Your KOTOR Sith Empire

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Nikkolas
In the Sith Empire, where the powerful rule, who reigns and at what position?

This does not take into account intelligence or tactical ability. It goes simply by power.

For purpose of this, make only 3 Sith Lords and 2 Sith Marauders.

Dark Lord of the Sith
Lord Nihilus

The Sith Lords
Darth Revan
Darth Traya
Darth Malak

Sith Marauder
Lord Sion
Lord Bandon

Darth Sexy
Revan would be the DLOTS.. Why would Nihilus be a DLOTS? Revan is more powerful and Nihilus doesn't give two shits about the sith or the Jedi, he's just hungry.

Nikkolas
The Sith Empire is arranged by power, correct? I didn't think that keeping the faith is a requirement.

Besides, Nihilus targetted the Jedi. Only after they were all dead would he turn on the Sith. And is that anything out of the ordinary? Betraying your fellows for greater power is a time-honored Sith tradition. If nothing else, Nihilus understood the tactical advantages of keeping the Sith around or he would have just started eating all of them instead of finishing off the Jedi first.

And Lord Bane and Andeddu did not seem upset by the fact he was featured alongside them.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
The Sith Empire is arranged by power, correct? I didn't think that keeping the faith is a requirement.


Except for the fact that he'll kill sith just as well as Jedi, he cares nothing for the sith tradition. And yes the sith empire is still arranged in power which would make either Revan or Kun the DLOTS with Nihilus being a sith lord.


I don't recall them paying any attention to him whatsoever.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nikkolas
The Sith Empire is arranged by power, correct? I didn't think that keeping the faith is a requirement.

Besides, Nihilus targetted the Jedi. Only after they were all dead would he turn on the Sith. And is that anything out of the ordinary? Betraying your fellows for greater power is a time-honored Sith tradition. If nothing else, Nihilus understood the tactical advantages of keeping the Sith around or he would have just started eating all of them instead of finishing off the Jedi first.
Nihilus never cared about Sith teachings. He only cared about his hunger and would turn against the Sith, once he had dealt with the Jedi.

But the problem is that he would actually eat the Sith and not rule over them as a DLOTS. He was an ultimate killing machine that needed to be stopped. And guess what? a Sith Lord Darth Traya already planned his demise (using Exile for the job), before he could turn against the Sith too.

Nihilus (despite having all the valid traits for consideration as a DLOTS and being very powerful) is actually a victim of his hunger and he is weak in this regard. And according to Sith teachings, if a weakness is discovered in a Sith Lord - that Sith Lord must be destroyed or unseated.

EDIT

I agree with Darth Sexy that Darth Revan is a perfect option for being crowned as a DLOTS. He is even considered to be a candidate for Sith'ari.

Nikkolas
You have any proof whatsoever Revan is stronger than Nihilus?

Kun is more arguable but nothing I've ever heard of Revan puts him anywhere near those two in terms of power.

And the Sith will kill each other for greater power... Nihilus will dot hat too but in a more primal way.



Did any of them even talk to each other or just to Krayt?



And a Sith will turn on another Sith for greater power...



That's because she doesn't want all life in the Galaxy sacrified to his hunger.

And she also happens to be Palpatine's female counterpart ie. she's a few steps ahead of everyone around her via manipulation.



This is actually a valid point. But how does one go about exploiting his weakness to usurp him?

Then again, with the combination of Revan's tactical genius and Kreia's conniving mind...they could destroy him through some non-forward method. As to the exact nature of the method they could concot, I have no idea.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
You have any proof whatsoever Revan is stronger than Nihilus?
Uh, yea, some of us have been offering it from day 1. He knews a LOT more ancient sith techniques than Nihilus and according to sources from KOTOR, his raw force abilities were on another level. Nihilus just has his force drain.


Except at the very least, he is on par with Nihilus, while realistically he and Kun are more powerful than Nihilus



Andeddu acknowledged Bane, that was it.





Kun and his sith magic/amulets, Revan and his ancient sith techniques, would destroy Nihilus. Sorry but he's not more powerful than either of them.

Nikkolas
Do we have any statements on how much Ancient Sith knowledge he gained?



What sources? What do they actually say? Nihilus wasn't even around in KOTOR as far as we know.



You really need to stop that. Nihilus has shown a good variety of powers such as stun, choke, TK, consciousness transferal, some power to keep people alive.

True his drain is his most prominent and distinctive power but it's not his only.

What canon powers does Revan have? Force lightning Storm? Some TP?



What do you mean "realistically?" What does Revan have that makes him more powerful than Nihilus?



Do you know if the scans are on SWTimeline?



So Kun walks up to Nihilus? Nihilus drains the life out of him.

