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This is Dooku as in RotS and post-KoToR Revan

1. Saber match
2. Force battle
3. All out match

The setting: a simple plain on Naboo.

I actually think the 3 are very close.

Originally posted by Riverollv
This is Dooku as in RotS and post-KoToR Revan

1. Saber match
2. Force battle
3. All out match

The setting: a simple plain on Naboo.

I actually think the 3 are very close.


1. Dooku
2. Revan
3. Revan

I agree with you, Sexy. But they're all close. Well, maybe Revan has clearly the upper hand in the Force, but the other ones are close.

Agree too.

I also agree.

I HAVE FINALLY RETURNED!!!!

Revan takes this, by the way

Originally posted by Riverollv
This is Dooku as in RotS and post-KoToR Revan

1. Saber match
2. Force battle
3. All out match

The setting: a simple plain on Naboo.

I actually think the 3 are very close.
Dooku wins on the first one,
Revan probably wins on second,
And with a very close battle I think Revan pulls through over Dooku

In saber im tempted to go for Revan but maybe Dooku is slightly better. In the other 2 Revan kills the ol' man

1. Count Dooku - decent fight.
2. Revan - decent fight.
3. Revan - decent fight.

1) Dooku is too precise and I doubt he'd be getting overpowered by Revan. I'm saying Dooku.
2) I'm undecided on this one.Revan is known to be one of the greats, but so is Dooku. I vote a stalemate.
3) Dooku, he'd be able to hold off force attacks and overwhelm and Revan in a saber fight.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Dooku has used lightning on many occasions, casually choked Quinlan, brought down Asajj with one finger, used the force to rid himself of poisonous spores, used the force to stop Grievous from dying, his force pushes have been compared to stone walls, and, he has even put Yoda through some stress when Yoda initially blocked Dooku's lightning.

Also, he had 70+ years of learning from either Yoda (the most powerful Jedi), or Sidious (the Granddaddy of all Sith), and probably learned more than would be expected in those decades, due to his lust for power and him being a prodigy (along with access to all sorts of Holocrons).

Dooku, also, despite being a gentleman, knows how to fight dirty when it is called for (the infamous "Kenobi chuck", breaking a students arm in a force competition as a Padawan, and having droids interfere when he Mace confronted him ).

Revan would destroy Dooku in all

Originally posted by xatl
Revan would destroy Dooku in all Wrong, dooku > revan in saber combat, revan > dooku in the force

Originally posted by xatl
Revan would destroy Dooku in all

What you said.

Dooku wins the saber fight 10/10, he's far better then Revan.

As for the Force fight its close, but Revan has the upper hand here.

In an all out battle its near equal as Dooku is a far superior saber duelist and Revan is stronger force wise, but he's not THAT much more powerful force wise then Dooku...so... I give Dooku a 55/45 over Revan in an all out fight. Its damn close.

Yeah, I can tell already... there's going to be a new era of KotoR fanboyism with this guy. Revan's Force powers are stronger than Dooku's, but he does not "destroy" Count Dooku in all categories. Evidence dictates that Dooku is the superior swordsman, and in an all out fight? It'd be hard as hell.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, I can tell already... there's going to be a new era of KotoR fanboyism with this guy.

You're too late of stating that.

Yeah, that didn't make any sense, whatsoever.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, I can tell already... there's going to be a new era of KotoR fanboyism with this guy. Revan's Force powers are stronger than Dooku's, but he does not "destroy" Count Dooku in all categories. Evidence dictates that Dooku is the superior swordsman, and in an all out fight? It'd be hard as hell.

So you think DE Luke is stronger then Revan? As you've stated in so many words that Luke could pretty easily murk Dooku all out yet Revan somehow can't .

It's debateable. Revan wouldn't own him, nor does he outclass him in any aspect, that's for very certain.



New information has come to light on the subject, AC. DE Luke was able to hold his own against Sidious - who would annihilate Revan or Dooku at this point. Of course, then we discover that Leia influenced the lightsaber duel. Of course, this is notwithstanding Luke's prodigious skill at this point, and yes - given what we've seen, Luke could beat Revan.

Thats an interesting view, considering Luke got pissed on by Sidious with the flick of his saber, WITHOUT the aid of Liea and baby Anakin. But I think I smell a new vs topic being made...

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Thats an interesting view, considering Luke got pissed on by Sidious with the flick of his saber, WITHOUT the aid of Liea and baby Anakin. But I think I smell a new vs topic being made...

Perhaps you ought to read the part where I said: "of course, then we discover that Leia influenced the duel." As for Luke 'getting pissed on' by Sidious, so what? What do you imagine would happen were Revan or Count Dooku to try to take on Palpatine at that point? I'd guarentee you that the same thing would happen.

I don't, I'd see Revan lasting a hell of a lot longer then Luke did, and Really I'd like to see Luke's laundry list of powers by DE that make him on par with people like Revan and Yoda, considering he lacks any real formal training other then a crash course in Jedi 101 by Yoda, and while he has raw power on his side at that time (DE) he hasn't fully realized the limits of his raw power. And when you compare him to Revan who has at least 18 years as a Jedi, 5 years as a full Sith Lord, the entire planet of Malachor at his disposal, also a prodigy, and he happens to have the highest level of Battle Precognition the galaxy had ever seen. I'd say Revan would comfortably beat Luke and Dooku.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, that didn't make any sense, whatsoever.

Damnit, I meant to say I'm not a KotoR fanboy.
The reason why I didn't make a lick of since was because of me rushing to the bathroom

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I'd say Revan would comfortably beat Luke and Dooku.

If you can prove it, then I'll concede. But since I only see Yoda and Sidious as of RotS comfortably defeating Dooku - and Revan is weaker than both of them - I don't believe it at all.

1.Dooku
2. Im not sure on this at all, i guess Revan
3. I would give the edge to Count Dooku in all out fight, he is just so good all around, one of the best swordsman ever and clearly very powerful with the force.

I give this to revan, i think he is better overall.

By the way, i don't understand this but, it was stated that dooku owns revan with his lightsaber? Because everybody seems to take this as a cannon fact...

...was it ever stated otherwise?

I do not understand that where this theory of "Dooku being better then Revan in Saber Combat" came from?

First of all, we need to check some facts that provide a good account of Revan's melee skills.

Case A) Revan killed two Terentatek beasts with ease in a single combat in the Tomb of Naga Sadow.

Now just imagine the level of skill that would be required to accomplish this feat and also keep the following facts in mind:

- Terentatek beasts are immune to Force attacks.
- These monsters were dubbed as "Jedi killers" for a good reason.

So this feat shows that Revan seems to possess exceptional melee combat skills.

Case B) Revan killed Yusanis in a single combat. Now Yusanis is the greatest Echani warrior ever known and was among the top swordsmen in his time. Defeating Yusanis in melee combat was not a small feat. Echani warriors believed that Revan's precognition capabilities were superior to that of Yusanis and thus that helped him a lot in this clash.

Case C) Revan also killed Malak in a duel and as evident from a Duron's vision, Malak was struck down in a Light Saber clash. And Malak was also among the top swordsmen of his age and was possibly adept in offensive Saber techniques including Juyo.

So all these cases suggest that Revan was adept in melee combat as well. But the problem is that we do not know about the full extent of Revan's melee capabilities.

So I really cannot declare that whether Dooku > Revan in Saber Combat or not. And at-least "Case A" makes Revan's case a bit stronger in this regard.

So all those who are outrightly stating that Dooku > Revan in Saber Combat are actually making a mistake because there is no canonical evidence to back this up.

Dooku: better lightsaber duelist.
Revan: supposed superior force powers.
Dooku: edges the all out war, he's equally as powerful as Revan if maybe slightly weaker, but coupled with his excellent dueling capabilities I see him beating Revan by a hair.

Originally posted by Allankles
Dooku: better lightsaber duelist.
Revan: supposed superior force powers.
Dooku: edges the all out war, he's equally as powerful as Revan if maybe slightly weaker, but coupled with his excellent dueling capabilities I see him beating Revan by a hair.

