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who wins

Maul is by far the better fighter. He could probably win in a far less shorter time then when ROTS Kenobi beat him.

Done before.
CW GG wins.
ROTS GG loses.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Maul is by far the better fighter. He could probably win in a far less shorter time then when ROTS Kenobi beat him.

So you think that Maul is >ROTS Kenobi.

It seems... Anyway, i think Maul may win.

Originally posted by kamhal
It seems... Anyway, i think Maul may win.

Are you agreeing that you think that Maul is better than ROTS Obi-Wan?



I honestly think it depends on which General Grievous we're talking about, here. I think that the Clone Wars one would win, although it would be a tough fight. But if this were ROTS Grievous.... well, he would lose. I don't know how effective Maul's lightsaber staff would be against Grievous' four arms.

Which Grievous? The CW or the RotS Grievous?

Originally posted by vader11
Done before.
CW GG wins.
ROTS GG loses.
QFT.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
So you think that Maul is >ROTS Kenobi.


That is not what I said. Rots Kenobi easily beat Grievous. With Maul's skills he certainly can and should beat Grievous in a shorter period of time.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
That is not what I said. Rots Kenobi easily beat Grievous. With Maul's skills he certainly can and should beat Grievous in a shorter period of time.

How? ROTS Kenobi saber style was the best one to face foe like Grievous. HOW can Maul beat Grievous faster than Obiwan did?

Originally posted by Darth Hord
How? ROTS Kenobi saber style was the best one to face foe like Grievous. HOW can Maul beat Grievous faster than Obiwan did?

He couldn't he would be hard pressed to do it all, Kenobi of ROTS, was a better swordsman and stronger in the force than Maul.

Don't forget the fact that his style was like meant to defeat Grievous.

Originally posted by kiddo44
He couldn't he would be hard pressed to do it all, Kenobi of ROTS, was a better swordsman and stronger in the force than Maul.
Exactly

I'm sticking with Maul. He crushed Anoon Bondara who's skills were "second to none." Anoon thrashed Qui Gon on a semi-regular basis.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
I'm sticking with Maul. He crushed Anoon Bondara who's skills were "second to none." Anoon thrashed Qui Gon on a semi-regular basis.
I understand that Anoon > Qui-Gon, however, you make it sound as if he dominated Qui-Gon? Did he? Just out of curiosity, have we ever seen the two go at it in any book, or do we just have the quote about Qui-Gon wanting to fight him any time he got the chance to?

Maul wins only because of the force. Saberwise, he goes down. I imagine that a saberstaff would be incredably to use to defend oneself against 16 Lightsabers per second.

What force powers is Maul known to have?

Originally posted by Darth Hord
What force powers is Maul known to have?
Force Push, ability to move objects, Force Push, Jump Speed, and the ability to resist lightning. Also Force Grip.

Not really impressive...

Originally posted by darthsith19
Force Push, ability to move objects, Force Push, Jump Speed, and the ability to resist lightning. Also Force Grip.

That's lightning resiestence won't help him much against Grievous!

Anyway, Grievous did beat Assaj and Durge simultaneously. That's got to count for something.

No... That is what i call an irony... I hope you have this linguistic resource in english because it's the second time i use it and people don't understand it...

Originally posted by Council#13
That's lightning resiestence won't help him much against Grievous!

Anyway, Grievous did beat Assaj and Durge simultaneously. That's got to count for something.
Yeah, but remember, that was EU Grievous, and so far nobody has stated that Maul could beat EU Grievous, plus Durge was only defeated, he didn't die, and it was Asajj during the beginning of the Clone Wars when she wasn't so strong.

General Grievous is better then Asajj even later on, it is stated in Dark Rendezvous. Anyway, Grievous is better then Maul with sabers, any version of him, but i think Maul can kill him in a all out fight, or at least he would have a chance, didn't he use choke or grip in the comic where he destroyed the Black sun. He would have a chance of doing that, if he gets some distance between himself and GG, or in the beginning of the fight. Mace did it, i know Maul isn't as powerful as Mace, but he is a Darksider and a Sith Lord.

When people say that General Grievous is 'better' than Darth Maul 'with lightsabers', what exactly are you saying? That Grievous is a better swordsman? Or that he has more skill? I don't think so at all. General Grievous's true strength in battle lies in Count Dooku's indoctrinated use of 'fear and surprise' as well as his overwhelming strength and fury. As far as outright skill is concerned, I truthfully see none from Grievous. But that isn't to say he'd lose to Maul, just that Maul is more 'skilled' with a lightsaber.

