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Seriously?

It seems like months ago, the matches were repeating themselves in one way or another. It's become pretty stale in there. New blood is needed.

If someone wants to do Solid Snake vs Jason Voorhees or Darth Vader vs Dark Schneider, why should they be limited to who and what they can match up?


I can understand the DBZ ban, but not all audiences of all characters are that irrational. Hell, there are some rational DBZ fans out there too.

So why the limitations? Is it a moderation issue? IE not enough moderators to properly keep tabs on forum dwellers?

IMO more character choices means learning about different characters and adding to the fun of our useless knowledge.

I'm sure there are a ton of you who have characters matchups you would LOVE to post but don't because of current rules.

Agree/Disagree?

Discuss.

I have something to tell you all . . . I'm . . . wait you didn't mean that kind of open.



As for the actual point. srug Games already have a place for thier stuff. Anime is almost impossible to debate with because characters rapidly increase thier power.

I say no. It's WAY too hard to debate cross genres in most cases.

No more difficult then debating people like Doctor Manhatten, Omni-Man, Samaritan, Peter Stanchek, Man of Atom, The Tick, etc etc etc vs. people like Superman and Cap.

I think it needs to be a little stricter. There are so many people who are there just out of spite and purposely ignore evidence/facts/feats

Originally posted by Soljer
I say no. It's WAY too hard to debate cross genres in most cases.

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
No more difficult then debating people like Doctor Manhatten, Omni-Man, Samaritan, Peter Stanchek, Man of Atom, The Tick, etc etc etc vs. people like Superman and Cap.

I agree with this.

To answer another comment.

Power levels in comics are just as chaotic...we simply reason them here in the vs forums.

I don't think it would be any different for other characters in different mediums. A story is a story and stats are stats.

I personally would love for Street fighter to be added. I read and love street fight comcis.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Power levels in comics are just as chaotic...we simply reason them here in the vs forums.

I don't think it would be any different for other characters in different mediums. A story is a story and stats are stats.

OK but look at something like bleach. In the course of 2 episodes Ichigo's power goes from the point where he doesn't have enough energy to stand up when Kenpachi is near him and his sword bounces off the guy's skin to the point where he can slice through Kenpachi like butter.

Personally, I have thought up a gazillion or two matches I'd like to see/debate over, cross-gen wise. Honestly, it would be awesome.

I would worry about things like anime and the such, however, as it's really not my area of interest. And, we would tend to get more fanboys I presume, which is the last thing we would need.

I think expierienced members should be allowed to set up a few matches... but not in excess. As plausible as that is.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
OK but look at something like bleach. In the course of 2 episodes Ichigo's power goes from the point where he doesn't have enough energy to stand up when Kenpachi is near him and his sword bounces off the guy's skin to the point where he can slice through Kenpachi like butter.

Btw, rewatch that episode and take a look at the climax. Ichigo is maxing an upwards swing when they clash. At the end his zanpakutou is stuck in kenpachi's shoulder, like he had been cutting downwards.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Personally, I have thought up a gazillion or two matches I'd like to see/debate over, cross-gen wise. Honestly, it would be awesome.

I would worry about things like anime and the such, however, as it's really not my area of interest. And, we would tend to get more fanboys I presume, which is the last thing we would need.

I think expierienced members should be allowed to set up a few matches... but not in excess. As plausible as that is.

Which is totally implausible. Where is the line? What defines 'experienced?' How many is okay? How many is not? What do we allow, what do we disallow? Etc.?

Certain genres and characters are okay when compared to comic book characters. Many others, are not.

Jason, for example. He's supposedly unkillable, but how do we know for sure? I mean, there have been many CONVENTIONAL methods tried...but who is to say he'd live after being diced up by Wolverine? Or atomized by the Silver Surfer?

But, then again, all HIS 'feats' direct towards the idea that he is utterly unkillable.

Far too many characters (from a variety of genres) live in a 'real world' analogue or a drastically changed 'fantasy world' rather than a comic book world. Making their feats more or less impressive by a certain magnitude and making them VERY hard to compare to comic book characters.

Originally posted by Soljer
Which is totally implausible. Where is the line? What defines 'experienced?' How many is okay? How many is not? What do we allow, what do we disallow? Etc.?

Certain genres and characters are okay when compared to comic book characters. Many others, are not.

Jason, for example. He's supposedly unkillable, but how do we know for sure? I mean, there have been many CONVENTIONAL methods tried...but who is to say he'd live after being diced up by Wolverine? Or atomized by the Silver Surfer?

But, then again, all HIS 'feats' direct towards the idea that he is utterly unkillable.

Far too many characters (from a variety of genres) live in a 'real world' analogue or a drastically changed 'fantasy world' rather than a comic book world. Making their feats more or less impressive by a certain magnitude and making them VERY hard to compare to comic book characters.

I don't see Jason as being all that different from Solomon Grundy. Jason is very killable... he just comes back to life at some point. Plenty of Comic book characters are like that.