Just by being in Nihilus' presence is said to drain The Force from people.

He can do it steadily or just fully drain you and Kun is not surviving Nihilus' full drain at the very least.



What techniques? Name some.



Kun has a chance with his amulet blasts and that's all.

Revan has no chance until I see something that proves he has even close to the power Nihilus does.



Kun is close but Revan is most definitely not.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Do we have any statements on how much Ancient Sith knowledge he gained?
According to POD, he had a wide range of ancient sith knowledge.




So what? Having one technique doesn't make you more powerful than someone who has tons. Revan and Kun both have tons.



You really need to stop that. Nihilus has shown a good variety of powers such as stun, choke, TK, consciousness transferal, some power to keep people alive.

True his drain is his most prominent and distinctive power but it's not his only.
Choke, stun, and TK are basic.


I guess his version of the force storm would be the one Bane needed the entire brotherhood for, except Revan was able to perform it himself. He has the thought bomb, and other listless ancient sith techniques. Not to mention he ripped a language from a force sensitive species and gave them basic.




From logical deduction, he has more abilities, more techniques, and more raw force potential.



I highly doubt it.




Unlikely, Kun walks up to him and disintegrates him with the amulet blast.

Don't remember anything like that, didn't see Traya or Sion "drained".


And Nihilus isn't surviving Kun's sith magic or amulet blasts.


A chance? No, Kun has a victory with his amulet blasts and sith magic. Notice how when he had the amulet on, the "wall of light" technique, which takes the force away from a user, wasn't successful on him, so it's logical that he could either survive the drain, or possibly even stop it.


That's your opinion as the official Nihilus fanboy who's on here 24/7, but you haven't brought any argument here that puts Nihilus above Kun or Revan.





Good thing your opinion is reinforced by a cogent argument. Oh wait.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nikkolas
You have any proof whatsoever Revan is stronger than Nihilus?
Almost single-handedly destroying an entire Sith army on Star Forge, defeating the SF backed Bastilla 4 times in a row and then eliminating the SF empowered Malak in a single combat.

This feat alone shows us the true measure of his power.

Without the use of Super-Drain, Nihilus cannot gain victory in such circumstances.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Kun is more arguable but nothing I've ever heard of Revan puts him anywhere near those two in terms of power.
The Jedi Masters of KOTOR era knew both Kun and Revan well and they considered both of them to be formidable threats. It is hard to decide that who was better among these two Sith Lords but Revan himself once said that the Sith of his time were more powerful then before and that included him.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
And the Sith will kill each other for greater power... Nihilus will dot hat too but in a more primal way.
And so would any other Sith Lord.

But the problem is that Nihilus would eat the Sith too. Others will not.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
And a Sith will turn on another Sith for greater power...
I agree but Nihilus will turn on the Sith themselves to eat them. His quest was not for achieveing greater power like in the case of other Sith Lords.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
That's because she doesn't want all life in the Galaxy sacrified to his hunger.
She is sensible after-all.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
And she also happens to be Palpatine's female counterpart ie. she's a few steps ahead of everyone around her via manipulation.
Agreed.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
This is actually a valid point. But how does one go about exploiting his weakness to usurp him?

Then again, with the combination of Revan's tactical genius and Kreia's conniving mind...they could destroy him through some non-forward method. As to the exact nature of the method they could concot, I have no idea.
You already answered your question.

Nikkolas

Nikkolas
Gameplay.



Average Malak is nothing all that special when compared to upper-tier. Do we have any evidence how strong Malak with the Star Forge is?
Statements or feats?



I don't deny Revan is powerful.



His Tk be useful.



Doesn't mean they're close in power unless they said "Revan is as big a threat as Exar" or "his power rivals Kun's" or something.

Just means they're both threats. Anything can be a threat and for a lot of reasons.



Revan's words do not equal fact. We've seen Kun do things Revan hasn't.

A lot of things.

Nikkolas
Would anyone else mind making their own lists or is this gonna degenerate into me and DS arguing?

S_W_LeGenD

Nikkolas
Alright then. What canon powers and feats can we give him? What is said and what is shown that we can quantify his power with?



Point.



Define "heavy objects"? An W-wing is heavy....



I agree. I do not overrate Nihilus' power as far as I know. I give full credit to the powers demonstrated by others such as Kun, Kyp, etc.. But I just don't see enough of Revan to say he's stronger than Nihilus.



Hm...

Would you happen to have the quote?

Not doubting just would like to read it for myself 'cause i never heard that before in all the topics I've seen with Revan.



This Jedi Master knows Nihilus?



