Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Superman and Wonder Woman (Without super speed)
Top condition after each fight.

1.Human Torch, Sunspot, Sunfire, Sunpyre Firestar
2.Ms. Marvel, Namor, Hulk, Juggernaut
3.Storm, Crystal, Weather Wizard, Meggan (no power copying)
4.Magneto, Polaris
5.Iceman (omega), Poison Ivy (full power)
6.Jean, Rachel, Cable, X-Man (no phoenix)
7.Onslaught, Apocalypse Cassandra Nova

Originally posted by psy_blade
Superman and Wonder Woman (Without super speed)
Top condition after each fight.

1.Human Torch, Sunspot, Sunfire, Sunpyre Firestar
2.Ms. Marvel, Namor, Hulk, Juggernaut
3.Storm, Crystal, Weather Wizard, Meggan (no power copying)
4.Magneto, Polaris
5.Iceman (omega), Poison Ivy (full power)
6.Jean, Rachel, Cable, X-Man (no phoenix)
7.Onslaught, Apocalypse Cassandra Nova

stops at two

stopped at 2

btw, would team 1 actually make supes stronger?

Juggernaut ftw.

2

5 or 6

gets destroyed by team 2

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
5 or 6


I think supes needs to take a nice sunbath before this fight. A nice long one.

Die at team 2

2

hulke smaysh - i heer Juggenout iz gud too.

Order right much?

5

Originally posted by psy_blade
Superman and Wonder Woman (Without super speed)
Top condition after each fight.

1.Human Torch, Sunspot, Sunfire, Sunpyre Firestar
2.Ms. Marvel, Namor, Hulk, Juggernaut
3.Storm, Crystal, Weather Wizard, Meggan (no power copying)
4.Magneto, Polaris
5.Iceman (omega), Poison Ivy (full power)
6.Jean, Rachel, Cable, X-Man (no phoenix)
7.Onslaught, Apocalypse Cassandra Nova

with no rule against bfr, they get to 7, imo...

They have absolutley no way of getting past 2. Without superspeed they are both screwed. The hulk takes wondy out and supes gets demolished by juggernaut and namor.Hulk and Juggernaut can do it themselves

Originally posted by ultimatethor
They have absolutley no way of getting past 2. Without superspeed they are both screwed. The hulk takes wondy out and supes gets demolished by juggernaut and namor.Hulk and Juggernaut can do it themselves

Juggernaut is rendered immobile with the lasso. Wondy takes out Namor and ms. marvel. Superman kils hulk.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Juggernaut is rendered immobile with the lasso. Wondy takes out Namor and ms. marvel. Superman kils hulk.

Juggy is unstoppable lasso or not. Also wondy does not have her speed( which in actuality is non existent in direct physical combat) so getting him with the laso wont be that easy. Supes best way of beating hulk which is his speed is gone as well so him killing hulk is not happening. He will eventually get into a slug fest with hulk which hulk wil win. Meanwhile jugg beats wonderwoman senseless and namor and MS marvel applaud

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Juggy is unstoppable lasso or not. Also wondy does not have her speed( which in actuality is non existent in direct physical combat) so getting him with the laso wont be that easy. Supes best way of beating hulk which is his speed is gone as well so him killing hulk is not happening. He will eventually get into a slug fest with hulk which hulk wil win. Meanwhile jugg beats wonderwoman senseless and namor and MS marvel applaud

WHAT THE HELL. WONDER WOMAN USED super speed to render AMAZO immobile. The juggernaut is rendered immobile with the lasso due to his will be sapped and he doing what she wants. Unstoppable means nothing when you can't break the lasso. You clearly have no understanding of how much faster wonder woman and superman are than the marvel team.

Originally posted by fangirl101
WHAT THE HELL. WONDER WOMAN USED super speed to render AMAZO immobile. The juggernaut is rendered immobile with the lasso due to his will be sapped and he doing what she wants. Unstoppable means nothing when you can't break the lasso. You clearly have no understanding of how much faster wonder woman and superman are than the marvel team.

Thankyou for making it totally obvious that you have comprehension problems or choose to ignore things stated in the thread. My mentioning wonderwoman speed in bracket was simply me alluding to her lack of speed in direct physical combat with other beings. In this thread it was clearly stated neither of them could use superspeed, so i fail to understand why it seems to be your main argument. As i said without speed she is NOT putting the lasso on juggernaut easily and will thus get stomped. Supes will also meet his end against the hulk because of the same reason( no speed). Is that so hard to understand

Defintely stops at 2.

(TC, team 2 should be at least at 6.)

Originally posted by fangirl101
You clearly have no understanding of how much faster wonder woman and superman are than the marvel team.

