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Starcraft 2

Got announced today!

Blizzard: "HELL, IT'S ABOUT TIME!"


What do you think? Would you rather have had one of the other series to develop?

WOOO indeed about time!! lol, like that marine. i believe this is definatley what should of been developed, not because i say its better than Diablo which i may of actually been even more excited about...(then again ime pissin myself as it is over starcraft 2 omg wtf ) but i think theyve made WoW an RPG recently so i think its fair to say its turn for a RTS, we know they have all the talent for Starcraft and Diablos main brains are in Blizz north, so i think maybe blizz north may announce Diablo 3 soon and BLizz and blizz north try and duke it out for supremacy with their titles would be fun

I find myself wanting that $300 statue... *sigh*

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally after 10 years we get the most anticipated game ever (by most of my friends and me atleast) THANK YOU BLIZZARD.

So many years, and to be honest, it just looks like an updated version of the first Starcraft.

Okay, we all knew that, but still...I was hoping for something more.

Originally posted by Burning thought
WOOO indeed about time!! lol, like that marine. i believe this is definatley what should of been developed, not because i say its better than Diablo which i may of actually been even more excited about...(then again ime pissin myself as it is over starcraft 2 omg wtf ) but i think theyve made WoW an RPG recently so i think its fair to say its turn for a RTS, we know they have all the talent for Starcraft and Diablos main brains are in Blizz north, so i think maybe blizz north may announce Diablo 3 soon and BLizz and blizz north try and duke it out for supremacy with their titles would be fun

Did Blizz North not disband? I don't know why, but for some reason I have the memory that they did..

Me and my friends actually discussed a diablo RTS the other day, but came to the conclusion to state "No please".. It would feel like Blizzard is just doing games for the sake of the games and not for the sake of creating a good product.. We have the medieval Warcraft RTS and the Sci-Fi Starcraft.. We dont need another RTS

Since it was not Diablo 3 that arrived, I'm glad it was starcraft That's a game worthy of a sequel..

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
So many years, and to be honest, it just looks like an updated version of the first Starcraft.

Okay, we all knew that, but still...I was hoping for something more.

So far, we only have a few protoss things featured.. There is a lot more to be announced about Starcraft 2.. Honestly, it is jarts (just another real-time strategy).. The appearance can not differ that much.. The graphics are updated, new units are added.. New worlds to go by.. What more can you ask for a sequel?

I'm glad they didn't mess around with the original two much. A little more options a few extra units, bigger maps, better graphics and better AI are all I wanted.

Originally posted by Fire
I'm glad they didn't mess around with the original two much. A little more options a few extra units, bigger maps, better graphics and better AI are all I wanted.

Exactly.. An AI update is needed, among a number of other things.. I believe this game will be a huge success from Blizzard..

After a long line of WoW Shite (never been a fan of MMORPG)

I played WoW, but I got tired of it after some time

WoW aint shite its good but unbalanced

anyway yeh i wasnt expecting any more than wat you guys have said, new units, maps, AI etc etc, like to see the story ofc, ZERG OWN YOU TERRAN AND PROTOSS NOOBS!! anyway ofc i think all the races have a chance...nah their owned, Zerg infest em all!!!111!!

Zerg? Protoss is the pwnage.. They are superior all

bah!! a dieing race, their gonna get swallowed although their new immortals look awsome

I love protoss... but terrans just seem adaptable to more situations

hmm yeh the Terrans look cool in starcraft 2, cooler than before at least lol, although they must have thousands of those things to fit soldiers otherwise i would take forever

Ut3k0iBn_mE

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
So many years, and to be honest, it just looks like an updated version of the first Starcraft.

Okay, we all knew that, but still...I was hoping for something more.

i was hoping exactly for an updated version of SC. I was praying they didnt try to totally revolutionize it because its already a great game just needs some modernizing.

Oh god.. this thread gave me an orgasm.

I am PSYKED!

yeh ime psyched a bit, trouble is once again the old w8ting for the damned thing. I hope they update the graphics engine a bit though, looks a bit C&C to me, altho not a terrible thing but i was hoping for their own spiffy engine

http://www.starcraft2.com/

I'm shitting myself over this.

Starcraft was my favorite game forever.

Neat, new screens look neat.

Still, not enough information to get me really pumped, this isn't really a surprise.

Anyone know when it's coming out?

There will be a gameplay video tomorrow, I believe..

I saw some gameplay, a few Zealots were taking on marines. Others wouldn't download though.

I heard: November 5th, 2007 as Release.

Doubtful it will be that soon.

This is Blizzard, they are notorious for waiting and waiting until it's ready.

I'd guess next year at some point.

I just creamed my pants. Now I'm going to go watch Lost.

Originally posted by BackFire
Doubtful it will be that soon.

This is Blizzard, they are notorious for waiting and waiting until it's ready.

I'd guess next year at some point.

Well, it's been many years so far... Maybe it's been a project for awhile now?

I heard it's been in production since Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, so it has been a while.