Anyways, it depends. Grievous reminds me of a freight train or the Juggernaut. Little finesse or actual skill, but overwhelming strength, speed, and fury. Maul is a gifted swordsman and a supremely capable martial artist; and while he is certainly a demonic fighter in terms of strength and speed in his own right, he also has skill that corresponds with his amazing physical ability.

Strength-for-strength, Maul can't match Grievous, and would have to give ground. His reflexes would have to be augmented with the Force to match Grievous's, but it is forseeable. He also has the added advantage of the Force, and he is an experienced and cunning warrior.

I think it'd be a good fight, but I definately see it going either way.

Originally posted by Council#13
Are you agreeing that you think that Maul is better than ROTS Obi-Wan?



I honestly think it depends on which General Grievous we're talking about, here. I think that the Clone Wars one would win, although it would be a tough fight. But if this were ROTS Grievous.... well, he would lose. I don't know how effective Maul's lightsaber staff would be against Grievous' four arms.

CW Grievous is ROTS Grievous. The fact of the matter is that Dooku told Grievous in the CW that in order to win he would near fear and intimidation on his side which he didn't have against Obi-Wan. Dooku WTFpwned CW Grievous while pointing out all of Grievous' mistakes in combat.

Maul > any Grievous

Originally posted by Gideon
When people say that General Grievous is 'better' than Darth Maul 'with lightsabers', what exactly are you saying? That Grievous is a better swordsman? Or that he has more skill? I don't think so at all. General Grievous's true strength in battle lies in Count Dooku's indoctrinated use of 'fear and surprise' as well as his overwhelming strength and fury. As far as outright skill is concerned, I truthfully see none from Grievous. But that isn't to say he'd lose to Maul, just that Maul is more 'skilled' with a lightsaber.

Anyways, it depends. Grievous reminds me of a freight train or the Juggernaut. Little finesse or actual skill, but overwhelming strength, speed, and fury. Maul is a gifted swordsman and a supremely capable martial artist; and while he is certainly a demonic fighter in terms of strength and speed in his own right, he also has skill that corresponds with his amazing physical ability.

Strength-for-strength, Maul can't match Grievous, and would have to give ground. His reflexes would have to be augmented with the Force to match Grievous's, but it is forseeable. He also has the added advantage of the Force, and he is an experienced and cunning warrior.

I think it'd be a good fight, but I definately see it going either way.

He is a better swordsman then Maul, but i do not agree that he has no skill, that is just the way he fights, his style he uses. If you think about it, from a certain point of view, he is the most skilled. He has no Force talent and he is so good, one of the best of his time. Very few Jedi would be able to defeat him in saber combat. (Yoda, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace, maybe Cin Drallig, i think thats all of them, maybe i forgot someone.).

Oh I agree, Grievous > Asajj still, however, by DR, I think that Asajj is strong enough that she and Durge together could definately take down Grievous.

You are correct, they are the same character. ROTS Vader and ANH Vader are the same character as well, but ROTS Vader is stronger. DE and ROTS Sidious are the same character, and DE Sidious is stronger. CW and ROTS Grievous are the same character, CW Grievous is stronger.

Wrong, we do not know how long Dooku was fighting Grievous in the cartoon before he was able to defeat him. In LOE Dooku admits that in sparring sessions he is often "hard-pressed to defeat the General". It is obvious that the cough weakened Grievous - he goes from lclose to Dooku and putting up a decent fight against Mace to losing 2 hands to Kenobi in 30 some seconds. I know Kenobi uses Soresu, which s a big help, but it's not that huge a help that Kenobi would be able to beat Grievous so much more easily than Mace did.

Mace even said Kenobi's style is what was needed, or best suited, to defeat GG, so that would tend to go against your opinion.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Wrong, we do not know how long Dooku was fighting Grievous in the cartoon before he was able to defeat him. In LOE Dooku admits that in sparring sessions he is often "hard-pressed to defeat the General". It is obvious that the cough weakened Grievous - he goes from lclose to Dooku and putting up a decent fight against Mace to losing 2 hands to Kenobi in 30 some seconds. I know Kenobi uses Soresu, which s a big help, but it's not that huge a help that Kenobi would be able to beat Grievous so much more easily than Mace did.

Dooku isn't trying to kill Grievous. Dooku named off Jedi that Dooku KNEW Grievous wouldn't be able to defeat and among them was Obi-Wan Kenobi. Grievous could dislocate his shoulders and split his arms to give himself four arms, and could use his feet as one would use hands. His unorthodox moves mainly involved misdirection with his many limbs, something only the most experienced and talented of Jedi could withstand. Much of this misdirection involved releasing a lightsaber from one limb and catching it with another, sometimes even while two other limbs are performing the same trick. The opponent, focused on limbs which are no longer dangerous, was then struck. In addition, his hands and torso are able to spin in a 360 degree motion. A Jedi master of offensive lightsaber training could only last so long against the General's unpredictable style of combat. The Clone Wars animated series also clearly displayed the anxiety Grievous creates for the Jedi both with his stealth tactics and relentlessness, unforgiving technique with a lightsaber.

