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Volfe v ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi, who wins this? Setting Death Star.



1.Force
2.Sabers
3. All out

1. Karkko, Vos's Force Lightning did absolutely nothing to him, and he was able to disappear and reappear in a different place, and called himself a master of the dark side. What is Kenobi's greatest feat. with the Force?

2. Close, I'm not really sure.

3. Karkko wins, he went up against 6 Council members at once, and although he lost the duel was described as great. I doubt Kenobi could put up a great fight against 6 council members at once, okay at best.

1. Force- Karkko easily
2. Sabers, may be a tie???
3. All out-Kenobi may have a lot of trouble

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
1. Force- Karkko easily
2. Sabers, may be a tie???
3. All out-Kenobi may have a lot of trouble
If Karkko wins in the Force and sabers is a tie then how does Kenobi win overall?

1. What has Volfe Karkko done with the Force that is this impressive and he has never met someone as good as Kenobi. I am undecided in this match.

2. Obi-Wan- he is one of the greatest saber dualist ever, what has Volfe Karkko done with sabers, or who commented on his skill as being one of the best- nobody.

3. Obi-Wan- Even if Volfe Karkko is more powerful, in the Force, or has greater mastery then Kenobi, it will not bring him victory so it will have to go to sabers, where Kenobi would pwn him.

How about disappearing and appearing somewhere else? How about mastering Force Lightning or being affected absolutely none by Vos's lightning (he just smiles and taunts Vos while being electrocuted). A better question would be, what has Kenobi done with the Force to be considered above Karkko?

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Darkness/Darkness_080.jpg


http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Darkness/Darkness_081.jpg



Karkko went up against six Jedi Council Members at once. Although he lost, the battle was desbribed as "great".

http://swtimeline.ru/comics/Darkness/Darkness_064.jpg



Now, could Kenobi put up a great fight against 6 council members at once? Maybe, in a lightsaber duel only, but I have my doubts.




If Karkko is more powerful with the Force why wouldn't it matter? What would stop him from doing what Dooku did to Kenobi?

Edit: My mistake, I don't know why I thought it was 6 council members, now I realise that it was only 5, but still, that's good.

I must admit what Volfe Karkko has done is very impressive indeed.

Originally posted by Riverollv
I must admit what Volfe Karkko has done is very impressive indeed.
Yes, it is. Erm, who do you think would win this one?

I'm not sure, however, evidence seems to go in Volfe's favour.

Originally posted by darthsith19
A better question would be, what has Kenobi done with the Force to be considered above Karkko?

Blasted his fair share of droids during the Clone Wars with the Force. Deflected fire using only his hand. Deflected blaster bolts using only his hand. Crushed Guns. Used the force to kill off nasty parasites, even when beaten and wearing a force-supressing mask. Ragdolled Greivous. Made Durge explode. Stalemated a certain child of the force who was fully emerged in the darkside.

The energy emitting from a sparring session with Anakin made the surroundings levitate. He learned from Qui Gon (who can make people pass out with a touch).

Etc.

that force lighting Volfe is shooting there would certainly not put him over Kenobi, and if you post the rest of that fight with Vos, you see that Vos eventually did defeat him, with some "mental" help, that Kenobi would not need, and cut him in half.

Kenobi is atleast close w/ him in the force, and no question better with the saber, Obi- wan wins.

Blasted droids with the Force? When? This better not have happened during the cartoon...

This was in the cartoon, but still, neither of those things are impressive, any capable Force User can block blaster fire, as for fire, I don't see how it would be any harder than pushing metal back or any other substance of equal inertia.

Crushed guns when? Killed those parasites when? Are you talking about when he was wearing a torture mask?

Ragdolled a non-Force Sensative Droid with the Force, wow, really impressive.

Durge exploding was in the cartoon, it exaggerates the powers of the Jedi. When he stalemated Anakin's Force Push, Anakin wasn't thinking clearly, and Obi-Wan seemed to fly backwards with more force (he went further, didn't get up as quickly, ect.) so I'm not so sure that that was truly a stalemate.


