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Before i talked about whether or not it's a good idea to let comic book characters age like normal people. Now i'm here to talk about the 2nd of my big 3 issues with comic........ upgrades. They've all happend to pretty much every hero and villain out there right now. My question is are they justified, and if so how much is too much? I think characters should stay within their original power set and levels, what do you think, and how often do you think upgrades should happen?

man if its in their character to get upgrades.. More Power hien? like if a rogue is always workin out and researching new technologies Relentlessly then a lill upgrade is a just reward.

if a hero is clueless and shows no initiative/ambition in evolving to beyond their power set and is one dimensional they do not deserve even an accidental upgrade.

Originally posted by don't shiv
man if its in their character to get upgrades.. More Power hien? like if a rogue is always workin out and researching new technologies Relentlessly then a lill upgrade is a just reward.

if a hero is clueless and shows no initiative/ambition in evolving to beyond their power set and is one dimensional they do not deserve even an accidental upgrade. i get what your saying and i tend to agree it's just people like spider-man beast superman and others getting upgrades when they dont really need it they were fine as is, and upgrades seem to be happening more and more lately it starting to feel like i'm reading a power rangers comic

I think that for stories and characters to evolve, there needs to be change. Deaths, power changes, upgrades and downgrades, retcons, marriages, romances, villians, etc. And a lot of comic fans resist these changes, not realizing that they're the very things that keep their hobby fresh and inventive.

Also, I like the blue moon reference. Very topical, yet subtle.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I think that for stories and characters to evolve, there needs to be change. Deaths, power changes, upgrades and downgrades, retcons, marriages, romances, villians, etc. And a lot of comic fans resist these changes, not realizing that they're the very things that keep their hobby fresh and inventive.

Also, I like the blue moon reference. Very topical, yet subtle. i understand what your saying about changes needed to keep comics alive i'm just saying do these sorts of things more sparringly. That's also why i said comic characters should be allowed to age and retire i could understand that it might not have been an option 20 or 30 years ago but the world has changed and i think even younger readers would be very understanding if people like spidy and bats was allowed to retire. Think about all those amazing stories they've had over the years and how they could have been applied to other hero/villains. I'm not soo sure about the retcons though i think that just a cheap way of altering good comic moments just to make a few extra bucks.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I think that for stories and characters to evolve, there needs to be change. Deaths, power changes, upgrades and downgrades, retcons, marriages, romances, villians, etc. And a lot of comic fans resist these changes, not realizing that they're the very things that keep their hobby fresh and inventive.

Also, I like the blue moon reference. Very topical, yet subtle. The man has a good point.

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to as "upgrades" for characters like Spider-Man. Sorry if I misunderstood your point.

But I agree with others that they need to evolve to keep characters fresh. Incredible Hulk has what, 700-800 issues total since the beginning? Would it still be good if it was all "Hulk smash" the entire way through? They went back to that, huh? It's still interesting with the Planet Hulk and World War Hulk stories though.

And sometimes the evolutions are just cool. Read Iron Man: Extremis. At the end, Stark finds a way to control the armor with his mind (the armor he keeps in his suitcase just flies to him), have the undersuit part of him to grow around him as he pleases. It was just really cool.

Retirement?

I don't wanna lose the FF, Spidey, or any of the other greats because they refuse to evolve and are getting tired because of it. That's not fair to new readers either. They can pick up Painkiller Jane or Fall of Cthulhu (which I'm quite enjoying actually), but they would have missed the good times with Spawn, Iron Man, and Daredevil?

My nephew is 3 now and he loves Spider-Man. It'd be a damn shame when he's old enough to read comics, they decide to stop making Spider-Man.

Originally posted by Wolfie
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to as "upgrades" for characters like Spider-Man. Sorry if I misunderstood your point.

But I agree with others that they need to evolve to keep characters fresh. Incredible Hulk has what, 700-800 issues total since the beginning? Would it still be good if it was all "Hulk smash" the entire way through? They went back to that, huh? It's still interesting with the Planet Hulk and World War Hulk stories though.

And sometimes the evolutions are just cool. Read Iron Man: Extremis. At the end, Stark finds a way to control the armor with his mind (the armor he keeps in his suitcase just flies to him), have the undersuit part of him to grow around him as he pleases. It was just really cool.

Retirement?

I don't wanna lose the FF, Spidey, or any of the other greats because they refuse to evolve and are getting tired because of it. That's not fair to new readers either. They can pick up Painkiller Jane or Fall of Cthulhu (which I'm quite enjoying actually), but they would have missed the good times with Spawn, Iron Man, and Daredevil?

My nephew is 3 now and he loves Spider-Man. It'd be a damn shame when he's old enough to read comics, they decide to stop making Spider-Man. by upgrades i mean like how wolverine went from only regenerating up to about 75% damage to now being immortal. He was good as is in my oppinion, and it's not like newer generations would be missing out on the great times just because people like spider-man and superman are comic book legends doesnt mean there is never going to be another one like them. Long ago the hero in a comic always managed to save the day and catch the bad guy by the end of the issue and was still looking good. Things have changed now the good guys can be beaten half to death and left for dead by the end of their own issue. We were able to make that jump so why not this one. I just think it's time we learn to let go a little they've had one hell of a run and all these good ideas and current comic could easily be applied to new characters that have yet to make it in the big time. You said you nephews love reading spiderman and that's great but dont you think they'll wonder a bit when spiderman is in his eary thirties not only no but by the time they are in their late 40s? I think the comic industry owes it's readers something some sort of change of pace and new faces before the living legends we know of today loose their luster and fad out of our memories

Depends on the character and what kind of upgrade

If its someone like Spider-Man and he gets a bunch of useless crap like he got in "The Other", then no there's no point.

