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To be honest punisher is underrated one the boards in my opinion.


Any one else agree? Also the reason for him being underrated is due to a certain debator.......





Punisher is bad ass and it seem people forggett how good he is, becuase a few people over play him saying he can hit people like spiderman as if his gun shots faster then a normal gun simple becuase punisher holding it. It a shame to becuase he actaully very tough combatant and I feel people have been underrating punisher simply due to the fact they are annoyed with other debator who praise him to highly and think he can hang with people he just can't hang with.


I could be wrong that just my theory from what I have seen on the boards latly. what you all think?

ermm alfheim probably agrees with you

Originally posted by jasonk3
ermm alfheim probably agrees with you

But probably not due to the same 'unnamed debator.'

.

would that debator be...naw it couldn't be me...i haven't been here for a while...or could it...and yes i agree with you.

Originally posted by jgiant
would that debator be...naw it couldn't be me...i haven't been here for a while...or could it...

No its me ive been arguing tooth and nail that Frank is underated. So everybody thinks I have a mancrush on the Punisher

Originally posted by jgiant

and yes i agree with you.

Actually this is a spite thread against me and captitup is being sarcastic. I just thought you should know.

Originally posted by capt it up
To be honest punisher is underrated one the boards in my opinion.


Any one else agree? Also the reason for him being underrated is due to a certain debator.......





Punisher is bad ass and it seem people forggett how good he is, becuase a few people over play him saying he can hit people like spiderman as if his gun shots faster then a normal gun simple becuase punisher holding it. It a shame to becuase he actaully very tough combatant and I feel people have been underrating punisher simply due to the fact they are annoyed with other debator who praise him to highly and think he can hang with people he just can't hang with.


I could be wrong that just my theory from what I have seen on the boards latly. what you all think? Where would you place Punisher on the ranks of other street level guys?

Originally posted by Alfheim
No its me ive been arguing tooth and nail that Frank is underated. So everybody thinks I have a mancrush on the Punisher



Actually this is a spite thread against me and captitup is being sarcastic. I just thought you should know. Haha...thats funny shit Alfheim...screw them if it is...don't be swayed by their middle school type bullshit, keep the good fight going cuz punisher is the badest mother in comic history and we can't rest until everyone knows it...or at least heard it from one of us.

This thread has been done before by the way.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=439244

Originally posted by jgiant
Haha...thats funny shit Alfheim...screw them if it is...don't be swayed by their middle school type bullshit, keep the good fight going cuz punisher is the badest mother in comic history and we can't rest until everyone knows it...or at least heard it from one of us.

Bro you should go the ranks for MA thread I got ****ing crucified. It was just me debating on my jacks.

Ohh yea i remember that. Whats the link for the one you got crusified in?

Originally posted by jgiant
Ohh yea i remember that.

I dont think I did badly but when you got MK fighting the Punisher on the same level and people are saying dumbass shit like. "Franks not using MA skill." I cant do ****. At the end of the day they decided to make MK third tier and I had to concede to Frank going down to tier 3.

If they left Mk at second tier would have stood a better chance.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont think I did badly but when you got MK fighting on the same level as the Punisher and people are saying dumbass shit like. "Franks not using MA skill." I cant do ****. At the end of the day they decided to make MK third tier and I had to concede to Frank going down to tier 3.

If they left Mk at second tier would have stood a better chance. He has hung wit DD sometimes even equally and i think he is slightly better than MK...

Originally posted by jgiant
He has hung wit DD sometimes even equally and i think he is slightly better than MK...

True but thats just early showings. His latest fight was pretty good. I wanna see more of that. Maybe this Cap Punisher thing will give Frank the respect he deserves. Frank used to be badass.

Its the same **** they did with Nomad. Nomad used to be this guy who could bust up superhumans with MA skill, suddenly they decided to turn him into a ****ing wimp.

Originally posted by Alfheim
True but thats just early showings. His latest fight was pretty good. I wanna see more of that. Maybe this Cap Punisher thing will give Frank the respect he deserves. Frank used to be badass.

Its the same **** they did with Nomad. Nomad used to be this guy who could bust up superhumans with MA skill, suddenly they decided to turn him into a ****ing wimp. He still is, his MAX stuff makes him look almost a force of nature sometimes.

Originally posted by jgiant
He still is, his MAX stuff makes him look almost a force of nature sometimes.

I only got a couple of issues of those. Need to get some more. I think he beat the **** out of Bullseye in that series.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I only got a couple of issues of those. Need to get some more. Which ones u got?

Originally posted by jgiant
Which ones u got?

Meh only two. Theres one where this woman gets eaten by polar bears and the issues where you have the copycat vigilantes like Elite and Captain Payback.

