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All U.S. citizens to receive National ID card by 2008

The Real ID Act, passed by Congress and signed by President Bush on May 11, 2005, mandates that all U.S. citizens will receive a National ID card by May of 2008.


Without this National ID, you won't...


Drive your car
Board a plane, train, or bus
Enter any federal building
Open a bank account
Hold a job


May I see your paper. . .I mean Federal Identification card.

c7pHb7bPfMc

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70992,00.html

Maybe this will be the signal for so many people here at this site that have been living in denial over issues such as this and 9-11,to pull their heads out of their butts and realise the NWO we have been talking about is indeed here right now and we have now gone down the same path of nazi germany.wonder how many others are gonna still live in denial on this that the NWO is indeed here when they are given that National Id card next year that we have been talking about here in this section for the last few years but it just fell on death ears.

Thier going to combine all this information into GIG(Global Information Grid) a tracking/information unit that is the next stage of Digital Angel.

Digital Angel Corporation develops advanced RFID and GPS technologies that enable rapid and accurate identification, location tracking, and condition monitoring of high-value assets. Applications for our products include identification and monitoring of pets, humans, fish and livestock through our patented implantable microchips as well as message monitoring of aircraft in remote locations through integrated GPS and geosynchronous satellite communications systems.

http://www.digitalangelcorp.com/ <--- Digital Angel's website.

Get ready to take a stand.

Or find yourself soon a slave to technological "demons".

GIG will be regulated by the Federal Government.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Digital Angel Corporation develops advanced RFID and GPS technologies that enable rapid and accurate identification, location tracking, and condition monitoring of high-value assets. Applications for our products include identification and monitoring of pets, humans, fish and livestock through our patented implantable microchips as well as message monitoring of aircraft in remote locations through integrated GPS and geosynchronous satellite communications systems.

http://www.digitalangelcorp.com/ <--- Digital Angel's website.

Since when did Human Beings become "High-Value Assets" for corporations?

I have never thought of myself as a high-value asset for a corporation. I've thought of myself as a piece of the Creator. Maybe thats just me though.

So folks, how is it going to feel to be monitored by a corporation that considers you to be a "High-Value-Asset" when you owe no allegiance what-so-ever to it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XObbEwI6P4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpJDMpTFtcw&mode=related&search=

Here's the next step:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=209842906347732903

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Get ready to take a stand.

Or find yourself soon a slave to technological "demons".

yep.thats the message you been trying to get across to them but the did not want to listen to .well they're not going to be able to ignore it anymore once they get that ID issued to them next year.

thats just the start to get you used to this control.
microchips are the real goal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82L3qU33CwY&mode=related&search= -

On June 6, 2006, 6-6-6-, George Bush announces the REAL ID System.

yeah if people dont start taking a stand now against this they will then have given the elite all the power they want and they will be under their control.are they going to do the same thing and go along with it as well when they start implanting the microchips in them?

What is wrong with National Id card?

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82L3qU33CwY&mode=related&search= -

On June 6, 2006, 6-6-6-, George Bush announces the REAL ID System.

Strange, the Bill was passed on 2005.

Originally posted by Lord Melkor
What is wrong with National Id card?

Gives too much power to the Federal Government, Infringes on privacy, Infringes on the Tenth Amendment and is a gateway to many un-constitional policy's to come.

The REAL ID act will be too easily counterfeited by illegals and criminals. It will be this way by design.

After the REAL ID act is shown to be obsolete, the implants will be introduced.

It's all part of the plan folks.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
The REAL ID act will be too easily counterfeited by illegals and criminals. It will be this way by design.

After the REAL ID act is shown to be obsolete, the implants will be introduced.

It's all part of the plan folks.

Did you watch the video I posted, because this agenda isn't only limited to inserting chips in people. There's a huge Transhumanist agenda called NEU Babylon or NEU Garden of Eden.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Did you watch the video I posted, because this agenda isn't only limited to inserting chips in people. There's a huge Transhumanist agenda called NEU Babylon or NEU Garden of Eden.
I've watched all the videos in this thread if thats what you mean.

This stuff could not be more obvious.

Hidden in plain view. Just the way they like it.

so we're going to have one document that takes the place of three documents (drivers license, soc sec card, birth certificate).......what's the big deal? that looks like efficiency to me. everything you listed.....you have to have ID to do now.

you crazy kids and your "boogeyman is out to get me" shit........

Sounds good.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
so we're going to have one document that takes the place of three documents (drivers license, soc sec card, birth certificate).......what's the big deal? that looks like efficiency to me. everything you listed.....you have to have ID to do now.

you crazy kids and your "boogeyman is out to get me" shit........

Lemme ask you a question, when they decide that inserting chips within a human being are mandatory. Will you think it's okay as well.

The cards contain RFID (Radio Frequency Identification ) which can be used to track you.


-Are you also OK with the NSA spying on american phone calss legally.

-The suspension of the constitution

-And the end of the balance of powers

How can you call yourself an american and be okay with that?

yep sounds like he wants to be a slave to their system.

What is referred to as a" smart card" is the method by which these cards will operate.

They will contain the inclusion of RFID technology which will mean a tiny microchip implanted in their make up which will contain pertinent data on each cardholder respectively.

The data will be available to such machines as Card readers that will transmit a signal that the card will answer with a download to the reader of the contents of the cards chip.

This information will consist of medical recrds, and personall data like previous convictions,be they federal or state, perhaps a military record of service, and a link to the big computer data bases which hold other info such as financial, political, personal, and other data deemed appropriate for collection and storage of every ones personal lives....

Money and hardware has been allocated to this intelligence project in the past, but it was disassembled onti chunks by congress, though they did not stop its separate entities form completion.

The re-combination of these elements will be swift and the origonal intentions of it met with the issuance of these national IDs.

The data base already exists!

The cards will also act as a survielance tool of unerring accuracy that will be employed against every american and foriegn resident.

All movement within the country and outside it will be monitored through large computing capacity, and the card will be required for so many things as to give a very detailed description of movements and whereabouts, as well as financial and other information that will make our lives transparant to analysis and subject to review and question with very little personal freedom or privacy allowed to exist.

