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Can the strongest incarnation of the Phoenix Force defeat the multiversal embodiment of destruction known as

ABRAXAS
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/0/05/Abraxas442px.jpg

no


Abraxas seemed to be able to kill off alternate Galactus's for fun. hes pretty darn powerful

no phoenix force ftw

Phoenix.

Any reason why?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Any reason why? Cause she's made of fire?! dur

White Crown Phoenix, yes.


Dark Phoenix, no.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Can the strongest incarnation of the Phoenix Force defeat the multiversal embodiment of destruction known as

ABRAXAS
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/0/05/Abraxas442px.jpg

phoenix wins

Phoenix wins.

On what grounds does Phoenix win?

The only way they could kill Abraxas was with the UN.

Originally posted by llagrok
On what grounds does Phoenix win?

The only way they could kill Abraxas was with the UN.

The only way was UN. So do you think that somone like Living Tribunal wouldn't be able to kill him, if UN was the only way?

LT doesn't just walk around killing people.

But okay, LT and TOAA could probably kill him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cause she's made of fire?! dur

Phoenix already punked Galactus and quite easily at that. She's arguably above Eternity. Abraxas is going down.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Phoenix already punked Galactus and quite easily at that. She's arguably above Eternity. Abraxas is going down.

durfist

What? Abraxas ISN'T above Eternity...?

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus2
Phoenix already punked Galactus and quite easily at that.

She's arguably above Eternity. Abraxas is going down.

Abraxas is definitely above Eternity.

Abraxas's purpose is to fold the Multiverse,

Abraxas steps into a Universe, and it begins to collapse.


Only a power comparable or above the UN can banish him.

Phoenix is no where near such scales of power.


Abraxas FTW.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas is definitely above Eternity.

Abraxas's purpose is to fold the Multiverse,

Abraxas steps into a Universe, and it begins to collapse.


Only a power comparable or above the UN can banish him.

Phoenix is no where near such scales of power.


Abraxas FTW.

I've yet to see him be wrong about anything that involves Marvel Cosmic.

Originally posted by llagrok
I've yet to see him be wrong about anything that involves Marvel Cosmic.

Thanx for the confidence.

But I've been wrong before.


Once or twice. shifty

Originally posted by Nikkolas
What? Abraxas ISN'T above Eternity...?

What did he do to show he was above Eternity? Name one feat he did on panel to place him above Eternity?

1) Abraxas presence in reality does NOT automatically make reality crumble as we were lead to believe by some. I actually took the time out to re-read the relevant issues and that idea was presented, alongside scenes from the Earth of an alternate reality. That Earth was crumbling, why? Nothing to do with Abraxas, but instead because an alternate Galactus was consuming that planet:

Abraxas in New York:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15612473850.jpg

The Thing in the city:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15612473952.jpg

Roma talking about the city in peril because of GALACTUS:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15612522273.jpg

Dr Doom:

"We're getting massive readings from the Earths core, something is draining the planet"

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15612522243.jpg

GALACTUS was the cause of that planet being torn apart NOT Abraxas as has been presented. Abraxas as far as we have seen does NOT automatically cause a reality to disrupt and breakdown as soon as he steps into it. Anyone beg to differ? Provide a scan stating the point.



2)Yeah he killed a load of alternate universe Galactuses but that was off panel and you therefore dont know the circumstances behind those encounters.

Were they weak? (A weak Galactus has been driven off by Thor, eaten by zombies, driven off by Alpha Flight and blown out of a star ship by Thanos)

Were they direct one on one confrontations or were they sneak attacks?

Did Abraxas have help from his army of Novas, did he utilize weaponry or was it purely his own power?

On panel Abraxas did nothing impressive EVER and when 616 Galactus was resurrected he snatched the Ultimate Nullifier from Abraxas in a burst of energy leaving him reeling

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613034872.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613034952.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613034941.jpg

How did Abraxas retaliate? NOT through a direct assault himself, but he sent his army of Novas to do his dirty work for him.

Just to summarize, Abraxas has been hyped to ridiculous proportions on this forum and it is totally unjustified. He was said to cause a reality to crumble by stepping into it and that simply wasnt true, the scenes presented to display that ridiculous notion, the crumbling city shown was a result of an alternate Glaactus eating that alternate Earth.

If Abraxas could do that, if he had that kind of power inherently, why seek out the Nullifier? Why base all of your plans on obtaining a weapon when you have the natural power to accomplish what you planned to do with the weapon?

Simple. He didnt.

Show scans stating Abraxas made realities crumble by walking into them or drop the point.


The circumstances behind Abraxas killing those alternate universe Galactus' were not shown, they happened off panel. Therefore we cannot claim him to be more powerful than Galactus even. He was a big threat because of his role and his ambitions to destroy all reality. Power wise he was as far as we were shown unimpressive.

Oh and for the record.......Phoenix smites!!

Let's demean Feats yall.

Same ol, same ol ... firefirefireph


According to the Official Handbook of 2006

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2076/78904308jm6.th.jpg

"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

rendering Uatu the Watcher comatose and causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement" (because the Multiverse was folding due to Abraxas's approach, just like it clearly states)


Killing Galactus' had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Multiverse collapsing.

