"Money is the Ruler of all Evil"

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chithappens
Is there a verse in the Bible referring to this?

debbiejo
Well it says "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil", not money it's self.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Tim 6:10

Boris
I like money.

Rogue Jedi
I love money. I wish I had more. this rolls over into greed, which is one of the 7 deadly sins.

Boris
I'm greedy and love it.

Sins are fun.

Rogue Jedi
someone not sinning their whole life? never gonna happen.

debbiejo
Well IMO loving money is never good. Not only can it lead to greed as mentioned above, but many negative actions stem from it like murder, defamation, battery, the list goes on and on. Money doesn't bring people happiness anyway. You can't find happiness from the outside, though putting money in it's right perspective does no harm. Loving and obsessing over it ruins your character and can ruin lives.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Boris
I'm greedy and love it.

Sins are fun.

Greedy people are one of the most vile people, as are the selfish.

Greed is selfish excessive or uncontrolled desire for possessions. Greed makes people ultimately unhappy, friendless, and ruins lives.

Apart from Christianity, thats what Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism will tell you.
Its what Ancient cultures saw as undesirable, because of what kind of people greedy people are.

It is something which is not praised anywhere, and never was.

Your blatant spite for religion is not clever. This proves that you're not thinking objectively.

You are kind of the JesusIsAlive/muslimscholar of Atheism.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Greedy people are one of the most vile people, as are the selfish.

Greed is selfish excessive or uncontrolled desire for possessions. Greed makes people ultimately unhappy, friendless, and ruins lives.

Apart from Christianity, thats what Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism will tell you.
Its what Ancient cultures saw as undesirable, because of what kind of people greedy people are.

It is something which is not praised anywhere, and never was.

Your blatant spite for religion is not clever. This proves that you're not thinking objectively.

You are kind of the JesusIsAlive/muslimscholar of Atheism.

Not really.

And Greedy people have always been put in a bad light, but when you look at it they have done some of the best things for us ever. The way we can live now is because of greedy capitalist people, even if you don't like to admit it.

Greed when applied with reason is not evil. What is evil are the greedy people that claim that it is evil so they can use it without having to do anything themselves.

lil bitchiness
No, ambition and disire when applied with reason is not ''evil''.

People who were ambitious have done so much for us.

Greed by definition is application of want and desire in excessive and uncontrollable manner.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
No, ambition and disire when applied with reason is not ''evil''.

People who were ambitious have done so much for us.

Greed by definition is application of want and desire in excessive and uncontrollable manner.

And you don't think that greed was in many cases the reason why they were ambitious?

Greed is a very human desire. And just because it might be excessive, doesn't mean it is uncontrollable, now does it?

It depends how you see greed. If you only see it as wanting something at any cost it can be harmful (doesn't need to be), but if you also see a strong desire for something as greed then it is actually rather healthy.

lil bitchiness
Wikipedia explanation -




some of other definitions, from a dictionary -

greed, noun.

- Excessive desire for more than one needs or deserves:
- Excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions.
- An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth


.....


Also, please quote me one person who has done wonders to society, who is described his success due to greed.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Wikipedia explanation -




some of other definitions, from a dictionary -

greed, noun.

- Excessive desire for more than one needs or deserves:
- Excessive or rapacious desire, esp. for wealth or possessions.
- An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth


.....


Also, please quote me one person who has done wonders to society, who is described his success due to greed.

Ayn Rand


Of course that is an unfair question, since the word greed is stigmatized by people like you. No one would claim to be greedy, but of course many people are greedy.

I mean, do you think Henry Ford, Sam Walton, John Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, John Morgan ... did what they did for giggles? Not really, they wanted money and as much of it as possible.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Bardock42
Ayn Rand


Of course that is an unfair question, since the word greed is stigmatized by people like you. No one would claim to be greedy, but of course many people are greedy.

I mean, do you think Henry Ford, Sam Walton, John Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, John Morgan ... did what they did for giggles? Not really, they wanted money and as much of it as possible.

People like me?

I wasn't aware I made up the dictionary entry, nor the wikipedia explanation. I am simply quoting.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/greed

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
People like me?

I wasn't aware I made up the dictionary entry, nor the wikipedia explanation. I am simply quoting.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/greed

No, I am saying it is stigmatized. I read the dictionary entries as well. But they are not as negative as you make them out to be. They state that it is an excessive desire for material possession.

The uncontrollable none of them states.

So, what about the guys I named? All just in it for the good of humankind?

lil bitchiness
Apperantly there are different kinds of Greed too -

Greed is the acquisition of a desirable good by one person or a group beyond need, resulting in unequal distribution to the point others are deprived.
Competitive greed is the same type of acquisition deliberately to create that inequality.
Punitive greed is the same type of acquisition deliberately to leave the deprived suffering, powerless or disabled.

from www.g-r-e-e-d.com

(although this seems strictly in economic terms, which leaves out pesonal greeds, but ah well)

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Bardock42
No, I am saying it is stigmatized. I read the dictionary entries as well. But they are not as negative as you make them out to be. They state that it is an excessive desire for material possession.

