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interesting article.

i've volunteered at a hospital for many years and currently work at a medical clinic, and these situations take place time to time.

source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070507/od_nm/britain_spree_odd_dc_1



and on the note of cancer, i remember 2 patients who were both diagnosed with benign (doctors said to both patients that it will soon be malignant) breast cancer. the first patient began chemotherapy as soon as possible, and the patient died within 6 years. (these two patients were same age, were diagnosed around the same time, had same background/nationality and nutrition-wise both were healthy) the other patient decided that time was up and death was just around the corner. the patient did not have any chemotherapy. ironically, that patient is still living.

I kinda dont blame the guy.

He should find a good lawyer and sue for medical malpractice. Of all cancers, pancreatic cancer is almost always a death sentance, and I'm sure that the diagnosis caused a lot of stress for him and his friends and family.

Honestly, how the hell does someone **** that up?

-----

Q: What's the difference between God and doctors?

A: God doesnt think he's a doctor.

i dont blame the guy either, but honestly, doctors don't cure, they diagnose and try to treat. when diagnosing, you keep in mind an alternatative diagnosis.

i remember a few years back this nurse told me physicians tend to make misdiagnosis on cancers over 20% of the time. that was a few years back, now i dont know the statistics.

I Also remember an M.D. once telling me, "See that patient with cancer? He's living on borrowed time." I asked him, who's time? The M.D. said "his". Hence, sue his ass ...

edit

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Honestly, how the hell does someone **** that up?


You apparently know SH*T about medicine.

We are doctors, not gods. We can be wrong. We're not to blame for someone's irrationalty.

This happens more often than you think. Doctors are not infallalbe. That doesn't mean we should lose our jobs over one faulty diagnosis (whcih isn't even the doctor's fault).

Originally posted by Alliance
You apparently know SH*T about medicine.



Apparently neither do those doctors.

Originally posted by KidRock
Apparently neither do those doctors. Hahaha, good one.

Originally posted by Alliance
You apparently know SH*T about medicine.

We are doctors, not gods. We can be wrong. We're not to blame for someone's irrationalty.

This happens more often than you think. Doctors are not infallalbe. That doesn't mean we should lose our jobs over one faulty diagnosis (whcih isn't even the doctor's fault).
maybe dude should have gotten a second opinion.

Am I the only person that read "If he can't get compensation, he is considering selling his house or suing the hospital that diagnosed him. The hospital has said that while it sympathizes with Brandrick, a review of his case showed no different diagnosis would have been made."?

Have another board of doctors review the case (without knowing the specifics, such as it really WASN'T cancer) and ask them to give a diagnosis. If the hospital was at fault and misdiagnosed him, then yes, he should be compensated. But if the mistake was one that was unavoidable then hey, I'm sorry buddy, but too bad. You're just out of luck.

Originally posted by Alliance
You apparently know SH*T about medicine.

We are doctors, not gods. We can be wrong. We're not to blame for someone's irrationalty.

This happens more often than you think. Doctors are not infallalbe. That doesn't mean we should lose our jobs over one faulty diagnosis (whcih isn't even the doctor's fault).
You're not a doctor.

maybe he is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
maybe he is. Maybe he is also God himself.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Maybe he is also God himself.
doubtful. I dont think god would waste his time here.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
doubtful. I dont think god would waste his time here. Well, but what you think hardly matters to God himself, now does it?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, but what you think hardly matters to God himself, now does it?
right back atcha.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Maybe he is also God himself.
He was born in 1986. He's 20. Definitely not a doctor.

Originally posted by Kinneary
He was born in 1986. He's 20. Definitely not a doctor.

Yeah, I know.

Originally posted by Kinneary
He was born in 1986. He's 20. Definitely not a doctor.
maybe he is a prodigy. like Doogie Howser and shit.

so i guess he planned on leaving his family to sort out his massive debt?

Originally posted by Schecter
so i guess he planned on leaving his family to sort out his massive debt?