The "Death" of 616 Galactus released Abraxas, who collapses the Multiverse,

that's about it.

A threat of Galactus level proportions according to the writers

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613181727.jpg

Thats about right

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He was said to cause a reality to crumble by stepping into it and that simply wasnt true, the scenes presented to display that ridiculous notion, the crumbling city shown was a result of an alternate Glaactus eating that alternate Earth.

This gibberish was already handled by the Official 2006 Bio.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If Abraxas could do that, if he had that kind of power inherently, why seek out the Nullifier? Why base all of your plans on obtaining a weapon when you have the natural power to accomplish what you planned to do with the weapon?

You're confused cause you have to READ more and Hate less.


Abraxas was NEVER going to use the UN to collapse Realities,

Abraxas acquired the UN, to ensure no one defeating him:



Here when Reed uses the UN, Abraxas and Reed say to each other:


Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

Reed says, "Actually Abraxas I do,

You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"


yawn


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Show scans stating Abraxas made realities crumble by walking into them or drop the point.

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2076/78904308jm6.th.jpg


whistling

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The circumstances behind Abraxas killing those alternate universe Galactus' were not shown, they happened off panel. Therefore we cannot claim him to be more powerful than Galactus even.

Bull shit

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A threat of Galactus level proportions according to the writers

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613181727.jpg

Thats about right

hysterical2


This is your new form of evidence,

bulletin ads on the back of Comics?

This is a new low.

A threat of Galactus-level proportions...

More like "a threat to ALL Galactus-level beings" which all the dead Galacti would agree with.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Let's demean Feats yall.

Same ol, same ol ... firefirefireph


According to the Official Handbook of 2006

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2076/78904308jm6.th.jpg

"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began Originally posted by Mr Master
to BLUR,

rendering Uatu the Watcher comatose and causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement" (because the Multiverse was folding due to Abraxas's approach, just like it clearly states)

Ummm the dimensional wall started to blur because Abraxas was trying to reach 616. He sent the Galactus head to Earth so he could use it as a homing beacon and with that he made his way towards the heroes.

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613265452.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613265420.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613265588.jpg

No collapsing of the multiverse mentioned as a result of Abraxas' presence. Please find an on panel reference marking that out plain as day. No assumptions or speculations.




Originally posted by Mr Master
Killing Galactus' had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Multiverse collapsing.

The "Death" of 616 Galactus released Abraxas, who collapses the Multiverse,

that's about it.

Where was it stated the multiverse was collapsing? Please show me that line on panel, i dont want to hear what YOU THOUGHT was going on.

Im guessing you got it from this:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613331093.jpg

All this says is that Galactus' presence kept Abraxas locked away. When Galactus died "the doors to the multiverse were unhinged" i.e Abraxas had free roam, he was set free able to roam as he pleased. Please tell me and the others how that means the multiverse was collapsing? Even your own evidence, that little bio extract states that with Galactus' death Abraxas was set free to roam dimensions.

Please tell me where it talks of how Abraxas' presence caused realities to crumble? No scenes with your commentary telling me what you think was going on. Just an on panel statement blatantly marking out the idea.

Thats all.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
A threat of Galactus-level proportions...

More like "a threat to ALL Galactus-level beings" which all the dead Galacti would agree with.

Don't bother trying to debate with that intransigent individual,

his purpose on KMC is to demean every Other character's Feats,

that Stomps Phoenix's.

According to the Official Handbook of 2006

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2076/78904308jm6.th.jpg

"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

rendering Uatu the Watcher comatose and causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement" (because the Multiverse was folding due to Abraxas's approach, just like it clearly states)


Killing Galactus' had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Multiverse collapsing.

The "Death" of 616 Galactus released Abraxas, who collapses the Multiverse,

that's about it.




On Panel verification:



Abraxas conclusively being depicted as the SHATTERER of Universes,

and Roma flat out says,

"If we don't act soon ALL of TIME (the Multi-verse) will be LOST to us" (with a Statue of Abraxas in her hands)

right after Franklin says,

"Roma, she's gonna HELP us fight the Dark Man" (Abraxas)


Is she not saying that Abraxas will destroy the Multi-verse in other words?



IMAGINE a World WHERE:
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3291/a01qg6.th.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2355/a8hr8.th.jpg



IMAGINE a World WHERE: (in other Universes)
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7141/a02cw7.th.jpg



IMAGINE a World WHERE: (in other Universes)
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2551/a03bc3.th.jpg




From the WRITER'S own Words:


"IMAGINE EACH of those Worlds (other Universes) like Sand in an Hourglass,

an Hourglass which ABRAXAS WILL SHATTER"

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5175/a3sk6.th.jpg





"Roma, she's gonna HELP us fight the Dark Man"
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9348/a4qe4.th.jpg




"And if we don't act SOON, ALL of TIME will be LOST to us"
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/3844/a5yf9.th.jpg



Because of WHO?


Because of the "Dark Man" (Abraxas)


You're not changing anyone's mind here jack,

we ALL know what it is you do, everyone has caught on.

Originally posted by Mr Master
hysterical2


This is your new form of evidence,

bulletin ads on the back of Comics?

This is a new low.



