Hulk vs. Astonishing X-Men

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Madvillain
News has just broken over the t.v stations that the Hulk just levelled a building in New York. The X-Men arrive at the scene and are ready to stop him. Can they do it?


Hulk

vs.

Cyclops
Emma Frost
Beast
Shadowcat
Colossus
Wolverine
Lockheed
Armor

Symmetric Chaos
Who are Lockheed and Armor?

manorastroman
yes.

llagrok
Does Hulk have any way of countering Emma's telepathy?

Madvillain
Originally posted by llagrok
Does Hulk have any way of countering Emma's telepathy?

he's shown some resistance to telepathy in the past, which i think is largely dependent on his level of anger at the time.

llagrok
Nothing Sentry can't handle though.

guy222
Originally posted by Madvillain
News has just broken over the t.v stations that the Hulk just levelled a building in New York. The X-Men arrive at the scene and are ready to stop him. Can they do it?


Hulk

vs.

Cyclops
Emma Frost
Beast
Shadowcat
Colossus
Wolverine
Lockheed
Armor

hmmLogan is the only one in Hulk's way

pr1983
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Who are Lockheed and Armor?

buy astonishing x-men... go on... tsk tsk tsk...

Originally posted by guy222
hmmLogan is the only one in Hulk's way

at first, and once he gets squashed the rest of the team take down hulk...

guy222
Originally posted by pr1983
buy astonishing x-men... go on... tsk tsk tsk...



at first, and once he gets squashed the rest of the team take down hulk...

Hulk destroys them then fights Howlett

phillipan
Originally posted by guy222
Hulk destroys them then fights Howlett

ur kidding right.............

Wolverine is probably the most useless xman in this fight.

Emma takes him out with tp easily.

pr1983
Originally posted by guy222
Hulk destroys them then fights Howlett

not a chance... if anything logan would be the first to go down...

or example:

Originally posted by phillipan
ur kidding right.............

Wolverine is probably the most useless xman in this fight.

Emma takes him out with tp easily.

guy222
Originally posted by phillipan
ur kidding right.............

Wolverine is probably the most useless xman in this fight.

Emma takes him out with tp easily.

U haven't seen Logan and Hulk fight before?

I don't believe Logan has ever been useless in a fight

Washco
Really? How bout when Jahf one-punched him into the atmosphere right at the start of the fight. I can see Hulk doing that to him.

xmarksthespot
Shadowcat and Emma Frost ftw.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Shadowcat and Emma Frost ftw.

Is Emma's TP good enough for that?

xmarksthespot
How good is good enough? "Some resistance" is nondescript in the grand scheme. Everyone has "some resistance." What are his telepathic resistance feats?

juggernaut74
The team wins. Mostly because of Kitty and Emma.

Madvillain
Originally posted by llagrok
Nothing Sentry can't handle though.

Sentry isn't in this battle. Please read it again.

Madvillain
Originally posted by guy222
hmmLogan is the only one in Hulk's way

you've got to be kidding.

Madvillain
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
How good is good enough? "Some resistance" is nondescript in the grand scheme. Everyone has "some resistance." What are his telepathic resistance feats?

ummm...here are Hulk's mental resistance feats.

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/mentalresistancefeats.html

xmarksthespot
None of those telepaths are of Emma Frost's calibre, especially with regard to having physical effects as a result of psionic manipulation, as far as I can tell.

Joey Stacks
Ignoring Lockheed because I forgot who that is.........

It'd take the Hulk a long time be raped by a telepath of Emma's level due to the nature of his personalities, but he'd still be vulnerable to stuff like sensory alteration (which is what Emma excells at). But I'd still give it to Hulk 9/10x's using comic book logic and 10/10x's using forum logic. Emma won't even have a chance to use her TP unless she starts out a decent distance away, in which case it'd best to use assist TP (like altering Hulk's depth preceptions and tingling his pleasure receptors while keeping the X-Men in full confidence, especially Armor as there's that whole HOLY CRAP THE HULK stigma in the MU).


And Logan, believe it or not, is the second most important person in the fight. His agility + damage soak will be the most valuable asset in aiding Emma get the rape since most the team (Cyclops, Shadowcat, Beast, even Emma if she's not at a safe distance or in Diamond form) will be oneshotted by a thunderclap. Colossus is likely to get bfr'd or thrashed because of his slug it out tendancies. Armor is likely to be cuddled up in a corner crying about being in this situation and would likely get Mr. T thrown out the fight.

What If...
Kitty isn't getting oneshotted by a thunderclap erm

And Hulks best "telepathic resist" feat is against Selene...and it's stated it's a "touch of psychic caress."

Brian Oswald
Team should win

spidey-dude
which colosuss is this ?

xmarksthespot
Yeah. A thunderclap is going to take Kitty down. no expression

http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080530460.jpg
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080531288.jpg
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080529757.jpg
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080531960.jpg

The Pict
Kitty is gonna be one of the more important X-Men in this fight. Not too sure who'd win this, to be honest.

Joey Stacks
Sonics =/= Concussive Beams

Ask Juggernaut

That'd almost be like me posting a scan of Psylocke taking a full force mindbolt from X and saying

like that punch from Spiderman is really going to do anything *insert lame smiley face*.

xmarksthespot
The ultra-high frequency sonic attack that affected Juggernaut? Yeah I'm sure Hulk can replicate that by clapping his hands. no expression

A sonic boom is low frequency. Sound propagates as a mechanical wave through matter conduit. A shock wave causes a rise in pressure. Shadowcat phases through matter and energy. no expression

llagrok
Originally posted by juggernaut74
The team wins. Mostly because of Kitty and Emma.

Co-sign.

People are underestimating the women smile

Wolverine has fought Hulk before, he knows how to do it. Which is why he'll be the first one to attack. Although he won't fall, he'll definitely be knocked unconscious. Colossus and Armor can keep the Hulk occupied while Emma takes care of business. If anyone gets fatally wounded, Kitty can phase them out of the way.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The ultra-high frequency sonic attack that affected Juggernaut? Yeah I'm sure Hulk can replicate that by clapping his hands. no expression

Not the point, the point was it's two different methods of attack. A>B>C logic at it's worst. If you wanted to prove a point you should have used Kitty resisting someone like Banshee or something.

A sonic boom is low frequency. Sound propagates as a mechanical wave through matter conduit. A shock wave causes a rise in pressure. Shadowcat phases through matter and energy. no expression

Shadowcat also still hears (and thus her ear drums still rattle from sound waves) and speaks when she's phased, hence a Thunderclap being just as effective *insert idiosyntric smiley here*.

xmarksthespot
Banshee uses high frequency sound waves as well. You'd be using the ABC logic you're currently deriding.

She's phased through explosions of similar decibel levels, and similar pressure levels, as would result from a sonic boom.

"idiosyntric" isn't a word. Try harder.

Hercules
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"idiosyntric" isn't a word. Try harder.

Its not?

Sh!t, that just really ruined by triple word score at scrabble! sad

Joey Stacks
Banshee uses high frequency sound waves as well

Which is the point as a Sonic Clap emits a high frequency sound which usually causes the opponents to pass out, or at least become disoriented. What you just did would be like me posting Hulk walk through a Power Beam from Cyclops as proof of him being able to withstand Superman's heat vision. Terrible reasoning.