Same point I would have made. What a dumbass.

Is it wrong to be on some-ones death because i'm sure this guys gonna kill himself.

Originally posted by KidRock
Apparently neither do those doctors.

That was funny.



I think the man deserves compensation.

So I think the root of all of this is that people in modern society put too much faith in the words of their doctors.

Epicurean Authority. It is a bad thing. Remember to question everything your doctor says to you, because when they leave the room after the checkup, they are looking up all the stuff you mentioned to them . And knowing is half the battle

Originally posted by inimalist
And knowing is half the battle

Ok Captain Planet

GI Joe

c'mon, that post was just dripping with moral proselytizing. If I didn't make a glib remark about it I would have completely left myself open to the flames of the peanut gallery

LOL, I agree with it though. I had to do it though. It was there!

but you failed. it was GI Joe *points and laughs*

Originally posted by Schecter
but you failed. it was GI Joe *points and laughs*

Captain Planet said that also silly man.

Originally posted by chithappens
Captain Planet said that also silly man.

wrong.

If no one has brought it up already, retard should have looked into a second, even third opinion.

Originally posted by Alliance
We are doctors, not gods.

Don't get ahead of yourself...you're just a college kid.

Originally posted by KidRock
Apparently neither do those doctors.



And I dont need to shit about medicine; its not my job. Its their job.

I expect doc's to know medicine, just like expect chefs to be able to cook, just like I expect mechanics to know how to fix a car, just like I expect tattoo artist to give tats, and carpenters to cut wood.

But modern medicine is really behind anyways. Polio was the last disease that was cured, which was in the 1950's. Pathetic. AIDS has been around for about 25 years, so what's taking the medical community so long to cure it? What are medical researchers doing; do they go to the lab, sit around all day and play cards and then go home? Seriously, what the hell is taking so long to find a cure.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And I dont need to shit about medicine; its not my job. Its their job.

I expect doc's to know medicine, just like expect chefs to be able to cook, just like I expect mechanics to know how to fix a car, just like I expect tattoo artist to give tats, and carpenters to cut wood.

But modern medicine is really behind anyways. Polio was the last disease that was cured, which was in the 1950's. Pathetic. AIDS has been around for about 25 years, so what's taking the medical community so long to cure it? What are medical researchers doing; do they go to the lab, sit around all day and play cards and then go home? Seriously, what the hell is taking so long to find a cure.

They haven't found the cure for the common cold yet either, "cures" don't come by easy, especially for viruses.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't get ahead of yourself...you're just a college kid.





And I dont need to shit about medicine; its not my job. Its their job.

I expect doc's to know medicine, just like expect chefs to be able to cook, just like I expect mechanics to know how to fix a car, just like I expect tattoo artist to give tats, and carpenters to cut wood.

But modern medicine is really behind anyways. Polio was the last disease that was cured, which was in the 1950's. Pathetic. AIDS has been around for about 25 years, so what's taking the medical community so long to cure it? What are medical researchers doing; do they go to the lab, sit around all day and play cards and then go home? Seriously, what the hell is taking so long to find a cure.

The human body is not x = x. Some symptoyms are similar among different problems.

At least look into the stuff first

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't get ahead of yourself...you're just a college kid.





And I dont need to shit about medicine; its not my job. Its their job.

I expect doc's to know medicine, just like expect chefs to be able to cook, just like I expect mechanics to know how to fix a car, just like I expect tattoo artist to give tats, and carpenters to cut wood.



I agree.

That's like saying a Cop shouldn't get in trouble for accidently shooting someone.

"Well... it was a mistake! Everybody makes mistakes!"

No.

That's why MD's have malpractice insurance

Didn't Queen Latifah starred in a movie involving this plot?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't get ahead of yourself...you're just a college kid.





And I dont need to shit about medicine; its not my job. Its their job.

I expect doc's to know medicine, just like expect chefs to be able to cook, just like I expect mechanics to know how to fix a car, just like I expect tattoo artist to give tats, and carpenters to cut wood.