Comic book worlds are just as warped as any other media worlds.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I don't see Jason as being all that different from Solomon Grundy. Jason is very killable... he just comes back to life at some point. Plenty of Comic book characters are like that.

Comic book worlds are just as warped as any other media worlds.

Just as warped? Sure. Warped in the same ways? Absolutely not.

Not to mention the fact, many medias world aren't warped in the LEAST - they are supposed to be real-world in every sense. Perhaps, save for the sole superhuman protagonist. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Which is totally implausible. Where is the line? What defines 'experienced?' How many is okay? How many is not? What do we allow, what do we disallow? Etc.?

Certain genres and characters are okay when compared to comic book characters. Many others, are not.

Jason, for example. He's supposedly unkillable, but how do we know for sure? I mean, there have been many CONVENTIONAL methods tried...but who is to say he'd live after being diced up by Wolverine? Or atomized by the Silver Surfer?

But, then again, all HIS 'feats' direct towards the idea that he is utterly unkillable.

Far too many characters (from a variety of genres) live in a 'real world' analogue or a drastically changed 'fantasy world' rather than a comic book world. Making their feats more or less impressive by a certain magnitude and making them VERY hard to compare to comic book characters. The last sentence of my post was sarcasm. I realize the pain that it would be... though I wouldn't exaggerate it to the level that you are.

We do this kind of stuff all the time in the forum as it is. Trying to relate mages in the DCU versus mages in the MU, trying to do the same with telepaths, and comparing various overpowering forces such as the Power Cosmic vs. the Astro Force. After all, how do you compare those two?

It's not as if we're totally incapable of accounting for differences in medium and environment, and equating that to differences in feat value.

Hell, that description practically describes Wolverine right there. Or Jason could simply be BFR'd, transmuted, etc.

We can manage.

1. If we let 1 thing in, we lets dozens of franchises in. Do we really want that kind of increase in thread-count on an already-busy forum?

2. Cross-genre battles are notoriously hard to discuss

3. Beyond that, they devolve quickly based on whose fans are present. The few times I've experimented with letting SW, DBZ, etc. threads run their course has confirmed this. It gets reported by about page 3 (or sooner) and devolves into bashing and ludicrous claims.

4. Pretty much every other mod who has any experience with vs. forums will say the exact same things, because they've encountered it too.

When you become mod, you try it and see how you like it. So no offense taken by this thread, but it's never happening. The comic forums deal with enough sh*t as it is.

Originally posted by Soljer
Just as warped? Sure. Warped in the same ways? Absolutely not.

Not to mention the fact, many medias world aren't warped in the LEAST - they are supposed to be real-world in every sense. Perhaps, save for the sole superhuman protagonist. .

That would be called a mismatch.

You wouldn't put Ivan Drago vs the Hulk any more than you would put Robin vs the Sentry.

However, Drago vs say... a street leveler would be perfectly debatable.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

When you become mod, you try it and see how you like it. Deal.

So when do I get promoted?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
The last sentence of my post was sarcasm. I realize the pain that it would be... though I wouldn't exaggerate it to the level that you are.

We do this kind of stuff all the time in the forum as it is. Trying to relate mages in the DCU versus mages in the MU, trying to do the same with telepaths, and comparing various overpowering forces such as the Power Cosmic vs. the Astro Force. After all, how do you compare those two?

It's not as if we're totally incapable of accounting for differences in medium and environment, and equating that to differences in feat value.

Hell, that description practically describes Wolverine right there. Or Jason could simply be BFR'd, transmuted, etc.

We can manage.

I know it was sarcasm, I was just continuing the vein of thought.


Meh. I agree with you that most (myself included) have probably thought of a dozen or more good fights that would involve different media. It's just a very slippery slope, and it's hard to say where the line needs to be drawn.

I agree that it should be opened up.

It is getting quite stale.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
1. If we let 1 thing in, we lets dozens of franchises in. Do we really want that kind of increase in thread-count on an already-busy forum?

2. Cross-genre battles are notoriously hard to discuss

3. Beyond that, they devolve quickly based on whose fans are present. The few times I've experimented with letting SW, DBZ, etc. threads run their course has confirmed this. It gets reported by about page 3 (or sooner) and devolves into bashing and ludicrous claims.

4. Pretty much every other mod who has any experience with vs. forums will say the exact same things, because they've encountered it too.

When you become mod, you try it and see how you like it. So no offense taken by this thread, but it's never happening. The comic forums deal with enough sh*t as it is.

quick question... seeing as the buffyverse has its own comics, can we use characters that had appeared in the tv shows, but not the comics, in fights, using their performances against the comic present heroes as basis for comparison?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Deal.

So when does SC get promoted?

Thanks Smurf!

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
That would be called a mismatch.

You wouldn't put Ivan Drago vs the Hulk any more than you would put Robin vs the Sentry.

However, Drago vs say... a street leveler would be perfectly debatable.

Which street leveller?

Robin could take out Drago, he takes out people like Drago by the dozens every day. Most street levellers do. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Which street leveller?