When?

Most of the stuff that you named isn't very impressive, anyways, disappearing and reappearing in a different palce is more impressive that any of those things that Kenobi had done.




Karkko was NOT at full strength when he lost to Vos, he was overconfident, he only lost because he choose to go for the soup, AND the other Jedi helped Vos. A full-strength Karkko who didn't want to soup would curbstomp Vos badly, seeing as a not-at-full-strength Karkko was already owning Vos.



So then Kenobi could put up a great fight against 5 Council members at once? http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/20.gif

Originally posted by darthsith19
Blasted droids with the Force? When? This better not have happened during the cartoon...
It did, and the cartoon is canon and measures up with a character's powers and abilities, there is no contradiction. You saying that you don't want people to be as good as they actually are doesn't really matter to me.


He deflected energy in either case, plus he has a lightsaber, I don't see force lightning doing much, is my point.


Against Durge, after he blocked bullets with the force, in the cartoon.


Indeed.


He flung him pretty freaking hard. It is impressive.


It happened, get over it. It is withing Kenobis power level, seeing as how he did it.


It was close enough to a stalemate, and Anakin was very powerful due to using his rage.


Obsession.


Kenobi could fight blindfolded before he was a padawan, I don't think that really matters.


The force advantage is non existant, and even if there was one, it wouldn't be enough to claim the win over Obi Wan "I can block 18 hits per second and I am precise down to the milimeter" Kenobi in a lightsaber match.

So then Mace can really defeat an entire droid army without a lightsaber? So what happened in AOTC, then, how come he didn't kill all the droids in the Geonosian Arena by himself?

Okay, but what about Karkko disappearing and reappearing somewhere else, that is above anything that Kenobi has done, plus Vos's lightning didn't affect him at all. And actually Karkko's lightning will effect Kenobi in their Force duel, since Kenobi doesn't have a lightsaber to block it with.

Crushing metal isn't that great, anyways.

I don't remember him using the Force to kill any parasites, could you post a link.

And how long did it take him to gather that big a push? If he tried to do that on Karkko, Karkko could kill him with a blade while he was trying to do that, or with lightning if it was during their Force duel.

Okay, and how long did it take for Kenobi to charge up such a strong atatck that, nonetheless, isn't as impressive as disappearing and reappearing somewhere else, and remember that Karkko did that in his weakened state.

Okay, yes it was close to a stalemate, full strength Karkko could likely be close as well, though, and how does being enraged increase Anakin's Force Powers.

I'll have to check.

The hell... what does fighting blindfolded have to do with Karkk disappearing and reappearing somewhere else? And anyone can fight blindfolded, you know, just not as well.

So then could Kenobi take on 5 Council memebrs at once and put up a great fight? And wasn't it only EU Grievous that struck 18 hits per second, not ROTS Grievous? Plus he was only able to do that because of Soresu.

Originally posted by darthsith19
So then Mace can really defeat an entire droid army without a lightsaber? So what happened in AOTC, then, how come he didn't kill all the droids in the Geonosian Arena by himself?
I'm not going to pretend to know why. It could be that he was worried about the other Jedi, plus he spent a lot of time worrying abotu Jango and the Reek.


In an overall fight, I meant.


It's pretty impresssive to do it with the flick of a wrist.


I can't seem to get any comics from swtimeline... If you know how to, it would be appreciated.

About half a second.


Doubt it, seeign as how he can put that kind of energy into his force shield.


Now, this is just me, but I feel like blowing someone up is a tad more impressive in a combat situatiation.


It's a well known fact that giving into rage makes you more powerful.


Okay, it was when they were both not focused on their sparring.


Kenobi could fight well blindfolded as a youngling.


No doubt about it, as long as the members aren't Mace, Anakin or Yoda.