That sounded pretty textbook, ESB.

Originally posted by kamhal
No... That is what i call an irony... I hope you have this linguistic resource in english because it's the second time i use it and people don't understand it...

Are you sure that's irony?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, but remember, that was EU Grievous, and so far nobody has stated that Maul could beat EU Grievous, plus Durge was only defeated, he didn't die, and it was Asajj during the beginning of the Clone Wars when she wasn't so strong.

The Cestus Deception was set at around the beginning of the Clone Wars (6 months in) and Assaj managed to defeat Kit Fisto.

No, it was a year in. Most of what Asajj learned from Dooku was likely taught to her before that, in the first few months of the war, before she was dispatched to fight a lot.


Grievous isn't trying to kill Dooku, either, what the fvck is your point? Dooku still states that he is hard-pressed to defeat Grievous.


So what? Did I ever say Kenobi couldn't beat Grievous?


Okay. What's your point? I already admitted that Kenobi would be the best Jedi in the Order as of ROTS for fighting Grievous, however, I doubt he'd be much better than Yoda, Mace or Anakin would be. So if he can defeat the General comfortably in saber combat, Mace should be able to defeat him without much difficulty as well, however, in LOE Grievous put up a fairly close fight against Mace. Proof that Grievous's power decreased sometime after his duel with Mace, and it seems it was the Force Crush that weakened him.

Originally posted by darthsith19
No, it was a year in. Most of what Asajj learned from Dooku was likely taught to her before that, in the first few months of the war, before she was dispatched to fight a lot.


Really? A full year? My mistake.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
CW Grievous is ROTS Grievous. The fact of the matter is that Dooku told Grievous in the CW that in order to win he would near fear and intimidation on his side which he didn't have against Obi-Wan. Dooku WTFpwned CW Grievous while pointing out all of Grievous' mistakes in combat.

Maul > any Grievous

When did he tell Grievous any of these things? And in Labyrinth of Evil, Dooku admits that at times he was "hard pressed" to beat Grievous and even kept some 'helpful' hints to himself "just in case."

Edit. Whatever!

Mauls too stupid to use the force against Grievous which is the only way he could win

It is stated in LoE that grievous was better than maul and grievous is just as athletic and plus his knowledge of all 7 forms puts maul to shame and even with the force (wich by the way is not mauls forte) maul wouldn't have the time to use it with grievous in his grill

his jedi kills is about 29 plus one dark jedi

Mauls physical prowress is almost negated by grievous's cybernetic implants and four arms

CW Grievous wins.
ROTS Grievous loses.

If this is true then the fight is over...

Originally posted by alterangel
It is stated in LoE that grievous was better than maul
I don't reem to remember this. Quote, please.



Who's kills are?

Gievous's kills are tallied at 29 jedi, 1 dark jedi

I need to go get my book for the exact quote but and i will but off hand i remember dooku saying that grievous was the best apprentice he'd ever trained using the 1<2<3=3>1 then in theory....

dooku>maul
dooku trained grievous
grievous>maul

but i will get the exact quote give me some time

ya that quote is in LoE it's something along the lines of maul was good but he was just a tool where as grievious is faster and better trined

Who is the Dark Jedi? And in the General Grievous comic it says that Grievous has killed hundreds of Jedi.


That would work, except that Dooku never trained Maul.


Okay, I'd like to hear it.

I know dooku never trained maul but the fact that dooku said grievous was his best apprntice means alot

grievous has killed hundreds those jedi where the only ones with names and the dark jedi was the one he killed on Dica and was rumored to have Bane's Heart: he doesnt have a name

and i dont have my copy of LoE so look it up yourself, poppunker knows wut im talking about and thats 2 to 1 and that quote puts this debate to an end as it says that grievous is better trained than maul so if u need that proof look it up

even without that proof i have proved that grievous beats him none the less as he has a higher kill count and four arms he was a ton so maul would have trouble using the Force on him and he can use six lightsabers if he wants to so im done with this endless debate

he weighs a ton?
obi wan was able to push him fairly easy, why shouldnt maul?

Originally posted by alterangel
I know dooku never trained maul but the fact that dooku said grievous was his best apprntice means alot


It means Grievous > Sora Bulq and Grievous > Asajj Ventress. Both of those people would be beaten by Maul as well, so it really doesn't mean shit.