There is NO speed advantages for either Superman or Wonderwoman here....which is why they easily get stopped at 2.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Thankyou for making it totally obvious that you have comprehension problems or choose to ignore things stated in the thread. My mentioning wonderwoman speed in bracket was simply me alluding to her lack of speed in direct physical combat with other beings. In this thread it was clearly stated neither of them could use superspeed, so i fail to understand why it seems to be your main argument. As i said without speed she is NOT putting the lasso on juggernaut easily and will thus get stomped. Supes will also meet his end against the hulk because of the same reason( no speed). Is that so hard to understand

Without speed she simply uses the lasso for what it is, a lasso and tosses it around Juggernauts big slow ass. Even without super speed, both of them are still faster than the big lumbering brutes that are the Hulk and Juggernaut. Once the lasso TOUCHES Juggernaut, he's rendered inert. You have failed your exam. Go study DC characters more. The Hulk and Lobo Are quite interchangeable. Except Lobo is a far better fighter. Superman simply punches Hulk off world like he did Lobo. Next.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Without speed she simply uses the lasso for what it is, a lasso and tosses it around Juggernauts big slow ass. Even without super speed, both of them are still faster than the big lumbering brutes that are the Hulk and Juggernaut. Once the lasso TOUCHES Juggernaut, he's rendered inert. You have failed your exam. Go study DC characters more. The Hulk and Lobo Are quite interchangeable. Except Lobo is a far better fighter. Superman simply punches Hulk off world like he did Lobo. Next.

im actually not sure the lasso will work on juggs, can it control his mind if hes wearing the helmet?

Originally posted by jalek moye
im actually not sure the lasso will work on juggs, can it control his mind if hes wearing the helmet?

It's more than a mind control thing. It's a will power thing too. As soon as it touches you, your will is subject to wondy's. If you are in a mental trap, then it instantly brings you out. It is an amazing plot device.

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
stopped at 2

btw, would team 1 actually make supes stronger?

Maybe. You sure got me thinking there.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Without speed she simply uses the lasso for what it is, a lasso and tosses it around Juggernauts big slow ass. Even without super speed, both of them are still faster than the big lumbering brutes that are the Hulk and Juggernaut. Once the lasso TOUCHES Juggernaut, he's rendered inert. You have failed your exam. Go study DC characters more. The Hulk and Lobo Are quite interchangeable. Except Lobo is a far better fighter. Superman simply punches Hulk off world like he did Lobo. Next.

You are simply ridiculous and you have proven it time and time again and you have decided to make it clear YET AGAIN!!. How can you prove that wonderwomans lasso can stop the juggernaut?
Both are enchanted and juggeranuts enchantment staes that nothing can stop him. The only way for wonderwoman to stop him would be if her lassos enchantment supercedes that of Juggernaut. And now about the speed thing superman and wonderwoman will be WITHOUT there superspeed. Can u evn read? What proof do u have that superman is faster than the hulk without his superspeed? The hulk speed and refelxes are certainly superior to that of normal humans and can be labeled SUPERHUMAN in there own right. How can supermans speed be greater than the speed of the hulk if it is NO LONGER SUPERSPEED? The same goes for wonderwoman. As ive said b4 u hardly read what u write b4 u post. As for the hulk lobo thing, it is obvious there dat u are trying to b as ridiculous as possible. You say that hulk and lobo are interchangeable and superman and use that to justify ur reasons for superman being able to punch him to the moon or wherever. You make it sound like that is one of supermans powers: the ability to punch people into space. Yet u forget that he was able to do that simply because of his strength and Lobos relative weight. Though this in reality makes sense it is seriously flawed comic wise. If we are to use such logic evn the thing should be able to punch hulk into space. Heck in any fight between Class 100s the first person to punch will be the winner because they all have the strength to send each other into orbit. Unfortunately for you at least in Marvel this does not happen. You know why? Because Class 100 level characters are able to use their strength to stop themselves from being hit into orbit after evry punch. You say hulk and lobo are interchangeable( which they are not)? Well superman and just about evry other class 100 character are interchangeable in the sense that they all have the strength to send another Class 100 into orbit. But the hulk has bin punched REPEATEDLY by numerous class 100+ charcters WITHOUT being put into orbit. Superman punching him off world is stupid in this scenario evn for you . Superman goes down to hulk as he will have to slug it out to take hulk out and that will be the end for him. Heck ive not evn considered Namor and Ms Marvel in this fight. Superman and wonderwoman stand little or no chance at all.

Funny how u talk about exams but from your level of reasoning i wonder if uve past one in in ur entire LIFE.

Originally posted by fangirl101
It's more than a mind control thing. It's a will power thing too. As soon as it touches you, your will is subject to wondy's. If you are in a mental trap, then it instantly brings you out. It is an amazing plot device.

Other people have been able to resist it and force fields have stopped it, it's not like it's the most powerful object in all of creation and instantly trumps every power of any other character, with with all dissenting opinion banned. There's nothing to say it would work at all on Juggernaut or even touch him given his force field and resistance to high level magic. Some things in these fights can be argued with a bit of logic involved but this one just comes down to one opinion against another.

But it doesn't say no BFR so with that the duo might make it to 5.

