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Michael Jackson is coming out with a new album this November

Awesome, I'll buy it.

-AC

Yeah, what he said.

There have been reports of collaborations with will.i.am (of The Black Eyed Peas), Teddy Riley, DJ Whoo Kid, Akon, Chris Brown and 50 Cent.

Oh well.

If that's the case I won't bother.

-AC

I'll still get it

It sounds interesting until you mention collaborations, then it's a definite 'NO!'.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Michael Jackson is coming out with a new album this November

Yes!





EDIT: What is your source btw?

From my mind...oh and these links:

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003526647
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003526647

...

In a span of 5 seconds I went through the exact some feelings as AC. WTF? Why the f*ck is he collaborating with these douches?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
There have been reports of collaborations with will.i.am (of The Black Eyed Peas), Teddy Riley, DJ Whoo Kid, Akon, Chris Brown and 50 Cent.

sounds and will look like a ****ing nightmare

cant someone just shoot that scumbag Akon ?

So let me get this straight...

Some people here are saying that an upcoming album by someone who...


...has basically lost his own sense of identity...

...has lost confidence in himself as a human being, and especially in his abilities as a musician, dancer, etc...(considering he hasn't made an impact on the music scene in over a decade and has had one embarassing public performance after another in that time)...

...can't help but sound and look completely dated...

...is more or less a freak (and no, not the good kind of "Syd Barrett" freak) and a miserable person...


...that THIS guy is gonna make an album that couldn't benefit from even the slightest contribution from the Black Eyed Peas, 50 Cent, etc...?

Just curious, when you hear the name "Michael Jackson", do you just automically think..."Michael Jackson"? Well...judging from a discussion we had a while back on people who are fading away, it seems a lot of you do.


Michael Jackson is done.

Wow its 24 or so years since Thriller and people are still interested in his music!!!!..............................or is it the freakshow that will acompany it?
The only people looking forward to this are the insane and dumb black people.
Im ready for Beyonce,Akon etc all gushing and fiddling and diddling over his genius about how hes an "inspiration"....holla!
He was great pre 83 but nowadays he just sucks balls...and you can take that last comment how you want.

Can't wait for the video!

as long as its not like the Rock My World video or whatever it was called..he was creepy as **** in that

Oh, it'll be creepy.

I just hope it's not MJ dancing for a moment, and then 50 coming out of the background, fronting and with guns drawn, and chicks in bikinis shaking the junk over the both of them.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
Wow its 24 or so years since Thriller and people are still interested in his music!!!!..............................or is it the freakshow that will acompany it?
The only people looking forward to this are the insane and dumb black people.
Im ready for Beyonce,Akon etc all gushing and fiddling and diddling over his genius about how hes an "inspiration"....holla!
He was great pre 83 but nowadays he just sucks balls...and you can take that last comment how you want.

Says you. His Dangerous album came out in in 91 which was an amazing album with Dangerous, Heal the World, Black or White, Will You Be There, and Jam.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
The only people looking forward to this are the insane and dumb black people. WHAT??

I think I know what you're trying to say...but careful what you're saying dude! I can totally see the Black Eyed Peas working with him and licking up every wacko thing he suggests...and of course the photo op doesn't hurt.

...and I'd say he still was making a worthy contribution to the music world in the early 90s...but the red flags had already gone up, and it's been downhill from there.

did MJ actually seek out these "artists" out or did they just cough up a bunch of money to be featured on this (without a doubt) crappy record, which they then could say they collaborated with one of the greatest musicians ever

Originally posted by ESB -1138
There have been reports of collaborations with will.i.am (of The Black Eyed Peas), Teddy Riley, DJ Whoo Kid, Akon, Chris Brown and 50 Cent.
So he's now a black man who turned in to a white man that is now turning back in to a black man?

One day there'll be a Michael Jackson thread without the obligatory idiotic comments regarding his personal life.

One day.

-AC

he touched boys.

that's my job. perv.

AC, that is. MJ is cool.

Originally posted by vintageSW77

The only people looking forward to this are the insane and dumb black people.

Why say something so dumb? Seriously, why would you think that, type it, and then press 'Submit'?

Most people have various systems in place to prevent such idiocy.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Why say something so dumb? Seriously, why would you think that, type it, and then press 'Submit'?

Most people have various systems in place to prevent such idiocy.

What is yours?

Is it...is it dick?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Why say something so dumb? Seriously, why would you think that, type it, and then press 'Submit'?

Most people have various systems in place to prevent such idiocy. I don't think he was talking about "black people" in general...but African Americans who have a place in their heart for Michael Jackson because of his cultural influence, what he means to their community, etc.....but needlessly overglorify him.

I think he'd also say there would be just as many "insane, dumb", white people (or white Americans) who would be looking forward to a new Bruce Springsteen album for the same reasons...

...thing is...both of them suck now, and neither "The King of Pop" or "The Boss" deserve the praise.



"Watch you talking about man...that's The Boss!!!"

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I don't think he was talking about "black people" in general...but African Americans who have a place in their heart for Michael Jackson because of his cultural influence, what he means to their community, etc.....but needlessly overglorify him.

Well, when someone says something dumb, I assume dumb. I'm not going to sit here and morph his sentence into something less stupid.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES

I think he'd also say there would be just as many "insane, dumb", white people (or white Americans) who would be looking forward to a new Bruce Springsteen album for the same reasons...


Which would be just as idiotic.

take it how you want
im tired of hearing people whinging about un pc comments regarding black people

no matter what shit Jacko serves up there are a huge amount of black people around the world who will lap it up regardless of the attempts to rid himself completley of his afro features and the ever decreasing quality of his work
they fawn over him like some black god like musical genius when in fact hes an artist who will never match the glories of Thriller and who also looks like something from the darkest nightmares of Tim Burton with accusations that dont help this look either.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
take it how you want
im tired of hearing people whinging about un pc comments regarding black people

(Epibites- that's why I didn't give the benefit of the doubt)


It's nothing to do with PC, you fool. It's the use of ridiculous unsubstantiated claims to promote your own idiotic ideas.

As we will see:

Originally posted by vintageSW77

no matter what shit Jacko serves up there are a huge amount of black people around the world who will lap it up regardless of the attempts to rid himself completley of his afro features and the ever decreasing quality of his work

As well as white people.