Frank was badass but it could be argued that he was just fighting goons.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Meh only two. Theres one where this woman gets eaten by polar bears and the issues where you have the copycat vigilantes like Elite and Captain Payback.

Frank was badass but it could be argued that he was just fighting goons. Those were the marvel knights comics from welcome back frank...you gotta pick up the MAX versions which include great reads like, In the Beginning, Slavers, Up is down and black is white, Mother Russia...check them out...

Originally posted by jgiant
Those were the marvel knights comics from welcome back frank...you gotta pick up the MAX versions which include great reads like, In the Beginning, Slavers, Up is down and black is white, Mother Russia...check them out...

Ok my bad, will do.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No its me ive been arguing tooth and nail that Frank is underated. So everybody thinks I have a mancrush on the Punisher



Actually this is a spite thread against me and captitup is being sarcastic. I just thought you should know.

did I say it was you....



also I am not being sarcastic. I do think punisher is being underrated on the boards..........thats why I made the thread.........

Originally posted by Newjak
Where would you place Punisher on the ranks of other street level guys?
hmmm I am not sure actaully. depends what your deffinition of street level is

Originally posted by Alfheim

Actually this is a spite thread against me and captitup is being sarcastic. I just thought you should know. No it's not, and no he's not.

Punisher IS underrated.

Just not to the extent that some of the fanboys (not pointing fingers) portray him.

Should he be able to take a few wins, if not the majority, against most street levelers?

Sure.

Should he be taking a majority against Spider-man?

Hell no.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
No it's not, and no he's not.

Punisher IS underrated.

Just not to the extent that some of the fanboys (not pointing fingers) portray him.

Should he be able to take a few wins, if not the majority, against most street levelers?

Sure.

Should he be taking a majority against Spider-man?

Hell no.
yup

Fergilicious.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
No it's not, and no he's not.

Punisher IS underrated.

Just not to the extent that some of the fanboys (not pointing fingers) portray him.

Should he be able to take a few wins, if not the majority, against most street levelers?

Sure.

Should he be taking a majority against Spider-man?

Hell no.

Thats fine by me. Im quite sure its a spite thread though because capitup in a previous thread (called underated characters) was calling me a fanboy and insulting me. He then decided to make this thread......

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/punishermolly.jpg

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats fine by me. Im quite sure its a spite thread though because capitup in a previous thread (called underated characters) was calling me a fanboy and insulting me. He then decided to make this thread......

Capt is special, leave him alone.

Punisher can be underrated at times, but he isn't a martial artist, he's a tough mother****er. He's clever and dangerous, but he's not some unstoppable street leveler.

Respect

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Capt is special, leave him alone.


Dont tell me what to do....are you joking.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Punisher can be underrated at times, but he isn't a martial artist,


Yeah thats why hes studied various MA arts. Has army training and has worked for secret intelligence. All that indicates hes not an MA.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

he's a tough mother****er. He's clever and dangerous, but he's not some unstoppable street leveler.

Never said he was.

Originally posted by llagrok
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/punishermolly.jpg I was waiting for that to be posted. Molly roxors.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I have a mancrush on the Punisher. Nobody's judging you.....



thumbsupdur

Molly rox my sox

Molly is the worst Runaway

Seriously.

Chase FTW.

Meh, Xavin is the worst Runaway.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh, Xavin is the worst Runaway.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats fine by me. Im quite sure its a spite thread though because capitup in a previous thread (called underated characters) was calling me a fanboy and insulting me. He then decided to make this thread......
Man you are almsot always wrong........it amazing.


no it not a spite thread.........thats 3 times alone in this thread that you have been wrong about my intentions.........

How strong is Molly anyways? She ripped Cloak's cloak off, but the handbooks list her I think 2-10 range.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
How strong is Molly anyways? She ripped Cloak's cloak off, but the handbooks list her I think 2-10 range.
she strong, but not rediculously strong from what I udnerstand

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh, Xavin is the worst Runaway.

You lie, atleast Xavin isn't annoying.

I actually hate how annoying Molly is, she acts like she's about 5 when she's 12. Come on, that's a little pathetic, she's better under Whedon than she was under BKV though, not so annoying.

Chase still pwns the entire team at runaway-ness.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Dont tell me what to do....are you joking.

Shut up woman, go mancrush on Punisher some more.




Name some martial arts he's studied. As a member of the United States Air Force I can guarantee that the only martial arts training you'll get in any branch of the military is on your own time. You learn how to fight, and in some jobs you learn fighting systems, but these are pretty much all just glorified brawling techniques with a few simple submissions mixed in. Because in reality, there isn't much more effective than a full on blow to the groin/face.




Actions speak louder than words.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
You lie, atleast Xavin isn't annoying.

I actually hate how annoying Molly is, she acts like she's about 5 when she's 12. Come on, that's a little pathetic, she's better under Whedon than she was under BKV though, not so annoying.