Can Supes hurt the Hulk with Heat Vision?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
You are simply ridiculous and you have proven it time and time again and you have decided to make it clear YET AGAIN!!. How can you prove that wonderwomans lasso can stop the juggernaut?
Both are enchanted and juggeranuts enchantment staes that nothing can stop him. The only way for wonderwoman to stop him would be if her lassos enchantment supercedes that of Juggernaut. And now about the speed thing superman and wonderwoman will be WITHOUT there superspeed. Can u evn read? What proof do u have that superman is faster than the hulk without his superspeed? The hulk speed and refelxes are certainly superior to that of normal humans and can be labeled SUPERHUMAN in there own right. How can supermans speed be greater than the speed of the hulk if it is NO LONGER SUPERSPEED? The same goes for wonderwoman. As ive said b4 u hardly read what u write b4 u post. As for the hulk lobo thing, it is obvious there dat u are trying to b as ridiculous as possible. You say that hulk and lobo are interchangeable and superman and use that to justify ur reasons for superman being able to punch him to the moon or wherever. You make it sound like that is one of supermans powers: the ability to punch people into space. Yet u forget that he was able to do that simply because of his strength and Lobos relative weight. Though this in reality makes sense it is seriously flawed comic wise. If we are to use such logic evn the thing should be able to punch hulk into space. Heck in any fight between Class 100s the first person to punch will be the winner because they all have the strength to send each other into orbit. Unfortunately for you at least in Marvel this does not happen. You know why? Because Class 100 level characters are able to use their strength to stop themselves from being hit into orbit after evry punch. You say hulk and lobo are interchangeable( which they are not)? Well superman and just about evry other class 100 character are interchangeable in the sense that they all have the strength to send another Class 100 into orbit. But the hulk has bin punched REPEATEDLY by numerous class 100+ charcters WITHOUT being put into orbit. Superman punching him off world is stupid in this scenario evn for you . Superman goes down to hulk as he will have to slug it out to take hulk out and that will be the end for him. Heck ive not evn considered Namor and Ms Marvel in this fight. Superman and wonderwoman stand little or no chance at all.

Funny how u talk about exams but from your level of reasoning i wonder if uve past one in in ur entire LIFE.
Bias Much. Other Class 100 characters haven't punched anyone off world as Superman has as a battle tactic have they? And Yes Wonder Woman's Lasso Can Stop the Juggernaut. Unless you can prove that he's going to break it or over come it's enchantment. It has stopped Mightier beings than he.

Originally posted by Placidity
Can Supes hurt the Hulk with Heat Vision?

No. Hulk's Durability and Regen counter any effects. It's even been been tried by Gladiator's whos HV is hotter than the core of our sun.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
No. Hulk's Durability and Regen counter any effects. It's even been been tried by Gladiator's whos HV is hotter than the core of our sun.
Superman's Heat vision has powered the engines of warworld. And One Shotted Despero. And Stalemated the Omega beams. I'd say his heat vision is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gladiator's.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman's Heat vision has powered the engines of warworld. And One Shotted Despero. And Stalemated the Omega beams. I'd say his heat vision is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gladiator's.

hulk is immune to heat damge. plus he has deadpool level regen so it really wouldnt matter anyway

Originally posted by jalek moye
hulk is immune to heat damge. plus he has deadpool level regen so it really wouldnt matter anyway

And I'm just sure he could just survive the Omega Beams too, because, you know, he's just ****ing unbeatable.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And I'm just sure he could just survive the Omega Beams too, because, you know, he's just ****ing unbeatable.
well if the omega beam generates most of its power from heat then yea.

supermans heat vision doesnt work because its mostly heat

Originally posted by jalek moye
hulk is immune to heat damge. plus he has deadpool level regen so it really wouldnt matter anyway

Hulk can still be KOed, that's enough for the team to win.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hulk can still be KOed, that's enough for the team to win.
yea but not by heat vision heat vison im not arguing that they can ko him.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Bias Much. Other Class 100 characters haven't punched anyone off world as Superman has as a battle tactic have they? And Yes Wonder Woman's Lasso Can Stop the Juggernaut. Unless you can prove that he's going to break it or over come it's enchantment. It has stopped Mightier beings than he.

Frankly your inability to reason baffles me. You calling me biased is just laughable. SS has punched beings across continents. Onslaught has also done the same. Yet hulk has taken punches from both WITHOUT travelling across the world. Why do you think that is? IT IS BECAUSE THE HULK AND OTHER CLASS 100 CHARCTERS ARE ABLE TO USE THERE IMMENSE STRENGTH TO STOP THEMSELVES FROM FLYING SO FAR!!! As I said going by normal logic ANY class hundred Charcter can use this battle tactic of punching people into orbit or across the world. Have you ever noticed the difference between when hulk punches Luke cage and when hulk punches Juggernaut? When he punches jugs even with jugs relative weight, jugs is not sent flying miles away but when hulk punches luke cage he gets launched. Why do you think this is? Considering both of their relative weights BOTH of them should be sent miles away. THE REASON is because of their strength level. Jugs who is near hulks strength level does NOT get launched because he has the strength to prevent it. Luke cage on the other hand does not have the strength to do so. GET IT?????????? Superman might have punched Lobo off world but he has fought many other Class 100s of similar weight and size, hitting them with similar punches without them without them going off world. Now unless you can somehow prove that superman has a sort of special skill which enables him to punch people off the planet( I wud not put it past u to actually try) then u should drop the issue. He did it in that instance bcuz it was required of the story, nothing more.