And if you'll look at my original post, I think that CW Grievous could beat Maul, too, and that's the reason I want the quote, so I can use it in other debates, because taking the word of one or even 2 people doesn't work without a quote. You'll find that some debators at least won't let their point go without a quote, which is why I' d like it for future reference. But whatever.

I would be happy to find the quote however it will take a while to procure a copy as i cant find mine ill try online

i went to look for the quote today then realized that i lent LoE out to a friend.......a year ago and still haven't gotten it back.

LoE is one of my very favorite books, and I recall no such comparison between Maul and Grievous. Realistically, I'd say Maul has it in an all out fight. Dooku knew that Grievous - without surprise or fear on his side - was no match for any upper level Jedi , whereas Maul tooled Bondara, a Jedi whose lightsaber skills were "second to none".

dooku never said anything like grievous wasnt a match for upper level jedi?!! He flippin took ki-adi-mundi who is on the council and shaak ti a jedi knight and 3 others all at the same time i doubt maul could even take ki-adi-mundi alone

Also, didn't Mace BMF Windu say that OB1 was the only who could beat him due to his form or something to that effect?

Originally posted by alterangel
i doubt maul could even take ki-adi-mundi alone
What are you smoking?

Maul will defeat Ki-Adi-Mundi without much difficulty. He was trained to be an ultimate killing machine by Sidious.

He stalemated Anoon, whose skill in Light Saber Combat was "second to none" in the entire Jedi Council of his age.

And he alone was capable of fighting with two Jedi simultaneously and still beat them.

What has Ki-Adi-Mundi done that match these feats?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What are you smoking?

Maul will defeat Ki-Adi-Mundi without much difficulty. He was trained to be an ultimate killing machine by Sidious.

He stalemated Anoon, whose skill in Light Saber Combat was "second to none" in the entire Jedi Council of his age.

that quote about Anoon means nothing, and Maul was better than him.

Ki-adi- would lose to Maul yes, but it would not be easy for him.

Originally posted by kiddo44
that quote about Anoon means nothing, and Maul was better than him.
Yeah right! Quotes from even canon sources mean nothing to some people in this forum!

Originally posted by Gideon
LoE is one of my very favorite books, and I recall no such comparison between Maul and Grievous. Realistically, I'd say Maul has it in an all out fight. Dooku knew that Grievous - without surprise or fear on his side - was no match for any upper level Jedi , whereas Maul tooled Bondara, a Jedi whose lightsaber skills were "second to none".


He sad,that if he is going to succeed, against the strongest of the Jedi he needs the elements you said(ant their are very few Jedi, that belong in this group). Not every Council Jedi is powerful, like Trebor Colman and most aren't uber powerful like Yoda, Mace...,.
I only see, Obi-Wan, Mace, Yoda, Anakin and maybe Cin Drallig(but i doubt it) defeating Grievous.
And Grievous would defeat Anon Bondara as well.
But i do agree, that Maul wins in an all out fight.

I agree with Legend for a change. Maul would eat Mundi.

Maul smoking Mundi, eh? I don't see that happening any day of the week. While I'm fairly certain that Maul would beat Mundi, it's doubtful that it would be pwnage of any sort.

Sure, if Maul didn't have lightsaber skills comparable to Sidious', most def.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Sure, if Maul didn't have lightsaber skills comparable to Sidious', most def.
Yeah, MMaul > Mundi with a blade, but Mundi is really good, too, Yoda considered him the only one able to take down Sharad Hett in a saber duel and he outlasted any of the other Jedi who faced Grievous on Hypori, and Mundi > Maul with the Force.

I also believe that Mundi would lose easily to Maul.

Yoda only considered him the only one able to take down Sharad Hett, because didn't know him, all the other council members, knew him, he was their great friend, Mundis feelings wouldn't get in the way, like they could for the rest of the Jedi.