April 19th 2007 Mr Masters hypocrisy:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8787589&highlight=Grant+userid%3A88754#post8787589

Abraxas is a Galactus level being bent on destroying all of reality and with an ambition to find the Nullifier in order to do it, so of course if he wasnt stopped he would be a threat to all reality, hence Romas comments.

However as clearly illustrated on panel, the scene you have often presented as evidence of how Abraxas causes realities to crumble once he steps in them was a major misinterpretation on your part im afraid. As actually stated by Roma and by the people in the scene the destruction was caused by Galactus eating the Earth.

Abraxas wearing down the dimensional wall as he draws nearer to Earth isnt evidence of him collapsing the multiverse. What an incredibly major stretch.

As stated on panel the death of Galactus unlocked Abraxas from his prison. He sent a Galactus head to Earth to use as a homing beacon, then he navigated through time/space using this beacon, as he drew nearer to Earth he wore down the dimensional wall.

Collapsed the multiverse? Youre having a laugh there mate

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


April 19th 2007 Mr Masters hypocrisy:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8787589&highlight=Grant+userid%3A88754#post8787589

hysterical

That's not a bulletin ad, you bafoon,


that's from the QUESTIONNAIRES to the Writers of the Comic at the last page of every issue.

That's Grant Morrison HIMSELF and the Writers of New-X-Men

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!


This is hilarious, you thought you had something, LOL!!!

Instead you shit in your pants dive in and swim.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Abraxas is a Galactus level being bent on destroying all of reality and with an ambition to find the Nullifier in order to do it, so of course if he wasnt stopped he would be a threat to all reality, hence Romas comments.

However as clearly illustrated on panel, the scene you have often presented as evidence of how Abraxas causes realities to crumble once he steps in them was a major misinterpretation on your part im afraid. As actually stated by Romas and by the people in the scene the destruction was caused by Galactus eating the Earth.

Abraxas wearing down the dimensional wall as he draws nearer to Earth isnt evidence of him collapsing the multiverse. What an incredibly major stretch.

As stated on panel the death of Galactus unlocked Abraxas from his prison. He sent a Galactus head to Earth to use as a homing beacon, then he navigated through time/space using this beacon, as he drew nearer to Earth he wore down the dimensional wall.

blahblah

Nothing new, same ol same ol ...

firefirefireph

Originally posted by Mr Master
hysterical

That's not a bulletin ad, you bafoon,


that's from the QUESTIONNAIRES to the Writers of the Comic at the last page of every issue.

That's Grant Morrison HIMSELF and the Writers of New-X-Men

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!


This is hilarious, you thought you had something, LOL!!!

Instead you shit in your pants dive in and swim.

So who would write the preview of the next issue to be found on the writers questionnaire page other than the writers themselves?

You presume too much boy.

Either way please show me a scene where its stated ON PANEL clear as day that Abraxas was collapsing realities by walking into them.

This time please try not to show us Galactus' handiwork kay kid?

So the official handbook states what Abraxas is capable of, yet Galactic Storm doesn't want to admit it? Interesting.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So who would write the preview of the next issue to be found on the writers questionnaire page other than the writers themselves?

You presume too much boy.

Yea, as always,

try and yip yap your way around the shit that exudes from your mouth.

You labelled me a "hypocrite" cause you didn't know what the heck you were talking about,

Now you feel like a D*ck, so you try a child's logic.


Please, your done son.


Go away.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Either way please show me a scene where its stated ON PANEL clear as day that Abraxas was collapsing realities by walking into them.

Already did,

only your intransigence could have missed it.

Originally posted by llagrok
So the official handbook states what Abraxas is capable of, yet Galactic Storm doesn't want to admit it? Interesting.

The official handbook states that as Abraxas drew nearer to the heroes the walls of dimensional space began to blur. As stated on panel Abraxas was trying to navigate through dimensions to get to Earth so theein lies your explanation.

Where from that do you just assume that Abraxas was collapsing the multiverse?

The point isnt stated on panel. What IS stated, what IS shown on panel is that Galactus' death set him free and he tried to make his way to Earth navigating dimensions.

What is NOT stated anywhere in a comic, what was ASSUMED is that he collapsed dimensions with his presence.

Originally posted by llagrok
So the official handbook states what Abraxas is capable of, yet Galactic Storm doesn't want to admit it? Interesting.

That's his style,

if it's above the Phoenix, he'll demean the character's Feat with straight up bull shit or fallacious statements mixed with truth to confuse the innocent onlookers.

This joker is getting old already with this same stunt.


He had MJJ only warping the UK ...

with that I tell you everything.

Originally posted by Mr Master

only your intransigence could have missed it.

On panel you havent shown me a single on panel statement verifying your theory.

What you've done is present a bio statement, that is explained by on panel statements which themselves dont support your theory. Blurring dimensional walls while trying to navigate through dimensional walls to get to a destination does not equate to Abraxas was causing realities to collapse through his mere presence.

If Abraxas could do that not only would he not be deemed a Galactus level threat, but his plans to destroy all reality would not be entirely dependent on a weapon.