They say it's in pre alpha stage. So it's still a ways off. I suppose a release for late this year is possible. I wouldn't get my hopes up, though.

I'm pretty sure they said 2009.

As far as I've seen there has been no release date yet. They just said "when it's done".

I do believe they haven't made it official, but from the way they normally work, we'll see it in 2011.

Haha

Pretty much.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
I'm pretty sure they said 2009.
AW SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!

My friend read that this has been worked on for 4 years.. It's not a recently started project, it's just recently announced..

And Blizzard told the world that we don't have to worry.. (this was before announcement):
Starcraft and Starcraft: Broodwars will have a continue before 2017..

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
I'm pretty sure they said 2009.

What they said was it will be out when it is finished. They have no hint as to a date. They also said it had been in development since 2003.

gameplay vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ol-mUx8Vx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMsm8M6eNu0&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwrWv37pTk

This will be awesome. Hopefully not for Vista only.

Ya know, it would be cool if they added Nova as a Terran Hero.

lol plz, no heroes~.. anything but that... >_<

What, you didn't like the Hero thing in the SC story line? I liked it. Though they weren't very helpful, it put an intresting twist on things.

id say late 2008 for this, i mean it looks pretty much deep into it, they have units for the races afterall, i mean sure their not all done but i think they could prob finish SC 2 by the end of 2008, maybe early 2009, early as in, January is what i predict...ofc as long as it isnt rushed and comes out clean and polished ill be happy

it took 13+ patches after starcraft came out to balance it

expect about the same for sc2

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
it took 13+ patches after starcraft came out to balance it

expect about the same for sc2

Diablo have so far made in total at least 7 RTS game things.. SC 2 being their eight.. With those 7 I count expansions and sequels to the original games..

They also have been working hard to keep balance in their other games.. I hardly believe we'll have to expect the same for SC2

Diablo 2 went through 11 patches to my knowledge

they dont count the expansions as seperate entities because they contain the same base material.. so the extra material the expansions contain are handled accordingly, thus the expansion and the base game are labeled under the same current patch version

you're saying because they spew out so many games that it will take them less time to patch this one?.. heh.. that'll be the day...

and I dont know where you pulled the number 7 from

Anyway Patch or no Patch StarCraft was a great game from the basic version on. I don't care if the game gets patched three dozen times as long as I can play it it's good.

Originally posted by Gannon
This will be awesome. Hopefully not for Vista only.
They already said it will be XP as well. I think it's in the FAQ on SC2.com

Nah you can always expect blizz to support both mac / pc and multiple OS'es... as well as a range of PC types (from low end to high end)

Yea which is a great philosophy!

Yea I'm glad this will be on MAC.


Oh and I'm freaking pumped for this game. 10 years later and we're finally getting SC2!!!!

w00t!!1

Originally posted by Gannon
This will be awesome. Hopefully not for Vista only.

Nah, man.

Most PC games will support XP for next 3 years.

Also, as of right now, SC2 is purely an Direct 9c game and not an direct 10.

I like how they havnt completely changed the formula. But I do expect that Blizzard has somethings underneath thier sleeve. They do make great games.

And if people want Diablo, get Hellgate when it comes out. It's done by the creators of Diablo. ( I think)

Originally posted by Smasandian
Nah, man.

Most PC games will support XP for next 3 years.

Also, as of right now, SC2 is purely an Direct 9c game and not an direct 10.

I like how they havnt completely changed the formula. But I do expect that Blizzard has somethings underneath thier sleeve. They do make great games.

And if people want Diablo, get Hellgate when it comes out. It's done by the creators of Diablo. ( I think)

yeh hes right, its made by flagship studios which is the old Blizzard north, its basically Diablo 3, only with swords AND guns ofc and i dont think they are allowed to take the same storyline cuz its blizzards, but yeh ime hyped for hellgate too, looks very diablo like

Yep.

I'm really exicted for SC2.

Those gameplay videos look awesome. The Protess mothership looks like it can kick some major ass.

yeh i been watching them, awsome ship, i think they should design it a bit diffrenctly, hope we still have carriers, their a major part of the protoss but that mothership rocks, time control ftw...it stops all those little rockets haha, beams the ground forces and calls a black hole to swallow 3 battlecruisers and 4 dropships, thats some heavey firepower

i love the look of those things htat can extend into pylons as well and the Zerg worm beasts that break through the ground and act as tunnels for them to move through, you can safely say they still have beautiful large numbers of units

I have to check out those gameplay vids, but they're soo big.

hmm yeh try youtube and stream them, downloading em, at least for my connection will take forever

Originally posted by Burning thought
id say late 2008 for this, i mean it looks pretty much deep into it, they have units for the races afterall, i mean sure their not all done but i think they could prob finish SC 2 by the end of 2008, maybe early 2009, early as in, January is what i predict...ofc as long as it isnt rushed and comes out clean and polished ill be happy


it could be sooner. This is a direct quote from a Q&A with some of the blizzard guys:

"the game is "very far along," and that the game is already playable in multiplayer with all three factions. "

ah well i hope so as much as you, its gonna be awsome if it comes out this year, but i dont want to hold on to hope, i fall short in it, so ill just w8 and see wat happens

I think early 2008 is when its going to be released.

