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I am a survivor of the Janus era (my thy rest in peace) and have been out of the loop for about half a year. I come back, and suddenly, the godly ancient sith have become worms, Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos, who were once the most uber of the most uber, are bigger worms, the once weak sidious and yoda are Lords of all that is holy, and the KOTOR era has become a time of the weak and helpless while the movie era jedi have become demi-gods.

now my question to all of you is WTF happened?!?!?!?

People wised up and realized that hurling a brick does not make you uber.

lol... I wasn't in the so called Janus Era so I can't tell you that but... I can tell you DE Sidious has become the most powerful Sith and NJO Luke the most powerul Jedi since you're not here.

Luke was UBER back then, no doubt. the Janus era was a glorious time. the posts being half a page long each, full of quotes and facts, the ignorant were insulted, and the toadies banished. those who were not powerful never became powerful.

But back to the original question. how did this metimorphisis happen? i suspect lightsnake had something to do with this...

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
People wised up and realized that hurling a brick does not make you uber.

And the "Antediluvian" period sucked. I admired they're debating skills, but their bad attitudes toward any opposition was annoying, to say the least. They had an extreme superiority complex, and I'm glad they're gone. From what I've heard Janus has dissapeared, and EoD is in shambles. Sucks for them.

They understood the true power of the dark side. if someone disagrees with you, then they must be executed, their blasphemy stopped, and their heresy silenced. it proved quite effective.

With all due respect to the 'Janus-era', this era relies more on fact and evidence than on personal bias. Some of the debaters back then admittedly despised Sidious to the point that they would belittle his achievements and his power . Y'know, stupid stuff. Then, they would proclaim that Ragnos could waltz through a gauntlet filled with the likes of DE Sidious and NJO Luke without all of his limbs and effort.

Unfortunately for them, some of us have compiled an arsenal of quotes, sources, and evidence to use, that they never could refute. So, rather than fight it forever, some of them accepted it: Nai Fohl, for example, who was one of the more prominent of the anti-Sidious, pro-Dooku, pro-Ancient Sith types now accept that DE Sidious is - at the very, very, very least - one of the very most powerful Sith Lords in the saga. Then, people like Lightsnake managed to point out that the Ancient Sith uberpower primarily stemmed from their Sith technology, and without it, they resort to hurling bricks. Sidious, however, never relied on technology and such to enhance his power, so he is naturally more powerful than they are. Canon quotes in regards to his strength in the Force are much more abundant and plentiful than those for the Ancient Sith, which allows us true logicians to make a much better argument.

In conclusion, with the exception of a few, the Janus-era debaters were only good at bashing their opponents into submission and belittling the accomplishments of superior powers. Not actually arguing their point.

ha! there was a good deal of bashing at that time, no doubt. but there was also a good deal of fact. I always believed taht DE sidious was great and powerful. But ROTS? no. he was weak, and would have been crushed by the likes of Revan and Kun. maybe this is my personal bias from the Janus era, but this is what i believe, and until serious evidence is shown to me that ROTS Sidious can blast through gient worm beasts and run through the entire Star Forge, i will not stop thinking this way.

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
And the "Antediluvian" period sucked. I admired they're debating skills, but their bad attitudes toward any opposition was annoying, to say the least. They had an extreme superiority complex, and I'm glad they're gone. From what I've heard Janus has dissapeared, and EoD is in shambles. Sucks for them.
Their attidues were bad, though I don't agree that the period sucked. I kinda liked it, more that this one, even. And I agree, DE Sidious is the strongest Sith, but not ROTS Sidious, and the ancient Sith are so underrated now. I don't put them above DE Sidious, but a few of them I still rank quite high.

Yeah. Janus left and the other guys and lightsnake and the new era guys moved in, they extinguished the era where the ancient Sith are powerful. idk

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
ha! there was a good deal of bashing at that time, no doubt. but there was also a good deal of fact. I always believed taht DE sidious was great and powerful. But ROTS? no. he was weak, and would have been crushed by the likes of Revan and Kun. maybe this is my personal bias from the Janus era, but this is what i believe, and until serious evidence is shown to me that ROTS Sidious can blast through gient worm beasts and run through the entire Star Forge, i will not stop thinking this way.