Next for WW to stop juggernaut would mean that her lassos enchantment
supercedes that of juggernaut. Can u prove that? If not there is no basis for saying she can stop him. Which of the mightier beings than jugs that her lasso has stopped have a magical enchantment that makes them unstoppable? She is NOT hurting/stopping him at all.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And I'm just sure he could just survive the Omega Beams too, because, you know, he's just ****ing unbeatable.

For heavens sake stop overrating supes heat vision, it is not evn comparbale to the Omega beams and evn u know that. Supes is not taking down WWH with heatvision.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Frankly your inability to reason baffles me. You calling me biased is just laughable. SS has punched beings across continents. Onslaught has also done the same. Yet hulk has taken punches from both WITHOUT travelling across the world. Why do you think that is? IT IS BECAUSE THE HULK AND OTHER CLASS 100 CHARCTERS ARE ABLE TO USE THERE IMMENSE STRENGTH TO STOP THEMSELVES FROM FLYING SO FAR!!! As I said going by normal logic ANY class hundred Charcter can use this battle tactic of punching people into orbit or across the world. Have you ever noticed the difference between when hulk punches Luke cage and when hulk punches Juggernaut? When he punches jugs even with jugs relative weight, jugs is not sent flying miles away but when hulk punches luke cage he gets launched. Why do you think this is? Considering both of their relative weights BOTH of them should be sent miles away. THE REASON is because of their strength level. Jugs who is near hulks strength level does NOT get launched because he has the strength to prevent it. Luke cage on the other hand does not have the strength to do so. GET IT?????????? Superman might have punched Lobo off world but he has fought many other Class 100s of similar weight and size, hitting them with similar punches without them without them going off world. Now unless you can somehow prove that superman has a sort of special skill which enables him to punch people off the planet( I wud not put it past u to actually try) then u should drop the issue. He did it in that instance bcuz it was required of the story, nothing more.

Next for WW to stop juggernaut would mean that her lassos enchantment
supercedes that of juggernaut. Can u prove that? If not there is no basis for saying she can stop him. Which of the mightier beings than jugs that her lasso has stopped have a magical enchantment that makes them unstoppable? She is NOT hurting/stopping him at all.

You obviously don't read Wondy Much. Her lasso has pwned Hectate who had a measure of ultimate power. It has pwned the grand master. It has also immobilized Amazo. All of whom are greater than Juggy.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Juggernaut is rendered immobile with the lasso. Wondy takes out Namor and ms. marvel. Superman kils hulk.



WW wont get a chance to hit juggy with the lasso they will be excpecting that. And namor is alot stronger then you give him credit. nah the 4 on 2 is to much without superspeed it aint happening.

Originally posted by zeel
WW wont get a chance to hit juggy with the lasso they will be excpecting that. And namor is alot stronger then you give him credit. nah the 4 on 2 is to much without superspeed it aint happening.

Wonder Woman is more skilled than everyone on Team 2. She alone has taken on an entire island of soldiers all with her level of strength and durability. I didn't see her using superspeed, but rather agility, and skill. A well placed Blow to namor would take him out quickly. Superman would have to bfr the hulk and juggs. maybe t-vo one of them.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Wonder Woman is more skilled than everyone on Team 2. She alone has taken on an entire island of soldiers all with her level of strength and durability. I didn't see her using superspeed, but rather agility, and skill. A well placed Blow to namor would take him out quickly. Superman would have to bfr the hulk and juggs. maybe t-vo one of them.


I completely agree with you when you say WW is more skilled then anyone in group 2.


Supes and WW still loose.

Originally posted by fangirl101
You obviously don't read Wondy Much. Her lasso has pwned Hectate who had a measure of ultimate power. It has pwned the grand master. It has also immobilized Amazo. All of whom are greater than Juggy.

Sigh. As i said it DOES NOT matter whether all of the above mentioned people are greater than juggernaut. What i asked is for you to provide proof that any of them are greater than juggernaut in terms of being UNSTOPPABLE. Juggernauts whole enchantment is that he is UNSTOPPABLE and so whether or not you are greater than in totality more powerful than he is is irrelevant in this case. For instance the silver surfer is overall more powerful than jugs but can still be stopped physically. The same goes for thor. Heck evn current thor can be stopped physically while juggernaut CANT. Current thor is however considerably more powerful than jugs overall.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Sigh. As i said it DOES NOT matter whether all of the above mentioned people are greater than juggernaut. What i asked is for you to provide proof that any of them are greater than juggernaut in terms of being UNSTOPPABLE. Juggernauts whole enchantment is that he is UNSTOPPABLE and so whether or not you are greater than in totality more powerful than he is is irrelevant in this case. For instance the silver surfer is overall more powerful than jugs but can still be stopped physically. The same goes for thor. Heck evn current thor can be stopped physically while juggernaut CANT. Current thor is however considerably more powerful than jugs overall.