And Mundi lifting that transport on Tatoine when he was fatigued and inured, i am sure, that Maul could have done that to.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And Mundi lifting that transport on Tatoine when he was fatigued and inured, i am sure, that Maul could have done that to.
Proof? I find that very hard to believe.

i concede that maul would beat mundi but not pwn

but could maul take mundi, shaak ti, aayla secura, tarr seirr, and k'kruhk? no way!
however grievous took them on and almost killed them all had their precise little clones arrived

if grievous could take them all on and maul couldn't do the same then by logic, isnt grievous superior to maul?

and yes the force would be a valuable asset to maul as grievous is lacking of it, but as weve seen so far maul relies on pure PHYSICAL prowress, which grievous has in this case, maul would see it as a challenge but pay for his arragance. while he might try to use the force my question is when is he gonna have time to use it with 4 (or 6 mind you) lightsabers slashing away at him. Grievous could also just use two lighsabers and wait to get in a lock with maul and surprise him with his other arms (much the same way he killed adi gallia). maul wouldnt even see it coming, and yes grievous does way a ton in the clone wars when hes chasing palpatine and that ithorian uses his powerful throat to try and blow grievous away grievous keeps advancing. If maul tried to push him grievous could just dig in his heels and stay put. and unless maul can force-blow you up, he cant kill grievous

Yup. Because that was so effective with Obi-Wan...

Originally posted by Gideon
Yup. Because that was so effective with Obi-Wan...

1. Grievous was off his gaurd and was getting cocky
2. Obi>>>>Maul in the force, Maul would be to busy fending of grievous which wouldnt be long, to use the force and put lots of power behind it.

You didnt address my other comments, whether he could even force push him is below my list of arguments

General Grievous was cocky? Oh most assuredly. But at that point? I rather doubt it - since Obi-Wan had just finished relieving him of two of his lightsabers, and the Republic began its invasion.

I'd also like for you to prove that Obi-Wan >>>> Maul in the Force.

If Maul does some crazy powerful shit in the comics or novels, I'll take what I'm saying back, however based on my limited knowledge of Star Wars (the films), I'd say that it seems Obi-Wan has Maul beat in the force department, because Maul's greatest showing was what? Chucking a tiny piece of debris into a control panel? Based on what I've seen from the movies, there's no proof that Maul has the strength in the force to chuck something as large as Grievous back such a great distance (with considerable force as well given the way Grievous slams into the giant piece of equipment hanging from the ceiling; it's likely he would have gone much further back if there hadn't been any obstacles in the way).

Also, as alterangel pointed out, Grievous was quite clearly caught off guard by Obi-Wan's sudden attack, given how they had been engaging in saber combat and all. Obi-Wan was clearly dominating, usage of the force wasn't really necessary, so it wouldn't be something Grievous would expect.





ermm Gideon mate, no offense, but for your first comment to really be taken seriously, it would be up to you to provide the proof for Maul's superiority over Obi-Wan, and not the other way around for alterangel.

Edit - Another point I'd like to add is that Grievous didn't seem to even be too affected by the push really; such an attack doesn't seem to have too great an effect on his armour.

None taken.

Now, no offense to you, but you're incorrect. Alterangel made the claim:



...Once someone makes a claim, the burden is on them to prove it. Notice how I did not say that Maul was more powerful than Obi-Wan, I merely demand proof for Alterangel's declaration.

He is to provide the proof. Once I make a claim, then it'll be my turn.

I can see what you're saying Gideon, however if you'd look carefully at my post, you'd see that all I said was that it was up to you to provide said proof if you expected anyone to take your first claim seriously. I never said that archangel was 100% in the right as far as proof goes either, I wasn't dealing with his post, just your's. Anyways, as I was saying, I don't really know too much about what Maul does in the expanded universe. Care to fill me in? Anything on par with what Obi-Wan does in the movies? In regards to usage of the force, that is.

You might wanna ask Jollyjim, matey. He's better with Maul topics.

Ah, Ok. The way I see it, Sidious was Maul's Master for a reason, the reason quite clearly being that he was the more powerful of the two. This incarnation of Sidious, around the TPM times, then gained a subsequent 13 or so years to grow stronger, at which point he had become Yoda's equal, as can plainly be seen by how they both apply the exact same power in their lightning battle in RotS where energy builds up in the middle of the two and explodes. Rewind 3 years, and we come to the AotC period, and you'll see Yoda's seemingly best efforts with the force (when he faces much difficulty with preventing the pillar from falling onto Anakin an Obi-Wan at the end of his duel with Count Dooku) being at best on par with Obi-Wan's in RotS. I'd say it's safe to believe that by AotC, Sidious, at most, was Yoda's equal in the force (as it's extremely unlikely that his improvement rate from that point towards RotS would have been inferior to Yoda's given their respective ages), indicating that Obi-Wan's RotS incarnation may have been stronger in the force than Sidious' TPM incarnation, putting him above Maul. Anyway, that's my take on it; if some EU material completely proves my theory wrong, feel free to stop me from rambling on and on.

"Along with Kenobi's lightsaber mastery, he was trained in use of the Mind trick, Force persuasion and the more advanced Dominate Mind skill. As instructed by Qui-Gon Jinn's Force ghost, Obi-Wan learned the ability to become a spirit after death, like his former Master. He would later put this skill to good use, guiding and counseling Luke Skywalker.