She's phased through explosions of similar decibel levels, and similar pressure levels, as would result from a sonic boom.

When?


"idiosyntric" isn't a word.

Not that anyone cares.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Banshee uses high frequency sound waves as well

Which is the point as a Sonic Clap emits a high frequency sound which usually causes the opponents to pass out, or at least become disoriented. What you just did would be like me posting Hulk walk through a Power Beam from Cyclops as proof of him being able to withstand Superman's heat vision. Terrible reasoning.

She's phased through explosions of similar decibel levels, and similar pressure levels, as would result from a sonic boom.

When?

"idiosyntric" isn't a word.

Not that anyone cares. A sonic clap doesn't emit high frequency sound. What the f**k?

She phased through an explosion that literally leveled a city. She's stood under a rocket launch and been inside an exploding satellite. In Days of Future Past, Katherine Pryde phased the epicentre of a nuclear explosion.

And considering you don't know who Lockheed is, you likely know next to nothing about Kitty, which makes your opinion of what she can and cannot do worthless.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A sonic clap doesn't emit high frequency sound. What the f**k?

Um yeah it does. Hulk has knocked people like Doc Samson and Hyperion out with it from the sheer sound alone.

And considering you don't know who Lockheed is, you likely know next to nothing about Kitty, which makes your opinion of what she can and cannot due worthless.

Yeah because I don't know one forgettable obscure pet dragon that comes around once in a blue moon I don't know Kitty. More great reasoning from xmarksthespot.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Um yeah it does. Hulk has knocked people like Doc Samson and Hyperion out with it from the sheer sound alone.

And considering you don't know who Lockheed is, you likely know next to nothing about Kitty, which makes your opinion of what she can and cannot due worthless.

Yeah because I don't know one forgettable obscure pet dragon that comes around once in a blue moon I don't know Kitty. More great reasoning from xmarksthespot. Irony. The person deriding ABC logic a few posts ago, now happily uses it. Doc Samson and Hyperion can't phase through matter and energy now can they? And no, a sonic boom is not high frequency sound, a clap does not emit high frequency sound.

Once in a blue moon? Wikipedia I assume? Lockheed has been with Kitty basically throughout her tenure as an X-Man and in Excalibur.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Irony. The person deriding ABC logic a few posts ago, now happily uses it. Doc Samson and Hyperion can't phase through matter and energy now can they? And no, a sonic boom is not high frequency sound, a clap does not emit high frequency sound.]



Right over your head. The point wasn't it knocking them out, it was that it emits a high frequency sound wave which, in turn, has knocked people like Hyperion out (this is called an elaboration, you might want to try it some time!).


Once in a blue moon? Wikipedia I assume? Lockheed has been with Kitty basically throughout her tenure as an X-Man and in Excalibur.

I don't read Excalibur and rarely reference Wiki sooooo


http://www.comicvine.com/kitty-pryde/3548/

vs.

http://www.comicvine.com/lockheed/4444/


Let's add them up

98 appearances in Uncanny vs. 12
21 appearances in Astonishing vs. 7
23 appearances in X-Men vs. 2

Pops up throughout her tenure as an X-Man indeed.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Right over your head. The point wasn't it knocking them out, it was that it emits a high frequency sound wave which, in turn, has knocked people like Hyperion out (this is called an elaboration, you might want to try it some time!).

Once in a blue moon? Wikipedia I assume? Lockheed has been with Kitty basically throughout her tenure as an X-Man and in Excalibur.
I don't read Excalibur and rarely reference Wiki sooooo

http://www.comicvine.com/kitty-pryde/3548/

vs.

http://www.comicvine.com/lockheed/4444/

Let's add them up

98 appearances in Uncanny vs. 12
21 appearances in Astonishing vs. 7
23 appearances in X-Men vs. 2

Pops up throughout her tenure as an X-Man indeed. A thunderclap doesn't emit high frequency sound. no expression

1. Comicvine is usually inaccurate and misses appearances.
2. I didn't say he appeared in every comic she's in I said he's been with her throughout her runs. The picture of Shadowcat on that link even shows Lockheed with her.
3. If you haven't read Excalibur at all that also indicates you're lacking in information on Shadowcat.
4. In case it still doesn't get through, a thunderclap is not high frequency sound.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A thunderclap doesn't emit high frequency sound. no expression


Nice counter!

1. Comicvine is usually inaccurate and misses appearances.

Who cares about maybe one or two missing issues. The point was that X-Men is a really really large book with many characters, forgetting the capabilities of one character who's made about 19 appearances out of 600 or so books doesn't make you less qualified on the subject

3. In case it still doesn't get through, a thunderclap is not high frequency sound.

Despite it being said to in the comics! Good arguing!

Oh and not reading Excalibur now makes you unqualified to talk on the subject of Kitten despite her 100+ out of Excalibur appearances! GREAT STUFF keep it coming my dude!

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Nice counter!

1. Comicvine is usually inaccurate and misses appearances.

Who cares about maybe one or two missing issues. The point was that X-Men is a really really large book with many characters, forgetting the capabilities of one character who's made about 19 appearances out of 600 or so books doesn't make you less qualified on the subject

3. In case it still doesn't get through, a thunderclap is not high frequency sound.

Despite it being said to in the comics! Good arguing! Where was it stated that when Hulk claps his hands he creates high frequency/ultrasonic sonics that renders people unconscious?

I'm quite certain I can find reference to the fact that Shadowcat phases through matter the conduit for mechanical sound waves making that redundant anyway. And as to talking, people talk in space in comics.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Where was it stated that when Hulk claps his hands he creates high frequency/ultrasonic sound that renders people unconscious?

The very Hyperion fight I'm referencing, the fact that you didn't know this makes you unqualified to further talk about the Hulk in any versus topics.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
The very Hyperion fight I'm referencing, the fact that you didn't know this makes you unqualified to further talk about the Hulk in any versus topics. Touche my not knowing a singular fight obviously equates to your not knowing a character entwined with Shadowcat's history and character. Feel free to post issue numbers of the multiple times Hulk has put his hands together in such a manner to emit high frequency sonics/ultrasonics to render people unconscious. I'd love to see them. smile

Joey Stacks
Giant Sized Defenders #4
IH 398
ASM 382

llagrok
It takes Emma a second to mindwipe him. This shouldn't even be a contest.

pr1983
Not counting lockheed in this fight is pretty dumb... at the very least lockheed will be using ranged attacks and pretty much being a nuisance, keeping the hulk distracted...

shadowcat isn't going down to a thunderclap, she has taken ALOT worse...

i'm just repeating what x-marks said, but it had to be done...

Charlotte DeBel
Another "Huc" thing? What is thunderclap? Air pressure wave, which is more than enough to knock people out\damage their eardrums/etc. No ultrasonic component AFAIK.

