Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Battlefield: Valley Of Golg

So who shall win?

Canon says Sidious is the strongest sith alive. Canon FTW!

The battle was over before it even began, Sidious destroys her.

Sidious obviously.

No contest...Sidious takes a massive sith shit on her...

Palpatine wins...and who is voting for Traya?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Palpatine wins...and who is voting for Traya?
Fanboys or people who like little old ladies and in this case defenseless little old ladies.

Mr. Dark Lord of the Sith

Darth Sidious easily. Wtfmegapwns if its DE Sidious.

Sidious.

well lets see...is sidious is about 15 with his pants around his ankles and shitty toilet paper in one hand as he wipes his ass and holds his sack up with the other...she might have a chance.

Actually they wouldnt fight, kreia will manipulate sidious into having sex with her

OMG that was funny.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Actually they wouldnt fight, kreia will manipulate sidious into having sex with her

Then Sidious uses his UNLIMTED POWER on her!

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
well lets see...is sidious is about 15 with his pants around his ankles and shitty toilet paper in one hand as he wipes his ass and holds his sack up with the other...she might have a chance.

You know, I have no doubt that Sidious would dominate her as of like DE, but as of ROTS I think a Force Battle between the two would be very interesting to watch.

Interesting in the sense that we see how badly Palpatine likes to hurt old ladies

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Interesting in the sense that we see how badly Palpatine likes to hurt old ladies

Traya WTFpwned three Jedi Masters with a flick of her wrist. She'd give Palpatine a good fight.

Yes, I agree, but only if this is RotS Sidious you're talking about.

Well yeah. And I quote myself, "I have no doubt that Sidious would dominate her as of like DE"

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Traya WTFpwned three Jedi Masters with a flick of her wrist. She'd give Palpatine a good fight.
If by 'good fight,' you mean 'he'd enjoy taking her limb from limb immensely'

Last I checked, Palpatine wtfpwned three of the best swordsmen the Order had ever seen in seconds. He's the most powerful Sith period, (Thanks, canon!) and can create planet wide storms and even bend the spirits of people Traya was in awe of to his will.

He wins. Hard

Originally posted by Lightsnake
If by 'good fight,' you mean 'he'd enjoy taking her limb from limb immensely'

Last I checked, Palpatine wtfpwned three of the best swordsmen the Order had ever seen in seconds. He's the most powerful Sith period, (Thanks, canon!) and can create planet wide storms and even bend the spirits of people Traya was in awe of to his will.

He wins. Hard

Get Palpatine's dick out of your mouth and use your freakin brain for a moment. Palpatine killed three strong Master's in something like 8 or 9 seconds. Traya killed three of the most powerful Jedi alive in a third that time. He BECAME the most powerful Sith. As of ROTS he's not at the top.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Get Palpatine's dick out of your mouth and use your freakin brain for a moment. Palpatine killed three strong Master's in something like 8 or 9 seconds. Traya killed three of the most powerful Jedi alive in a third that time. He BECAME the most powerful Sith. As of ROTS he's not at the top.

Exactly. Besides, he's talking about a Force battle, not a lightsaber match, Lightsnake. Kreia owned the Masters in the Force, Palp owned the Master with the lightsaber.

Yes, he is, Glen:
"Yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful Sith in history."

In direct reference to him as of ROTS. What does this tell you?

Use your brain, Glentract, thanks

Give me a source.

The NEC, the Ultimate Visual Guide, the Heritage of the Sith...

Do you ignore when I give this stuff in other topics?

No, you simply hadn't posted it when I last asked for it. Since then I looked it and found no reason to believe that it was making reference to Palpaltine's fighting ability. It was instead making reference to his control over the government.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Get Palpatine's dick out of your mouth and use your freakin brain for a moment. Palpatine killed three strong Master's in something like 8 or 9 seconds. Traya killed three of the most powerful Jedi alive in a third that time. He BECAME the most powerful Sith. As of ROTS he's not at the top. Those jedi werent "The most powerful" of that time simply because they havnt done anything impressive. Kavar lost to malak and malak is only half of what sidious it,


Sidious will rape kreia and badly


Oh yes and him taking 3 good swordsman? He didnt even fight for 13 years yet he did so well

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
No, you simply hadn't posted it when I last asked for it. Since then I looked it and found no reason to believe that it was making reference to Palpaltine's fighting ability. It was instead making reference to his control over the government.

Wow what part of THE most powerful dont you understand? It obviously means his strength, People with cow sense know what this means

Prove it.

Edit: Oh, and the RotS novelization does indeed say that the men Palpatine butchered were among the most gifted swordsmen that the "Order ever produced".

But GL also called them the B League

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sidious will rape kreia and badly
Well thanks for that nice picture. I have to go soak my eyes in alcohol now.

There is no discussion here. Evidence simply goes in Palp's favour, as well as canon facts. Kreia supporters simply have nothing against him (even though there are almost none).

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
No, you simply hadn't posted it when I last asked for it. Since then I looked it and found no reason to believe that it was making reference to Palpaltine's fighting ability. It was instead making reference to his control over the government.

Oh, give it a rest, Glentract. This is just pathetic:

The author of the source specified in an email I posted here with the Antediluvians ages back.

Power in context of a Force User? It means 'Power in the Force.'

Why it would bother mentioned Yoda failed to defeat the Most Powerful?

Hey, since you're a total hypocrite:
1. Was Traya referring to /political power/ when she said there was no POWER in Nihilus's hunger...
2. Marka Ragnos was the most POLITICALLY powerful of the most powerful
3. Qordis and Kopecz were only the most POLITICALLY powerful of the Brotherhood of Darkness

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, give it a rest, Glentract. This is just pathetic:

The author of the source specified in an email I posted here with the Antediluvians ages back.

Power in context of a Force User? It means 'Power in the Force.'

Why it would bother mentioned Yoda failed to defeat the Most Powerful?

Agreed. You're grasping at straws, Glentract.
http://www.dutch-starwars.com/database/personen/pics/cliegg_lars_1.jpg
"Kreia loses, son. Just accept it."

13 people voted Traya??

yea, 13 stupid people...

Sidious no question, Traya was very good though.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove it.

Edit: Oh, and the RotS novelization does indeed say that the men Palpatine butchered were among the most gifted swordsmen that the "Order ever produced".

It's Lightsnake's job to prove his statement before I am expected to disprove it because he was the first to make any such assertion.

And as DS pointed out, GL called them B team. Kreia took out the three top level Masters alive with a flick of her wrist.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Those jedi werent "The most powerful" of that time simply because they havnt done anything impressive.

They lead the Jedi Order. They were the best the Order had to offer. Those Sidious killed weren't nearly as high up in their respective time.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Kavar lost to malak and malak is only half of what sidious it,

Any proof of this? Kavar may have lost, but to someone of only half Sidious' strength? You're gonna need to back that up.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Oh yes and him taking 3 good swordsman? He didnt even fight for 13 years yet he did so well

Is his lack of practice with a saber supposed to chance anytime soon?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Wow what part of THE most powerful dont you understand? It obviously means his strength, People with cow sense know what this means

If it's so obvious you should have no trouble proving it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, give it a rest, Glentract. This is just pathetic:

The author of the source specified in an email I posted here with the Antediluvians ages back.

Power in context of a Force User? It means 'Power in the Force.'

Why it would bother mentioned Yoda failed to defeat the Most Powerful?

Hey, since you're a total hypocrite:
1. Was Traya referring to /political power/ when she said there was no POWER in Nihilus's hunger...
2. Marka Ragnos was the most POLITICALLY powerful of the most powerful
3. Qordis and Kopecz were only the most POLITICALLY powerful of the Brotherhood of Darkness

Would you care to repost the email? I'm worried it might have questionable context as well.

Malak being only 50% of ROTS Sidious is riduculous, in the old days people put him on par with Dooku and nowadays people put him about on level with PoD bane (slightly less that Dooku). 80% seems more reasonable, not very close but a fight between the two wouldn't be pwnage, either, seriously, 50%? That's like further away that AOTC Anakin is to Dooku.

Just putting in my 2 cents, continue debate as planned. I don't like ROTS Sidious already being #1 in terms of fighting ability so I hope you win, Glentract (I do think he would likely beat Traya, however, by a little).

Originally posted by darthsith19
Malak being only 50% of ROTS Sidious is riduculous, in the old days people put him on par with Dooku and nowadays people put him about on level with PoD bane (slightly less that Dooku). 80% seems more reasonable, not very close but a fight between the two wouldn't be pwnage, either, seriously, 50%? That's like further away that AOTC Anakin is to Dooku. Malak hasnt done anything impressive period. Nor did he display any force power which astonished me. Malak hell yea was powerful on the SF, sadly thats only on the star forge, revan utterly pwned him on the leviathen with out breakin sweat
Originally posted by darthsith19

Just putting in my 2 cents, continue debate as planned. I don't like ROTS Sidious already being #1 in terms of fighting ability so I hope you win, Glentract (I do think he would likely beat Traya, however, by a little). No wonder why some of us labelled you dumbshit, Cuz you DEFY canon! Sidious is no1 for fighting ability according to various sources so you lose!


The shit that any ancient sith > PT sidious is obviously from that janus era where everything is biased and shit sputs out, Its the logic era now guys where canon is canon

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
It's Lightsnake's job to prove his statement before I am expected to disprove it because he was the first to make any such assertion.

And as DS pointed out, GL called them B team. Kreia took out the three top level Masters alive with a flick of her wrist.
Absolute Bullshit and lies:
Someone ASKED GL why Mace broguht the B-team to fight Sidious.
His response: YOu need to be Yoda or Mace to contend with Palpatine

Those three were described as three of the top the Order ever produced
Whoops, sorry



They lead an order consisting of...THEMSELVES! Wow! Palpatine killed people with much more going for them.
There wasn't even an Order for that trio to lead. I've yet to see proof they were impressive



It's sense:
Why would Palpatine be regarded with power in a combat scenario?
I'm sure Nihilus and Ragnos and revan were all referred to with political power.
Newsflash, Glenny: power in context of Force users= power in the Force



If I still had it, I would.

Since I don't, I'll ask anyone who does remember that time to come in, but I can recite it verbatim:
Me: When you wrote that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith in history, did you mean in regards to strength in the Force?
Dan Wallace's reply: Yes, definitely.
Though he elaborated on the 'any given Sunday' rule, he certainly made it clear to me regarding exactly what he meant.

Quit complaining when you have a direct statement disproving you.

I was speaking of Malak at his peak, which is star forge powered Malak, do you agree that he is more than 50% of ROTS Sidious?


What the f*ck is wrong with you? Honestly, how can I lose a debate I was never even involved in? You need to read more carefully, you f*cking dumbass. show me where in this thread I defied canon. If you can, if not you are one official dumbass, not to mention a regular jackass.

Originally posted by Manslayer
revan utterly pwned him on the leviathen with out breakin sweat

According to who? You? Your fantasies aren't canon.