Chase still pwns the entire team at runaway-ness.

I think we all know, that the raptor is the glue. Without her, the entire runaways family would fall apart

I'm guessing Molly's powers are psionic or something, since she gets that purple glow whenever she uses them.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Shut up woman, go mancrush on Punisher some more.




Name some martial arts he's studied. As a member of the United States Air Force I can guarantee that the only martial arts training you'll get in any branch of the military is on your own time. You learn how to fight, and in some jobs you learn fighting systems, but these are pretty much all just glorified brawling techniques with a few simple submissions mixed in. Because in reality, there isn't much more effective than a full on blow to the groin/face.




Actions speak louder than words.
nataku correct the military h2h training is not very impressive. It not consider MA styels either it just a bunch of random moves, but for the most part it just helps you in brawling.



This being said speacial ops h2h training is quite different. Your h2h training is much better. You actaully in many cases are trained by martial artist.

Yes the best h2h fighters are consider the marines and frank was speacial ops so yes he a train fighter. He likly knows a bunch of moves from different styles however that does not make him a highly trained MA. Frank may be a master of of two styles maybe. Though he a highly skilled fighter and resource full his MA prowess is limited.

Capt it up and Nataku....side by side?

The only team up more contrasting would be Red Hood and Nightwing!!

I'm quite surprised Molly's fist didn't go clean THROUGH Frank. Would of been awesome.

Punisher would be on the ground all 'shit..medic...medic ! ' and Molly would be crying her eyes out over it (even though Frank was going to kill them because...well..he's an *******) and in the background you'd have me in the classic MJJ suit laughing and pointing.

Then the whole city explodes, we back out and it all turns out be a paining done by Issac from Heroes.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
You lie, atleast Xavin isn't annoying.

I actually hate how annoying Molly is, she acts like she's about 5 when she's 12. Come on, that's a little pathetic, she's better under Whedon than she was under BKV though, not so annoying.

Chase still pwns the entire team at runaway-ness.

Victor and Xavin were the only Runaways I didn't want to see shoved into a meat grinder feet first.

Also agreed about the 5 year old molly thing. Though I've found the cutesy crap to actually have increased since whedon took over. I know it's an act but Jesus Christ it's annoying.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Molly is the worst Runaway

Seriously.

Chase FTW.

Pft, the worst is easily Xavin.

The "guy" can't decide whether he's a hot chick or a dude.

Oh course, the worst runaways always do have a knack for getting killed off

EDIT: Plus, Molly is a great character

Originally posted by Nataku8188




Name some martial arts he's studied. As a member of the United States Air Force I can guarantee that the only martial arts training you'll get in any branch of the military is on your own time. You learn how to fight, and in some jobs you learn fighting systems, but these are pretty much all just glorified brawling techniques with a few simple submissions mixed in. Because in reality, there isn't much more effective than a full on blow to the groin/face.

You're right about that...

Originally posted by grey fox
I'm quite surprised Molly's fist didn't go clean THROUGH Frank. Would of been awesome.

Punisher would be on the ground all 'shit..medic...medic ! ' and Molly would be crying her eyes out over it (even though Frank was going to kill them because...well..he's an *******) and in the background you'd have me in the classic MJJ suit laughing and pointing.

Then the whole city explodes, we back out and it all turns out be a paining done by Issac from Heroes.

I have to say I liked this writing on the Punisher better than how Millar wrote him in Civil War and how he's written in War Journal.

Seriously, Marvel needs to stop treating Punisher like some kind of hero. Plain and simple the guy really is an assh*le

That's the thing ! I want Marvel Zombies Frank, who just killed the remaining humans because they were scum , completely ignoring the fact that they might be necessary for the human races survival.

Frank is one MEAN sonovabitch and shouldn't be afraid to gun down little children.

Originally posted by Grimm22

Seriously, Marvel needs to stop treating Punisher like some kind of hero. Plain and simple the guy really is an assh*le

Well I dont entirely agree with all his views, but maybe you should wait till your whole family gets gunned down in front of you before you judge.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Shut up woman, go mancrush on Punisher some more.

Wow, thanks for that.



Originally posted by Nataku8188

Name some martial arts he's studied. As a member of the United States Air Force I can guarantee that the only martial arts training you'll get in any branch of the military is on your own time. You learn how to fight, and in some jobs you learn fighting systems, but these are pretty much all just glorified brawling techniques with a few simple submissions mixed in. Because in reality, there isn't much more effective than a full on blow to the groin/face.

Ok here goes


http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thepunisherarmory2page222zy.jpg
"When I was in the depths of my martial arts training."

