According to your religion, is the Universe natural or supernatural, or both?

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Shakyamunison
According to your religion, is the Universe natural or supernatural, or both?

I see the universe as natural. I even believe that God is natural.

What do you believe?

inimalist
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I even believe that God is natural.

weeeeeeeeeeeird

care to elaborate?

(I mean the good kind of weird)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
weeeeeeeeeeeird

care to elaborate?

(I mean the good kind of weird)

I believe that the universe, all together, is a living being. We are part of this living being, and cannot be separate.

How can I elaborate more?

Ytse
Neither.

God created everything in my worldview so it certain isn't natural.

And it isn't supernatural because I reject dualistic metaphysics.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
According to your religion, is the Universe natural or supernatural, or both?

I see the universe as natural. I even believe that God is natural.

What do you believe? But then God wouldn't be God. You's just call something God.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
But then God wouldn't be God. You's just call something God.

That is correct. There would be no need to worship God. Living a good life would be all that is required.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is correct. There would be no need to worship God. Living a good life would be all that is required.

Not even that really, right?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
Not even that really, right?

I guess you could live a miserable life, if you like. The universe wouldn't even notice.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I guess you could live a miserable life, if you like. The universe wouldn't even notice.

Yeah.

Where is your spirituality? I mean we know you are an atheist. But you are somehow spiritual, right?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah.

Where is your spirituality? I mean we know you are an atheist. But you are somehow spiritual, right?

I am not an atheist. I believe in the Mystic Law, Nam Myoho Renge Kyo (God).

My spirituality is found in my Buddhist practice.

Goddess Kali
Buddhism rocks my socks

Impediment
Bill Hicks said it best:

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather...."

laughing out loud

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am not an atheist. I believe in the Mystic Law, Nam Myoho Renge Kyo (God).

My spirituality is found in my Buddhist practice.

Well, actually you just call it god. That's as if I call the laws of nature God, isn't it?

Goddess Kali
He calls it God, because he feels that is the best way Theists would understand what he is talking about

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, actually you just call it god. That's as if I call the laws of nature God, isn't it?

Yes, but the definition of atheist is: somebody who does not believe in God or deities. I don't fit that definition, or do I?

inimalist
hmmmm

weird and interesting

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
He calls it God, because he feels that is the best way Theists would understand what he is talking about

It is also the best way for atheist to understand what I am talking about.

Tangible God
My religion dictates that the Universe just is, Life just is, and death is the time when Life ceases to exist. There's no higher power, there's no great Being, be it God or the Universe itself. None of this is an accident, nor is it on purposes. There's no plan, no great mystery... there's just Something in order to counter the paradox of Nothing.

Symmetric Chaos
By my understanding of the word natural the universe must be natural.

debbiejo
Both.

ADarksideJedi
I believe in God so I would say natural.jm

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, but the definition of atheist is: somebody who does not believe in God or deities. I don't fit that definition, or do I? Y-yes you do. Atheist.

Mindship
Both, though personally I'm not keen on the word, "supernatural." "Transcendent" would be better, IMO (it has less hocus-pocus witch/ghost/etc connotation).

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Mindship
Both, though personally I'm not keen on the word, "supernatural." "Transcendent" would be better, IMO (it has less hocus-pocus witch/ghost/etc connotation).

Depends what you're transending . . .

Mindship
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Depends what you're transending . . . The physical-sensory and mental-symbolic levels.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
Y-yes you do. Atheist.

laughing I don't think so.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, but the definition of atheist is: somebody who does not believe in God or deities. I don't fit that definition, or do I?

No you dont. Therefore you are not an atheist.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
laughing I don't think so.