You don't have to believe me. That's the beauty of the Advent-era. We all have different opinions; sure, we might be able to disprove them and so forth, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're an idiot if you don't blindly follow the current taboos at the time. You, Null, were - and are - one of those people: you seem to follow this idealogy seemingly because Janus argued it. No offense to Janus (because he is an outstanding debater when he wants to be), but he is as biased and as rude as they come. He also supported the 'Dooku > Sidious' idea (seriously, how stupid is that?) and look how hard that got debunked.

But, you said it yourself. You've been out of the loop. If you compare our arguments to those of the 'Janus-era' with an objective state of mind, you'll clearly see that ours is better supported and reinforced.

As for RotS Sidious being 'weak', well, we could debate that all night. I've got quotes and evidence to prove that he isn't weak. Perhaps tomorrow you would like to discuss it?

Edit: By the way, it's proven by the RotS novelization (G-canon) that Yoda is more powerful than Revan or any Jedi prior to him. Sidious is his equal, which makes him - incidentally - more powerful than Revan as well.

QUOTES! i hate them more than anything. quotes are for fools who can't find evidence! if i suddenly made up a show, in which character A got WTFpwned by character B, then said A was better, you would have to believe me, sinse i created it. but the facs point in another direction. idk, it all seems so stupid to me.

An edit to your edit: READ ABOVE!

btw: i didn't realize you were Escape 81! it is good to hear from you again! You always were a Sidious supporter, if not fanboy, but a smart one that provided good facts!

The Janus-era, while full of insults from the Antediluvians, was a Golden Age in the SW forums. They all left right about the time the public hype over SW began to die. Most topics had been questioned and answered, threads were starting to look rather familiar. So, while the forums were dieing, Janus and Sorgo and the like actually kept the place entertaining.

We've moved on from the Dark Ages, where brute force was the tool into forcing your opinions on others. We now use logic, reason and fact instead of opinions derived from personal bias.

But you have to admit, the Dark Ages were rather fun compared to this Enlightenment.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
QUOTES! i hate them more than anything. quotes are for fools who can't find evidence! if i suddenly made up a show, in which character A got WTFpwned by character B, then said A was better, you would have to believe me, sinse i created it. but the facs point in another direction. idk, it all seems so stupid to me.

An edit to your edit: READ ABOVE!

If this is your personal philosophy, you've pretty much destroyed the whole notion of 'Ragnos-owns-all', since, of course, there isn't any on panel evidence displaying his "awesome power", and quotes - according to you - are "for fools who can't find evidence!"

Edit: Tangible, I used to have a healthy respect for the Antedivulians, and yes, they were entertaining, but nine times out of ten, they didn't debate. They bashed. In fact, I should retract my statement: they were not good debaters. Not at all. Rather, they were a cadre of near-genii who either could not or would not support their personal opinions with any semblance of evidence or fact, and opt to bash the opposition into submission.

So, yeah, they answered the 'questions', but did so incorrectly.

Indeed. The only thing that made Ragnos look even above average was a single quote saying he was "The most powerful of powerful"...

EDIT: Here ya go. EoD in all it's intellecutual glory.

Click

haha! no, by quotes i mean from creators and authors who know truly nothing of what they create. Quotes from Kreia, imho, are good evidence, but wouldn't stand up to acual battle fact.

I see. So, essentially, what you're saying is: quotes function as evidence so long as they happen to support my theory, but not otherwise. Not by the creators of the work who have more insight into the stories than anyone else.



Here is the difference: Kreia is a character - a fallible third party. She has weaknesses, gaps of information, biases, and so forth. She wasn't even present during the Ancient Sith reign. However, she was a gifted historian, and to that end, we must take her 'quotes' into consideration. But that isn't proof alone. It's supporting evidence.

On the other hand, the quotes made by the omniscient narrator or the creator function as automatic fact because they exist outside of the story itself.

now you are twisting my words. a creator is fallible as well, and can make mistakes. They see what they created, not how it is being viewed. This is a flaw in their work. something might look right to them, but it is totally wrong to the player, or reader, or viewer, or whatever.

And yes, because Kreia was a jedi historian, and a sith lord, she knows what she is talking about quite well.

I remember the "Janus" era, I made this account back then, though it's been mostly inactive since, I'm also the one who asked lightsnake to check these forums out in the first place, and what do I remember about that time?