Here Frank states that he has studied various martial arts but does not specify.


http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial20bb.jpg
Shorin Ryu

http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial35rl.jpg
Chin-Na

http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial50rr.jpg
Uses a technique used by Korean warriors 2000 years ago.

http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial62go.jpg
Ninjuitsu


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher
His styles of choice being Nash Ryu Ju Jitsu (the four-style martial art founded by his Sensei Adam Nash and the Marine Corps LINE combat system).

So thats 5 styles he has studied and im sure he knows more.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Actions speak louder than words.

Er mate you dont listen to what im saying. When you debate with somebody you should process the information first before coming to a conclusion. You dont do this, you dont read my posts or scans properly you just skim over it and assume I dont know what im talking about.

Your the one whos been saying that The Punishers isnt a martial artist. Ive just proved you wrong, maybe you should listen more and insult less.


Originally posted by Alfheim

Frank loses to DD 7/10, but a well written Frank does not get manhandled by DD.


Considering as well that ive said that Frank loses 7/10 to DD in H2H. I dont think that means I have mancrush. No doubt you will probably just skim through this and start calling me names.

uggg punisher taking the majorty from DD in h2h is a little much let a lone 7/10

Originally posted by capt it up
uggg punisher taking the majorty from DD in h2h is a little much let a lone 7/10

Uh isnt that what I said Frank loses 7/10 to DD........

Originally posted by Alfheim
Uh isnt that what I said Frank loses 7/10 to DD........
oh my bad that seems fair

Alfheim, check out his aim at the top. Apparently he wasn't very good at martial arts

Seriously though, I think it's completely believable that Molly caught him by surprise. Who'd expect the little 12 year old with a cute animal hat to have super strength.

Originally posted by llagrok
Alfheim, check out his aim at the top. Apparently he wasn't very good at martial arts

Originally posted by Alfheim
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thepunisherarmory2page222zy.jpg
"When I was in the depths of my martial arts training."

Here Frank states that he has studied various martial arts but does not specify.


http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial20bb.jpg
Shorin Ryu

http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial35rl.jpg
Chin-Na

http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial50rr.jpg
Uses a technique used by Korean warriors 2000 years ago.

http://img376.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martial62go.jpg
Ninjuitsu


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punisher
His styles of choice being Nash Ryu Ju Jitsu (the four-style martial art founded by his Sensei Adam Nash and the Marine Corps LINE combat system).

So thats 5 styles he has studied and im sure he knows more.



Er mate you dont listen to what im saying. When you debate with somebody you should process the information first before coming to a conclusion. You dont do this, you dont read my posts or scans properly you just skim over it and assume I dont know what im talking about.

Your the one whos been saying that The Punishers isnt a martial artist. Ive just proved you wrong, maybe you should listen more and insult less.




Considering as well that ive said that Frank loses 7/10 to DD in H2H. I dont think that means I have mancrush. No doubt you will probably just skim through this and start calling me names.

I see what you're saying, I see what you post, but that doesn't make him a martial artist.

Shit, Deadpool has showings that put him on Cap's level easy, but does he regularly fight like that? Does he rely on martial arts? No. The same thing goes for Punisher.

Maybe if you had a better comprehension of what we were saying in the first place you would stop throwing shit we already know in our faces.

No shit he's studied martial arts, I asked what kind simply to see if they ever stated such. You pull out the Wiki on punisher, and then you talk about Marine fighting styles. The Marine fighting style is exactly what I said it was. It's a lot of simple strikes and submissions.

Just because you can admit someone's going to lose to someone who is obviously their superior doesn't mean you don't have a mancrush on them.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I see what you're saying, I see what you post, but that doesn't make him a martial artist.

Yeah of course not. Hes said that hes studied martial arts in depth and uses it on a regular basis therefore that makes him NOT a martial artist. Thats makes sense.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Shit, Deadpool has showings that put him on Cap's level easy, but does he regularly fight like that? Does he rely on martial arts? No. The same thing goes for Punisher.

Right ok and Deadpool is classified as a second tier fighter despite the fact he doesnt rely on it all the time. Well done.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Maybe if you had a better comprehension of what we were saying in the first place you would stop throwing shit we already know in our faces. No shit he's studied martial arts,

Firstly I dont listen because you dont know what you're talking about. You gave the example of Deadpool who is a second tier fighter and if you look at what you said.....

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Name some martial arts he's studied. As a member of the United States Air Force I can guarantee that the only martial arts training you'll get in any branch of the military is on your own time. You learn how to fight, and in some jobs you learn fighting systems, but these are pretty much all just glorified brawling techniques with a few simple submissions mixed in. Because in reality, there isn't much more effective than a full on blow to the groin/face.


You implied the only training he has had was in the army and he only learnt glorified brawling techniques

Originally posted by Nataku8188

I asked what kind simply to see if they ever stated such.