Dooku has an advantage with a saber, if ANYTHING. In an all out battle, Revan is the superior tactician and the superior force user. Dooku has a small chance but that's it.

Dooku is as much a tactician as Revan is (if not more so), in fact Dooku has been shown to be a very deliberate/methodical tactician. As far as force powers go, they are almost equals, couple this with Dooku's superior swordsmanship and I see Dooku edging the contest.

Dooku is all about precision and planning, to beat him you have to be aggressive and try to overwhelm him, as out thinking him isn't likely to work.

Originally posted by Allankles
Dooku has been shown to be a very deliberate/methodical tactician. As far as force powers go, they are almost equals, couple this with Dooku's superior swordsmanship and I see Dooku edging the contest.
What are you on drugs? Dooku is nowhere near Revan in terms of superior tactics, nor near him in force abilities. Your argument is preposterous because it argues against facts, as you usually do.



And yet again. Revan>Dooku in planning
Revan>Dooku in force abilities. No way in hell Dooku is winning this unless he magically gets close to Revan with his saber.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No way in hell Dooku is winning this unless he magically gets close to Revan with his saber.

Great argument: Revan is so uber he wouldn't even bother getting into a saber duel. Yet Dooku was considerably powerful enough to survive duels with the likes of Yoda and Mace.

Are you trying to suggest that Revan is so superior to Dooku in the force he wouldn't allow Dooku to engage him in a saber duel?

Let's put things into perspective. Dooku is too powerful to be beaten down by force powers alone. Only a DE Sidious would have the power for that. As happens with two equally powerful combatants, they'd engage in a saber duel and Dooku beats Revan by a hair.

Nothing Revan would do, would give him a brief victory via force powers and vice versa, they'd engage and Dooku comes out on top for me.

Originally posted by Allankles
Great argument: Revan is so uber he wouldn't even bother getting into a saber duel. Yet Dooku was considerably powerful enough to survive duels with the likes of Yoda and Mace.
Um yea. He WOULDNT get into a saber duel, that's why I said that is the only chance Dooku has, by somehow getting Revan into a saber duel. And his survival with Mace and Yoda have nothing to do with anything except saber abilities and the fact that Yoda and Mace both wanted to turn him back. Way to prove nothing once again.


Yup. Yoda is just the same.


Uh no? Dooku's power lies mainly in his saber abilities. He's got nothing on the likes of Sidious, Yoda, or Revan. They are NOT equally powerful. Revan is superior to him in the force and Dooku is likely superior to Revan in saber combat.

Good thing this forum is based on facts and logical deduction, not moronic opinions supported by gibberish.

Allankles, Dooku has not been proven to be anywhere near Revan's level in terms of military tactics. Is he a brilliant, clever man? Certainly. Is he - diplomatically and politically - Revan's obvious superior? Certainly. Is he a warlord? Hell no. Why do you think he relied on General Grievous? Dooku is obviously not a military tactition by any stretch.

That said, LeGenD, you've proven absolutely nothing. Count Dooku was "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty five thousand year history", "an even greater Lord of the Sith", and spent eight decades refining Makashi - the ultimate lightsaber-to-lightsaber form. I'd say that's a fair bit more than what Revan accomplished. Hell, Dooku trained General Grievous and defeated him in combat, and he was dubbed a "Jedi killer" in a much more legendary and capable fashion than any Terentatek beast. Hell, Grievous's Magnaguards were "Jedi killers" too. As was Asajj Ventress, all of which would curbstomp two Terentateks.

Case "A" does shit.

Way to prove a god dam thing. You're completely clueless Sexy. Revan wouldn't be able to stop Dooku from enganging him in a saber duel, it just doesn't work like that. When was the last time you saw a Sith of the calibre of Dooku get pwned without a Saber duel?

Not to mention that if at all, Revan is Dooku's superior in the force, it certainly not by much. You're completely ridiculous with your opinions on Revan. The guy isn't beating Dooku on force powers alone, no way.

Above

Originally posted by Gideon
Allankles, Dooku has not been proven to be anywhere near Revan's level in terms of military tactics. Is he a brilliant, clever man? Certainly. Is he - diplomatically and politically - Revan's obvious superior? Certainly. Is he a warlord? Hell no. Why do you think he relied on General Grievous? Dooku is obviously not a military tactition by any stretch.

That said, LeGenD, you've proven absolutely nothing. Count Dooku was "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty five thousand year history", "an even greater Lord of the Sith", and spent eight decades refining Makashi - the ultimate lightsaber-to-lightsaber form. I'd say that's a fair bit more than what Revan accomplished. Hell, Dooku trained General Grievous and defeated him in combat, and he was dubbed a "Jedi killer" in a much more legendary and capable fashion than any Terentatek beast. Hell, Grievous's Magnaguards were "Jedi killers" too. As was Asajj Ventress, all of which would curbstomp two Terentateks.

Case "A" does shit.

Not to sound condescending Escape, but how did he refine Makashi for 8 decades when he died at what, 82? Just pointing out a minor error.

Originally posted by Allankles
Way to prove a god dam thing. You're completely clueless Sexy. Revan wouldn't be able to stop Dooku from enganging him in a saber duel, it just doesn't work like that. When was the last time you saw a Sith of the calibre of Dooku get pwned without a Saber duel?
I rest my case dumbass. Go back to the drawing board.



Denial is a powerful ally you butt honkey.

Touche. Seven decades.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I rest my case dumbass. Go back to the drawing board.



Denial is a powerful ally you butt honkey.

Answer the question moron. When did you ever see a force user the calibre of Dooku get pwned without getting a chance to engage with Sabers?

You rest your case? You didn't have one. Asserting that your god Revan beats Dooku with force powers alone, are the ramblings of a irrational fanboy, nothing more. We don't have anything to argue about here.

I'm divided; the assertion that Darth Revan will be able to defeat Count Dooku - in no-bars-held fight - using simply the Force is a stretch. I will add some clarification and say that if it happens, Darth Sexy, it will be far from easy. I don't see Dooku getting defeated by single applications of the Force unless you are simply ahead of him by a good distance - Yoda and Sidious. In a lightsaber fight, I think it would be a good fight, but logic and evidence indicate that Dooku'd definately come out ahead. It all depends; Revan's lack of prior knowledge about Dooku would also limit his arsenal of planning ability against him, unlike Sidious or Yoda who know that Dooku prefers to fight with his lightsaber rather than the Force. The 'planning ability' won't be much of a help.

Actually, i can see this duel being similar to the Yoda and Sidious duel. Im fairly certain Revan wouldnt get cut down the second he engaged Dooku close range. He would most likely fight for a few seconds and then evaluate Dooku's skill and whether he (Revan) can pull off a win or not in a saber duel. IF Revan realizes that he will be unable to achieve victory close ranged, he would most likely disengage and put some distance between himself and dooku. Attacking with all of the force attacks he could effectively use, if his attacks dont outright kill dooku, they will atleast slow him down and wear him out, possibly enough to the point where Revan can safely rengage in a saber duel and pull of a win against a weakened Dooku. And considering Revan isnt an idiot this will probably be his course of action. Of course this only applies to the all-out battle.

Well those are my two cents.

Originally posted by The Overmaster
Actually, i can see this duel being similar to the Yoda and Sidious duel. Im fairly certain Revan wouldnt get cut down the second he engaged Dooku close range. He would most likely fight for a few seconds and then evaluate Dooku's skill and whether he (Revan) can pull off a win or not in a saber duel. IF Revan realizes that he will be unable to achieve victory close ranged, he would most likely disengage and put some distance between himself and dooku. Attacking with all of the force attacks he could effectively use, if his attacks dont outright kill dooku, they will atleast slow him down and wear him out, possibly enough to the point where Revan can safely rengage in a saber duel and pull of a win against a weakened Dooku. And considering Revan isnt an idiot this will probably be his course of action. Of course this only applies to the all-out battle.

Well those are my two cents.

It's a fairer assessment than most. But disengaging from a saber duel isn't so cut and dry and might get you killed. If the contest takes place on a flat platform disengaging will be very difficult if not impossible. If Dooku sensed Revan's discomfort in a saber duel he'd press the advantage with all he had.