Substantiate your claims. Where is this ever noted? Oh? What's that? Nowhere? Indeed, it would seem it's impossible to know as the fight itself was never elaborated upon outside of the game (and contrary to your ridiculous assertion, we see Malak stun Revan right before Bastila arrives, and Carth further notes that Malak "would've killed ".



Ha. No.

Like hell he does; the statement calls Palpatine "the most powerful Sith Lord in history" in the context of a fight to death, not a debate in the Senate or a political argument. You have to prove that "power" in this case refers to his 'governmental control'.



If DS said that, he's wrong. Someone else called them "the B team", and Lucas said that they appear like that because "you've got to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious."

I'd like to know who calls those 3 tools, the best the order has ever produced, because they haven't shown anything on the level of god knows how many saber duelists.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Absolute Bullshit and lies:
Someone ASKED GL why Mace broguht the B-team to fight Sidious.
His response: YOu need to be Yoda or Mace to contend with Palpatine

Those three were described as three of the top the Order ever produced
Whoops, sorry



They lead an order consisting of...THEMSELVES! Wow! Palpatine killed people with much more going for them.
There wasn't even an Order for that trio to lead. I've yet to see proof they were impressive



It's sense:
Why would Palpatine be regarded with power in a combat scenario?
I'm sure Nihilus and Ragnos and revan were all referred to with political power.
Newsflash, Glenny: power in context of Force users= power in the Force



If I still had it, I would.

Since I don't, I'll ask anyone who does remember that time to come in, but I can recite it verbatim:
Me: When you wrote that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith in history, did you mean in regards to strength in the Force?
Dan Wallace's reply: Yes, definitely.
Though he elaborated on the 'any given Sunday' rule, he certainly made it clear to me regarding exactly what he meant.

Quit complaining when you have a direct statement disproving you. I'll be the first to step forward. I remember the email, it was the one that brought Dan himself here in the first place. Basically assraped the Ante-whatevers argument and brought the first trickle of pure logic in here. As I recall, Sorgo the Stupid and his merry band of Ancient Sith fanboys then proceeded to bully you because they lost an argument. Just goes to show you how one person can make a difference. Hell if it hadn't been for you standing up to them, the forum would probably still be run by those ignorant hypocrites.

And for that, you have my respect.

Face it, Glen. You lost. Palpatine is more powerful than any Sith before or after him. The NEC states it, ROTS novel states it, logic states it.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'd like to know who calls those 3 tools, the best the order has ever produced, because they haven't shown anything on the level of god knows how many saber duelists.

If memory serves: the omniscient narrator and, later, Obi-Wan. One fight doesn't necessarily translate to one being a tool, either. According to Lucas, the PT was the "prime of the Jedi", anyways.

You have any specific sources because I have my doubts as to their abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You have any specific sources because I have my doubts as to their abilities.

The Revenge of the Sith novelization (G-canon).

Originally posted by Advent


According to who? You? Your fantasies aren't canon.

Substantiate your claims. Where is this ever noted? Oh? What's that? Nowhere? Indeed, it would seem it's impossible to know as the fight itself was never elaborated upon outside of the game (and contrary to your ridiculous assertion, we see Malak stun Revan right before Bastila arrives, and Carth further notes that Malak "would've killed ".
And for what reason must malak stun revan? Its a possibility that malak couldnt handle revan at all thus why he had to stun him. Yes this is my assumption so its not proven but ill concede



Originally posted by Advent

Ha. No. Maybe not so, but not till you see what the people in the past typed, Like ragnos wtf pwning DE sidious


EDIT:

Just one thing to add, when carth refered to malak could have killed them he could have refered to the time when malak was going to strike revan down after revan got stunned. Because i dont see how malak is stronger than revan especially if revan could kill malak on the starforge

Originally posted by darthsith19
I was speaking of Malak at his peak, which is star forge powered Malak, do you agree that he is more than 50% of ROTS Sidious?
Sadly thats only ON THE STAR FORGE moron, and its only amplfying his powers you dumbshit.

Wait your so stupid to understand this so ill give dumbshit a metaphor. You know the sears towers? It had antennas to make the building higher but it DOESNT count because its not part of the structure get it? Same with malak and the starforge

Originally posted by darthsith19

What the f*ck is wrong with you? Honestly, how can I lose a debate I was never even involved in? You need to read more carefully, you f*cking dumbass. show me where in this thread I defied canon. If you can, if not you are one official dumbass, not to mention a regular jackass. You are defying canon right now you assaholic. You just said "Oh glentract ill suck your dick and hope you win the debate" which meant that you wanted him to win the debate of kreia > ROTS sidious which is AGAINST CANON!


don't like ROTS Sidious already being #1 in terms of fighting ability so I hope you win, Glentract (.

Dont like canon huh?

Originally posted by Manslayer
And for what reason must malak stun revan? Its a possibility that malak couldnt handle revan at all thus why he had to stun him. Yes this is my assumption so its not proven but ill concede
Who says that Malak was not handling Revan on leviathan? He alone managed to put up a decent fight against 3 powerful and vastly experienced warriors and Revan was one of them. In the end, Bastilla had to sacrifice herself to save Revan and Carth from the possibility of destruction and defeat.

You under-rate Malak too much.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who says that Malak was not handling Revan on leviathan? He alone managed to put up a decent fight against 3 powerful and vastly experienced warriors

He fought Revan and Revan only. He used stasis field on Bastila and Carth.


In the end, Bastilla had to sacrifice herself to save Revan and Carth from the possibility of destruction and defeat.

You under-rate Malak too much.

She did that as a act of distraction. I doubt Revan would of lost that battle against Malak.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sadly thats only ON THE STAR FORGE moron, and its only amplfying his powers you dumbshit.
Malak himself had also become more powerful by the end of KOTOR. Star Forge was only helping him in the final fight by keeping those captured Jedi in Stasis Form, so that Malak could drain there energies at the time of need. But you never see the Star Forge directly aiding or helping Malak in case of fights. Only Bastilla was aided by the power of the Star Forge itself and that happened in the command room.

So stop making baseless comments. You can actually do better then this.

The Star Forge indeed indirectly gave him some sort of booster due to strong presense of the Dark Side on it but that booster was enjoyed by all the other Sith on the Star Forge and they did not seemed too tough to handle.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Wait your so stupid to understand this so ill give dumbshit a metaphor. You know the sears towers? It had antennas to make the building higher but it DOESNT count because its not part of the structure get it? Same with malak and the starforge
What booster did you see the Star Forge giving Malak during the fights? It is indeed true that the presence of the Dark Side of the Force was strong on the Star Forge itself and it gave some kind of booster to all the Sith present on the Star Forge but that did not made them nearly unstoppable, because they were actually stopped by only 3 people.

Only Malak became powerful enough to be considered as nearly unstoppable because he understood the secrets of the Star Forge very deeply and could influence it's actions and he also had made certain preparations that would help him in the final fight.

Bastilla was the only person who was directly aided by the power of the Star Forge during her fight with TPK Revan. TPK Revan was too powerful for her to handle by herself.

But in case of the final fight, Malak only used the Star Forge to put those Jedi in Stasis Form, so that he could Drain there energies by himself, when necessary. Star Forgr itself was never replenishing his energies.

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
He fought Revan and Revan only. He used stasis field on Bastila and Carth.
Firstly, He successfully countered Carth's blaster fire and gave him a nice Force based punishment in return.

Then he decided to deal with Revan alone and he instantly Force Stunned Bastilla and Carth.

And Revan and Malak than fought and Malak was about to defeat him in the end when Bastilla struck at the right time.

Malak countered her move too and she decided to sacrifice herself to let Revan and Carth escape.

In all, Malak indeed had fought against those 3 people. But he was powerful enough to make things work in his way.

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
She did that as a act of distraction. I doubt Revan would of lost that battle against Malak.
Really? you need to get your eyes checked than!

Revan was Force Stunned by Malak and in such a state he was 100% vulerable to any attack from Malak and Malak would have sliced him in to two, if Bastilla has not struck Malak at the right time.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Those jedi werent "The most powerful" of that time simply because they havnt done anything impressive.
You forgot to note that those Jedi Masters were battle-hardened and experienced.

Kavar was specially the battle-master of his age and was among the greatest swordsmen in his time.

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
Kavar lost to malak and malak is only half of what sidious it,
Who told you that Malak is only 50% of Sidious? Can you provide me any evidence to support your assertion?

I will not call someone who is stated to wield devastating Dark Side power as only 50% of Sidious.

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
Sidious will rape kreia and badly
I will not be surpised if Kriea instakills his sorry @ss even before the fight begins!

That explains it, alot but as i said, He wouldnt be as strong as he was on the SF had he been some where else. On the SF he has all the resources to back him up, Would he have them at lets say if he fought bane on vjun? Doubt it


And the simple point i was trying to make is like what iv been saying, He isnt so powerful in other areas

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who says that Malak was not handling Revan on leviathan? He alone managed to put up a decent fight against 3 powerful and vastly experienced warriors and Revan was one of them. In the end, Bastilla had to sacrifice herself to save Revan and Carth from the possibility of destruction and defeat.

You under-rate Malak too much.


Malak deflected carths blaster fire, hell yea thats impressive, stunned bastila, very impressive
If malak is so great, why would he even need to stun revan in the first place and before that force push him so malak can flee.
We have no idea how it fared but from what iv seen i doubt he actually "handled" revan until he stunned him

I will not be surpised if Kriea instakills his sorry @ss even before the fight begins! Now why i am not suprised you said this? You obviously are unhappy that sidious > kreia canonically and ohh yea just because it worked on a few jedi who has yet to do anything impressive?

But would it worked on some one more powerful than her? Hell no and kavar did say he lost to malak in a saber duel(i may be wrong)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Who told you that Malak is only 50% of Sidious? Can you provide me any evidence to support your assertion?

I will not call someone who is stated to wield devastating Dark Side power as only 50% of Sidious.

: Right and sidious beats malak in every aspect of the force.

Originally posted by Manslayer
That explains it, alot but as i said, He wouldnt be as strong as he was on the SF had he been some where else. On the SF he has all the resources to back him up, Would he have them at lets say if he fought bane on vjun? Doubt it
I agree with this assertion. But remember that Malak himself also had become more powerful then he ever was before by the end of JCW.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And the simple point i was trying to make is like what iv been saying, He isnt so powerful in other areas
I agree that he is not nearly unstoppable in other areas.

But he is still very powerful even without the support of Star Forge and he is among the KOTOR elites.

Originally posted by Manslayer
If malak is so great, why would he even need to stun revan in the first
Firstly, you need to note that to Force Stun a person as powerful as Revan is itself a great feat to acknowledge. And then after the opponent is stunned or held in stasis condition, that opponent is very easily finish off in such a state.