9 times out of 10 I was bashed for what I've said. I remember once arguing Sid's>Revan, and being laughed out of the topic, though not one person put up an argument beyond older sith>new sith. The problem with that era was that, like Gideon pointed out, it was rife with fanboyism to the point where some wouldn't even look at an argument that didn't fall in line with the status quo.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
now you are twisting my words. a creator is fallible as well, and can make mistakes. They see what they created, not how it is being viewed. This is a flaw in their work. something might look right to them, but it is totally wrong to the player, or reader, or viewer, or whatever.

But unfortunately, its not up to you to decide what the creators intent was, and thus pick out the mistakes in his work, unless of course they conflict with a higher source of canon material, in which case it's a no brainer


Originally posted by Null ARC Avis

And yes, because Kreia was a jedi historian, and a sith lord, she knows what she is talking about quite well.

Personally, I agree with you to a point, if there's someone in KOTOR who is qualified to speak about the ancient sith with any accuracy is Kreia, problem is we can't be absolutely sure of the accuracy of what's she's said. So while it can be used as support for an argument, it doesn't hold the weight of say the omniscient narrator

I was the in the "janus" era. Iv seen crap like anyone > sidious and both sidious and vader were the most underrated characters, thanks to JJ, Vos, Gideon, Me, Sexy, advent, Ls and styles, vader is no longer a "worm" as he used to be in that era

As for sidious being the top sith, all credits go to Ls advent and gideon

I remembered people at that time said ancient sith>new sith. Revan &
Kun are said to be>all others

Sidious is uber from the movies, its pretty obvious.

Ahh - the Janus era. Wonderful times, wonderful times. Debating with old Janus, Fishy and the others. I remember the times when you could bust into the forums, whisper Revan! and a hushed silence would ensue; the debate was over. Those were the days to be frank. Now, who's this? This Advent-era guy (guessing he's called Advent), might like debating with facts and evidence but really, these are simply tools for dealing with abstract concepts.

Now from what I remember, as I've pretty much vacated these boards now, Lightsnake arrived and demanded factual proof for literally every single statement and assumption made. No problem, Lightsnake is/was a nice guy (is he still about?) and he had some very nice posts.

Now, this is all well and good if you take this lot seriously, however, if you take all this ficitonal gladitorial conbat stuff seriously, in my opinion, you got something missing up there. Now what made me stop posting quite a bit in this board was that it literally became a game of reciting Wikipedia or similar, quoting sources and really making something as engaging and fun a saga as Star Wars turn into the equivalant as a lecture on the industrial revolution and how it affected the rising price of first class stamps in yorkshire during the latter half of the 19th century. Interesting eh?

What this forums lacks, I believe (just my take on things you understand) , is those strange entertaining posts which the so called Janus-era had in abundance. Now, what used to matter was a persons conviction to an argument, their own intepretation on a character, the conclusions they drew, the questions they asked and the execution of their argument.

It did not matter if they were wrong or not, someone could come up with the most ludicrous statement in the world, and through their own posts, they could really show their enthusiasm for the pop culture phenomenom that is the Star Wars saga. I don't post on forums dictated by a dogmatic, dreary use of source exposition, that just isn't entertaining in any way. Instead, I enjoy nostalgia, humour and a couple of people like myself who really do not take all this shizzle seriously.

Long live the Janus-era.

People post seriously with logic BECAUSE it is fun, and because they like debating. You're calling of someones passion and entertainment as a ****ing mental problem, it is YOU who has a problem then. Because this has no bearing on the world out there doesn't mean you have to be stupid to do it.

All I remember was that the creator of those godly sith comics recognized Sidious as their superior. As for Marka Ragnos.. He has always been nothing more than just some vague mumbling.
Luke is still uber by the way. So that's what happened. Not much.

I just cant understand how Marka Ragnos has fanboys, the guy appears in a couple of comics, on couple of pages as a Force ghost and in the game Jedi Academy, only at the end, where he gets pwnd by padawan Jaden, i can understand people liking Kit Fisto or other background Jedi, Ekar Kun, Revan..., and other people who had an appearance in EU, but Marka Ragnos, i just don't understand it.

I was there too, there are quite a few of us left over.

Sidious has been uber since people started paying attention to canon material.