Originally posted by Gideon
That said, LeGenD, you've proven absolutely nothing. Count Dooku was "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty five thousand year history", "an even greater Lord of the Sith", and spent eight decades refining Makashi - the ultimate lightsaber-to-lightsaber form. I'd say that's a fair bit more than what Revan accomplished. Hell, Dooku trained General Grievous and defeated him in combat, and he was dubbed a "Jedi killer" in a much more legendary and capable fashion than any Terentatek beast. Hell, Grievous's Magnaguards were "Jedi killers" too. As was Asajj Ventress, all of which would curbstomp two Terentateks.

Case "A" does shit.
How do you know that the Jedi or the Droids that you mentioned would be able to curbstomp two Terentateks in a single fight?

You just seem to underestimate Terentateks very much. And you also have actually proved nothing.

And Dooku could be declared as a "Jedi Killer" because he was a powerful Sith Lord. And a Sith Lord being declared as a Jedi killer does not surprises anybody.

Terentateks were actually dubbed as "Jedi Killers" because they were so strong, vicious and dangerous creatures that they were declared to be a big threat to the Jedi by the Jedi Council itself.

Some facts about Terentateks:

- Terentateks were physically very strong creatures and were heavily armored and immune to most Force attacks.

- These beasts also fed on the blood of Force sensitives and many Jedi have been killed by them including the top Jedi hunters of KOTOR period. And very few Jedi have dared to fight these monsters.

Originally posted by Gideon
It all depends; Revan's lack of prior knowledge about Dooku would also limit his arsenal of planning ability against him, unlike Sidious or Yoda who know that Dooku prefers to fight with his lightsaber rather than the Force. The 'planning ability' won't be much of a help.
And Dooku knows Revan very well, right?

And what about Revan's precognition capabilities?

Yes, IF Dooku beats Revan in a saber, it will not be an easy fight, it will be in fact a very, very tough fight for Dooku. Let's not take Revan so lightly in saber combat here. If Dooku gets careless or understimates him, he might even lose.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm divided; the assertion that Darth Revan will be able to defeat Count Dooku - in no-bars-held fight - using simply the Force is a stretch. I will add some clarification and say that if it happens, Darth Sexy, it will be far from easy. I don't see Dooku getting defeated by single applications of the Force unless you are simply ahead of him by a good distance - Yoda and Sidious. In a lightsaber fight, I think it would be a good fight, but logic and evidence indicate that Dooku'd definately come out ahead. It all depends; Revan's lack of prior knowledge about Dooku would also limit his arsenal of planning ability against him, unlike Sidious or Yoda who know that Dooku prefers to fight with his lightsaber rather than the Force. The 'planning ability' won't be much of a help.

Sidious knew he couldn't defeat Yoda in saber combat so what did he do? He somehow got distance between himself and Yoda and kept it, and they were EQUALS. You're telling me Revan, who is superior in the force and in battle tactics, couldn't get separate himself from Dooku? And in a saber fight it would be a good fight. You're not the best in an order of tens of thousands and suck at saber combat.

Allankles, as usual you're wasting everybody's time so I'm not gonig to respond to your nonsense. Stop posting here.

Ok, i don't to insist on this again but Canderous was among the mandalorians that saw ullic quel-droma fighting mandalore or even exar kun. Well, i think it's quite common sense that ullic's lightsaber abilities were almost legendary, yet canderous said revan was the greatest "warrior" the galaxy had ever seen.

And since i don't believe dooku was better then ullic with his lightsaber (if he had ever fought anyone without the force he would have being crushed in seconds), i don't hve valid reasons to beleive that dooku>revan with lightsaber.

By the way, i wanted to add this: "Al hail the Mysterious Stranger, the greatest duelist to ever grace the rings of Taris". Ok, this Revan had not the force to help him, just his fighting abilities...

Originally posted by Allankles
Dooku: better lightsaber duelist.
I acknowledge Dooku to be among the finest swordsmen of his age. But him being better then Revan in swordsmanship is questionable and there is no canonical evidence to back this assertion up.

Originally posted by Allankles
Revan: supposed superior force powers.
Revan is stronger then Dooku in the Force. Get over it.

Originally posted by Allankles
Dooku: edges the all out war, he's equally as powerful as Revan if maybe slightly weaker, but coupled with his excellent dueling capabilities I see him beating Revan by a hair.
Revan is more powerful then Dooku. He will win after a decent fight.

Your assumption is not convincing.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sidious knew he couldn't defeat Yoda in saber combat so what did he do? He somehow got distance between himself and Yoda and kept it, and they were EQUALS. You're telling me Revan, who is superior in the force and in battle tactics, couldn't get separate himself from Dooku? And in a saber fight it would be a good fight. You're not the best in an order of tens of thousands and suck at saber combat.

Allankles, as usual you're wasting everybody's time so I'm not gonig to respond to your nonsense. Stop posting here.

Dooku is just as proficient as Revan if not more so in battle tactics (I've never mentioned that Dooku was a great military tactician, just a great planner and a great tactican in one on one dueling). Dooku knows all about tactics in single's combat (he was a battlemaster for years afterall), Revan isn't out thinking him in this situation.

As far as Sidious disengaging from a saber fight, we have to consider that they were fighting on an uneven platform, so disengaging was easier. If they were fighting on a flat platform how would Sidious have disengaged? He'd have to keep fighting with sabers, or don't you understand the difficulty of disengaging?

Dueling doesn't play out like some d&d rule book, disengaging isn't so cut and dry and isn't likely to happen if the fight takes place on even ground.

I never said that; quit putting words in my mouth, jackass. You and Darth Sexy seem to be banking on Revan's amazing strategic abilities to give him an endless advantage over Dooku. That's not going to be the case, Revan won't be pulling up a 'Defeating Dooku: 101' plan from his ass, two seconds into the fight. He's got no prior knowledge in regards to Count Dooku, so if he comes up with a plan, it'll be after the fighting has already begun. Revan's no Thrawn.

As for Dooku "knowing Revan very well", I could be a smartass and point out that Dooku is a trained Sith Lord, apprentice to the smartest and most knowledgeable of Sith Lords, and then I could also point out that - since Revan is easily one of the most infamous and successful Sith Lords - he'd likely know quite a bit about him.

But I don't have to say that, I rarely deal in 'probabilities', even though the likelihood of Dooku knowing about Revan is quite high.



That didn't save him from Malak's betrayal. Precognition isn't infallible. I could point out that any decent Jedi or Sith would have decent precognition - and Dooku is "one of the most powerful" in the Order's history, and an even greater Sith Lord - thus indicating the disparity between himself and Revan isn't as large as you'd think.



We've been through this before. Evidence and logic conclude that Sidious opted for a long ranged assault because it was his speciality, and it would put distance between him and Yoda, not that he couldn't necessarily defeat him.

You said it yourself; they're equals. If Yoda's the better duelist, they wouldn't be equals, which defies... everything.



Sidious =/= Revan. Yoda was a revered military commander and Sidious was a politician; who fought smarter? The politician. Revan's uber combat reverance doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to fight smarter than Count Dooku in single combat.



I'm telling you that he isn't going to be pulling a 'I-know-how-to-beat-Dooku' plan from his ass, and he's not going to be owning or defeating Dooku with just the Force in an all out fight.



Right.

Dooku was "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty five thousand year history" and "an even greater Sith Lord" during a time when his peers were Mace the deadliest lightsaber style ever (That means his style > Revan's)] and Yoda .

Spin it all you like. Revan's ahead of Dooku by hairs at most.

Originally posted by Gideon
I never said that; quit putting words in my mouth, jackass. You and Darth Sexy seem to be banking on Revan's amazing strategic abilities to give him an endless advantage over Dooku. That's not going to be the case, Revan won't be pulling up a 'Defeating Dooku: 101' plan from his ass, two seconds into the fight. He's got no prior knowledge in regards to Count Dooku, so if he comes up with a plan, it'll be after the fighting has already begun. Revan's no Thrawn.