What the HELL!! It doesn't matter how unstoppable you think he is. If he is tied up in the lasso, He won't be able to break it. He's so big that the lasso would bind him easily. She wouldn't even need Superspeed because she's still faster than him with just her regular speed and agility.

Originally posted by fangirl101
What the HELL!! It doesn't matter how unstoppable you think he is. If he is tied up in the lasso, He won't be able to break it. He's so big that the lasso would bind him easily. She wouldn't even need Superspeed because she's still faster than him with just her regular speed and agility.

Now we have a problem. You see wonderwomans lasso has an enchantment that makes it unbreakable while Juggernaut has an enchantment by Cyttorak that makes him unstoppable by any physical force. Wonderwoman lasso howver does qulaify as a physical force. Therefore for wonderwoman to stop him her lassos enchantment would neccessarily have to be SUPERIOR to juggernauts. This is what YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND!!!

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Now we have a problem. You see wonderwomans lasso has an enchantment that makes it unbreakable while Juggernaut has an enchantment by Cyttorak that makes him unstoppable by any physical force. Wonderwoman lasso howver does qulaify as a physical force. Therefore for wonderwoman to stop him her lassos enchantment would neccessarily have to be SUPERIOR to juggernauts. This is what YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND!!!

Wonder Woman's lasso's enchantment is bound by Universal Truth. Unless Truth itself is perverted, then it's enchantment cannot be broken. Juggy's enchantment is by a skyfather.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Wonder Woman's lasso's enchantment is bound by Universal Truth. Unless Truth itself is perverted, then it's enchantment cannot be broken. Juggy's enchantment is by a skyfather.

No, it isn't some all-powerful unbeatable object. It doesn't just trump every other character on your say-so. People have resisted it.

After being tied up, Amazo kept fighting until he simply shrunk out of the lasso, drained WW's power and then KO'd her.

Titus was caught in the lasso, lied while under its influence (when asked who he was, he answered "I am the lord god of this sphere" - surely not the truth), then ripped it off himself, tied WW up with it and KO'd her.

There have been a few others too.

This is one uber magic against another, not even from the same universe, both of which have crazy feats. There is no way to argue something like this definitively. You just need to accept that other people are going to have different opinions than you on this one and stop telling everyone that they're wrong.

While Wonderwoman should be able to effectively entangle Juggernaut with her lasso, she is still unable to do any harm to him whatsoever. This may buy some time for her to take on the other 3, but Juggernaut is more can capable of escaping it.

Originally posted by basilisk
No, it isn't some all-powerful unbeatable object. It doesn't just trump every other character on your say-so. People have resisted it.

After being tied up, Amazo kept fighting until he simply shrunk out of the lasso, drained WW's power and then KO'd her.

Titus was caught in the lasso, lied while under its influence (when asked who he was, he answered "I am the lord god of this sphere" - surely not the truth), then ripped it off himself, tied WW up with it and KO'd her.

There have been a few others too.

This is one uber magic against another, not even from the same universe, both of which have crazy feats. There is no way to argue something like this definitively. You just need to accept that other people are going to have different opinions than you on this one and stop telling everyone that they're wrong.

Exactly what ive bin trying to say, you cant really argue about both their magic considering both are from different universes where different concepts apply.

Originally posted by basilisk
No, it isn't some all-powerful unbeatable object. It doesn't just trump every other character on your say-so. People have resisted it.

After being tied up, Amazo kept fighting until he simply shrunk out of the lasso, drained WW's power and then KO'd her.

Titus was caught in the lasso, lied while under its influence (when asked who he was, he answered "I am the lord god of this sphere" - surely not the truth), then ripped it off himself, tied WW up with it and KO'd her.

There have been a few others too.

This is one uber magic against another, not even from the same universe, both of which have crazy feats. There is no way to argue something like this definitively. You just need to accept that other people are going to have different opinions than you on this one and stop telling everyone that they're wrong.

UM, Titus was A GOD. And he was telling the truth of the amazonian Prophecy. And he was only able to over come diana when she allowed him to speak. DID YOU MISS THAT!! HE EVEN SAID that she shouldn't have allowed him the opportunity to speak. I GUESS YOU MISSED THAT. Amazo couldn't break the lasso so he had to shrink to get out of it. The Juggernaut cannot do that. Amazo is also a machine so it's properties wont' work on him, that is why she used it to tie him up in a binding knot. Thanks.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Exactly what ive bin trying to say, you cant really argue about both their magic considering both are from different universes where different concepts apply.

Then Thor's God blast won't do shit to any DC character. Bascially this is what you are saying. Why argue when different universes have different Concepts.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Then Thor's God blast won't do shit to any DC character. Bascially this is what you are saying. Why argue when different universes have different Concepts.