No you were not. Stop backpedaling, you asked because you only thought that he had only learnt basic fighting styles in the army.

Originally posted by Nataku8188

You learn how to fight, and in some jobs you learn fighting systems, but these are pretty much all just glorified brawling techniques

Originally posted by Nataku8188

You pull out the Wiki on punisher, and then you talk about Marine fighting styles. The Marine fighting style is exactly what I said it was. It's a lot of simple strikes and submissions.

This is exactly what im talking about I mentioned four other martial arts you focused on the that suits you. Hell did you even bother to read my scans? Did you see the scan where the guys says "My family have been studying Chinna for 300 years." , then Frank uses Chinna against him and kills him? Frank even says that he has studied martial arts..he says it in black and white but despite this you draw the conclusion that hes not a martial artist.


"When I was in the depths of my martial arts training." = Not a martial artist

Originally posted by Nataku8188

Just because you can admit someone's going to lose to someone who is obviously their superior doesn't mean you don't have a mancrush on them.

Dont make excuses now. Mancrush was meant in the context of fanboy. iF you paid attention instead of jumping down my thraot you would have got it.

Originally posted by Grimm22
I have to say I liked this writing on the Punisher better than how Millar wrote him in Civil War and how he's written in War Journal.

Seriously, Marvel needs to stop treating Punisher like some kind of hero. Plain and simple the guy really is an assh*le


yeah..I'll take Max punisher compared to recent crap 616 version.

Never understood how anyone could even read a title with 616 frank in it after reading max. Sure he's a dick in the max version too but Ennis balances it out by making the guys he kills even bigger assholes then he could ever be. No bank robbers who probably never killed anyone in their meta carriers no little kids who are just breaking and entering I mean real life monsters.

Originally posted by Black Adam
no little kids who are just breaking and entering I mean real life monsters.


He did what?

Punisher doesn't rely on MA, therefore he isn't primarily a martial artist.

I can study chemistry for 20 years, but work in Mcdonalds. That doesn't make my occupation a chemist, I'm still a lowly Mcdonald worker.

I hope that analogy makes sense .

I now have visions of a guy in a white lab coat, dispensing Big Macs...

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Punisher doesn't rely on MA, therefore he isn't primarily a martial artist.

I can study chemistry for 20 years, but work in Mcdonalds. That doesn't make my occupation a chemist, I'm still a lowly Mcdonald worker.

I hope that analogy makes sense .

I understand what your saying but the problem is there are loads of showings were Punisher uses MA. Just because there are some were he doesnt does not make him any less an MA. Thats like saying Wolverine is slow because sometimes he allows himself to be hit.

Frank doesnt need to rely on MA to be an MA he has sto study and apply it and Frank does on a regular basis.

The analogy doesnt make sense because eventhough you work at McDonalds that doesnt stop you from being a damn good Chemist you just dont apply it because of your job.

Also analysing the analogy Chemist skills = Ma skills Working at MCD's= relying on other thing. The problem with your analogy is that if Chemistry knowledge is MA skill then you dont get to use them EVER, but Frank has used his MA skills loads of times.

In other words what your saying is that Frank is like the Chemist at McD's he doesnt get to apply his knowledege, but the fact of the matter is Frank does time and time again.

P.S. I understand you, but I dont agree.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I understand what your saying but the problem is there are loads of showings were Punisher uses MA. Just because there are some were he doesnt does not make him any less an MA. Thats like saying Wolverine is slow because sometimes he allows himself to be hit.

The analogy doesnt make sense because eventhough you work at McDonalds that doesnt stop you from being a damn good Chemist you just dont apply it because of your job.

Also analysing the analogy Chemist skills = Ma skills Working at MCD's= relying on other thing. The problem with your analogy is that if Chemistry knowledge is MA skill then you dont get to use them EVER, but Frank has used his MA skills loads of times.

P.S. I understand you, but I dont agree.

IMO Frank uses guns probably about x10 the amount he uses his MA skills.

And I think the analogy makes sense, I never said working at Mcdonalds stops you from being a good chemist, but it stops you from being able to tell people your occupation is a chemist. You're just a Mcdonalds worker with good chemistry knowledge.

but yes, you don't exactly apply your chemistry skills whilst working at Mcdonalds, you never know though. I still think that in a fight Frank 9/10 would go to draw for his guns than straight Martial Arts, I'd see that as a contingency plan, he doesn't go into situations wanting to use them; but he has the skills if he needs them.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
IMO Frank uses guns probably about x10 the amount he uses his MA skills.

And I think the analogy makes sense, I never said working at Mcdonalds stops you from being a good chemist, but it stops you from being able to tell people your occupation is a chemist. You're just a Mcdonalds worker with good chemistry knowledge.

but yes, you don't exactly apply your chemistry skills whilst working at Mcdonalds, you never know though. I still think that in a fight Frank 9/10 would go to draw for his guns than straight Martial Arts, I'd see that as a contingency plan, he doesn't go into situations wanting to use them; but he has the skills if he needs them.

