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a very simple and at the same time, very complex question. what are your thoughts one this? is knowledge ultimately limited or does it have no limits. is it finite or infinite?

Seeing as I don't think the universe is infinite, I don't think knowledge is infinite either. Way to much for us to ever learn but not infinite.

It's as limited as memory. The capacity of long term memory is thought to be infinite, though cannot be proven. I personally believe there is a limit to knowledge.

You can answer this question from different angles.
Is there a limit to how much knowledge one human being can acquire?
- In terms of a human lifetime?
- Does the human brain have a physical limit in terms of how much knowledge it can acquire and hold?
Is there a limit to knowledge itself?

Originally posted by Fishy
Seeing as I don't think the universe is infinite, I don't think knowledge is infinite either. Way to much for us to ever learn but not infinite.

Information is infinite; our capacity to known it is not.

No one knows if there is a limit to how much knowledge the human mind can take in. Sure a person is limited by their short life time which would be no where near enough time to learn everything there is to know assuming we did know. A person is also limited by their learning capability as there is only so much the 'average' person can understand. Then again is the question asking if there is a limit to universal knowledge? I would imagine so but to the human mind it might as well be infinite don't you think?

no, but what abpout POTENTIALLY acquirable knowledge. if we see knowledge as an existance outside our subjective capacity for understanding of things.

Yes.

If you continue to gain knowledge it stands to reason (and the test of history) that this will lead to more questions which will themselves lead to more question and on and on ad infinitum.

As time is broken down to smaller and smaller bits (which afaik one can do forever) whole universes of new information are made.

Very interesting question...

depends on what "knowledge" is. IN facts, there is probably a limit. In interpretation and understanding...probably infinite depending on how you look at something.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
As time is broken down to smaller and smaller bits (which afaik one can do forever) whole universes of new information are made. Actually, there is (theoretically) a limit to how small time can be broken down. It's called Planck time (10^-43 seconds): the smallest unit of time in which anything known by our current laws of physics makes sense (ie, to say "less than Planck time" is meaningless). In this moment after the Big Bang, it's when quantum gravity dominated the nascent universe.

That aside: Quantum mechanics imposes a limit on knowledge because of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (this prompting Einstein -- who favored the idea of no such limit to knowledge -- to utter his famous, "God does not play dice with the universe".

Mystical schools of thought talk about the Void / Abyss / the Godhead / Nothingness / Formlessness: essentially, God as "He" relates to Himself (as opposed to how He relates to the created world). This is a level of reality completely/forever beyond the ken of any lesser being.

In a nutshell: there are precedents in both physics and mysticism for postulating a limit to knowledge. But this does not necessarily mean there is a limit to information independent of human query.

Originally posted by Mindship
Actually, there is (theoretically) a limit to how small time can be broken down. It's called Planck time (10^-43 seconds): the smallest unit of time in which anything known by our current laws of physics makes sense (ie, to say "less than Planck time" is meaningless). In this moment after the Big Bang, it's when quantum gravity dominated the nascent universe.

I know about PlankTime I was just thinking that since our understanding breaks down at that point doesn't mean that reality does.

Originally posted by Mindship
That aside: Quantum mechanics imposes a limit on knowledge because of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (this prompting Einstein -- who favored the idea of no such limit to knowledge -- to utter his famous, "God does not play dice with the universe".

The limit from the UP exists because it prevents certain knowledge from existing at the same time, right? ie the information exists and therefore the knowledge about it might exist.

Originally posted by Mindship
Mystical schools of thought talk about the Void / Abyss / the Godhead / Nothingness / Formlessness: essentially, God as "He" relates to Himself (as opposed to how He relates to the created world). This is a level of reality completely/forever beyond the ken of any lesser being.

*nods thoughtfully*

Originally posted by Mindship
In a nutshell: there are precedents in both physics and mysticism for postulating a limit to knowledge. But this does not necessarily mean there is a limit to information independent of human query.

Thanks.

I think of it this way:


1) We are not immortal. We live short lives, and in that limitted frame of conciousness, we could not possibly know all there is to know.


2) We only occupy one world. How could we have full knowledge of this entire universe, when we only exist on one world ? One out of trillions and trillions of worlds ?



3) We cannot read everyone's minds To know all is to know what everyone else knows as well. Can you read other people's minds ? Can you connect to every single human and animal mind on the planet ?




