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Both of them are at full power. Battle is at Geonosis arena. Who wins?
Vader is the OT vader.

1.Lightsabers only
2.Force only
3.All out

it all depends on if Vader can break his will, although I'm not sure Sion's skill is up to par.

sion all the way, even without his uber ability, and i doubt vader would break his will, hes got no mental advantage over sion

Yeah, i don't think sion would be intimidated with vader at all so...

Originally posted by IOU
sion all the way, even without his uber ability, and i doubt vader would break his will, hes got no mental advantage over sion

So you think Sion can win even without his "uber ability". I think you don't need to kill Sion to beat him if Vader could cut off Sion's limbs like his hands than he can win the first one. In force powers I would give the edge to Sion due to his ability. In all out fight if Vader could do what I said in a lightsaber duel then he has a good chance but it wont be easy. Without his ability Sion would loose all three.

there's no point in putting Sion in any battle setting, cause his fanboys just say, "oh he's immortal, no one can beat him," and anytime you try to say that someone can break his will, they deny it. So whats the point? Vader's better in every aspect, Sion just keeps coming back...it would get old quick.

FROM HERE ON SION CAN DIE

Any strong force user can just cut sion with a saber then use the force to seperate the dismembered body part. For example, his head

Originally posted by Manslayer
Any strong force user can just cut sion with a saber then use the force to seperate the dismembered body part. For example, his head
The problem is that this is not so easy as it sounds.

Sion can keep his body intact through sheer hatred and power of the Dark Side of the Force. His body does not disintegrates unless he willingly gives up.

Exile actually had to convince Sion to gve up his hatred and anger. There was no other way to defeat him.

EDIT:

Here is a hint: Darth Vader (OT) knows the art of Dun Moch.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
there's no point in putting Sion in any battle setting, cause his fanboys just say, "oh he's immortal, no one can beat him," and anytime you try to say that someone can break his will, they deny it. So whats the point? Vader's better in every aspect, Sion just keeps coming back...it would get old quick.

And you were right

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The problem is that this is not so easy as it sounds.

Sion can keep his body intact through sheer hatred and power of the Dark Side of the Force. His body does not disintegrates unless he willingly gives up.

Exile actually had to convince Sion to gve up his hatred and anger. There was no other way to defeat him.

EDIT:

Here is a hint: Darth Vader (OT) knows the art of Dun Moch.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The problem is that this is not so easy as it sounds.

Sion can keep his body intact through sheer hatred and power of the Dark Side of the Force. His body does not disintegrates unless he willingly gives up.

Exile actually had to convince Sion to gve up his hatred and anger. There was no other way to defeat him.

EDIT:

Here is a hint: Darth Vader (OT) knows the art of Dun Moch.

Note that there is no proof what so ever that Sion is good with a lightsaber.Vader will at the very least defeat him. Vader>>Sion with a saber combat and what other force powers does he have beside the ridiculous ability to survive. As moonslayer said you cut off his head or hands it will do him no good in being alive since he will not be able to fightback.

And then what, he stays there for his entire life holding Sions body apart with the Force. Don't get me wrong, Vaders Force mastery is way above Sions as are his skills with a saber, but if he cant be killed in normal combat, he will just wait that Vader becomes tired and then finish him of. And the Exile also defeated him in a saber match numerous times and he always came back. Like Nobaris said in one post, he want always give up his life in every scenario, it all depends if Vader knows about Sions history and how much, if he knows that Traya is his weakness, he could convince him to do it, the Sith from ions time operated from shadows, they didn't fought a Galaxy scale war like Revan and Malak, so for the Universe they weren't that important, especially because the Jedi, Don't share everything with public, but then again Vader had access to countless Sith and Jedi Holocrans stored in the Jedi temple, like i said it all depends, of how much Vader knows about Sion.

Wait sion can regenerate his body part's or use the force to bring himself together? Or am I misinterpreting what you said?

Well he did it with the Exile, she striked him down numerous times in their duel and he always came back and the fight was a saber duel, so she had to cut something off. And the doctor on the harbinger said that Sions body was fractured and then pulled back together, thats what his immortality do, he pules himself back to one piece. Unless i am wrong.

Couldn't she have simply stabbed him, I really wish it could be more specific on these things.(kotor books please!) As far as the doctor part I will replay the begining later.But it is pretty that without the power vader would though. Is there any guide that has more information on Sion?

Not that i know and yes, without immortality Vader would own Sion, thats all he has.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The problem is that this is not so easy as it sounds.

Sion can keep his body intact through sheer hatred and power of the Dark Side of the Force. His body does not disintegrates unless he willingly gives up.

Exile actually had to convince Sion to gve up his hatred and anger. There was no other way to defeat him.

EDIT:

Here is a hint: Darth Vader (OT) knows the art of Dun Moch. Well his body is held together by the force any any force user stronger than he is can overpower his will to hold his body together and tear him apart.

Yes, I agree. Without his inmortality, Sion has nothing against Vader. He has not proven anything special with the saber, or at least nothing compared to Vaders feats.