Will these microchips put an AI in our brain, like Cortana?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Lemme ask you a question, when they decide that inserting chips within a human being are mandatory. Will you think it's okay as well.

The cards contain RFID (Radio Frequency Identification ) which can be used to track you.


-Are you also OK with the NSA spying on american phone calss legally.

-The suspension of the constitution

-And the end of the balance of powers

How can you call yourself an american and be okay with that?

I sure am ok with it.

why do I care if I'm tracked? Hell......I carry a cell phone with me at all times. if the evil gubbermet wanted to track me, there's the signal.....hell, they could lock onto the on-star signal from my car if they wanted. Why do I care if they know where I am......I'm not the one breaking laws. If they have to know when I'm at home, Wal-mart or work to be able to account for persons in the area where a crime is committed, I guess it's a fair trade. The only people this affects negatively is those who do not wish to have their location known because it could implicate them in a crime.

I could care less about the government listening to phone calls. the only people in negatively affect are those people who are up to no good. George W. doesn't care about the phone call I place to my mom's house an hour before the cookout telling her I like my steak medium-well. If the NSA has to know that I like my steak medium-well just to stop a few terrorists, drug cartels or crime raquets.....I guess that's just a price I'm going to have to pay. Ok, they've got me. Shit.....I guess they're going to find out I like sweet and tangy A1 sauce on it too.

I don't exactly get the whole "suspension of the constitution" remark.....parts perhaps....but not all. See....the constitution was made ammendable precisely because our forefathers knew that what worked in 1776 wasn't going to work in 2976. They made changing the document a built in measure. If the founders of our country would have wanted the country to be held under all the same laws as it was in 1776 for the rest of eternity, they would not have made the document ammendable. In 1776, black people were not even considered humans. They were 3/4 of a human. Let me guess.....you wish that hadn't been changed also don't you. We would all have our less than human slaves doing everything for us......America would be grand!

Originally posted by Evil Dead
I sure am ok with it.

why do I care if I'm tracked? Hell......I carry a cell phone with me at all times. if the evil gubbermet wanted to track me, there's the signal.....hell, they could lock onto the on-star signal from my car if they wanted. Why do I care if they know where I am......I'm not the one breaking laws. If they have to know when I'm at home, Wal-mart or work to be able to account for persons in the area where a crime is committed, I guess it's a fair trade. The only people this affects negatively is those who do not wish to have their location known because it could implicate them in a crime.

So, you do not mind being treated like a criminal and having your privacy sacrificed?

Do you honestly believe this is what are Founding Fathers wanted, an America where people are tagged and spied on like criminals. This isn't Nazi germany this is America, and when the government Spies on it's people, publicy admitts it with no oppossition than something is wrong.


Are you okay with being chipped too?


Originally posted by Evil Dead


I don't exactly get the whole "suspension of the constitution" remark.....parts perhaps....but not all. See....the constitution was made ammendable precisely because our forefathers knew that what worked in 1776 wasn't going to work in 2976. They made changing the document a built in measure. If the founders of our country would have wanted the country to be held under all the same laws as it was in 1776 for the rest of eternity, they would not have made the document ammendable. In 1776, black people were not even considered humans. They were 3/4 of a human. Let me guess.....you wish that hadn't been changed also don't you. We would all have our less than human slaves doing everything for us......America would be grand!

Oh please, I was obviously reffering to the Bill Of Rights when I mentioned the constituion. Since they protect our Natural Liberties, and keep government in check.

I guess you wouldn't really care if we lived in a Police State as well.

yeh but evil dead if there was really a threat out there then it would be ok. but they are lying to us so they cant control us. its about control. its not about protecting us .

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/october/crimcam.jpg
The image they want you to buy ... but it is really about control, not criminals

i cant believe people are making up exuses to support this tyranny and fascism

Not too mention that it's legal to capture americans secretly and torture them indefinetly.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Strange, the Bill was passed on 2005.



Gives too much power to the Federal Government, Infringes on privacy, Infringes on the Tenth Amendment and is a gateway to many un-constitional policy's to come.

In almost entire Europe exists something like National ID Card and it is in my opinion rather strenghtening citizen rights than infringing on them

Originally posted by Wisienki
In almost entire Europe exists something like National ID Card and it is in my opinion rather strenghtening citizen rights than infringing on them

How?

Originally posted by Wisienki
In almost entire Europe exists something like National ID Card and it is in my opinion rather strenghtening citizen rights than infringing on them

you cannot be serious?

I'm quite sure he is.

Originally posted by Deano
yeh but evil dead if there was really a threat out there then it would be ok. but they are lying to us so they cant control us. its about control. its not about protecting us .

http://www.davidicke.com/oi/extras/october/crimcam.jpg
The image they want you to buy ... but it is really about control, not criminals

i cant believe people are making up exuses to support this tyranny and fascism


Thats crazy. Of course there are threats. If there wasn't then I'd walk down my street at night time.....but there is so I can't. Did Icke suggest that theory? Its easy for him to say that cause he's rich and doesn't live in a threating area. That reminds me of when Micheal Moore walked down a street in L.A. He's such a ass for making it seem as if it was sooo safe. I bet alot of idiots went there thinking it was okay to walk down that street and got shot or robbed cause of that dumb ass.

We all know where this is going, how many wanna bet that those who refuse the National ID will be labeled terrorist.


Hell, under section 501 of Patriot Act II, an american can be expatrated if the Federal Government "Feels" like the individual has the intent to become a terrorist, and they dop not even have to offer proof that the individual had said intent as statedin another section. Do you understand how criminal that is?

Originally posted by Mr Parker
you cannot be serious?

Why not?

Imagine yourself in situation when a person doesn`t have passport, driving license or health insurance - does this person exist? How can this person take a credit for example?