It requires AIR. Kitty phases through the air easily...If she keeps Emma safe for period of time long enough to do the job, girls' tag-team takes "Huc" while he entertains himself by punching Canadian regenerating punching bag called Wolverine.

llagrok
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Another "Huc" thing? What is thunderclap? Air pressure wave, which is more than enough to knock people out\damage their eardrums/etc. No ultrasonic component AFAIK.

It requires AIR. Kitty phases through the air easily...If she keeps Emma safe for period of time long enough to do the job, girls' tag-team takes "Huc" while he entertains himself by punching Canadian regenerating punching bag called Wolverine.

I'm pretty sure Cyclops will back up Wolverine as well.

If they need more time, there's Colossus and Armor.

pr1983
all emma has to do is fill his head with images of him with betty ross getting up to many types of mischief... if that doesn't put him in a good mood and calm him down nothing will...

hulk reverts to banner, any one of the x-men (yes, even lockheed, or the supposedly, but not really scared armour) takes him down...

xmarksthespot
IH #398. Hulk performs a thunderclap. And?
ASM #382. A "shock wave" ensues, i.e. a pressure rise as a result of propagating sonic boom, causes Spider-Man to have impaired balance by affecting his very tangible inner ear.
GSD #4 Again "shock waves" due to a sonic boom effect. Not high frequency sound. The vibrations send Hyperion reeling and shatter windows. Vibrations through which Shadowcat can phase.

I'm sorry where's this on panel reference to magical emission in high frequency/ultrasonic range akin to Banshee or Nimrod?

As explained above by Charlotte DeBel for like the fourth time - air pressure wave. Shadowcat phases air.

Joey Stacks
Okay so Hyperion's ear drums are powerful enough to withstand sonicbooms from going escape velocity but not a thunderclaps? He was knocked out by the sound (hence grabbing his head), not the force, which should be scraps to him.

And Armor smells the foul stench of rookie, she'd go nuts if she had to take down a PO'd Hulk.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Okay so Hyperion's ear drums are powerful enough to withstand sonicbooms from going escape velocity but not a thunderclaps? He was knocked out by the sound, not the force, which should be scraps to him.

And Armor smells the foul stench of rookie, she'd go nuts if she had to take down a PO'd Hulk.

the x-kids train against the hulk in the danger room... it wouldn't be anything new to her...

when ord showed up at the x-mansion, she didn't hesitate to go toe to toe with him...

xmarksthespot
Nowhere does it say anything of any "high frequency sonic attack" you claim occurred. A thunderclap is a pressure wave. Sound is mechanical energy, it needs a medium to propagate through. Shadowcat phases through matter and energy.

Who cares about Armor.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Shadowcat and Emma Frost ftw.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
the x-kids train against the hulk in the danger room... it wouldn't be anything new to her...



Training Sim =/= real thing. Didn't in that very same comic they say Hulk is the one program that's impossible to come close to replicating thanks to unpredictability?

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Nowhere does it say anything of any "high frequency sonic attack" you claim occurred. Sound is mechanical energy, it needs a medium to propagate through. Shadowcat phases through matter and energy.

Who cares about Armor.

Explain how someone like Hyperion is downed by a Sonic boom attack and grabs his ears in pain over something as simple.

Shadowcat also still hears in a fully phased state.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Training Sim =/= real thing. Didn't in that very same comic they say Hulk is the one program that's impossible to come close to replicating thanks to unpredictability?

and yet, its those same programs that trained dozens of x-men, enabling them to go up against the magneto's and the juggernaut's of the world...

and shadowcat will phase through, that's just how her powers work... if they didn't, she wouldnt have survived the kinds of things she has...

Sparkz
Team for the win, between Emma's Tp, Kitty's phasing, Wolverines damage soak and Cyclops' long range the team shouldn't have to much trouble, unless they toy with him at first and get him really mad where not alot would effect him.

Anyway team 9/10

llagrok
It is sonic waves, seeing as he used it on Wolverine as well, and it was hell due to his enhanced hearing.

Doesn't matter though, they would still win. Emma can easily remove the pain with telepathy, it barely takes her a second. She's done it before, don't even bother arguing on that.

Hulk's minor telepathic resistance won't save him from Emma. Not by a long shot.

Charlotte DeBel
PIS? Like Hulk "thunderclapping the fabric of reality" or some sh*t like that.
And air pressure wave from going escape velocity is another funny aspect of comics book physics. Air pressure wave works just fine in case of things like thunderclaps, but heroes with NO superhuman durability fly on supersonic speeds without getting damaged with it. Or in case of Human Torch's supernova- by emitting heat like that, he would be cruched by air pressure wave (he'd burn air around himself, so ambient air rushes into "free space" with pressure enough to cruch human flesh and bones) And by the way, that side effect of high temperatures is underestimated in comics- one of few desent showings of it is...Ghost Rider knocking out your precious "Huc" by burning the air around his head- Hulk passes out both because of lack of oxygen and being hit with pressure wave.
And AFAIR, Lockheed is firebreathing dragon... So it's possible for him to repeat that feat with burning the air round Hulk's head...at least to distract green giant enough for Emma to calm him the f*ck down.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Explain how someone like Hyperion is downed by a Sonic boom attack and grabs his ears in pain over something as simple.

Shadowcat also still hears in a fully phased state. PIS? Show something stating it's a "high frequency sonic attack" or accept that it isn't.

And people talk and hear in space. So? That doesn't change that she phases through matter and energy. She phases through comparable decibels. She phases through comparable force. A thunder clap is a pressure wave. And she phases through comparable pressure.

She phases Emma. Emma mind****s Hulk.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
and yet, its those same programs that trained dozens of x-men, enabling them to go up against the magneto's and the juggernaut's of the world...

GROWN X-men. The only people comparable to Armor that have gone up against Magneto's and such are Kitty, Jubilee and Iceman. And Iceman is more suspension of disbelief thanks to it be Silver Age writing. Even then Magneto and Juggernaut (remember he used to just walk through and ignore their attacks and only really tried to kill X)weren't nearly as brutal towards the X-Men as a enraged Hulk would be.

and shadowcat will phase through, that's just how her powers work... if they didn't, she wouldnt have survived the kinds of things she has...

Now that I think about it, Hulk's likely dense enough to effect Shadowcat even when phased.

xmarksthespot
Supposition. The only things that have been shown to prevent Shadowcat phasing are adamantium, and the Kitty-proof box which she still phased through.

Emma and Kitty can just sink into the ground at fight start anyway.

llagrok
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
GROWN X-men. The only people comparable to Armor that have gone up against Magneto's and such are Kitty, Jubilee and Iceman. And Iceman is more suspension of disbelief thanks to it be Silver Age writing. Even then Magneto and Juggernaut (remember he used to just walk through and ignore their attacks and only really tried to kill X)weren't nearly as brutal towards the X-Men as a enraged Hulk would be.

and shadowcat will phase through, that's just how her powers work... if they didn't, she wouldnt have survived the kinds of things she has...

Now that I think about it, Hulk's likely dense enough to effect Shadowcat even when phased.

Whenever she phases really dense people, they pass out.