That's an interesting outlook on the 'situation', Exanda. Advent is a girl, by the way.



That's stupid. What is debating if not with the use of logic and evidence? No, the Antedivulians (most of them, at least) simply argued senselessly and 98% of their posts were composed of insults. I recall when one of them directly implied that Lightsnake needed to commit suicide. Such things aren't to be taken lightly, nor is there anything funny about the situation. Stupid things like that is what degraded my respect for the lot of them, and gave me the conclusion that they really have no passion in life beyond trying to make themselves feel almighty over the Internet.

Really, your entire perception of debating is confusing. You condemn us for using logic and evidence to decide debates rather than outright insults? Nice. You clearly aren't a debater, are you?

In fact, your entire response was rather hypocritical and contradicting. They rarely debated, but bashed. Since this particular forum was created with debating in mind, I'd say we're the ones who are actually living up to the purpose, not the members of the Janus-era.

Top marks for having no sense of humour then Gideon.

Well, I think for the most part members a few months ago actually had a FAR better idea of how powerful each character is in relation to one another than people do now. And there was better debators; no questioning that. However, we're nowadays simply far more informed than we were back then. I'd be very surprised if Janus, IKC, or Faunus had even half of the SW books or comics simply because they're poor college kids who can't afford them.


Basically they're are plenty of notions around nowadays that are as ridiculous as any I've seen here before (with the exception of Revan pwning all. Guys like Emperor Revan claimed he'd pwn NJO Luke and still probably would). These include but aren't limited to ROTS Sidious being better than guys like Bane, ROTS Anakin in "the zone" (anyone else hear how retarded this sounds?) being one of the greatest lightsaber users ever, ect. The "big dogs" that we have now are slowly but surely becoming no different than the "big dogs" from the past. With few exceptions, if any, no one still around knew Janus or the other "Antedivulians" before they before they took charge of the debates.

BTW, I personally hate the term Antedivulians. Can anyone even give a solid list of who it includes?

Originally posted by exanda kane
Top marks for having no sense of humour then Gideon.

Nice rebuttle, Exanda. Thank you for answering my question ('are you a debater?'). Likewise, it proves how ignorant you are about me, because the truth is, I have a prevalent sense of humor. Why not ask anyone who actually pays attention to these forums? I joke with everyone quite often. The difference is, when I debate - y'know, argue facts, evidence to prove a point - the discussion cannot be dictated by a sense of humor or a desire to insult the opposition.

That's just silly; Janus was one of the smartest people I've ever encountered, and some of things that he argued for or against was pure bullshit. Seriously: Dooku and Yoda being equals? Dooku being more powerful than Sidious? Darth Bandon being more powerful than Sidious? Marka Ragnos being able to own everybody without the use of all of his limbs?

Really, Glentract, and you credit them with having 'a FAR better idea of how powerful each character is in relation to one another than people do now?'

How about backing that up?



I strongly disagree, having seen the best of both. Janus and the rest might be smarter (again, they're a group of near-genii), but better debaters? Hardly. Pit Advent up against any of them, and she'd own them all. Why? 'Cuz she debates logically, giving her a distinct advantage.



This isn't necessarily true. I have never come close to rivalling any of the Antedivulians in sheer Star Wars knowledge. The only comics I've read are the ones I've had to in order to debate the material. Since I argue mostly movie stuff, that means I'm limited in my comic book experience. The difference is, I've put my limited knowledge to better use than they have put theirs.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract

Basically they're are plenty of notions around nowadays that are as ridiculous as any I've seen here before (with the exception of Revan pwning all. Guys like Emperor Revan claimed he'd pwn NJO Luke and still probably would). These include but aren't limited to ROTS Sidious being better than guys like Bane, ROTS Anakin in "the zone" (anyone else hear how retarded this sounds?) being one of the greatest lightsaber users ever, ect. The "big dogs" that we have now are slowly but surely becoming no different than the "big dogs" from the past. With few exceptions, if any, no one still around knew Janus or the other


The main difference between the "big dogs" of today and the big dogs of yesteryear is that today, the "uber" characters have some solid canonical backing. The evidence for the ancient sith amounted to little more than a handful (by that I mean less than 10) quotes and one impressive force feat, that was the causing of a supernova. At least with Luke and Sidious there are quotes and feats that back up the hype.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's just silly; Janus was one of the smartest people I've ever encountered, and some of things that he argued for or against was pure bullshit. Seriously: Dooku and Yoda being equals? Dooku being more powerful than Sidious? Darth Bandon being more powerful than Sidious? Marka Ragnos being able to own everybody without the use of all of his limbs?