As for Dooku "knowing Revan very well", I could be a smartass and point out that Dooku is a trained Sith Lord, apprentice to the smartest and most knowledgeable of Sith Lords, and then I could also point out that - since Revan is easily one of the most infamous and successful Sith Lords - he'd likely know quite a bit about him.

But I don't have to say that, I rarely deal in 'probabilities', even though the likelihood of Dooku knowing about Revan is quite high.



That didn't save him from Malak's betrayal. Precognition isn't infallible. I could point out that any decent Jedi or Sith would have decent precognition - and Dooku is "one of the most powerful" in the Order's history, and an even greater Sith Lord - thus indicating the disparity between himself and Revan isn't as large as you'd think.



We've been through this before. Evidence and logic conclude that Sidious opted for a long ranged assault because it was his speciality, and it would put distance between him and Yoda, not that he couldn't necessarily defeat him.

You said it yourself; they're equals. If Yoda's the better duelist, they wouldn't be equals, which defies... everything.



Sidious =/= Revan. Yoda was a revered military commander and Sidious was a politician; who fought smarter? The politician. Revan's uber combat reverance doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to fight smarter than Count Dooku in single combat.



I'm telling you that he isn't going to be pulling a 'I-know-how-to-beat-Dooku' plan from his ass, and he's not going to be owning or defeating Dooku with just the Force in an all out fight.



Right.

Dooku was "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty five thousand year history" and "an even greater Sith Lord" during a time when his peers were Mace the deadliest lightsaber style ever (That means his style > Revan's)] and Yoda .

Spin it all you like. Revan's ahead of Dooku by hairs at most.

Is it Dookus fighting style with form II that is going to give revan the problems??? I have just seen people posting that he will win in saber combat but they gives no reason why he would win so that why I ask.

And wasn't Dooku "one of the most powerful jedi's to have left the order" not the most powerful overall?

And maybe Revan don't sensing the attack by Malak had something to do with him being engaged by 3 jedies on his bridge.

Yes.



No. The RotS novelization confirms that Dooku was "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty five thousand year history" and "an even greater Sith Lord". Meaning he ranks up there with the very best in either category (Sith or Jedi).



That has nothing to do with it. Precognition can't be preoccupied. The Emperor was torturing the hell out of Luke, and didn't forsee/sense Vader's fall. This was his own doing, in this situation he lacked the power to sense Vader's inner conflict. Revan didn't forsee Malak's betrayal because he couldn't.

Tall claim. You might wanna ask Advent or ACstyles to come in and take over this argument on your behalf, because statements like this require proof.



...Right. And this has to do with... what? Revan's fights /= Dooku's fights. They weren't the same, so Revan being 'undefeated' doesn't mean shit when comparing him to Dooku, since their struggles and tribulations were different and against different people.



This is what I'm talking about. If you can't learn to read, we don't need to debate. You have Revan so far up your ass it's effecting your eyesight. I have - in several previous arguments and in this - acknowledged that Revan is a superb tactition. If you'd learn to read, however, I said that he's no Thrawn and that he wouldn't be pulling a plan out of his ass.



Jesus, you're stupid. Okay, did Krayt not know of Palpatine simply because he didn't have Palpatine's holocron? Oh, wait! A lowly lieutenant makes reference to Palpatine in the Legacy comics. One must assume that the successes and failures of previous Sith are something that is taught. Perhaps Sith history?



'Sith history' /= technique...



Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... you actually thought about me being an idiot? Great job! We're making progress. See if you can scramble to find the extra IQ points to think - yes, actually think - about the debate at hand.



...If Revan's foresight and precognition were so amazing, he'd have knew about Malak's betrayal before it happened. Guess what? He didn't.



You amaze me with your stupidity. If you continue to debate like this, don't bother continuing this argument, and concede. I have not said that Revan's precognition sucks. Just that it isn't infallible.



Mace was a master of Shatterpoint, yes, not heralded for his foresight. Shatterpoint detects weaknesses, precognition gives you the foresight to see future events. He failed to forsee Anakin's betrayal.



I could make a whole list of reasons that would debunk this little theory, but I don't have to. I never said Sidious was infallible. Of course he's fallible. He's dead, isn't he? He was eventually defeated.



I never said that Revan sucked, you dumbass.



Stick to your argument, not witty insults.



He was.



No, Yoda himself acknowledged that Sidious couldn't be beaten in that situation.



I never denied Revan's military genius.



Those politicians /= Sidious or Dooku.



What's this supposed to prove?



You've yet to prove it.



Dooku lacks precognition? I've told you that no one has infallible precognition, so declaring that it will be justification for their victory is ridiculous.



No, no. Myths are false. This would be fact.



Lmao! I ought to indulge myself on a string of insults declaring how stupid you are. Yoda is 'the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known' you jackass. The excerpt you quoted proves it.

The 'just didn't have it part'? That signifies that he couldn't - and he didn't - defeat Sidious that day. Not that he wasn't the most powerful foe of the darkness.



No. Yoda and Sidious are not far stronger than Dooku, you freakin' fanboy, and both of them are more powerful than Revan.



Drew /= Lucas. He can't make such claims.



Because he was the more powerful duelist, yes.



Dooku has:

- Supreme mastery of Makashi
- Exceptional Force mastery
- Far more experience than Revan
- Excellent manipulator and political tactition
- Use of the Force where 'physical strength' is irrelevant



You jackass fanboy, Dooku's going to lose the Force and all out fights, and he's going to win the saber fight. And they're all going to be difficult fights.

Wile i am of opinion that Revan is more powerful with the Force(by a little, not by huge margin as some fanboys are saying)the Revan fanboys are making me to ask, where is this canonically stated, show me a quote, where it says Revan is stronger then Dooku in the Force.

Indeed. Revan 'is' more powerful than Count Dooku in the Force, and is most assuredly the superior military tactition. But the disparity between Dooku and Revan is not far. LeGenD's assertion that Revan is far more powerful than Dooku speaks volumes about his fanboyism. Not even Sidious or Yoda can be considered 'far' above Dooku, so Revan is most assuredly not.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Wile i am of opinion that Revan is more powerful with the Force(by a little, not by huge margin as some fanboys are saying)the Revan fanboys are making me to ask, where is this canonically stated, show me a quote, where it says Revan is stronger then Dooku in the Force.
I agree that revan was a little stronger in the force. Dooku would win in a saber combat. The all out fight could go either way.

As far as quotes about Revan Kreia said this "Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force." You guys can make your own opinion on the quote.The only other thing I could think of off the top of my head was that Bane said Revan's holocron had more knowledge than Korriban. Or something along those lines. And didn't Bane say later on that Revan knew force techniques that he (Bane) was scared to try?

Originally posted by Gideon
Dooku has:

- Supreme mastery of Makashi
Revan has supreme mastery in Jar Kai, which has no real weaknesses.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Exceptional Force mastery
And so is Revan's mastery.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Far more experience than Revan
You ignorance is superb. Real combat experience is actually gained from exposure to very dangerous situations and such situations are mostly experienced in case of a WAR.

Now Dooku has fought in one major conflict known as Clone Wars. Revan has fought in two major wars, which means that Revan has more combat experience.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Excellent manipulator and political tactition
And Revan is also a master planner and schemer and knows how to deal with politicians.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Use of the Force where 'physical strength' is irrelevant
Strength always contributes in a fight. A person with greater strength does not tires quickly.

Anakin was physically stronger then Dooku and Dooku had a hard time in matching his moves.

Originally posted by Gideon
You jackass fanboy, Dooku's going to lose the Force and all out fights, and he's going to win the saber fight. And they're all going to be difficult fights.
Dooku's victory in case of Saber Combat is questionable, since we have no source to back this up and considering Revan's superior precognition in mind.

My understanding and comprehension isn't in question here. Yours is.



This is my very final warning: if you're going to debate this poorly, don't bother arguing with me. I never said that Dooku's struggles and challenges were harder than Revan's, but rather that they were different. To say that 'Revan faced more dangerous challenges' would require proof.



