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LIGHTSABER SKILL

1- Luke 11
2- Sidious 10
3- Yoda 10
4- Revan 9,7
5- Exar Kun 9,6
6- Ullic Quel-Droma 9,5
7- Bane 9,4
8- Anakin (ROTS) 9 (9,8 enraged and focus, 8,8 unfocus against Obi-Wan)
9- Mace Windu 9 (9,9 with vaadpad against Sidious)
10- Dooku 9
11- Obi-Wan 8,3 (8,7 focus against Anakin)
12- Darth Maul 8.0
13- Darth Vader 7.9
14- Qui-Gon Jinn 7,7
15- Kit Fisto 7,6
16- Plo Koon 7,6
17- Ki-Adi Mundi 7,5
18- Padawan Anakin 7,3
19- Jedi knight Obi-Wan 7,2
20- Padawan Obi-Wan 7 (8 enraged)


FORCE POWERS

1- Luke 11
2- Sidious 10.2
3- Yoda 10.1
5- Exar Kun 9,8
5- Revan 9,8
6- Bane 9,6
7- Ullic Quel-Droma 9,2
8- Darth Vader 9,2
9- Mace Windu 9
10- Dooku 9
11- Anakin (ROTS) 8,7 (9,2 enraged, 8,5 unfocus against Obi-Wan)
12- Obi-Wan 8,2 (8,4 focus against Anakin)
13- Qui-Gon Jinn 7,7
14- Ki-Adi Mundi 7,7
15- Plo Koon 7,6
16- Darth Maul 7.6
17- Kit Fisto 7,4
18- Jedi Knight Obi-Wan 7,2
19- Padawan Anakin 7,0
20- Padawan Obi-Wan 6,6

Ok, i know this is the second time i try something like this but i wanted to ask your opinions about this subject. Basicaly, you will rank force powers and lightsaber skill according to a comparative scale.

Opinions? Go ahead, make your own list.

They are both 9's. And the scale of Gillard's only goes up to 9.

Wrong forum.

Originally posted by kamhal
LIGHTSABER SKILL

1- Luke 11
2- Sidious 10
3- Yoda 10
4- Revan 9,7
5- Exar Kun 9,6
6- Ullic Quel-Droma 9,5
7- Bane 9,4
8- Anakin (ROTS) 9 (9,8 enraged and focus, 8,8 unfocus against Obi-Wan)
9- Mace Windu 9 (9,9 with vaadpad against Sidious)
10- Dooku 9
11- Obi-Wan 8,3 (8,7 focus against Anakin)
12- Darth Maul 8.0
13- Darth Vader 7.9
14- Qui-Gon Jinn 7,7
15- Kit Fisto 7,6
16- Plo Koon 7,6
17- Ki-Adi Mundi 7,5
18- Padawan Anakin 7,3
19- Jedi knight Obi-Wan 7,2
20- Padawan Obi-Wan 7 (8 enraged)


FORCE POWERS

1- Luke 11
2- Sidious 10.2
3- Yoda 10.1
5- Exar Kun 9,8
5- Revan 9,8
6- Bane 9,6
7- Ullic Quel-Droma 9,2
8- Darth Vader 9,2
9- Mace Windu 9
10- Dooku 9
11- Anakin (ROTS) 8,7 (9,2 enraged, 8,5 unfocus against Obi-Wan)
12- Obi-Wan 8,2 (8,4 focus against Anakin)
13- Qui-Gon Jinn 7,7
14- Ki-Adi Mundi 7,7
15- Plo Koon 7,6
16- Darth Maul 7.6
17- Kit Fisto 7,4
18- Jedi Knight Obi-Wan 7,2
19- Padawan Anakin 7,0
20- Padawan Obi-Wan 6,6

Ok, i know this is the second time i try something like this but i wanted to ask your opinions about this subject. Basicaly, you will rank force powers and lightsaber skill according to a comparative scale.

Opinions? Go ahead, make your own list.


Which Luke?

The scale is too small scale and horribly inaccurate.

It would seem like an eight in force could go up against a nine and have a chance to win, or at least be able to have a good fight, but you put Obi as an eight and Dooku as a nine. The characters aren't that close.

The same goes with lightsaber skill, Kit is a 7.6 while Sidious (ROTS?) is a 10. Sidious murdered him in under three seconds, along with two others that are his rough equals, while focusing mainly on Mace.