Nope, it was in the ROTS novel, Greivous actually got to twenty hits per second, but itt was more than Kenobi could handle, so he cut off Greivous' hands. And yes, it was due to Soresu, a form that he mastered, your point?

Wasn't he killed by Vos?

Originally posted by vader11
Wasn't he killed by Vos?

Vos chopped him in half.

It would be a dispute to see if ROTS Anakin was more powerful. Obi-Wan had an advantage against Anakin because Anakin in rage was impatient and didn't think about his blows much as he attacked. Obi-Wan took use of this, and plus his lightsaber style helped him as well.

Added to that Obi-Wan didn't really defeat Anakin in a fair duel, but rather in a duel of the high and low grounds. Anakin in rage could not think straight nor make smart choices, therefore why in rage he killed Padme and then foolishly and arrogantly jumped up to Obi-Wan's high land.

My vote is on Kenobi. Volfe Karkko took on six Council Members, but it didn't say he did well against six Council Members. He did lose, after all...

Plus, Quinlan Vos butchered him.

Volfe Karkko is just a Dark Jedi, Kenobi defeated a Sith Lord as a padawan. True it was luck, but still he wasnt killed by Maul.

So he was a thousand tmes weaker because he was worried? Very convincing.

Okay, but he could still possible do something to Kenobi like Dooku did to Bulq, hitting him with lightning after opening his defenses with a blade. But you agree that Volfe wins the Force duel, then?

Not really. Vader when he first gets in the suit crushes several metal objects at once, and he's only of avg. skill at that point in his life.

The only ones I can't find are the Old Republic comics. If you go there you see books, right? And for say Clone Wars era the end looks something like this:
main=bClone

Change the b to a c and it goes to comics. I figured that out last winter.


it was more like a full second, the point is, it wasn't just a regular Force Push.


And how's he going to win if he's spending the entire fight embedded in a Force Shield? And prove that a Force Shield can block lightning.


Okay, but it took Kenobi a while to do that, by the time he got around to it Karkko could have lightning-fried his ass 10 (exaggeration) times over.


In a saber duel, yes, now prove that it increases your Force skills.


Yes, but they were both angry. Their energies were lifting the objects, yes. I don't see how this will help Kenobi in either a saber of Force duel, however, against Karkko.



Okay. So what?


That's ridiculous if you really think he could put up a great fight against 5 Council members at once.


My point is a Volfe who had mastered Soresu could do the same. And without Soresu Kenobi couldn't have. It was due to form, not strength, that Kenobi could do that.



Yes, a weakened and overconfident Karkko lost to a Vos who was getting help from 3 other Jedi Masters.


On the contary, if you'll look at the comic page I posted above, you'll see that the battle was described as being "great" and "strong as Karkko", indicating that it was close, and he did do well.


Maul was weakened, cocky, and Kenobi was lucky. Karkko is above Maul as well. Lomi Plo is just a dark Jedi as well, Darth Bandon is a Sith Lord, however, Lomi Plo could beat Bandon in less that a second. it'd be like NJO Luke vs. Maul or something.

Thanks.
As asked for:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=42&page=056
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=076


I also found him moving this ship.
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=059
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=47&page=060

Okay, some object get lfited off the ground as they fight, because they were so angry. I don't see how that will help him in a fight with Karkko.

Okay, you've proved that Kenobi was being eaten by maggots, however, you have failed to prove that he killed them with the Force, much less, that he did it while he was wearing the Sith Torture mask and not after Alpha had removed it from him.

And look at the ship again. He only breaks the landing feet, impressive, however, he doesn't actually move the entire ship himself, he just destroys the feet and allows the ship to fall to the ground. Ki-Adi Mundi lifting the ship out of the sand is FAR more impressive than that, so if Kenobi is above Karkko with the Force, then Mundi must be able to dominate him, right?