Clearly then, what you have said isn't remarkable in its own right, so you bring an agenda to it. Given that the decline of his work is subjective, and you clearly have no figures regarding these stupid claims.


Originally posted by vintageSW77

they fawn over him like some black god like musical genius

Pathetic.

Originally posted by vintageSW77

when in fact hes an artist who will never match the glories of Thriller

Subjective. Not that declining work stops someone being a genius. Let's not put facts in the way of an insecure rant, though.

Originally posted by vintageSW77


and who also looks like something from the darkest nightmares of Tim Burton with accusations that dont help this look either.

Relevant to music?

Actually no, I'm being unfair.

Prove your 'The only people looking forward to this are the insane and dumb black people' was completely factual, and uncoloured by personal idiocy and we can stop thinking that the only people that say such things are brainless idiots.

Quid pro.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
One day there'll be a Michael Jackson thread without the obligatory idiotic comments regarding his personal life.

One day.

-AC
One day... But not this day!

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
(Epibites- that's why I didn't give the benefit of the doubt)


It's nothing to do with PC, you fool. It's the use of ridiculous unsubstantiated claims to promote your own idiotic ideas.

As we will see:



As well as white people.

Clearly then, what you have said isn't remarkable in its own right, so you bring an agenda to it. Given that the decline of his work is subjective, and you clearly have no figures regarding these stupid claims.




Pathetic.



Subjective. Not that declining work stops someone being a genius. Let's not put facts in the way of an insecure rant, though.



Relevant to music?

Actually no, I'm being unfair.

Prove your 'The only people looking forward to this are the insane and dumb black people' was completely factual, and uncoloured by personal idiocy and we can stop thinking that the only people that say such things are brainless idiots.

Quid pro.


There are certain members on this site with the time to get into pages of debate over stuff like this
im not one of them
break down what i say how you want
im just saying it how ive seen it
A large quality of blacks,celebs and questionably musicaly tasted whites are blind to the mediocrity of Jackos new work because of the so called enigma of Jacko
and with this new release we will have the usual suspects all declaring his musical genius with the obligitaroy "we love you Micheal" comments whilst gushing over a no doubt substandard album with the usual renta- street cred artists involved
I grow tired of weak hip hop n rnb polluting the air waves and this new album will be the latest addition to a genre that ran out of ideas round about the time the two merged.
Ive never gotten why so many black people still rate the ****er
its a strange phenomena
a scarred for life washed up wanna be white oddity with accusations that whilst having nothing to do with his music in this day of celeb mean everything to his career
its all about "product" with the kind of audience that listens to this shit nowadays and the "product" is soiled
an entertainer who hasnt had a decent track to put his at times still decent vocals to since he and quincy shook hands the day they completed Thriller
and still they want to go down and suck on that allegedly zebra striped cock.

and **** off with the "Quid Pro" you pretentious ****er

Originally posted by vintageSW77
There are certain members on this site with the time to get into pages of debate over stuff like this
im not one of them

I doubt you are capable of a page.

Originally posted by vintageSW77

break down what i say how you want

I am.


Originally posted by vintageSW77

A large quality of blacks,celebs and questionably musicaly tasted whites are blind to the mediocrity of Jackos new work because of the so called enigma of Jacko

This is why you're an idiot. You know what you said was dumb, but you will now, below, continue to riff on it.

Originally posted by vintageSW77


I grow tired of weak hip hop n rnb polluting the air waves and this new album will be the latest addition to a genre that ran out of ideas round about the time the two merged.

It's about time you changed the record (literally).

Originally posted by vintageSW77

Ive never gotten why so many black people still rate the ****er
its a strange phenomena

Idiot. Why did you feel the need to return to the point that you yourself proved was stupid?

Originally posted by vintageSW77

a scarred for life washed up wanna be white oddity with accusations that whilst having nothing to do with his music in this day of celeb mean everything to his career

At least you see you are going off-topic. Try self-editing, rather than admitting it.

Originally posted by vintageSW77

its all about "product" with the kind of audience that listens to this shit nowadays and the "product" is soiled

Music has always been sold, you tool. Do the bands you like give their music away?

What kind of audience would that be? Are they worse than ignorant, semi-literate fools?


Originally posted by vintageSW77

and still they want to go down and suck on that allegedly zebra striped cock.

You want the OTF.


Originally posted by vintageSW77

and **** off with the "Quid Pro" you pretentious ****er

Pretentious is a rather big word. Well done.

as for the "product" comment im talking about commercial Rnb/hip hop
the majority of fans of RnB and commercial Hip hop are as much interested in the image and moves as much as the music which given the standard of the music is understandable
a lot of people who listen to certain other genres dont give a **** what a band looks like
hence my comment
its about the music
that lot(Mj now included) are a bunch of dancers with a bit of singing on the side
its over choreographed ring tone shite
modern black popular culture isnt worth a shit..its superficial shallow wank and they (and an ever increasing bunch of moronic whites and asians in this country at least)lap it up
there you go

Originally posted by vintageSW77
as for the product comment im talking about commercial Rnb/hip hop the majority of fans of RnB and commercial Hip hop are as much interested in the image and moves as much as the music which given the standard of the music is fair enough
a lot of people who listen to other genres dont give a **** what a band looks like hence my comment
modern black popular culture isnt worth a shit..its superficial shallow wank and they lap it up
there you go

It's not 'black culture', it's hip hop culture.

It's no less shallow than other genres. In fact, no set of fans are more annoying than scenester 'emo' or 'metal' fans.

That fans of other genres don't care what bands look like is BS, because it is just as true of any genre. That's why they all look the same.

No one tells metal bands to dress like that- it doesn't aid the music. Same with 'emo'.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
as for the "product" comment im talking about commercial Rnb/hip hop
the majority of fans of RnB and commercial Hip hop are as much interested in the image and moves as much as the music which given the standard of the music is understandable
a lot of people who listen to other genres dont give a **** what a band looks like hence my comment
its about the music
that lot(Mj now included) are a bunch of dancers with a bit of singing on the side
its over choreographed ring tone shite
modern black popular culture isnt worth a shit..its superficial shallow wank and they (and an increasing bunch of moronic whites and asians)lap it up
there you go

. Let's put everyone else down for having different tastes and styles. Just because you don't like/agree with it , doesn't mean you have to be a prick about it.