Shadowcat on whitedwarf

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
GROWN X-men. The only people comparable to Armor that have gone up against Magneto's and such are Kitty, Jubilee and Iceman. And Iceman is more suspension of disbelief thanks to it be Silver Age writing. Even then Magneto and Juggernaut (remember he used to just walk through and ignore their attacks and only really tried to kill X)weren't nearly as brutal towards the X-Men as a enraged Hulk would be.

no matter how brutal he is, it doesn't mean armour is going to hesitate helping colossus and logan to try and slow him down... i think you're seriously underestimating her... when beast tried to eat her, she sucked it up and fought him off... she went against ord without hesitation, and she was obviously good enough that they made her an x-man...



i highly doubt that, for the reasons x has already stated...

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
PIS? Show something stating it's a "high frequency sonic attack" or accept that it isn't.

How about it affecting beings who shouldn't be phased by Sonic Boom waves? Nah that'd mean I'm right.

And people talk and hear in space.

Cosmic Beings can talk and hear in space. How often do mutants like Kitty talk and hear in space?

So? That doesn't change that she phases through matter and energy.

Which doesn't change the fact that Sound still effects her.


She phases through comparable decibels.


Likely PIS (unlike Hype who was holding his ears in pain).

A thunder clap is a pressure wave.


That also emits a high frequency sound wave.


She phases Emma. Emma mind****s Hulk.

When was the last time someone was able to mind rape the Hulk using only telepathy again?

Oh and I wonder what would happen if Hulk punched Shadowcat. He's likely dense enough to cause her feed back from going through. He'd proabably be able to smash her.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Supposition. The only things that have been shown to prevent Shadowcat phasing are adamantium, and the Kitty-proof box which she still phased through.


Why couldn't she phase through these items again? You say Kitty almost died phasing through the box? Thought so.

it doesn't mean armour is going to hesitate helping colossus and logan to try and slow him down...

Yes she would, she was buggin out in the evil Emma arc when she was fighting with Wolverine, a being as intimidating as the Hulk would probably scare her to death.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Which doesn't change the fact that Sound still effects her.

considering that sound is just another form of energy, it kinda does...




not with the consistency she's shown...



probably? that's kind of pushing it... erm

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Yes she would, she was buggin out in the evil Emma arc when she was fighting with Wolverine, a being as intimidating as the Hulk would probably scare her to death.

what? when logan put his claws through her shield?

i think you're kind of pushing it, she's shown so far that she's well able for being an x-man, and she was pretty much instrumental in getting the x-men back on their feet, and helping logan fight danger and ord...

Charlotte DeBel
Emma's telepathy works just fine on primitive minds (in her "college training" with Astrid Bloom she learns how to affect pigeons' behavior with her TP) so it wouldn't be too difficult for her to calm Hulk down, thus ending the fight.
And while Kitty phases her out of harm's way, she doesn't have to worry about green giant clapping his hands.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
That also emits a high frequency sound wave.PR and Charlotte have basically covered everything else, so all I'm going to point out is that this is baseless. smile

pr1983
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
PR and Charlotte have basically covered everything else, so all I'm going to point out is that this is baseless. smile

mmm, covering...

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
considering that sound is just another form of energy, it kinda does...


Which was the whole point of the argument. A thunderclap would take her out of the event, at very least it will disorientate her enough to make her tangible and smashable (that's barring the chance of Hulk being dense enough to hurt her if she's intangible).



not with the consistency she's shown...

No, I'm saying I don't think writers take in account the sound produced from large scale explosions. But the pendulum swings both ways for this one.



probably? that's kind of pushing it... erm

Probably isn't pushing it because it's a 50/50 affair. If Hulk is dense enough to affect her, she's going to get smashed, if he isn't, she'll get clapped and smashed.

Bleh I'll conceed the Armor point because she's irrelevant in the fight really.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Emma's telepathy works just fine on primitive minds (in her "college training" with Astrid Bloom she learns how to affect pigeons' behavior with her TP) so it wouldn't be too difficult for her to calm Hulk down, thus ending the fight.


Actually this is the problem. Hulk has one of the most complex minds in the Marvel Universe because of his multiple personalities.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Which was the whole point of the argument. A thunderclap would take her out of the event, at very least it will disorientate her enough to make her tangible and smashable (that's barring the chance of Hulk being dense enough to hurt her if she's intangible).

huh? there's no proof a thunderclap will affect her... she's taken worse...



whether it is or isn't is kind of irrelevant, what matters is comics consistency, and kitty's been shown to be largely unaffected by large explosions/sonic waves etc...



i think 50/50 is pushing it, there's no evidence to support the stance that she'd be affected by a thunderclap...



if you say so... stick out tongue

Charlotte DeBel
I remember you were arguing about Hulk thunderclapping Jack Hawksmoor on Coruscant...You are severely overrating thunderclap...just in attempt to give your favourite green brick something that looks like desent long range attack.

And sound is irrelevant when one phases through the air since sound is basically vibrations of air with certain frequency. That's PIS that she's able to speak when phased- but that's one of many comics "stipulations" which look so funny in real world- like people talking in space, flying on supersonic speeds while not having superhuman durability and so on...

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
huh? there's no proof a thunderclap will affect her... she's taken worse...

She's taken other forms of attacks and shown that she does hear in her phased form. I don't see what there is to argue about, Hulk claps she's going to feel it.



whether it is or isn't is kind of irrelevant, what matters is comics consistency, and kitty's been shown to be largely unaffected by large explosions/sonic waves etc...

Actually it's only explosions which indirectly lead to sound waves, which I doubt most people are thinking of when they draw her in those situations.



i think 50/50 is pushing it, there's no evidence to support the stance that she'd be affected by a thunderclap...

She hears, she gets hurt. She's been shown to hear, so she will get hurt. And then there's Hulk likely being dense enough to cause her feedback, the odds is more like 80/20 in Hulk's favor now that I think about it.

Charlotte DeBel
Multiple personality? No problem...she's worked with such things before. And she can work with Banner's personality of mind, locking Hulk's one away- she has skill to do that, actually she's the most skilled "mental surgeon" alive in Marvel.
I didn't say that her powers work better on primitive minds- that was brought up just in case you would be arguing about "the infinite rage of savage berserker Hulk"- that's the reason.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
She's taken other forms of attacks and shown that she does hear in her phased form. I don't see what there is to argue about, Hulk claps she's going to feel it.

any large explosion will have similar effects as hulk's sonic clap, and she's withstood those with relative ease many a time...



and yet how do we know when joss whedon isn't writing the attack by the giant sentinel, he believes that she'll withstand it? we don't know either way, all we do know is that so far she hasn't been affected by such phenomena...



her power has protected her from huge sonic waves before, its not going to make a difference now... erm

and saying that hulk is 'likely' to be dense enough to hurt her is again, kinda pushing it, and comes across, at least to me, as quite a bit of wishful thinking... erm

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I remember you were arguing about Hulk thunderclapping Jack Hawksmoor on Coruscant...You are severely overrating thunderclap...just in attempt to give your favourite green brick something that looks like desent long range attack.

No you're just not understanding the nature of certain characters powers. Hawksmoor on Coruscant is no more formidable then Hawksmoor in LA and has never done anything to show as much (outside of making empty boasts to a renegade doctor), he just has a bigger playground.