This is absolute ****ing stupidity, you dumbass.

I NEVER SAID THAT REVAN COULDN'T HANDLE DOOKU!!!!!!



I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS. IN A FORCE FIGHT AND IN AN ALL OUT FIGHT, REVAN WOULD WIN. DOES THIS MASSIVE TEXT SIZE MAKE IT ANY CLEARER?



I SAID THAT HE COULN'T PULL A PLAN OUT OF HIS ASS, NOT THAT HE COULDN'T CONSTRUCT A PLAN WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A DUEL.



I DIDN'T DENY THIS...



Jesus Christ! Which means what, you jackass? That Revan was one of the very most successful Sith Lords ought to make it quite clear that Dooku knows about him.



You are without a shadow of a doubt the dumbest person on these forums. Seriously. Nebaris and LORDSIDIOUS on their worst days are ten times smarter than you have ever proven yourself capable of.



I need to speak with Ush and REX about implementing an IQ requirement to participate in this forums. Words cannot begin to gauge the depth of your stupidity... I have said on previous occasions and several times during this thread that Revan was one of the most successful Sith ever, hence why Palpatine and Dooku would know of him.

Pull your copy of KotoR out of your ass and get some glasses.



What part of "he should have known about Malak's capability for treason prior" do you not understand? That he was distracted during the fact is irrelevant.



Don't tell me what Revan was thinking. He was a damn video game character.



Sure it is.



No, you jackass. AotC made it clear that the Jedi's ability to sense the future was being diminished by the dark side . Hell, Mace thought that "the fear" he sensed was Palpatine's, when in truth - it was Anakin's fear as per the novelization. He was incapable of seeing what might happen.



By basing his victory apparently off of precognition, yes, what you said is tantamount to crediting Revan infallibility.



Sidious used his foresight to map out decades worth of plans. His foresight is, logic concludes, miles ahead of Revan's. But, even then, do I fellate his ability to see the future? No. Because it is fallible, so one must assume in a hypothetical situation that it will not always work. As is the case with Revan, period.



I acknowledge their damn feats, you idiot. You're the one giving Revan a fellatio.



Yes! He was.



That comes from the databank, you jackass. The movies, novelization, script > the databank.



He was equal to Sidious because the fight ended in a stalemate, you jackass.



No, Sidious wasn't.



Yes, thanks for the update, fanboy.



Which means jack shit...



So what? Thrawn manipulated New Republic politics quite often. Does that make him on par with Dooku, a thoroughly educated and experienced politician? No. Does it put him on par with Darth 'I succeeded where Revan failed' Sidious? Hell no. Revan dealing with politicians does not make him a political mastermind.



Prove that Revan was a better schemer and planner than Dooku.



No, he won't. Revan's precognition is fallible. To say that he 'will determine every move made by Dooku' is fallacious. If I need to get REX and Ush here to slam that cold fact down your throat , by all means, I can.



Yes, it is a fact.



The omniscient narrator called Yoda "the most powerful ever".



You idiot! Being "the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known" does not make you "more powerful" than the darkness itself! It means that you are simply more powerful than any other lightsider prior, which he was.

They are stronger by a comfortable amount. But by a large one? Hardly.



Prove it.



Drew is NOT George Lucas. I don't dispute that he made the statements, but that does not make them valid. Only George Lucas and Leeland Chee can make such calls. Period.



Vader? Yes.



According to Drew, who merely gave his opinion on the question. He is not Lucas. Period.



No.



That doesn't make it valid. But even if we took that as the truth, that means if Revan "really concentrated" he could perform a feat on par with Yoda a few months before his death.

Gee...



I said that he was the more powerful duelist, jackass.



All forms have weaknesses.



No one's disputing that.



You ignorance is superb? Try 'your ignorance is superb'.



Wrong. Dooku's constant dueling with Jedi, Dark Side adepts, and participation in constant sparring for seven decades would give him superior dueling experience.



I love this shitty fanboy logic.



...He knows how to deal with politicians in a militaristic way. He's not a political mastermind, like Dooku.



Dooku could replenish his energy reserves in the Force quite handily and quite easily.



...Because, unlike Revan, Anakin becomes stronger as the fight progresses. That is why Dooku couldn't meet him blow-for-blow.



No, it isn't.



Please deliver me a source indicating Revan's superior ability.



Which isn't infallible, therefore, it cannot be gambled upon.

This is the very final time I'm going to say this: your ability to debate is pathetic. It's the worst I've seen on these forums. You constantly reiterate points I've already acknowledged with the only goal of fellating Revan even more. You pull bogus and bullshit 'statements' out of your ass: "Revan will determine all of Dooku's moves!!" and then you try to interpret logic your own horrendous way. You don't ****ing think, and it's because you're more concerned about Revan's uberness.

Do not bother arguing this point if you're going to debate like this. Get ACstyles or Advent to pick up the slack, because you are beyond hope.

Looks like I have touched a nerve! Seriously get a life - Gideon!

Originally posted by Gideon
My understanding and comprehension isn't in question here. Yours is.

You can't understand simple points made by me and you question my level of understanding?

Have you clearly understood what I am trying to say over-all?

Originally posted by Gideon
This is my very final warning: if you're going to debate this poorly, don't bother arguing with me. I never said that Dooku's struggles and challenges were harder than Revan's, but rather that they were different. To say that 'Revan faced more dangerous challenges' would require proof.
Being different is not in question here. I am talking about the difficulty level of challenges.

Dooku fought against some opponents. Revan also fought against some opponents. Now what is so different here?

And I have already given you proof of Revan winning in fight that was much harder then the challenge that Dooku will give him. Do you have eyes or not?

Originally posted by Gideon
This is absolute ****ing stupidity, you dumbass.

I NEVER SAID THAT REVAN COULDN'T HANDLE DOOKU!!!!!!
You are saying the Revan is better then Dooku by a hair, you dumb retard.

I am questioning this because Revan has fought and won in a much harder fight that Dooku can give to Revan.

Originally posted by Gideon
I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS. IN A FORCE FIGHT AND IN AN ALL OUT FIGHT, REVAN WOULD WIN. DOES THIS MASSIVE TEXT SIZE MAKE IT ANY CLEARER?
PROVE TO ME THAT DOOKU CAN DEFEAT REVAN IN SABER COMBAT AS WELL. MASTERY OF MAKASHI IS NOT ENOUGH ANSWER.

Originally posted by Gideon
I SAID THAT HE COULN'T PULL A PLAN OUT OF HIS ASS, NOT THAT HE COULDN'T CONSTRUCT A PLAN WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A DUEL.
REVAN CAN TAKE NOTE OF CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH HE WILL BE DEALING WITH DOOKU. IF HE FINDS ANY ADVANTAGE, HE WILL EXPLOIT IT.

Originally posted by Gideon
I DIDN'T DENY THIS...
FINE.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jesus Christ! Which means what, you jackass? That Revan was one of the very most successful Sith Lords ought to make it quite clear that Dooku knows about him.
He probably would but that does not means that he knows all about Revan's knowledge.

Originally posted by Gideon
You are without a shadow of a doubt the dumbest person on these forums. Seriously. Nebaris and LORDSIDIOUS on their worst days are ten times smarter than you have ever proven yourself capable of.
You are absolutely the most retard person in this forum. I never make as much stupid claims as Nebaris and LORDSIDIOUS would have made. But they are entitled to their opinions and I am to mine.

Originally posted by Gideon
I need to speak with Ush and REX about implementing an IQ requirement to participate in this forums. Words cannot begin to gauge the depth of your stupidity... I have said on previous occasions and several times during this thread that Revan was one of the most successful Sith ever, hence why Palpatine and Dooku would know of him.
You can try!

And this forum is for everybody and not just you.

Originally posted by Gideon
Pull your copy of KotoR out of your ass and get some glasses.
A totally irrelevant and stupid remark.

Originally posted by Gideon
What part of "he should have known about Malak's capability for treason prior" do you not understand? That he was distracted during the fact is irrelevant.
Malak never showed any signs of betrayal before. He was looking for a nice opportunity. And he was a friend of Revan, so he could be trusted to some extent.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't tell me what Revan was thinking. He was a damn video game character.
OMG? You have absolutely proved that you are a big retard. What does a game have to do with Revan's thinking ability?