Robin could take out Drago, he takes out people like Drago by the dozens every day. Most street levellers do. . Hypocritical, much? haermm

Originally posted by pr1983
quick question... seeing as the buffyverse has its own comics, can we use characters that had appeared in the tv shows, but not the comics, in fights, using their performances against the comic present heroes as basis for comparison?

Damn near every 'verse' has their own comics. We, traditionally, don't allow any media that is not PRIMARILY known for their comics.

Star Wars has comics, Matrix has comics, Buffy has comics, KISS has comics, Care Bears have comics.

And so on, and so forth.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Hypocritical, much? haermm

No, I'm just talking about the discrepancy between the world's. Robin's is incomparable to Ivan's.

Originally posted by pr1983
quick question... seeing as the buffyverse has its own comics, can we use characters that had appeared in the tv shows, but not the comics, in fights, using their performances against the comic present heroes as basis for comparison?

Using characters from one universe but only feats from another version of them doesn't really make much sense.

Originally posted by Soljer
No, I'm just talking about the discrepancy between the world's. Robin's is incomparable to Ivan's. It's comparable.

Hell... it's the same thing like setting up Captain America vs. Robin...

Originally posted by Soljer
Damn near every 'verse' has their own comics. We, traditionally, don't allow any media that is not PRIMARILY known for their comics.

Star Wars has comics, Matrix has comics, Buffy has comics, KISS has comics, Care Bears have comics.

And so on, and so forth.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Using characters from one universe but only feats from another version of them doesn't really make much sense.

rain on my parade why don't you... and it was such a nice parade too...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
1. If we let 1 thing in, we lets dozens of franchises in. Do we really want that kind of increase in thread-count on an already-busy forum?

That's the whole idea of this topic? Do the masses want it? Are they totally against it? Somewhere in between?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
2. Cross-genre battles are notoriously hard to discuss

Are you speaking for everyone when you say this or is this your personal opinion?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
3. Beyond that, they devolve quickly based on whose fans are present. The few times I've experimented with letting SW, DBZ, etc. threads run their course has confirmed this. It gets reported by about page 3 (or sooner) and devolves into bashing and ludicrous claims.

They do this on standard vs forums...sometimes for pages unchecked and the members sometimes last months running rampant.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
4. Pretty much every other mod who has any experience with vs. forums will say the exact same things, because they've encountered it too.

Then maybe more mods are needed. I'm pretty sure there are qualified people here who would accept the responsibility.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
When you become mod, you try it and see how you like it. So no offense taken by this thread, but it's never happening. The comic forums deal with enough sh*t as it is.

Are you offering me a mod position?

And there shouldn't be offense taken to this thread..that is unless ideas and discussion about them are now somehow against the rules.

I think we all agree about one thing. The vs. forum is a little stale lately. Hopefully, Goober's tournament will help re-energize things.

I certainly agree that there have been several instances where I'd have liked a topic to stay open, or would have liked to make a topic of my own with other media.

But, it really would be just such a MAJOR hassle. There'd be massive amounts of spite threads/spam threads/fanboy threads/flame wars/etc.

Much MUCH moreso than there currently are.

Originally posted by pr1983
quick question... seeing as the buffyverse has its own comics, can we use characters that had appeared in the tv shows, but not the comics, in fights, using their performances against the comic present heroes as basis for comparison?

The standing rule is that it has to have originated in a comic or be "primarily comics". Buffy is more known for TV, so it wouldn't qualify. Because everyone and their brother has a comic or two....if we used that rule, we'd be inundated with non-comic stuff.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
And there shouldn't be offense taken to this thread..that is unless ideas and discussion about them are now somehow against the rules.

Huh? I said there wasn't. This isn't the first time it's come up, and it's a legit opinion....just not one that will ever happen because the forum is already the busiest on KMC, and draws a lot of attention (i.e. trouble) that would grow exponentially if we started allowing non-comic stuff.

I think most of the problems would be at least subdues if we implemented a little selectivity in allowing other media to be used.

Things like DBZ could be disallowed, whether at first or permanently.

Things like Star Wars, Matrix, and most video games could be used.

Ideally.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I think we all agree about one thing. The vs. forum is a little stale lately.

Everyone thinks that as soon as they start posting less or involving themselves with tourneys and such....it's a natural progression for pretty much everyone on KMC.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The standing rule is that it has to have originated in a comic or be "primarily comics". Buffy is more known for TV, so it wouldn't qualify. Because everyone and their brother has a comic or two....if we used that rule, we'd be inundated with non-comic stuff.

i thought that...

man, makes me wish we had a buffy forum just for such stuff... few years too late i guess...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Huh? I said there wasn't. This isn't the first time it's come up, and it's a legit opinion....just not one that will ever happen because the forum is already the busiest on KMC, and draws a lot of attention (i.e. trouble) that would grow exponentially if we started allowing non-comic stuff.

I agreed with you that no offense should be taken. Perhaps I should have worded that differently.

Even though we may not share opinion on this, I'm glad you came by and gave you .2.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Seriously?