And sound is irrelevant when one phases through the air since sound is basically vibrations of air with certain frequency. That's PIS that she's able to speak when phased- but that's one of many comics "stipulations" which look so funny in real world- like people talking in space, flying on supersonic speeds while not having superhuman durability and so on...

Oh I don't think it's a stipulation, I've just only seen examples of Kitty taking indirect sound wave attacks as proof of her immunity (those are more loopholes then anything). If I see her taken on a full scale sonic attack then the point will be conceeded

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
any large explosion will have similar effects as hulk's sonic clap, and she's withstood those with relative ease many a time...

Any large explosion will be able to knock out Hyperion based on sound generation?



we don't know either way, all we do know is that so far she hasn't been affected by such phenomena...

She hears doesn't she? That's her being affected.

her power has protected her from huge sonic waves before, its not going to make a difference now... erm

When?

and saying that hulk is 'likely' to be dense enough to hurt her is again, kinda pushing it, and comes across, at least to me, as quite a bit of wishful thinking... erm

Kitty has shown to have troubles in the past phasing through extremely dense substances, like addy, I don't see why someone who's arguably as dense as it wouldn't be able to give her feedback.

Charlotte DeBel
And as for Jack, I know that's offtopic- but:
1)the ability to merge with city in less than second
2) (shown in huge cities) healing factor which is even more effective that Wolverine's one

The proofs of both of that are in Authority respect thread.

And as for Hyperion- that's most probably PIS. Apoc was made run away from f*cking table- so now tables are his Cryptonite?

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Any large explosion will be able to knock out Hyperion based on sound generation?

hyperion (as you know stick out tongue), isn't kitty pryde... just because he has more raw power than her doesn't mean he'll be automatically better at deflecting every type of attack...



not especially, which leads me to:



the supersentinel death ray in astonishing for one that x posted... and that'd be pretty loud...



hasn't adamantium cut through hulk before? hulk isn't dense enough that he can't be hurt, adamantium is almost indestructable...

as dense as hulk is, i don't think he's near being as dense as adamantium...


dude, honestly, we could do this all night... is it really worth it? stick out tongue

llagrok
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/hulk-dumbfans.jpg

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
hyperion (as you know stick out tongue), isn't kitty pryde... just because he has more raw power than her doesn't mean he'll be automatically better at deflecting every type of attack...

I'm not comparing Hyperion to Kitty, I'm questioning how someone as durable as Hype is knocked out by an attack which is only equal to a Sonic Boom without there being high level sonics around.



the supersentinel death ray in astonishing for one that x posted... and that'd be pretty loud...

Me screaming at the top of my lungs is pretty loud, I doubt that'd put anyone out of comission.


hasn't adamantium cut through hulk before? hulk isn't dense enough that he can't be hurt, adamantium is almost indestructable...

The closest thing I can think of is Wolverine scraping the Hulk. Wolverine has also scraped Thanos when he had the Infinity Gauntlet. Adamantium is almost indestructable unless you're packing Skyfather power, guess what Hulk is?


as dense as hulk is, i don't think he's near being as dense as adamantium...

I disagree.

dude, honestly, we could do this all night... is it really worth it? stick out tongue

It's a rainy afternoon here and i don't feel like hopping on a train and getting some work sooooo.

pr1983
Originally posted by llagrok
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/hulk-dumbfans.jpg

laughing

sorry, couldn't resist...

golem370

golem370
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
I'm not comparing Hyperion to Kitty, I'm questioning how someone as durable as Hype is knocked out by an attack which is only equal to a Sonic Boom without there being high level sonics around.



the supersentinel death ray in astonishing for one that x posted... and that'd be pretty loud...

Me screaming at the top of my lungs is pretty loud, I doubt that'd put anyone out of comission.


hasn't adamantium cut through hulk before? hulk isn't dense enough that he can't be hurt, adamantium is almost indestructable...

The closest thing I can think of is Wolverine scraping the Hulk. Wolverine has also scraped Thanos when he had the Infinity Gauntlet. Adamantium is almost indestructable unless you're packing Skyfather power, guess what Hulk is?


as dense as hulk is, i don't think he's near being as dense as adamantium...

I disagree.

dude, honestly, we could do this all night... is it really worth it? stick out tongue

It's a rainy afternoon here and i don't feel like hopping on a train and getting some work sooooo.

When Hulk gets mad enough adamantium can't cut him.

pr1983

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
cool, tho i have dialup, and it would take me forever to go through that list... stick out tongue



you're answering your own question... it affects him and not her because of the way her powers seem to protect her from such attacks...



And you're not getting the question, how does someone as durable as Hyperion get knocked out by a sonicboom without there being intangibles (really loud)? This isn't A>B>C this is A+B=C > D. Hulk's thunderclap is more then a sonicboom and generates a deafening sound able to bring Hype to his knees, Kitty's sound defenses are that of a normal human, Hulk Smash.

it was the same kind of blast that killed millions of genoshans... tell me that isn't loud... go on... stick out tongue

You know what else is loud? The drag strip. That's not knocking anyone out though.


but kitty isn't composed of adamantium...

Who said she was?

it's like i said before (when referring to the comparison of kitty and hyperion),

Nobody was comparing Kitty to Hype, I was saying that because Hulk is able to bring Hype to his knees and holding his ears his power works differently then how it's being incorrectly portrayed (concussive force with a little bit of sound thrown in) and do to the nature of said power and the nature of Kitten's intangibility (and hearing) this power will work on her. Not it will work on her because she's less durable or w/e.




fair enough... stick out tongue but even then, it's as much the composition of adamantium as its density...

Wasn't what made the Kitty box so tough to phase through its density?

llagrok
Hyperion being beaten by Hulk's thunderclap. That's more PIS than Drax ripping out Thanos' heart.

SpunkySmurph
I can see that Stack's hulk fanboyism shows through once again.

golem370
One thing is if you slap your hands together it makes noise. Also even if it didn't cause sound waves it does make some kind of wave that is stronger then Marvel earth most powerful hurricane on record. Now a question those astonshing x-men how would have fare against a hurricane even half a mile away, which Hulk would likely be closer then that. Also when Hulk made that hurricane slap he was weakend

golem370
It ain't fanboyism If he makes since. Vision couldn't phase threw Hulk I'd doubt Kitty would be able ether

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I can see that Stack's hulk fanboyism shows through once again.

I would say something


but I don't even know who this poster is

1 <3

xmarksthespot
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1515/90beatsdownemmafrost5jp0.jpg

Oh look, Emma can hear Kitty. Her eardrums must have just imploded from the weight of the earth around her.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
And you're not getting the question, how does someone as durable as Hyperion get knocked out by a sonicboom without there being intangibles (really loud)? This isn't A>B>C this is A+B=C > D. Hulk's thunderclap is more then a sonicboom and generates a deafening sound able to bring Hype to his knees, Kitty's sound defenses are that of a normal human, Hulk Smash.

no expression

no, they aren't... her powers protect her from matter and energy, they always have...

and besides, kitty has always been able to manipulate her phased state to grab and release objects, it stands to reason that she could easily just manipulate her state to protect herself from stuff like explosions and thunderclaps and the energy they release...



seriously... what?



c'mon dude... seriously...



but that in itself is an assumption from someone (and please don't take this the wrong way), who doesn't even know how integral lockheed is to kitty...

if you'd read even half the issues with lockheed, you'd have seen tons of examples of kitty's powers... erm



it was the density PLUS the submolecular shift matrix, meaning every single molecule in that box was constantly in a state of motion... it was a combination of both... if it was just density her job would have been a hell of alot easier...

xmarksthespot
Last time I checked Hulk was neither made of adamantium, nor a container specifically designed by Xavier and Beast to prevent entry by Kitty's phasing - which still failed.

