Yoda firmly wins, and that "Killer" Kol Skywalker doesn't stand much of a chance when looking at the battle on paper (as they should be).

I think Yoda.

Yoda.

Yoda could easily replicate that feat.

If you'll remember, Sidious, Yoda's apparent equal with a blade, was able to run through Agen "I crushed Quinlan Vos" Kolar, Saesee Tiin, and Kit "I destroy magnaguards with two swings" Fisto, all of whom were some of the "best swordsmen ever produced by the Order," without even focusing on them.

One hundred of those lackeys wouldn't stand a chance against Yoda.

Kol hits the ground hard.

I think that Kol puts up a valiant fight, but in the end loses.

That fight was riduculous, but what makes you say that Sidious wasn't concentrating on them? And no, Yoda couldn't take down 100 Sith, even weak Sith, at once, I sure hope you're exaggerating.

Most of his attacks were directed towards Mace, that's what I meant by not concentrating on them.

And I'm not exaggerating. He just jumps headlong into them and takes them out one by one. Yoda could dodge attacks from three Jeid Masters (one was Depa, I think), without his lightsaber out and barely moving. If he stayed mobile he would just wade through them, and they wouldn't even be able to keep track of him.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Most of his attacks were directed towards Mace, that's what I meant by not concentrating on them.

And I'm not exaggerating. He just jumps headlong into them and takes them out one by one. Yoda could dodge attacks from three Jeid Masters (one was Depa, I think), without his lightsaber out and barely moving. If he stayed mobile he would just wade through them, and they wouldn't even be able to keep track of him.
How can most of his attacks have been directed at Mace when he never attacked Mace until Agen and Saesee were already dead?

And how is Yoda supposed to pick them off one at a time and not die by a hudnred lighstabers striking at him at once? Dodging atatcks from 3 Jedi while not fighting back is far easier than dodging attacks from 100 Sith at once while taking them down, unless the Jedi are on NJO Luke's level. Did he barely move, I can't remember than, quote please?

I don't have the quote, all apologies.

The point of wading into them is to cut down the advantages of numbers. It's something that Yoda himself taught Luke. I don't see how all 100 can attack him at once if he's moving faster than they can perceive and will only be next to a few at a time.

I doubt if Kol could beat the old Jedi Master.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
I doubt if Kol could beat the old Jedi Master. Agree.

Here y'ar:

Originally posted by Advent
I'll quote this passage of Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, found in chapter 30:

"Three members of the council - Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Billaba, excellent fighters - all had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him."

Darth Maul had longed to test his "true skill" against the "truly great Jedi warriors", and named Plo Koon, as one of them, alongside Mace Windu. Mace Windu has stated that Depa's bladework (in other words, her sheer talent; not including physical or mental attributes) surpassed his own. And finally, Saesee Tiin was noted as being " of the greatest swordsmen Order has ever produced".

The fact that Yoda was able to almost effortlessly dodge such attacks, which were in conjunction with each other speaks a vast amount for Yoda's maneuverability, and superiority over even the most powerful of Jedi.

Turns out Advent posted it conveniently right after I couldn't find it.

It really doesn't mean much. It was a pre planned demonstration to the padawans, with the purpose of teaching them a lesson. Such things shouldn't be taken too seriously, now if Yoda did that in a real life situation, then he'd get mad man points, but he didn't, and there's no proof that he could.

Yoda did do that. He was showing how the force helps in combat more than speed or technique.

Unless you think Yoda was lying to his students so that he would look badass. I doubt it.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
It really doesn't mean much. It was a pre planned demonstration to the padawans, with the purpose of teaching them a lesson. Such things shouldn't be taken too seriously, now if Yoda did that in a real life situation, then he'd get mad man points, but he didn't, and there's no proof that he could.

So what are you saying? That they practiced it over and over before hand so that Yoda would look l33t and that he could not do it in another situation?

Do you even think about what you say before you say them?

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
So what are you saying? That they practiced it over and over before hand so that Yoda would look l33t and that he could not do it in another.
I'm sure that's not what he meant. He means no matter what Plo, Depa and Saesee wouldn't get any hits in on Yoda, even if they had an opportunity to, because it's a non-real combat situation - they weren't really trying to hurt Yoda. If, during the demonstration, one of them had an opportunity to hurt Yoda they still wouldn't be able to, because their not trying to hurt Yoda. That's the point of the demonstration, and what Apollo Cloud said made perfect sense. I believe that you are the one in need of thinking about what you say before you say them.

Sorry, Darthsith, but I had to take down the comic book pages; that would take some people years to load the page...

I wish we knew more about Kol.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I'm sure that's not what he meant. He means no matter what Plo, Depa and Saesee wouldn't get any hits in on Yoda, even if they had an opportunity to, because it's a non-real combat situation - they weren't really trying to hurt Yoda. If, during the demonstration, one of them had an opportunity to hurt Yoda they still wouldn't be able to, because their not trying to hurt Yoda. That's the point of the demonstration, and what Apollo Cloud said made perfect sense. I believe that you are the one in need of thinking about what you say before you say them.

How do you know what they are and are not trying to do? If they're swinging at him with their lightsabers requiring him to move out of the way to avoid them because if he didn't he'd killed or at least hurt then its real. You cant slip up when it comes to lightsabers. And if you mean that they were not attempting to hit Yoda then that also makes no sense as the demonstration would be completely pointless. It'd look kinda ridiculous if they were just swinging at completely random and Yoda was going out of his way to get in the way of the saber for the sole purpose of getting out of the way.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I'm sure that's not what he meant. He means no matter what Plo, Depa and Saesee wouldn't get any hits in on Yoda, even if they had an opportunity to, because it's a non-real combat situation - they weren't really trying to hurt Yoda. If, during the demonstration, one of them had an opportunity to hurt Yoda they still wouldn't be able to, because their not trying to hurt Yoda. That's the point of the demonstration, and what Apollo Cloud said made perfect sense. I believe that you are the one in need of thinking about what you say before you say them.