And yet he was beaten by Vos, Obi-Wans inferior, in saber combat by some margin.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And yet he was beaten by Vos, Obi-Wans inferior, in saber combat by some margin.
1. Volfe was in a weakened state. He had been in a stasis field for a thousand years and had not eaten any soup for longer than that.
2. Karkko owned Vos in saber combat. He could have easily killed him, however, he choose to go for his soup and underestimated his opponent.
3. Three other Jedi Masters were helping Vos, helping him clear his mind and direct his attacks.
4. Vos got a lucky hit in at the end.

It's like with Kenobi and Maul, Maul wasn't at his full strength and was overconfident. Kenobi got lucky. Same here. Only Vos at this point is a little stronger than TPM Kenobi, and Karkko is a little stronger than Maul. Same thing.

Vos is quite above TPM Kenobi and yes the 3 Jedi masters helped clear his mind, but they didn't fight against Volfe and the only reason they had to clear his mind because he Vos had a brush with the Dark Side before and his mind wasn't clear and calm, Kenobi is always calm, always thinking how to gain an advantage, he doesn't need those 3 masters. And Kenobi is fair above Vos with sabers and also Volfe.

Thanks for agreeing.

Yeah, and that brush with the dark side occured because of Karkko. If Karkko is smart enough to weken his opponent with the dark side before fighting him then so be it, plus the Jedi do tell him when to strike, where to strike, ect. as well.


Yes, Jedi Master Kenobi always seems to be calm, except for in Obsession, and Kenobi isn't far above Vos, either, just a bit, and Karkko wasn't at full strength when he fought Vos. Kenobi won't be calm if he's sent flying halfway across the room by Karkko like he was by Dooku, either, he'll be knocked out cold.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Thanks for agreeing.

Yeah, and that brush with the dark side occured because of Karkko. If Karkko is smart enough to weken his opponent with the dark side before fighting him then so be it, plus the Jedi do tell him when to strike, where to strike, ect. as well.


Yes, Jedi Master Kenobi always seems to be calm, except for in Obsession, and Kenobi isn't far above Vos, either, just a bit, and Karkko wasn't at full strength when he fought Vos. Kenobi won't be calm if he's sent flying halfway across the room by Karkko like he was by Dooku, either, he'll be knocked out cold.

No, his brush started before, when his memory was wiped out, by Aaylas uncle, Karkko just exploited it. And the Jedi helped calm his mind and yes, they did tell him where to strike, but if this were regular Vos, before the incident with memory, he wouldn't need those Jedi helping him, he would do it on his on, even while those Jedi were helping him, it was Voses skill, that made it possible.

Kenobi is quite far above Vos in saber combat, even Mace praised him, he is one of the best of all times, when was Vos ever praised for his skill with a blade. And Karrko is no Doku.

Originally posted by Count Makashi

Kenobi is quite far above Vos in saber combat, even Mace praised him, he is one of the best of all times, when was Vos ever praised for his skill with a blade. And Karrko is no Doku. Right there is no question Kenobi is above him in sabers and, would not need any help
"mentally" obviously. Its definate for me, DS19 your understimating Kenobi big time, to think Volfe could do what Dooku could to him.

And if Karkko was smart enough to exploit it then it proves that Volfe is clever, so what?

He wouldn't need their help clearing his mind, but even with their help on where to strike, plus he got lucky cause Karkko got overconfident, for good reason's, too - he was owning Vos. Against somebody as strong as Kenobi he won't get cocky. Plus he was weakened. Tholme thought that it would take him, Vos, Zao and T'ra Saa combined to take out Karkko. If Karkko didn't get overconfident then and was at full strength he'd be ahead of Kenobi.

Karkko was clearly a fair bit above Vos as well, even in his weakened state - he is owning Vos until he gots cocky and Vos gets help. When at full strength and without cockiness he could definitely match Kenobi with blades, and could even be above him.

So then Kenobi could put up a great fight against 6 Jedi Masters at once? I doubt it. An okay fight at best.