But then Kitty can "hear" and "talk" when phased even in the ground and despite the fact that her aural and vocal anatomy is also phased so any old person can just pass their hand through her head and neck and beat her obviously.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
no expression

no, they aren't... her powers protect her from matter and energy, they always have...

How does she hear then?




c'mon dude... seriously...

I seriously want to know who said Kitty was made of addy? I sure didn't. Maybe it was SphunkySmurf or whatever


but that in itself is an assumption from someone (and please don't take this the wrong way), who doesn't even know how integral lockheed is to kitty...

What does knowing about Lockheed have to do with anything?

if you'd read even half the issues with lockheed, you'd have seen tons of examples of kitty's powers... erm

I've read all her uncanny, astonishing, and adjectiveless appearances at one time or another, I haven't seen her resist a sonic wave.



it was the density

Just like I thought smile

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by golem370
It ain't fanboyism If he makes since. Vision couldn't phase threw Hulk I'd doubt Kitty would be able ether

Both use different types of techniques to phase. Vision alters his density while Kitty phases and spins her atoms through the medium she's phasing through.

BTW Whoever said he resisted Xavier(Onslaught) scan is so off it's not even funny no expression . He saw a poster that looked like Betty and stopped. He didn't resist Onslaught he was still his mind slave. It was Cable who played a major part in helping the Hulk overcome Onslaughts influence. Storm and him shut his mind down and then rebooted it.

Selenes psychic caress managed to flaw the Grey Hulk. However Hulk resisted her mind control.

So far the Hulk has been shown to resist Hypnosis, Mind Control and Free himself from Illusions. But you have to understand that those are different types of telepathic techniques. Those can be overcome by sure will.

There's mind blasts, which is just frying the mind with pure psionic energy. And he has shown some resistance to(Xemnu's) However he has also been been effected by them eg. Selenes psychic caress. So it probably depends on his level of anger.

Then there's another type of telepathy where the telepath can effect an individuals higher brain functions. The part of the brain you don't have conscious control over. eg the part that produces hormones and is responsible for balance(When your drunk this part of your brain is inhibited). And there's no instance where this type of telepathy has been used on the Hulk.




It wasn't only the density. The alloy was a submolecular shift matrix. Its molecules weren't just spinning in one place they were shifting. She had to spin her own atoms to get past the shifting molecules.

xmarksthespot
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/836/81fallsthroughalot2pp6.jpg

Oh look, Kitty just talked, the metal she's phased into must be crushing her lungs, trachea, larynx, tongue and mouth.

Joey Stacks
What does that have to do with anything?

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
How does she hear then?




c'mon dude... seriously...

I seriously want to know who said Kitty was made of addy? I sure didn't. Maybe it was SphunkySmurf or whatever


but that in itself is an assumption from someone (and please don't take this the wrong way), who doesn't even know how integral lockheed is to kitty...

What does knowing about Lockheed have to do with anything?

if you'd read even half the issues with lockheed, you'd have seen tons of examples of kitty's powers... erm

I've read all her uncanny, astonishing, and adjectiveless appearances at one time or another, I haven't seen her resist a sonic wave.



it was the density

Just like I thought smile

no expression, fine, dodge my points... that just stinks of desperation dude...

Joey Stacks
I didn't dodge any "points" and desperation is introducing something irrelevant, like Lockheed.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
I didn't dodge any "points" and desperation is introducing something irrelevant, like Lockheed.

a weak continuation of a rather weak argument to begin with...

and just for the sake of it:

you dodged the point (continuously) that the megasentinel blast would create sonic effects that would burst the eardrums of anyone as close to ground zero as the x-men were, and yet, shadowcat's phasing kept everyone's body (and hearing), intact...

you dodged the statement of FACT that the box designed to keep her out had more than just density to keep her out... alot more in-fact... if anything the density was just the first hurdle...

you just said you read all of kitty's appearances, yet also admitted you were:



which is it?

what's really irrelevant is the way you seem to be trying to win an argument you lost on the third page of this thread...

if you don't like it, that's fine, but honestly, it makes no difference to me... i'm suddenly filled with the desire to continue this until you concede defeat... or just make even more ludicrous claims than you already have...

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983


you dodged the point (continuously) that the megasentinel blast would create sonic effects that would burst the eardrums of anyone as close to ground zero as the x-men were, and yet, shadowcat's phasing kept everyone's body (and hearing), intact...

All of which is hearsay.

you dodged the statement of FACT that the box designed to keep her out had more than just density to keep her out... alot more in-fact... if anything the density was just the first hurdle...

The original point was that she has trouble with high density. All the other stuff in your argument is irrelevant garbage, nobody asked or cared about what else was in the box, just that one of the reasons that made it so hard for her to phase was the density. Poor debating on your part.

you just said you read all of kitty's appearances, yet also admitted you were:

Your point?


what's really irrelevant is the way you seem to be trying to win an argument you lost on the third page of this thread...

I never lost the argument as the Kitty fans haven't really provided anything that out right shows her immunity to sound based attacks. If anything your frustrations are causing you to lose.


or just make even more ludicrous claims than you already have...

Like?


PS: What's funny is how all these irrelevant scans posted out of frustration can be brought up but nothing showing Kitty being unhampered by a sonic based attack. I wonder why?

xmarksthespot
The scans show that your argument is nonexistent.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1515/90beatsdownemmafrost5jp0.jpg

Oh look, Emma can hear Kitty. Her eardrums must have just imploded from the weight of the earth around her. Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/836/81fallsthroughalot2pp6.jpg

Oh look, Kitty just talked, the metal she's phased into must be crushing her lungs, trachea, larynx, tongue and mouth. The fact that Kitty is "hearing" and "talking" has nothing to do with sound levels. Her aural and vocal systems are phased.

The sound of the thunderclap is doing nothing to her ears, the ensuing air pressure waves are doing nothing to her ears nor her body. Sound is mechanical (kinetic) energy that propagates through a matter medium. She phases through matter and energy. The ensuing air pressure waves are the same as sound, kinetic energy propagating through air. Scans have been shown of her phasing through comparable energy. Your (lack of) argument based on characters having dialogue would mean that she wouldn't be able to phase ever; Emma's aural systems would be destroyed in the above scan, and Kitty's vocal and aural systems would be destroyed in the above scan 2; purely due to her talking, listening and phasing. Your (lack of) argument that Kitty cannot phase sound i.e. kinetic energy, would not be able to phase through an ordinary punch from an ordinary person at her head.