Additionally, Jackson is hardly just a dancer who sings a bit.

-AC

Originally posted by Pezmerga
. Let's put everyone else down for having different tastes and styles. Just because you don't like/agree with it , doesn't mean you have to be a prick about it.

I just think personally Jacko is pretty much unwatchable as an entertainer nowadays which is a shame as ill always remember him for the clip of him performing Billie Jean at the Motown Anniversary do back in the 80s
artists lose it over 20 years for sure but Jacko peaked a long time ago
im not expecting a return to old glories with his new cd thats all...same thing been happening since the BAD album
what we will get again is over choreographed wank like the last cd whose name escapes me
and without Jacko we wouldnt have NE YO which is a bigger crime in itself than the stuff with the kids in our house
thats Jackos legacy...,..expensive slushy rnb videos 24 hour a day on MTV

im not putting everyone down for their tastes in musics
i appreciate a wide range of genres
just not commercial RnB and Hip Hop
its shallow crap which is an insult to the names it uses as a genre
now i dont want to take EPIII place as the poster who recieves essay length posts in the music thread so a couple more postings and im out

i have to go back to my comment of "product" regarding Jacko which may not have been clear enough
in a genre where the lifestyle and look of the artist is almost as important as the music i find Jackos continued popularity with that crowd a bit of a surprise
i personaly own a lot of cds where i have never seen the artists on tv or would regognize them in print who made the music so i dont buy into the artist as product thing which the rnb crowd do
our current rnb flavoured uk number 1s sucess is not down to the song but the video featuring two divas "ooh dont they look alike" is the cry that rings out above the quality of the track
its a load of bollocks

as is this thread

now im off to prepare to watch a v important football match so ill have to catch up with the thread breakdowns and character assasinations tommorow V.D
Cha Mon!

Moving on...

I'll buy it! And I too can't wait for the video.

I love MJ's music from Off the wal 2 HIStory.
I bought Invincible even when I knew it would suck.
I'm not making the same mistake twice.

As much as I love his music, NO.
I won't buy it.

...it's amazes me that someone who doesn't even like Jackson would spend so much time in a Michael Jackson thread trying to explain why people shouldn't like MJ. I like Michael's music. Most of his best songs came after Thriller such as Bad, Smooth Criminal, Dangerous, Will You Be There, Heal the World, Leave Me Alone, Black or White, You Rock My World, Jam, Man in the Mirror, and so many other wonderful songs.

Really his performances on stage and on his music videos are for the sole purpose of entertainment. Frankly; most music videos are dull and boring. At least MJ gives you a reason to watch his video. And also he gives you a reason to go to a concert since he actually puts on a performance instead of just paying about $100+ just to listen to the same songs you could hear on his CD.

Everything you have stated vintageSW77 is your opinion not fact. Fact is MJ is one of the (if not) best selling artists of all time. Only the Beatles and Elvis has a chance on being equal and/or surpassing sells. There is a reason MJ managed to sell so many records and it wasn't for having an image.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
...it's amazes me that someone who doesn't even like Jackson would spend so much time in a Michael Jackson thread trying to explain why people shouldn't like MJ...

..Everything you have stated vintageSW77 is your opinion not fact. Fact is MJ is one of the (if not) best selling artists of all time.I think he actually likes Michael Jackson...just not anymore.

And of course everything he stated is opinion...there are no facts about this stuff. But I had a hard time disagreeing with a single point in any one of his last 4 posts because they're all pretty much right on...(although I wouldn't say it the way he did).

Just becasue you and others might not be getting it, or are letting your feelings about MJ's music get in the way, doesn't mean his opinion is less valid.

MJ is finished, people who gawk over him are unfortunately cluelesss, and that's the bottom line.

This is another perfect example of people desperately wanting to push the idea that their opinions matter just as much as anyone else's...so that way they aren't "wrong", or there's nothing "wrong" with what they like...

Well, maybe consider the possibility that some people might just know what they're talking about, and others might not...

And I'm not saying this guy knows what he's talking about simply because I agree with him...he's just frankly pointing out what goes on all the time surrounding MJ, his fans, and his music...and not buttering it up which most people do when it comes to MJ.

Think of everything you want to say before you make the post, that way you won't have to keep posting multiple times. Messageboard courtesy, EP.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
He actually likes Michael Jackson...just not anymore.

And of course everything he stated is opinion...there are no facts about this stuff. But I had a hard time disagreeing with a single point in any one of his last 4 posts because they're all pretty much right on.

What, that insane black people treat him like a black god? Get real.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Just becasue you and others might not be getting it, or are letting your feelings about MJ's music get in the way, doesn't meen his opinion is less valid.

Why do you do that? Why do you insist we don't "get" things just because you disagree? Do YOU think you actually "get" everything? You obviously just use that excuse when your arguments get whooped.

His opinion isn't valid, it's biased because he's upset that he isn't making music he likes anymore. HE is the one letting his opinion of Jackson or Jackson's music get in the way of his opinion.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
MJ is finished, people who gawk over him are unfortunately cluelesss, and that's the bottom line.

He's not finished is he? He's clearly still putting out albums. He will be finished when he decides he is finished. YOU thinking he is "done" does not make it so, EP. Put your feelings of him aside, take your own advice.

Then again, you did say Prince and The Rolling Stones were "finished" too, so I'm not too sure how much weight we can place on your arguments.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
This is another perfect example of people desperately wanting to push the idea that their opinions matter just as much as anyone else's...so that way they aren't "wrong".

If it's opinion it's not wrong anyway, so your argument makes no sense.

Someone's opinion doesn't have to "matter", if it's a subjective argument, someone saying "Your opinion doesn't matter to me.", it doesn't mean a thing.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Well, maybe consider the possibility that some people might just know what they're talking about, and others might not...

Like us, and you. We know, you don't. This is proven by the fact that you hold the belief: "I agree with him, there for he's right, I'm right, the rest are clueless and don't get it.". You're best friends with people who might slightly agree with you, or whom you agree with, because nobody else does.