Originally posted by Manslayer
and before that force push him so malak can flee.
Malak did not Force Pushed Revan. He actually Force Whirlwind him and that too in a place where there was no wind. This was also a noticeable feat. Now, how many people have you seen in Star Wars who could actually dominate Revan in a Force contest like that?

Originally posted by Manslayer
We have no idea how it fared but from what iv seen i doubt he actually "handled" revan until he stunned him
Revan actually dominated the fight from the start but Malak soon turned the tide through his impressive Force Mastery. Though Revan was also a bit emotionally disturbed after the revelation, so that might have limited his focus and Malak took advantage.

Originally posted by Manslayer
I will not be surpised if Kriea instakills his sorry @ss even before the fight begins! Now why i am not suprised you said this? You obviously are unhappy that sidious > kreia canonically and ohh yea just because it worked on a few jedi who has yet to do anything impressive?
I do consider Sidious to be the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the Star Wars but the problem is that the most powerful person does not wins in all the situations, in a duel. Want to see some examples?

- Revan vs Malak on Leviathan (Malak won)
- Sidious vs Mace Windu (Windu got the edge)
- Maul vs Obi-Wan (Kenobi won)

And instakill is a very deadly sith technique. We do not know that how it can be countered.

In this fight (Traya vs Sidious): Timing of an attack will decide the true victor.

Originally posted by Manslayer
But would it worked on some one more powerful than her? Hell no
She decimated 3 powerful Jedi masters with it. What else do you want to see?

The combined power of those 3 Jedi Masters > Jedi Exile

Now you can imagine.

Originally posted by Manslayer
and kavar did say he lost to malak in a saber duel(i may be wrong)
I won't be surprised that if Kavar lost to someone as powerful and aggressive as Malak. We do not know much about this fight apart from the news that Malak totally dominated Kavar in that fight and Kavar had to flee for his life.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right and sidious beats malak in every aspect of the force.
I agree.

But when the word "Sidious" is used in a SW related subject, we refer to a person, who is > all the Sith Lords before him. So this does not surprise me!

Originally posted by Manslayer
And for what reason must malak stun revan?

z0mg, why did Traya instakill those three Jedi masters?

z0mg, why did Count Dooku use Force lightning on Anakin Skywalker?

z0mg, why did Darth Sidious use Force lightning on Yoda?

The fact that he used a Force power is largely irrelevant in regards to how the match went, as in most cases, this means little to jack shit (and since there's no evidence to supports your position (that Malak was getting curbstomped) one can only assume that it isn't the case). But, I noticed that instead of merely saying "u r rite, advent", you have to make an argument.

Why? Saying that Revan "beat Malak no sweat" isn't even logical, based on the evidence, and reasoning presented, much less dialogue and actions in the source material.



Which is also unsupported. If he was dominating the match as you so clearly stated, then this shouldn't have even happened. Even assuming that it did, there'd be no reason to not wait for the effects to wear off, and then destroy Malak.



"But ill concede"? You act as if you had a choice to begin with, your claim was blatant bullshit!



Definitely not.

There's only a few select individuals (Gideon, AcStyles, LS, Nai, and myself) who even possess capable reasoning skills. The rest are either quasi intellectuals, or plain morons.



I've already reviewed nearly every single line from days past, so I've already seen such things.

So, because they believed X capable of kicking the ever living shit out of Y, they're not more intelligent, use more logic, etc? Because you say so? Don't be ridiculous, Manslayer. One single member of the Antediluvians was able to make a post that was much, much more sound and logical than half the people on this board now combined.

It doesn't matter who they believed to be the greatest (as there wasn't as many sources floating around back then as there is now), because when looking at who won the arguments, they did. It doesn't matter if they're wrong now, because they could make better arguments then. It's that simple.

Anyways, I'm done. This is irrelevant to the point, and off-topic.



Nonsense, he's clearly saying that in regards to their overall encounter, as he continually says the same thing (and includes "us", not "Revan", and to Bastila as well when she goes to confront him in Revan's stead.

The fact is, it's not that what Carth says is absolute or 100% correct, it's the matter that it speaks to the contrary (that Revan "beat Malak, no sweat".



Except Carth clearly believes he is, as does Bastila. Otherwise her sacrifice would've been needless. Ergo, it speaks contrary to your ridiculous assertion.

Using your nitpicking that passes for logic, I could say ask you why Bastila didn't simply hold off Malak, wait for Revan, and kill him? That would, after all, be the most logical route. He didn't really need to leave the ship if what you're saying was true.

The fact is, it's not that what Carth says is absolute or 100% correct, it's the matter that it speaks to the contrary (that Revan "beat Malak, no sweat".



See above; this means jack shit.

Advent is right. And as I remember the battle between Revan and Malak in the Star Forge was described as an epic one. Therefore we can guess Revan did have a hard time defeating him.

P.s. If someone knows the source, please help me out here, because I'm sure there is one.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD



Malak did not Force Pushed Revan. He actually Force Whirlwind him and that too in a place where there was no wind. This was also a noticeable feat. Now, how many people have you seen in Star Wars who could actually dominate Revan in a Force contest like that?
Dominate? Are you trying to make me laugh? Malak lands a 2 force attacks = to malak dominating revan? Wow thats pretty good logic friend.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Revan actually dominated the fight from the start but Malak soon turned the tide through his impressive Force Mastery. Though Revan was also a bit emotionally disturbed after the revelation, so that might have limited his focus and Malak took advantage.


Its possible
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I do consider Sidious to be the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the Star Wars but the problem is that the most powerful person does not wins in all the situations, in a duel. Want to see some examples? No, its what sidious can do to make him win
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Revan vs Malak on Leviathan (Malak won) Malak just stunned revan and you yourself said he could be disturbed emotionally after the revelation which gave malak the advantage

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Sidious vs Mace Windu (Windu got the edge)
Vaapad, And strength in the force doesnt necessarily mean good in a saber duel, Despite not fighting for 13 years him being able to slay 3 of the elites is impressive and if you read NJO, luke whos the force god couldnt kill lord nyax in a saber duel

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Maul vs Obi-Wan (Kenobi won)
Maul underestimated him period as anakin did to obi wan
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And instakill is a very deadly sith technique. We do not know that how it can be countered. Big deal its a simple force drain which kreia mastered, Force shield shall i say? Oh and who knows weather it will work on sidious since he is much greater than kreia in power.
By your assumption i might as well say vader executes force crush before sidious and thus vader wins
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

In this fight (Traya vs Sidious): Timing of an attack will decide the true victor. Not really since its unproven weather the force drain will instantly kill sidious. Sidious lightning turned 3 acolytes to ashes yet his lightning couldnt kill mace windu a high level jedi master as fast as he did to those acolytes and storm troopers

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

She decimated 3 powerful Jedi masters with it. What else do you want to see? They werent "Powerful" Vrook and zez hasnt done anything impressive while kavar is a superb lightsaber duelist who got bested by malak as he claimed.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The combined power of those 3 Jedi Masters > Jedi Exile
If you chose the alternate path which isnt canon, the exile took all of them down showing the exile is capable of good strength, Again they werent powerful

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I won't be surprised that if Kavar lost to someone as powerful and aggressive as Malak. We do not know much about this fight apart from the news that Malak totally dominated Kavar in that fight and Kavar had to flee for his life. Malak > kavar and sidious > malak. I doubt kreias drain will work on sidious

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I agree with this assertion. But remember that Malak himself also had become more powerful then he ever was before by the end of JCW.


I agree that he is not nearly unstoppable in other areas.

But he is still very powerful even without the support of Star Forge and he is among the KOTOR elites. He is stoppable by a stronger force user than him outside the starforge period

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sidious lightning turned 3 acolytes to ashes yet his lightning couldnt kill mace windu a high level jedi master as fast as he did to those acolytes and storm troopers

You do realize that, of course, the time line for these events makes your comparison faulty? Darth Sidious' power in the aforementioned displays of Force lightning came twenty years after Revenge of the Sith. His strength in the Force has grown vastly since.

I thought he destroyed those 3 acolytes shortly after ROTS, when he was testing Vader's abilities.

Yes, and that was the Malak I was referring to, ignoramus. Do you agree that that version of Malak is more than 50% of Sidious?

Okay, now I'll tell youe dumbshit mind something - I was referring to Malak in his prime. Malak in his prime = Star Forge Powered Malak, so your fvcking metaphor doesn't mean shit. It only proves your incapability to read.

No, I never said that, show me where I said that, dipshit. Looks like your having bad reading comprehension again. Show me where I defied canon. Oh wait, you can't? You must be a total dumbass then for trying to say that I did. I said I hope he proves that ROTS Sidious isn't the strongest Sith. I never said that I want Traya to be above Sidious, however, on the contrary:



You were saying?


Nope, which is why I hope that Glentract wins, However, not liking canon and defying canon aren't the same thing. One can not like something and still except it, dipshit.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I thought he destroyed those 3 acolytes shortly after ROTS, when he was testing Vader's abilities.

Well, you thought wrong then. Resurrection takes place in 0 BBY.

This is Advent's way of saying that our love is still passionate.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Dominate? Are you trying to make me laugh? Malak lands a 2 force attacks = to malak dominating revan? Wow thats pretty good logic friend.
You should note that Malak only used two kinds of Force attacks on Revan.

A) Force Whirlwind
B) Force Stun

Now when both of these attacks were launched, Revan failed to counter these Force moves and became a victim twice.

Now what will you call this? A success of Revan?

As it is mentioned in a source, Malak was said to wield devastating Dark Side power, which means that he was strong in the Force and his Force Mastery was indeed impressive.

Originally posted by Manslayer
No, its what sidious can do to make him win
Being more powerful is not enough to give you victory in all kinds of situations. You have to make an effort and some other factors are also involved.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak just stunned revan and you yourself said he could be disturbed emotionally after the revelation which gave malak the advantage
I believe that Revan was indeed disturbed by the revelation and that limited his focus but this does not means that he willingly lost to Malak and did not tried hard enough. He wanted to teach Malak a lesson but the scenario turned out to be the opposite.

Just remember that what happened during Vader vs Obi-Wan scenario in the Mustafar. Vader despite being better lost because of not thinking clearly or being emotionally disturbed. Still Vader tried hard against Obi-Wan. So Revan's case might be similar to that of Vader during his fight on Leviathan against the Dark Lord.

But Malak remained focused and managed to over-power Revan in the end.

And "Malak just stunned Revan" is the lamest comment, I have yet read in this thread. You make it sound like that every Tom, Dick and harry can stun Revan in a single combat?