Thats fair enough. However I still think that eventhough he uses his guns more than his MA skill Frank still uses his MA skills enough times to be considered to be an MA.

Originally posted by Alfheim
He did what?

Runaways

Originally posted by grey fox
Runaways

har har har..very funny....perve.

Originally posted by Alfheim
har har har..very funny....perve.

How ?

Originally posted by grey fox
How ?

Hey wait a minute it thought it was you just being wierd...you know your humour can be a bit twisted you know. You mean did as in killed? He killed runaway kids?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hey wait a minute it thought it was you just being wierd...you know your humour can be a bit twisted you know. You mean did as in killed? He killed runaway kids?

Look.

Punisher recently encountered the runaways , black adam was deriding that. You asked whom the little kids were, I told you.

In an earlier post I stated Punisher wouldn't feel bad about murdering them, because ' He's an *******'.

yup punisher is awesome

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I dont entirely agree with all his views, but maybe you should wait till your whole family gets gunned down in front of you before you judge.

That still doesn't justify how Frank thinks of himself as the judge, jury and executioner.

People deserve a fair trial, even criminals

Originally posted by Grimm22
That still doesn't justify how Frank thinks of himself as the judge, jury and executioner.

If he was more subtle about it I'd probably like the character more, but then again he wouldn't be The Punisher if he was.

Originally posted by Grimm22
That still doesn't justify how Frank thinks of himself as the judge, jury and executioner.

People deserve a fair trial, even criminals

Someone did that to my family, I'd be out there doing the exact same thing. I sure as hell wouldn't last as long, probably be dead or behind bars within the week, wouldn't really matter though.

People deserve a fail trial because that's what you've been brought up to believe, if the tradition in America was that police shoot litterers in the head on sight and that had always been like that, I doubt you'd think twice about it. You just wouldn't litter.

He's not a villain, he's just a little ****ed in the head, he thinks of himself as a force unto itself. With him the ends justify the means I guess, but yeah..

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Someone did that to my family, I'd be out there doing the exact same thing. I sure as hell wouldn't last as long, probably be dead or behind bars within the week, wouldn't really matter though.

People deserve a fail trial because that's what you've been brought up to believe, if the tradition in America was that police shoot litterers in the head on sight and that had always been like that, I doubt you'd think twice about it. You just wouldn't litter.

He's not a villain, he's just a little ****ed in the head, he thinks of himself as a force unto itself. With him the ends justify the means I guess, but yeah..

I don't think he's a villain, but he sure as hell isn't a hero, either

And I don't say that everyone deserves a fair chance at justice, because it's what "I've been brought up to believe", I say that because I KNOW its the right thing too do.

In the end, Frank is just a soldier who was thrown back into war, when he lost his family. He think's he's fighting a war, not protecting people

Originally posted by Grimm22
I don't think he's a villain, but he sure as hell isn't a hero, either

And I don't say that everyone deserves a fair chance at justice, because it's what "I've been brought up to believe", I say that because I KNOW its the right thing too do.

Mmmmkay, sure.

If you were brought up someplace where Punisher's tactics were common-place as a form of law-enforcement, you would know no otherwise.

You only say that a fair trial is necessary because you have had the benefit of living in a place where a fair trial is very much demanded.

I'm not arguing that it's not the right thing, that it's only the right thing in our modern society and people from a different perspective may not view it as the right thing.

Originally posted by CasanoVa
Mmmmkay, sure.

If you were brought up someplace where Punisher's tactics were common-place as a form of law-enforcement, you would know no otherwise.

You only say that a fair trial is necessary because you have had the benefit of living in a place where a fair trial is very much demanded.

I'm not arguing that it's not the right thing, that it's only the right thing in our modern society and people from a different perspective may not view it as the right thing.

Well you're right there

But, the point still remains that, just because you're raised to believe something doesn't necessarily mean you will follow those beliefs

Originally posted by grey fox
Look.

Punisher recently encountered the runaways , black adam was deriding that. You asked whom the little kids were, I told you.

In an earlier post I stated Punisher wouldn't feel bad about murdering them, because ' He's an *******'.

Er ok.

Originally posted by Grimm22
That still doesn't justify how Frank thinks of himself as the judge, jury and executioner.

People deserve a fair trial, even criminals

I agree. Im just saying before you criticize somebody try to put yourself in that persons shoes. How would you react if your family were gunned down in front of you and nobody did something about? Sometimes its really easy to judge when your not in pain.

You remind of this guy who said he was half dead because he had seen half his friends gunned down in front of him. This girl just screwed up her face and said "Have you been to church."