It seems like months ago, the matches were repeating themselves in one way or another. It's become pretty stale in there. New blood is needed.

If someone wants to do Solid Snake vs Jason Voorhees or Darth Vader vs Dark Schneider, why should they be limited to who and what they can match up?


I can understand the DBZ ban, but not all audiences of all characters are that irrational. Hell, there are some rational DBZ fans out there too.

So why the limitations? Is it a moderation issue? IE not enough moderators to properly keep tabs on forum dwellers?

IMO more character choices means learning about different characters and adding to the fun of our useless knowledge.

I'm sure there are a ton of you who have characters matchups you would LOVE to post but don't because of current rules.

Agree/Disagree?

Discuss. I have to disagree. Digi posted the reasons why we can't use Star Wars, Anime, ect. characters versus comic characters many times. It will lead to chaos.


badabing

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I think most of the problems would be at least subdues if we implemented a little selectivity in allowing other media to be used.

Things like DBZ could be disallowed, whether at first or permanently.

Things like Star Wars, Matrix, and most video games could be used.

Ideally.

Star Wars? Video Games?

I'd say no. You'd get way too many people that've only seen the movies compared with people that've read the novels.

I haven't read them myself, but I've heard things about Luke in the novel being damn near a cosmic god. Compared to Luke in ROTJ, who seemed quite slow and very weak. .

Then, with video games, you get things like Halo. People that've only played the game don't know that Master Chief can run at XXX mph, or lift XXX tons, or dodge bullets, or take on an entire army singlehandedly, because they've only played the games. Whereas, in some of the Halo threads that DID get through, I've heard of the Master Chief pulling off some INSANE stuff that he'd NEVER be capable of, in game.

Imagine the way many people only have the most BASIC knowledge of either Marvel or DC, and then extend that to many times the people for many times the companies. It'd be a cluster ****.

And if things become stale guys....take a break or try something new. It's a "comic" forum. It can't be expected to morph to our whim.

If all I used was the vs. forum, I'd hate KMC. But there's probably 3-4 other forums I post more on (sans modding duties). Find what interests you in the vs. forum, and accept that you have to find other avenues to discuss other hobbies/interests.

It can really become a good thing, since everyone eventually comes to the conclusion that you'll never "succeed" in the vs. forum. It becomes akin to punching a brick wall....you might get through someday, but do you really want to?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
And if things become stale guys....take a break or try something new. It's a "comic" forum. It can't be expected to morph to our whim.

If all I used was the vs. forum, I'd hate KMC. But there's probably 3-4 other forums I post more on (sans modding duties). Find what interests you in the vs. forum, and accept that you have to find other avenues to discuss other hobbies/interests.

It can really become a good thing, since everyone eventually comes to the conclusion that you'll never "succeed" in the vs. forum. It becomes akin to punching a brick wall....you might get through someday, but do you really want to?

I expect it to morph to my whim and it shall...it's the only forum I visit on KMC.

Originally posted by Soljer
Luke in ROTJ, who seemed quite slow and very weak. .

take that back... slow? he was fast enough given he was barely padawan level, and he beat vader...

Originally posted by pr1983
take that back... slow? he was fast enough given he was barely padawan level, and he beat vader...

Vader was also quite slow in the original trilogy, as a matter of necessity because of the technology and lightsabre's they used.

Originally posted by Soljer
Vader was also quite slow in the original trilogy, as a matter of necessity because of the technology and lightsabre's they used.

true, but in rotj, luke was quick enough to hold his own against vader's superior skill, even if he was slower...

luke in the books is ridiculously powerful, but i think rotj luke (who imo would be the best one to use) would get his fair share in a vs debate, especially against street level characters...

Originally posted by pr1983
true, but in rotj, luke was quick enough to hold his own against vader's superior skill, even if he was slower...

luke in the books is ridiculously powerful, but i think rotj luke (who imo would be the best one to use) would get his fair share in a vs debate, especially against street level characters...

But that's exactly the problem I was specifying. Some people only know movie Luke - who was slow, and couldn't lift an x-wing.

Some people know the novel luke, who can move faster than even amped sith can track, and can move planets with Telekinesis.

Or something like that.

Originally posted by Soljer
But that's exactly the problem I was specifying. Some people only know movie Luke - who was slow, and couldn't lift an x-wing.

Some people know the novel luke, who can move faster than even amped sith can track, and can move planets with Telekinesis.

Or something like that.

but for me, movie luke=actual luke, novel luke isn't canon, so imo really shouldnt be allowed...

Originally posted by Soljer
Star Wars? Video Games?

I'd say no. You'd get way too many people that've only seen the movies compared with people that've read the novels.

I haven't read them myself, but I've heard things about Luke in the novel being damn near a cosmic god. Compared to Luke in ROTJ, who seemed quite slow and very weak. .

Then, with video games, you get things like Halo. People that've only played the game don't know that Master Chief can run at XXX mph, or lift XXX tons, or dodge bullets, or take on an entire army singlehandedly, because they've only played the games. Whereas, in some of the Halo threads that DID get through, I've heard of the Master Chief pulling off some INSANE stuff that he'd NEVER be capable of, in game.