From the gameplay vids, it looks like its really doing well in terms of development.

Yea it looks kick ass.

For people wanting too see the gameplay vids, go to Youtube, they stream much better then IGN etc. (though they are lower quality)

Anyways, I've been waiting almost 10 years for this game and I'm pumped, as you can tell from my Avatar/Sig that I hastily threw together in sheer excitement.

"We are the Blades of Aiur!"

Feckin sweeeeeeeet.

Those new Marine units look pretty nifty with those jet packs, and the new stalkers look awesome with thier "blinking"

One question though, I wonder who defense will be handle considering it seems to me the old tactics wont work.

I hope the game requires new tactics. It'll give me a chance to catch up with those damn Koreans...

Yea, the uber l33t people online (Koreans specifically) were the sole purpose of why I stopped playing StarCraft on Battle.net.

I'm also hoping that this game is much different so that everyone has to basically start from scratch experience and tactics wise.

I always played user defined maps

Like Turret Defense and some of those RPGesque ones.

That's why I loved SC so much...that and playing against the computer was fun.

Yes, well, it's this whole competitive manic obsession that has kinda killed my interest for the RTS genre. It reduces what at first seemed like an intriguing world down to the level of just numbers and bile.

Gah, I dunno, I really am much more 'meh;' abouut all this than I thought it would be. I look at it and know it's going to be all I hate about RTS all over again.

I never play RTSs online anyways... so I'm not really all 'leet' about it

I'm more of a LAN / Skirmish with friends type of player

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I never play RTSs online anyways... so I'm not really all 'leet' about it

I'm more of a LAN / Skirmish with friends type of player

same, you never kno how someone is playing at home, could be using a hack, some sort of device that gives them an advantage

But that's like every online game.

If it happens, just go to another one.

I also didnt like playing online for SC. I wasnt very good.

If I play online I play my friends, else it's LAN and Skirmish. I never bought a game to play it online. Most games (certainly RTS genre) get abused online. Yes you can end a StarCraft game in under 5 minutes, who gives a crap. It takes ya five minutes to develop the cool units.

cry this is gonna be a long wait, and i say that even if it does come out this year...having to wait at all is bothersome, just looking at how cute the zerglings are makes me wanna play, you notice they do a little jump like grasshopers

This year? Not a chance. The debate will be- '08 or '09?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This year? Not a chance. The debate will be- '08 or '09?

debate

Yea, there's no way its out this year, I'd say Q4 08 is the earliest reasonable time.

they are still in pre-internal alpha, which means they didnt even get to the point where the developer team tests out the game

I'd suggest getting obsessed with a different game for a while lol.. we wont see this game for at least 2 to 3 years maybe

probably, but still cool we finally know it's coming

I think an year and half from now.

3 years is way too long in my opinion, unless something drastic happens.

Blizzard does take awhile, but they're definitly not Valve, who have released 2 and half games in 9 years.

saw the gameplay trailer on this game, I'm definately downloading it once it comes out!!!

Originally posted by K73SK
saw the gameplay trailer on this game, I'm definately downloading it once it comes out!!!

Umm...Do you mean illegally downloading it? Because thats the only way you can "download" a new game. I would suggest buying it, you know...at a store.

who cares, you a cop? illegally or not i dont give a dam how he gets a copy, the only reason i dont download em is coz it would take me a whole week of internet taken up coz i got a slow connection

Well, we care, as illegal talk about downloading is not permitted here.

+ some games are just ment to be bought, this is one of them!

yeh, special edition for me if there is one

if they include an art book I'll think about it (the special edition that is)

otherwise regular retail is fine

I'll go regular, unless the special edition really has something to offer.

I'll be getting the special edition, if there is a special edition for the iMac version.

I was watching the 1up show and they were talking about SC2, and somehow those guys made me more exicted about the game than the announcement.

I guess it was the excitment of announcement that got them saying all the cool lines, " My Life for hire."....it was funny.

And then they started talking about the professional gamer named Boxer Slayer...so I went on Youtube...and I couldnt stop watching it.

It was awesome. He was doing an dropship marine drop in the opposing guys base, and the announcers were going nuts...and you can hear the crowd yelling and screaming while the guy was running his marines around.

Man, if SC2 needed an feature, its a feature that has crowd sounds whenever you make an crazy strategy..like an marine drop and shit like that. That would be awesome.

Haha, applause.

lol thats how koreans treat starcraft.. they wear fancy uniforms with sponsors all over them, and the narrator talks the audience through the battle

Originally posted by Smasandian
I was watching the 1up show and they were talking about SC2, and somehow those guys made me more exicted about the game than the announcement.

I guess it was the excitment of announcement that got them saying all the cool lines, " My Life for hire."....it was funny.

And then they started talking about the professional gamer named Boxer Slayer...so I went on Youtube...and I couldnt stop watching it.