Originally posted by Gideon
No, you jackass. AotC made it clear that the Jedi's ability to sense the future was being diminished by the dark side . Hell, Mace thought that "the fear" he sensed was Palpatine's, when in truth - it was Anakin's fear as per the novelization. He was incapable of seeing what might happen.
Mace recognized Anakin's fear much earlier. He did not trusted Anakin for a good reason. When he was engaged against Sidious, he was distracted and thus could not focus on intentions of Anakin. Is this hard to grasp?

Originally posted by Gideon
By basing his victory apparently off of precognition, yes, what you said is tantamount to crediting Revan infallibility.
So do you agree that Revan can beat Dooku in melee combat due to his superior precognition?

Originally posted by Gideon
Sidious used his foresight to map out decades worth of plans. His foresight is, logic concludes, miles ahead of Revan's. But, even then, do I fellate his ability to see the future? No. Because it is fallible, so one must assume in a hypothetical situation that it will not always work. As is the case with Revan, period.
Revan's precognition is not as weak as you try to make it sound.

Originally posted by Gideon
I acknowledge their damn feats, you idiot. You're the one giving Revan a fellatio.
You underestimate Revan.

Originally posted by Gideon
That comes from the databank, you jackass. The movies, novelization, script > the databank.
Show me the quote from the Novelization and do provide a link as well, so that I can verify the accuracy of the quote.

Originally posted by Gideon
He was equal to Sidious because the fight ended in a stalemate, you jackass.
And then Yoda decided to run, right?

Man! Sidious was laughing at Yoda in most part of the duel. He was too much for Yoda to handle

If they were truely equals, Yoda would have done some harm to Sidious but he could not.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, Sidious wasn't.
Sidious would defeat Yoda at any given time or place.

Originally posted by Gideon
Which means jack shit...
Politicians can be smart fighters, right? Well! Revan dealt with some.

Originally posted by Gideon
So what? Thrawn manipulated New Republic politics quite often. Does that make him on par with Dooku, a thoroughly educated and experienced politician? No. Does it put him on par with Darth 'I succeeded where Revan failed' Sidious? Hell no. Revan dealing with politicians does not make him a political mastermind.
Revan failed because of an early betrayal, you retard.

Revan was smart enough to deal with smartness of politicians.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove that Revan was a better schemer and planner than Dooku.
Check all the details of Mando wars and JCW.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, he won't. Revan's precognition is fallible. To say that he 'will determine every move made by Dooku' is fallacious. If I need to get REX and Ush here to slam that cold fact down your throat , by all means, I can.
Revan proved your notion wrong by dealing with Yusanis.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes, it is a fact.
Prove it.

Originally posted by Gideon
The omniscient narrator called Yoda "the most powerful ever".
He has been proven wrong then.

Originally posted by Gideon
You idiot! Being "the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known" does not make you "more powerful" than the darkness itself! It means that you are simply more powerful than any other lightsider prior, which he was.
Did I said that being the most powerful foe of the darkness makes you > darkness itself? You better stop putting words in my mouth.

And Yoda was the most powerful Jedi in his time and not prior to him and not after him.

Originally posted by Gideon
They are stronger by a comfortable amount. But by a large one? Hardly.
Yoda defeated Dooku twice and that too comfortably. This clearly means that Yoda > Dooku by a large margin.

And Sidious is even more powerful then Yoda. Dooku is no match for him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove it.
The comment made by Drew backs my point. So I have a SW Author supporting my view, which means something, right?

Apart from this Revan was very powerful in the Force and several characters acknowledged this.

Jedi Master Kriea: "Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi. he would slay etched on his soul."

Ajunta Pall: "The Force is so strong in you."

Additionally, Revan destroyed a SF empowered Malak in the battle, whose Force Mastery by the end of KOTOR was greater then that of Dooku by a comfortable margin.

Also it was indicated in the POD Novel that Revan's Force Mastery was enough to scare Darth Bane. Revan knew some techniques that were too dangerous for even a Sith Lord to try.

Revan knew many offensive Force techniques and his knowledge in the Force was far greater then that of Malak, who was among the most powerful Sith Lords of his age.

If Yoda destroyed an Hellfire Droid with the Force, Revan destroyed an entire army of the powerful SF Battle Droids on the Star Forge with the Force. Malak acknowledged this feat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Drew is NOT George Lucas. I don't dispute that he made the statements, but that does not make them valid. Only George Lucas and Leeland Chee can make such calls. Period.
His comments hold more credibilty then ours though.

Originally posted by Gideon
Vader? Yes.
Bane and Revan can do that well.

Originally posted by Gideon
According to Drew, who merely gave his opinion on the question. He is not Lucas. Period.
Again! he is more knowledgeable then us and knows his shit.

Originally posted by Gideon
No.
Yes! it is.

Originally posted by Gideon
That doesn't make it valid. But even if we took that as the truth, that means if Revan "really concentrated" he could perform a feat on par with Yoda a few months before his death.
Yoda also "really concentrated" to perform that feat. Get you eyes checked.

Originally posted by Gideon
Gee...



I said that he was the more powerful duelist, jackass.
Dumb retard, Sidious said that he was more powerful then Dooku over-all. GL also supports this notion.

Originally posted by Gideon
All forms have weaknesses.
Jar Kai has less then others.

Originally posted by Gideon
You ignorance is superb? Try 'your ignorance is superb'.
You are a dumb retard who can't understand basic english posted by me.

Originally posted by Gideon
Wrong. Dooku's constant dueling with Jedi, Dark Side adepts, and participation in constant sparring for seven decades would give him superior dueling experience.
When was Dooku constantly dueling with Jedi and Dark Side adepts? Stop making shit out of your @ss.

And Revan too was being trained for several years and that too by several Jedi Masters and not just one, who were also vastly experienced as well. And they acknowledged that Revan was a fast learner. Time is an irrelevant thing.

Revan has proved his exceptional melee skills on several occasions. I have already mentioned some cases.

Originally posted by Gideon
I love this shitty fanboy logic.
And you call me ignorant when you yourself ignore any information that I mention here.

Revan has fought in more wars then Dooku did and he has more combat experience.

Originally posted by Gideon
...He knows how to deal with politicians in a militaristic way. He's not a political mastermind, like Dooku.
And being a politician does not gives you edge in combat. Your skills and experience do actually.

Originally posted by Gideon
Dooku could replenish his energy reserves in the Force quite handily and quite easily.
So can Revan and he is physically more strong as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
...Because, unlike Revan, Anakin becomes stronger as the fight progresses. That is why Dooku couldn't meet him blow-for-blow.
And Revan becomes weaker as fight progreses? Revan's fight on the Star Forge proves you entirely wrong.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, it isn't.
You cannot prove your point unless you have a source outrightly declaring it.

Originally posted by Gideon
Please deliver me a source indicating Revan's superior ability.
Why don't you show me a source that proves me wrong?

Revan's superior precognition and his supreme mastery in the Jar kai (a form which has no real weaknesses) makes him a possibly better fighter then Dooku in melee combat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Which isn't infallible, therefore, it cannot be gambled upon.
It is however superior to that of Dooku, so it holds some water.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is the very final time I'm going to say this: your ability to debate is pathetic. It's the worst I've seen on these forums. You constantly reiterate points I've already acknowledged with the only goal of fellating Revan even more. You pull bogus and bullshit 'statements' out of your ass: "Revan will determine all of Dooku's moves!!" and then you try to interpret logic your own horrendous way. You don't ****ing think, and it's because you're more concerned about Revan's uberness.
You are the biggest retard on this forum. You like to preach your version of Star Wars to others and do not listen to what others say. Get a life! you are not GL.

You say that Revan is better then Dooku by a very small margin. I do not agree with this notion and I have provided some evidences and sources that back my case but you fail to acknowledge them.

You need to get your eyes checked.