Kenobi was also capable of a very powerful Force Push, which he used against Grievous during their duel in 19 BBY."

I got this off starwars.com databank and i checked it on wookieepedia and the phasing is identical.

and it states how that his force push the one on grievous in particular was very powerful, and if you just watch the movie and that clip youll get the feeling of how much he had to put into that push and you can feel the weight grievous has, its call character weight that they put into cg characters and in this case it feels like he ways a lot (thats just me but just watch it and tell me what you think thats just my opinion on the FEEL)

and in the AOTC novel it states that the reason obi defeated general grievous was due to his mastery of Soresu which allowed him to defend against such an onslaught maul doent have that kind of defense to compete with grievous

and are we forgetting that grievous almost won had kenobi not used a blaster (grievous wasnt on his gaurd to even anticipate it)

Originally posted by Gideon
General Grievous was cocky? Oh most assuredly. But at that point?

and yes grievous just said to him that hes bout to meet his doom, thats pretty cocky to me

its plain common sense that kenobi is more powerful in the force watch the friggin movies

You've just made five posts in a row; it's a complete waste. Use the edit button to add new excerpts of information or think your posts out entirely. This isn't a chat room.



The problem is that this is absolute speculation. Given what we know about Palpatine, I'd be hesitant to say that any incarnation of Obi-Wan rivals any incarnation of Palpatine in anything. A pre-TPM Sidious was able to use his lightsaber to 'trace Maul's outline' so accurately that, had Maul moved a centimeter, he would have been dismembered according to one of the Darth Maul journals, and given how Palpatine spent most of the following decade as a politician and Chancellor, one must assume that he didn't dedicate most of his time to dark side studies, suggesting limited improvement in the Force.

Furthermore, Yoda's chief weakness is his durability. He has to exert massive amounts of energy to achieve the acrobatics and maneuvers that he does, which is why it was so hard to catch that pillar. Not to mention that he was also fighting gravity, a la the pod scene in RotS when he's fighting Sidious.

...So, no, based on evidence, TPM Sidious would butcher AotC Obi-Wan with laughable ease. As would AotC Sidious and RotS Sidious.



Wookipedia is not a canon source. You can't use it for debates.



...Where is this on the databank?



Obi-Wan didn't fight Grievous in AotC. As for Maul's defense, I'd suggest reading Shadow Hunter. Furthermore, he fended off two Ataru uses simultaneously, despite being injured. Given that he has "pushed his physical and Force-assisted abilities to the utmost", I'd say he has the strength required to fend off Grievous's attacks.



Bullshit.

You are forgetting that that particular scene was a brawl not a duel. Grievous ran like a ***** more than he fought, and comparing Obi-Wan physically to Maul is a joke. Maul is vastly superior to Obi-Wan, physically.



Again, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was "off guard".



No it isn't. Obi-Wan has simply been shown doing more with the Force. That's like saying Sidious obviously can't use Force Choke, since he was never shown doing it, yet Anakin and Dooku can.

And to ad to Gideon post, Dooku didn't deem to have to much trouble with Grievous strength and Maul is his superior in that department, by leagues and leagues above.

Originally posted by Gideon
The problem is that this is absolute speculation.

Absolutely, but based on my limited knowledge speculation is the best I can give on such a topic.



I'm sure that's possible, again, I don't really know jack about Palpatine.



Don't most capable force users possess some pretty extreme precision? AotC Anakin Skywalker was capable of slicing off those poisonous slug creatures that Zam sent to kill Padme with some pretty quick slices of his saber while they were already on her, and as talented as he was, he didn't seem too powerful or skilled with a saber.



Maybe so, but a decade is a decade, and I'm sure despite his political duties, he would have found plenty of time to train. As for whether or not he could hide such a thing, we know that he could hide his innate force ability as well as his dark nature from the jedi, who I'd assume would be able to use the force to detect such things, so it's likely that hiding the fact that he had been training wouldn't be too hard.



NMan knows this, silly one.



I was actually referring to RotS Obi-Wan, and based on evidence so far provided I'm not seeing it. I actually think Obi-Wan's very underrated.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And to ad to Gideon post, Dooku didn't deem to have to much trouble with Grievous strength and Maul is his superior in that department, by leagues and leagues above.