But modern medicine is really behind anyways. Polio was the last disease that was cured, which was in the 1950's. Pathetic. AIDS has been around for about 25 years, so what's taking the medical community so long to cure it? What are medical researchers doing; do they go to the lab, sit around all day and play cards and then go home? Seriously, what the hell is taking so long to find a cure. The HIV virus is evolving, making it increasingly harder to cure.

Originally posted by Kinneary
You're not a doctor.

You're insight is blinding. I'm pre-med, will be accepted into med school this coming year and I have contact with the medical field on a daily basis, including medical ethics, and I work in the medical field.

So, you are correct, I'm not a doctor, but my opinion certainly has credentials to back it up, which is more than I can say for you.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And I dont need to shit about medicine; its not my job. Its their job.

I expect doc's to know medicine, just like expect chefs to be able to cook, just like I expect mechanics to know how to fix a car, just like I expect tattoo artist to give tats, and carpenters to cut wood.

But modern medicine is really behind anyways. Polio was the last disease that was cured, which was in the 1950's. Pathetic. AIDS has been around for about 25 years, so what's taking the medical community so long to cure it? What are medical researchers doing; do they go to the lab, sit around all day and play cards and then go home? Seriously, what the hell is taking so long to find a cure.

You know what? Piss off. You know shit about this and have no where near the ability to be informed enough discuss issues. Try to read a scientific paper, you'll probably wet your pants.

If you're so concerned about it, devote your life to science. What do you do to contribute? Sit there and whine. GET OFF YOUR FAT @SS AND DO RESEARCH THEN.

I don't work my @ss off every day to sit here and let some bum tell me I'm not working hard. You have NO appreciation for how complex these diseases are and research is making TREMENDOUS process in treating these diseases.

Then the worst part? You say IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT YOU KNOW SHIT? You're so ****ing ignorant, you don't even know how complex this stuff is. You can't get any EFFING dumber than that. So shove your words right back where they came from, out of your @ss.

You think medicine knows everything? Knows how to fix everything? Well you're f*cking wrong. Medicine isn't like fixing a car. A car has blueprints, everything is visible, easily replaceable and studied in complete detail. You're body is not at all like that. Medicine is like trying to fix a car that you don't know the make and model of in a light-less room with one finger and a Popsicle stick. We don't know how everything works and it can sometimes seem impossible to figure out. You try to manipulate you sub-cellular machinery without killing you or giving you the shits so you dehydrate and pass out. Its not like tightening a lug nut or checking to see if the gas tank is full.

Medical Tests CAN BE WRONG. Thats why we like to do them again if they're serious. The guy may have not taken that chance, and simply run away hysterically as most people who are diagnoses with cancer feel like doing? If a mechanic aligns your tires and they're not quite right, you don't ****ign sue them. No harm was done to the man. He was irrational. Thats not the doctor's problem. Thats not the hospital's problem. Thats this dude's problem.Originally posted by Secretus
That's why MD's have malpractice insurance

Thats why a lot of doctors are forced out of business.

Originally posted by ~Flamboyant~
The HIV virus is evolving, making it increasingly harder to cure.

THANK YOU. At least someone knows something.

So are you basically saying that Doctors are completely exempt from wrong if they f*ck up, simply because medical science is "complicated"?

Originally posted by Alliance
You know what? Piss off. You know shit about this and have no where near the ability to be informed enough discuss issues. Try to read a scientific paper, you'll probably wet your pants.

If you're so concerned about it, devote your life to science. What do you do to contribute? Sit there and whine. GET OFF YOUR FAT @SS AND DO RESEARCH THEN.

You're right; I don't know about medicine, and like I said; I dont need to. I have a job, I'm good at what I do, and I make bank doing it.

I'm not "so concerned", I stated a fact: "modern" medicine is behind. I dont care to read sicence papers, kid.