Think about it! What level of Force Mastery would be required to overpower a person (who is considered to be the single greatest warrior of his age)? This is why I believe that Malak is among the elites of KOTOR period because he is capable of performing impressive feats at the right time. Only a little focus is required to understand them.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Vaapad, And strength in the force doesnt necessarily mean good in a saber duel, Despite not fighting for 13 years him being able to slay 3 of the elites is impressive and if you read NJO, luke whos the force god couldnt kill lord nyax in a saber duel
These are the details that I know. But the thing is that Vaapad was enough to stop Sidious. Now just think that why would instakill be not enough to stop Sidious?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Maul underestimated him period as anakin did to obi wan
I know the details but it was a single Force move that enabled Obi-Wan to surprise attack Maul and Maul was decimated.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Big deal its a simple force drain which kreia mastered, Force shield shall i say? Oh and who knows weather it will work on sidious since he is much greater than kreia in power.
Instakill is not a simple Force Drain. First, correct your knowledge.

And a Force Drain technique can work against anybody unless the defender knows how to defend against it.

Originally posted by Manslayer
By your assumption i might as well say vader executes force crush before sidious and thus vader wins
Force Crush is an application of the Force that can be countered by some defensive abilities.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Not really since its unproven weather the force drain will instantly kill sidious. Sidious lightning turned 3 acolytes to ashes yet his lightning couldnt kill mace windu a high level jedi master as fast as he did to those acolytes and storm troopers
If instakill will not instantly kill Sidious, and I would like to believe this because Sidious is very powerful. It will definately weaken him considerably. Sidious will used his impressive speed to quickly overwhelm Traya, if he gets close enough. Or his powerful Force Lightning will do the trick. But still Traya can execute an attack very quickly as well. She is not ordinary by any means. So it depends upon who hits who first in this fight.

It is more like a 60/40 ratio. Sidious has 60 percent chances of success and Traya has 40 percent. This is just a guess however.

Originally posted by Manslayer
They werent "Powerful" Vrook and zez hasnt done anything impressive while kavar is a superb lightsaber duelist who got bested by malak as he claimed.
Vrook was able to tolerate the initial deadly attack to a certain extent, so he was not weak.

And Malak is among the top duelists of his time. Ask Drew, if you have any doubts.

Originally posted by Manslayer
If you chose the alternate path which isnt canon, the exile took all of them down showing the exile is capable of good strength, Again they werent powerful
Well! you have a point in this case. But still it takes Exile some effort to defeat them all. Traya however destroyed them instantly with a single Force move. Just notice the difference.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak > kavar and sidious > malak. I doubt kreias drain will work on sidious
No matter how powerful a person can be, it does not makes him immune or invincible to powerful Force attacks. Just remember that Sidious is not invincible, like some people would like to portray him.

Which Sidious is this, anyways?

Originally posted by Gideon
Which Sidious is this, anyways?
It was never actually stated, but I think we can assume that it's ROTS Sidious as, obviously, DE Sidious would pwn Traya and no case for Traya could even be made.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is Advent's way of saying that our love is still passionate.

Advent always forgets me. But that's ok, when you look this good, people tend to forget perfection.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Advent always forgets me. But that's ok, when you look this good, people tend to forget perfection.

Lmao, you bastard. Advent and I are in love.

That's ok, but me not being included in the select few who have some reasoning skills, makes me think Advent wants what she can't have. Actually I don't care, I look better than all of you. Did I ever know that I'm your hero? I'm everything you wish you could be. I could fly higher than an eagle. Because I am the wind beneath your wings..

you're also the wind beneath my wings...oh wait, thats just a lingering fart.

I think most have forgotten on this thread that it's TRAYA Vs Sidious, not Malak VS Sidious. Regardless, since we know little to nothing of Traya besides she can do an 'instakill' that was only seen once in the game, how do we know she can pull it out any time she wants to? And for all we know, Sidious may have learned enough to block it, which given how the ROTS novel and NEC state he's the most powerful Sith ever, it might be possible.

I'm going with Sidious on this one. We don't really know how strong Vrook, Kavar or Zez was, besides claims that 'he was the best duelist of his time', which we have yet to see a source showing that exact quote, and that he was 'bested by Malak', who I'd surely put below Sidious, especially since he didn't have the power of the SF at his disposal during the time he supposedly 'defeated' Kavar.

Where as we have information that the PT was 'The Prime of the Jedi', more than likely meaning that they were more powerful than the Jedi of KOTOR's time, and that the 3 masters Palpatine OWNed were remarked as 'the best of their time' in the ROTS novel. Plus he went without 13 years of saber practice and was able to defeat them in a matter of seconds.

Either way, since we don't have enough info on Kreia or the KOTOR Masters and actually have info on Sidious and the 3 PT Masters, I'd give this match to Sidious, for now, unless some other canon source comes along to dictate otherwise.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's ok, but me not being included in the select few who have some reasoning skills, makes me think Advent wants what she can't have. Actually I don't care, I look better than all of you. Did I ever know that I'm your hero? I'm everything you wish you could be. I could fly higher than an eagle. Because I am the wind beneath your wings..

Lay off the LSD.

just stating facts Escape. Jealousy is an ugly and irrational emotion.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
just stating facts Escape. Jealousy is an ugly and irrational emotion.

She chose me, not you, ya punk.

Originally posted by Gideon
Which Sidious is this, anyways?

Sorry to state this earlier, ROTJ.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yes, and that was the Malak I was referring to, ignoramus. Do you agree that that version of Malak is more than 50% of Sidious?
Agreed then

Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay, now I'll tell youe dumbshit mind something - I was referring to Malak in his prime. Malak in his prime = Star Forge Powered Malak, so your fvcking metaphor doesn't mean shit. It only proves your incapability to read. Dimbshit. malak in his prime = on the star forge when he has back up and resources. Malak anywhere else = a different thing, He wouldnt be as strong.

Dumbshit
Originally posted by darthsith19

No, I never said that, show me where I said that, dipshit. Looks like your having bad reading comprehension again. Show me where I defied canon. Oh wait, you can't? You must be a total dumbass then for trying to say that I did. I said I hope he proves that ROTS Sidious isn't the strongest Sith. I never said that I want Traya to be above Sidious, however, on the contrary:



Well then you blatantly are being a dumbass, If you actually think sidious would beat kreia and yet you want glentract to win an argueent of kreia > sidious Then you ARE indeed a moron

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You should note that Malak only used two kinds of Force attacks on Revan. Which doesnt mean he "dominated" revan as you were fond of speaking off


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Now when both of these attacks were launched, Revan failed to counter these Force moves and became a victim twice.
So? That didnt mean he got "Dominated". Being dominated is when your opponent keeps attacking you relentlessly and all you can do is defend and not even fight back which in this case revan did, Revan DID put up a fight.

I dont understand you legend, You ALWAYS argue things which are irrelevant and off topic




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

As it is mentioned in a source, Malak was said to wield devastating Dark Side power, which means that he was strong in the Force and his Force Mastery was indeed impressive. So? I never denied he was strong in the force but one thing i dont like is your are severely overrating malak, You once even said revan and malak can take down the most powerful incarnation of luke and yougot your ass handed to you by 4 people, Advent, gideon, darth sexy and lightsnake

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Being more powerful is not enough to give you victory in all kinds of situations. You have to make an effort and some other factors are also involved. Right while sidious is clearly more brilliant in a fight situation compared to kreia and again prove the force drain will kill sidious

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I believe that Revan was indeed disturbed by the revelation and that limited his focus but this does not means that he willingly lost to Malak and did not tried hard enough. He wanted to teach Malak a lesson but the scenario turned out to be the opposite. I never said he willingly lost. Revans goal was to escape the ship. Not kill malak. malak bumping into him surly suprised him
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Just remember that what happened during Vader vs Obi-Wan scenario in the Mustafar. Vader despite being better lost because of not thinking clearly or being emotionally disturbed. Still Vader tried hard against Obi-Wan. So Revan's case might be similar to that of Vader during his fight on Leviathan against the Dark Lord. Problably
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

But Malak remained focused and managed to over-power Revan in the end. Over power? Seriously legend, Landing a force attack = to revan getting over powered? You seriously make me laugh.

Dorak already stated revan is far ahead than malak in lightsaber skills
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And "Malak just stunned Revan" is the lamest comment, I have yet read in this thread. You make it sound like that every Tom, Dick and harry can stun Revan in a single combat? Which is exactly what malak did sadly. Your comments are hilarious. "1force attack landed = you dominate your opponent"
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Think about it! What level of Force Mastery would be required to overpower a person (who is considered to be the single greatest warrior of his age)? This is why I believe that Malak is among the elites of KOTOR period because he is capable of performing impressive feats at the right time. Only a little focus is required to understand them. Sorry. Malak hasnt done anything impressive, if its stunning revan with stasis exar kun did it better, on a hundred thousand people. Hardly anything he did in kotor is impressive

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

These are the details that I know. But the thing is that Vaapad was enough to stop Sidious. Now just think that why would instakill be not enough to stop Sidious? Vaapad and force drain are 2 different things

By the way kreias "insta kill" isnt disputed as an insta kill because she used it on inferior jedi masters who had either no resistence or no defence and mind you sidious has very high resistence in the force, higher than any sith due to him being the strongest


Vaapad is a form which reflects the opponents hate and power against him

Force drain merely drains your opponent

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I know the details but it was a single Force move that enabled Obi-Wan to surprise attack Maul and Maul was decimated.
Right and it is all because maul never took obi wan seriously
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Instakill is not a simple Force Drain. First, correct your knowledge. It is. if you actually bothered to pay attention when you examine the jedis body it said they were drained of life while the "insta" kill is also animated in a force drain motion


While wookiepedia whom you love to use also states her "insta kill" is a force drain and by the way it said "Quickly kill its enemies" It wasnt an insta kill because it took a few seconds for their lives to be sucked out completely
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And a Force Drain technique can work against anybody unless the defender knows how to defend against it. Which is precisely what kreias attack is.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force Crush is an application of the Force that can be countered by some defensive abilities. Well you said timing of the attack is critical. I merely argued against you using your own logic.

Defensive abilities right? Sure, same thing will happen is sidious uses his defence against traya's "Insta kill"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

If instakill will not instantly kill Sidious, and I would like to believe this because Sidious is very powerful. It will definately weaken him considerably. Sidious will used his impressive speed to quickly overwhelm Traya, if he gets close enough. Or his powerful Force Lightning will do the trick. But still Traya can execute an attack very quickly as well. She is not ordinary by any means. So it depends upon who hits who first in this fight. Your actually assuming traya gets to hit him with the force drain and even if she does sidious will resist it due to his strength in the force or throw up a force shield before hand since sidious would be able to fore see her attacks. I doubt kreia would fore see sidious attacks since he used the dark side to cloud the entire jedi councils sensing of who sidious is




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Vrook was able to tolerate the initial deadly attack to a certain extent, so he was not weak. Then it is not an insta kill. Insta kill = you die the moment the attack makes contact with you. Like lukes emerald lightning. And vrook, hasnt done anything impressive sadly and again, The drain isnt an insta kill as the cut scene depicted
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Malak is among the top duelists of his time. Ask Drew, if you have any doubts.
Above revan? And drews opinion isnt canon until approved by officials
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Well! you have a point in this case. But still it takes Exile some effort to defeat them all. Traya however destroyed them instantly with a single Force move. Just notice the difference.
And here you blatantly contradict yourself, First you ramble about how they died with one hit, Then you told me vrook took a few seconds to die after getting hit. Then again i just refuted your assumption of trayas "Insta kill"


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No matter how powerful a person can be, it does not makes him immune or invincible to powerful Force attacks. Just remember that Sidious is not invincible, like some people would like to portray him. And just because traya has force drain, it also doesnt mean she would take down some one of a higher level than she is

Originally posted by Advent
You do realize that, of course, the time line for these events makes your comparison faulty? Darth Sidious' power in the aforementioned displays of Force lightning came twenty years after Revenge of the Sith. His strength in the Force has grown vastly since. Thank you for saying this.