The uncontrollable none of them states.

So, what about the guys I named? All just in it for the good of humankind?

That is simply YOUR attribution to them. Nothing more.

I am asking to show me (anyone who did any good in society including people you mentioned) they describing their success due to greed.

In fact, I would like to see anyone describing their success due to greed, or even speaking about greed in a favorable manner.
(The Wall Street springs to mind)

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
That is simply YOUR attribution to them. Nothing more.

I am asking to show me (anyone who did any good in society including people you mentioned) they describing their success due to greed.

In fact, I would like to see anyone describing their success due to greed, or even speaking about greed in a favorable manner.
(The Wall Street springs to mind)

How does it matter what they describe it as?

You are trying to create a scenario that proves nothing and it impossible to achieve? Why? It has nothing to do with the discussion.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Bardock42
How does it matter what they describe it as?

You are trying to create a scenario that proves nothing and it impossible to achieve? Why? It has nothing to do with the discussion.

You claimed to me, in your first post addressed to me, that greedy people have done so much for us, and that people like me are making greedy people look bad.

I have shown you all the definition by different people, and websites, including dictionary which proves that greed is undesirable.

The word and its definitions are the ones which project something negative. Greed by deffinition is something bad, undesirable for humans.

You challenged that, but have provided me with nothing other than your own opinion to support that.

You challenged my reply, to begin with, so you should present something on which your challenge was based, assuming you knew the accepted definition and idea of greed was bad, beyond the pages of Bible and years before it.

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You claimed to me, in your first post addressed to me, that greedy people have done so much for us, and that people like me are making greedy people look bad.

I have shown you all the definition by different people, and websites, including dictionary which proves that greed is undesirable.

The word and its definitions are the ones which project something negative. Greed by deffinition is something bad, undesirable for humans.

You challenged that, but have provided me with nothing other than your own opinion to support that.

You challenged my reply, to begin with, so you should present something on which your challenge was based, assuming you knew the accepted definition and idea of greed was bad, beyond the pages of Bible and years before it.

Yes.

No, it doesn't.

No, not really. Where in "greed (grēd) Pronunciation Key
n. An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth:" is it implied that that is negative?

Well, what could I provide you with? It is clear that many people wanted more that they had or needed over the years and created things that are now to our favour. Whether someone admitted that they did it out of greed is hardly important, because, as you said, greed had be seen as very negative over the years....

You didn't provide any proof that greed is entirely bad. You just stated that because it is the general opinion. Tell me, what were the reasons the people I stated aspired more wealth? Was it not greed? How can I prove to you that it was greed?

lil bitchiness
Bardock, the notion of the word ''greed'' is bad, evil, vile. It is the accepted notion across cultures, countries and ages. It has been so for thousands upon thousands of years.

Scientists, thinkers, academics, poets, leaders and ordinary people have ALL spoken of greed as bad.

You cannot find any such person talking abut greed as good. THAT is my proof.
My proof is that you cannot support your claim, by anyone's words (apart from an investment banker who was jailed because of his greed - ironically)

Bardock42

inimalist
I know at least in the case of Ayn Rand, there is a distinction between greed and selfishness (or what she calls rational self-interest).

I agree that this selfishness is massively beneficial to humans in general, although greed is very detrimental. I would say true greed only exists in sociopathic or heavily indoctrinated people, as our rational self interest, imho, genetically predisposed. I don't know, maybe when you get to the point where the emotional impact your actions have on others are not a deterrent to harming them, you have moved from selfishness to greed?

Bardock42
Originally posted by inimalist
I know at least in the case of Ayn Rand, there is a distinction between greed and selfishness (or what she calls rational self-interest).

I agree that this selfishness is massively beneficial to humans in general, although greed is very detrimental. I would say true greed only exists in sociopathic or heavily indoctrinated people, as our rational self interest, imho, genetically predisposed. I don't know, maybe when you get to the point where the emotional impact your actions have on others are not a deterrent to harming them, you have moved from selfishness to greed? Well, if we agree on that definition I agree. I just don't think that that is the common definition.

inimalist
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, if we agree on that definition I agree. I just don't think that that is the common definition.

indeed

greed seems to be more associated with accumulation of wealth in society.

I'd call it envy, but I hate them greedy bastards too

lil bitchiness
You didn't read your own quote-

Neal Boortz spoke of use of word greed in opposition to capitalist tendencies by liberals, NOT, greed as a good thing.

If you actually read it, it talks about usage of the word Greed to degrade people with skills who have aquiered money. If it was a good thing, it wouldn't be degrading.

Scottish philosopher is one which endorses greed. Fair enough.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by inimalist
I know at least in the case of Ayn Rand, there is a distinction between greed and selfishness (or what she calls rational self-interest).

I agree that this selfishness is massively beneficial to humans in general, although greed is very detrimental. I would say true greed only exists in sociopathic or heavily indoctrinated people, as our rational self interest, imho, genetically predisposed. I don't know, maybe when you get to the point where the emotional impact your actions have on others are not a deterrent to harming them, you have moved from selfishness to greed?