ID makes it all easier.

how is being able to completely eliminate my name from those suspected of a crime in a matter of seconds via digital data that would show I was no where near the place a crime was committed treating me like a criminal? It's the exact opposite. As stated earlier, this is all great for we law abiding citizens. Only the criminals have any reason to be against it.



don't pretend to know the founders of our country. Such technologies were not even imagined during their time. With all the thought that went into our constitution concerning the rights of those accused of a crime, I believe if a method of knowing 100% certain if a person did or did not commit a crime were available at the time......they would have been all for it.



damn straight. that would actually be much easier. I'd never have to worry about forgetting my ID at home. Hell.....it would be better if they made it so that all cash transactions could be done electronically via the chip and it also kept my medical records on it. I'd never have to worry about forgetting my wallet at home, someone stealing my wallet. If I were hurt while on vacation....a quick read of the chip could tell the doctors all my physical ailments instantly, saving valuable time allowing them to treat me sooner. My life may be saved.



come now Deano. No threats? Terrorists don't threaten me because I live in a rural part of the country but there are plenty of threats. Murder, robbery, assault, etc. etc. Not only crimes committed against me but all are also crimes that I could potentially be charged with......a simple scan of my chip or whatever could show I wasn't even at the scene.

If I'm robbed.....I want to be able to go to the police station and tell them exactly what time.....let them pull up my signal then see who's signal was standing 6 inches from me holding a gun at that time.

but unnecsary dont you think?

i dont think you understand the real reason for the microchip agenda. tagging is one reason for the chip but the other reason is the signals coming from the computer to the chip in your body.

there is absolutely no need for the microchip. the world is ful of hyped up monsters and so called terrorists, for the sole reason of scaring you. and more fool you for believeing them

there was some military person(cant rememver the name) who said that one day everyone will have chips and we will control there emotions and give them happy thoughts if they decide to do bad.

.......................................

Tell me true, noble citizen. What ARE you going to do when they come for you?

When the judges pronounce you a terrorist for participating in a peace demonstration and revoke your citizenship, what will you do? If you're a good boy, they may put you on probation for life and let you work in a McDonald's, or maybe Wal-Mart.

When the police decide to search your house because you contributed to a Muslim charity, and you decide to pull out your contraband AK-47 that you bought in a gun show in Texas, are you going to duke it out with them? Like Bill Cooper? Hell, they'll just fentanyl the whole neighborhood. What will your thought be with that last choking breath of yours? That you live in the best country in the world?

What will you do if they put you in a camp where nobody comes out? Petition your Congressperson? My Congressperson is Katherine Harris, as perfidious a felon as exists in any penal system. Don't count on me taking this route.

So what that you know you can't get an iota of truth from your TV or your local newspaper. So what that you know the vote was shamelessly stolen in Ohio, guaranteeing the ratcheting up of endless war. So what that you know we are being poisoned by chemtrails, insufficiently tested pharmaceuticals, and radioactivity spawned by America's own devil weapons.

The question on the table is ... what will you do when they come for you?

For me there is only one logical answer.

Shut down the government NOW, before we no longer have a chance to do it all.

But it won't happen. I received an e-mail from my friend Blaga in Bulgaria today, mired in her New World Order imposed poverty (she calls it USraeli occupation) and pining for happier days under predictable and relatively benevolent (in her estimation) Communist leadership.

She included snips of Milton Mayer's famous anti-Nazi polemic, "They Thought They Were Free." Yes, Mayer was a Jew, but I'm thinking he had no inkling of the Nazi-like menace Jewish Israel and the Zionist U.S. would become today. At least, you can't hear it in his prosaic lament, chillingly appropriate for the situation in America today.

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.

(snip)

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow.

(snip)

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and the smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked ....

(snip)

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy .... The world you live in - your nation, your people - is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring .... But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves .... Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

(snip)

"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.

(snip)

"What then? You must then shoot yourself. A few did. Or "adjust" your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. I said nothing. I thought of nothing to say.

(snip)

And so away went your freedom ....

(snip)

.... and one gray day, your life ....

Originally posted by Evil Dead
-Snip-




Evil Dead, since your content with all the governments criminal policies, then there is really no point of continuing this debate. I do not pretend to know what our founding father were like, but if they wanted a government that's slipping into an oligarchy they would have not created the Bill of Rights. This goes against everthing America stands for, Yet, I suppose I'm crazy for wanting the Government to follow the constituion of the United States.

Originally posted by Wisienki

ID makes it all easier.

Easier=/=Better

What's even worst is that it will most likely be illegal to refuse said Id.

isnt the bill of rights just a goddamn piece of paper according to george bush?

Originally posted by Wisienki
Why not?

Imagine yourself in situation when a person doesn`t have passport, driving license or health insurance - does this person exist? How can this person take a credit for example?

ID makes it all easier.

gal if you dont start taking a stand against the national ID act then you will next be on your way to getting the the microchip inserted in your head.Like winter said earlier,thats all part of their plan.This is just their first step in conditioning us into that.to get us ready for all that.The elite government here in the united states killed kennedy because he was doing too many good things for the country and actually cared about the people instead of doing what was good for big businesses and big corporations like they wanted him to,that was the worst tragedy around the world until 9-11 happened which the american government was ALSO behind.these are the SAME people that want you to have ID card.these evil people do.that should be enough of a clue to you that its bad.Hre,go to this site and educated yourself on all this.you'll learn something there.www.infowars.com

Originally posted by Deano
isnt the bill of rights just a goddamn piece of paper according to george bush?

Yep, and the funny part is were the crazy one's for thinking that's wrong.

The more i read the more sinister this becomes. control is what it's all about. of course if you don't want the chip embedded in your body i'm sure for a price there will be those who can remove it for you. but then you could't access anything that was linked to the chip. oh george orwell would be rolling in his grave. divide and conquer by instilling fear (of terror) into your population .pass laws that "protect" and voila we have achieved what the nazi's wanted, total control of everything. cameras with speakers to issue commands ? ican see a lot of deaf people getting into trouble for no good reason.

People have said before that they could see the merits, but all I see are the danger signals, and when you take this to these extremes everything our forfathers fought and died for is lost.