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't work my @ss off every day to sit here and let some bum tell me I'm not working hard. You have NO appreciation for how complex these diseases are and research is making TREMENDOUS process in treating these diseases.


You mean "progress"?

There hasnt been a disease cured in 50 years....yeah...thats tremendous progress.


Originally posted by Alliance
Thats not the doctor's problem.

Yes it is.

And stop sayin "we"; you're a college kid.

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
So are you basically saying that Doctors are completely exempt from wrong if they f*ck up, simply because medical science is "complicated"?

Yeah, pretty much.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Don't get ahead of yourself...you're just a college kid.





And I dont need to shit about medicine; its not my job. Its their job.

I expect doc's to know medicine, just like expect chefs to be able to cook, just like I expect mechanics to know how to fix a car, just like I expect tattoo artist to give tats, and carpenters to cut wood.

But modern medicine is really behind anyways. Polio was the last disease that was cured, which was in the 1950's. Pathetic. AIDS has been around for about 25 years, so what's taking the medical community so long to cure it? What are medical researchers doing; do they go to the lab, sit around all day and play cards and then go home? Seriously, what the hell is taking so long to find a cure.

That should go for Engineers too. They still haven't developed the Warp Drive. And for NASA people. They still haven't able to make unexplodable rockets 100% of the time. This also goes for the scientists. They haven't able to clone people yet.

Alright, enough of crack. Here's my opinion.

Modern Medicine ain't NOTING like mechanics or chefs. Theres so much damn stuff we don't know about our body, if they do, their characters in Star Trek. It's too damn complicated than cars. Like Alliance said, you have blueprints and guess what? WE MADE EM. Technically we didn't make our own bodies, so we don't have a blueprint for it. Go ask ANY professional doctor and ask em about advance stuff. "CAN YOU SHOW ME OUR NERVE MAPS?", "CAN YOU PREDICT IF I'M GONNA KILL SOMEONE IF I SHOW YOU PICTURE OF MY BRAIN!?!?" They'll say it's out of their leagues. Why? Its. Too. Damn. Complicated.

Not to mention, like Flambayont said, HIV evolves. HIV and other diseases are living things too, like how we evolved and gotten better immune system, and etc, so did HIV/Diseases.

In the end, what I'm trying to say is: Until you actually know what your talking about, don't say anything. I.e. I won't talk trash about building rockets or how I expect them, cause I don't know crap about it.

I apologize if I sounded like a retard. Cause I usaully do.

P.S: Quiero Mota, whats your job?

Originally posted by Violent K
P.S: Quiero Mota, whats your job?

I'm an auto-mechanic. Why?

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
So are you basically saying that Doctors are completely exempt from wrong if they f*ck up, simply because medical science is "complicated"? I never said anything like that. I said Queiro has intelligence issues when it comes to medicine.

"I'm really pleased that I've got a second chance in life... but if you haven't got no money after all this, which is my fault -- I spent it all -- they should pay something back." They guy admits its his own fault, but wants the hospital to pay for his mistakes?

The test was a ****-up. No question. However, details aren't given if the guy actually did the follow up he was supposed to. I'd be surprised if the hospital merely said..."You're going to die in a year, goodbye."

Even skimming over the details we don't know, there is no way the hospital is liable for his finnacial issues. If he had murdered 10 people he hated beacuse he thought he was going to die...thats no different, he's still liable for his own actions.

The only thing the hospital was liable for was the faulty test, whcih may simply have been a false positive. They HAPPEN. Further judgement on the hospitals actions would require information I don't have.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I'm an auto-mechanic. Why?

Can you please modify my car and turn it into a Warp-Speed car?

Originally posted by Violent K
Can you please modify my car and turn it into a Warp-Speed car?

What was the point of that?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
What was the point of that?

Can you do it or not?

Originally posted by Violent K
Can you do it or not?

No, Its impossible.

And even if it were possible, it would just be a luxury, unlike something necessary like a cure for a disease.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You're right; I don't know about medicine, and like I said; I dont need to. I have a job, I'm good at what I do, and I make bank doing it.