Correct.

Alot of circular arguments going on in this thread, surely the one question and answer that can solve it falls to the OP, Where does the fight take place.? Its a crossover - so WHO has crossed over?

Originally posted by Juk3n Correct.Alot of circular arguments going on in this thread, surely the one question and answer that can solve it falls to the OP, Where does the fight take place.? Its a crossover - so WHO has crossed over? The Forum Rules say that all fights are in a neutral zone unless specified.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Then Thor's God blast won't do shit to any DC character. Bascially this is what you are saying. Why argue when different universes have different Concepts.

You obviously canmt comprehend ANYTHING AT ALL!!. How can u compare thors Godblast with a magical enchantment? What kind of retarded analogy is that? My statement was addressing the issue of two enchantments that cancel each other out( Wonderwomans lasso and jughs enchantment), and the measures that would have to be taken to break or overcome the enchantments. Because we have magic from two different universes it will be difficult to compare them considering that in both their respective universes, these enchantments have a given level of authority and supremacy. Where does " the concept of Universal Truth" place on the Marvel authority scale? How would we then compare it to the power of sombody like Cyttorrak? For example if a high level being in Marvel got trapped in the lasso would the enchantment which says that the lasso cant break if there is truth in the universe still apply? Or would the persons power and authority supercede such an enchantment. THESE ARE QUESTIONS WHICH WE CANT DEFINITIVELY ANSWER WITHOUT ENTERING INTO PURE SPECULATION. Your example of thors Godblast is poor EVN FOR YOU!! Thors Godblast is NOT an enchantment that specifies so and so, IT is SIMPLY A PHYSICAL ATTACK USING MAGICAL ENRGY!!! IT has NOTHING TO DO WITH MAGICAL ENCHANTMENTS BACKED BY SPECIFIC POWERS!!!. I have said this times without number TRY TO READ BEFORE YOU POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ultimatethor
You obviously canmt comprehend ANYTHING AT ALL!!. How can u compare thors Godblast with a magical enchantment? What kind of retarded analogy is that? My statement was addressing the issue of two enchantments that cancel each other out( Wonderwomans lasso and jughs enchantment), and the measures that would have to be taken to break or overcome the enchantments. Because we have magic from two different universes it will be difficult to compare them considering that in both their respective universes, these enchantments have a given level of authority and supremacy. Where does " the concept of Universal Truth" place on the Marvel authority scale? How would we then compare it to the power of sombody like Cyttorrak? For example if a high level being in Marvel got trapped in the lasso would the enchantment which says that the lasso cant break if there is truth in the universe still apply? Or would the persons power and authority supercede such an enchantment. THESE ARE QUESTIONS WHICH WE CANT DEFINITIVELY ANSWER WITHOUT ENTERING INTO PURE SPECULATION. Your example of thors Godblast is poor EVN FOR YOU!! Thors Godblast is NOT an enchantment that specifies so and so, IT is SIMPLY A PHYSICAL ATTACK USING MAGICAL ENRGY!!! IT has NOTHING TO DO WITH MAGICAL ENCHANTMENTS BACKED BY SPECIFIC POWERS!!!. I have said this times without number TRY TO READ BEFORE YOU POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Um, I gave examples of people who were above Juggernaut and probably at cyttorak level. you chose to ignore those examples.

Originally posted by fangirl101
What the HELL!! It doesn't matter how unstoppable you think he is. If he is tied up in the lasso, He won't be able to break it. He's so big that the lasso would bind him easily. She wouldn't even need Superspeed because she's still faster than him with just her regular speed and agility.



WW underesitmates juggy throws her lasso and misses and rakes in a tree branch!


The lasso reminds me of the speedblitzing arguments. Its a lame excuse to rake in a win. Half the time WW dont need her lasso shes tough as nails and so is supes bu with out their super speed this is o much.



Actually would her lasso even work on juggernut i have heard some people saying it wouldnt. Would be interesting to see.

Originally posted by Placidity
Can Supes hurt the Hulk with Heat Vision?


i think supes heat vision is overrated sometimes its all powerfull , then next fight its nothing more then a irratant.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Bias Much. Other Class 100 characters haven't punched anyone off world as Superman has as a battle tactic have they? And Yes Wonder Woman's Lasso Can Stop the Juggernaut. Unless you can prove that he's going to break it or over come it's enchantment. It has stopped Mightier beings than he.

Fangirl its not up to someone to prove juggernut can resist wonderwomans magic lasso, its up to you to prove she can get it on him and make it work. Alot of people think it wont. You brought up the lasso ordeal now you need to prove it can be done.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Then Thor's God blast won't do shit to any DC character. Bascially this is what you are saying. Why argue when different universes have different Concepts.

LOl dang girl you need to calm down this is only comics lol. For what its worth if the lasso works and downs juggs supes and WW can prolly have a chane at it but the lasso thing must work without the lasso supes and WW will just get beat down but juggs and hulk.


Superman may have more physical power then juggs but juggs stamina is far greater. he will fight on and on and on and on .............