The only things that Kitty has shown difficulty in phasing through are adamantium and the Kitty proof box, the latter because a combination of factors. She phases through Colossus with ease, who Wolverine's adamantium claws cannot cut, she can phase through Danger who is also made of hyperdense alloys.

All of this warrants a repost of this:
Originally posted by llagrok
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/hulk-dumbfans.jpg

Joey Stacks
No they don't, they show Emma and Kitty being able to talk while phased. Again in 200+ comics can you come up with ONE instance where she phased through a sonic attack? I mean, I see you have no problem posting Emma being able to hear while phased.

xmarksthespot
Scans have already been shown of her phasing through high pressure, high velocity air waves on the first page. You have nothing. Try harder.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
All of which is hearsay.

well they could all still hear each other after the blast, so not so much hearsay as well, shown on panel...



not at all... she has trouble with very high density, that is true, though she has been able to phase through highly dense objects before...

it was the addition of the submolecular shift matrix that made things so difficult...

and yet she still phased through it...



confused you didn't get it? kind of, sort of, that you were contradicting yourself... no expression



kitty fans? kitty fans? wow, you couldn't be wider of the mark... the woman is nowhere close to being my favourite character, sorry... erm

cyclops, colossus, emma, iceman, thor, hawkeye, the silver surfer, THE HULK, hank pym, psylocke, sage, captain america... just some of the characters i like more than shadowcat... sorry... erm

it has been shown consistently (explosions create massive shock-waves of concussive force and sound), but you obviously don't like it, so you choose to disregard it... not my fault...

and i don't think i'm the one who's getting frustrated, am i?



you call us kitty fans, yet seem to put the hulk on such a pedestal at the same time...



there you go again with that word, 'frustration' when it's so obvious that the it's not me who's getting frustrated...

project much?

and fyi: hulk's thunderclap is not a 'sonic based attack' it is a concussive shock-wave caused by massive air displacement... the sonic boom is just a secondary product of it...

and what x said, too...

Joey Stacks
Show her phasing through an attack, a sonic scream, a Songbird/Klaw construct, SOMETHING. I mean Kitty's got feats out the ass that I apparently haven't seen, this sonic feat MUST exist. There must be SOMETHING in the print other then xmarksthespot opinion and essays.

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
well they could all still hear each other after the blast, so not so much hearsay as well, shown on panel...

The level of volume you have the blast is all hearsay. For all we know the explosion could be no louder then a rocket car at the dragstrip.



not at all... she has trouble with very high density, that is true,

Good, you agree, now stop sidetracking and arguing this point that was done 3 pages ago.



confused you didn't get it? kind of, sort of, that you were contradicting yourself... no expression


No I wasn't, now enough with the off topic "points."


kitty fans? kitty fans? wow, you couldn't be wider of the mark... the woman is nowhere close to being my favourite character, sorry... erm
cyclops, colossus, emma, iceman, thor, hawkeye, the silver surfer, THE HULK, hank pym, psylocke, sage, captain america... just some of the characters i like more than shadowcat... sorry... erm


Who cares?



it has been shown consistently (explosions create massive shock-waves of concussive force and sound), but you obviously don't like it, so you choose to disregard it... not my fault...


Yeah and none of which are direct sonic attacks. I keep saying ONE scan of her taking some form of sonic attack is all I need.


and i don't think i'm the one who's getting frustrated, am i?



you call us kitty fans, yet seem to put the hulk on such a pedestal at the same time...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



and fyi: hulk's thunderclap is not a 'sonic based attack' it is a concussive shock-wave caused by massive air displacement... the sonic boom is just a secondary product of it...


So sonic booms > Hyperion?

What If...
Joey Stacks attempting to one-up Xmarksthespot?

Now THAT deserves an
'idiosyntric' smiley >>> laughing

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
The level of volume you have the blast is all hearsay. For all we know the explosion could be no louder then a rocket car at the dragstrip.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3292/axkittyphasefi0.th.jpg

that's a pretty loud rocket car...



oh good god... seriously... quit acting like a kid...



they aren't off topic if they're true...



you're the one who used the term 'kitty fans'



i did already, its at the top of my post... x did too... several pages back...



and that means?



you must have been in the bathroom when they were handing out deductive reasoning skills... that's it right?

Estacado
Kitty fans?
What tard...haermm

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3292/axkittyphasefi0.th.jpg

that's a pretty loud rocket car...

How do you even know how loud the explosion was?



oh good god... seriously... quit acting like a kid...

No, I'm saying stop trying to warp points. The point was she has trouble with high density, you agreed, what are you arguing for.

they aren't off topic if they're true...

Your point is neither true nor on topic


you're the one who used the term 'kitty fans'

Omg report me I just said you liked a character!


i did already, its at the top of my post... x did too... several pages back...

Where's the sonics?


and that means?


You're frustrated. Making sentences on how offensive being a Kitty fan is.

you must have been in the bathroom when they were handing out deductive reasoning skills... that's it right?

Bush league insults for the frustrating loss!

emporerpants
mr stacks, its funny how you question how loud that explosion was and say its volume is here say, and then try to say that the hulk is as dense as adamantium with absolutely no proof at all. now wouldn't that qualify as...oh i don't know....here say... perhaps?

Joey Stacks
His higher end feats put him in addy durability range.

emporerpants
you know, wolverine with his modest strength was able to cut or scrape the hulk...so tell me again how he's as dense as adamantium? last time i checked, adamantium on adamantium didn't result in cuts or scrapes in the metal.

emporerpants
and you do realize that hulks biggest asset is his healing factor right? not so much his durability?

Joey Stacks
1.) Wolverine was able to cut Thanos when he had the Infinity Gauntlet. Wolverine is not a good measure.

2.) Hulk's durability spikes as rapidly as his strength, hence his higher end feats put him there and not average showings.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
How do you even know how loud the explosion was?



oh good god... seriously... quit acting like a kid...

No, I'm saying stop trying to warp points. The point was she has trouble with high density, you agreed, what are you arguing for.

they aren't off topic if they're true...

Your point is neither true nor on topic


you're the one who used the term 'kitty fans'

Omg report me I just said you liked a character!


i did already, its at the top of my post... x did too... several pages back...

Where's the sonics?


and that means?


You're frustrated. Making sentences on how offensive being a Kitty fan is.

you must have been in the bathroom when they were handing out deductive reasoning skills... that's it right?

Bush league insults for the frustrating loss!

this will be the last time i quote you, because honestly, your inability to hold a conversation and debate on a reasonable level is just wasting my time...

i'm sorry if that sounds callous or mean, and i have no idea how old you are, but i just don't feel like answering questions like:



when they had been standing at ground zero in a blast that ravaged a city...

so that's it really... again, sorry if i come across as mean... erm

emporerpants
the thanos event was clearly pis and didn't happen more than once to my knowledge. wolverine manages to cut hulk pretty whenever they mix it up. it wolverine only cut hulk once, maybe i'd agree. as it stands, i don't. you can't use a couple of hulks higher showings as proof positive of his durability. again, his biggest asset is his healing factor. he was really as dense as adamantium as you claim, why would his healing factor have ever come into play?