Now atleast dumbshit (darthsith) would realise simple commonsense sense

Originally posted by Manslayer
Which doesnt mean he "dominated" revan as you were fond of speaking off
He dominated him only in the case of Force contest, but not in over-all fight.

Originally posted by Manslayer
So? That didnt mean he got "Dominated". Being dominated is when your opponent keeps attacking you relentlessly and all you can do is defend and not even fight back which in this case revan did, Revan DID put up a fight.
When did I said that Revan was dominated by Malak in the entire fight?

Check this line: "Revan actually dominated the fight from the start but Malak soon turned the tide through his impressive Force Mastery."

And then I even provided the reason that why this happened and hence I mentioned this "Though Revan was also a bit emotionally disturbed after the revelation, so that might have limited his focus and Malak took advantage."

But the point is that Revan did failed and was about to be killed by Malak, but a timely interference from Bastilla saved him.

The problem is that you have not yet grabbed the whole picture of that fight.

Originally posted by Manslayer
I dont understand you legend, You ALWAYS argue things which are irrelevant and off topic
I am replying to your theories and nothing else. There is no irrelevancy in my argument.

Originally posted by Manslayer
So? I never denied he was strong in the force but one thing i dont like is your are severely overrating malak,
I do not over-rate Malak. I however do recognize his feats very well though. The problem is that you under-rate Malak too much and give baseless theories regarding his power.

Originally posted by Manslayer
You once even said revan and malak can take down the most powerful incarnation of luke and yougot your ass handed to you by 4 people, Advent, gideon, darth sexy and lightsnake
That was a debate on the subject of Force Lightning. Seriously, get your eyes checked.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right while sidious is clearly more brilliant in a fight situation compared to kreia and again prove the force drain will kill sidious
Do you think that Sidious is invincible?

Originally posted by Manslayer
I never said he willingly lost. Revans goal was to escape the ship. Not kill malak. malak bumping into him surly suprised him
Problably
Another sign of ignorance from you!

Bastilla Shan could sense Malak's presence and she knew that Malak was coming but Revan shrugged her fears off and wanted to confront Malak. His wish however soon came true when Malak stopped the team, which was on it's way to the hanger. Thus, Revan's goal was not just limited to escaping the ship.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Over power? Seriously legend, Landing a force attack = to revan getting over powered? You seriously make me laugh.
Landing a Force attack on Revan is not getting over-powered.

But if that Force attack penetrates Revan's defenses and Revan is fully effected by the attack. Then this is over-powering and this logic applies to all the people in Star Wars and not just Revan.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Dorak already stated revan is far ahead than malak in lightsaber skills
Which is exactly what malak did sadly. Your comments are hilarious. "1force attack landed = you dominate your opponent"
Dorak never said anything like that. He however did said that "Revan was stronger among the pair".

Originally posted by Manslayer
Sorry. Malak hasnt done anything impressive,
This line shows your level of ignorance.

- Malak once defeated Revan in a duel on the Leviathan. Yeah! he has not done anything impressive?

- Malak was declared to be a War Hero like Revan because of his impressive feats in the Mando Wars. Yeah! he has not done anything impressive?

- Malak became nearly unstoppable at the end of the JCW. But yeah! he has not done anything impressive?

- Malak destroyed the two Jedi Knights in front of the eyes of Revan and yet Revan despite being "the single greatest warrior of his age" could not save them. Yeah! Malak has not done anything impressive?

- Malak managed to break the will of a strong and promising Jedi called "Bastilla Shan" and turned her to the dark side. Yeah! he has not done anything impressive

- When Duron Qel Droma saw visions of Malak. He got very scared by the display of power that Malak had unleashed. Yeah! Malak has not done anything impressive

Get out of this Malak sucks syndrome.

Originally posted by Manslayer
if its stunning revan with stasis exar kun did it better, on a hundred thousand people. Hardly anything he did in kotor is impressive
Exar Kun was a very powerful Sith Lord but he stunned thousands of ordinary people in the senate. Now ordinary people cannot counter a Force based move.

Revan can counter a Force based move? Can he not?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Vaapad and force drain are 2 different things
They are both highly effective against Force Users and this is what really matters.

Originally posted by Manslayer
By the way kreias "insta kill" isnt disputed as an insta kill because she used it on inferior jedi masters who had either no resistence or no defence and mind you sidious has very high resistence in the force, higher than any sith due to him being the strongest
This is why I said that I believe that Sidious will be able to tolerate an instakill attack but that will still weaken him, unless instakill can be successfully countered.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Vaapad is a form which reflects the opponents hate and power against him
I know this.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Force drain merely drains your opponent
Force Drain steals the life force of any living thing.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Right and it is all because maul never took obi wan seriously
It is.
Did I asked you to provide me reasons? I know them all but the fact is that Maul lost in the end.

Originally posted by Manslayer
if you actually bothered to pay attention when you examine the jedis body it said they were drained of life while the "insta" kill is also animated in a force drain motion
And the fact of the day is that instakill is also a Force Drain technique.

Originally posted by Manslayer
While wookiepedia whom you love to use also states her "insta kill" is a force drain and by the way it said "Quickly kill its enemies" It wasnt an insta kill because it took a few seconds for their lives to be sucked out completely
Few seconds can make a lot of difference in a fight.

When Sidious attacked Yoda in the senate. Yoda was over-whelmed by the attack because the attack happened so quickly that he did not got sufficient time to react.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Well you said timing of the attack is critical. I merely argued against you using your own logic.
What is the point here?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Defensive abilities right? Sure, same thing will happen is sidious uses his defence against traya's "Insta kill"
What defensive abilities can stop instakill attack?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Your actually assuming traya gets to hit him with the force drain and even if she does sidious will resist it due to his strength in the force or throw up a force shield before hand since sidious would be able to fore see her attacks.
How can a Force Shield protect you from an instakill attack?

Originally posted by Manslayer
I doubt kreia would fore see sidious attacks since he used the dark side to cloud the entire jedi councils sensing of who sidious is
This is about precognition.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Then it is not an insta kill. Insta kill = you die the moment the attack makes contact with you. Like lukes emerald lightning. And vrook, hasnt done anything impressive sadly and again, The drain isnt an insta kill as the cut scene depicted
Show me the cut scene then!

Originally posted by Manslayer
Above revan? And drews opinion isnt canon until approved by officials
And here you blatantly contradict yourself,
Did I said anything like that? Get your eys checked!

Originally posted by Manslayer
First you ramble about how they died with one hit, Then you told me vrook took a few seconds to die after getting hit. Then again i just refuted your assumption of trayas "Insta kill"
You are just mentioning things but have not yet been proved by you. Show me that scene in which Traya drains those Jedi Masters and then I draw a conclusion.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And just because traya has force drain, it also doesnt mean she would take down some one of a higher level than she is
Her instakill ability does provides her a chance.

Legend i deleted the other half of your "Replies" Due to them being irrelevant to this topic we are argueing


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


That was a debate on the subject of Force Lightning. Seriously, get your eyes checked. Not just that. You tried to argue that malak and revan CAN take down luke too.




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Landing a Force attack on Revan is not getting over-powered.
You just said revan got overpowered and yet you never said how



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

But if that Force attack penetrates Revan's defenses and Revan is fully effected by the attack. Then this is over-powering and this logic applies to all the people in Star Wars and not just Revan. Yet revan didnt throw a defence to the force stun



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD



- Malak once defeated Revan in a duel on the Leviathan. Yeah! he has not done anything impressive?
Actually, revan was the better duelist and malak stunned revan and was about to strike him down, It sure is impressive

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Malak was declared to be a War Hero like Revan because of his impressive feats in the Mando Wars. Yeah! he has not done anything impressive? Lol war hero as in aiding revan against the mandalorians. And become a "war hero" doesnt mean you became one using the force, I am very impressed
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Malak became nearly unstoppable at the end of the JCW. But yeah! he has not done anything impressive?
Lol due to him being able to replenish his energies on the star forge yet getting constantly beaten by his former friend, sure is impresside

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Malak destroyed the two Jedi Knights in front of the eyes of Revan and yet Revan despite being "the single greatest warrior of his age" could not save them. Yeah! Malak has not done anything impressive? Lol killing an already dying jedi sure is impressive and killing another with a lightsaber is also sure impressive
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- Malak managed to break the will of a strong and promising Jedi called "Bastilla Shan" and turned her to the dark side. Yeah! he has not done anything impressive Lol turning bastila to the dark side with words but not with the force, sure is impressive
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

- When Duron Qel Droma saw visions of Malak. He got very scared by the display of power that Malak had unleashed. Yeah! Malak has not done anything impressive
Lol at what power malak unleashed? On who? On what?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Get out of this Malak sucks syndrome. I will if you stop potraying malak as a god

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Exar Kun was a very powerful Sith Lord but he stunned thousands of ordinary people in the senate. Now ordinary people cannot counter a Force based move. Hmm i was merely pointing out if malak could stun revan and thats impressive as you would claim then what exar kun has done surely must put him above all other sith lords right? Wrong. I was pointing malak stunning a jedi who did not throw up a defence isnt "impressive"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan can counter a Force based move? Can he not?
Thank you for backing me up, Revan didnt throw up a defence nor was prepared for malaks stun, you lose again

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They are both highly effective against Force Users and this is what really matters.
And what matters is the victims resistence
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

This is why I said that I believe that Sidious will be able to tolerate an instakill attack but that will still weaken him, unless instakill can be successfully countered.
Again it isnt an insta kill until proven that it is, Prove to me it was an insta kill because i might as well said exar kuns force grip killed a powerful jedi is also an insta kill but guess what? It quickly killed them, Not instantly killed them. And they were inferior jedis who have yet to do anything impressive

Darth Traya was a master of this insidious power and used it to quickly kill her enemies

^ your good friend wookiepedia states this? Notice it doesnt say insta kill but quickly kill? It may be a insta kill to weak force users but certeinly not to a mediocore force user

Again this came from the force drain page and she used it against jedis who are below average seeing that the exile is stated to be average and she takes them down if you go an alternate path