Really, Glentract, and you credit them with having 'a FAR better idea of how powerful each character is in relation to one another than people do now?'

How about backing that up?



I strongly disagree, having seen the best of both. Janus and the rest might be smarter (again, they're a group of near-genii), but better debaters? Hardly. Pit Advent up against any of them, and she'd own them all. Why? 'Cuz she debates logically, giving her a distinct advantage.



This isn't necessarily true. I have never come close to rivalling any of the Antedivulians in sheer Star Wars knowledge. The only comics I've read are the ones I've had to in order to debate the material. Since I argue mostly movie stuff, that means I'm limited in my comic book experience. The difference is, I've put my limited knowledge to better use than they have put theirs.

Quite frankly, I have no intention to debate you over anything in this thread. Technically this should be closed. Everything has to become a debate now; why can't anyone have normal conversation anymore.

Really, Glentract, Palp is outright mentioned as stronger than Bane, that's silly.
And yeah, I do miss the Janus era myself...the comparison to the Dark Ages is very apt....I do miss all the fights with IKC, or Janus, though.

Why not, Glentract? Certainly, if you're right, you have every single reason - and the means required - to adequetly prove your point. Unless, of course, you know my point is better.



This is a discussion in which differing opinions are given. I gave an opinion, you disagreed, so I respond, and you suddenly want to stop it entirely. Don't make a claim if you can't back it up, Glentract.

Being mentioned as more powerful than Bane is quite simply not proof. Sidious has never showed himself to be stronger than Bane. I do not believe Bane to be very powerful himself in the grandscheme (below people including but not limited to Luke, Jacen, Kyp, Exar, Ragnos, Sadow, DE Sidious), but he is above ROTS Sidious, who quite frankly doesn't get all that powerful until years after ROTS.

Um, no, Glentract, sorry. Direct canon declares Palpatine stronger. That alone defeats anything you can say. And we're talking TPM-ROTS period. I'm sorry, but Palpatine and Yoda are simply quite above him. What's he done that's above them?

Nothing.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nice rebuttle, Exanda. Thank you for answering my question ('are you a debater?'). Likewise, it proves how ignorant you are about me, because the truth is, I have a prevalent sense of humor. Why not ask anyone who actually pays attention to these forums? I joke with everyone quite often. The difference is, when I debate - y'know, argue facts, evidence to prove a point - the discussion cannot be dictated by a sense of humor or a desire to insult the opposition.

You need more evidence with your cup of tea kid? More proof in the old ash tray there? If people result to gaining confidence, self esteem or god help us, an ego in real life through disputing the most trivial and moot points, then good for them, I am glad, however, I really do pity them. You call me ignorant, a baseless fact, and do I mind? No I do not, as I am quite aware I have taken no measures to find out who you are. Likewise, I would love to see the humour you might inject into a post, yet on evidence of your previous efforts, I see the human equivilant of a very slow going egg timer looking back at me.

Please, do not embarass yourself by feeling the need to assure fellow posters that you are in fact, a very socially active and confident being, but please, take this business less seriously. Debate when the need arises, not when you feel the world warrants an interrogation. Write to entertain and inform, to humour, do not write to lecture, to argue. Star Wars is meant to be enjoyed, not preached, and I know I'd rather be the italian philosopher from 16th century Renaissance Venice smokin' opium than the ill fated nuclear physician from some military installation in northern europe.

Originally posted by Gideon
Why not, Glentract? Certainly, if you're right, you have every single reason - and the means required - to adequetly prove your point. Unless, of course, you know my point is better.



This is a discussion in which differing opinions are given. I gave an opinion, you disagreed, so I respond, and you suddenly want to stop it entirely. Don't make a claim if you can't back it up, Glentract.

Sorry, but no. You made a statement, I made a statement. That's where it should have ended. Asking me for proof on this is just plain ridiculous. I never asked, and never will ask, you to back up your stance on this. I'd be appreciate it if you'd do the same for me.