You need to if you want to f*cking judge it.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I'm not "so concerned", I stated a fact: "modern" medicine is behind. I dont care to read sicence papers, kid.

I don't understand how the most advanced medicine in history is behind. You don't care, you cant' understand. So quit judging things you know shit about.

I don't tell you how to fix cars, because I know shit about them. Changing my oil is like putting on a band-aid in medicine. Thats the depth of the knowledge we have of each others fields. So piss of and keep to your own, unless you'd care to join the field of medicine.

Because really, unless you understand a problem, you can't truly solve it. And you don't even come close to understanding.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
You mean "progress"?

There hasnt been a disease cured in 50 years....yeah...thats tremendous progress.

Sorry, I was unaware that we should be able to cure everything instantaneously. Its not like we're killing a bacterial infection, we're talking about problems that exist on the edge of our understanding.

So go learn something. People today don't survive cancer or live 25 years with HIV because they're special. They do so because medicine is making progress in treating these things.

What do you do, sit and turn a greasy wrench all day? Thats really helping society. YOu must be a bad mechanic because you haven't stopped cars from needing to be fixed (this is exactly the kind of crap you're giving me, see what bullsh*t it is?)

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And stop sayin "we"; you're a college kid. I wasn't referring to myself as a doctor, I was referring to myself as part of the medical community.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No, Its impossible.

And even if it were possible, it would just be a luxury, unlike something necessary like a cure for a disease.

Apparently you don't understand that CURES ARE luxuries. Hell, to most people, food is a luxury.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No, Its impossible.

And even if it were possible, it would just be a luxury, unlike something necessary like a cure for a disease.

It's actually possible, they just don't know how to achieve it. Does that mean car mechanics do noting but sit their asses on their chair and play cards? No. They just don't know how. Goes for doctors too. Diseases are getting MORE THAN COMPLICATED right now. Look at us. Look how much we evolved. If we evolved this much, don't ya think diseases will too? Because we ARE getting cures, the diseases is keep finding WAYS to EVOLVE and avoid the CURE.

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't understand how the most advanced medicine in history is behind. You don't care, you cant' understand. So quit judging things you know shit about.


I know enough to say what Im saying, homes. If a disease hasn't been cured in 50, years what does that tell you?

Automotive engineering, on the other hand has improved immensly over the past 50 years; engines, handling and steering technology, crash durability, the advent of computerized vehicles in 1981, and so on.

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't tell you how to fix cars, because I know shit about them.

Even if you did try tell me about automotive repairs, chances are extremely likely that I already know what youre trying to "educate" me on.

Thats my entire point in all of this: people should know their jobs.

Originally posted by Alliance
Sorry, I was unaware that we should be able to cure everything instantaneously. Its not like we're killing a bacterial infection, we're talking about problems that exist on the edge of our understanding.

So go learn something. People today don't survive cancer or live 25 years with HIV because they're special. They do so because medicine is making progress in treating these things.


Ok, then I'll ask you, a member of the medical community, a question. Whats taking so goddamn long to cure another disease? Are they waiting for 2056? Are they going to try to make it a century until the next cure is invented?

Originally posted by Alliance
What do you do, sit and turn a greasy wrench all day? Thats really helping society. YOu must be a bad mechanic because you haven't stopped cars from needing to be fixed (this is exactly the kind of crap you're giving me, see what bullsh*t it is?)


Yeah, Im helping society; I'm helping people get from A to B.

And you see, I know my shit. People pay me to do a job, and I do it completely. Its not like the govt gives me obsene amounts of money annually, to squirt stuff in a testube only to come up empty handed every time.

Originally posted by Alliance
Apparently you don't understand that CURES ARE luxuries. Hell, to most people, food is a luxury.

Food can be considered a luxury, but its still necessary to survive.