I realise I'm not gonna get a reply because you continually insist I'm baiting you even when I try to have a proper discussion, but whatever.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
And I'm not saying this knows what he's talking about simply because I agree with him...he knows what he' talking about because he simply says what's goes on in front of our very eyes.

I've never seen "insane black people" do that, neither have you. He made a stupid, race-based comment that you are agreeing with because you're changing what he said.

Then you say dumb things like: "Just curious, when you hear the name 'Michael Jackson', do you just automically think...'Michael Jackson'?".

Of course I do, it's the same man. Do I think he has as much acclaim, or can do as well? No. I see what you're saying; People rate him, still, as a man who could produce another Thriller simply because of his name. I do not, and I think that's silly. However, the ability NOT to do that doesn't make him bad.

-AC

Ok. AC's here doing his thing. Guess that means I'm gone.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Well, when someone says something dumb, I assume dumb. I'm not going to sit here and morph his sentence into something less stupid.

I liked this post, was funny.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Ok. AC's here doing his thing. Guess that means I'm gone.

Can't you just reply? Why do you keep insisting I'm attacking you? If you're scared, admit you're scared. If you can't reply, admit it, but don't turn every reply into some crusade to prove I'm bullying you or some shit, it's tired and pathetic.

Put me on ignore, that way, I can reply and you won't have to see it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Can't you just reply? No...because I don't think you're the kind of person who argues to help people understand something you feel could be useful or find important, you argue because you want to be right...and you NEVER admit you're wrong.

And I don't want this turning into another me vs. you thread. I know you won't agree with anything I say, so what's the point...so you can have an avenue to vent and call me dumb and stupid?

No thanks.

To everyone else...

I think it's important for people to stop and think sometimes that maybe their own opinion might not be as valid as someone else's (in certain areas), simply because it happens to be their own and would just like to think it's as valid. But that's not the way things work...sorry.

Sure, you could say I can do the same...and I do all the time. But if I think my opinion might be more valid (in certain areas) I give a billion reasons why...and if you have reasons too then let's hear them. But don't just say "that's just your opinion" which is what A LOT of people here do all the time. That just shows a lack of maturity and disregard I'm afraid.

I don't care how much anyone here loves MJ...he's done...and maybe consider that how you feel about him might not be an adequate reflection of his abilites as an artist.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I think it's important for people to stop and think sometimes that maybe their own opinion might not be as valid as someone else's (in certain areas), simply because it happens to be their own and would just like to think it's as valid. But that's not the way things work...sorry.

What would you propose makes someone's opinion MORE valid? Though still opinion.

F.A.O: Anyone else. Someone else ask him this so he doesn't dodge it.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Sure, you could say I can do the same...and I do all the time. But if I think my opinion might be more valid (in certain areas) I give a billion reasons why...and if you have reasons too then let's hear them. But don't just say "that's just your opinion" which is what A LOT of people here do all the time. That just shows a lack of maturity and disregard.

No, you haven't ever given reasons. Why do you think your opinion is more valid than anyone's here? Because you convince yourself that you can separate opinion from "truth"? I.e; You say you like crap music, even if you like it?

Is that one of them? That doesn't make your opinion more valid.

Regardless, it IS just someone's opinion. Informed, more valid or not, it is just opinion.

What makes SOMEONE'S opinion more valid to you? Not your own, someone else's. What would it take for you to say to someone; "You have a more valid opinion than others."?

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I don't care how much anyone here loves MJ...he's done...and maybe consider that how you feel about him might not be an adequate reflection of his abilites as an artist.

Who cares about what you "care" about? He's not "done" because you say he is, EP. He's not "done" because you think he is and give reasons why. If someone still likes his music enough to buy his albums, if he's still putting out albums, he's not done.

Not knocking out Thriller albums every two years doesn't make him "done".

Abilities as an artist? People who don't even LIKE his music have credited his abilities as a great singer and an expressive performer. Even if that was back in the day, there are people who will still like him.

Stop assuming we're all defending him because we're blind, because it's silly. Anyone you disagree with, you say "You don't get it." or "Consider you might be wrong.". No, you're being ignorant.

-AC

Technically he hired Teddy Riley for Dangerous because he wanted it to have a sound more in common with his roots.

-AC

Like AC said, I hope one day we can have a thread about Michael Jackson's music, one day.

I love Michael Jackson, he is a musical God to me, and what he did for popular music is undeniable.

As for his new album, is there a source that its coming out in nov. 2007. The thing is that I knew there were strong rumors of an album coming out in 2007, but I just didn't think it would really come out in 2007. MJ has always delayed his released, if anything, I was expecting it to come late 08 or early 09.

It is unfortunate that MJ has to collaborate with artists like 50 cent and that black eyed peas dude. To me it seems like he is trying to attract the younger generation of today into his music by collaborating with these artists. I absolutely believe he should not be doing this, but it may well be true that he will end up collaborating with those artists. I just hope all his album isn't filled with tracks with mainstream hip-hop artists, because I believe those are his weakest songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiyT0Jq8JvY

This gives us some insight as to what he's gonna be doing now.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
...it's amazes me that someone who doesn't even like Jackson would spend so much time in a Michael Jackson thread trying to explain why people shouldn't like MJ. I like Michael's music. Most of his best songs came after Thriller such as Bad, Smooth Criminal, Dangerous, Will You Be There, Heal the World, Leave Me Alone, Black or White, You Rock My World, Jam, Man in the Mirror, and so many other wonderful songs.

Really his performances on stage and on his music videos are for the sole purpose of entertainment. Frankly; most music videos are dull and boring. At least MJ gives you a reason to watch his video. And also he gives you a reason to go to a concert since he actually puts on a performance instead of just paying about $100+ just to listen to the same songs you could hear on his CD.