Um, no, Glentract, sorry. Direct canon declares Palpatine stronger. That alone defeats anything you can say. And we're talking TPM-ROTS period. I'm sorry, but Palpatine and Yoda are simply quite above him. What's he done that's above them?

Nothing.

BTW, nice to talk to you again Lightsnake, it's been a while.

When does direct canon declare Palpatine stronger? I'm sorry, but I must have missed that. Please provide.

What's Bane done? For starters, he moved a moon. Second, with one exception (and this was when he was still far from how powerful he would eventually become) he could rape anyone alive no wuestions asked. At no other time period in all of Star Wars in which there is a credible Jedi Order and a credible Sith Order is there ever such a large gap between the first and second most powerful person around.

You pretty much just destroyed your entire response.



Do me a favor and actually discuss this logically. I called you 'ignorant', and you tell me that I have no basis for doing so. Then you go on to say that you have 'taken no measures to find out who you are'. Quite silly. I called you ignorant because you don't know me, and proved so by assuming things about me, which you proved to be true. So, really, your ignorance of me is not baseless, and it appears to be true.

The lesson: don't assume.



When you visit this forum, in a thread like this (or in any thread), you debate. I enjoy Star Wars, as do the people who debate it. However, we also enjoy debating it - thus the flaw in your entire diatribe. So, by debating Star Wars, we are actually exercising its purpose: to entertain. And so we are.

Likewise, when you start a debate with someone, please know what the hell you're doing. Based on 'previous experiences', you don't know how to debate.

I see, Glentract, so you're in the habit of making statements and not supporting them when called out? Surely you must see how funny that sounds. But, I know the difference: I can back up what I say. In this case, you can't.

Edit: Pardon, I breached a cardinal rule I just lectured Exanda on. I 'assumed'. Excuse me, Glentract, I should say (rather) that you either "can't" or "won't" for some odd reason.

I don't like to be hypocritical, apologies.

Damn well better apologize.

This thread sucks.

Originally posted by Gideon
I see, Glentract, so you're in the habit of making statements and not supporting them when called out? Surely you must see how funny that sounds. But, I know the difference: I can back up what I say. In this case, you can't.

Edit: Pardon, I breached a cardinal rule I just lectured Exanda on. I 'assumed'. Excuse me, Glentract, I should say (rather) that you either "can't" or "won't" for some odd reason.

I don't like to be hypocritical, apologies.

Alright now I'm just confused. What happened with Exanda?

Basically Avis asked when the most common method of thinking around here shifted. It's a question, not grounds for a SW debate. Therefor in this situation I don't feel compelled to provide evidence for the statements I make answering his questions.

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
Damn well better apologize.

I apologize x2 for you, my master.

Then let me ask: do you actually have proof and are unwilling to share it in the risk of starting an argument, or do you simply lack it and just want this to be your opinion?

Why do you care so much Gideon?

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Why do you care so much Gideon?

Why are you curious?

Because. You are humping this issue like a dog in heat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Then let me ask: do you actually have proof and are unwilling to share it in the risk of starting an argument, or do you simply lack it and just want this to be your opinion?

Yes, I have proof. I'd reckon that I could put up a hell of an argument if I felt reason to do so. However, I lack the energy for extended debates these days in most instances and I see no reason to defend people who honestly don't give a ****.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Because. You are humping this issue like a dog in heat.

Right. Well, here's your answer: I like to debate with people. I like to prove a point. If there's a point that conflicts with mine, and I feel that I can argue it, I will.

I hope that's not an issue with you or anyone else.

But Glentract has already expressed the fact he does not want to debate you. why press the issue?

Look it's Janus Myspace!

She has a nice ass.

Originally posted by Burnt Pancakes
Look it's Janus Myspace!

LMAO! That must be him.

Gideon kid, lets take this back to the beginning shall we? You call me ignorant. Yet, you know nothing about me. Now, let's take another step back shall we? Who is the ignorant one here? The ones who is ignorant enough to assume that the other is ignorant, or the one who sees the ironic value in whats being said?

No, I really shouldn't be dealing out the lectures here, but I will give it a go if all I find is uninteresting debates on how one C-canon character can, and I quote "WTFpwn" end quote, another C-canon character.