Originally posted by Gideon
Do not bother arguing this point if you're going to debate like this. Get ACstyles or Advent to pick up the slack, because you are beyond hope.
Than stop replying.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What part of "very tough fights" in my point you do not understand?

Revan has faced some challenges which were harder then the challenge that Dooku would provide him. Want to see an example? Here is one:

Revan vs SF enhanced Malak:

Darth Malak on regular basis is better then Dooku in some cases. By the end of JCW, the Star Forge had enhanced his power further by a good deal and then he made some preparations that made him a nearly unstoppable opponent. This final fight was so hard that it was described to be of titanic proportions but guess what who won in the end? REVANQUOTE]




What, are you kidding. Revan faced harder challenges, no way.

Dooku faced Yoda twice, the strongest Jedi ever, until NJO Luke become that.
Yoda is better then ST Malak and is also better then Revan. Thats canon, GL confirmed it, accept it.
Mace Windu, he is better then Revan with sabers.
ROTS Anakin, the best lightsaber dualist in the movies and up until NJO Luke took the tittle. ROTS Anakin would annihilate ST Malak in saber combat as would he Revan.

Dart Malak on regular bases isn't better then Dooku, not with Force nor with sabers. And with Star Forge powering him, he is at best just a little(by hair)better then Dooku in the Force and still weaker with a saber.




.

I told you that if you continued to debate like an utter jackass, we weren't going to discuss this any further. So, instead of adhering to my suggestion, what do you do? You debate like an utter jackass. I don't have time nor patience to deal with an idiot, LeGenD. You retorting that I am a retard is all well and good, but we both know that it isn't true, and if you'd like, we can ask the other forum members as to which one of us is smarter.

The fragility of your argument is personified by the simple fact that you chose to refute a small fraction of my rebuttle. If you're so sure of yourself and Revan's superiority, why not refute my entire argument? Instead, you prefer to reiterate "Revan is not weak!", "Revan is teh uber!", "Revan is a powerful Sith!", and "Revan is a brilliant tactition!" - all of which are points that, not only did I not deny, but points that I have offered, agreed with, and even happened to defend against Allankles. You can accuse me of "bias against Revan!" all you like; I debate objectively. Some of my more 'passionate' arguments have been in Revan's defense against Allankles on other threads. You, on the other hand, let biases consume you, to the point where you orally fellate Revan like a broken record.

...Then, of course, you go into a deeper section of the bullshit pool by insuating that anything Drew says in regards to Revan and other characters = canon fact. That is not the case. Then there is the lovely assertion that "Revan can predict and determine all of Dooku's moves!" without proper basis or support.

In short, your entire argument is flawed, you have no point that I haven't already agreed with, and everything else is heap upon heap of utter bullshit.

Don't bother continuing this debate. You suck beyond all compare as a debater, and you seriously ought to take your time to create cogent, coherent, logical arguments before running off every time someone proves that Revan is not an uber-god of the Force and that he would have tough times fighting powerful Sith and there are people who would stomp his ass into the proverbial dust.

I stand by my concluding assessment: you're worse than Nebaris or LORDSIDIOUS ever could dream of being.

One comment to add to this escape pwnage.. Escape, is it really logical that Dooku would know about Revan? I would have thought that those in Bane's lineage only deal with his lineage, so it's more logical that Dooku knew all that came from Bane, as opposed to the ancient sith lords. I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What, are you kidding. Revan faced harder challenges, no way.
Really? Here are some!

A) Revan faced an entire army of Sith on the Star Forge. Did Dooku faced such odds?

B) Revan faced a Sith Lord who became "nearly unstoppable" by the end of JCW and Revan still won. This challenge was much harder then Dooku himself can give to Revan.

C) Revan also survived an encounter with a Krayt Dragon.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku faced Yoda twice, the strongest Jedi ever, until NJO Luke become that.
Yoda is not the strongest Jedi ever. He is among the strongest however.

And the Sith Lord that Revan faced in the last battle of JCW was described as "nearly unstoppable".

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yoda is better then ST Malak and is also better then Revan. Thats canon, GL confirmed it, accept it.
You have no canonical evidence that outrightly declared so. And SF Malak was descibed as being "nearly unstoppable" because of obvious reasons that I have mentioned before. Read SW Databank.

Now how much better can you become from "nearly unstoppable" status? Not by much unless you are invincible.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Mace Windu, he is better then Revan with sabers.
Because of Vaapad?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ROTS Anakin, the best lightsaber dualist in the movies and up until NJO Luke took the tittle. ROTS Anakin would annihilate ST Malak in saber combat as would he Revan.
Anakin would be able to beat them in Saber Combat but it will be hard fight and not a walk in the park.

Revan and Malak are also among the greatest swordsmen in the galaxy in the KOTOR age.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dart Malak on regular bases isn't better then Dooku, not with Force nor with sabers.
Want to compare Dooku and Malak now? I can do that for you!

MALAK:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Juyo (according to Drew). Malak also used a special longer Light Saber that gave him higher chances to hit an opponent.

Physical Strength: He is like a body builder and is very strong. He tolerated a direct blow to his face from a Light Saber.

Talent: He was talented enough to become a War Hero and was a fast learner. He was also a good planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Malak was capable of according to KOTOR;

- Master Practitioner of Force Lightning. He could instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning (as shown in KOTOR). He also tortured and corrupted Bastilla Shan with his Force Lightning in the Rakatan Temple. He could also perform "Chain Lighting" as well.
- TK abilities. (Adept in the art of Saber Throw as well)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Choke
- Force Whirlwind (He trapped Revan in a Force Whirlwind on Leviathan)
- Stasis Field (Capable of Force stunning multiple Jedi simultaneously)
- Mind Control capability
- Strong defensive abilities like Force Immunity and protected by a strong body armor
- Force Drain
- Telepathy
- Burst of Speed capability
- Force Healing capability
- Force Jump
- Force Sense

Experience: Malak had exceptional skills in combat skills, was a good schemer and was capable enough to successfully command and manage an entire Sith Empire.

If you talk about experience then you should note that real experience is always gained from wars and conflicts and not just from years of training.

So apart from being trained for several years, he gained real combat experiences from TWO Wars.

A) Mandalorian Wars (which continued for 4 years)
B) Jedi Civil War (which also continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Malak has trained some apprentices.

DOOKU:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Makashi.

Physical Strength: He is normal in this regard. Not as strong as Malak.

Talent: Dooku was very talented and was also a great strategist and planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Dooku is capable of according to the movies;

- Practitioner of Force Lightning
- TK abilities (Good in this regard specially)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Jump
- Force Choke
- Defensive abilities like Force Deflection
- Burst of Speed
- Telepathy
- Force Sense

Experience: Dooku had exceptional experience in politics, combat skills and was a good strategist.

Apart from being exceptionally trained by Yoda for several years, Dooku as far as I know had participated in Clone Wars (that continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Dooku also had trained some apprentices.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And with Star Forge powering him, he is at best just a little(by hair)better then Dooku in the Force and still weaker with a saber.
You are much more ignorant then I thought.

When Dooku will be considered to be "nearly unstoppable" in a duel, then you come and talk to me.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What, are you kidding. Revan faced harder challenges, no way.
Really? Here are some!

A) Revan faced an entire army of Sith on the Star Forge. Did Dooku faced such odds?

B) Revan faced a Sith Lord who became "nearly unstoppable" by the end of JCW and Revan still won. This challenge was much harder then Dooku himself can give to Revan.

C) Revan also survived an encounter with a Krayt Dragon.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku faced Yoda twice, the strongest Jedi ever, until NJO Luke become that.
Yoda is not the strongest Jedi ever. He is among the strongest however.

And the Sith Lord that Revan faced in the last battle of JCW was described as "nearly unstoppable".

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yoda is better then ST Malak and is also better then Revan. Thats canon, GL confirmed it, accept it.
You have no canonical evidence that outrightly declared so. And SF Malak was descibed as being "nearly unstoppable" because of obvious reasons that I have mentioned before. Read SW Databank.