Imagine the way many people only have the most BASIC knowledge of either Marvel or DC, and then extend that to many times the people for many times the companies. It'd be a cluster ****. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the novels non-cannon? Wouldn't that therefore outlaw them, the same as we can't use What Ifs for comic evidence?

As for Halo, I'm not sure on the rules of canon, but if not people can always specify which one... we already do that for a ton of characters in comics.

I really don't think so. There are some basic problems, but they can be worked around and are at least a breath of fresh air.

Maybe there can be a "Free For All" versus forum where any genre is acceptable.


badabing

I would like this, but if it happened I would mostly exploit it to make matches using really obscure scifi novels that no one else here has ever read

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the novels non-cannon? Wouldn't that therefore outlaw them, the same as we can't use What Ifs for comic evidence?

As for Halo, I'm not sure on the rules of canon, but if not people can always specify which one... we already do that for a ton of characters in comics.

I really don't think so. There are some basic problems, but they can be worked around and are at least a breath of fresh air.

You wish chuckles.

No, Lucas is a petty bastard, and as such he has some kind of weird 'half-canon' so his fans don't revolt and put his head on a pike.

I find that most Anime (Non DBZ) fights work fine , you just have to set limits and be a little picky.

IE : My naruto threads. I picked Rock Lee a street level character , gave a specific stipulation on his skills (Based on what saga/arc he was in) and the thread went pretty well.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Hell, there are some rational DBZ fans out there too.


...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
rational DBZ fans


Isn't that a oxymoron?

My five cents to add into that...

Some versus are hard to create... For example, when there's a debate of video game character vs comics character. Such things aren't acceptable in Game versus forum and thus often posted into Comics versus forum. Avalonofthewind has created two of such debates recently (one of them has survivedand another was closed- but probably even not because of being cross-genre but because of being spite).

As for Street Fighter and KOF universe, we have comics\manga based on them, but some character feats look much more uber than in game (the example is from KOF universe since it's the one I know and love well- in game, K's move Iron Trigger is able to block opponent's projectiles and flames, but in comics it was shown "up to the potential" and K' had some impressive flame control feats- controlling lava flow, for example).

Given that contradictory in power levels, you should actually state the appearance of character when starting the thread. For example, in "game" versus forums we should debate characters by their "default" ingame showings, but in comics forums we can use comics showings for KOF\SF characters.

Of course, comics appearance is not default for the characters from those universes and has contradictions with in-game power level- in comics power levels usually stated higher (or more versalite) than in game.
In such cases we should just state which appearance we take as default- in-game appearance for game versus forum or comics appearance in comics versus forum.

But of course, the settings should be written propelry to avoid mismatches or ridiculousness...
Like Wolverine vs Kenshiro. Who, apart from die-hard Wolvie fan or Marvel-biased person who knows dick about Kenshiro, would call that honest?

Also when use exotic characters vs well-known one, one should provide basic info about them- supported by scans/videos/quotes, if possible. If it isn't done, then moderator is free to close the thread...

And there were MANY exotic threads in comics vs. forum history. Hell, there was "Zorro vs d'Artagnan" somewhere...or something like that.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
...



Isn't that a oxymoron?

Not really

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not really

Yeah , I'm a rational DBZ fan.

Originally posted by grey fox
Yeah , I'm a rational DBZ fan.

Riiiiiiiiight. 313

DBZ is actually 100x more consistent than anything Marvel or DC ever put out

Coming from someone who admittedly doesn't even read the comics that he debates about, I find this less than credible...

Originally posted by Badabing
Maybe there can be a "Free For All" versus forum where any genre is acceptable.


badabing

Which has also been unanimously vetoed by the mods, so even if I wanted one (I don't) I'd never gain the support necessary. It would easily be the worst forum on KMC, and would surpass all others combined in reports and bans.

...

Anyway, I don't want to squelch discussion if there's anything else to say....so does anyone have stuff to add? If not, I may just close this eventually....because before long it'll be page 7, I won't have posted the reasoning behind this in a while, and a group of 3-4 posters will think this is an amazing idea without thinking it through and will be pissed when I have to shoot down their idea via PM.

I have stuff to say.

Originally posted by Validus
I have stuff to say.

Nobody wants to hear it, put it away Val.

Nobody ever listens to me anyway. aww

Originally posted by Validus
Nobody ever listens to me anyway. aww I know I don't mhm

Originally posted by Validus
Nobody ever listens to me anyway. aww

Validus?
Val?
Vally?
Valerie?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Validus?
Val?
Vally?
Valerie?

The Zutons pwn (Random, I know).

I <3 Val, racist and porky as he is.

Validus, if you're got something to say, say it.

As for me, in my opinion exotic threads should be allowed, but only when enough information on "exotic" character is provided.
Othervise you may get stupid threads like "Venom vs Dante" which is spite and even more- stupid spite- survive for 27 pages long.