Originally posted by Gideon
When you visit this forum, in a thread like this (or in any thread), you debate. I enjoy Star Wars, as do the people who debate it. However, we also enjoy debating it - thus the flaw in your entire diatribe. So, by debating Star Wars, we are actually exercising its purpose: to entertain. And so we are.

Yet you seem to be missing my point and a very simple point it is. Liven up. That's right. You heard it here first. Take this less seriously. My point, is that I want ot be entertained by reading this. In the Janus-era I was. And it wasn't crude internet-bred acronyms doing the dirty work. There were generally funny people around who knew how to make people laugh. My post was no debate, no score to settle, it was simply a memoir of a time when KOTOR nostalgia was from in peoples minds, people realised the Prequel films were some of the most awful films ever made and they knew how to crack a joke.

Something went very wrong along the way. Tell me, are you an echo of the Great KMC Forum Purge following the Trekkie-Jedi Civil War?

First of all, I wouldn't consider the Antedeluvians "naer genii" as Escape so eloquently puts it, but a bunch of psuedointellectuals that have too much time on their hands so they decide to debate about pointless philosophical topics on the internet, all the while insulting anyone who doesn't agree with their insignificant views. If I want liberal rhetoric and propaganda, I'll get it from some of my teachers.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Debate when the need arises, not when you feel the world warrants an interrogation. Write to entertain and inform, to humour, do not write to lecture, to argue. Star Wars is meant to be enjoyed, not preached
This is really a great POV.

And I would like to point out that worst part of debating now-a-days is the insults that some people toss around too much. And Star Wars is not a subject in which one should extensively resort to insults. Even some current top Star Wars debators of KMC do not realize this.

Zephiel is however one guy that I respect. He has the nerves to speakout against bad happenings.

Sheesh. I remember that debate with Kadesh over nihilius and if his power is instantaneous. Kadesh just went all out on the insults like a fukcing 10 year old would. But Zephiel kept his cool.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
But Glentract has already expressed the fact he does not want to debate you. why press the issue?

Because I want to know if he is actually capable of debating the point and simply doesn't want to, or if he lacks the capability to argue the point successfully. His unwillingness to answer leads me to deduce that he is incapable of doing so, and would prefer that it not lead to a debate to facilitate his lack of evidence.

Exanda:



I'd say that the ignorant one would be the person who admittedly has no complete knowledge about a topic, makes a judgment anyways, and then denies being ignorant. That would be you. You're ignorant, uninformed, about this particular issue.

haha! woo 60 posts! 61 now! Still, my questions are left unanswered. When did all of this happen? How did all of this happen? can anyone give me proof that all of this is true? Thank you.

btw: don't say this thread sucks.

Well, if you check all posts in the past year, third farthest page, there's a NJO Luke vs. Ragnos thread in which the consensus was that Luke was the better, I'd say it's right about then that things truly changed.

How did this happen? for some it was simply overwhelming evidence, a lot of SW stuff is released each month, so of course certain quotes or passages will come out that prove a certain opinion or point of view. For others it was simply them wising up and realizing that cannon supported ideas like Sidious being the strongest of the sith.

If you want proof of what's said these days, then just read through the topics themselves, they should have all the evidence you want inside them.

Actually, your questions have been answered completely, Avis. But, I'll be happy to conclude it all in a brief, succinct manner. The answer to it is that this 'new era' began to do what the old one didn't do, and that is, we actually pay attention to what is fact and what is fiction, and we do not deny, belittle, or hide fact when it doesn't suit our benefit or support our favorite characters. We interpret quotes and evidence better and we debate in a much superior fashion, even if we are lacking in the witty retorts (on average) and the ill-will towards everyone else.

When did this happen? About a year ago. Who caused it? A few people. Lightsnake, Advent, so on and so forth.

TECHNICALLY speaking I started it. In the old battlebar I said a remark concerning Sorgo about how nobody cares about something he said, and then he jumped on me and a bunch of other people jumped in to defend me, then it just got worse from there, with Sorgo getting banned.