It was awesome. He was doing an dropship marine drop in the opposing guys base, and the announcers were going nuts...and you can hear the crowd yelling and screaming while the guy was running his marines around.

Man, if SC2 needed an feature, its a feature that has crowd sounds whenever you make an crazy strategy..like an marine drop and shit like that. That would be awesome.

Although not that big a group of fans if they actually said 'hire'.

Yah, Yah, Yah,

I misheard them. Its, " My life for Aiur."

so is this the one out for the 360 right now?

Lol, I'm psyched about StarCraft 2. I love how they improved the AI but they decided to change the way of playing the same. They played it safe and that is really good, because otherwise it would come out like any other up to the date Strategy game :/

Oooh, and I even made a sig for Starcraft 2.

How the hell would you know that?

Also, how can a game that doesnt change, be unlike most RTS when Starcraft influenced alot of them?

Did you see the gameplay videos? For now I saw alot of improvements, but they put the graphics just a little up, but mostly left everything the same. I'm sure they added much more storyline, details, units, and structures and stuff thought. Another thing I saw is that when the Zealots attacked they automatically surround their opponents and begin attacking, which just shows that StarCraft 2 tried to do something with crowd control, from which many games are suffering when there are alot of units.

Originally posted by Phat J
so is this the one out for the 360 right now?

WTF? Starcraft has never and never will come out for the Xbox, I hope at least. SC has always been a PC game except for the flop on the N64.

Originally posted by Spidervlad
Did you see the gameplay videos? For now I saw alot of improvements, but they put the graphics just a little up, but mostly left everything the same. I'm sure they added much more storyline, details, units, and structures and stuff thought. Another thing I saw is that when the Zealots attacked they automatically surround their opponents and begin attacking, which just shows that StarCraft 2 tried to do something with crowd control, from which many games are suffering when there are alot of units.

Like I said, how do you know?

Some gameplay vidoes are not indicitive to what the game will be. Until people have actually played the game, thats when we can say if its changed or not.

Originally posted by Phat J
so is this the one out for the 360 right now?


yeeehhh thats the one

Originally posted by Smasandian
Like I said, how do you know?

Some gameplay vidoes are not indicitive to what the game will be. Until people have actually played the game, thats when we can say if its changed or not.

Yes, but i'm talking about the feel of the game. The feel that I used to have when playing Starcraft 1 returned to me as I saw the gameplay videos.

I learned how to type fast by playing StarCraft, because I kept on putting in the cheats for the heck of it, lol.

"All Your Base Are Belong to Us"

i checked, its starcraft ghost or some shit.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Starcraft 2

Got announced today!

Blizzard: "HELL, IT'S ABOUT TIME!"


What do you think? Would you rather have had one of the other series to develop? It looks amazing, but it seems they are overbalancing the Protoss again and will need about 10 patches before it turns out right.

Could it be the fact that havent gone too much into Terran and Zerg also?

Perhaps. But if they are only giving Protoss the one big unit that would break it. I guess I'll just have to see and hope they don't do what they did last Starcraft. (the game was excellent, but the protoss were a bit overpowered for a long time).

Protoss do look incredible so far, but i reckon blizzard know how to angle it, and i dont really care myself, simply because i have more fun fighting the AI, and imbalances rarely make the AI too strong, only human opponents take advantage of certain imbalances

still id still like to see a big fat Zerg beast, looking forward to see if they get a superunit, i reckon the Terrans are would have a super battlecruiser or a Goliath like unit for a super

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Perhaps. But if they are only giving Protoss the one big unit that would break it. I guess I'll just have to see and hope they don't do what they did last Starcraft. (the game was excellent, but the protoss were a bit overpowered for a long time).

Why the heck would that break it?

Besides, it was the Zerg that overpowered in SC originally. Zergling rush dominated the competitive game.

I just think Blizzard hasnt show 3/4 quarters of the game.

It was obvious they just showed the Protoss side and basically two new things for the Zergs and Terrans.

Game looks like a horse of shit to me. Just a graphical upgrade of the orginal...does anyone still play this game anyway?

.....it just looks like an updated version of the regualr starcraft, same concept and everthing. i'd prolly buy it for maybe $4.

yep Rage, I still play it. I think I read somewhere they were going to do big units for the Zerg and the Terran as well but don't remember where anymore.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Why the heck would that break it?

Besides, it was the Zerg that overpowered in SC originally. Zergling rush dominated the competitive game. It would break it if the other races didn't get one.

Before the patches they were both overpowered. But after the patches Zerg was weak, Marines were in just the original. Some P-toss combinations couldn't be touched by Zerg.

CM if one race gets a big unit, that isn't de facto a strategic 'advantage'. The other races could get an extra 'advantage' in another way as well.

I'm pretty sure all three races get big units.

They just didnt show the Zerg and Terran ones.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Game looks like a horse of shit to me. Just a graphical upgrade of the orginal...does anyone still play this game anyway?


About 50,000 people do, yeah

And it's not like theres much of the concept you can change for an RTS in the first place.