Originally posted by Grimm22
I don't think he's a villain, but he sure as hell isn't a hero, either

And I don't say that everyone deserves a fair chance at justice, because it's what "I've been brought up to believe", I say that because I KNOW its the right thing too do.

In the end, Frank is just a soldier who was thrown back into war, when he lost his family. He think's he's fighting a war, not protecting people
Ok now imagine that you are one if not the greatest Marines to ever live. You have been trained forged into a killing machine one who has committed some of the worst acts ever seen. You did this all according to the law of your own government. It was all consider legally and you were praised and honored by your government for these actions.

Now imagine your family is murder horribly before your eyes and you are left for dead. Your government will do nothing to these people and you know they still walk this world free of the crime they had committed and will commit more crimes unpunished.

Now you know with your training and experience you can make these people pay for there actions and save many lives.

Now the act of killing these people is illegal yet when you were in war you commit the same acts against people who were far less terrible.

So you have to look at it through punisher's own eyes. In war he killed many people, most of which if not all did not deserve to die as badly as the men who had killed his family, yet it was legal for him to kill those individuals, yet not ones who deserve it more.

So you can not judge his actions unless you have lived a life similar to his.

Originally posted by capt it up
Ok now imagine that you are one if not the greatest Marines to ever live. You have been trained forged into a killing machine one who has committed some of the worst acts ever seen. You did this all according to the law of your own government. It was all consider legally and you were praised and honored by your government for these actions.

Now imagine your family is murder horribly before your eyes and you are left for dead. Your government will do nothing to these people and you know they still walk this world free of the crime they had committed and will commit more crimes unpunished.

Now you know with your training and experience you can make these people pay for there actions and save many lives.

Now the act of killing these people is illegal yet when you were in war you commit the same acts against people who were far less terrible.

So you have to look at it through punisher on eyes. In war he killed many people, most of which if not all did not deserve to die as badly as the men who had killed his family, yet it was legal for him to kill those individuals, yet not ones who deserve it more.

So you can not judge his actions unless you have live a live similar to his.

I totally agree. Im not saying its right im saying I can fully understand why Frank does it.

Punisher is more or less chaotic good. He wants to do things for the better, but he doesn't do it in the way Cap or Spiderman would do it. He's kind of an antihero like Wolverine.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Punisher is more or less chaotic good. He wants to do things for the better, but he doesn't do it in the way Cap or Spiderman would do it. He's kind of an antihero like Wolverine. He's not a hero at all, he's a villain.
He's just lucky he doens't run into Metropolis with that crap.

Originally posted by Juntai
He's not a hero at all, he's a villain.
He's just lucky he doens't run into Metropolis with that crap.

Hes an anti-hero.

Originally posted by capt it up
Ok now imagine that you are one if not the greatest Marines to ever live. You have been trained forged into a killing machine one who has committed some of the worst acts ever seen. You did this all according to the law of your own government. It was all consider legally and you were praised and honored by your government for these actions.

Now imagine your family is murder horribly before your eyes and you are left for dead. Your government will do nothing to these people and you know they still walk this world free of the crime they had committed and will commit more crimes unpunished.

Now you know with your training and experience you can make these people pay for there actions and save many lives.

Now the act of killing these people is illegal yet when you were in war you commit the same acts against people who were far less terrible.

So you have to look at it through punisher's own eyes. In war he killed many people, most of which if not all did not deserve to die as badly as the men who had killed his family, yet it was legal for him to kill those individuals, yet not ones who deserve it more.

So you can not judge his actions unless you have lived a life similar to his.

That's what I said

He's a soldier who never really left the war.

But, that still doesn't justify what he does

Originally posted by Soljer


Well, he IS the main character of his series, and he DOES lack pretty much EVERY traditional heroic quality.... Yeah, Murderers tend to not have heroic qualities.
In fact, the quality seems more. . . . .


Villainous?

Originally posted by Juntai
Yeah, Murderers tend to not have heroic qualities.
In fact, the quality seems more. . . . .


Villainous?

Hes killing people who kill innocent civilians.

Beating people up is villanous as well. Thats what cap does sure he doesnt kill anybody though.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hes killing people who kill innocent civilians.

Beating people up is villanous as well. Thats what cap does sure he doesnt kill anybody though.

He doesn't only kill murderers

He kills basically ALL criminals, even ones who really don't deserve it

Originally posted by Juntai
He's not a hero at all, he's a villain.
He's just lucky he doens't run into Metropolis with that crap. He's an antihero, he fits the definition. Just like Akuma and several other characters who kill, but ultimately don't do it for evil.