Or... actually what REALLY got the ball going was when Ush came into the battlebar and warned Janus to stop posting pics with the words f*ck uncensored on them, which Janus and Sorgo responded to with nasty rebuttals, and Sorgo got a perma-ban, while a few other Antediluvian got temp. bans for laughing. After that Janus stopped visiting frequently and stayed at EoD, along with most of the other Antediluvian, except for Sorgo, who now posts here as a sock since EoD is dead.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
What's Bane done? For starters, he moved a moon. Second, with one exception (and this was when he was still far from how powerful he would eventually become) he could rape anyone alive no wuestions asked.

In response to the topic title:

He's always been uber, you just didn't know it until now.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'd say that the ignorant one would be the person who admittedly has no complete knowledge about a topic, makes a judgment anyways, and then denies being ignorant. That would be you. You're ignorant, uninformed, about this particular issue.

Ignorant of you? Of course I am. I am simply admitting that fact that I really have no wish to find out anything about you. That is not an ignorance shown through error, but simple little me, confessing a fact. You however, insist on calling me ignorant, even when you yourself, no nothing about me. One might say that you are ignorant and uninformed about this particular issue, one could also speculate that you are ignorant and uninformed concerning film form, and one could also say you are ignorant and uninformed on the matters of storytelling, considering how you ask your teachers (School kid? God.) about the subject.

Now understand, I am not telling you that you are these things. I will not make an ignorant statement that I cannot provide evidence for, however, I can make assumptions from your posts. I really do not want to argue semantics, as quite frankly, it's a waste of time, but if you do drag this out unneccesary, I will contiinue.

I've been through both "era's" and honestly the current one is far more factual in its debates. Christ, I remember IKC and his "no one could ever EVER! beat Kun" arguments (if you could call it an argument) other then Ragnos because of well....really no reason whatsoever. The "Janus" era consisted of nothing more then bashing and bias opinion, newcomers were shunned and made fun of for believing anything even slightly out of the norm.

Credit goes to Lightsnake for coming in and dethroning the "Janus era" arguments with actual facts and proof rather then basically unsupported hearsay. IMO this era should be the "Lightsnake" era as he was the first one to truly challenge Janus and the others and he, unlike most, kept arguing even with them constantly bashing him for everything he said. All credit to LS.

eh Lightsnake's still a sissy. I can safely say that I'm the only real man's man here.

It wasn't the fact it wasn't "factual" it was the fact we didn't have the majority of the books and comics, and we also said no sourcebooks and NJO was universally considered shit, while now it's basically a bible.

I think it is safe to say we have entered the plo Kown era of enlightenment. Praise the lard, oh God OH my KOON! I came..

Yeah the Plo Koon thing's getting old.

And I dunno, Lightsnake was the usurper of Janus, but Advent's become the de facto master of debates recently.

I call you ignorant because you made an assessment of me based on a singular encounter with me; you don't know who I am or how I act, and thus, you are 'ignorant'. Whether you want to know anything else about me is irrelevant, you still made the assumption, and you did so out of ignorance. You even admitted that you have no knowledge of me, and continue to assume, once again: out of ignorance.

Furthermore, your speculation is as flawed as your assumptions, since, of course, you've yet to prove anything in our other discussion. In fact, instead of addressing my responses, you give argumentative ground and make up new ones instead. You cite no sources, but rather reiterate your opinion, which - sadly - does not measure up to anything but the expressed point of view of a nonexpert. The fact that you admittedly do not wish to provide proof implies a certain lack of evidence entirely. If you can't back it up, don't make the claim in the first place. It'll save you embarrassment.



As we've discussed, your assumptions have one singular pattern: they're always wrong. You did make an ignorant statement, and you are ignorant about me. The fact that you made an assumption (which was incorrect) and then admitted that you really don't have any real knowledge of me to support that opinion means one thing: you weren't in any logical position to make the assumption about a topic (me) that you are uninformed about, thus making you 'ignorant'.

But, y'know what? We won't continue. Not with this, at least, because it isn't going anywhere.

No, you are saying that so you can get the last shot in.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
No, you are saying that so you can get the last shot in.

Do you make a habit out of trying to play a psychic? You suck at it. He can respond if he wants, but he'll just be talking to himself.

I think this can be concluded as 'a new group of regulars argued it until everyone else agreed.'

Earlier it seemed that it was being debated whether or not Sidious was as powerful as he is deemed, but now it seems to have deteriorated to 'Why have things changed?'

That's been answered.

Closing.