They have used 9/11 to gain everthing they wanted in this area , and have fed us all on a diet of b/s ever since. what is the final agenda once total control in the"free world " has been achieved.? a modern form of slavery from birth to death in the service of the state . will they sort out the weaker members of our society for "special" treatment? You bet they will. It will be a case of if you can't be productive you are of little use except for spare parts.forced "euthenasia" or abortion will become the norm to purify the gene pool and with all our rights now taken away we will have little chance of challenging anything.

This is frightening stuff indeed (for those of us who attempt to be free)
in my country the powers that be already have more than enough information on each of us, so anything on top is just tightening the reigns and rubbing our noses in it.an orderly society is one thing, an opressed one is another.

Illegal aliens is only a cover story for the national ID card. First the card and then the chip. Once we have the chip implanted in us we will be slaves of the NWO. They will be able to track our every move using satellites. This is how cattle is controlled. The NWO works in this way, in installments. Once we swallow the card, they will start planting stories in the news about how inefficient it is and how much better the chip would be. These stories prepare us for what is coming so that when it really comes it isn't that shocking any more. This way we don't see what the real plan is.

The dictator is in power and is actually a cabal the goes by many names, chief among them being the Council on Foreign Relations. People are correct in saying that not all members of Congress are in on this but enough on them are that they can skew the direction that the country is headed in. Whether they believe that the National ID Card is to control illegal immigrants or has a more darker motion, the result will be the same. It will erode our liberties.

wow.......this conspiracy stuff is like Dungeons and Dragons for people who don't like elves and wizards.

rofl it would erode your liberties. Crazy delusional people scare me.


STOP LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD

you'd better get used to it in this forum..............crazy, delusional people afraid big bad boogeymen/lizard people are trying to enslave them are running rampant here.

the trouble is with people who like to think they know it all. who think they have the answers because they have been brainwashed since birth hahahahahahaha.

wake up.

oh and evil dead i thought you said you believed in aliens? the lizards are cosidered ET in origin. you give off mixed signals.

you cant make fun of other people when your beliefs are no better

Originally posted by Deano
the trouble is with people who like to think they know it all. who think they have the answers because they have been brainwashed since birth hahahahahahaha.

wake up.

oh and evil dead i thought you said you believed in aliens? the lizards are cosidered ET in origin. you give off mixed signals.

you cant make fun of other people when your beliefs are no better

Well Deano, you yourself are guilty of arrogance. Actually, you are quite arrogant. For example: "wake up." That right there gives the sense that you feel you are better than other people... more enlightened, if you will.

And Give me a break, Lizard people are much different than aliens. I myself believe that life exists somewhere else in the galaxy, but I do not believe in these Lizard people that supposedly run our government.

if you think that about me then fine. your opinion

and why should i give you a break? why do you believe that the story about the 'lizards controlling the government' is the only theory out there?

LIZARD PEOPLE ARE ALIENS. thats the theory

there are other theorys aswell. that these aliens just appear to look reptillian looking and that they have visited earth in the past.

if you choose not to believe it then fine. you obviosuly have all the answers.

we are dust in the wind. a speck. we no NOTHING. mkay? absolutly nothing. anything is possible. keep that in mind at all times ok thank you

bwhaha. You are indeed a funny man. So if a person doesn't beleive in all your nutjob conpiracy theories they are closed minded and brainwashed by the government. Deano you are the one who has been brainwashed in to beleiving this nonsense. You are so far gone in to these things you dont even consider the fact you could be completley wrong and crazy. You are the one who thinks he knows everything there is to know, you are the one who thinks he is open minded and a free thinker because you know of and have done 'research' regarding the iluminati and shape shifting lizard people who live in a different dimension. Blind faith is never a good thing, open your eyes deano.

Well said Winter.

The Chip there putting in us is not RFID, it's a biochip which is more advance. Unlike RFID, it will be tracked by a database called GIG (Global Information Grid) and not the current database Digital Angel.

Originally posted by Magee
bwhaha. You are indeed a funny man. So if a person doesn't beleive in all your nutjob conpiracy theories they are closed minded and brainwashed by the government. Deano you are the one who has been brainwashed in to beleiving this nonsense. You are so far gone in to these things you dont even consider the fact you could be completley wrong and crazy. You are the one who thinks he knows everything there is to know, you are the one who thinks he is open minded and a free thinker because you know of and have done 'research' regarding the iluminati and shape shifting lizard people who live in a different dimension. Blind faith is never a good thing, open your eyes deano.

they are not nutjob though are they? no. see i answered for you. you are an insane person living in an insane society. accept it.

i dont think i know everything. its what i believe to be right. im not always right but its what i believe to be right.

my eyes are opened. thats a good thing. if you dont believe in aliens or the nwo then FINE. you know what i have a problem with? you and everyone elses constant barrage of abuse and ridicule. if you cant discuss in a nice manner and respect everyones right to whatthey believe in, then dont post.

think you can handle that? it might make this place more peaceful.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Strange, the Bill was passed on 2005.



Gives too much power to the Federal Government, Infringes on privacy, Infringes on the Tenth Amendment and is a gateway to many un-constitional policy's to come.

Nice use of the Slippery Slope Logical Fallacy there, guy.

It's just a card, we're not losing any privacy.

Unless....Oh god....unless there is a tiny camera on the card that spies on us...

OH GOD THE LIZARDS!

then accept your card like the good law abiding citizen you are.

http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/columns/3520969.html


"I have been convinced that we, as an order, have come under the power of some very evil occult order, profoundly versed in Science, both occult and otherwise, though not infallible, their methods being black magic, that is to say, electromagnetic power, hypnotism, and powerful suggestion. We are convinced that the order is being controled by some Sun Order, after the nature of the Illuminati, if not by that order itself."

-Duke of Brunswick, Grand Master of World FreeMasonry

Originally posted by BackFire
Nice use of the Slippery Slope Logical Fallacy there, guy.

It's just a card, we're not losing any privacy.

Unless....Oh god....unless there is a tiny camera on the card that spies on us...

OH GOD THE LIZARDS!
The card has an RFID chip used to track us, and nice nitpick there.

You're making a stupid and flawed point -- Claiming that getting an ID card is going to inherently lead to an all controlling government.

It's not nitpicking to point out the flaw in your logic.