And vader is above bane or prehaps equals

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Which Luke? ESB luke of course

First, i never used Gillard's scale, i am using a personal scale.

Second, i asked you to try something like this and just comment it's too close or too far, yet you didn't even try to do something like that.

Also,
Well the most funny is that in Gillard's sclae kit fisto would probably be between 7 and 8 and sidious would be a 9, so i gave him an even better advantage.

Also, i would like proofs that bane>vader. Bane, people like it or not, had showed huge force power.

At last, i am obviously putting the characters at full power, so just imagine Luke at his best.

Heck that's a long list.



Anyway, just wondering, I talked to Gideon a while ago, he actually said that a Magnaguard was above the average jedi when it came to fighting. Maybe someone should make a thread or something.

Yeah, I know it's long, I had posted it on my website some time ago and just posted it here, changed a few of the numbers slightly.

And where does it say that a Magnaguard is above strong an avg. Jedi? If you know.

Unfortunatley I don't, it was just Gideon who said it, but that was like 3 months ago or something. But I think it was something Dooku noted about them, or it was his opinion. (Gideon's)

Darthsith, why did you rank RotS Obi-Wan higher than Count Dooku as a duelist? That's absolute bullshit. Dooku is more experienced and much more refined; the only reason that he was unable to tool Obi-Wan's ass is a.) He had to fight off Anakin, too and b.) Obi-Wan's Soresu makes him capable of defending himself from Count Dooku - or just about any duelist - for long periods of time. But offensively? He's screwed. He can't outduel Dooku.

Furthermore, why is AotC Obi-Wan higher than AotC Anakin? Dooku considered Anakin more of a threat than Obi-Wan at that time, too, and Anakin actually made Dooku work for his victory, unlike Obi-Wan.

A magna gayrd is above av average Jedi? Why did like ten of them get pwnt.'ed by one Jedi in the CW, then?

Because Shaak Tii is a council master, not all jedi are the same you know. And pwnt? I saw Shaak Tii getting her ass handed to her, she was lucky they retreated. She downed like what, two of them?

And jedi in the CW are highly overpowered.

Nyax or Luke should be first on the saber list.
Opsy, double post.

Originally posted by Bruce Leeroy
A magna gayrd is above av average Jedi? Why did like ten of them get pwnt.'ed by one Jedi in the CW, then?



Not only that, Why did ROTS Anakin and ROTS Kenobi destroy them so easily and effortlessly?

Because they are some of the best swordsmen in the order, Anakin pretty much ever up to that point. He could destroy an average jedi in saber battle. I mean, if Anakin could take out Count Dooku in some 30 seconds, he can take out an average freakin jedi in 15.



Magnaguards were trained as Grievous body guards, they knew all the saber styles of the jedi, and Count Dooku was VERY impressed by them in combat, in LOE.
I'm not saying they are above the average jedi, and I'm not saying that Gideon is absolutley saying that anymore, I just made a point that they might be.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And that is why your not taken seriously round herr.

Exactly.

While it may be a "long list", it's riddled with nothing but sheer idiocy.

Ok, does everyone need to comment the post? The thread asked for opinions, that's what he gave.

Originally posted by kamikz
Ok, does everyone need to comment the post? The thread asked for opinions, that's what he gave.

And?

You realize, of course, that no one gives a shit what you say, or what the purpose of the thread may be, as comments like that are expected to be made if you post such ridiculous things. So, quit your yapping.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I'm not going to try and do a Force list.

I wouldn't suggest it either, considering your lightsaber list. Oops! I commented.

That's an unusual choice of avatar, Adventy-poo .

Originally posted by Advent
And?

You realize, of course, that no one gives a shit what you say,

I care

Originally posted by kamhal

Also, i would like proofs that bane>vader. Bane, people like it or not, had showed huge force power.

Wrong, vader had done more impressive feats than bane and displayed greater mastery of the force. JJ and styles both have proved vader > bane

What the hell is this? Where are these numbers coming from?

Opinion

Originally posted by Advent
And?

You realize, of course, that no one gives a shit what you say, or what the purpose of the thread may be, as comments like that are expected to be made if you post such ridiculous things. So, quit your yapping.




And I don't really give a shit what YOU say about that either, I just think it's unnecessary when people state the same thing over and over. It so helps when people state the same opinion over and over again with nothing new to say, it was apparent that he said it only because you guys said it was bad.

And if you read my post, I asked if everyone really had to, I told nobody to stop, just giving DS a break.