Originally posted by Mr Master
According to the Official Handbook of 2006

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2076/78904308jm6.th.jpg

"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

rendering Uatu the Watcher comatose and causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement to ENTER 616" (because the Multiverse was folding due to Abraxas's approach, just like it clearly states)

On Panel verification:

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3020/earthalignment8vq.th.jpg
"our Earth is merging with other Alternates"



http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg
"creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself"




AGAIN:


"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement to ENTER 616"



A group from ANOTHER Universe ENTERED the 616 Reality because,

"Abaraxas drew near"


Sounds like Reality FOLDING because of Abraxas' presence.


yawn

Originally posted by Mr Master
On Panel verification:

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3020/earthalignment8vq.th.jpg
"our Earth is merging with other Alternates"



http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg
"creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself"




AGAIN:


"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcemen"

yawn

Because Abraxas was navigating dimensions. Nowhere is it stated that his mere presence caused realities to collapse.

Please show me where its stated and clearly illustrated or give it up. Your assumptions are not good enough

According to the Official Handbook of 2006

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2076/78904308jm6.th.jpg

"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

rendering Uatu the Watcher comatose and

causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement to ENTER 616"

(because the Multiverse was folding due to Abraxas's approach, just like it clearly states)



Killing Galactus' had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Multiverse collapsing.

The "Death" of 616 Galactus released Abraxas, who collapses the Multiverse,

that's about it.




On Panel verification:



Abraxas conclusively being depicted as the SHATTERER of Universes,

and Roma flat out says,

"If we don't act soon ALL of TIME (the Multi-verse) will be LOST to us" (with a Statue of Abraxas in her hands)

right after Franklin says,

"Roma, she's gonna HELP us fight the Dark Man" (Abraxas)


Is she not saying that Abraxas will destroy the Multi-verse in other words?



IMAGINE a World WHERE:
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3291/a01qg6.th.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2355/a8hr8.th.jpg



IMAGINE a World WHERE: (in other Universes)
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7141/a02cw7.th.jpg



IMAGINE a World WHERE: (in other Universes)
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2551/a03bc3.th.jpg




From the WRITER'S own Words:


"IMAGINE EACH of those Worlds (other Universes) like Sand in an Hourglass,

an Hourglass which ABRAXAS WILL SHATTER"

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/5175/a3sk6.th.jpg





"Roma, she's gonna HELP us fight the Dark Man"
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9348/a4qe4.th.jpg




"And if we don't act SOON, ALL of TIME will be LOST to us"
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/3844/a5yf9.th.jpg



Because of WHO?


Because of the "Dark Man" (Abraxas)

According to the Official Handbook of 2006

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2076/78904308jm6.th.jpg

"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

rendering Uatu the Watcher comatose and causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement to ENTER 616" (because the Multiverse was folding due to Abraxas's approach, just like it clearly states)





ON PANEL Verification:




http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3020/earthalignment8vq.th.jpg
"our Earth is merging with other Alternates"



http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/2111/earthalignment26rx.th.jpg
"creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself"




AGAIN:


"While Abraxas DREW NEARER, the Walls of Dimensional Space began to BLUR,

causing a group of Other-Dimensional superhumans called the Law Enforcement to ENTER 616"



A group from ANOTHER Universe ENTERED the 616 Reality because,

"Abaraxas drew near"


Sounds like Reality FOLDING because of Abraxas' presence.

And finally,



Abraxas was NEVER going to use the UN to collapse Realities,

Abraxas acquired the UN, to ensure no one defeating him:



Here when Reed uses the UN, Abraxas and Reed say to each other:


Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

Reed says, "Actually Abraxas I do,

You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Because Abraxas was navigating dimensions. Nowhere is it stated that his mere presence caused realities to collapse.

Please show me where its stated and clearly illustrated or give it up. Your assumptions are not good enough

But you admit that it would defeat Phoenix?

Originally posted by llagrok
But you admit that it would defeat Phoenix?

If he can't accept that Abraxas was collapsing the Multiverse with his presence,

as clearly depicted On Panel and stated in his Official Bio,

you really think he'll say Phoenix can be defeated?


The whole point of demeaning Abraxas,
like Jamie Braddock,
like MJJ,
like Merlyn,
like HOM Wanda,
like Insane Genis,
like the LT,
like anyone and everyone

is to place Phoenix above them all,

you see Phoenix at best has a Universal feat, knowing everyone in that list is equal or greater than Universal, forces him to downplay what all others have done.

It's been going on for years, the exact same style, only Now, yall are catching on.

I'm not too familiar with insane genis, is there a respect thread or something?

Originally posted by llagrok
I'm not too familiar with insane genis, is there a respect thread or something?

Insane Genis and Entropy together erased the Multiversal essence of Eternity.

But the issue alludes to Genis doing most of the work.

That's been demeaned by him too of course,

even though Genis spared the Microverse,
which is OUTSIDE the 616 Reality in a completely separate Universe.



Genis and Entropy also created the Multiverse anew,

Entropy played the bigger role in this one, for Entropy exploded into the New Multiverse/Eternity.

This previous post deals with your reposts:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Abraxas is a Galactus level being bent on destroying all of reality and with an ambition to find the Nullifier in order to do it, so of course if he wasnt stopped he would be a threat to all reality, hence Romas comments.

However as clearly illustrated on panel, the scene you have often presented as evidence of how Abraxas causes realities to crumble once he steps in them was a major misinterpretation on your part im afraid. As actually stated by Roma and by the people in the scene the destruction was caused by Galactus eating the Earth.