Originally posted by BackFire
You're making a stupid and flawed point -- Claiming that getting an ID card is going to inherently lead to an all controlling government.

It's not nitpicking to point out the flaw in your logic.

It's nitpicking when you fail to back up your claim, why is it flawed because you do not like it? First you claim I'm flawed about the claim it invades privacy, after I inform you that it does with RFID chips you proceed to bounce around to another point. I can easily prove my point, can you do the same or will you bounce around points?

My point that you committed the fallacy of Slipper Slope? That's the point I made. If you know the fallacy you will know that you commited it.

Having some "chip" doesn't inherently mean it's an invasion of privacy, either.

My cellphone has a chip in it, too. Actually, it has many. Uh oh

Originally posted by BackFire
My point that you committed the fallacy of Slipper Slope? That's the point I made. If you know the fallacy you will know that you commited it.

Having some "chip" doesn't inherently mean it's an invasion of privacy, either.

My cellphone has a chip in it, too. Actually, it has many. Uh oh
So, being able to track your positon without your consent isn't an invasion of your privacy?

I love how you picked the weakest point to debat, versus the other three points. First of all the government can track you because the card contains an RFID chip.

You said "First of all" as if you were going to continue and raise other points, you didn't.

And no, I don't care if they can track me. It isn't an invasion of privacy.

Where the heck does anything even confirm that there will be some tracking device on the card? Has the government stated this? Or is it from some college kid's website?

good point Backfire........

my cellphone can be tracked............also the OnStar system in my truck........yet I don't hear any hubbub about the Lizard people working at General Motors and Verizon trying to enslave me.


ps. sorry to inform you Backfire........the kids who have those websites don't go to college. Instead of bettering their life through education, they spend their time in their parents' basement reading conspiracy and sci-fi novels, occasionally stopping to watch X-Files.

Originally posted by BackFire


And no, I don't care if they can track me. It isn't an invasion of privacy.

I'm curious what you consider invasion of privacy when the government will track you and make a huge databsae that will store information on your actions. I already posted the link about a database used by the NSA to monitor phone calls.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm


Originally posted by BackFire

Where the heck does anything even confirm that there will be some tracking device on the card? Has the government stated this? Or is it from some college kid's website?

Yeah, some college kids website.

http://news.com.com/National+ID+cards+on+the+way/2100-1028_3-5573414.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,121077-page,1/article.html

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2004/11/65856
Why don't you try to be informed.
Originally posted by Evil Dead


my cellphone can be tracked............also the OnStar system in my truck........yet I don't hear any hubbub about the Lizard people working at General Motors and Verizon trying to enslave me.


And, you are aware that Big Business can give your private information to the federal government without your consent.

But, Hey you support Globalization.

At large, the American people are still unaware of the issuance of the Real ID card forthcoming in May of 2008. This new national/international ID card, and its interactivity with national/international databases, can access our medical, financial, driving, Social Security, license(s), firearms registrations, and political status inside its high tech/little nano brain. In essence, it holds our private lives on a swipe-able card that is then privy to any organization, retailer, or person requesting our identification or our money. In other words, our life histories accessible upon command from one 2X3 inch card.

In short the card contains virtually every piece of private information available about the individual. And, anyone who holds the card has access to our private history. So, how is that not an infingment on privacy?

Will they know that I like massive amounts of porn?

And you ask what I consider an invasion of privacy -- It isn't having a card that says all the shit that can already be found on the web or that the government can already access and know as it is. A tracker (which those websites didn't confirm, by the way, they said it was a possibility) that knows my location, which the government already knows since I live in a house, my name registered to it, doesn't bother me either. Maybe when people start peeking through my window while I'm jerking off I'll start becomming alarmed. As it is, it's just people making a big deal about nothing and jerking off to Orwell.

Originally posted by BackFire
Will they know that I like massive amounts of porn?

Sure, why not considering that there going to ask you for your National ID when you by porn regardless of your age. Then the feds can track what you buy.


Originally posted by BackFire

And you ask what I consider an invasion of privacy -- It isn't having a card that says all the shit that can already be found on the web or that the government can already access and know as it is.


Your purchases can't be found on the internet.

Originally posted by BackFire

A tracker (which those websites didn't confirm, by the way, they said it was a possibility)

I concede that point, but since the ID's aren't out we'll just have to see.
The RFID chips were being issued on passports according to those aricles, and other merchandise according to some other articles.

The Major Wallet Maker Corporations of America will oppose this act.

Think about how much money they're going to lose.

They make millions by selling wallets with lots of slots for credit cards.




Credit cards Corporations want you to have lots of slots in your wallets. This law would only limit to one slot per wallet.

It won't happen. 313

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The Major Wallet Maker Corporations of America will oppose this act.

Think about how much money they're going to lose.

They make millions by selling wallets with lots of slots for credit cards.




Credit cards Corporations want you to have lots of slots in your wallets. This law would only limit to one slot per wallet.

It won't happen. 313

It's already been passed, and will be in place by May of 2008. There is some opposition from 3 states I believe.

Originally posted by Magee
rofl it would erode your liberties. Crazy delusional people scare me.


STOP LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD

Like The Bush family? The Clintons? Donald Rumsfield? Condolloza Rice and other people in high positions of power within the government? good because those people SHOULD scare you.People who think Oswald killed kennedy like many ignorant people I know in real life unfortunately who still believe that,or think 9-11 wasnt an inside job by the united states government are the people you need to be talking to when saying STOP LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD.Those are the ones who are because they are afraid of the truth.sad but true.

Yes clearly you know me so well and you seem to have the answers to everything, does God exit?

Originally posted by Magee
Yes clearly you know me so well and you seem to have the answers to everything, does God exit?
Enough with the Red herrings, it's pathetic. No one ever claimed they now the answers to everything.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Global Information Grid (GIG) is an all-encompassing communications project of the United States Department of Defense. It is defined as the globally interconnected, end-to-end set of information capabilities, associated processes, and personnel for collecting, processing, storing, disseminating, and managing information on demand to warfighters, policymakers, and support personnel. The GIG includes all owned and leased communications and computing systems and services, software (including applications), system data, security services, and other associated services necessary to achieve information superiority for the United States military. It is the physical manifestation of the network-centric warfare doctrine. The GIG was envisioned by the Department of Defense Chief Information Officer on September 22, 1999 and was officially mandated by an overarching directive from the Deputy Secretary of Defense on September 19, 2002. Noteworthy progress has been made since then.