Originally posted by Bruce Leeroy
About 50,000 people do, yeah

And it's not like theres much of the concept you can change for an RTS in the first place.

hes right, what new concept could one possibly change?, especially for a classic, you could not change this game for the better i doubt it, certain things people can think of would prob be fun but usually usless, imbalancing or impossible things

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It would break it if the other races didn't get one.

Before the patches they were both overpowered. But after the patches Zerg was weak, Marines were in just the original. Some P-toss combinations couldn't be touched by Zerg.

No it would not break it if the other races did not get one. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

It's just one unit. So long as its value is proportionate to its resource cost, the fact that it is a unique thing that only Protoss gets makes absolutely no comment about balance at all.

Really, that criticism makes not the slightest bit of sense.

if it was a free unit, then it would break balance. If its cost was disproportioante to its danger, it woild break balance. But it is just a big unit that they happen to only be able to buy one of. That breaks nothing. Very simply, the equivalent multiple units of same resource cost that other races get should be of equal value, simple as that.

Like anything, if the unit is balanced, the game is not unbalanced.

Originally posted by Phat J
so is this the one out for the 360 right now?

There is no StarCraft out for the 360 at all. And there wont be. StarCraft Ghost was "indefinitely postponed" (A.K.A. Cancelled) and Blizzard confirmed that StarCraft II will be PC/iMac only. No consoles, sorry. This game shouldn't be on the consoles anyways.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No it would not break it if the other races did not get one. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

It's just one unit. So long as its value is proportionate to its resource cost, the fact that it is a unique thing that only Protoss gets makes absolutely no comment about balance at all.

Really, that criticism makes not the slightest bit of sense.

if it was a free unit, then it would break balance. If its cost was disproportioante to its danger, it woild break balance. But it is just a big unit that they happen to only be able to buy one of. That breaks nothing. Very simply, the equivalent multiple units of same resource cost that other races get should be of equal value, simple as that.

Like anything, if the unit is balanced, the game is not unbalanced. Its powers did seem overpowered (which they said they were working on), and my comment wasn't specifically to that concept it was to the overall race in general. My point was that giving a race one particular unit like that and not the others would change balance because it would change an interface of gameplay and give that race options that the other races didn't have. If anyone hadn't noticed, this time around the units are more "rock-paper-scissors" than in the last game. This Starcraft had units that were specifically created to counter other units and nothing else. Like the reapers countering the immortals. This unit seemed like it didn't have a "counter unit". It would be the thing that would be taken down by a vast number of units or a large combination of them.

That's just like if the Protoss had an addition 10 or 20 units it would become increasingly imbalanced because they would have more options. Hence the reason they generally make counterparts to certain units and give them roles on similar parts of the tech tree.

Siege Tank=Reaver=Lurker. Etc.

But I'm not sure the development of the game, I was saying what I saw from the video. At that point it seemed the protoss was. In short I guess it just needs more time.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
There is no StarCraft out for the 360 at all. And there wont be. StarCraft Ghost was "indefinitely postponed" (A.K.A. Cancelled) and Blizzard confirmed that StarCraft II will be PC/iMac only. No consoles, sorry. This game shouldn't be on the consoles anyways.

I hope Ghost somehow gets put back into production because the game sounded awesome.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No it would not break it if the other races did not get one. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

It's just one unit. So long as its value is proportionate to its resource cost, the fact that it is a unique thing that only Protoss gets makes absolutely no comment about balance at all.

Really, that criticism makes not the slightest bit of sense.

if it was a free unit, then it would break balance. If its cost was disproportioante to its danger, it woild break balance. But it is just a big unit that they happen to only be able to buy one of. That breaks nothing. Very simply, the equivalent multiple units of same resource cost that other races get should be of equal value, simple as that.

Like anything, if the unit is balanced, the game is not unbalanced.

That unit in and of itself can easily be the deciding factor in any battle. There are many other things to consider in balance other than just cost and destructive capacity. The mothership by itself introduces not only an addition to the protoss arsenal, but an addition to the protoss strategy and it essentially adds a new concept to the game. Similar to heroes in warcraft (but obviously not of the same magnitude). What you basically have is a one man army that can change your ability to fight from "nothing" to "substantial" the instant it comes out of the factory. And you can hide it too. If no one knows you have one you have a lot of leverage. I don't know about you, but to me, that spells out "trump card".
And yes if the races are to be balanced, all of them need a trump card or none of them do.

Aren't you guys getting way ahead of yourself by basing this on a few videos and bits of interviews?

Exactly.

Especially, considering I thought I heared them say that they're just previewing Protoss.

It would make sense considering they showed 1 new unit for Terrans, and two new units for Zerg (or 1 new unit, and one ability for Zerglings)

Yes, they are just previewing the Protoss, they haven't touched the other races yet.

There really is nothing to be worried about.