Sions ability only works on places with dark side nexus' he said that with korriban running through him he was immortal, on a place like geonosis that won't work. Anyways even with it Vader would crush him like a messed up looking bug

Originally posted by ESB -1138
And you were right
An advice: Next time think twice, before you pass a judgment.

I am not a Sion fanboy.

when vader displays this kind of skill with a saber, get back to me

You understimate Vader's skill with the saber, IOU. Besides, that's not really impressive and Kreia was very weak at that time.

no, im really not, i consider vaders lightsaber ability as being on par with people like count dooku, im really not underestimating him, thats what your doing with sion

and kreia was hardly 'very weak' at the time, she was clearly strong enough to conjure up such an impressive force camoflage, and she had had more than enough time to mostly heal her wounds gained from the battle leading up to the start of the game

i think its time you actually offer up some proof to your claims

My claims? I only said you are understimating Vader's skill. I'm not claiming anything. Kreia at least wanted Sion and the Exile to think she's not at all powerful at that time, that's pretty obvious. Oh, and maybe Kreia knew if Sion was able to damage her, her bond with the Exile and her would be stronger. That's just an assumption, though, I'm not saying it's definite.

Besides, that's not really impressive and Kreia was very weak at that time.

what do you call that then, genious?



unsupported assumption, not to mention a blatant misinterpretation of the scene

she held up her lightsaber, and was in a battle stance, clearly with the intent of not actually having her hand sliced off

as evident by the monologue that she gave to sion, she clearly wanted to humiliate him, and rub in how he had learnt nothing, that was clearly her goal, nothing to do with her force bond

She didn't have a lightsaber... and what makes you think Kreia wanted to show she was all-powerful? She wanted her enemies to think she was weak. I don't need proof to that, it's just using logic. Maybe your'e right about what I said she was actually weak, but at least she was pretending to be.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Note that there is no proof what so ever that Sion is good with a lightsaber. So I suppose killing most of the old Jedi Order, aswell as being the best Sith Assassin of his time and literally leading the Sith to victory against the Jedi Order proves he isn't good with a saber? Bullshit.

Vader gets his ass handed to him. Vader may have helped hunt down what remained of the Jedi Order of his time(Who were clearly weaker than the ones in Sion's time), but there wasn't that much left TO hunt after O66 and his pre-suit purge of the Jedi Temple, Palpatine actually makes note of that in the ROTS novel.

"Clearly weaker than the ones in Sion's time" ? "Leading the Sith to victory against the JO" ?

Right... you clearly don't spend much time on the SW forums...

I'm with Vader.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
So I suppose killing most of the old Jedi Order, aswell as being the best Sith Assassin of his time and literally leading the Sith to victory against the Jedi Order proves he isn't good with a saber? Bullshit.

Maybe I did underestimate his saber skill but there is nothing suggest he is as good as Vader. I would like for you to name some of the powerful jedi he killed. We know he was a great assassin. But assassin don't usallt attack their enimies head on.(this maybe different but it is not known how he acts) Also note that there were barely any jedi left at that time. I say about a hundred left after the jedi civil war. Many others joined Revan's sith empire. (I also believe Traya says that as well) Nihilus killed a few dozen or little more than that at Katarr. The most notable of the master that were left were in hiding at the time of KOTOR2. Sion killed the one at Korriban. As for the other 3(Kavar,Zez-Kai Ell and Vrook Lamar) were killed by Traya. I will say it again Sion is better than I originally stated in the thread but he is not on Vader's level.

Originally posted by Riverollv
"Clearly weaker than the ones in Sion's time" ? "Leading the Sith to victory against the JO" ?

Right... you clearly don't spend much time on the SW forums... Or you don't spend enough, n00b.

And yes, the Jedi WERE weaker in Vader's time, since most of the of knowledge and literature on teaching and mastering Force powers and lightsaber forms were lost between Kotor-Prequels. Plus most if not all of the Jedi in Vader's time practiced so much of Form l that mostly all of the Jedi Order never trained in Ligthsaber-to-Lightsaber forms because they felt no need to due to the Sith being 'extinct'. Add to that the fact that their ability to 'see' Force was diminishing rapidly due to Palpatine, and right there shows that they were weaker than the Jedi of Sion's time.

And yes, he did lead the old Sith to victory, since it was him and his Sith Assassins that took out most of the Jedi Order, was it not? Sure Nihilus took out Katarr, but he never did most of the dirty work like Sion and his men did.