Force Powers:
Legacy of the Force Luke - 11
Palpatine Reborn - 10
Darth Nihilus- 9
Master Yoda - 8.5

Originally posted by kamikz
And I don't really give a shit what YOU say about that either

Feisty for such a loser, aren't we?



I laughed out loud.

And like I already said, it doesn't really matter what you think. Why don't you reprimand the majority of posters, who in a versus thread just say "X FTW!", and then nearly every post after that contains a similar notion? It's the same exact situation.



Relevance? Who cares if he possibly made the remark based on our posts, it's entirely irrelevant.



Why would I waste my time on something as stupid as that?



Where did I say or imply that you told anyone to 'stop'? I stated plain as day that if you post things that are wrong on so many levels, you're expected to get your ass chewed out. So darthsith had it coming, and everyone on the forum has a right to tell him the same thing if they feel that way.

Anyways, that was a waste of time. Have a nice day!

Yeah, that was a waste of time. Seriously, stop bringing up such small insults when they aren't even necessary. Why the hell do you make such a big deal out of it? I asked why people neeeded to state it when it was it was already said by other people (I never said it couldn't be said, I asked why it had to be so many goddamn times, just for the heck of it. The thread isn't about people stating how much they hate "that" post), hence I was trying to give DS a break from all that.
I didn't say people could never, ever, post their opinions on other threads, but when it comes to just bringing down someone when that is not even the point here, I think it's unnecessary.


So there, whatever, end of "discussion".

Anyway, beside those irrelevant posts, when was Lord Nyax featured? Was it by like Jedi Academy or NJO? If it is by NJO, shouldn't he be above Luke in swordsmanship, seeing how even for Luke, Mara and another jedi (don't remember who) it was out of the question to even try to confront him saber wise.

He was featured during the New Jedi Order series of books, so if that's true, then I'd assume yes.

If I remember correctly, Nyax had consumed a Force nexus beneath the Jedi Temple in order to perform such a feat. I don't have my copy of Rebel Stand on hand, however. I'll have to do some research. But I do recall that he had lightsabers on his hands, knees, legs, and likely his penis, too. Which is pretty stupid, but, ah well.

Lol!

http://www.pen-paper.net/artgallery/d/3652-2/Lord_Nyax.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=2447e56c61ee6a97ad2376eeaf6ae3e3

And why is that?


The novel states that Dooku was unable to get past Kenobi's defenses with a saber, which is why he had to use the Force on him. Because of this I put Kenobi above Dooku with blades, though it is possible that Dooku would eventually have gotten past his defenses. Kenobi lasted a hell of a long time against Anakin as well, and Anakin is above Dooku.


Where does it say that Anakin was a bigger threat that Obi-Wan? Kenobi was very tired when he fought Dooku, he had had no food or water, and very little rest for how many days? Plus, Anakin and Kenobi were close with sabers in ROTS so if Anakin was already ahead of him in AOTC then what, did Kenobi increase as much as Anakin did during the Clone Wars?


And what part about it is "idiocy? And Kamikz, I appreciate you sticking up for me, but don't woryy about it, I can just ignore Advent if she gets on my nerves.

Originally posted by darthsith19
And why is that?

If it wasn't obvious already, because you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.



No, it said that Count Dooku didn't realize Obi-Wan's Ataru had been a ploy, hence he didn't notice none of his attacks were successful. It then goes on to note that because both Obi-Wan and Anakin had been restraining themselves, that they could possibly defeat him now since all their cards had been laid out on the table.

Since he didn't want to take any chances, he seperated the duo. If you have proof otherwise, put up or shut up.



You're not looking at why the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader was much longer.

Kenobi knew Anakin like the back of his hand, likewise with Anakin, however, that sheer fact alone would prolong the duel, coupled with Obi-Wan's Soresu, and that he needed to resort to giving ground, and other various tricks (lava skating, platform jumping, etc.).



The AotC novel, which makes it clear that Count Dooku had to work harder to keep Anakin at bay than he had to work for Obi-Wan.



And Anakin wasn't? He, unlike Obi-Wan, was blasted by Force lightning, aside from the fighting he did on Geonosis (in the arena, and the attempted rescue).

Pathetic excuse.



Exar Kun above Anakin Skywalker, Yoda, Mace Windu, and Darth Sidious?

Kol Skywalker above Anakin Skywalker, Yoda, Darth Sidious, Count Dooku, Mace Windu, and General Grievous?