Zerg banelings rule they evolve quite fast judging by the videos

Originally posted by Pyropsycho
That unit in and of itself can easily be the deciding factor in any battle. There are many other things to consider in balance other than just cost and destructive capacity. The mothership by itself introduces not only an addition to the protoss arsenal, but an addition to the protoss strategy and it essentially adds a new concept to the game. Similar to heroes in warcraft (but obviously not of the same magnitude). What you basically have is a one man army that can change your ability to fight from "nothing" to "substantial" the instant it comes out of the factory. And you can hide it too. If no one knows you have one you have a lot of leverage. I don't know about you, but to me, that spells out "trump card".
And yes if the races are to be balanced, all of them need a trump card or none of them do.

No, that's still nonsense.

IF that unit is unbalanced, it unbalances the game.

But if ANY unit is unbalanced, it unbalances the game. Tjhe fact that this unit is a. big and b. you can onoy build one of them changes nothing at all.

It is nonsense to try and make up extra things that make my statement above void. Total nonsense. because only one thing counts- its effectuveness compared to its cost. Absolutely anything useful you give to it is simply part of its effectiveness. So long as its cost is in proportion to its usefulness, nothing else matters.

Saying that just because the Protoss have a unique unit it unbalances the game is the same as saying just becauswe the Zerg in the original had a growth instead of a build structure ruined the game. It's nonsense, it was all in proportion.

It's very poor perspective to think there is fundamentally any difference between a unit you can build one of and one you can build lots of. It is still just a unit.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Its powers did seem overpowered (which they said they were working on), and my comment wasn't specifically to that concept it was to the overall race in general. My point was that giving a race one particular unit like that and not the others would change balance because it would change an interface of gameplay and give that race options that the other races didn't have. If anyone hadn't noticed, this time around the units are more "rock-paper-scissors" than in the last game. This Starcraft had units that were specifically created to counter other units and nothing else. Like the reapers countering the immortals. This unit seemed like it didn't have a "counter unit". It would be the thing that would be taken down by a vast number of units or a large combination of them.

That's just like if the Protoss had an addition 10 or 20 units it would become increasingly imbalanced because they would have more options. Hence the reason they generally make counterparts to certain units and give them roles on similar parts of the tech tree.

Siege Tank=Reaver=Lurker. Etc.

But I'm not sure the development of the game, I was saying what I saw from the video. At that point it seemed the protoss was. In short I guess it just needs more time.

That's very strange to say, because Starcraft is renowned as one of the most R-P-S mechaniced games ever made.

Talking of Immortals- what a very weird name for them.

Well that's why I'm slowing down and saying I'll wait and see. But Starcraft is still nevertheless one of the most balanced around. Definitely more balanced than Warcraft.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, that's still nonsense.

IF that unit is unbalanced, it unbalances the game.

But if ANY unit is unbalanced, it unbalances the game. Tjhe fact that this unit is a. big and b. you can onoy build one of them changes nothing at all.

It is nonsense to try and make up extra things that make my statement above void. Total nonsense. because only one thing counts- its effectuveness compared to its cost. Absolutely anything useful you give to it is simply part of its effectiveness. So long as its cost is in proportion to its usefulness, nothing else matters.

Saying that just because the Protoss have a unique unit it unbalances the game is the same as saying just becauswe the Zerg in the original had a growth instead of a build structure ruined the game. It's nonsense, it was all in proportion.

It's very poor perspective to think there is fundamentally any difference between a unit you can build one of and one you can build lots of. It is still just a unit.

This is where your wrong. Many people are under the impression that any unit can be balanced by weighing it's effectiveness in battle, mobility, etc. and making it all one big number to say that's how much it costs. And I'm afraid it's not nearly that simple.
Just having the option of building a mothership produces a multitude of contingencies and possible strategies exclusive to the protoss. As I was saying the concept behind it is a trump card. Expensive or not it's an asset that is more than just fire power. For example: The enemy attacks your base. You send your mothership out to attack one of their outposts and they have to turn their guys around to stop you. A one-man diversion. There are times in an SC game where I'd be willing to pay 3000 minerals for an asset like that. And it's just one unit. go figure.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's very strange to say, because Starcraft is renowned as one of the most R-P-S mechaniced games ever made.

Talking of Immortals- what a very weird name for them.

"immortals" was kind of odd. I mean it fits the description, but I like "dragoons" better.

I always disliked 'dragoons', not so much in name but as a unit. Dunno why tbh I love playing Toss but I never liked Dragoons. Same goes for Reavers (far too much managing).

Originally posted by Pyropsycho
There are times in an SC game where I'd be willing to pay 3000 minerals for an asset like that. And it's just one unit. go figure.