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force Drain steals the life force of any living thing.
Which is precisely what kreia did as various sources pointed out, You examine the bodies and it says drained of life




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And the fact of the day is that instakill is also a Force Drain technique. So now you DO agree it is a force drain. Guess what palpatine as of ROTJ has this technique as FOC proved and this traya vs sidious is ROTJ sidious so if its an insta kill as you say which it isnt, Sidious would likely use against her. Point moot


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

When Sidious attacked Yoda in the senate. Yoda was over-whelmed by the attack because the attack happened so quickly that he did not got sufficient time to react. And had that been a normal jedi, he would have been friend which also concludes the drain may only damage sidious by a little and where sidious can get it back by also replicating the same attack that kreia did




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

What defensive abilities can stop instakill attack?
Again its a force drain and POD stated that force shields can bend the force attack away thus protecting the victim. Sidious has this technique
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

How can a Force Shield protect you from an instakill attack?
Simple, it blocks out the attack from touching you



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Show me the cut scene then!
Then its obvious you never played kotor 2 or either that you are forgetful. Lets see, they ran to kreia and she struck them down with force drain which is the orange lightning thing which is indeed force drain
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Did I said anything like that? Get your eys checked!
You did before but thats in the past so ill drop it
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You are just mentioning things but have not yet been proved by you. Show me that scene in which Traya drains those Jedi Masters and then I draw a conclusion.
Omg did you even play kotor 2? http://youtube.com/watch?v=X8lFOfJd8uE Heres the video then. There you got your ass handed to you
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Her ability does provides her a chance. Nope, As the videos showed it took 5 seconds to kill them and again they were jedi who were just around average jedis since they never did anything impressive


Legend though this is off topic ill bet you will like this video. Its the trailer for the kotor2 restoration of cut content http://youtube.com/watch?v=IjTw8qexs8c&mode=related&search=

There you c an see nnihilus lifting exile and visas at the same time and you have an option to join nihilus

Originally posted by Manslayer
Not just that. You tried to argue that malak and revan CAN take down luke too.
During a duel in LOTF, a single distraction gave Lumiya a chance to harm Luke.

Now when the duo of Revan and Malak will face him, will he not get distracted by the other when he goes for one of them?

Just remember that Star Wars is a dynamic world and not static one in which the most powerful cannot be stopped.

Originally posted by Manslayer
You just said revan got overpowered and yet you never said how
Oh God?

Malak over-powered Revan with the Force.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Yet revan didnt throw a defence to the force stun
How do you know this?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Actually, revan was the better duelist and malak stunned revan and was about to strike him down, It sure is impressive
And Malak got the upperhand in the end, didn't he?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol war hero as in aiding revan against the mandalorians. And become a "war hero" doesnt mean you became one using the force, I am very impressed
Malak had done something to be declared as a "War Hero", don't you think? He would recklessly charge in to dangerous fights and still win. Malak and Revan together turned the tide of the Mando wars. Check Malak's profile in "SW Databank" for more information.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol due to him being able to replenish his energies on the star forge yet getting constantly beaten by his former friend, sure is impresside
When you will face a person who is said to be the "SINGLE GREATEST WARRIOR OF HIS AGE", what will you expect in such a case?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol killing an already dying jedi sure is impressive and killing another with a lightsaber is also sure impressive
Those Jedi were being simultaneously choked by Malak in the first place. They were not dying by natural causes. What Malak did to them was indeed an impressive display of power.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol turning bastila to the dark side with words but not with the force, sure is impressive
Idiot, Malak was torturing her with his Force Lightning. He turned indeed her to the dark side but not by his words.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Lol at what power malak unleashed? On who? On what?
On various Jedi including Bastilla Shan and Revan. Duron's words were "World Dying....Sith so powerful"

Originally posted by Manslayer
I will if you stop potraying malak as a god
Your igorance is not going to change my view. I give credit to Malak where it is due.

Check my list of top 10 most powerful people here: Click!

There are some people who I rank above Malak and this shows that I do not portray him like a God as you said.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Hmm i was merely pointing out if malak could stun revan and thats impressive as you would claim then what exar kun has done surely must put him above all other sith lords right? Wrong. I was pointing malak stunning a jedi who did not throw up a defence isnt "impressive"
A very baseless argument. How can you say that Revan was not trying to defend against Malak's attacks?

And Malak stunned a person who is far more powerful then those defenseless senators. Try again!

Originally posted by Manslayer
Thank you for backing me up, Revan didnt throw up a defence nor was prepared for malaks stun, you lose again
You are delusional actually. I said that Revan is capable enough to counter a Force Move but he still failed to counter the Force moves by Malak on Leviathan.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And what matters is the victims resistence
And Malak penetrated any resistances of his opponents on the leviathan.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Again it isnt an insta kill until proven that it is,
Instakill is the name of her Draining technique. It just indicates that her Drain can quickly kill people even before they can react. But did you noticed the speed with which her Drain hit those Jedi Masters? It hit them in less then 1 second.

You just pwned yourself by showing that video. It proves my point that timing of an attack is what can change the situation in a fight.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Prove to me it was an insta kill because i might as well said exar kuns force grip killed a powerful jedi is also an insta kill but guess what? It quickly killed them, Not instantly killed them. And they were inferior jedis who have yet to do anything impressive
Those Jedi were actually "Jedi Masters" and they were battle-hardened and experienced. You again fail to see a bigger picture here.

And that Drain did made a short work of those Jedi Masters. In less then 1 sec, it hit them and in a total of 5 seconds, they were dead.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Darth Traya was a master of this insidious power and used it to quickly kill her enemies

^ your good friend wookiepedia states this? Notice it doesnt say insta kill but quickly kill? It may be a insta kill to weak force users but certeinly not to a mediocore force user
Traya's drain technique is known as "instakill" and it was not named as such by me. You are arguing over the names of the techniques now.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Again this came from the force drain page and she used it against jedis who are below average seeing that the exile is stated to be average and she takes them down if you go an alternate path
Those Jedi Masters are now below average? This is it!

Now you have truely proven yourself to be fully delusional.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Which is precisely what kreia did as various sources pointed out, You examine the bodies and it says drained of life
And?

Originally posted by Manslayer
So now you DO agree it is a force drain. Guess what palpatine as of ROTJ has this technique as FOC proved and this traya vs sidious is ROTJ sidious so if its an insta kill as you say which it isnt, Sidious would likely use against her. Point moot
Palpatine's draining technique is different from that of Traya. Point not moot.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And had that been a normal jedi, he would have been friend which also concludes the drain may only damage sidious by a little and where sidious can get it back by also replicating the same attack that kreia did
If this is your argument, than I am surely wasting my time.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Again its a force drain and POD stated that force shields can bend the force attack away thus protecting the victim. Sidious has this technique
Simple, it blocks out the attack from touching you
Force Shields can reduce the damage of Force attacks including that of Drain techniques but it doesn not fully protects you from the effects of very powerful Drain techniques.

Remember that Traya once said that "There are some techniques in the Force, for which there is no defence".

Originally posted by Manslayer
Then its obvious you never played kotor 2 or either that you are forgetful. Lets see, they ran to kreia and she struck them down with force drain which is the orange lightning thing which is indeed force drain
She Force Waved them first. And then she drained them in the second attack. Her drain touched them in less then 1 sec and after that, it was game over for those Jedi Masters.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Omg did you even play kotor 2? http://youtube.com/watch?v=X8lFOfJd8uE Heres the video then. There you got your ass handed to you
It does shows that how quickly Traya's Drain can reach her target.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Nope, As the videos showed it took 5 seconds to kill them and again they were jedi who were just around average jedis since they never did anything impressive
It took 4 seconds for them to die. But they were hit in less then 1 sec.

I have already said before that timing of an attack is what can change the situation in a fight.

@ Manslayer

You however deserve a credit for showing that instakill does not instantly kills a victim.

It instantly hits it's intended target though and is still a very deadly technique. Because when it hits a victim, it is already too late.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Legend though this is off topic ill bet you will like this video. Its the trailer for the kotor2 restoration of cut content http://youtube.com/watch?v=IjTw8qexs8c&mode=related&search=

There you c an see nnihilus lifting exile and visas at the same time and you have an option to join nihilus
Very interesting video indeed. That restoration Mod will actually increase the replay value of KOTOR II game and I am eagerly waiting to try this Mod.

Thanks for sharing!

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
During a duel in LOTF, a single distraction gave Lumiya a chance to harm Luke.

Now when the duo of Revan and Malak will face him, will he not get distracted by the other when he goes for one of them?
Note that luke wasnt trying to even harm lumiya and that he wtf pwned her after he thought she killed his wife mara jade Anyways lets drop this, no point argueing
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Just remember that Star Wars is a dynamic world and not static one in which the most powerful cannot be stopped. Well in most cases the strongest does win because a case can be made for him

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Oh God?

Malak over-powered Revan with the Force.
Just by stunning him?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

How do you know this?
Because had revan threw up a defence stun wouldnt have worked and because he got hit aswell. Yoda also didnt throw up a defence to sidious thus he ended up like revan
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Malak got the upperhand in the end, didn't he?
mmhmm
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Malak had done something to be declared as a "War Hero", don't you think? He would recklessly charge in to dangerous fights and still win. Malak and Revan together turned the tide of the Mando wars. Check Malak's profile in "SW Databank" for more information.
That could be referring to military tactis to turn the tide. What malak did in the war with the force is unknown
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

When you will face a person who is said to be the "SINGLE GREATEST WARRIOR OF HIS AGE", what will you expect in such a case?
I thought revan was the single greatest warrior of his age?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those Jedi were being simultaneously choked by Malak in the first place. They were not dying by natural causes. What Malak did to them was indeed an impressive display of power. Well if he was already choking them, It shows that they could not throw up a defence in time and force choke is slowly squeezing the life out of them and making them lose conciousness which makes them totally unprepared and vulnerable to his next attack which is lightning

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Idiot, Malak was torturing her with his Force Lightning. He turned indeed her to the dark side but not by his words.
Legend please keep this civil. Bastila told malak "Do yo u think torture will work on me" Something like that and he replied to her telling he is just showing her a taste of the dark side and at the same time he was tempting her
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

On various Jedi including Bastilla Shan and Revan. Duron's words were "World Dying....Sith so powerful"
Malak is powerful like i said...
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Your igorance is not going to change my view. I give credit to Malak where it is due. ok i drop that, im sorry
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Check my list of top 10 most powerful people here: Click!
Id actually bump some of them off your list and add malak and vader in. What happened to them anyway??