Point Being due to several conditions which limit us, our knowledge is limitted and always will be.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I know about PlankTime I was just thinking that since our understanding breaks down at that point doesn't mean that reality does.Agreed. Personally, I suspect that as our physics gets a better grasp of, say, brane theories and other dimensions/universes, physical reality may reveal some kind of fractal nature. But this will probably be the state of physics centuries into the future.

The limit from the UP exists because it prevents certain knowledge from existing at the same time, right? ie the information exists and therefore the knowledge about it might exist.The UP says, eg, that you can't know an electron's momentum and position simultaneously at any one given moment. Whether this represents a limit to what we can know or what is simply knowable is a good question. Einstein postulated "hidden variables," which potentially would return certainty to this level of reality.

Thanks. The pleasure is mine (no, really; how often do I get to write a whole mess of impressive-looking stuff and have others think I know what I'm talking about ).

Originally posted by leonheartmm
a very simple and at the same time, very complex question. what are your thoughts one this? is knowledge ultimately limited or does it have no limits. is it finite or infinite?

Once man can comprehend infinity, will we be able to ascertain what is infinite and what is not. I find it ironic that we can accept the universe being infinite, but we can not accept the notion of a "supreme being".

Knowledge is related to external conscious experience.

Empiric knowledge for example is finite because experience is finite. Experience is finite because the universe is finite.

If we want more knowledge, then we need new perceptions that will lead to new experiences of which we can acquire new knowledge.

New knowledge requires new perceptions.

Originally posted by AOR
Once man can comprehend infinity, will we be able to ascertain what is infinite and what is not. I find it ironic that we can accept the universe being infinite, but we can not accept the notion of a "supreme being". Who is this we? Your statement offends me in so many ways I think I might just go kill myself.

Originally posted by Magee
Who is this we? Your statement offends me in so many ways I think I might just go kill myself.

Would that reduce or increase the information in the universe?

Information is neither created nor destroyed, just revised. dance

Originally posted by Mindship
Information is neither created nor destroyed, just revised. dance

But you can create information.

Synergy. If I have 10,000 atoms thats some information. If I take them entangle them into a quantum computer there's more information due to complexity.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But you can create information.

Synergy. If I have 10,000 atoms thats some information. If I take them entangle them into a quantum computer there's more information due to complexity.
Works for me.

Originally posted by Magee
Who is this we? Your statement offends me in so many ways I think I might just go kill myself.

Strange. You seem to carry the notion that your statement somehow means something to me. That I should be worried about offending some one when posting my opinion. I'm sorry it offended you. Here's a quarter, go call some one who cares...

Originally posted by Mindship
Information is infinite; our capacity to known it is not. Yeppers.

Now here's a different view, what if god is information/knowledge/evolving and nothing more.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Now here's a different view, what if god is information/knowledge/evolving and nothing more. God/Universe as a giant quantum computer. Hokey Smokes, Debwinkle!

Originally posted by leonheartmm
a very simple and at the same time, very complex question. what are your thoughts one this? is knowledge ultimately limited or does it have no limits. is it finite or infinite?

I don't know...

Originally posted by Mindship
God/Universe as a giant quantum computer. Hokey Smokes, Debwinkle! Well what if the universe/spirit/life are like "whole/parts" or holons? examples would be a whole atom is part of a whole molecule, and the whole molecule is part of a whole cell, and the whole cell is part of a whole organism. One cannot exist without the other. And the Kosmos is simply a part of the next moment's whole, indefinitely. And since they are connected and have communions they influence and communicate in some way. It could be seen as the invisible such as what we call spirit/mind in a quantum like fashion ever transcending process on all levels that we would call being creative which is creation. Matter to life to mind, to maybe even higher stages. Maybe called spirit in action, but it quantum stages or transcendence or creation creating a Kosmos, but with infinite knowledge of some sort.

An organism can exist without an atom. Let's be realistic here Debbie.

Atoms make up everything, don't they? Well you see where I'm coming from don't you. Smaller parts of a whole, yet they must be seperate but still and you need both, just like a letter is part of a word and a word is part of a sentence and a sentence is part of a paragraph and so on...

Nah.

Not sub-atomic particles ahahhahaa I win.

Here's another mind boggling thought. What are atoms made up of? Electrons, protons and neutron. But they are just probabities of where a certain type of energy might be. So we are all just a bunch a wierd probablity thingies? Stuff gets very weird when science goes this far

Originally posted by debbiejo
Atoms make up everything, don't they? Well you see where I'm coming from don't you. Smaller parts of a whole, yet they must be seperate but still and you need both, just like a letter is part of a word and a word is part of a sentence and a sentence is part of a paragraph and so on...