What if the MS costs 3K to build?

i imagine it will also take a large number of supply and take a substantial time to create. Your argument about it unbalancing really doesnt make sense to me.

i think it will be balanced, its blizzard, they can balance, even if it takes a while to be perfect balance, until then its going to be awsome fun which is more important imo

Originally posted by Pyropsycho
This is where your wrong. Many people are under the impression that any unit can be balanced by weighing it's effectiveness in battle, mobility, etc. and making it all one big number to say that's how much it costs. And I'm afraid it's not nearly that simple.
Just having the option of building a mothership produces a multitude of contingencies and possible strategies exclusive to the protoss. As I was saying the concept behind it is a trump card. Expensive or not it's an asset that is more than just fire power. For example: The enemy attacks your base. You send your mothership out to attack one of their outposts and they have to turn their guys around to stop you. A one-man diversion. There are times in an SC game where I'd be willing to pay 3000 minerals for an asset like that. And it's just one unit. go figure.

Sorry, all that is just noise. It doesn't change anything at all.

You know, the odd thing is, that if there WASN'T a unit limit on this, no-one woule be complaining. People would say "Well, it is powerful, but it costs a lot, so that's ok."

But then they make it so you can only have one of them, and suddenly it becomes unbalancing? What total nonsense!

It's just another unit. Like any other unit.

Your example is ludicrous. You could make a diversion with any unit, or group of units of the same cost as this one. Make the same example and simply substitute six battlecruisers for this Protoss unit and the final effect is identical. If this Protoss units costs the same as six battlecruisers, why does the fact it is one unit make any difference? I mean, are you just very bad at selecting more than one unit?

You're making no sense at all, and you are going to find this is a load of fuss over something irrelevant.

Originally posted by Pyropsycho
"immortals" was kind of odd. I mean it fits the description, but I like "dragoons" better.

Well, it doesn't really defeat the descriotion, because they're not really immortal, and the military reference is to the ancestral unit that always replaced its dead so it was at the same strength- hence, Immortal, everlasting.

The description for these guys specifies that they are ever getting fewer and fewer, which kinda blows that out the window.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Sorry, all that is just noise. It doesn't change anything at all.

You know, the odd thing is, that if there WASN'T a unit limit on this, no-one woule be complaining. People would say "Well, it is powerful, but it costs a lot, so that's ok."

But then they make it so you can only have one of them, and suddenly it becomes unbalancing? What total nonsense!

It's just another unit. Like any other unit.

Your example is ludicrous. You could make a diversion with any unit, or group of units of the same cost as this one. Make the same example and simply substitute six battlecruisers for this Protoss unit and the final effect is identical. If this Protoss units costs the same as six battlecruisers, why does the fact it is one unit make any difference? I mean, are you just very bad at selecting more than one unit?

You're making no sense at all, and you are going to find this is a load of fuss over something irrelevant.


If you want to play the numbers game (this costs this, and that costs that) at least account for build times. Assume that it is worth six BCs in terms of overall effectiveness. Blizzard isn't gonna make a unit that takes ten minutes to roll off the assembly line. tech tree wise you're guarenteed it'll be at the top. But once it's buildable, it won't take THAT long to make. The longest amount of time I see blizzard possibly putting into making a unit "like any other unit" would be as much as a level 2 upgrade, which is pushing it anyway (cause that's more than twice the time it takes to make a BC).
Also if you know anything at all about starcraft, you know that different units have certain strengths and weaknesses. take a corsair vs. a scout. The corsair costs much less than a scout. But would a group of scouts or corsairs take the most casualties from a scourge rush? scouts obviously. Their missiles take too long to hit their target. Cost does not determine effectiveness. That is a very basic principle in just about any RTS.
If you saw the mothership, it's function in battle would probably be heavy support and quickly leveling small bases. Have her behind a bunch of little pawn units and you can see the effects from that video. As for bases just send her in everytime she has full energy, turn up the shields and use that beam thing until you're all out. Then run the hell away before reinforcements come.
And if it's just "like any other unit" you can recall it with an arbiter, which makes it REALLY broken.
Likewise it has it's weaknesses. It may have about the effectiveness as three or four BCs in terms of base killing but the video also showed that that's all it takes to bring one down, a few battlecruisers.
So overall it might be a good idea to make a mothership hit a small outpost or provide firesupport for your army, but it would be a bad idea to send her alone to fight other large units. See how much her effectiveness ranges based on her function? One way she's leveling bases, another she's squashed by a few BCs.
Bottom line is there are a lot more factors to effectiveness than cost. Function in battle, versatility, and ease of management all determine effectiveness. And you can't just make some grand formula to work all those factors down into one big cost. It doesn't work that way, especially for Blizzard, they are way too intricate with the balance procedure, to use just a simple formula to solve all their problems.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, it doesn't really defeat the descriotion, because they're not really immortal, and the military reference is to the ancestral unit that always replaced its dead so it was at the same strength- hence, Immortal, everlasting.

The description for these guys specifies that they are ever getting fewer and fewer, which kinda blows that out the window.

The immortals from the Persians? you could use that I guess. But I'm pretty sure all a dragoon is is a resurrected protoss warrior, in that since they came back to life so they resemble an immortal.
hell maybe immortals are really resurrected dragoons .