Juggernaut is to weak to even hurt WW or Superman, Superman and WW have to overcome Juggs "invulnerability", he is an unstoppable plot device, which was stopped by War Hulk. Hm, I dunno but Juggs is overrated here .

Originally posted by fangirl101
Then Thor's God blast won't do shit to any DC character. Bascially this is what you are saying.

No, that is what you're saying. Nobody else came to that conclusion.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Why argue when different universes have different Concepts.

You can argue with to some extent about what a god blast might do based on the amount of damage it has done to high durability characters compared to what other attacks have done to those characters. You can argue that Thor or Superman might be stronger based on comparing lifting feats etc. But what we are talking about here is more like the old unstoppable force meets immovable object problem - they are both plot devices in their own right and there is nothing to say one is over the other.


Originally posted by fangirl101
UM, Titus was A GOD. And he was telling the truth of the amazonian Prophecy. And he was only able to over come diana when she allowed him to speak. DID YOU MISS THAT!! HE EVEN SAID that she shouldn't have allowed him the opportunity to speak. I GUESS YOU MISSED THAT.


YOUR CAPS LOCK IS ON DID YOU MISS THAT. That was actually the second time he broke free of the lasso, when he threw it off and said he wasn't hers to command. I was quoting from the first time. I guess you missed that. It was in a different issue.

The first time he just pulled it off and knocked her out cold. And he was not the "lord god" of earth, regardless of some old prophecy (which WW admitted she had already interpreted incorrectly before anyway - she's quite superstitious) - he just wanted to be. He didn't tell the truth while under the lasso and he broke free.

And so what he claimed he's a "god", like Cyttorak, Thor, and dozens of other beings of great power who like to set themselves up as gods. He's just another one of those uber-powerful alien characters. It just means that if you have enough power like Titus, or perhaps Cyttorak, you can override the lasso.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Amazo couldn't break the lasso so he had to shrink to get out of it. The Juggernaut cannot do that. Amazo is also a machine so it's properties wont' work on him, that is why she used it to tie him up in a binding knot. Thanks.

That's fair.

Look you like WW and want her to win, fine. She might well win through BFR. The lasso might or might not work. But there isn't any proof regarding which crazy level enchantment wins here. There is only personal opinion and you need to accept that some other people are going to disagree with you.

Originally posted by basilisk
No, that is what you're saying. Nobody else came to that conclusion.



You can argue with to some extent about what a god blast might do based on the amount of damage it has done to high durability characters compared to what other attacks have done to those characters. You can argue that Thor or Superman might be stronger based on comparing lifting feats etc. But what we are talking about here is more like the old unstoppable force meets immovable object problem - they are both plot devices in their own right and there is nothing to say one is over the other.




YOUR CAPS LOCK IS ON DID YOU MISS THAT. That was actually the second time he broke free of the lasso, when he threw it off and said he wasn't hers to command. I was quoting from the first time. I guess you missed that. It was in a different issue.

The first time he just pulled it off and knocked her out cold. And he was not the "lord god" of earth, regardless of some old prophecy (which WW admitted she had already interpreted incorrectly before anyway - she's quite superstitious) - he just wanted to be. He didn't tell the truth while under the lasso and he broke free.

And so what he claimed he's a "god", like Cyttorak, Thor, and dozens of other beings of great power who like to set themselves up as gods. He's just another one of those uber-powerful alien characters. It just means that if you have enough power like Titus, or perhaps Cyttorak, you can override the lasso.



That's fair.

Look you like WW and want her to win, fine. She might well win through BFR. The lasso might or might not work. But there isn't any proof regarding which crazy level enchantment wins here. There is only personal opinion and you need to accept that some other people are going to disagree with you.
In the end, Juggs still can't break the lasso. Which is the point. Once he's tied up he wont' be able to move.

fangirl you make some of the most craziest point I have seen on this thread and your love for dc (basically superman and wonderwoman) are ridiculous. Theres nothing that superman could do to juggernaut or the hulk. Without there speed juggernaut and hulk win 10/10. I can actually pull up some scans where juggernaut have blitzed characters, hell in access juggernaut blitzed wonderwoman (even though its a crossover).

Originally posted by carver9
fangirl you make some of the most craziest point I have seen on this thread and your love for dc (basically superman and wonderwoman) are ridiculous. Theres nothing that superman could do to juggernaut or the hulk. Without there speed juggernaut and hulk win 10/10. I can actually pull up some scans where juggernaut have blitzed characters, hell in access juggernaut blitzed wonderwoman (even though its a crossover).

carver, any dc bias fangirl has is balanced out by your anti superman stance, so please, keep the personal stuff out of it...

srug

Originally posted by carver9
fangirl you make some of the most craziest point I have seen on this thread and your love for dc (basically superman and wonderwoman) are ridiculous. Theres nothing that superman could do to juggernaut or the hulk. Without there speed juggernaut and hulk win 10/10. I can actually pull up some scans where juggernaut have blitzed characters, hell in access juggernaut blitzed wonderwoman (even though its a crossover).
Love for Superman? You have me confused.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Um, I gave examples of people who were above Juggernaut and probably at cyttorak level. you chose to ignore those examples.