Everything you have stated vintageSW77 is your opinion not fact. Fact is MJ is one of the (if not) best selling artists of all time. Only the Beatles and Elvis has a chance on being equal and/or surpassing sells. There is a reason MJ managed to sell so many records and it wasn't for having an image.


sales dont mean shit to me
theres a lot of bands out there who have struggled for 20 years getting cracking reviews making innovative music who dont sell so much whilst Westlife sell millions and im sure the majority of his sales have been on a steady decline since 84 only upped by another greatest hits package here and there

and dont be too amazed by someone coming back and forth to a thread over a period of two hours...it isnt a big deal
i used to like Jacko a lot
some of his Jackson 5 stuff like say LOOKING THROUGH THE WINDOW are personal faves and OFF THE WALL is one of my top albums of all time
i just dislike nearly everything about Jacko post Thriller from the sachrine make you want to puke MOR tunes and bland pop rNb to his he can do no wrong fan base who follow him blindy like some Paedo Piper

everyones entitled to their own opinion,critisizms and mine and quite a few others is that Heal the World,Man in the mirror etc are cliche ridden pap...the kind of stuff best suited to appearing as background music on those tv shows featuring "brave" people whove overcome the odds against great adversity and the inspiration behind R KELLY and his god awful heart felt uplifting ballads - not a good thing
His last big single - Rock My world was just a non entity of a song..a tune far more memorable for the video..again this time not because of the budget or the obligatory guest star but the fact that Jacko looks like something out of The Mummy Returns only far more frightening
...nothing to do with the music?
well tell that to the kids who watch mtv "24/7"...its all about the image
as a "pop" star Jacko is great..probably the most interesting weve had in our lifetime but the tunes arent there anymore
hed be far better off concentrating on greatest hits tours than bringing out a new album with this week big thing


ive said my bit and im off because AC has again turned another music thread into another "beef" with EPIII
and life is too short to read another thread filled with that

Innovative doesn't mean crap. And it seems that you just don't agree with Alpha so you say he's attacking EPIII even though Alpha has made nothing but amazing points in the argument and neither of you have stated anything other than your opinion so you call it attacking.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
i just dislike nearly everything about Jacko post Thriller I think I might be more of a fan of the other apsects of MJ than you are...'cause as a creative force he certainly had lots to offer until the early 90's.

Thriller is obviously his peak musically, but I think as a dancer/choreographer/entertainer his stuff in the 90s was insane.

I've seen footage of him doing the robot and stuff live in 90s concerts and the guy is literally out of this world. It's like he moves in his own time and space or something.

And that smooth criminal/leaning forward thing he does??? That's MJ's star shining. That IS genius.

Come '00 though and he's making appearnaces onstage with 'NSYNC and stuff...and it's the saddest thing you've ever seen. The guy is a step behind, looking almost drunk and 80. And considering he also hasn't done antything musically significant for about a decade, it's pretty safe to say he's finished.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Innovative doesn't mean crap....Alpha has made nothing but amazing points in the argument... Y'know...maybe he's right. What do we know?

**** the album, he should release another game. That one for the sega mega drive was killer.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
well tell that to the kids who watch mtv "24/7"...its all about the image

Exactly, kids. It's still nothing to do with the music, is it? The way he looks is factually nothing to do with the quality of music he makes. People who judge music on how good or bad the person looks are idiots.

Furthermore, I've not turned this into a beef, I'm replying on topic and he's ignoring me despite that. Sooner or later people are going to realise what he's doing.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Y'know...maybe he's right. What do we know?

What do you mean what do WE know? Stop speaking for everyone other than yourself.

WE know what we know, if you know nothing, and it appears that's the case, then stop speaking. Don't try to drag us down to your level because you feel you're good or something.

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I think I might be more of a fan of the other apsects of MJ than you are...'cause as a creative force he certainly had lots to offer until the early 90's.

Thriller is obviously his peak musically, but I think as a dancer/choreographer/entertainer his stuff in the 90s was insane.

I've seen footage of him doing the robot and stuff live in 90s concerts and the guy is literally out of this world. It's like he moves in his own time and space or something.

And that smooth criminal/leaning forward thing he does??? That's MJ's star shining. That IS genius.

Come '00 though and he's making appearnaces onstage with 'NSYNC and stuff...and it's the saddest thing you've ever seen. The guy is a step behind, looking almost drunk and 80. And considering he also hasn't done antything musically significant for about a decade, it's pretty safe to say he's finished.

A) The lean forward wasn't actually him doing it, it was wirework, but I guess that's what makes him a great performer.

B) It's not safe to say he's anything close to finished. You think he's not good anymore, fine, but he's not finished because you say he is.

-AC

Not on stage. On stage his lean is thanks to special shoes that attach to the stage so his feet remain stationary.

MJ is one of the world's best entertainers. His music is known across the globe, and so is the man himself. Let's just stop bitching about him and enjoy his music. If you don't like his music then why are you even here?

Originally posted by barand1
MJ is one of the world's best entertainers. His music is known across the globe, and so is the man himself. Let's just stop bitching about him and enjoy his music. If you don't like his music then why are you even here?


WAS one of the world's best entertainers. He's a mess now (well, since the late 80's actually). And do you really believe that if someone doesn't like something, they shouldn't say it?

Originally posted by pcp
WAS one of the world's best entertainers. He's a mess now (well, since the late 80's actually). And do you really believe that if someone doesn't like something, they shouldn't say it?

No I'm not saying people shouldn't say what they don't like, but I thought this topic isn't a debate on whether Michael Jackson is/was King of Pop, whether he is a mess or not or whatever.

MJ might look a bit strange (to some), but why should someone be judging someone by the way they look? And let's be real here, most of the bizzar things Michael does is completely false - newspapers etc trying to sell a story basically.

Yes?

Probably, yes.

Originally posted by barand1
MJ might look a bit strange (to some

lets have a head count

jesus

Originally posted by vintageSW77
lets have a head count

jesus

What I meant was that some people say he looks strange, and others say his handsome etc. that's what I was referring to.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
lets have a head count

jesus

I've seen uglier women than Michael Jackson in Manchester, so "strange" is a point of view.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've seen uglier women than Michael Jackson in Manchester, so "strange" is a point of view.

-AC

I think we've all seen them. Take a trip to Plymouth, they're the majority.

A place called Dukinfield has the ugliest chicks - OFFICIAL
Manchester has some hotness as any Manc club nite web site will prove
There are ugly chicks everywhere but ive been around the UK and Manc chicks are not the ugliest

Ok so we went on from Michael Jackson's new album coming out Nov. to his looks? One day...maybe one day KMC can have a Michael Jackson thread that doesn't become about his physical appearence.