Does physical strength and speed really matter when you have the force? I mean look at Yoda, without using the force he could barely walk, yet using it, he's pretty much faster than anyone in the movies. Even Qui-Gon and TPM Obi-Wan were capable of moving at insane speeds where they could hardly be followed by the human eye. Dooku himself fought with speed and agility far beyond the physical limitations of his old age. In my personal opinion, Grievous seemed much faster and likely much stronger (mechanical limbs) than Maul did while fighting, and what gave Obi-Wan the edge against him was his precision and general technique - something Maul doesn't seem to have imho.

Originally posted by Gideon
No it isn't. Obi-Wan has simply been shown doing more with the Force. That's like saying Sidious obviously can't use Force Choke, since he was never shown doing it, yet Anakin and Dooku can.


ok it shows him doing it more in eu and the movies, you cant make arguments like that on a versus forum, i could just say then that just cause you dont see grievous shoot lasers out of his eyes that he can.

its common sense that he can't just as it common sense that obi is stronger in the force than maul, hell he killed him when he was a padwan, u dont think he's more powerful as a MASTER?!?!?!?

and i didnt mean AOTC I meant RotS, i had two things going on in my head.

All i know is that i cant argue with ignorance or wutever it is that is making you argue that maul is stronger than obi, what more proof do you need beside the movies and the comics that obi is more powerful in the force than maul

Originally posted by nmensfinest
I actually think Obi-Wan's very underrated.



BOO-YAH!

Originally posted by alterangel
but could maul take mundi, shaak ti, aayla secura, tarr seirr, and k'kruhk? no way!
however grievous took them on and almost killed them all had their precise little clones arrived

You have to remember 3 things about that duel, though.
1. Those Jedi were exhausted when they fought Grievous.
2. Those Jedi were scared when they fought Grievous.
3. Grievous caught those Jedi by surprise by dropping down on them from the ceiling.

So could Maul have defeated them when they were exhausted, scared and surprised? Impossible to say.

I cannot see Grievous win here.

Originally posted by darthsith19
You have to remember 3 things about that duel, though.
1. Those Jedi were exhausted when they fought Grievous.
2. Those Jedi were scared when they fought Grievous.
3. Grievous caught those Jedi by surprise by dropping down on them from the ceiling.

So could Maul have defeated them when they were exhausted, scared and surprised? Impossible to say.

Your right that its impossible to say and thats quite possibly that he might be able to but we do know that grievous did and grievous has killed hundreds of force users one of which was a dark jedi, maul would be something grievous is use to: cocky aggresive, fast, smart, and relentless, and all of these traits he has been trained to deal with, and while maul might be relentlessly fast, so is grievous, he can match maul in almost anything except the force,

grievous is also a master of tactics, he is trained to find a weak spot and exploit it, (hence why it didnt work on kenobi, kenobi's defense was almost impenitrable) he knows all 7 styles of lightsaber combat and imploys his own 4 armed advantage to them, he would surely find mauls weak spot and exploit it as well

name a trait that maul can take grievous with? im not being sarcastic or condecending id just like to know please?

Originally posted by alterangel
Your right that its impossible to say and thats quite possibly that he might be able to but we do know that grievous did and grievous has killed hundreds of force users one of which was a dark jedi, maul would be something grievous is use to: cocky aggresive, fast, smart, and relentless, and all of these traits he has been trained to deal with, and while maul might be relentlessly fast, so is grievous, he can match maul in almost anything except the force,

grievous is also a master of tactics, he is trained to find a weak spot and exploit it, (hence why it didnt work on kenobi, kenobi's defense was almost impenitrable) he knows all 7 styles of lightsaber combat and imploys his own 4 armed advantage to them, he would surely find mauls weak spot and exploit it as well

name a trait that maul can take grievous with? im not being sarcastic or condecending id just like to know please?
1. Maul could have killed hundreds of force users, too, thousands, even, if he went up against them one at a time and didn't face any of the elites (Yoda, Kenobi, Mace, Anakin).
2. I don't know where you get that most of Grievous's opponents are ruthless and cocky, because most of them are afraid and thinking that they are going to lose.
3. He couldn't find a weakness in Mace or Dooku, there's a chance he might not be able to find Maul's Shatterpoint, either.
4. Maul can take Grievous with the Force.


I do think that EU Grievous would beat Maul, though, but just barely.

but which grievous are we talking about in this thread?

they are technically the same grievous he just doesnt do as much in the film

and i agree that maul could have killed hundreds one at a time, but grievous could do it 4 or 5 at a time

and though maul could take grievous with the force i doubt it would give him an incredible advantage or for that matter even a deciding advantage

Originally posted by alterangel
they are technically the same grievous he just doesnt do as much in the film

The CW GG(or the Eu 1) is better because he is not damaged from Mace's force crush which happened right before ROTS. So it limited his mobility and hurt his lungs. Or something like that

Originally posted by Darth Hord
The CW GG(or the Eu 1) is better because he is not damaged from Mace's force crush which happened right before ROTS. So it limited his mobility and hurt his lungs. Or something like that

yes but not enough to make him incedebly less effective, it probably did hamper his fighting skills but not by a big enough differance in a duel, he mught have lost some stamina but thats probably it, idk ill check it out

alterangel, when does Grievous kill 4 of 5 Jedi at a time, apart from the CW duel when those Jedi were exhausted? He does it in LOE against 4, I suppose, but those were average Jedi, Maul could have taken them out, too, no problem.