Once more ur not understanding me. The examples you gave were of people in the DCU who her lasso has been able to subdue yes( doubt if any are on Cytooraks level though). HOWEVER the problem here is that the evn if there is anyone on Cyttoraks level there the lasso was able to subdue them because in THAT UNIVERSE the enchantment based on universal truth supercedes their power. Universal truth therefore carries MORE authority than they do and hence an enchantment bound by it will be superior to them. IN MARVEL though there is NO SUCH CONCEPT. Cyttorak is a god of physical power and hence he has a degree of authority over that area. He is the source of the enchantments that physically altered cain marko. Now would his power be superceded by an enchantment based on a concept that DOES NOT EXIST in his UNIVERSE? Does wonderwomans enchantment suddenly NEGATE the Cyttoraks authority? It can be related to thor and Captain marvel. Thor is the god of thunder and he has shown that he can exercise his control over evn high level beings like ego the living planet. Howeevr does thors authority as god of thunder neccessarily mean that he has the ability to negate captain marvels magic lightning?
We dont know because captain marvel lightning comes from an enchantment from a being in an entirely different universe whose authority cannot be relaated to thors.

It is also similar to speedforce Power cosmic debate. The speed force is the supreme force that controls kinetic enrgy in the DCU. It is where flash gets his abilities to steal speed from. Now just because it is in the DCU does not mean that in a forum fight flash cant steal speed from Marvel characters. Flash can certainly speed from MOST Marvel Charcters. The problem comes when he tries to steal speed from Marvel characters whose speed is granted and controlled by a specific force or authority within the MU. Lets take the silver surfer. He gets ALL his bodily enrgies( including kinetic enrgy) from the power cosmic. Now the PC is made up of the ambient enrgies that sustain the Universe. The silver surfer therefore can replenish his bodily enrgies by absorbing cosmic rays from anywhere in the cosmos. The Flash howver can control kinetic enrgy and so the argument could be made that because the flash can manipulate the speedforce, he should be able to control silver surfers kinetic enrgy afterall he HAS done it against greater beings. A counter argument can then be made for the silver surfer that although the flash can control KE, all of SS bodily enrgies come from the Power cosmic and it has granted him a degree of control over them. We are then faced with the question of the power cosmic vs the speedforce. Note that arguments such as the flash has stolen speed from beings greater than SS fails here because although those beings may b more powerful than SS, they still fall under the authority of the speedforce when it comes to KE as it is supreme in that department in the DCU. The flash who manipulates the speed force can therefore exert its authority in that area. The Power cosmic however DOES NOT fall under the authority of the speed force as its in a different universe and hence we cannot determine where in terms of authority over the silver surfers KE the speedforce would place compared to it if they were in the same universe. Note once again that arguments that say that the silver surfer has had his enrgy absorbed before fail also because those that have absorbed his enrgy have been those who in comparison to him have exercised greater authority or control over his enrgy than he himself did with his Power cosmic. These people however are in the same universe as he is and therefore such a comparison was made possible. Therefore in order for the surfers speed to be stolen we would have to determine whether or not the speedforce would grant flash control over the KE of another being whose KE is regulated and controlled by another force not under the authority of the speedforce.

Now it should also be noted that although thor is similar to the surfer in the sense that his bodily enrgies are granted and regulated by a specific source which is the Odinforce, his speed can be stolen because he DOES NOT have control over his bodily enrgies like the surfer does. Hence the reason classic thor CANNOT augment specific attributes of himself at will like the surfer can. However people with higher levels of Odin force control like Odin and kingthor can do this and hence have similar control to the silver surfer.

To cut the EXTREMELY long story short, due to the fact that both wondy and jugs enchantments are based on distinct authorities in different universes, we simply cannot ascertain which takes precedence due to the fact that the battle takes place in a neutral world.

Originally posted by Raoul
carver, any dc bias fangirl has is balanced out by your anti superman stance, so please, keep the personal stuff out of it...

srug

Understood but I have no hate for superman, when someone say that superman can blitz at light speed I ask for proof, when someone say that superman can punch someone a million times before they react I ask for proof of this.

They fail to show proof so I continue to say it. Its not just superman, I ask for the same proof about wonderwoman and martial manhunter.

Originally posted by fangirl101
In the end, Juggs still can't break the lasso. Which is the point. Once he's tied up he wont' be able to move.

Maybe. Or maybe it would just end up like WW's fights against Titus and Konvict, where she hasn't been able to do that and just ends up defeated.

Originally posted by carver9
Understood but I have no hate for superman, when someone say that superman can blitz at light speed I ask for proof, when someone say that superman can punch someone a million times before they react I ask for proof of this.

They fail to show proof so I continue to say it. Its not just superman, I ask for the same proof about wonderwoman and martial manhunter.

but never juggernaut or hulk?