Ulic Qel-Droma above Yoda, Darth Sidious, and Anakin Skywalker?

AotC Obi-Wan Kenobi above AotC Anakin Skywalker?

Obi-Wan Kenobi above Count Dooku?

Tulak Hord above all, save for one?

I can continue if you wish.

The fact of the matter is, none of those can be supported by viable evidence. If they can, prove up.

Edit:

And I've already dismantled the arguments regarding Kun being more skilled than Anakin, and the same with Kol Skywalker.

the novel


DS, Why do rank Tulak Hord,Kyle,Kas'im, and Darth Bane higher than ROTS Anakin and ROTS Mace?, Im just wondering i don't know much about Hord other than Traya thought he was good. And Depa is better than Obsession Asajj??

I believe Kyle may be better than Anakin or Mace.

Anakin knew Obi-Wan just as well as Obi-Wan knew Anakin.

Then how come Anakin and Kenobi were close in ROTS if Anakin was already ahead of Kenobi in AOTC, that would mean that Kenobi progressed as much during the war as Anakin did, which doesn't make sense.

He had a full minute to recover, I doubt the lightning was hurting him much at that point - in ROTJ Luke was zapped for a lot longer and was able to stand up pretty much as soon as the lightning ceased. Hunger and thirst, however, cannot be gotten rid of my resting.

Why not? Only ROTS Sidious, btw, DE Sidious would beat him.

Just by a little, yes.

I don't see why not.

It was stated that compared to him, the great masters since were children playing with toys. As this is all that why know about him, and there's nothing to suggest that this isn't true, why wouldn't he be that high?



He made all the great masters since look like children playing with toys. Kas'im was only stated as possibly being the best saber wielder ever, but nothing he has done makes makes Exar Kun look like a child playing with a toy. I don't see Kyle or Bane making Exar Kun look like a child playing with a toy. Or any of the others. There really isn't anything else about Hord's powers besides that quote, so as it's all we have to go on really and there's nothing to disembark what she said then it goes. And yes, Depa is definately ahead of Obsession Asajj - it was said that of all the Jedi only Mace could take her in a saber duel, and Mace even viewed her as stronger than he was (though this is absolute bullshit, Mace was just being humble) and Yoda could surely take her out as well, but it still puts her up very high.

Where has Kol exhibited any noteworthy skill to make him better than the likes of Yoda, Palpatine, and Mace?

Originally posted by Gideon
Where has Kol exhibited any noteworthy skill to make him better than the likes of Yoda, Palpatine, and Mace?
On Ossus, when he fights dozens of Sith at once and kills seven or more of them, plus Stormtroopers.

Right.

Yoda battled Emperor Palpatine on equal footing, forced Count Dooku to retreat on two occasions , and evaded the attacks of three powerful Jedi while being unarmed.

Emperor Palpatine butchered three of the 'greatest swordsmen' in the Jedi Order's history in seconds, the third of which he killed while simultaneously engaged in combat against Mace Windu , creator of the deadliest lightsaber form.

Mace Windu created the aforementioned deadliest lightsaber form, and was the only person to ever mastered it, defeated 'the most powerful Sith in history' , and forced Dooku to retreat on Boz Pity.

Owning some psuedo-Sith and a few Stormtroopers is cool, but shit compared to these feats. Advent and AC are right. Your lists and assertions are crap.

Yeah, and Kol would beat Sidious and are you saying that Dooku could beat Kol? And Yoda just evaded their atatcks, he didn't actually beat all of them at once.

If we really use that battle as proof then ROTS Sidious is above anybody with a lightsaber except NJO Luke.

I see Kol doing the same.



So what if Anakin wasn't properly honing his emotions and wasn't thinking clearly, yes this did him in in the end but for the rest of the duel it wouldn't have played a factor.


Why would Kenobi knowing Anakin draw the duel out if Anakin knew Kenobi equally as well?

So what, if Anakin wasn't able to control his emotions and Kenobi was then it's a credit to Kenobi's power, and one against Anakin's.

Yes, Anakin did have the upper hand, but not by much, as I've already stated, it was close. And Obi-Wan's use of tricks only adds to his power, if he was smart enough to use tricks and Anakin wasn't.

Why wouldn't Anakin be able to give his full force to his attacks? What the hell are you talking about, Obi-Wan not having to move an inch to be effective? If he didn't move he'd be dead!