It tells me he is strong, which I do not deny. Kreia also said of Nihilus that his power is so great, he doesn't even see things as we do. This is later clarified with the quotes about him seeing planets and stars and people being relatively nothing.

I don't think Nihilus ever met any Ancient Sith.



Too dangerous period or too dangerous for the young Darth Bane to know or what?



I never said his powers were low or he was weak.



Possibly. We don't know how long he was actually exposed to anyone once he became like that except the people on his ship. So we can't guage its effect on Force users.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Alright then. What canon powers and feats can we give him? What is said and what is shown that we can quantify his power with?
I will send a detailed summary about Revan's power and feats to you through PM. So better wait for it.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Define "heavy objects"? An W-wing is heavy....
Examples can be: Objects as heavy as a TIE Fighter, Truck etc...

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I agree. I do not overrate Nihilus' power as far as I know. I give full credit to the powers demonstrated by others such as Kun, Kyp, etc.. But I just don't see enough of Revan to say he's stronger than Nihilus.
Revan is indeed stronger than Nihilus in some aspects of the Force, if not all.

Originally posted by Nikkolas Would you happen to have the quote?

Not doubting just would like to read it for myself 'cause i never heard that before in all the topics I've seen with Revan.

Actually I posted it in a thread in this forum but I do not remember the name of that thread now. And KOTOR is not even installed in my system. So I can't help much in this regard but I will explain some details regarding this in my Summary that I will PM you! wink

Originally posted by Nikkolas
This Jedi Master knows Nihilus?
I do not know about this but he knows Kun well.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
It tells me he is strong, which I do not deny. Kreia also said of Nihilus that his power is so great, he doesn't even see things as we do. This is later clarified with the quotes about him seeing planets and stars and people being relatively nothing.
I agree that Nihilus became very powerful but Kriea also hinted on the power of Revan. All I can say is that both of these Sith were very powerful.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I don't think Nihilus ever met any Ancient Sith.
Off Topic: He met Krayt though and made fun of him! hehehe!

Anyways! Revan did met one and that ancient Sith was not an ordinary person. And Ajunta was clearly amazed by the strength of Revan in the Force.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Too dangerous period or too dangerous for the young Darth Bane to know or what?
Darth Bane was a talented person and he possibly studied from large number of Sith Archives in Korriban and we know that Korriban is like a treasure of Sith knowledge. Even then he was amazed by the knowledge of Revan.

I can safely say that Revan is the 2nd most knowledgeable Sith after Sidious.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I never said his powers were low or he was weak.
Well! Revan and Nihilus never failed to amaze any person they engaged against.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Possibly. We don't know how long he was actually exposed to anyone once he became like that except the people on his ship. So we can't guage its effect on Force users.
Revan is certainly immune to this kind of effect because of his strong defensive abilities.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Knowledge does not always equate to power.
Right, being the heart of the force doesn't equate to power.




Nihilus drained A planet. Revan knew the technique to destroy Jedi and Sith(thought bomb), the force storm, etc. His knowledge and power>Nihilus


A PLANET with an unknown number of Jedi, so stop speculating. Since there were less than 100 Jedi left alive and most left the order, there could have been 5 jedi on Katarr, or less, you don't know.




Uh youre messing with gameplay mechanics right now, because you don't know if Nihilus canonically had stun as well, double standards?


Denial can be a *****


Uh, yea, the thought bomb is the second most deadly technique next to Sidious' force storm. It traps the life force of Jedi and Sith alike forever. I'd say that's more powerful than draining one planet.


The same force storm that took out the entire forest on Ruusan


Being the heart of the force, and all the verball given to him. Nihilus' power comes from him being a wound, there was nothing noteworthy or known about him before the events of Malachor except that he was one of the sith in Revan's empire.


Good for you, I'll take numerous amounts of ancient sith techniques, sith magic, and sith alchemy over 1 drained planet.




Oh right, because Nihilus was chucking around Visas, Mandalore, Traya, etc, with the force. Oh wait, he wasn't chucking anyone with the force. Kun would curbstomp him.



Gee, somebody was asleep for the destruction of Yavin IV. One person using the wall of light can take away the force from somebody, and Kun's amulet was more than likely the defnense for it.


Yet Kun's amulet blast is instant and would disintegrate Nihilus. Hell, I doubt Nihilus can drain Kun in the first place, seeing as how he's never faced anyone as powerful.




Killed a planet by speaking, lol.. Good one. Lift a fleet? AKA the ravager. I guess Kyp Durron is a force god.


Yea, Revan has one technique, that's why Bane stated that the knowledge and techniques Revan showed Bane were more valuable than ANYTHING on Korriban. Bye bye Nihilus.

Good for you, Kun and Revan are more powerful.