Originally posted by Juntai
an·ti·he·ro also an·ti-he·ro (ān'tē-hîr'ō, ān'tī-) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. an·ti·he·roes also an·ti-he·roes
A main character in a dramatic or narrative work who is characterized by a lack of traditional heroic qualities, such as idealism or courage. You just proved my own point to me, thanks. It's not so much what he does, it's why he does it. No different from people in real life.

Originally posted by Grimm22
He doesn't only kill murderers

He kills basically ALL criminals, even ones who really don't deserve it

Well nobodies perfect. It could be argued that people like Cap and Spiderman should kill certain villains because the villains keep coming back to kill more people ie The Joker. If Batman had killed The Joker 100s of lives would have been saved.

People like Frank are like REAL humans. Eventhough Cap is my favourite super-hero most people are not like that in real life. Frank does what a normal person would probably do in his situation.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well nobodies perfect. It could be argued that people like Cap and Spiderman should kill certain villains because the villains keep coming back to kill more people ie The Joker.

People like Frank are like REAL humans. Eventhough Cap is my favourite super-hero most people are not like that in real life. Frank does what a normal person would probably do in his situation. I have to say I actually agree with you on the humanity part.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I have to say I actually agree with you on the humanity part.

Nice for a change.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He's an antihero, he fits the definition. Just like Akuma and several other characters who kill, but ultimately don't do it for evil.

You just proved my own point to me, thanks. It's not so much what he does, it's why he does it. No different from people in real life. Does he also fit these descriptions?


Villain
1. A wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately
2. A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.



Murderer
1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.

Evil
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well nobodies perfect. It could be argued that people like Cap and Spiderman should kill certain villains because the villains keep coming back to kill more people ie The Joker. If Batman had killed The Joker 100s of lives would have been saved.

People like Frank are like REAL humans. Eventhough Cap is my favourite super-hero most people are not like that in real life. Frank does what a normal person would probably do in his situation. 'Normal' people don't go on worldwide killing sprees.

Meh... Emma Frost will selectively erase happy memories, she'll violate a crowd of people because they're annoying, she'll subvert the law with her money and connections, she's a psychic adulterer, she'll completely mindf*ck people, she attacked her own team, and she's even willing to kill relatively innocent people if it's pragmatic...

She's still technically a hero. Of course she used to be a villain I suppose which gives her some leeway...

Originally posted by Juntai
'Normal' people don't go on worldwide killing sprees.

Normal people dont have the training that Frank does. Im pretty sure that if your family were killed in front of you AND nobody did anything to bring them to justice and you had the means to take revenge....this is what you would do...you would call them up talk to them and tell them off about how bad they have been and you would all end up holding hands around the globe singing carols.

Oh yeah what about Batman not killing Joker?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh... Emma Frost will selectively erase happy memories, she'll violate a crowd of people because they're annoying, she'll subvert the law with her money and connections, she's a psychic adulterer, she'll completely mindf*ck people, she attacked her own team, and she's even willing to kill relatively innocent people if it's pragmatic...

She's still technically a hero. Of course she used to be a villain I suppose which gives her some leeway...

She sounds like a horrible person but people like Xavier piss me off as well.

Originally posted by Grimm22
He doesn't only kill murderers

He kills basically ALL criminals, even ones who really don't deserve it

didn't 616 punisher use to shoot jay walkers?

Originally posted by Alfheim
She sounds like a horrible person but people like Xavier piss me off as well. She's practically perfect in every way, I'll have you know. 313

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She's practically perfect in every way, I'll have you know. 313

Ha! I know you would like her...I dunno again the thing with Emma is that she seems like a human being. Eventhough Cap is my favourite hero sometime hes doent seem like a real person because hes just too....nice.

I dont know much about Emma but I suspect like alot of people in rea life she started out as a normal person but people ****ed her over alot and then she became a b*tch. In that case eventhough I dont agree wit her action I can understand because she is just behaving in a rational sort of way.

Originally posted by Juntai
Does he also fit these descriptions?


Villain
1. A wicked or evil person; someone who does evil deliberately
2. A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.



Murderer
1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.

Evil
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction Nope because he's doing it for a greater good. We do things often that hurt sometimes to get the better benefit out of it. He's ultimately doing it to end the suffering of others who shouldn't s uffer.

No matter what you say, he is chaotic good, he fits the description just like Venom. He wants to do good, but his tactics leave much to be desired, making him an antihero. What do you think an antihero is?

Originally posted by Juntai

He's just lucky he doens't run into Metropolis with that crap.

LOL DC morality.

Originally posted by Juntai
He's not a hero at all, he's a villain.
He's just lucky he doens't run into Metropolis with that crap.

Oh yeah this is for you Juntai.

http://img280.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deadpool055p120gl.jpg

Frank is such an ***hole that a nomarll person intervened to save his life eventhough he could have got killed. The guy states he saved his wifes life and hes making the streets safer.

Damn Frank is such an ***hole.