And Badabing, you've already swallowed the bait of limited knowledge in such thread when you stated teamwork as an advantage against two characters who actually have been trained to fight together... But let bygones be bygones.
Actually, an example of STUPID combined thread was created not long ago, it's "Chun Li vs Electra". No stipulations whether it's game or comics version of ChunLi, no bio of ChunLi- nothing. Such threads should be banned as examples of trolling...

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Riiiiiiiiight. 313

Yeah.

See I figured this out a month ago. People overestimate the DBZ charachters. Ya see their strength has jack shit to do with how physically strong they are, it's more about how spiritually strong they are.

IE : Goku could feasibly blow up the entire Solar system if he did a 'Use-up-every-drop-of-my-energy-turn-to-stone-afterwards' attack.

Physically on the other hand he struggles to lift a skyscraper (arguably a class 100 feat).

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
But of course, the settings should be written propelry to avoid mismatches or ridiculousness...
Like Wolverine vs Kenshiro. Who, apart from die-hard Wolvie fan or Marvel-biased person who knows dick about Kenshiro, would call that honest?

You'd be surprised...that's why they are called DEBATES. You are no means the definitive opinion on anything nor is anyone else here.

Outside of that... Your idea of using comic/manga material in the comics forum, and their game feats in the games forum is well thought out, simple, and logical.

That's an idea I thought about long ago. And as for information... I was ROFL when Badabing posted "teamwork" as an advantage of Thing and Torch vs K' and Maxima (who were actually TRAINED to fight as tag team and arguably the best couple of friends in KOF universe). That's IMHO, of course... but that's (and Venom vs Dante thread) are good examples of that case.

Sorry for sounding offensive with Wolvie...It was not the best example.

Combined versus without basic information on characters provided=candidate for deletion.

Personally I think it would be a bad idea, look at it this way when it comes to games and Movies, people argue over what the characters can do, like Master Chief would beat any street leveller because the debtor never died when he played the game or because he beat an entire army while playing the game, I mean you can't really use that in a debate because its the actual game play and relies on the player and how good he is determains how strong the character is. So really you can only use cut scenes and sometimes that is very limited, otherwise you will have people saying Spider-man can beat Thanos cause they did it in Marvel vs Capcom 2.

Then of course you have the books and comics where the characters do something that they wouldn't do in films or games, would these be considered cannon could you use them in a debate.

For example when thinking about Star Wars because its a movie franchise I only consider the Films cannon, and the games don't count, like all theses extra force powers you get in the games to make it interesting when all they have in the films is force push and mind trick. Then I have a friend who thinks that everything is cannon because everything goes through George Lucas.


As far as DBZ is concerned that is something else entirely sometimes you get a rational debater Like Myself, or Jinzin and I think Capt it up was pretty rational too. But then you get the bad ones...who well shout "SUPERMAN CAN'T FIGHT" all the time which becomes old quickly.

Then you have people using filler from the anime which of course isn't cannon (though people think it is) to show a very weak feat for a DBZ character that makes them look bad, ie Goku struggling to move a mountain so he is no match for Superman. Then the whole strength and speed thing even DBZ fans on their own forums debate if they can over at the speed of light or not.
And the only lifting feat we have is Goku lifting 40 tons as a super saiyan when we don't know how much more he could lift. But people assume its either very low or very high.

Then there can be dub issues if someone has read a different dub.

So instead of nice healthy debates you just get people arguing over what is fact and what isn't and these threads become very stressful...and of course people run of to the mods moaning "he insulted me tell him off"

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
That's an idea I thought about long ago. And as for information... I was ROFL when Badabing posted "teamwork" as an advantage of Thing and Torch vs K' and Maxima (who were actually TRAINED to fight as tag team and arguably the best couple of friends in KOF universe). That's IMHO, of course... but that's (and Venom vs Dante thread) are good examples of that case.

Sorry for sounding offensive with Wolvie...It was not the best example.

Combined versus without basic information on characters provided=candidate for deletion.

No problem. Versus will always be interesting because not every character will be known. For example "The Ringer" (an obscure Marvel character) would need one hell of a bio just to be in a vs thread. Gouki (Akuma) would probably need a lot less introduction.

It will always be a challenge since all universes in different media have different rules, but even in standard comics nothing matches up perfectly.

As long as the canon source is stated and the members are having a well thought out debate or at least a peaceful one, a thread is productive and we all learn a bit.

Ah Lestat...maybe someday you can get your chance to shine!

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
No problem. Versus will always be interesting because not every character will be known. For example "The Ringer" (an obscure Marvel character) would need one hell of a bio just to be in a vs thread. Gouki (Akuma) would probably need a lot less introduction.

It will always be a challenge since all universes in different media have different rules, but even in standard comics nothing matches up perfectly.

As long as the canon source is stated and the members are having a well thought out debate or at least a peaceful one, a thread is productive and we all learn a bit.

Ah Lestat...maybe someday you can get your chance to shine!