Abraxas wearing down the dimensional wall as he draws nearer to Earth isnt evidence of him collapsing the multiverse. What an incredibly major stretch.

As stated on panel the death of Galactus unlocked Abraxas from his prison. He sent a Galactus head to Earth to use as a homing beacon, then he navigated through time/space using this beacon, as he drew nearer to Earth he wore down the dimensional wall.

Collapsed the multiverse? Youre having a laugh there mate


Abraxas wearing down dimensional walls as he navigates through dimensions in order to wreck destruction doesnt equate to his mere presence caused the multiverse to collapse. Nowhere is that stated. Not on panel, not in the bios.



Abraxas navigated through dimensions destroying counterparts of powerful beings:

"Because you exist, you will bring him"

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15614271965.jpg

"Abraxas comes here to this Earth....he is drawn by the aroma of creatures of the multiverse"

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15614445158.jpg

Abraxas was causing the chaos, he was blurring dimensional walls, but not everywhere and not all at once. It was as he "drew nearer" as he navigated to a dimension. He never automatically made the entire multiverse start collapsing. Nowhere in any official source is that stated.

On panel he wasnt shown doing anything impressive under his own power.

Your claims that his mere presence was causing multiversal collapse are disputed by the fact that he required a weapon to do just that and the fact that the blurring of dimensions the handbook talks was said to be as he attempted to reach Earth.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your claims that his mere presence was causing multiversal collapse are disputed by the fact that he required a weapon to do just that and the fact that the blurring of dimensions the handbook talks was said to be as he attempted to reach Earth.

No one said the entire Multiverse collapsed because of Abraxas.

I clearly stated,

When Abraxas ENTERS a Reality, that Reality begins to collapse.

Abraxas had obviously entered sufficient Realities to cause an all out Multiversal collapse.


And your're still bull shiting, concerning Abraxas and the UN.

I already posted the PROOF, that Abraxas was NEVER GOING TO USED the UN:



Here when Reed uses the UN, Abraxas and Reed say to each other:


Abraxas says, "Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/6069/1unisusedbyreedtodestroyabraxa.th.jpg

Reed says,

"Actually Abraxas I do,

You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"




Now you can IGNORE this Fact all you want,

but I don't give a shit

I do this for the onlookers, I never considered you in these posts.

So you admit that he'd defeat Phoenix then GS?

Abraxas sought the Nullifier to give him power over all. Thats cool, because the point remains. If he was such hot stuff he wouldnt have required the weapon. If he could cause simultaneous multiversal destruction inherently, he would not require the weapon.

Abraxas on his own caused havoc with various realities across the multiverse, by navigating through dimensions causing them to blur as highlighted by the fact that it was stated it was his intention to navigate dimensions to wreck his destruction and that as he did so the dimensional walls blurred causing havoc.

Abraxas killed a load of alternate reality Galactuses, not simultaneously mind and we were not shown the circumstances.

So with all that in mind, show us all a single feat, a single output of power that marks him out as beyond the greatest universal powers?

Originally posted by Mr Master
If he can't accept that Abraxas was collapsing the Multiverse with his presence,

as clearly depicted On Panel and stated in his Official Bio,

you really think he'll say Phoenix can be defeated?


The whole point of demeaning Abraxas,
like Jamie Braddock,
like MJJ,
like Merlyn,
like HOM Wanda,
like Insane Genis,
like the LT,
like anyone and everyone

is to place Phoenix above them all,

you see Phoenix at best has a Universal feat, knowing everyone in that list is equal or greater than Universal, forces him to downplay what all others have done.

It's been going on for years, the exact same style, only Now, yall are catching on.

Rubbish. You've hyped up their feats in an effort to form a hierarchy where you could place Phoenix as low as you could.

I have merely been de-hyping this rubbish.

You mean being Jack Kirby and Stan lee? I don't know :/

Oh yeah, the NU doesn't GIVE you power, it's used to destroy any being/thing in the universe. It's not a power boost.

Abraxas navigated dimensions. He went from reality to reality in an effort to find the Ultimate Nullifier so that he could rule over reality.

As he drew nearer to realities as he navigated them he caused dimensional walls to blur.

Abraxas killed a load of alternate Galactus' in unseen circumstances.

Show an output of power that places Abraxas above all universal powers and makes him multiversal as you claim. Show him destroying a universe out of sheer might. Show him besting Eternity or at least pulling off a feat thats comparable.

Until then weakening dimensional walls one by one as he navigated dimensions and killing off a handful of Galactus' doesnt cuy it. Impressive but nowhere near the level you've been portraying

Abraxas sought to keep the UN so that no one would use it to destroy him. He didn't require it to perform any feats.

Phoenix got owned by Magneto

Originally posted by llagrok
You mean being Jack Kirby and Stan lee? I don't know :/

Oh yeah, the NU doesn't GIVE you power, it's used to destroy any being/thing in the universe. It's not a power boost.

With the UN, just like the F4 did to Galactus originally when he threatened Earth, Abraxas could bluff and threaten to destroy realities to keep order. He could destroy those who would threaten his ambitions to be ruler over all. Without it he was nothing, or at least not as impressive as some were making him out to be:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613034952.jpg

As Mr Master pointed out, he never intended to use it, it was all about leverage over others, with it who would threaten him:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15613034941.jpg

Thats my point.