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

There are some people who I rank above Malak and this shows that I do not portray him like a God as you said. Ok im sorry

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

A very baseless argument. How can you say that Revan was not trying to defend against Malak's attacks?
Because we didnt see revan try. So are you also saying that yoda was trying to defend against sidious initial attack?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Malak stunned a person who is far more powerful then those defenseless senators. Try again! Well if kun can spread his attack to stun thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people i think he would rather do it well on one single jedi. Irrelevant to the point so ill drop it here

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You are delusional actually. I said that Revan is capable enough to counter a Force Move but he still failed to counter the Force moves by Malak on Leviathan. Because revan was caught by suprise. As was yoda from sidious

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Malak penetrated any resistances of his opponents on the leviathan. Bastila also didnt expect to get stunned because malak drew out his saber, she was expecting him to strike with the saber. And carth is no force user so he too got stunned


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Instakill is the name of her Draining technique. It just indicates that her Drain can quickly kill people even before they can react. But did you noticed the speed with which her Drain hit those Jedi Masters? It hit them in less then 1 second. If you watched the video it took 5 seconds actually and no it isnt a insta kill. Its a force drain
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You just pwned yourself by showing that video. It proves my point that timing of an attack is what can change the situation in a fight. I didnt. I actually proved it wasnt an insta kill. 5 seconds it took to kill them. While it does prove timing is critical. It doesnt disprove the fact that a powerful force user can resist it

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those Jedi were actually "Jedi Masters" and they were battle-hardened and experienced. You again fail to see a bigger picture here. And they were below the exile in power when the exile was stated to be average. Just because you are a master doesnt mean you are uber or battle hardened. The jedi masters during ROTS got kicked and killed by clone troopers
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And that Drain did made a short work of those Jedi Masters. In less then 1 sec, it hit them and in a total of 5 seconds, they were dead. If it was really an instakill it would touch them for a second and then retract. The only reason why it stuck to them for 5 seconds is because it took 5 seconds to kill them

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Traya's drain technique is known as "instakill" and it was not named as such by me. You are arguing over the names of the techniques now. Named by who? Various sources named it a force drain. Not an insta kill. If you mean it was "dubbed" an instakill then it is debatable.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those Jedi Masters are now below average? This is it!
Since they havnt done anything impressive or display anything with the force





Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Palpatine's draining technique is different from that of Traya. Point not moot.Those Jedi Masters are now below average? This is it!
Oh wait i think you are right because palpatines drain is identical to nihilus since he drained the planet of byss




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force Shields can reduce the damage of Force attacks including that of Drain techniques but it doesn not fully protects you from the effects of very powerful Drain techniques. It deflected banes force wave and force shield is a larger scale of force dissipate which blocked lightning from sidious and shielded luke skywalker from a blast from an ATAT which has enough fire power to take down massive structures

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Remember that Traya once said that "There are some techniques in the Force, for which there is no defence". That was nihilus force drain which has no defence and hers is a force drain. Not a severing force technique like nihilus and sadly she has never learnt of the fallanasi looping technique which by rotj sidious learnt

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

She Force Waved them first. And then she drained them in the second attack. Her drain touched them in less then 1 sec and after that, it was game over for those Jedi Masters. See the above few posts. I already answered that

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It does shows that how quickly Traya's Drain can reach her target.
All techniques are fast. Crush is even faster which sidious mastered

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It took 4 seconds for them to die. But they were hit in less then 1 sec.
Then it isnt a insta kill


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I have already said before that timing of an attack is what can change the situation in a fight. Sure is

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@ Manslayer

You however deserve a credit for showing that instakill does not instantly kills a victim.

It instantly hits it's intended target though and is still a very deadly technique. Because when it hits a victim, it is already too late.
No doubt it is indeed dangerous but sidious does have a resistence. To how greatly it can effect him is a debate
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Very interesting video indeed. That restoration Mod will actually increase the replay value of KOTOR II game and I am eagerly waiting to try this Mod.

Thanks for sharing! Yes and i hope lucasarts take notice of it and decide to make the new events canon because from what i read the full story of kotor 2 is very very epic

How can there even be an argument for Traya to win, Sidious is just to good for her.

You moron, when did I ever disagree with this? You just proved my point, that mMalak on the star forge is Malak in his prime. Thanks, you dumb fvck.


The thing is, I DON't want Glentract to prove that Traya > Sidious, I want him to prove that Sidious isn't the strongest Sith ever at the time of ROTS.




You were saying? Moron, fvcking dipshit @$$hole who can't read. Think before posting, goodbye.

Originally posted by darthsith19
You moron, when did I ever disagree with this? You just proved my point, that mMalak on the star forge is Malak in his prime. Thanks, you dumb fvck. Never argued against that

Originally posted by darthsith19

The thing is, I DON't want Glentract to prove that Traya > Sidious, I want him to prove that Sidious isn't the strongest Sith ever at the time of ROTS.




You were saying? Moron, fvcking dipshit @$$hole who can't read. Think before posting, goodbye. Lol dumbshit even though i was babbling the wrong thing. My point still stands you ARE still defying canon which will further bring you down in the dumbass ranks

Originally posted by Manslayer
Well in most cases the strongest does win because a case can be made for him
I agree that the strongest have more chances of victory and this is why I have stated that Sidious have more chances of victory against Traya but it will not be an easy fight at all. And we have also seen that one effective power or technique is enough to bring down a powerful person on to his knees. Mace did it with his Vaapad. Traya can also do some serious damage with her Drain.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Just by stunning him?
You forgot the Force Whirlwind part.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Because had revan threw up a defence stun wouldnt have worked and because he got hit aswell. Yoda also didnt throw up a defence to sidious thus he ended up like revan
I can't say for sure that Revan used a defensive ability at that point so I will not speculate. But I will give you a hint that even if you use "Force Immunity" during that fight, Malak still manages to Force Stun you.

And Revan was actually stunned by Malak during the fight. While Yoda was not fighting Sidious when he got hit by Sidious's Lightning attack. So there is some sort of difference in both the cases.

Still I think that Revan's limited focus was also partly responsible in this failure, but let us not forget that Malak was a very powerful and experienced Sith Lord at that time and Revan also had limited training to use against him.

Originally posted by Manslayer
mmhmm
It is sadly the truth!

Originally posted by Manslayer
That could be referring to military tactis to turn the tide. What malak did in the war with the force is unknown
I do not consider "recklessely charging in to dangerous fights" to be some sort of military tactic to turn the tide. Malak was obviously using his personal abilities in the battles to turn the tide.

There are speculations that Revan was also using the Force to a large extent during the Mando Wars.

Originally posted by Manslayer
I thought revan was the single greatest warrior of his age?
And who I called this? Obviously I was talking about Revan!

When you face a person that powerful, your chances of victory become dim. And Malak was no exception.

Also let us not forget that when Revan again confronted Darth Malak on the Star Forge, he enjoyed following things:

1) All the useful and necessary knowledge and training from the Jedi Council on Dantooine.
2) All the useful and necessary knowledge and training from the Sith Masters in the Sith Academy in Korriban. Revan also again explored the tombs of the famous Ancient Sith Lords and once again studied there secrets and even kept some of the things with him like "the holocron of Tulak Hord" and some powerful Sith Swords etc.
3) His past memories were also returning or recovering.
4) Immense Raw Power (As evident from his success in the massive fights on the Star Forge)
5) And this time, he was now fighting with a clear mind.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Well if he was already choking them, It shows that they could not throw up a defence in time
They failed to counter the Force Choke attack from Malak in the first place. That's why they became victims of his Force Choke attack.

Originally posted by Manslayer
and force choke is slowly squeezing the life out of them and making them lose conciousness which makes them totally unprepared and vulnerable to his next attack which is lightning
Those Jedi were being possibly weakened to some extent by the Choke but Malak was not trying to kill them with the Choke. He held them in a Gripping From, when he was talking to Revan. And those Jedi were not knocked down unconcious as a result by the Choke. Then Malak suddenly decided to show Revan some of his Force moves and he killed one with a powerful burst of Force Lightning and the other one with a Light Saber Throw attack.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Legend please keep this civil. Bastila told malak "Do yo u think torture will work on me" Something like that and he replied to her telling he is just showing her a taste of the dark side and at the same time he was tempting her
I am sorry if I offended you by that comment. Malak was using Dun Moch on her at that time but she was not giving up easily. So Malak started torturing her with his Force Lightning and after that we see her joining the Sith. And Malak clearly said "You are strong Child, but I will break you" and he did so, not with the words but with the torture from his personal powers.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Malak is powerful like i said...
He is very powerful.

And according to the latest news, he is considered to be among the hard hitters of the Jedi/Sith Order in the "Champions of the Force" list along with Darth Bane and Jaina Solo.

His description is like this: "Darth Malak is a straightforward lightsaber combatant. True to his character, his abilities and powers focus on attacking his enemies head on. His high Defense and Attack scores enable him to take on strong opponents, and he can increase his damage through Sith Rage when desired.

Here are some stats comparison:

Darth Malak: 120, 20, 15, 20 (Force Points: 4)
Darth Nihilus: 100, 19, 12, 20 (Force Points: 5)
Darth Bane: 200, 20, 16, 30 (Force Points: 2)
Darth Sidious : 130, 19, 14, 20 (Force Points: 2)
Darth Vader : 140, 22, 15, 20 (Force Points: 4)

Originally posted by Manslayer
Id actually bump some of them off your list and add malak and vader in. What happened to them anyway??
I would also like to place Malak and Vader in that list and they are being verbally fellated by many sources!

But like I said before, it is very hard to rank the most powerful Jedi and Sith. And these lists are dynamic for me because things change with passage of time.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Because we didnt see revan try. So are you also saying that yoda was trying to defend against sidious initial attack?
No. Yoda was blinded by his arrogance. Revan was fighting Malak on the otherhand.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Well if kun can spread his attack to stun thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people i think he would rather do it well on one single jedi. Irrelevant to the point so ill drop it here
Accept that Kun never managed to stun the Jedi in the senate. Malak seems to be more proficient in this regard.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Because revan was caught by suprise. As was yoda from sidious
Revan was fighting Malak and was not caught by suprise.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Bastila also didnt expect to get stunned because malak drew out his saber, she was expecting him to strike with the saber. And carth is no force user so he too got stunned
Well! Malak can surprise as well!

Originally posted by Manslayer
If you watched the video it took 5 seconds actually and no it isnt a insta kill. Its a force drain
I was talking about the speed with which her Drain hits those Jedi and not the kill time. And when it hits, it is already too late.

Originally posted by Manslayer
I didnt. I actually proved it wasnt an insta kill. 5 seconds it took to kill them. While it does prove timing is critical. It doesnt disprove the fact that a powerful force user can resist it
Instakill, might not be, but it is Instahit indeed!

Originally posted by Manslayer
And they were below the exile in power when the exile was stated to be average.
Exile was got stunned too and fell down when Traya used her Force Wave. This event alone shows that much powerful Traya was.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Just because you are a master doesnt mean you are uber or battle hardened. The jedi masters during ROTS got kicked and killed by clone troopers
Those Masters had fought in The Great Sith War and Kavar had fought in some more battes as well. And those Jedi Masters also managed to survive the devastating onslaught of Darth Malak on the Dantooine in which Malak captured and killed many Jedi, which is also a feat to acknowledge. Thus this shows that those Jedi Masters were battle-hardened and experienced.