It's okay. I like you anyways. Atheist. hug

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Bardock42
It's okay. I like you anyways. Atheist. hug

laughing You are a brat... laughing

debbiejo
Originally posted by Mindship
The physical-sensory and mental-symbolic levels. Ooooo symbols...... cool big grin

Bardock, why are you dancing like that again??? LOL

leonheartmm
i think the universe, the practical one, has an inbuilt tendency to sometimes act chaotically, unpredictabily and break a number of known rules and concepts that it adheres to for the most part. i believe that physical laws are simply our attempt to, most conveniently define, the phenomenon that the universe itself expresses, they are not existing outside the universe and giving it order, but are the best fit contexts given to what is shown to us by the universe. the irregularity i talked about before gives rise to mystical and, IN PART , illogical phenomenons. i believe that even though our body and mind and neural impulses are are made up of physical, or PERCIEVEABLY physical things, and they DO directly affect our CONCIOUNCE/CONCIOUSNESS, they are NOT our conciousness, our SOUL{if thas what people wanna call it} ARISES, as a result of these physical processes but is different from them{the same way the equations of einstien are made up of ink particles, on paper and were made due to the force of a complex physical structure called the finger, yet the ink, paper, and force of hand is NOT the equation istself but the equation is concept which is only seen when u look at the particles of ink, etc in a certain PERSPECTIVE, } from the mathematical PERSPECTIVE, the order, concept of soul which is given rise to as a direct result of the physical body, even though its a completely virtual concept, starts to interact with itself without any outside physical occurance, unpredictably and becomes self contained to a great extent and starts to grow, affected, but not created by a direct result of the physical outside particles etc. from the perspective of the universes tendency at times to be ILLOGICAL, this virtual construct fits rather comfortably inside the seeming unpredictable chaos and can be given a number of traditional/non traditional spiritual reasons for existance{eg, primordial WILL shaped itself into a conciounce, the souls has always existed as a concept and concepts cant be destroyed etc etc} . on a larger scale all things percieved, thought, etc, are really completely subject, strictly speaking and the WORLD {not only as one sees it, but since we ARE individuals, as a whole too} is merely a creation of ur own self which might or might not exist, logical idead might be illogical, existance, might not EXIST, and ur conciounce might not even be anyhting at ALL. all things are subjective and u cant be sure of anything, only of what this FEALING, translates and percieves things to be in a potentially infinite number of perspectives.

my perspective tells me, or rather, TOLD me, that concepts dont need, minds, or even existance to "exist"{i dont know of a better word in this sphere of perception}. they are often, if not self contradictory{not in logic but in the context that they THEMSELVES give rise to}, self CONTAINED and complete in THEMSELVES, they dont need cause or sustainance to EXIST, therefore, technically, ALL things exist, all concepts, all scenarios{e.g existance, non existance, presence, absence, love, hate, despair, the fact that according to ur perspective killing innocent is good} exist, only not in our realm of perception or existance. furthermore, since its all perspective, a PERCEPTUALLUY physical thing{if such a thing really exists} can be named a number of different things depending on perspective, with none any more true than the other and there being only truth to it in ur PERSPECTIVE.

3 other things, my SELF reveals to me is, that if one can completely let go of self, u can learn to comprehend and accept practically all concepts there are {given that u are completely unSELFish if u rent, the number is less than infinity and is infinite, depending on ur ego/self} and in that u find, not only enlightenment, but LOVE. the second part is about love, why is it better then hate if all things are existant and subjective, i cant really say, just that, u dont feal hate in acceptance of even sumthing hateful, if ur unselfish, it turns into love, and well, once u can truly comprehend the SELF{which is a combination of, but not limited to the nearly infinite existing concepts, part of it is transendance even from concepts} u are likely to fall and feal harder for it than just a single, complete concept, giving rise to TRUE love{i.e, unelfish, often one way, romantic love between two minds/souls/conciousness}. the third is, there is only ONE thing that "I"{and i cant generalise it to others because they are at any rate products of my perception and not unbiased information} exist in whatever way shape or form, "i" may not have free will, but i have self awareness and a conciounce which exist with certainty only in what i call, NOW, not the past, nor the future, thats probably the only EXISTANCE, of which i can TRUYLY be reasonable sure about.

so yeah, the world is WIERD. and this thread makes me talk wierd, lol.

Goddess Kali
I think the Universe is a wondorful thing that chose to become self aware through the phenomena of life.


We all belong to this universe- our bodies, our dreams, our thoughts, our beleifs, our myths, our actions and emotions are all born of this universe.

An emotion is a result or rather a response to what already exists, so in a way the universe further creates more aspects of itself through us...small aspects, but these aspects matter the way your blood cells or nerve cells matter.

I think our world and universe are so wondrous, and we take what is there for granted. Either that, or we choose to define something we do not understand through our own mythologies (religion), while not seeing what is truly there.

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