Originally posted by llagrok
Abraxas sought to keep the UN so that no one would use it to destroy him. He didn't require it to perform any feats.

Phoenix got owned by Magneto

As a result of Jean placing barriers in her mind, to limit her powers.

Theres a reason behind it. To ignore the circumstances and present the event out of context is a poor practice in debate.

He is the living embodiment of destruction, why would he want to rule over anything.

Originally posted by llagrok
Abraxas sought to keep the UN so that no one would use it to destroy him. He didn't require it to perform any feats.

Phoenix got owned by Magneto

Your're wasting your time.

Though you're right.

Originally posted by llagrok
He is the living embodiment of destruction, why would he want to rule over anything.

With the UN he would have leverage over all those who would threaten his ambitions. As we saw on panel without the UN he was nothing. He could be stopped. When confronted by 616 Galactus he had it snatched from him like he was nothing. Did Abraxas attack him directly? No, he used his Novas to.


On panel he did nothing impressive whatsoever. Yeah he caused dimensional chaos by blurring dimensional walls, but that didnt destroy them, yeah he destroyed a few alternate Galactus' but we never saw that happen. We saw the result. When confronted with Galactus on panel he didnt demonstrate any power superior to Galactus.

He has never done anything on a universal scale even. Phoenix has manipulated entire realities in the palm of her hand for example. If Phoenix wanted to go around merely weakening dimensional walls that would be childs play with that in mind. Theres just no comparison.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your're wasting your time.

Though you're right.

So why dont you show us something Abraxas did with his own power that was actually impressive or at least beyond the universal level?

How is blurring dimensional walls between 616 and another reality impressive? He didnt destroy realities, he did nothing on a universal scale. He certainly started to cause disruptions through reality as noticed by Reed but nothing remarkable.

Yeah right. You're taking the New X-men comics too seriously, there was a lot of arguing going on around then. I mean, Xorn was supposed to be Magneto all along, and not Sublime. Retcon x-men was just wacko at times.

But that's alright, you're going to be added to my ignore list now

I hope you have a good life.

Mr master, quick question in your own view where would you rank phoenix in the marvel power Hierarchy ? I'm asking because I do agree with you in some point jus as I do with GS but surely marvel them self are never clear about any of their characters. If you look at any super hero in either marvel or DC you will see inconsistency, meanin that no matter what they might have said in one issue they will contradict it in an other.

Originally posted by llagrok
Yeah right. You're taking the New X-men comics too seriously, there was a lot of arguing going on around then. I mean, Xorn was supposed to be Magneto all along, and not Sublime. Retcon x-men was just wacko at times.

But that's alright, you're going to be added to my ignore list now

I hope you have a good life.

Disagree with someone and cant counter what they've said so put them on ignore?

Whatever floats your boat mate

Judging from the prowess you've shown so far you're swiftly going to run out of debating partners.

Dark Phoenix can beat Parallax in GalacticStorm's world.

That's all you really need to know to decide how much of a fanboy GS is.

Oh and there's stars on the planet. Because MJJ only warped the planet yet created stars on it.

GS, you're a complete joke.

Originally posted by tiakocom
Mr master, quick question in your own view where would you rank phoenix in the marvel power Hierarchy ?

Phoenix is a Universal Force of Nature, a "Child of the Universe"

The Phoenix Force is right below 616 Eternity, along with the other vital Concepts of the Universe,

IMO.

Phoenix does have Universal scale power, it's been demonstrated on panel.

Originally posted by tiakocom
I'm asking because I do agree with you in some point jus as I do with GS but surely marvel them self are never clear about any of their characters. If you look at any super hero in either marvel or DC you will see inconsistency, meanin that no matter what they might have said in one issue they will contradict it in an other.

Makes sense.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Dark Phoenix can beat Parallax in GalacticStorm's world.

That's all you really need to know to decide how much of a fanboy GS is.

Oh and there's stars on the planet. Because MJJ only warped the planet yet created stars on it.

He actually had MJJ only warping the UK.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
GS, you're a complete joke.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix a Universal Force of Nature, a "Child of the Universe"

The Phoenix Force is right below 616 Eternity, along with the other vital Concepts of the Universe,

IMO.



Makes sense.

So with that in mind, how can a Phoenix avatar who possess a segment of the Forces power, amputate the future of a reality and carry it away in her hand?

She never just manipulated telekinetically and carried away the universe at any one given point in time, she did so with an entire future timeline, so the universe at many given points of time down the line. To be able to do so, to carry a segment of the the timeline, to warp concepts such as space and time and carry them away with her like a solid object and on that scale places her and by extension the Phoenix Force far beyond any universal power.

Given that its stated point blank she amputated the future point blank, that cant be argued. Say what you want about what comes later in the white hot room, but that point remains conclusive.

Originally posted by Mr Master
He actually had MJJ only warping the UK.





Didnt you just use Abraxas' bio entry to support your ideas about his appearance?

So when Mad Jim Jaspers' bio says he warped the country for definite and PRESUMABLY the world, why is that laughable?

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/2/5013175063.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So why dont you show us something Abraxas did with his own power that was actually impressive or at least beyond the universal level?