Joey Stacks
Originally posted by pr1983
this will be the last time i quote you, because honestly, your inability to hold a conversation and debate on a reasonable level is just wasting my time...

i'm sorry if that sounds callous or mean, and i have no idea how old you are, but i just don't feel like answering questions like:



when they had been standing at ground zero in a blast that ravaged a city...

so that's it really... again, sorry if i come across as mean... erm

Not mean, frustrated that you've been countered on everything and asked to prove your hearsay. And like you said the blast ravaged a City, not the sound.



1.) The Hulk event wasn't PIS?

2.) Wolverine's cut Hulk once, and that was when he was Grey.

3.) Because he routinely fights beings that can damage Addy. Hell even the Hulk's damaged robots composed of Addy himself.

pr1983
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Not mean, frustrated that you've been countered on everything and asked to prove your hearsay. And like you said the blast ravaged a City, not the sound.



1.) The Hulk event wasn't PIS?

2.) Wolverine's cut Hulk once, and that was when he was Grey.

3.) Because he routinely fights beings that can damage Addy. Hell even the Hulk's damaged robots composed of Addy himself.

sure, frustrated, whatever dude... pot. kettle and all that...

Martian_mind
`Beast beats Hulk on his lonesome...


shifty

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Not mean, frustrated that you've been countered on everything and asked to prove your hearsay. And like you said the blast ravaged a City, not the sound.

1.) The Hulk event wasn't PIS?

2.) Wolverine's cut Hulk once, and that was when he was Grey.

3.) Because he routinely fights beings that can damage Addy. Hell even the Hulk's damaged robots composed of Addy himself. I have no qualms with being mean. You think that a blast that leveled a city didn't produce any sound, which is irrelevant anyway, because sound is kinetic energy. You made a bullshit claim about Hulk producing high frequency sonics when he claps his hands, then when this claim was shown as bullshit, you still continued to claim this. You base your entire non-argument on that Shadowcat has dialogue, when she has dialogue underground. You think Shadowcat, who has the ability to phase through matter and energy, can't phase through what equates to moving air. You haven't countered anything, yet you've deluded yourself into thinking you have.

Ergo you're an utter waste of time and I'm just going to follow pr's lead and give up on trying to convince you that Kitty has the ability to phase. But I wish you good luck in the tournament, and against long pig you'll need it, considering you have little else to rely on.

long pig
Hehe. Thunder clap is almost lethal to the little ****er.
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/wolverinethunderclap.jpg

xmarksthespot
Silly piggy, we all know that the thunderclap will get the hairy midget. doped

P.S. laughing out loud at the sig.

llagrok
Originally posted by long pig
Hehe. Thunder clap is almost lethal to the little ****er.
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/wolverinethunderclap.jpg

You do realize that was around 20 years ago? Before Wolverine lost/regained his adamantium. Back then a slit throat could kill him.

We all know Wolverine can handle much more.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Right over your head. The point wasn't it knocking them out, it was that it emits a high frequency sound wave which, in turn, has knocked people like Hyperion out (this is called an elaboration, you might want to try it some time!). No, its called circular reasoning.

"The point wasn't that it knocked them out, its that it knocked them out."

Originally posted by long pig
Hehe. Thunder clap is almost lethal to the little ****er.
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/wolverinethunderclap.jpg Isn't it odd that something almost lethal didn't even knock him out?

At any rate the runt can try and stall Hulk while the others set up a plan to take hulk down. Maybe by the time hulk KO's or BFRs the hairy bastard they'll come up with a means to the hulk's ends.

llagrok
They have, telepathy smile

Charlotte DeBel
I don't care what happens to Wolvie... Hulk may even eat him alive (though I doubt that would be a healthy meal)- as long as Wolvie distracts him long enough for Emma (protected by Kitty) to mindrape him or calm him down...

golem370
That's Gray Hulk imagine how the Green Hulk's thunderclap would have effected his ears. Image the punt kick the Hulk would have made If he had kicked Wolverine while he was on the ground.

The Pict
Originally posted by llagrok
Co-sign.

People are underestimating the women smile

Wolverine has fought Hulk before, he knows how to do it. Which is why he'll be the first one to attack. Although he won't fall, he'll definitely be knocked unconscious. Colossus and Armor can keep the Hulk occupied while Emma takes care of business. If anyone gets fatally wounded, Kitty can phase them out of the way.

Armor is gonna be a non factor I think. She tired out after expanding her armour to scare of the feral Beast, if i remember correctly, and that was only for a few seconds.
So Colossus will be the heavy hitter for the team.

llagrok
Originally posted by The Pict
Armor is gonna be a non factor I think. She tired out after expanding her armour to scare of the feral Beast, if i remember correctly, and that was only for a few seconds.
So Colossus will be the heavy hitter for the team.

She'll take a punch. Canon fodder, but Hulk takes his time swinging smile

pr1983
Originally posted by Creshosk
No, its called circular reasoning.

"The point wasn't that it knocked them out, its that it knocked them out."

Isn't it odd that something almost lethal didn't even knock him out?

At any rate the runt can try and stall Hulk while the others set up a plan to take hulk down. Maybe by the time hulk KO's or BFRs the hairy bastard they'll come up with a means to the hulk's ends.

good to see you back dude...

Madvillain
Originally posted by golem370
Vision couldn't phase threw Hulk I'd doubt Kitty would be able ether

If this is true, then Hulk could very well win this one.

janus77
already did, didn't he?

Bouboumaster
The Hulk would probably win 8/10

Kitty can serve as a defense for some time, until Hulk learn hot to smash her.

I'm not sure how is good the telepathy of Emma. But Kitty would have to help her, to protect her. She represent the only two wins I give them. Wolverine is the main distraction of the Hulk.
Everyone else besides these 3 are useless.

Madvillain
X-Men ftw then.

Madvillain
bumpity.

Metalmanx
X-Men.

janus77
Hulk wins.

MightyEInherjar
Hulk.

There's no way Kitty is going to try and phase him to his death, that's completely out of character. A thunderclap stuns half the team, and Emma gets her shit knocked around hard enough that she won't be able to concentrate enough to do real damage to the Hulk.

llagrok
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Hulk.

There's no way Kitty is going to try and phase him to his death, that's completely out of character. A thunderclap stuns half the team, and Emma gets her shit knocked around hard enough that she won't be able to concentrate enough to do real damage to the Hulk.

Then why did she use Wolverine's bone claw to finish off several people?

The Illuminati
Originally posted by Metalmanx
X-Men.


no

The Pict
The X-Men ftw

Metalmanx
Originally posted by The Illuminati
no

yes

Bouboumaster
After seeing WWH, I think that Hulk stomp.

Madvillain
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Hulk.

There's no way Kitty is going to try and phase him to his death, that's completely out of character. A thunderclap stuns half the team, and Emma gets her shit knocked around hard enough that she won't be able to concentrate enough to do real damage to the Hulk.


She was going to crush Scott's heart in Endsong when he asked her to. If Cyke gives her the command she will do it.

Madvillain
I'm gonna give it to the X-Men.

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