Nikkolas
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=646&page=068

They don't say anything specifically to each other from what I see.

Tangible God
Revan would never submit to Nihilus, no matter Nihilus's abilities. And Nihilus cares nothing for the Sith. In a Sith Empire where the Jedi are dead or hard to come by, Nihilus would just turn on his own.

He only uses the Sith to further his own goals, and once the Jedi are gone, they're next. For all intents and purposes, he's no Sith.

DLOTS
Revan

Sith Lords
Traya
Malak
Sion

Marauders
Bandon
Actually, MAYBE Sion.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Gameplay.
Gameplay has nothing to do with that feat. Revan was the one who actually turned the tide of that war. And he was called The Prodigal Knight for a good reason by Master Vandar.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Average Malak is nothing all that special when compared to upper-tier. Do we have any evidence how strong Malak with the Star Forge is?
Statements or feats?
Average Malak is on level of Count Dooku, if not better and he still knows more techniques.

And Malak put up an exceptional fight on the Star Forge. What indication did you got from that?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
I don't deny Revan is powerful.
No one can. He is not just powerful but very powerful.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Doesn't mean they're close in power unless they said "Revan is as big a threat as Exar" or "his power rivals Kun's" or something.
They said that both were significant threats. This means that they both were powerful enough to give immense trouble to the Republic and the Jedi Order of their times.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Just means they're both threats. Anything can be a threat and for a lot of reasons.
The level of threat is determined by power.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Revan's words do not equal fact. We've seen Kun do things Revan hasn't.
Revan has studied the ancients and that includes Exar Kun. He knows what he is saying.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
A lot of things.
When you will see the summary that I will make. Your views will soon change.

Kadesh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


I agree with Darth Sexy that Darth Revan is a perfect option for being crowned as a DLOTS. He is even considered to be a candidate for Sith'ari. But he turned back to the light so that erased him as a candidate

Nikkolas
I bet it's Darth Krayt. laughing laughing

A Dose Of Vraya
Originally posted by Nikkolas
In the Sith Empire, where the powerful rule, who reigns and at what position?

This does not take into account intelligence or tactical ability. It goes simply by power.

For purpose of this, make only 3 Sith Lords and 2 Sith Marauders.

Dark Lord of the Sith
Lord Nihilus

The Sith Lords
Darth Revan
Darth Traya
Darth Malak

Sith Marauder
Lord Sion
Lord Bandon
Dark Lord of the Sith:
Darth Revan
Sith Lords: (duh)
Darth Traya
Darth Nihilus
Darth Sion (that reminds me of something)
Marauders:
Bane
Malak

A Dose Of Vraya
That's because she doesn't want all life in the Galaxy sacrified to his hunger.

And she also happens to be Palpatine's female counterpart ie. she's a few steps ahead of everyone around her via manipulation.



I noticed that too, plus there's the fact that they're both old and crusty, they're both members of the darkside, and of course the fact that Traya's death cutscene is a duplicate of palpatine's
(ohhhh George, you and your lack of creativity.)

Tangible God
Are you responding to your own post?

A Dose Of Vraya
Originally posted by Tangible God
Are you responding to your own post? nope, its a quote from somebody on the first page, but it was a really long post so I just copied and pasted that part

A Dose Of Vraya
Originally posted by Nikkolas
You have any proof whatsoever Revan is stronger than Nihilus?

Kun is more arguable but nothing I've ever heard of Revan puts him anywhere near those two in terms of power.

And the Sith will kill each other for greater power... Nihilus will dot hat too but in a more primal way.



Did any of them even talk to each other or just to Krayt?



And a Sith will turn on another Sith for greater power...



That's because she doesn't want all life in the Galaxy sacrified to his hunger.

And she also happens to be Palpatine's female counterpart ie. she's a few steps ahead of everyone around her via manipulation.



This is actually a valid point. But how does one go about exploiting his weakness to usurp him?

Then again, with the combination of Revan's tactical genius and Kreia's conniving mind...they could destroy him through some non-forward method. As to the exact nature of the method they could concot, I have no idea.

exanda kane
Out of the KOTOR bunch, Revan should be the the Dark Lord of the Sith; there's a reason why, out of all those other candidates, he became the first. The rest are simply usurpers.

exanda kane
Originally posted by Kadesh
But he turned back to the light so that erased him as a candidate

Bastila's claims that (light side or darkside Revan) began regaining more of his memories, and eventually recalled the threat lurking on the edge of the Galaxy. Although, canonically, Revan did destroy the Star Forge, he may have ventured willingly to the dark side, as was his plan after Malachor V, again to stop the True Sith. It's not a fact though, but its a speculation that can certainly deduced easily from the dialogue of KOTOR 2.

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