Look at the state of him. I don't think his appearance is going to stopped being talked about for a while yet, he wants to look like his sister for christ's sake.

Image is everything in pop
hes the king of pop so............

He looks fine here.

but not so fine here -

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x204/cylob45/72400514---michael_jackson.jpg
He looks like he came from the darkest nightmares of Chris Cunningham

You'd think with his money, he'd at least get decent plastic surgery. His was probably done with recycled tesco's bags.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
Image is everything in pop
hes the king of pop so............

He became the king of pop by making great pop music that transcended his image because he has talent. Image is everything if you're a corporate puppet.

-AC

Along with sparkly gloves on one hand, moonwalking, a lot of other dance moves, oxygen tents and monkeys. He once did make great pop music, but since it's been court case after court case, and nose job after nose job, after nose job. He's no longer seen as the king of pop but rather king of the tabloids.

I don't see him as anything besides Michael Jackson.

What he does in his personal life isn't my business.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I don't see him as anything besides Michael Jackson.

What he does in his personal life isn't my business.

-AC

I know, and neither should it be anyone's. The point is though that his business has become public knowledge, so he is now known more for his escapades than he is for his music. Which isn't how it should be, but like it or not, it's how it is. Pete Doherty's career is basically the same. They're both musicians in journalist's short hand, but the latest personal development is of more interest to them, and the public.

Although if Pete Doherty was a 'normal' guy with a blue car, the fact that the car was blue would be enough to overshadow his music.

All I hope for is for Michael to release this new album, for the album to be a hit and for him to promote it. Pop music today isn't the same without Michael, really. I mean doesn't it all sound very much the same?

Maybe it'll sound more like his Thriller/Bad albums and not so much as his HIStory album. I like some of his songs on HIStory but most of them are alright. 2 Bad has to be my favorite from that one.

I have a fear that his new album will be a lot like the pop album out nowadays, kind of even like Invincible. Just above average pop beats/songs with a rap solo( hip hop) influence, thats not what I want.

Originally posted by alic88
I have a fear that his new album will be a lot like the pop album out nowadays, kind of even like Invincible. Just above average pop beats/songs with a rap solo( hip hop) influence, thats not what I want.

I don't want that either. I don't think a lot of creative effort went into Invincible to be honest. It's certainly Jackson's weakest out of his catalog. I would like to hear some of the rocker songs, like Beat It, Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana and Give Into Me. I think Michael should go down the same route Madonna went with the club songs, because Michael can do great, catchy songs that people can dance to. Obviously don't copy Madonna exactly, Michael can make it his own. Bring on the rocker songs and the catchy dance ones (like his Off The Wall stuff) and make it a damn good hit.

Invincible didn't stand out from the market when it was released, so I hope this one does. And by the sounds of it a tour to promote the album seems on the cards. So here's to fingers being crossed.

you just know it is going to go down the Justin route
oh so clever beats,odd arrangments and QUE THE RAPPER after the second chorus
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz .....cha mon!

Why do you even care? You don't even like him anymore, you're some racist fool.

I want him to do it how he wants to do it, and if I don't like it so be it.

He doesn't owe me anything.

-AC

hey so now im a "daft" rascist because i dont like a black man who wants to be white or black when it suits
ok whatever AC
i must thank you for your contributions to KMC and curing my insomnia though
read a couple of your epics and im out like Jordy Chandler at a sleepover at MJs after a hit of the "jesus juice"

Originally posted by barand1
I don't want that either. I don't think a lot of creative effort went into Invincible to be honest. It's certainly Jackson's weakest out of his catalog. I would like to hear some of the rocker songs, like Beat It, Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana and Give Into Me. I think Michael should go down the same route Madonna went with the club songs, because Michael can do great, catchy songs that people can dance to. Obviously don't copy Madonna exactly, Michael can make it his own. Bring on the rocker songs and the catchy dance ones (like his Off The Wall stuff) and make it a damn good hit.

Invincible didn't stand out from the market when it was released, so I hope this one does. And by the sounds of it a tour to promote the album seems on the cards. So here's to fingers being crossed.

His last best album was Dangerous. HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor and Invincible were decent...but nothing special. At least he still has Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad, and Dangerous.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
His last best album was Dangerous. HIStory and Blood on the Dance Floor and Invincible were decent...but nothing special. At least he still has Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad, and Dangerous.

Yeah I agree, although there are some pretty decent songs on HIStory. I think by the time that album was released and Blood on the Dance Floor, things became a bit lazy, less organic and fresh, which the early MJ stuff was all about.

Yeah I have a bunch of songs I like from HIStory, Blood on the Dance Floor, and Invincible but Dangerous and down proved to be a lot better.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
hey so now im a "daft" rascist because i dont like a black man who wants to be white or black when it suits
ok whatever AC
i must thank you for your contributions to KMC and curing my insomnia though
read a couple of your epics and im out like Jordy Chandler at a sleepover at MJs after a hit of the "jesus juice"

Where, in human history, has he expressed a desire to be "white"?

-AC

the bleaching of the skin and the ridding of almost all his afro features
hes the extreme case of the majority of black pop celebs who nowadays try their hardest to lighten themselves up in photos and vids to try and look less "ethnic" whilst contradictory saying it loud about being black and proud

Originally posted by vintageSW77
the bleaching of the skin and the ridding of almost all his afro features
hes the extreme case of the majority of black pop celebs who nowadays try their hardest to lighten themselves up in photos and vids to try and look less "ethnic" whilst contradictory saying it loud about being black and proud

I shall ask again;

Where, in human history, has he expressed a desire to be "white"?

Not; "Where are the reasons for you to believe he wants to be.".

Where has he actually expressed he wants to? As per; "i dont like a black man who wants to be white or black when it suits.".