However, if its like Iron Man and his extremis upgrade, it makes sense to both his powers and character development

the other upgrades werent crap they just arent used by the wirters.
stinger, night vision, sensory upgrade overall, spped, strength upgrades were ok. but when wirters forget about these things then it gets annoying like in one issue where soiderman says it is dark here and llooks for the light....completely forgetting that he has night vision...

Originally posted by lando005
by upgrades i mean like how wolverine went from only regenerating up to about 75% damage to now being immortal. He was good as is in my oppinion, and it's not like newer generations would be missing out on the great times just because people like spider-man and superman are comic book legends doesnt mean there is never going to be another one like them. Long ago the hero in a comic always managed to save the day and catch the bad guy by the end of the issue and was still looking good. Things have changed now the good guys can be beaten half to death and left for dead by the end of their own issue. We were able to make that jump so why not this one. I just think it's time we learn to let go a little they've had one hell of a run and all these good ideas and current comic could easily be applied to new characters that have yet to make it in the big time. You said you nephews love reading spiderman and that's great but dont you think they'll wonder a bit when spiderman is in his eary thirties not only no but by the time they are in their late 40s? I think the comic industry owes it's readers something some sort of change of pace and new faces before the living legends we know of today loose their luster and fad out of our memories
There are good superheroes coming out today. I'm really digging Ant for example. However, the great comic heroes are already here and should stay. You don't ask the life of the party to leave during, do you? And Ant, while good, will never be the next Captain America.

I don't understand when you start talking about age. Do you mean Spider-Man will be in his early thirties and late forties? I don't see that happening (you wanna see him old, check out Spider-Man Reign). When Spider-Man came out in 1962, he was a teenager. Now, 45 years later, he's in his mid-twenties (I think it's around there). And I think the only reason they made him grow up was because a teenage superhero gets tired fast. It worked for his origin, it was original to make a teenager anything but a sidekick, but a kid's gotta grow up. Kind of evolving him by making him older.

I don't think the comic industry is losing anything. Check out Spawn, he recently brought the world back from Armageddon. Spider-Man, he is seeking revenge on the person that shot Aunt May by regaining the symbiote suit. Fantastic Four, the team is changed up a bit for a while by Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman leaving and Black Panther and Storm taking their place. World War Hulk is coming. I don't follow DC Comics so I don't know if anything big is happening there. Our popular comic characters are staying fresh after all of these years. And they will continue to stay fresh.

by regaining the symbiote suit.

he didnt regain the symbiote ,it just his normal black costume.

Originally posted by Wolfie
There are good superheroes coming out today. I'm really digging Ant for example. However, the great comic heroes are already here and should stay. You don't ask the life of the party to leave during, do you? And Ant, while good, will never be the next Captain America.

I don't understand when you start talking about age. Do you mean Spider-Man will be in his early thirties and late forties? I don't see that happening (you wanna see him old, check out Spider-Man Reign). When Spider-Man came out in 1962, he was a teenager. Now, 45 years later, he's in his mid-twenties (I think it's around there). And I think the only reason they made him grow up was because a teenage superhero gets tired fast. It worked for his origin, it was original to make a teenager anything but a sidekick, but a kid's gotta grow up. Kind of evolving him by making him older.

I don't think the comic industry is losing anything. Check out Spawn, he recently brought the world back from Armageddon. Spider-Man, he is seeking revenge on the person that shot Aunt May by regaining the symbiote suit. Fantastic Four, the team is changed up a bit for a while by Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman leaving and Black Panther and Storm taking their place. World War Hulk is coming. I don't follow DC Comics so I don't know if anything big is happening there. Our popular comic characters are staying fresh after all of these years. And they will continue to stay fresh.
ok and i respect your oppinion i just think that comics dont have to rely on the classics inorder to do well the can have them slowly fade out and replace them with new classics your right there will never be another captain america quite like steve but at the same time why should we settle with what we got when there may be the next greatest thing out there right around the corner but it doesn't get the spotlight it deserves because the original generation is still active? As good as they are even now i think they shine best in our memory remembering the good times we had with them they cant stay frozen in time forever just likw with spiderman not ageing anymore he came to be in the 60s dont you think it'a about thime he retired? i think after all he's been through he deserves that much it's like haveing a 43 year old high school student who has long since passed his classes but just simply doesnt graduate

Also take into consideration that not everyone has read every issue of Spider-Man. It's not getting old because we're not all following every storyline Spidey finds himself into.

And whether or not the original generation is still active won't stop from new characters from coming into popularity. I'm always looking for cool new characters. And if they're ignored, they probably would be regardless. As a kid, I never read an issue of Daredevil. I ignored pretty much everybody for Spider-Man. So it's not a matter of the classics overshadowing the newbies, the better ones overshadow the lousy ones.