Although the lofty objective of the Global Information Grid has not yet been realized, computer-enabled communication between soldiers and commanders in the battlefield have been successful, most notably during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. This ability is considered an early GIG component.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Information_Grid

The venerable cell phone is a dead giveaway as to your location, with every call you make..even if you are not calling......plus they may be listening to your conversation even if its turned off.

We are being very expertly and very easily into this big brother scenario.
Where are the revolutionaries and the genius misfits that are going to find the ultimate way of turning the spying against the spyers...?

How are we going to defeat such a gigantic octopus now?

The words of good ole 60s mentor Tim Leary come to mind "turn on tune in drop out"

Except the hidaways are fast being filled with the affluent and the successfull.
There is a sort of reverse osmosis of the wealthy from the big cities to more secure rural quarters for safety.....

There used to be places where it was isolated enough to hope for some respite,at least for a little longer from the prying spies of our Goverment and its very long armed laws....

It will take a miracle of a different order to save us from this well greased set of skids we're travelling towards absolute control.....

But it's ok though you know why? Because you can control countries and societies, governments, you can control corporations, family owned businesses, banks, the media, the police, and you can even control individuals. But no amount of greedy people on this entire planet will ever have the ability to control something as basic and fundamental as when the Sun rises and sets or even something as simple and important as the cycles of the Moon. And they will never, EVER be able to control something like that. Because they didn't create it, and they don't own it. And all those ****in power mongers can do is worship such events.

We can screw up all over the Earth, and we can keep screwing up over and over and over, like a damn broken record. The Earth has become a giant sandbox prison for so many encapsulated Souls. It was never meant for that. But many chose the dark path, and they have become like ****in monkeys playing around in their own filth. But you watch what happens when these same control freaks that have their hands all over the Earth, decide to spread their destruction outside of it. You watch what happens when they decide to take their destruction into other parts of our Universe. All of Humanity along with every single dark Soul that resides on our Earth would be brought to our knees by the very same laws that allow us all to exist.

Everything on the Earth except for the energy contained within it is a reflection of Light. EVERYTHING! Nothing else is real! It will all eventually pass away. And I don't know about you guys but I am so sick and tired of trying to cling to reflections of Light. The only thing real is the Light itself. And if a person could touch that Light for even just a second, than they would never want to let go of it. But the sad fact is that so many Souls may never get the chance to touch that Light. Because it is their own choices and actions that keep them from reaching it.

For just one day, take every physical object in your life that you have attatched extreme value to, and take away the value that you have placed on each of them in your mind. Watch how much pressure you will have released for yourselves. Watch how much more peaceful your life will start to become.

good words. it is time to evolve

Beautiful words man.

http://rense.com/1.imagesH/chencard_dees.jpg

i thought your social security was a national ID, whats the point of needing a card

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822&q=michael+tsarion

True security comes from the Creator. Not from man.

Tomorrow is never guaranteed to us. We can die in a variety of ways. Sacrificing our freedoms is not going to save us from that. It's only going to make Life tilt towards being more of a miserable experience than a positive one. And thats not the way it was intended to be. So therefore, in the long run, it won't be. Because even planets have a fate. And fate cannot be altered. Only destiny (different paths that lead to fate) and free will (different choices that lead to fate).

Ultimately, fate is already pre-determined. Our planet, our country, and everything we've known up until this point, is spinning closer and closer towards it's fate.

Power corrupts absolutely, does it not.

When given to those without conscience? Absolutely.

Many of these power mongers and politicians want your freedoms, and in return they offer you a lie.

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

(Matthew 7:6).

Freedom to experience is a "Holy" thing. Do NOT give that to the unworthy for them to restrict and spit upon. And mark my words my friends, when they are done stripping away all your freedoms, and they have nothing else to take away from you...then the only thing for them left to come after.....is YOU. And those you love!

All those things and more. You guys should read the master plan and hear it described in their own words.

R.N. Gardner, "Hard road to world order." Foreign Affairs April 1974

"We reproduce catastrophe because we ourselves are traumatized - Both as a species and individually, beginning at birth. Because we are wounded, we have put up psychic defenses against reality and have become so cut off from direct participation in the multidimensional wilderness in which we are embedded that all we can do is to navigate our way cautiously through a Humanly designed day-to-day substitute world of symbols - a world of dollars, minutes, numbers, images and words that are constantly being manipulated to wring the most possible profit from every conceivable circumstance. The body and Spirit both rebel."

If we do not autonomously cleanse our psyches, and strive to live morally...and if we continue to violate the natural order because of our inner emotional and psychological toxicity, we will allow the ego to manifest surrogate channels to exorcize its repressions and other negative debris.

In short, if we give up the right-rulership of the Self, we inevitably breed "Orwellian" political and religious tyrants to take over the job, and turn us into Simmel's "Smiling Depressives", or worse.

When we are not integrated, strong and healthy psychologically we invariably turn to external representatives to restore a semblance of needed stability: Parents, Politicians, Teachers, Evangelists, Heroes, Authority Figures, Establishment Reps, (Police, Army, Medics), Causes, Ideals...ect.

All manner of horrors have arisen as a result...

When states and people are unhealthy and not sovereign, they give their power away to demagogues and champions who possess the ability to lead them anywhere.

The slave has an ambivalent relationship with the master. He may despise the master but he may also envy him and need his attention and affection.

The slave has an inferiority complex and does not think or act for himself. He prefers that others do his thinking for him. in return for this, he offers service, work, and above all - obedience.

We have internalized our masters, which is a well-known psychological response to trauma. When faced with overwhelming terror, the Human mind splits, with part of itself modeling itself after the oppressor. This is an act of appeasement. "Look, "the mind says in effect, "I am like you, so do not harm me."