Well, now that's just completely stupid. I own Shadow Hunter and the point of the lesson was to emphasize the importance of speed and agility to the ones who observed it. If the demonstration was "choreographed" and the Council members held restraint, it would completely undermine the lesson itself.

I'm not saying that it did happen, just that it could have happened - what if Yoda screwed up, was unable to dodge one of the strikes, then that Jedi would have to not kill him because that would ruin the demonstration. You can't slip up when it comes to lightsabers? Right... And as long as they appear to be trying their hardest the Younglings would know no difference between real or not so the demonstration would still have the same point. I didn't say they were swinging completely random, but if they were going all-out on Yoda and one of them would have actually hit him then the one would have to stop before the blade hit Yoda, or move it away to the side of Yoda.

If it appeared real then the point of the lesson would still be the same. It wouldn't make a difference as long as the Younglings thought that it was real.

Say what? The point of the lesson was to emphasize the importance of speed in the context of a combat-oriented situation. If Yoda - or any of the Councilmen - restrained themselves, it would totally undermine the point. If that were the case, the demonstration would be utterly false, and tantamount to deception. There is no reason to believe that Yoda or the Council would be so reckless and duplicitous as to restrain themselves and take such a wild risk of teaching their students something that isn't possible.

Originally posted by Gideon
Say what? The point of the lesson was to emphasize the importance of speed in the context of a combat-oriented situation. If Yoda - or any of the Councilmen - restrained themselves, it would totally undermine the point. If that were the case, the demonstration would be utterly false, and tantamount to deception. There is no reason to believe that Yoda or the Council would be so reckless and duplicitous as to restrain themselves and take such a wild risk of teaching their students something that isn't possible.
How would it undermine the point as long as the Younglings thought that it was real? And again, I didn't say that they did hold back, only that they may have held back. Thus is can't really be used as proof.

Because the point of the exercise was combat related. Deceiving them would essentially be arming them with a false lesson: Yoda's speed is capable of evading three powerful Jedi masters. If that isn't true, I don't see why Yoda or the others would demonstrate such a thing, since the Jedi philosophy does not rely on half-truths, exaggeration, or deception.



Lmao, if that's all you've got, then yes it does count. You must provide proof that they weren't restraining themselves before this thing can be dismissed.

Gideon is right, except, the lesson wasn't about speed. At all. It was about the force. How the force is better than speed or technique alone.

His points are still correct, though.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Gideon is right, except, the lesson wasn't about speed. At all. It was about the force. How the force is better than speed or technique alone.

His points are still correct, though.

Oh.

Sorry... it had to be done. It was still a valid fight though, because Yoda isn't going to lie to younglings, especially if it would only lead to overconfidence.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Sorry... it had to be done. It was still a valid fight though, because Yoda isn't going to lie to younglings, especially if it would only lead to overconfidence.

Oh.

You were only wrong on an insignificant (to this) detail.

How would deceiving them be arming them with a false lesson? You can use the Force to dodge attacks, that was the point of the demonstration, so Yoda could have just gone to extreme amounts to build up their confidence, they will do better if they have high-esteem. So by a false demonstration they would be teaching the Younglings that you can dodge attacks with the Force, because that's what the Youngligns would believe after viewing the demonstration. So the same point would be taught either way.

Originally posted by darthsith19
How would deceiving them be arming them with a false lesson? You can use the Force to dodge attacks, that was the point of the demonstration, so Yoda could have just gone to extreme amounts to build up their confidence, they will do better if they have high-esteem. So by a false demonstration they would be teaching the Younglings that you can dodge attacks with the Force, because that's what the Youngligns would believe after viewing the demonstration. So the same point would be taught either way.

First, that is ridiculous: true Jedi - unlike the Sith - don't operate through deception and exaggeration of their abilities. If the Council members restrained themselves during the demonstration, it would be tantamount to deception, which betrays not only the exercise itself, but also the principles of the Jedi Order. These are Younglings, impressionable, young kids. These lessons are given to educate them. The message is that the Force is capable of allowing wielders the speed to evade attacks made by opponents, and someone who is entrenched in the Force as Yoda is capable of evading the attacks of three very powerful and capable duelists. If the Council members weren't trying, the fundamentals of the lesson would be pointless, and they would have been not only exaggerating their abilities, but lying to the Younglings in the process in a demonstration that was supposed to educate them.

Second, you don't have proof that the Council members were holding back, like you asserted. Thus, the example can still be used as proof, and this argument is over.

Originally posted by Gideon
If that isn't true, I don't see why Yoda or the others would demonstrate such a thing, since the Jedi philosophy does not rely on half-truths, exaggeration, or deception.

"Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights. He betrayed and murdered your father."

Yea, no half-truths there, lol. J/k.

DS - it would be a false lesson if it were set up because that would mean that none were confident in Yoda's ability to properly utilize force to dodge the attack; and if done like that - but portrayed to the younglings as real - they would think it would still work, when in reality it wouldn't. If the grandmaster of the Jedi council couldn't do it with 3 masters going all out, then a lesser padawan could never do it in a real fight. Get it?

Damn it Gideon posted first, ah well...yes, the onus is on you to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were holding back. Your opinion on the matter means dick. There is nothing to even suggest that they were holding back, therefore proof, therefore over (as Gideon has already said )