-AC

Originally posted by vintageSW77
the bleaching of the skin and the ridding of almost all his afro features
hes the extreme case of the majority of black pop celebs who nowadays try their hardest to lighten themselves up in photos and vids to try and look less "ethnic" whilst contradictory saying it loud about being black and proud

He never bleached his skin. There are parts in this video where you can see Michael's skin disease; vitiligo in his right arm, watch closely.

jaZzZactGQU

Here's also a picture
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b4/Michael_Jackson_February_7th_1984.jpg
Notice his forehead is far lighter then the rest of his face.

thats camera lighting reflected on a shiny forehead and make up elsewhere to lighten his skin - as seen in 99% photos and videos of pop black female entertainers
if you dont think that spending 15 or so years bleaching ones skin or having a skinpeel,having a nose job,lips thinned and hair straightened shows a desire to be white and rid oneself of your ethnicity then decide to get back to your blackness and RnB roots just because thats what the sheep are buying nowadays there is no point continuing with this

Not going to answer my question?

There are more sheep buying into the idea that he's some wannabe white-man child molester than anything else. One isn't proveable, the other is more or less false.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not going to answer my question?

There are more sheep buying into the idea that he's some wannabe white-man child molester than anything else. One isn't proveable, the other is more or less false.

-AC


Im not so sure about the child molesting charges but im deffo that back in the late 80s Jacko decided to rid himself of his black features for whatever reasons i dont know
also i never claimed hes ever stated he wants to be white as it would be another nail in the coffin of his musical career but the evidence is there for everyone to see

8 posts on a past his best,bankrupt,plastic surgery obsessed head case is enough for me

out

That'll learn you.

-AC

Originally posted by vintageSW77
Im not so sure about the child molesting charges but im deffo that back in the late 80s Jacko decided to rid himself of his black features for whatever reasons i dont know
also i never claimed hes ever stated he wants to be white as it would be another nail in the coffin of his musical career but the evidence is there for everyone to see

8 posts on a past his best,bankrupt,plastic surgery obsessed head case is enough for me

out

Expect that Dr. Arnold Klein and his nurse both comfirmed that Jackson had the skin disease vitiligo. So who's word am I going to take? Someone who just likes to hear himself talk or a doctor? Decisions, decisions.

its bullshit
they were both paid to play along



people sure are blind when it comes to Jacko

I wouldn't trust anything that any newspaper or news programme ever tells you, ever.

Originally posted by vintageSW77
its bullshit
they were both paid to play along



people sure are blind when it comes to Jacko

As if you know more than the American courts who deemed him innocent.

Idiot.

-AC

Well, being found innocent on eleven counts was a little strange. Plus throw in MJ's previous experience with bribery, and eyewitness accounts from the security guard, testimonies from children and their parents. It is a bit strange.

People have got to realise that there are people who were out to bring Michael down, and they have done a good job at taken his King of Pop crown away from him.

Michael has become a target of out of control bullying if you like, and this is due to the fact that he is an easy target. A target because he is so kind and friendly.

Originally posted by barand1
People have got to realise that there are people who were out to bring Michael down, and they have done a good job at taken his King of Pop crown away from him.

Michael has become a target of out of control bullying if you like, and this is due to the fact that he is an easy target. A target because he is so kind and friendly.

Kind and friendly? An adult who has confessed to having sleepovers, with children. Whether done out of the kindness of his heart or not, it's an adult man, having children stay over at his house for 'friendship'. While when it comes to his own child, who he hangs over the edge of a balcony without a second thought, he seems to not want to know about. Apart from of course wanting to cover the child in masks.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Well, being found innocent on eleven counts was a little strange. Plus throw in MJ's previous experience with bribery, and eyewitness accounts from the security guard, testimonies from children and their parents. It is a bit strange.

Nowhere near as strange or perverse as other people seeming DISAPPOINTED that he wasn't actually convicted of paedophilia, and looking into his personal life where they have absolutely no business.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Kind and friendly? An adult who has confessed to having sleepovers, with children. Whether done out of the kindness of his heart or not, it's an adult man, having children stay over at his house for 'friendship'. While when it comes to his own child, who he hangs over the edge of a balcony without a second thought, he seems to not want to know about. Apart from of course wanting to cover the child in masks.

So what? What does that have to do with anything?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As if you know more than the American courts who deemed him innocent.

Idiot.

-AC

You have faith in the American legal system?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nowhere near as strange or perverse as other people seeming DISAPPOINTED that he wasn't actually convicted of paedophilia, and looking into his personal life where they have absolutely no business.

I'm sorry I fail to see how people seeming disappointed, in arguing against what they feel to be a miscarriage of justice, is strange. It's the nature of celebrity, when a figure who's known globally is accused of pedophilia; there's going to be scrutiny of his personal life. This was eleven counts of pedophilia, with strong evidence for each one, people are going to ask questions. Whether he's guilty or not he's a celebrity and he's lived in limelight in the public eye for a long time. Now that the tables have turned and there's an element of controversy, which connotates his name; people aren't just going to stop paying attention.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

So what? What does that have to do with anything?

-AC

It has to do with his seemingly tainted mental state.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
This was eleven counts of pedophilia, with strong evidence for each one, people are going to ask questions.

Strong evidence? I don't think so.

Originally posted by barand1
Strong evidence? I don't think so.

It was strong enough for a case. Whether he did it or not, I don't know and I won't put my opinion on it.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I'm sorry I fail to see how people seeming disappointed, in arguing against what they feel to be a miscarriage of justice, is strange. It's the nature of celebrity, when a figure who's known globally is accused of pedophilia; there's going to be scrutiny of his personal life. This was eleven counts of pedophilia, with strong evidence for each one, people are going to ask questions. Whether he's guilty or not he's a celebrity and he's lived in limelight in the public eye for a long time. Now that the tables have turned and there's an element of controversy, which connotates his name; people aren't just going to stop paying attention.

That's exactly my point. People wanted him to be convicted of touching a child. You'd think they'd be pleased that he seemingly didn't do it.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
It has to do with his seemingly tainted mental state.

What does that have to do with anything?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's exactly my point. People wanted him to be convicted of touching a child. You'd think they'd be pleased that he seemingly didn't do it.

The point is that people wanted him to be convicted of touching a child, because they feel he did it. People wanted O.J Simpson convicted, should they be happy that he 'seemingly' didn't do it?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

What does that have to do with anything?

-AC

That was a different point, as a point was raised about his 'kindly' character by a different member.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
It was strong enough for a case. Whether he did it or not, I don't know and I won't put my opinion on it.