Abraxas killing Reed, and every other Reed in the Multi-verse with a GESTURE:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3452/0unabraxaskillsallotherselves8.th.jpg


Go ahead, and bullshit your way around the Fact,

that Abraxas just affected a part of Reality in every Universe in existence.


Multiversal Feat baby.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
How is blurring dimensional walls between 616 and another reality impressive?

Abraxas approaches a Reality, and that Reality begins to collapse.

That Reality is a Universe.

So Abraxas doesn't even need to try to destroy UniverseS,

Abraxas only needs to come close to a Universe, and it's toast.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He didnt destroy realities,

Only collapse them. dontgetit

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
he did nothing on a universal scale.

Your're right,

it was a Multiversal scale instead.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He certainly started to cause disruptions through reality as noticed by Reed but nothing remarkable.

Collapsing UniverseS just by coming near them?

Not remarkable at all.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Didnt you just use Abraxas' bio entry to support your ideas about his appearance?

So when Mad Jim Jaspers' bio says he warped the country for definite and PRESUMABLY the world, why is that laughable?


Jim Japsers Remade the 616 Universe, end of story.

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg



"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1554/jsd5.th.jpg
"I made the Stars"



Here's the Proof


In Captain Britain's series that came AFTER Jaspers was killed by the Fury,

it's clarified for those that tried to demean Jaspers' Feat.





"Although Captain UK and I defeated the Fury & contained the Jaspers' Warp,

the Continuum was sufficiently damaged"
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9643/linda3zb4.th.jpg





"Roma informed Linda her anomalous presence on 616,

was preventing the Damaged Reality (Universe) from fully Healing"
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7398/lindach8.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2006 Captain UK Bio)





On Panel verification


"Your presence is an anomaly,

that has prevented this Continuum (616 Universe) from Healing"
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/920/linda4px8.th.jpg








I did find more evidence to further prove, Jaspers was the 616 Universe.


http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/madjimj2.htm

GO down to 'The Mighty World of Marvel #9'

(on the right hand side of the poker dot Jaspers with a Cane)


"Captain Britain entered Jaspers' Office to find Jaspers,

a Giant at ONE with the Universe"

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7223/m18gy5.th.jpg





Haven't you eaten enough of your own shit for one day?

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Dark Phoenix can beat Parallax in GalacticStorm's world.

That's all you really need to know to decide how much of a fanboy GS is.

Oh and there's stars on the planet. Because MJJ only warped the planet yet created stars on it.

GS, you're a complete joke.

Youre limited by your inability to grasp simple concepts. Thats what causes this astonishment. Within his reality warp, time/space all physical laws dont need to make sense.

Look at the M'kraan crystal for example. On the outside where we're restricted to reality, its no bigger than a bus, on the inside where time and space has no meaning it is boundless.

Within Jaspers warp he very weel could've created stars, planets etc, however outside of his warp where such concepts still hold sway the area of his warp could be as big as a house.

"BOTH Jaspers could effortlessly Warp Reality on a Dimension-Wide Scale" (Universal)

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8128/j2ql0.th.jpg
(excert from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006)


How does the Official Bio KNOW,

that BOTH Jaspers CAN Warp Reality atleast on a Universal scale,

if supposedly Jaspers 616 never did?


Oh I see, the official Marvel Bio is also hyping up Jaspers,

maybe they dislike the Phoenix in the hierarchy aswell, hmm.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix is a Universal Force of Nature, a "Child of the Universe"

The Phoenix Force is right below 616 Eternity, along with the other vital Concepts of the Universe,

IMO.

Phoenix does have Universal scale power, it's been demonstrated on panel.



Makes sense.


I agree with that...as far as the thread itself I have my own reservation but you and GS do the debating for us. cant deny that you both do bring good point on the table, for me i see it as jus more proof that those writers must be smokin somethin. they can never get their story straight

Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas killing Reed, and every other Reed in the Multi-verse with a GESTURE:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3452/0unabraxaskillsallotherselves8.th.jpg


Go ahead, and bullshit your way around the Fact,

that Abraxas just affected a part of Reality in every Universe in existence.


Multiversal Feat baby.




Abraxas approaches a Reality, and that Reality begins to collapse.

That Reality is a Universe.

So Abraxas doesn't even need to try to destroy UniverseS,

Abraxas only needs to come close to a Universes, and it's toast.



Only collapse them. dontgetit



Your're right,

it was a Multiversal scale instead.



Collapsing UniverseS just by coming near them?

Not remarkable at all.

Reed Richards doesnt necessarily exist in every reality of the multiverse. Abraxas said that at the moment in time Reeds other selves were dying. That gives no indication of amount. On top of that its debatable who was killing these Reeds, was it Abraxas himself or was he merely providing commentary for an event?

Either way killing a single human in a number of realities doesnt equal multiversal power. Watcher can extend his power across the multiverse, so can the Contemplator that doesnt make them multiversal powers. Extending his power across realities to take out a human in each reality isnt as impressive as destroying or consuming a reality, no way near. In terms of matter and energy how insignificant is Reed Richards in relation to an entire universe?

So Abraxas taking out Reed from an undetermined amount of alternate realities doesnt necessarily compare to someone doing something that spans across and affects an entire single dimension.