Originally posted by Violent K
It's actually possible, they just don't know how to achieve it. Does that mean car mechanics do noting but sit their asses on their chair and play cards? No. They just don't know how. Goes for doctors too. Diseases are getting MORE THAN COMPLICATED right now. Look at us. Look how much we evolved. If we evolved this much, don't ya think diseases will too? Because we ARE getting cures, the diseases is keep finding WAYS to EVOLVE and avoid the CURE.

Going lightspeed in a vehicle in-atmosphere would likely incinerate the vehicle and its occupants.

And also, mechanics and car engineers arent under any pressure to invent that, unlike medical researchers are for creating a cure for diseases.

There's no need to go warpspeed on asphalt, like theres a need for a cure to AIDS or cancer.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
, like theres a need for a cure to AIDS or cancer.

Did you not listen to what I said?

Yes.

Let it go, Quiero. Even though I half-agree with you, this whole argument is pointless. The only thing you're doing is pissing off Alliance more and more...

Even though some of what you say has merit, you are basically insulting Alliance's career, which he has been busting his balls over for several years, I understand. So no matter who is actually "right" is irrelevent, this is going to develop into a flame war.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Yes.

Then you should know what the MM is dealing with here. It's easy for you guys since the machines ain't living and able to fix easily(For mechanics), but its totally completely story for doctors. These diseases ARE LIVING THINGS. THEY EVOLVE. You know how our immune system protects us from diseases cause we evolve? Same thing goes for diseases. They're living. They were simple diseases and curable, but they EVOLVE to SURVIVE, and be IMMUNED to the CURE. Again, we technically DID NOT MAKE OUR OWN BODIES. Compare it with your cars, our bodies is practically a mystery. We're able to treat this disease, bam they evolve, and we need to come up with a new cure. You make doctors sound as if they're lazy. Guess what? They're not. Not only they are dealing with millions of patients every year, but they also have to develop cures for diseases which evolves. It highly strains them, they don't play cards, they have patient's lives to save.

I'm a mechanic myself (To a degree) and I tell you now that fixing cars ain't easy. Don't be ignorant. Just because there is a blue-print doesn't mean that the steps involved aren't difficult. Mechanics and electrician work can be extremely daunting, especially if you Don't have the right tools.

Besides, I'm sure more electricians are killed on the job yearly then Scientists

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I know enough to say what Im saying, homes. If a disease hasn't been cured in 50, years what does that tell you?
It doesn't tell me anything. I ALREADY KNOW that we don't know how it works to the degree that we can stop it or way that we can think of how to stop it are too detrimental to the body or can't actually be administered.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Automotive engineering, on the other hand has improved immensly over the past 50 years; engines, handling and steering technology, crash durability, the advent of computerized vehicles in 1981, and so on.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Even if you did try tell me about automotive repairs, chances are extremely likely that I already know what youre trying to "educate" me on.
And the opposite would not be true, because you know shit about medicine, yet for some reason, fell you are qualified to judge it.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Thats my entire point in all of this: people should know their jobs.
Doctors do. You want doctors to be miracle workers.


Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Ok, then I'll ask you, a member of the medical community, a question. Whats taking so goddamn long to cure another disease? Are they waiting for 2056? Are they going to try to make it a century until the next cure is invented?

See my earlier statement. We have come along way in understanding these diseases, but they are often so complex and so integrated into the body, we cant do anything about it. Take cancer for instance, every type of cancer is different. Something like 80% or all breast cancers can be treated now because we figures out how that one specific type of breast cancer works, then we figured out how to treat it. They're all different and its not the easiest to tell whats going on when you're dealing with living people of which everyone is different.

Other problems are more severe. For example, my friend works on fungal infections that can inhabit IVs. We know drugs that can fight the fungus, but its practically impossible to get them to solubilize so they can actually be delivered to treat the infections. A lot of her work could be used to help in Iraq, where an increasing number of soldiers are dying from fungal and bacterial infections when they have severe wounds.