Just because Anakin fought better against Dooku doesn't mean that he's stronger.

What logic?

So now ypou're saying that being pushed into a wall does more damage that being electrocuted for over a minute? Right...


Sidious damaged Luke more than Dooku damaged Anakin, Anakin didn't get up because he was to hurt to fight, he wasnted to recover before engaging Dooku.

Are we to assume that he ate of drank anything after his fight with Jango? When he fought Jango, Anakin and Padme were just leaving for Tatioone. They were there for at least an entire day, possibly longer. I suppose it was probably only about 2 days without food or water, assuming he didn't eat or drink after fighting Jango, try going without food or water for 2 days, it will weaken you greatly.

You have this little habit of making assertions without ever supporting them. Welcome to the real world; Kol couldn't beat Yoda simply because you say so. In fact, the entire point of this argument was for you to actually prove up, and yet all you do is keep saying: "Kol could beat Yoda!" like a broken record without ever elaborating upon the proof.



Count "I've-refined-Makashi-for-eight-decades-and-am-considered-the-Temple's-most-learned-student-and-the-greatest-of-the-Lost-Twenty-as-well-as-being-considered-"one of the greatest Jedi Masters in the Order's twenty-five thousand year history"-and-an-"even greater Sith Lord" Dooku? Yes, I think Dooku would beat him. In fact, I think it's a no-brainer.



Advent's right; I definately hear an echo, because that's exactly what I said.



You compose some of the greatest arguments I've ever seen... I'm putting the damn fight into perspective. Sidious butchered three of the Order's finest (in their history) in seconds, the last of which, he did so while being engaged with Mace Windu - the creator of the deadliest lightsaber form in history - and he then proceeded to put him on the defensive.

Oh, and this is when he hadn't touched a lightsaber in a decade.



You see Kol beating Sidious, forcing Dooku to retreat, and creating the deadliest lightsaber form ever? All this by virtue of no proof. Get some damn glasses, if that's what you see.

how would taking more risks be a determinant throughout the entire fight when obiwan was only able to capitalise on one right at the end of the fight?

Originally posted by IOU
how would taking more risks be a determinant throughout the entire fight when obiwan was only able to capitalise on one right at the end of the fight?

He capitalized on more than that actually. Each time he would draw Anakin out, and give ground - basically controlling him like a dog on a leash. I, personally, don't believe that would've happened had he not been set on merely destroying Obi-Wan, without thought of anything else.

Though, that's rather on the lines of speculation, anyways. So, I suppose I should retract just that line (as the rest stands clearly). Also, on a different note, changing your typing style doesn't really prevent anyone from knowing that its you, Nebaris.

Advent is correct; Luke was simply being tortured. Count Dooku nailed a charging Anakin with a blast of lightning head on, and then flung him across the hangar into a wall. The combined impacts was obviously enough to subdue Anakin for a while, not calculating the time he likely spent simply regaining his wits.

I will also say, however, that Luke's recovery was not complete or absolute. Truce At Bakura dictates that Luke required emergancy care from the Alliance's medical droids and that his bones and skeletal structure went through calcification.

im not asking how his mindset would be a determinant throughout the entire fight, but specifically risk taking, as im really not seeing how it would

Sock.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Anakin's skill doesn't improve by simply turning to the Dark Side. That's dumb logic. OT Vader should be higher.
It wasn't my idea to make him go up, Nick Gillard says turning to the dark side makes Anakin's saber skills go up from level 8 to level 9.

Nick Gillard's a valid source, how? And since when could skill really be quantified by a number?

Originally posted by NateGreySummers
Nick Gillard's a valid source, how? And since when could skill really be quantified by a number?
He workd for Lucas, he's the guy who created this number system with Lucas. He's the one who trained all the actors to fight with lightsabers.

Is there a document of the "number system" or is it on a DVD commentary?

It is in a starwars.com homing beacon.

Homing Beacon?

http://www.starwars.com/site/homingbeacon/

I found it and am looking at it right before I saw this post. lol thanks anyway

I think we are underating obi-wan a bit. Anakin may beat him (just) in saber combat but there is no way or evidence that he would ever outrank obi-wan in force ability. The only thing Anakin can do with the force is to choke padme half to death.

Besides I wouldn't call Anakin un-focused against obi in ROTS , I would call him enraged. Obi-wan wasn't exactly focused either, he was blinded by emotion and anger.