Lestat

He's a pussy , crappiest vampire I have EVER seen. Literally 1 step above buffy vampires power wise and aroun d the same level as a good Marvel Vampire.

Originally posted by grey fox
Lestat

He's a pussy , crappiest vampire I have EVER seen. Literally 1 step above buffy vampires power wise and aroun d the same level as a good Marvel Vampire.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind


Dont harass me mate , it's the truth.

To clear up all the misconceptions about Star Wars: There are 4 levels of canon.

Primary is G - canon: These are the movies, movie novelizations, screenplays, and radio dramas.

Secondary is C - canon: These are the novels, most comics, game storylines, sourcebooks and guidebooks, and most other material. All of this is canon unless it is directly contradicted by G - canon (for example there was a comic written before TESB came out that said Darth Vader and Luke's father were two separate people, that's thrown out).

Tertiary is S - canon: These are RPG sourcebooks and game mechanics, and generally considered non - canon unless there is no information on the specific area in question in any G or C - canon materials.

Last is N - canon, which is things like the "Infinities" imprint comics, the Glove of Darth Vader books, and the Holiday Special. These have been officially declared to be non - canon.

This canon hierarchy has been officially endorsed by Lucasfilm.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
To clear up all the misconceptions about Star Wars: There are 4 levels of canon.

Primary is G - canon: These are the movies, movie novelizations, screenplays, and radio dramas.

Secondary is C - canon: These are the novels, most comics, game storylines, sourcebooks and guidebooks, and most other material. All of this is canon unless it is directly contradicted by G - canon (for example there was a comic written before TESB came out that said Darth Vader and Luke's father were two separate people, that's thrown out).

Tertiary is S - canon: These are RPG sourcebooks and game mechanics, and generally considered non - canon unless there is no information on the specific area in question in any G or C - canon materials.

Last is N - canon, which is things like the "Infinities" imprint comics, the Glove of Darth Vader books, and the Holiday Special. These have been officially declared to be non - canon.

This canon hierarchy has been officially endorsed by Lucasfilm.

That....is perhaps the STUPIDEST thing I have EVER READ !

Originally posted by grey fox
Lestat

He's a pussy , crappiest vampire I have EVER seen. Literally 1 step above buffy vampires power wise and aroun d the same level as a good Marvel Vampire.


Well, Lestat is pretty awesome...in Queen of the Damned..he kicked much ass.

If we're talkin' vampires though...i'd like to be able to use Alucard, Kaine, or Vampire Hunter D

Originally posted by charlemagne9746
Well, Lestat is pretty awesome...in Queen of the Damned..he kicked much ass.

If we're talkin' vampires though...i'd like to be able to use Alucard or kaine

Alucard would Pwn

There are only TWO vampires I know of who MAY be able to take the win over Alucard.

http://www.schnitt.de/_images/filme/vampire_hunter_d.jpg

D - He's the son of Dracula , insanely powerful but very restricted (he rarely uses his full vampiring powers) and has a metric f*ckton of spells/armour ect.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1a/Arcueid.jpg

Arcueid Brunestud- Last of the True Ancestors (vampires) her regenerative ability is insane, she was literally killed (chopped into eighteen pieces of meat) and dead for more then an hour and she regenerated.

At full power she vaporised a guy who is technically immortal.

Originally posted by grey fox
Alucard would Pwn

There are only TWO vampires I know of who MAY be able to take the win over Alucard.

http://www.schnitt.de/_images/filme/vampire_hunter_d.jpg

D - He's the son of Dracula , insanely powerful but very restricted (he rarely uses his full vampiring powers) and has a metric f*ckton of spells/armour ect.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1a/Arcueid.jpg

Arcueid Brunestud- Last of the True Ancestors (vampires) her regenerative ability is insane, she was literally killed (chopped into eighteen pieces of meat) and dead for more then an hour and she regenerated.

At full power she vaporised a guy who is technically immortal.

Lestat from the books would pwn them!

As for reasons this idea wouldn't work, see posters like 'Spidey-Dude.'

Originally posted by grey fox
That....is perhaps the STUPIDEST thing I have EVER READ !

Well it's the truth.

Originally posted by grey fox
That....is perhaps the STUPIDEST thing I have EVER READ !

Yeah . . . wow thats fuked up.

It makes more sense than continually having retcons every month

No it doesn't. Thats really more convoluted than retcons.

How so? It sets up everything in a simple hierarchy with only 4 levels, and the majority of material falls into C - canon.

Originally posted by Soljer
As for reasons this idea wouldn't work, see posters like 'Spidey-Dude.'
What do you mean?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
How so? It sets up everything in a simple hierarchy with only 4 levels, and the majority of material falls into C - canon.

Well what do the cannonical levels even mean?

Originally posted by Validus
What do you mean?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/450231_1-elektra-vs-chunli

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Actually, an example of STUPID combined thread was created not long ago, it's "Chun Li vs Electra". No stipulations whether it's game or comics version of ChunLi, no bio of ChunLi- nothing. Such threads should be banned as examples of trolling...