Thats an advancement. If you're looking for something divine like a cure for cancer and AIDS, then you probably see about 5 major advances in medicine throughout history. If you actual READ whats going on, you know that its advancing at an incredible rate. The length of times it takes to solve these is not incompetence, scientists around the world are studying these problems. Its a testament to how difficult these problems are.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
And you see, I know my shit. People pay me to do a job, and I do it completely. Its not like the govt gives me obsene amounts of money annually, to squirt stuff in a testube only to come up empty handed every time.
Sorry, my work involves thinking. Actually, I've never used a testube in my research, so clearly you've been watching too much CSI. And, if problems could be solved by squirting things in testubes, medicine could be finished.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
like theres a need for a cure to AIDS or cancer. You sit there and *****? Yet you do nothing. People dedicate their lives to doing this stuff. You know nothing about these diseases, therfore you have no idea how to judge progress or how long it actually should take to treat specific problems. You don't know how techniques change and you don't know how much work it takes to do so.

Basically, you're massively under-informed. And unless you have any real points, I'm done arguing this crap. i'm not going to waste my time arguing with ignorance.

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
I'm a mechanic myself (To a degree) and I tell you now that fixing cars ain't easy. Don't be ignorant. Just because there is a blue-print doesn't mean that the steps involved aren't difficult. Mechanics and electrician work can be extremely daunting, especially if you Don't have the right tools.

Besides, I'm sure more electricians are killed on the job yearly then Scientists

Yeah, my point is, it ain't easy to fix it if you don't know how it works.

There's a defined limit to the pieces of a car. The human body doesn't have that.Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
Let it go, Quiero. Even though I half-agree with you, this whole argument is pointless. The only thing you're doing is pissing off Alliance more and more...

Even though some of what you say has merit, you are basically insulting Alliance's career, which he has been busting his balls over for several years, I understand. So no matter who is actually "right" is irrelevent, this is going to develop into a flame war.

I've said that the teast was a **** up. It was a false positive. There are steps taken to insure that it is not. If those steps weren't taken, then we can talk about liability.

However, from what I know from this little blurb of an article, the doctors did nothing wrong. On top of that, even if they did do something wrong, the doctors and the hospitals are not liable for his purchases or hsi failure to pay his bills.

Medecine is run by doctors, who are people, who are expected to go throguh their carrers never making one mistake. Doctos are fallible. Science has its human/god given limits.

Originally posted by Alliance


Yeah, my point is, it ain't easy to fix it if you don't know how it works.

There's a defined limit to the pieces of a car. The human body doesn't have that.

I was referring to K's post, where he said that fixing things is a lot easier then Scientific work. It's not, it just doesn't take nearly as much time. I understand you're point.

I further clarified. I didn't mean to insult anyones carrer, it did it simply to point out what Quiero was saying to me.

Machine and men are simply not good models for eachother. If we understood how men worked as well as cars, we'd live a lot healthier lives.

*sobs*

I still love ya, man!

But... we are still enemies... my Christian god says so

Good. We wouldn't want to get along would we

Of course not...

...

Infidel ermm

firefirefireph

Too bad you can't be original 13

Anyone who has unwavering faith in any single doctor is naive. Of course I'm relatively jaded on the medical profession in general seeing the "calibre" of the medical students I tutor for in laboratory classes and having known several people nearing entry into the medical profession...

Originally posted by Alliance
You're insight is blinding. I'm pre-med, will be accepted into med school this coming year and I have contact with the medical field on a daily basis, including medical ethics, and I work in the medical field.

So, you are correct, I'm not a doctor, but my opinion certainly has credentials to back it up, which is more than I can say for you.
I'm a corpsman in the United States Navy. You 'have contact' with the medical field? We had a med evac come in from Iwo Jima just today carrying a marine with a collapsed lung. I LIVE the medical field. Once you've finished college, med school and your internship, then come and talk to me. You are not a doctor. You're a college kid. You haven't seen anything. I'm not a doctor either. But at least I don't parade around as one.