Which ended with all charges dropped. 10 of the 12 found him innocent.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Which ended with all charges dropped. 10 of the 12 found him innocent.

Where did I ever dispute that he was found innocent? I'm not arguing that he's guilty, I'm saying people have a right and a cause to question the verdict. I've provided larger arguments than the two sentences you chose to use.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
The point is that people wanted him to be convicted of touching a child, because they feel he did it. People wanted O.J Simpson convicted, should they be happy that he 'seemingly' didn't do it?

I would say so, yes. All evidence, or most of it, points to the suggestion he didn't do it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I would say so, yes. All evidence, or most of it, points to the suggestion he didn't do it.

-AC

I don't think all of the evidence does, some does, yes.
I believe there is enough evidence for an opinion other than the one, that he was definitely innocent. To say that he was definitely guilty however, would be completely unacceptable and slanderous.

It just goes on and on and on and on and...

Originally posted by barand1
It just goes on and on and on and on and...

Well yeah it does, and unfortunately for Michael I think this will probably taint the rest of his career.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I don't think all of the evidence does, some does, yes.
I believe there is enough evidence for an opinion other than the one, that he was definitely innocent. To say that he was definitely guilty however, would be completely unacceptable and slanderous.

Well newsflash; when general public idiots are calling him a paedophile JUST for having kids over, that isn't the kind of label anybody can really remove.

He'll always be known for this even if he's never touched a kid in his life, and for what? Cos of idiots who can't keep their noses out.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well newsflash; when general public idiots are calling him a paedophile JUST for having kids over, that isn't the kind of label anybody can really remove.

He'll always be known for this even if he's never touched a kid in his life, and for what? Cos of idiots who can't keep their noses out.

-AC

Well they're not calling him a pedophile just for having kids over are they? Couple that with the allegations made against him and you've got a reason.

No, I doubt he will ever be able to remove that label, not to those who definitely believe it anyway. It isn't because of idiots who can't keep their noses out though, it's because of the way he acted in Martin Bashir documentary and his other rumoured, and documented antics.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Well they're not calling him a pedophile just for having kids over are they? Couple that with the allegations made against him and you've got a reason.

No, I doubt he will ever be able to remove that label, not to those who definitely believe it anyway. It isn't because of idiots who can't keep their noses out though, it's because of the way he acted in Martin Bashir documentary and his other rumoured, and documented antics.

That Bashir documentary was bullshit and everyone knows it. It was entirely unfair and biasedly conducted.

Look, his attitude towards kids in general and what we know he has done with them (Sleepovers.) is, if you wanna call it anything. odd at WORST. You do not know what those parents told those kids, what those kids told the parents. All we know is he got accused of shit that really, people are only assuming is true because has has other odd characteristics, and that is just not right.

So the man likes kids, so what? Although I hate the song, I have to quote it:

"Thou shalt not assume that any man over the age of 30, that plays with a child who is not his own, is a paedophile. Some people are just nice.".

I do not believe he is a paedophile, for one second. Not because of who he is, but because I just don't see enough to make that assumption.

You and others talk about his "bribes". He has money to burn and he KNOWS that people will keep dragging it out and call him guilty ANYWAY, like certain folks are doing here. So if it spared him a year of legal battles that people will just ignore ANYWAY, why not pay an out of court settlement? Furthermore, if he molested your kid, how much would it cost to shut you up? I personally would want to see the man locked away, there would be no price, unless...of course, I was out for money anyway.

-AC

0rXlOVZF4Jc

Yeah!!!!

Thx 4 that vid man

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That Bashir documentary was bullshit and everyone knows it. It was entirely unfair and biasedly conducted.

-AC

The Bashir documentary may have been cut biasedly, however Jackson still said those things and still acted that way at some point, that's undeniable. Jackson agreed to have the documentary on him, he made his bed in a way.

His attitude towards kids is odd yes, it's not his attitude that's the worrying thing though. He's got his own child and his attitude towards him appears entirely different than other children.

What you believe is irrelevant in the fact that people have a right to question his innocence, just as you have a right to proclaim his innocence.

The point of the bribes is that in the eyes of the people it suggests that he has something to hide, other than damaging his reputation.It is bizarre that the parents accepted the money yes, though money does talk. What about those that did not accept out of court settlements and took it all the way to court?

I am approaching this from an entirely objective angle and do not have any opinion on it. I'll also admit you've made some very good points.

P.S:- yeah that song's shit.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
The Bashir documentary may have been cut biasedly, however Jackson still said those things and still acted that way at some point, that's undeniable. Jackson agreed to have the documentary on him, he made his bed in a way.

Only a fool would suggest he's done nothing to perhaps make his situation a bit more awkward for himself, but I don't believe that necessarily means anything.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
His attitude towards kids is odd yes, it's not his attitude that's the worrying thing though. He's got his own child and his attitude towards him appears entirely different than other children.

That's nobody's business.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
What you believe is irrelevant in the fact that people have a right to question his innocence, just as you have a right to proclaim his innocence.

Yeah, but people go beyond "I think he did it.". It somehow becomes their business, their right, their right to know etc. It's ridiculous.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
The point of the bribes is that in the eyes of the people it suggests that he has something to hide, other than damaging his reputation.It is bizarre that the parents accepted the money yes, though money does talk. What about those that did not accept out of court settlements and took it all the way to court?

So what? Those kind of people will always think he did it, so in his position, what has he got to lose? He goes to court, wins, they say "He still did it.". He pays someone off to avoid court time, THEY mysteriously vanish, "He still did it!".

As for your last question, what about those people? They lost. Jackson was acquitted. It's still not enough for some people. It's like conspiracy theorists; nothing is ever as it seems, everything is a lie etc. It's just dumb when you accept nothing.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I am approaching this from an entirely objective angle and do not have any opinion on it. I'll also admit you've made some very good points.

P.S:- yeah that song's shit.

Fair enough.

-AC

As we're not talking about Michael's music here is some off topic news

http://blackvoices.aol.com/blogs/2007/06/04/michael-jackson-white-mans-burden/

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As if you know more than the American courts who deemed him innocent.

Idiot.

-AC

im talking about the plastic surgery


arse

For someone who doesn't care, you show up here a lot.

-AC

It's fun here