Nowhere does it state on panel that realities were collapsing because of Abraxas, presence or his own inherent power. We know he can blur dimensional walls as he nears them and tries to navigate through them, but that doesnt equate to collapsing the entire multiverse.

Nova tells us the kind of destruction Abraxas can bring. She talks of realities folding. That doesnt equate to the multiverse collapsing. As the handbook said dimensional walls blurred and as we saw on panel some heroes from an alternate universe crossed into 616. This alternate dimension never entirely collapsed with both realities merging, Abraxas just caused disruptions.

You havent proven that Abraxas was simulatenously collapsing the entire multiverse. We know his ambitions were to cause destruction over that area, we were shown he had caused disruptions in the dimensional wall between 616 and another reality, but this multiverse collapse isnt supported on panel or in bios.

Originally posted by Mr Master
"BOTH Jaspers could effortlessly Warp Reality on a Dimension-Wide Scale" (Universal)

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8128/j2ql0.th.jpg
(excert from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006)


How does the Official Bio KNOW,

that BOTH Jaspers CAN Warp Reality atleast on a Universal scale,

if supposedly Jaspers 616 never did?


Oh I see, the official Marvel Bio is also hyping up Jaspers,

maybe they dislike the Phoenix in the hierarchy aswell, hmm.

Im not denying Jaspers CAN warp reality on that scale, i never have. What im saying and what the bio is saying is that he did NOT.

Once again, the entire bio which clearly states he warped the country(UK) and presumably the world.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/2/5013175063.jpg

Originally posted by tiakocom
I agree with that...




Originally posted by tiakocom
as far as the thread itself I have my own reservation but you and GS do the debating for us. cant deny that you both do bring good point on the table, for me i see it as jus more proof that those writers must be smokin somethin. they can never get their story straight

Thanx, and in someways I agree with your assessment of Comic Co.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Reed Richards doesnt necessarily exist in every reality of the multiverse. Abraxas said that at the moment in time Reeds other selves were dying. That gives no indication of amount. On top of that its debatable who was killing these Reeds, was it Abraxas himself or was he merely providing commentary for an event?

Either way killing a single human in a number of realities doesnt equal multiversal power. Watcher can extend his power across the multiverse, so can the Contemplator that doesnt make them multiversal powers. Extending his power across realities to take out a human in each reality isnt as impressive as destroying or consuming a reality, no way near. In terms of matter and energy how insignificant is Reed Richards in relation to an entire universe?

So Abraxas taking out Reed from an undetermined amount of alternate realities doesnt necessarily compare to someone doing something that spans across and affects an entire single dimension.

This is what I mean,

again, it's the same thing over and over again,

demeaning the other character's Feats ... with gibberish.


Ok ... that's enough firefirefireph


as you wish.

I've learned to save my past arguments to word to.

In that respect at least you've taught me something

Now as everyone else can see, in that Jaspers argument your points got handled.

Anyway lets not go off on a tangent

firefirefireph


Have fun.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is what I mean,

again, it's the same thing over and over again,

demeaning the other character's Feats ... with gibberish.


Ok ... that's enough firefirefireph


as you wish.

Gibberish? How so? If you cant counter it then say so and concede

What i wrote was perfectly reasonable. My only fault was disagreeing with you, right Mr Master?

Once again.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Reed Richards doesnt necessarily exist in every reality of the multiverse. Abraxas said that at the moment in time Reeds other selves were dying. That gives no indication of amount. On top of that its debatable who was killing these Reeds, was it Abraxas himself or was he merely providing commentary for an event?

Either way killing a single human in a number of realities doesnt equal multiversal power. Watcher can extend his power across the multiverse, so can the Contemplator that doesnt make them multiversal powers. Extending his power across realities to take out a human in each reality isnt as impressive as destroying or consuming a reality, no way near. In terms of matter and energy how insignificant is Reed Richards in relation to an entire universe?

So Abraxas taking out Reed from an undetermined amount of alternate realities doesnt necessarily compare to someone doing something that spans across and affects an entire single dimension.




Nowhere does it state on panel that realities were collapsing because of Abraxas, presence or his own inherent power. We know he can blur dimensional walls as he nears them and tries to navigate through them, but that doesnt equate to collapsing the entire multiverse.

Nova tells us the kind of destruction Abraxas can bring. She talks of realities folding. That doesnt equate to the multiverse collapsing. As the handbook said dimensional walls blurred and as we saw on panel some heroes from an alternate universe crossed into 616. This alternate dimension never entirely collapsed with both realities merging, Abraxas just caused disruptions.

You havent proven that Abraxas was simulatenously collapsing the entire multiverse. We know his ambitions were to cause destruction over that area, we were shown he had caused disruptions in the dimensional wall between 616 and another reality, but this multiverse collapse isnt supported on panel or in bios.

You dont know anything concretely, what i've said in my last post is possible. Accept that.

Thats all for now. Nite nite. Its been fun

Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas approaches a Reality, and that Reality begins to collapse.

That Reality is a Universe.

So Abraxas doesn't even need to try to destroy UniverseS,

Abraxas only needs to approach a Universe, and it collapses.


Collapsing UniverseS just by coming near them?

Not remarkable at all.