Originally posted by darthsith19
alterangel, when does Grievous kill 4 of 5 Jedi at a time, apart from the CW duel when those Jedi were exhausted? He does it in LOE against 4, I suppose, but those were average Jedi, Maul could have taken them out, too, no problem.

what more proof do you need besides those 2? if he can do it twice then he can do it again, although definetaly not against like yoda or mace and obi, i just dont think maul can win against grievous, grievous is just too fast and has too many attacks to block

man i need that quote from LoE that says that grievous is more skilled than maul, ill probably go the library tomorrow and look for it

though i do agree that maul is a great lighsaber combatant, i just dont see how he can compete with grievous speed and four lighsabers, grievous is too aggresive and strong for maul last in a saber lock
and like i said grievous is a master tacticion, he would find mauls weakness and exploit it

I think GG can break Maul's saber into two.

And i think that Mauls double bladed saber wouldn't work well against GG 4 sabers at once, he would have been attacked from different angles at incredible speed and would have to worry, not to cut himself in half.

No kidding. Darth Maul's lightsaber isn't designed for fighting Grievous. I actually think that Maul might be able to fair better against most Jedi opponents then even Grievous, but an actual fight against Grievous? Never, because Darth Maul's deadliness can be attributed to Sith variants of the forms Juyo and Ataro. Juyo neglects defensive techniques to increase aggression, which is the last thing anybody wants to do when fighting Grievous. Ataro, the acrobatic form, just gives Grievous more to work with. The more flips you do, the more limbs for Grievous to cut off.

As for the force, what is Maul going to do? Force push Grievous to death? Nobody except maybe Anakin or Yoda could crush Grievous' durasteel with pure force power. Obi-Wan bent it a little with the force in the book, but that didn't do more then surprise Grievous for a second. If the lightsabers don't work on Grievous, nothin works. And in Maul's case, the lightsabers don't work.

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Maul wins only because of the force. Saberwise, he goes down. I imagine that a saberstaff would be incredably hard to use to defend oneself against 16 Lightsabers per second.

bahaha.

Maul looses anyway. Like I said, Maul might actually be able to beat some powerful Jedi who aren't exhausted and surprised...something Grievous hasn't done. But Maul against Grievous? Naw. Maul isn't powerful enough to crush Grievous using the force. He can push him all over the place, but he can't do that forever, and Grievous will just get back up and Maul will be back where he started.

I think you forgot Windu...

Yeah, I forgot Windu. My mistake. I even forgot Sidious. Anakin and Yoda aren't the only ones who can crush Grievous with the force. There are others. But my point was that Maul isn't one of them.

Besides, why should Mace use the force to crush Grievous when his saber skills and his vision of Shatterpoints can beat Grievous anyway?

Well, ask him why he force crushed grievous' chest then

Originally posted by Quark_666
Yeah, I forgot Windu. My mistake. I even forgot Sidious. Anakin and Yoda aren't the only ones who can crush Grievous with the force. There are others. But my point was that Maul isn't one of them.

Besides, why should Mace use the force to crush Grievous when his saber skills and his vision of Shatterpoints can beat Grievous anyway? You forgot Dooku too.

Originally posted by kamhal
Well, ask him why he force crushed grievous' chest then

Because if I remember right he was pressed for time, he was doing something else while fighting Dooku and couldn't be bothered, so he just force pizzowned him.

Originally posted by vader11
You forgot Dooku too.

That is the second time I've sinned today

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
bahaha.

Is that a sarcastic laugh, or...?

Woot, hundredth post in this thread. firefirefireph

More of a sardonic one.

Originally posted by alterangel
dooku never said anything like grievous wasnt a match for upper level jedi?!! He flippin took ki-adi-mundi who is on the council and shaak ti a jedi knight and 3 others all at the same time i doubt maul could even take ki-adi-mundi alone

When i saw that i thought he was going to be more of a badass in the movie didn't he kill like 4 jedi in that fight alone

wtf did i ****in post on the wrong thread??

Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
More of a sardonic one.

Gotcha.