Notice that Spidey-douche made this the following day. It wasn't like Charlotte was talking about that exact thread, but she might as well have been.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well what do the cannonical levels even mean?

If something lower in the hierarchy conflicts with something above it, that which is lower is thrown out.

If something lower in the hierarchy DOESN'T conflict with anything above it, it's acceptable.

I'm not going to say I like the 'levels' of canon, but it's certainly understandable.

Originally posted by Soljer
If something lower in the hierarchy conflicts with something above it, that which is lower is thrown out.

If something lower in the hierarchy DOESN'T conflict with anything above it, it's acceptable.

I'm not going to say I like the 'levels' of canon, but it's certainly understandable.

OK that does make sense but without context is looks really ecclectic.

We can stop the name-calling Soljer. The thread was closed but that doesn't excuse the belittling.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
that doesn't excuse the belittling.

The forum really should be more open because right now it is really stale. Every thing has been done... and a lot of them have been done and more then once. Allow manga/games/books would really expand the options we have right now... and the forum fights are desperately in need of verity/creativity.

A a reboot of the VS forum would be another idea... make all the old rehashed threads feel new again!

KMC: CrisisOnInfiniteThreads

Originally posted by DigiMark007
We can stop the name-calling Soljer. The thread was closed but that doesn't excuse the belittling.


Awww, it used to! .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
KMC: CrisisOnInfiniteThreads

If we allowed all genres, there really would be a crisis, and there really would be an infinite number of threads....

Originally posted by Soljer
If we allowed all genres, there really would be a crisis, and there really would be an infinite number of threads....

I was responding to Srank's call for a reboot.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
KMC: CrisisOnInfiniteThreads

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I was responding to Srank's call for a reboot.

I realize. Just commenting.

There was the one before- but it survived only 7 posts long and was veery ridiculous.
I can find a link for previous one- which was also created by Spidey-dude. Stubborn ass...f*ckingly stubborn....

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Lestat from the books would pwn them!

No.

Lestat from the books is marginly more powerful then film Lestat.

people here have no fantasy, thats why
and guys like me keeps people away

and Rocky vs Punisher... Ranma Saotome vs Karate Kid... Zero vs Spiderman... Ed vs Popeye... So many good matches that will never get debated

Originally posted by Judge-of-Judges
people here have no fantasy, thats why
and guys like me keeps people away

and Rocky vs Punisher... Ranma Saotome vs Karate Kid... Zero vs Spiderman... Ed vs Popeye... So many good matches that will never get debated

Rocky vs Punisher has been done beofre.

Karate Kids wins

No idea who Zero is and who the hell is 'ed'

Zero vs Spiderman? If you're talking about Zero from KOF- which one? Original or Clone One?
That's a bit different...and the winner depends on settings...

Originally posted by grey fox
Rocky vs Punisher has been done beofre.

Karate Kids wins

No idea who Zero is and who the hell is \'ed\'

Punisher would not be able to knock out Rocky, as Ivan Drago have even failed, so i guess Rocky won that match.

No, Karate Kid loses.

Zero from Megaman X, and Ed from Ed, Edd n Eddy

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Zero vs Spiderman? If you\'re talking about Zero from KOF- which one? Original or Clone One?
That\'s a bit different...and the winner depends on settings...

Zero form the megaman x games

Karate Kid stalemates Ranma...

And Spidey most probably loses- but that greatly depends on environment.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Karate Kid stalemates Ranma...

And Spidey most probably loses- but that greatly depends on environment.

I guess spidey dont stands a chance if Zero has his sword, but in fist fight, its hard...

And yeah, Karate Kid have never fought a superpowered martial artist on Ranmas levelo, only clumsy guys like Superman, no actual fighters.

He had to counter INSANE level superpowers with his fighting skills...if your skill is enough to counter herald-level superpowered guys- that's what I call a top tier fighter.
He has chance of stalemate there....

Actually, I've always wanted to see Kenshiro vs Karate Kid. But I can fulfill my desire- by going into "The Official Anime vs anything" thread.

Originally posted by Judge-of-Judges
I guess spidey dont stands a chance if Zero has his sword, but in fist fight, its hard...

And yeah, Karate Kid have never fought a superpowered martial artist on Ranmas levelo, only clumsy guys like Superman, no actual fighters.
Not that hard... Zero's like a class 80.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Seriously?

It seems like months ago, the matches were repeating themselves in one way or another. It's become pretty stale in there. New blood is needed.

If someone wants to do Solid Snake vs Jason Voorhees or Darth Vader vs Dark Schneider, why should they be limited to who and what they can match up?


I can understand the DBZ ban, but not all audiences of all characters are that irrational. Hell, there are some rational DBZ fans out there too.

So why the limitations? Is it a moderation issue? IE not enough moderators to properly keep tabs on forum dwellers?

IMO more character choices means learning about different characters and adding to the fun of our useless knowledge.

I'm sure there are a ton of you who have characters matchups you would LOVE to post but don't because of current rules.

Agree/Disagree?

Discuss.

What a good idea