Although, in essense, if it can be proven that the doctor was negligent then maybe he has a case. Until then, I'm going to side with the doc.

Q, he's right. Medicine isn't like fixing a car. Every person is different, symptoms present differently, medical tests can be wrong, etc. The human body is immensily different from an automobile, and as advanced as we may feel we are right now, we're not all knowing. Human bodies adapt against medicines, bacteria evolve against tried and true treatment all the time, and, honestly, the body is just ****ing complicated. You can't compare painting a house to building a car, just like you can't compare jumping a car to recussitating a patient in cardiac arrest.

well all said and done this guy lost all he had because he trusted a doctor who was supposed to be doing his job. yes he should have taken a second opinion, yes he should not have squandered his money away without a thought, etc. but is'nt the doctor at fault somewhere????? if he made a mistake he should have to pay for it just as this man is paying for his mistake.

That's the whole point. If he made a mistake. What if the misinformation was unavoidable? One condition parading as another? What if the patient didn't follow up with the hospital (if he was instructed to do so)?

If he did everything right and the results still came out incorrect, how is the doctor at fault in any way?

Originally posted by Kinneary
I'm a corpsman in the United States Navy. You 'have contact' with the medical field? We had a med evac come in from Iwo Jima just today carrying a marine with a collapsed lung. I LIVE the medical field. Once you've finished college, med school and your internship, then come and talk to me. You are not a doctor. You're a college kid. You haven't seen anything. I'm not a doctor either. But at least I don't parade around as one.

I never said I was a doctor. When I said "we" i mean the medical filed. I'm sorry if you thought I was saying something that I do not intend.

However, I don't work my ass off everyday in lab and at the hospital to be told I know shit about medicine and can't state an opinion. I've never stated my opinion as a doctor, I stated it as someone who is informed. I don't need a rank or a MD in my name to be credible. And don't give me the "I live the medical field" bullshit because you've had one medevac. No one really "lives the medical field." You may treat, but you don't do research. Others may research, but don't treat. Working in a hospital is not like working in the field.

My analysis was perfectly valid and you agree with it and my further comments. I also do a lot of work on medical ethics, which certainly applies to this case.

So, I may be 20, but I'm not a dumbass.

pffft medicine is such a joke

whats it been, 2000+ years and still no cure for lower back pain. Thats unreasonable.

You can thank walking upright for that one.

That doesn't sound very intelligently designed...

Originally posted by Alliance
You can thank walking upright for that one.

seriously...who's bright idea was that?

Originally posted by inimalist
That doesn't sound very intelligently designed...

If we were designed...God is f*cking retarded.

Originally posted by Schecter
seriously...who's bright idea was that?

*shrugs*

Nice to have our hands free though.

Originally posted by Alliance
If we were designed...God is f*cking retarded.


I think it is us who still haven't figured out the divine purpose of the appendix in humans.

Its not worht the mental effort. Just read the Wedge Document.

I have a long post brewing in the religion forum. I was just in the same room as the US's most intelligent scholars on evolution-creation dialogue.

Originally posted by Alliance
I never said I was a doctor. When I said "we" i mean the medical filed. I'm sorry if you thought I was saying something that I do not intend.

However, I don't work my ass off everyday in lab and at the hospital to be told I know shit about medicine and can't state an opinion. I've never stated my opinion as a doctor, I stated it as someone who is informed. I don't need a rank or a MD in my name to be credible. And don't give me the "I live the medical field" bullshit because you've had one medevac. No one really "lives the medical field." You may treat, but you don't do research. Others may research, but don't treat. Working in a hospital is not like working in the field.
Which had nothing to do with my original statment that you are not a doctor, and that your original post insinuated that you were. You have since clarified, and nothing more is needed.


Of course. One doesn't even need medical background to draw that conclusion. I honestly don't understand how other people here think that medicine is a mastered science with simple a + b = c answers.


I'm also 20.

That you are.