Yeah.

Just you implied the organism couldn't survive without the original atom.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Nah.

Not sub-atomic particles ahahhahaa I win. Well sub-atomic particles are parts of an atom, unless I'm forgetting something....

Quit confusing me.

I think debbiejo may be on to something here.

IWHASWU

edit.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well what if the universe/spirit/life are like "whole/parts" or holons? examples would be a whole atom is part of a whole molecule, and the whole molecule is part of a whole cell, and the whole cell is part of a whole organism. One cannot exist without the other. And the Kosmos is simply a part of the next moment's whole, indefinitely. And since they are connected and have communions they influence and communicate in some way. It could be seen as the invisible such as what we call spirit/mind in a quantum like fashion ever transcending process on all levels that we would call being creative which is creation. Matter to life to mind, to maybe even higher stages. Maybe called spirit in action, but it quantum stages or transcendence or creation creating a Kosmos, but with infinite knowledge of some sort. Spirit as fractal resonance. Nice...

Well thankies, It's actually a cool idea really. I mean a part must hold on to it's own identity and have its own autonomy for it to be able to exist and have its own wholeness. Each wholeness is part of another wholeness or whole systems.

atoms and molecules CONSIST you, the same way electrical signals consist your thoughts but none of them ARE you. the same way the molecules of paper and ink are all that MAKE UP a methematical equation{or did when we didnt use computers etc} but none of them ARE the equation, nor are the imaginary alphabets used to make it up. the concept is seperate from almost all of its constituents and only relies on them for conveyance. the WHOLENESS of our existance is not in our constituent parts i think.

although paradoxically, without our parts, our wholeness would sieze to exist. and our parts directly affect our wholeness.

Holism rocks. dancingcheese

By definition, knowledge is unlimited, as you could fabricate knowledge. What do you define as knowledge? It is an abstract concept. Until you can give knowledge a finite, specific definition, you do not have a finite concept.

In theory, one can never learn everything. It would take an infinate amount of years. More scientific studies are made everyday. More is learned with each passing milli-second. Still it would be impossible for the world to know everything.

There are some who go as far as to say that if man were to learn everything there is to learn then the world would collapse into itself, economically, socially, literally...

And the rest of the Cosmos?

I think the more important question is, Could one register and catalogue Every piece of knowledge

And the rest of the Cosmos? I read an interesting article in yesterday's NY Times. Basically it said that because the universe is expanding (and thanks to dark energy, it is expanding at an accelerating rate), at some point in the far future the "observable universe" will be reduced to just our gravity-bound Local Group of galaxies, as everything else will have gone over the cosmic horizon, so to speak.

To astronomers in that far future, the universe will seem very much like how astronomers saw the universe before the 1920s: just the Milky Way surrounded by static, infinite darkness.

Of course, this is 100 billion years from now. I think it's safe to assume that astronomy will have advanced somewhat beyond the methods and instruments of today.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."

Einstein

He must've known.

Well, Blake and a lot of other people before him, said things to the same effect.

Originally posted by Drusilla
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."

Einstein

He must've known. Einstein.....droolio

lol

Originally posted by debbiejo
Einstein.....droolio
bangeralbertbanger

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
There are some who go as far as to say that if man were to learn everything there is to learn then the world would collapse into itself, economically, socially, literally...

I don't follow.

According to the Heisenberg Principle of Uncertainty, knowledge is limited. There are certain types of phenomena that you cannot observe (an electron's orbital position in an atom) without interfering with the event itself. Again, to use the electron example, to obtain the particle's exact position, you must bounce a photon off of it and alter it's speed and energy. To meaure its speed, you must refrain from knowing the position. To fix both the speed and location of the electron specifically is theoretically impossible. The observation of photons is another case in point. Light exhibits properties of both a particle (photon) and a wave. Which properties it demonstrates oftentimes seems to depend upon the equipment used to observe it.

On the macroscopic level of experience, other sets of problems arise as bodies move at relative velocities approaching the speed of light -- namely, time dilation. A traveler moving close to the speed of light relative to the earth, there will be vast discrpencies in the experience of time between the traveler and a "stationary" observer on earth. At high speeds, the theory of relativity precludes agreement in observation/knowledge.

No because the universe is infinite, but you can learn everything by becoming infinite.

Hi, I'm new member. Hello to everybody! I have read Drusilla's answer, and I'm definitly agree with Einstein's opinion.