Which was spoken of in my definition of wikipedia - the want for wealth is not classed as greed-



Calling yourself greedy, implies that - as Boris has done in his post. Not because he understood the notion of ''greed'' but because of spite towards Bible.

Furthermore, people long before Bible condemned greed as something undesiarable.

debbiejo
Bardock and Lil B, you should get married. Then we can talk about you in the "Relationship" thread... big grin

Bardock42
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Which was spoken of in my definition of wikipedia - the want for wealth is not classed as greed-



Calling yourself greedy, implies that - as Boris has done in his post. Not because he understood the notion of ''greed'' but because of spite towards Bible.

Furthermore, people long before Bible condemned greed as something undesiarable.

Well, okay, in that case I admit I have been to fast with judging you. I assumed you were against selfishness on a whole. But you have a more radical definition of greed. Sorry.

Rogue Jedi
if greed means a one way ticket to hell, i imagine that most of the worlds population will be BBQing for all eternity. snausages, anyone?

ADarksideJedi
It depends.If all you think is money and that it is the most imporatnt thing in your life then there is a promblem.That is when it is evil.But we are talking about some piece of paper(that is money)
So it is not the money it is the person.jm

Rogue Jedi
we all want more money. we all strive for the BBD. by this, we are all greedy.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
we all want more money. we all strive for the BBD. by this, we are all greedy.

Not everyone. Plenty of people have no desire for money. What people do tend to want his possessions.

Rogue Jedi
and how do you attain said possessions?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and how do you attain said possessions?

Theft. Gifts. Exchange for work.

You live in a culture where the only way to get things is by purchasing them. That isn't true everywhere.

Some cultures don't even have currency.

Rogue Jedi
no currency? name a few, please.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
no currency? name a few, please.

Many aboriginal societys don't use currency. The Maya orginal operated on a system of work in direct exchange for what you wanted. Tribal groups generally work in a communal fashion and have no need of currency except in the loose form of useful objects.

Rogue Jedi
interesting.....

inimalist
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
we all want more money. we all strive for the BBD. by this, we are all greedy.

many people forgo money and fame for personal ambition

see: doctors, teachers, fire fighters. Hell, most chemists working outside of the private sector do so at their own financial peril.

debbiejo
People should not love things. Money is a thing.

Boris
I love money, it brings me happyness.

Bardock42
It should be "happiness", there's an "i" in "happiness"

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, okay, in that case I admit I have been to fast with judging you. I assumed you were against selfishness on a whole. But you have a more radical definition of greed. Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry for. But if we're all apologizing, here's mine too. I am sorry too.

Now lets get married.

BackFire
Originally posted by Bardock42
It should be "happiness", there's an "i" in "happiness"

But there's no 'I' in team.

Bardock42
Originally posted by BackFire
But there's no 'I' in team.

There is also no "i" in "piss off"


E-except for that one "i" after the "p"Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Nothing to be sorry for. But if we're all apologizing, here's mine too. I am sorry too.

Now lets get married.

B-but you are hot...why would you marry me?

BackFire
Originally posted by Bardock42
There is also no "i" in "piss off"


E-except for that one "i" after the "p"

There's also an I in You. As in, I'm in you.

Bardock42
Originally posted by BackFire
There's also an I in You. As in, I'm in you.

But that makes no sense.



Oh, you are talking about butt sex, I get it.

Devil King
Isn't it supposed to be "Money is the root of all evil"?

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by inimalist
many people forgo money and fame for personal ambition

see: doctors, teachers, fire fighters. Hell, most chemists working outside of the private sector do so at their own financial peril. sure. i have never seen a doctor making boocoo $$$. roll eyes (sarcastic)...edit: i missed the private sector part. sowwy.

Bardock42
Originally posted by debbiejo
Bardock and Lil B, you should get married. Then we can talk about you in the "Relationship" thread... big grin We are both previously engaged I believe.

Rogue Jedi
lurve?

chithappens
Originally posted by Devil King
Isn't it supposed to be "Money is the root of all evil"?

I'm looking for bible quotes but I'm not totally sure @ all where to look...

Seems is kinda got off topic rolling on floor laughing

Rogue Jedi
I'd like to win the lottery. Am I going to hell for this?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Devil King
Isn't it supposed to be "Money is the root of all evil"?

No it's supposed to be "Love of money is the root of all evil."

Boris
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'd like to win the lottery. Am I going to hell for this?

Yes.

debbiejo
Originally posted by chithappens
I'm looking for bible quotes but I'm not totally sure @ all where to look...

Seems is kinda got off topic rolling on floor laughing The bible verse was already quoted.

chithappens
Originally posted by debbiejo
The bible verse was already quoted.

You said "the." I was thinking maybe there were "some."

Bicnarok
http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/6-10.htm

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Bicnarok
http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/6-10.htm

For the love . . . is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

oh

Regret
Originally posted by BackFire
But there's no 'I' in team. But there is a 'me' if you play around with it a little, and isn't that what you do with a team, play around with it a little wink

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