Now how much better can you become from "nearly unstoppable" status? Not by much unless you are invincible.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Mace Windu, he is better then Revan with sabers.
Because of Vaapad?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ROTS Anakin, the best lightsaber dualist in the movies and up until NJO Luke took the tittle. ROTS Anakin would annihilate ST Malak in saber combat as would he Revan.
Anakin would be able to beat them in Saber Combat but it will be hard fight and not a walk in the park.

Revan and Malak are also among the greatest swordsmen in the galaxy in the KOTOR age.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dart Malak on regular bases isn't better then Dooku, not with Force nor with sabers.
Want to compare Dooku and Malak now? I can do that for you!

MALAK:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Juyo (according to Drew). Malak also used a special longer Light Saber that gave him higher chances to hit an opponent.

Physical Strength: He is like a body builder and is very strong. He tolerated a direct blow to his face from a Light Saber.

Talent: He was talented enough to become a War Hero and was a fast learner. He was also a good planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Malak was capable of according to KOTOR;

- Master Practitioner of Force Lightning. He could instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning (as shown in KOTOR). He also tortured and corrupted Bastilla Shan with his Force Lightning in the Rakatan Temple. He could also perform "Chain Lighting" as well.
- TK abilities. (Adept in the art of Saber Throw as well)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Choke
- Force Whirlwind (He trapped Revan in a Force Whirlwind on Leviathan)
- Stasis Field (Capable of Force stunning multiple Jedi simultaneously)
- Mind Control capability
- Strong defensive abilities like Force Immunity and protected by a strong body armor
- Force Drain
- Telepathy
- Burst of Speed capability
- Force Healing capability
- Force Jump
- Force Sense

Experience: Malak had exceptional skills in combat skills, was a good schemer and was capable enough to successfully command and manage an entire Sith Empire.

If you talk about experience then you should note that real experience is always gained from wars and conflicts and not just from years of training.

So apart from being trained for several years, he gained real combat experiences from TWO Wars.

A) Mandalorian Wars (which continued for 4 years)
B) Jedi Civil War (which also continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Malak has trained some apprentices.

DOOKU:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Makashi.

Physical Strength: He is normal in this regard. Not as strong as Malak.

Talent: Dooku was very talented and was also a great strategist and planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Dooku is capable of according to the movies;

- Practitioner of Force Lightning
- TK abilities (Good in this regard specially)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Jump
- Force Choke
- Defensive abilities like Force Deflection
- Burst of Speed
- Telepathy
- Force Sense

Experience: Dooku had exceptional experience in politics, combat skills and was a good strategist.

Apart from being exceptionally trained by Yoda for several years, Dooku as far as I know had participated in Clone Wars (that continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Dooku also had trained some apprentices.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And with Star Forge powering him, he is at best just a little(by hair)better then Dooku in the Force and still weaker with a saber.
You are much more ignorant then I thought.

When Dooku will be considered to be "nearly unstoppable" in a duel, then you come and talk to me.

Originally posted by Gideon
I told you that if you continued to debate like an utter jackass, we weren't going to discuss this any further. So, instead of adhering to my suggestion, what do you do? You debate like an utter jackass. I don't have time nor patience to deal with an idiot, LeGenD.
If you are not comfortable with my debating style in case of Star Wars, then you better not argue with me. And you indeed are a retard who likes to pretend that he knows everything and preach his version of Star Wars to everybody, as if you have direct links with GL himself.

Originally posted by Gideon
You retorting that I am a retard is all well and good, but we both know that it isn't true, and if you'd like, we can ask the other forum members as to which one of us is smarter.
I do not need to ask other Forum members about this. My opinion regarding you is based upon your attitude towards me.

Originally posted by Gideon
The fragility of your argument is personified by the simple fact that you chose to refute a small fraction of my rebuttle. If you're so sure of yourself and Revan's superiority, why not refute my entire argument? Instead, you prefer to reiterate "Revan is not weak!", "Revan is teh uber!", "Revan is a powerful Sith!", and "Revan is a brilliant tactition!" - all of which are points that, not only did I not deny, but points that I have offered, agreed with, and even happened to defend against Allankles. You can accuse me of "bias against Revan!" all you like; I debate objectively. Some of my more 'passionate' arguments have been in Revan's defense against Allankles on other threads. You, on the other hand, let biases consume you, to the point where you orally fellate Revan like a broken record. P.
And yet you fail to acknowledge what I am trying to tell you in this thread. My entire main point is that Revan > Dooku by a decent margin. Your point is that Revan > Dooku by a very small margin. I am diagreeing with this notion and you failed to change it.

And you are indeed baised against KOTOR period characters and you have admitted that you absolutely dislike Revan. Your defending of Revan in a thread does not matters much because it was in a case where only KOTOR II characters were being discussed and not your favourite PT period characters. Most members at some point do defend Revan, so this is not unexpected.

Originally posted by Gideon
...Then, of course, you go into a deeper section of the bullshit pool by insuating that anything Drew says in regards to Revan and other characters = canon fact. That is not the case. Then there is the lovely assertion that "Revan can predict and determine all of Dooku's moves!" without proper basis or support.
You like putting words in my mouth?

I never said that Drew words = Canon fact, but his words can be used as a source to back my argument unless GL himself overrules his words directly. He is a SW Author after all and knows his shit.

Revan's precognition is believed to surpass even that of Yusanis, whose precognition capabilities were already very exceptional. And better read about how effective Echani precognition can be.

Revan certainly can judge all of Dooku's moves.

Originally posted by Gideon
In short, your entire argument is flawed, you have no point that I haven't already agreed with, and everything else is heap upon heap of utter bullshit.
You have yet to agree with my main point that I stated above and I know that you will not. Your arrogance is not less then mine.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't bother continuing this debate. You suck beyond all compare as a debater, and you seriously ought to take your time to create cogent, coherent, logical arguments before running off every time someone proves that Revan is not an uber-god of the Force and that he would have tough times fighting powerful Sith and there are people who would stomp his ass into the proverbial dust.
You know nothing about my real detating skills. These are just casual debates and I do not take these debates seriously. And also Like Exanda Kane said that Star Wars is not to preach but to enjoy. You disagree with my POV on a certain thing, then do not argue and let it go.

And I never said that Revan was a Force God or something like that. I consider him to be among the most powerful Jedi in SW Galaxy however. And if I am as much a fanboy of Revan as you claim, I would have said that Revan > all, which is not the case.

Originally posted by Gideon
I stand by my concluding assessment: you're worse than Nebaris or LORDSIDIOUS ever could dream of being.
Your attitude puts you below them as well.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
One comment to add to this escape pwnage.. Escape, is it really logical that Dooku would know about Revan? I would have thought that those in Bane's lineage only deal with his lineage, so it's more logical that Dooku knew all that came from Bane, as opposed to the ancient sith lords. I could be wrong.

I find it very logical, since Bane derived a sizeable junk of his knowledge from Revan as well.

No no it is logical indeed, but it's unlikely Sidious would teach Dooku about the ancient sith order. Obviously it's a LOT more likely that Plagueis taught everything about the ancient sith and the new sith to Sidious, but Sidious had no intention of keeping Dooku as a permanent apprentice, so why bother? Same goes with Maul.

No, it's illogical to assume that Palpatine taught Dooku all of the Ancient Sith/Revan techniques. This is about history, which would be relatively harmless in comparison. It's logical to conclude that Dooku had a very firm grasp of Sith history.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No no it is logical indeed, but it's unlikely Sidious would teach Dooku about the ancient sith order. Obviously it's a LOT more likely that Plagueis taught everything about the ancient sith and the new sith to Sidious, but Sidious had no intention of keeping Dooku as a permanent apprentice, so why bother? Same goes with Maul.

It was possible that Dooku was very capable of learning about the ancient Sith War some other way beside Palpatine. Mace Windu knew a lot about the ancient Sith War as shown in the Clone Wars video game. That was a huge event in the Republic history. That would be like someone who was born and raised in the US not knowing about WW2 or the American Revolution. Just a thought though. I'm not really sure if the Jedi taught history so I wouldn't know.