ID Cards are a staple in any oppressive regime

The NWO wants us to cut ourselves off from our unconscious minds and thus God within the unconscious--what Jung calls the Self. They promote the psychology of behaviorism which says that man is an animal and that our thoughts have no effect on our behavior.

Most of the prophets had visions and dreams. Some heard voices that no one else heard, which came from the unconscious. Jung found that the cure to all mental diseases involved re-connection with the unconscious mind. The NWO plans to make us all into mentally unstable zombies who listen not to the God within but to their voice as being the voice of God.

And not a single one of them can construct even a Human hair from scratch. Only our Creator is capable of such wonders.

If you want to live in a box, where you can hear the toilet flushing next store, the Controllers have a system in place that can accommodate you. If you want to pay through the nose for a useless car, the Controllers say, "we can accomodate you". If you want to go ahead and get a dead end job in which you are stuck in scale labor for the rest of your life, the Controllers say, "we can accomodate you." If you want to buy into a false lie, and believe a lie after lie after lie in order to cover up the other lies, the Controllers say, "we absolutely can accomodate you." If you want to live in a political system of tyrants where you can vote for them to go and mass murder, the Controllers say, "we can accomodate you."

But....if you want to live in a World where you are independent and have a healthy system....the Controllers say, "We can't accomodate you." And thats the message.

My God nuclearwinter, you sure have a way of joining threads and posting 40 posts in a row of crap no one reads.

Again, speak for yourself J. No one else wants you to speak for them.

I have no problem with him speaking for me.

Originally posted by J-Beowulf
My God nuclearwinter, you sure have a way of joining threads and posting 40 posts in a row of crap no one reads.

and YOU have a way of ignoring facts that prove your points wrong and dont bother to address points that are brought up to you.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Again, speak for yourself J. No one else wants you to speak for them.

well said.as far as this thread goes,people better get their heads out of their butts about this issue and take a stand against it or you will indeed be a property of the controllers and their plan for a NWO.This is all set to start taking place next may of next year.I have a group of people around me in my state who are willing to take a stand against it.everybody else better start doing the same thing.Its all part of the New world orders plan to have the card designed to be ineffective and thats when they will implant us with chips.how many of you plan on going along with that and being their puppet? thats what you will be if you dont take a stand against this ID card.

Darks, the CityWatcher.com executive, dismissed his critics, noting that he and his employees had volunteered to be chip-injected. Any suggestion that a sinister, Big-Brother-like campaign was afoot, he said, was hogwash.

"You would think that we were going around putting chips in people by force," he told a reporter, "and that's not the case at all."

Yet, within days of the company's announcement, civil libertarians and Christian conservatives joined to excoriate the microchip's implantation in people.

RFID, they warned, would soon enable the government to "frisk" citizens electronically — an invisible, undetectable search performed by readers posted at "hotspots" along roadsides and in pedestrian areas. It might even be used to squeal on employees while they worked; time spent at the water cooler, in the bathroom, in a designated smoking area could one day be broadcast, recorded and compiled in off-limits, company databases.

"Ultimately," says Katherine Albrecht, a privacy advocate who specializes in consumer education and RFID technology, "the fear is that the government or your employer might someday say, 'Take a chip or starve.'"

Some Christian critics saw the implants as the fulfillment of a biblical prophecy that describes an age of evil in which humans are forced to take the "Mark of the Beast" on their bodies, to buy or sell anything.

Gary Wohlscheid, president of These Last Days Ministries, a Roman Catholic group in Lowell, Mich., put together a Web site that linked the implantable microchips to the apocalyptic prophecy in the book of Revelation.

"The Bible tells us that God's wrath will come to those who take the Mark of the Beast," he says. Those who refuse to accept the Satanic chip "will be saved," Wohlscheid offers in a comforting tone.

In post-9/11 America, electronic surveillance comes in myriad forms: in a gas station's video camera; in a cell phone tucked inside a teen's back pocket; in a radio tag attached to a supermarket shopping cart; in a Porsche automobile equipped with a LoJack anti-theft device.

"We're really on the verge of creating a surveillance society in America, where every movement, every action — some would even claim, our very thoughts — will be tracked, monitored, recorded and correlated," says Barry Steinhardt, director of the Technology and Liberty Program at the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington, D.C.
RFID, in Steinhardt's opinion, "could play a pivotal role in creating that surveillance society."

In design, the tag is simple: A medical-grade glass capsule holds a silicon computer chip, a copper antenna and a "capacitor" that transmits data stored on the chip when prompted by an electromagnetic reader.
Implantations are quick, relatively simple procedures. After a local anesthetic is administered, a large-gauge hypodermic needle injects the chip under the skin on the back of the arm, midway between the elbow and the shoulder.

"It feels just like getting a vaccine — a bit of pressure, no specific pain," says John Halamka, an emergency physician at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

He got chipped two years ago, "so that if I was ever in an accident, and arrived unconscious or incoherent at an emergency ward, doctors could identify me and access my medical history quickly."

(A chipped person's medical profile can be continuously updated, since the information is stored on a database accessed via the Internet.)

Halamka thinks of his microchip as another technology with practical value, like his BlackBerry. But it's also clear, he says, that there are consequences to having an implanted identifier.

"My friends have commented to me that I'm 'marked' for life, that I've lost my anonymity. And to be honest, I think they're right."
Indeed, as microchip proponents and detractors readily agree, Americans' mistrust of microchips and technologies like RFID runs deep. Many wonder:

Do the current chips have global positioning transceivers that would allow the government to pinpoint a person's exact location, 24-7? (No; the technology doesn't yet exist.)

In recent times, there have been rumors on Wall Street, and elsewhere, of the potential uses for RFID in humans: the chipping of U.S. soldiers, of inmates, or of migrant workers, to name a few.

A large-scale chipping plan that was proposed illustrates the stakes, pro and con.

In mid-May, a protest outside the Alzheimer's Community Care Center in West Palm Beach, Fla., drew attention to a two-year study in which 200 Alzheimer's patients, along with their caregivers, were to receive chip implants. Parents, children and elderly people decried the plan, with signs and placards.