Originally posted by Pyropsycho
If you want to play the numbers game (this costs this, and that costs that) at least account for build times. Assume that it is worth six BCs in terms of overall effectiveness. Blizzard isn't gonna make a unit that takes ten minutes to roll off the assembly line. tech tree wise you're guarenteed it'll be at the top. But once it's buildable, it won't take THAT long to make. The longest amount of time I see blizzard possibly putting into making a unit "like any other unit" would be as much as a level 2 upgrade, which is pushing it anyway (cause that's more than twice the time it takes to make a BC).
Also if you know anything at all about starcraft, you know that different units have certain strengths and weaknesses. take a corsair vs. a scout. The corsair costs much less than a scout. But would a group of scouts or corsairs take the most casualties from a scourge rush? scouts obviously. Their missiles take too long to hit their target. Cost does not determine effectiveness. That is a very basic principle in just about any RTS.
If you saw the mothership, it's function in battle would probably be heavy support and quickly leveling small bases. Have her behind a bunch of little pawn units and you can see the effects from that video. As for bases just send her in everytime she has full energy, turn up the shields and use that beam thing until you're all out. Then run the hell away before reinforcements come.
And if it's just "like any other unit" you can recall it with an arbiter, which makes it REALLY broken.
Likewise it has it's weaknesses. It may have about the effectiveness as three or four BCs in terms of base killing but the video also showed that that's all it takes to bring one down, a few battlecruisers.
So overall it might be a good idea to make a mothership hit a small outpost or provide firesupport for your army, but it would be a bad idea to send her alone to fight other large units. See how much her effectiveness ranges based on her function? One way she's leveling bases, another she's squashed by a few BCs.
Bottom line is there are a lot more factors to effectiveness than cost. Function in battle, versatility, and ease of management all determine effectiveness. And you can't just make some grand formula to work all those factors down into one big cost. It doesn't work that way, especially for Blizzard, they are way too intricate with the balance procedure, to use just a simple formula to solve all their problems.

Build time is part of cost. it is just one of those things you have to make proportionate. It doesn't matter how good or intricate Blizzard are. Cost is cost, from any source, from mineral cost to build time to tech tree awkwardness. Effectiveness is effectiveness, from any source, from combat strength to special abilities to ease of use. If the cost is proportionate to the effectiveness, it is fine.

And hence the fact remains that absolutely everything you just said there does not change a single thing about what I said- that the fact it is a. powerful and b. unique does not in any way make it broken. Only if it is disproportionately good is it broken, and there is not a shred of evidence to say that it is.

To believe it is unbalancing just because it is unique and that the Terran and Zerg do not have such a thing is simply very silly and thoughtless.

Now with you yourself admitting that it's not that hard to bring down, I am not even sure what you are trying to argue here any more.

A lesson here about hasty statements, I feel.

i think it will be balanced, its blizzard, they can balance, even if it takes a while to be perfect balance, until then its going to be awsome fun which is more important imo
___________
I think too ,the blizzard have amazing talent in balance.
And they work on every detail.
They can make best game

i swear i typed out what was above

Which video showed it brought down with a few BC's?

Played this game, it was amazingly fun, cannot wait for it to come out

When did you play it?

Blizzcon 07

Cool.

I assume you saw the new units in action?

What about the Zerg? I havnt heared alot of new info on them. I know the Protess have a ton of new units and the Terran have a few but the only two Zerg units I know are the big worms and the zergs that join together to form some sort of explosion balls.

Originally posted by Smasandian
Cool.

I assume you saw the new units in action?

What about the Zerg? I havnt heared alot of new info on them. I know the Protess have a ton of new units and the Terran have a few but the only two Zerg units I know are the big worms and the zergs that join together to form some sort of explosion balls.
There's no zerg section up yet on the website....pity, I'm looking forward to them most.

I've always been a Terran.

But I generally only play SP for Starcraft.

It's strange but I rarely play online for RTS. I get too overwhelmed because I play the SP very slowly. I like taking my time in RTS's.

I like protoss.. but I suck really really bad at starcraft and war3

Originally posted by Smasandian
I've always been a Terran.

But I generally only play SP for Starcraft.

It's strange but I rarely play online for RTS. I get too overwhelmed because I play the SP very slowly. I like taking my time in RTS's.
Yeah same. Slowly but surely....amass a big army and lay waste.

Lets just say, Protoss ftw shockyes

Originally posted by DarkC
Yeah same. Slowly but surely....amass a big army and lay waste.

I've always been a more defensive player in RTS's. I love having rows of Bunkers, and Turrets and Siege Tanks and then attack knowing that the other team will take forever to kill me.

But its extremely hard to do in online play.

Even though, I love Company Of Heroes and World In Conflict looks very promising (played the demo), it seems that alot of RTS's are going towards the more attack orientated gameplay rather than a combination of both offense and defense.

I liked Supreme Commander because it offered a way of building defenses and actually winning but bombing the shit out of them, but there was a few elements that I didnt really like that game.

Static defense is pretty much obsolete in multiplayer online StarCraft. A waste of resources not to mention space....you're much better off with upgraded units. Against a CPU it is effective though, because they don't know how to mass to save their own artificial hides.


At least they didn't used to...