Whereas, many Jedi Masters of PT period were not so battle-hardened and experienced and when the war broke out, may of them became easy victims. It shows their lack of experience.

Originally posted by Manslayer
If it was really an instakill it would touch them for a second and then retract. The only reason why it stuck to them for 5 seconds is because it took 5 seconds to kill them
It touched them in less then one second, however it took a few seconds to kill those targets.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Named by who? Various sources named it a force drain. Not an insta kill. If you mean it was "dubbed" an instakill then it is debatable.
It is possible that it is termed simply as a Drain but it was much stronger variant of a Force Drain. Some people call it instakill but I do not know why. Anyways! lets call it a "Mega-Drain", if you like?

Originally posted by Manslayer
Since they havnt done anything impressive or display anything with the force
This does not disgards the fact those Jedi were batte-hardened and experienced.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Oh wait i think you are right because palpatines drain is identical to nihilus since he drained the planet of byss
No. Palpatine was slowly draining the inhabitants of the byss. It was indeed a powerful application of Force Drain but Palpatine never uses it in an offensive manner. This is what causes some sort of confusion.

Nihilus however quickly destroyed an entire planet with a very powerful application of Force Drain and that too in offensive manner.

Originally posted by Manslayer
It deflected banes force wave and force shield is a larger scale of force dissipate which blocked lightning from sidious and shielded luke skywalker from a blast from an ATAT which has enough fire power to take down massive structures
Force Shield will be a very effective defensive ability. It can reduce the damage caused by a powerful application of the Force Drain. Still I do not know that how successful will it be, since Force Drain is a Force attack of a very different nature then all the above mentioned things.

Originally posted by Manslayer
That was nihilus force drain which has no defence and hers is a force drain. Not a severing force technique like nihilus
Traya's Force Drain does not severs Force from its victims?

Originally posted by Manslayer
and sadly she has never learnt of the fallanasi looping technique which by rotj sidious learnt
When did ROTJ Sidious learned about the Fallanasi Looping Technique?

Originally posted by Manslayer
All techniques are fast. Crush is even faster which sidious mastered
Sidious is damn powerful. He has higher chances to win in any fight but in some cases he can fall too. If Sidious launches his attack first, he will gain the upperhand.

Originally posted by Manslayer
Then it isnt a insta kill
Instahit, maybe?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I agree that the strongest have more chances of victory and this is why I have stated that Sidious have more chances of victory against Traya but it will not be an easy fight at all. And we have also seen that one effective power or technique is enough to bring down a powerful person on to his knees. Mace did it with his Vaapad. Traya can also do some serious damage with her Drain.
Vaapad worked because it reflected sidious own hate and power against him and you bet it will be an easy fight. This is DE sidious who would easily kill her with any of his techniques and he can perform techniques she has never even heard or seen before
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You forgot the Force Whirlwind part.
Wow force pushing or force whirlwinding a powerful jedi = impressive then i guess the dark woman is a god since she landed attacks on vader
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I can't say for sure that Revan used a defensive ability at that point so I will not speculate. But I will give you a hint that even if you use "Force Immunity" during that fight, Malak still manages to Force Stun you. Gameplay mechanics arent canon
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Revan was actually stunned by Malak during the fight. While Yoda was not fighting Sidious when he got hit by Sidious's Lightning attack. So there is some sort of difference in both the cases.
But he had ample time to put up a defence and during the fight when sidious attacked again with lightning He still managed
to put up a shield to dissippate the lightning
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Still I think that Revan's limited focus was also partly responsible in this failure, but let us not forget that Malak was a very powerful and experienced Sith Lord at that time and Revan also had limited training to use against him. Right and despite having limited training he still could fight malak rather well on the leviathen.




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I do not consider "recklessely charging in to dangerous fights" to be some sort of military tactic to turn the tide. Malak was obviously using his personal abilities in the battles to turn the tide.
It wasnt malak who turned the fight. He helped revan turn the fight. Goto states malaks military tactics are too obvious hence why he preferred revan

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

There are speculations that Revan was also using the Force to a large extent during the Mando Wars. That is not the point. This is about malak not revan


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

When you face a person that powerful, your chances of victory become dim. And Malak was no exception. And traya is fighting some one of a greater league and her chances of victory are indeed Dim
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also let us not forget that when Revan again confronted Darth Malak on the Star Forge, he enjoyed following things:

1) All the useful and necessary knowledge and training from the Jedi Council on Dantooine.
2) All the useful and necessary knowledge and training from the Sith Masters in the Sith Academy in Korriban. Revan also again explored the tombs of the famous Ancient Sith Lords and once again studied there secrets and even kept some of the things with him like "the holocron of Tulak Hord" and some powerful Sith Swords etc.
3) His past memories were also returning or recovering.
4) Immense Raw Power (As evident from his success in the massive fights on the Star Forge)
5) And this time, he was now fighting with a clear mind.
Irrelevant
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They failed to counter the Force Choke attack from Malak in the first place. That's why they became victims of his Force Choke attack.
Ok
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those Jedi were being possibly weakened to some extent by the Choke but Malak was not trying to kill them with the Choke. He held them in a Gripping From, when he was talking to Revan. And those Jedi were not knocked down unconcious as a result by the Choke. Then Malak suddenly decided to show Revan some of his Force moves and he killed one with a powerful burst of Force Lightning and the other one with a Light Saber Throw attack. They were in a near death state and losing conciousness because if he wasnt choking them which he was. He would be holding them in a telekenetic grip which will give them time to counter like a force push to knock his concentration

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am sorry if I offended you by that comment. Malak was using Dun Moch on her at that time but she was not giving up easily. So Malak started torturing her with his Force Lightning and after that we see her joining the Sith. And Malak clearly said "You are strong Child, but I will break you" and he did so, not with the words but with the torture from his personal powers. No. bastila joined him willingly after being persuaded and tortured if she joined him because she was tortured and when revan confronted her, She would have gone back to him rather than flee to the SF



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And according to the latest news, he is considered to be among the hard hitters of the Jedi/Sith Order in the "Champions of the Force" list along with Darth Bane and Jaina Solo.

His description is like this: "Darth Malak is a straightforward lightsaber combatant. True to his character, his abilities and powers focus on attacking his enemies head on. His high Defense and Attack scores enable him to take on strong opponents, and he can increase his damage through Sith Rage when desired.

Here are some stats comparison:

Darth Malak: 120, 20, 15, 20 (Force Points: 4)
Darth Nihilus: 100, 19, 12, 20 (Force Points: 5)
Darth Bane: 200, 20, 16, 30 (Force Points: 2)
Darth Sidious : 130, 19, 14, 20 (Force Points: 2)
Darth Vader : 140, 22, 15, 20 (Force Points: 4) Stats arent canon at all seeing exar kun having the highest stats of all and bane being above sidious
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


I would also like to place Malak and Vader in that list and they are being verbally fellated by many sources!
I tell you what. I honestly stopped hating malak since now i do like him. Just hate his jumpsuit



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No. Yoda was blinded by his arrogance. Revan was fighting Malak on the otherhand. Well despite sidious annihilating the orders top swordsman i doubt yoda wasnt being serious

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Accept that Kun never managed to stun the Jedi in the senate. Malak seems to be more proficient in this regard.
Kuns goal was to stun the audience so they can see his awesome power



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Well! Malak can surprise as well!
Again this is sidious vs traya so drop the malak thing. If you drop it so will i
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I was talking about the speed with which her Drain hits those Jedi and not the kill time. And when it hits, it is already too late.


Instakill, might not be, but it is Instahit indeed!
Well then its the same speed as force lightning but sad to say sidious force crush is instant and even faster than both lightning and drain
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Exile was got stunned too and fell down when Traya used her Force Wave. This event alone shows that much powerful Traya was.
Force pushing a jedi = doesnt you being uber. Not saying traya isnt uber but what does she have either than her drain?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those Masters had fought in The Great Sith War and Kavar had fought in some more battes as well. And those Jedi Masters also managed to survive the devastating onslaught of Darth Malak on the Dantooine in which Malak captured and killed many Jedi, which is also a feat to acknowledge. Thus this shows that those Jedi Masters were battle-hardened and experienced. Right because they fought in wars = they uber then i might as well potray vader as a force god because he slaughtered the jedis during purge who had been through 3 wars. Then being battle hardened doesnt = them to being strong. I might as well say sia lan wezz who is an utter weakling survived 3 wars but got pwned instantly by vader
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Whereas, many Jedi Masters of PT period were not so battle-hardened and experienced and when the war broke out, may of them became easy victims. It shows their lack of experience.
Sometimes experience wouldnt matter seeing yoda had 800 years of it and stalemated with sidious who only had 60
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It touched them in less then one second, however it took a few seconds to kill those targets. Force crush is faster and so is lightning

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is possible that it is termed simply as a Drain but it was much stronger variant of a Force Drain. Some people call it instakill but I do not know why. Anyways! lets call it a "Mega-Drain", if you like?
No but a high intensity drain would fit it
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

This does not disgards the fact those Jedi were batte-hardened and experienced. But unable to counter a force push which PT jedis and POD jedis could do

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No. Palpatine was slowly draining the inhabitants of the byss. It was indeed a powerful application of Force Drain but Palpatine never uses it in an offensive manner. This is what causes some sort of confusion.
Palpatine drained them slowly because he wanted to seeing that civilians could not defend against it nor retaliate and DSSB stated so if i remember

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Nihilus however quickly destroyed an entire planet with a very powerful application of Force Drain and that too in offensive manner.
Nihilus force drain is different. It severs you from the force completely thus without the force you die. If its a cheesy force drain why on earth would kreia label it a technique which is the greatest of sith teachings at that time and also state that it cannot be learnt when so many other sith lords can use force drain?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Force Shield will be a very effective defensive ability. It can reduce the damage caused by a powerful application of the Force Drain. Still I do not know that how successful will it be, since Force Drain is a Force attack of a very different nature then all the above mentioned things. It wouldnt reduce. Based on the individual it can completely block out a force attack as kasim who is shit compared to sidious could barely hold off an intense force wave from bane

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Traya's Force Drain does not severs Force from its victims?
No. Nihilus one does
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

When did ROTJ Sidious learned about the Fallanasi Looping Technique?
If you read the blackfleet crisis it states one fallanasi betrayed them and joined sidious and sidious wanted to know their ways of the force which the traitor did teach him i believe and most of the powers he learnt are after ROTS
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Sidious is damn powerful. He has higher chances to win in any fight but in some cases he can fall too. If Sidious launches his attack first, he will gain the upperhand. True its like who strikes first who wins but kreias drain could quickly kill jedis who are inferior to sidious but would it even work on sidious? Because sidious may very well throw a force crush which is instant compared to drain

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Instahit, maybe? Not insta hit but fast hit