"Chipping People Is Wrong" and "People Are Not Pets," the signs read. And: "Stop VeriChip."

Ironically, the media attention sent VeriChip's stock soaring 27 percent in one day.

"VeriChip offers technology that is absolutely bursting with potential," wrote blogger Gary E. Sattler, of the AOL site Bloggingstocks, even as he recognized privacy concerns.

In May, Oklahoma legislators were debating a bill that would have authorized microchip implants in people imprisoned for violent crimes. Many felt it would be a good way to monitor felons once released from prison.

But other lawmakers raised concerns. Rep. John Wright worried, "Apparently, we're going to permanently put the mark on these people."

Rep. Ed Cannaday found the forced microchipping of inmates "invasive ... We are going down that slippery slope."

In the end, lawmakers sent the bill back to committee for more work.

Pretty crazy. Huh?

the people who have logic and common sense that care about their freedoms,will take a stand against the national ID card next may when its forced on us and refuse to take it and go to jail if neccessary because thats where we are going to end up eventually anyways.thats their master plan.the way that you dont end up in jail is you got to get some groups together to take a stand against it.it will be much harder for them to take you off if you are in groups and have coordinated it together with each other on what to do if they do try that.if you try and go at it alone,then they will take you off easily,dont try and do it alone.Like i said,I myself have a group of people in my city who are going to be ready to go take a stand against it next may when the plan takes effect.does anybody else?

Originally posted by Wisienki
In almost entire Europe exists something like National ID Card and it is in my opinion rather strenghtening citizen rights than infringing on them

the posters that have come on like this one and made ignorant comments like this obviously have not watched that video that you show at the beginning ashtar because if they had,they would realise how ignorant comments like this have been throughout this whole thread.I just bow watched it myself and more than ever before,understand how dangerous it is for us to get the national ID card.

yes.....Parker......something tells me you've learned everything you need to know in life from home made videos by conspiracy theorists posted on the interweb. Keep on "learning" buddy.....

Well Parker it's good to see that you will be taking a stand when the time comes. Alot of other people on this board will be doing the same. Alot of people around the World for that matter. Even if some of them haven't completely decided yet. When the time comes, you will even find people taking a stand who you would have never thought they had it in them to do so.

And thats the beauty of it. Because it's easy for the Controllers to try and guess when certain people will react and how, but there will always be those people who take almost a full 360 degree turn and sometimes it's people within their own organizations. So the beauty truly is the element of surprise in that case. And it won't just be 1 or 2 people that will do that, it will probably be thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.

Because the Truth is, you can NOT predict Free Will. This will make it very hard (actually impossible) for the Controllers to determine exactly who will stand against them when they release their shitstorm on us all. And that is how I believe they will fail. Because they underestimate two things. The Power of God. And the Power of God within US.

Oh hey guys... haven't checked in with the psychos for some time now. How are the kids?

Originally posted by Evil Dead
yes.....Parker......something tells me you've learned everything you need to know in life from home made videos by conspiracy theorists posted on the interweb. Keep on "learning" buddy.....

I will thank you.I will listen to what THEY say over someone afraid of the truth about 9-11 and the kenneday assaination like you who ignores facts that prove them to be true, they they were both inside jobs over someone like you anyday of the year by the way. oh and at least I havent allowed the mainstream press to brainwash me with their lies and propaganda about phony news events like YOU have the interweb is FAR more reliable of a source than the mainstream press is.if the interweb was around in 63,they would never have gotten away with fooling and brainwashing the public like they have with you on kennedy,thanks to the web,more and more people are starting to realise there is something wrong with the government all the time.

yeah I am sure your right winter that there will be people on these boards and across the country that will take a stand against it and it will be in the thousands as well.I have already seen on youtube a thread there devoted to it with many people there who are much more educated than they are here,who are saying the same thing,they they are going to take a stand against it so I know your right about that.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
II will thank you.I will listen to what THEY say over someone afraid of the truth about 9-11 and the kenneday assaination like you who ignores facts that prove them to be true, they they were both inside jobs over someone like you anyday of the year by the way. oh and at least I havent allowed the mainstream press to brainwash me with their lies and propaganda about phony news events like YOU have the interweb is FAR more reliable of a source than the mainstream press is.if the interweb was around in 63,they would never have gotten away with fooling and brainwashing the public like they have with you on kennedy,thanks to the web,more and more people are starting to realise there is something wrong with the government all the time.

yeah I am sure your right winter that there will be people on these boards and across the country that will take a stand against it and it will be in the thousands as well.I have already seen on youtube a thread there devoted to it with many people there who are much more educated than they are here,who are saying the same thing,they they are going to take a stand against it so I know your right about that.

Could you please use some grammatical structure in your posts? Half of that doesn't even make sense.

Take for example the italicized portion.

this coming from a guy who lives in a fantasy world about 9-11.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
this coming from a guy who lives in a fantasy world about 9-11.

Oh damn, I didn't see that one coming.

Roll eyes and everything!

so is this a definite? I was under the assumption that the real ID card was just a senate proposal

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Maybe this will be the signal for so many people here at this site that have been living in denial over issues such as this and 9-11,to pull their heads out of their butts and realise the NWO we have been talking about is indeed here right now and we have now gone down the same path of nazi germany.wonder how many others are gonna still live in denial on this that the NWO is indeed here when they are given that National Id card next year that we have been talking about here in this section for the last few years but it just fell on death ears.

you know what is funny? when bush was elected,he clearly meantioned the word NEW WORLD ORDER,you can hear on his speech via youtube,and yet people had no idea what this was.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
so is this a definite? I was under the assumption that the real ID card was just a senate proposal

of course its definite,but it was postponed.

oh yeah thats right.I heard about that.that they are postponing it to another year because people are up in arms about it so they now realise they have to try and come up with something else to get us to take it.

they problably stard making this a requirement for new borns or even do it secretly so everyone will have it.

yeah more than likely.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
this coming from a guy who lives in a fantasy world about 9-11. Yes because one's opinion about 9/11 changes that person's grammar.

No wonder that wasn't given a real responce.