Learn your facts, n00b.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Maybe I did underestimate his saber skill but there is nothing suggest he is as good as Vader. I would like for you to name some of the powerful jedi he killed. We know he was a great assassin. But assassin don't usallt attack their enimies head on.(this maybe different but it is not known how he acts) Also note that there were barely any jedi left at that time. I say about a hundred left after the jedi civil war. Many others joined Revan's sith empire. (I also believe Traya says that as well) Nihilus killed a few dozen or little more than that at Katarr. The most notable of the master that were left were in hiding at the time of KOTOR2. Sion killed the one at Korriban. As for the other 3(Kavar,Zez-Kai Ell and Vrook Lamar) were killed by Traya. I will say it again Sion is better than I originally stated in the thread but he is not on Vader's level. And there is nothing suggest that post-suit Vader did anything considerable besides killing an Old Man who let him and cutting the hand off a kid who barely learned on how to use a saber

You're right, they don't. That's why him and his assassins cloaked and stalked Jedi till it was the right time to strike and then used a technique that drained the soon-to-be-dead Jedi, of the Force(Kreia mentions this in the game). And yeah, because him and most of his men hunted them down, then when some went to discuss about it, Nihilus killed them, and Sion and his men hunted down the rest.

And I will say again; bullshit. In Purge, Vader was lured into a trap due to his emotions getting the better of him, only killed a few Jedi, and was about to be killed by the few remaining Jedi till his troops bailed him out. Where as Sion, wouldn't need anyone to bail him out, due to the fact that he can regenerate and knows a hell of a lot more than Vader does, due to the fact he probably had more knowledge available in his time than Vader did.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Or you don't spend enough, n00b.

And yes, the Jedi WERE weaker in Vader's time, since most of the of knowledge and literature on teaching and mastering Force powers and lightsaber forms were lost between Kotor-Prequels. Plus most if not all of the Jedi in Vader's time practiced so much of Form l that mostly all of the Jedi Order never trained in Ligthsaber-to-Lightsaber forms because they felt no need to due to the Sith being 'extinct'. Add to that the fact that their ability to 'see' Force was diminishing rapidly due to Palpatine, and right there shows that they were weaker than the Jedi of Sion's time.
Learn your facts, n00b.

Ok name THE most powerful jedi from Revan's/Sion's time who could match up against the best of Anakin's time-Mace Windu, Yoda and Obi-wan Kenobi.

What forms were lost? Notable lightsbaer master's and their forms- Form l had master Kit Fitso. Form ll-Makashi had Dooku even before he fell. Form lll-Soresu had Obi-Wan. Form IV had Yoda. Form V-Djem So had Anakin before he fell. FormVI-Niman had Cin Drallig who also mastered all the forms listed above. Mace Windu even created his own form Vapaad which was extremely affective against the dark side.Where was it stated that Jedi before the Clone Wars didn't practice other forms? The jedi in Vader's time>KOTOR jedi

Originally posted by Darth Hord
Ok name most powerful jedi from Revan's/Sion's time who could match up against the best of Anakin's time-Mace Windu, Yoda and Obi-wan Kenobi.

What forms were lost? Notable lightsbaer master's and their forms- Form l had master Kit Fitso. Form ll-Makashi had Dooku even before he fell. Form lll-Soresu had Obi-Wan. Form IV had Yoda. Form V-Djem So had Anakin before he fell. FormVI-Niman had Cin Drallig who also mastered all the forms listed above. Mace Windu even created his own form Vapaad which was extremely affective against the dark side.Where was it stated that Jedi before the Clone Wars didn't practice other forms? The jedi in Vader's time>KOTOR jedi Kavar, Vrook, Revan and the Exile.

Form l was pretty much the pinacle of Vader's time Jedi Order. Form lll is probably the second, but Dooku, Mace(Which is pretty much redundant, since only Mace knew how to use Vaapad effectively) and Yoda's forms were saber to saber forms, which were pretty much not practiced at all, like I said above, due to the JO of that time not needing it since they thought the Sith were 'extinct'. The SW Chronology book confirms it. And Cin knew all those moves except Mace's form, yes, but he literally got killed in what? 30 seconds? Shows how powerful he is. If he was against any of the above, he'd be obliterated.

The old Jedi Order's Jedi were basically taught to know ALL forms, instead of specializing in just one(Which is what the Prequel Jedi did), which definately gives them an advantage. Plus take into the fact that they had a hell of a lot more knowledge to learn from than the Prequel jedi, and that they could see the Force clearly while the Prequel Jedi were blind to it.

Plus, as I said, there was a lot more knowledge available in Sion's time than there was in Vader's time.

And as I said before, take into the fact that Sion and his men knew an advanced form of Force Drain, which means all he'd have to do is drain Vader, and that's it.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
And there is nothing suggest that post-suit Vader did anything considerable besides killing an Old Man who let him and cutting the hand off a kid who barely learned on how to use a saber

You're right, they don't. That's why him and his assassins cloaked and stalked Jedi till it was the right time to strike and then used a technique that drained the soon-to-be-dead Jedi, of the Force(Kreia mentions this in the game). And yeah, because him and most of his men hunted them down, then when some went to discuss about it, Nihilus killed them, and Sion and his men hunted down the rest.

And I will say again; bullshit. In Purge, Vader was lured into a trap due to his emotions getting the better of him, only killed a few Jedi, and was about to be killed by the few remaining Jedi till his troops bailed him out. Where as Sion, wouldn't need anyone to bail him out, due to the fact that he can regenerate and knows a hell of a lot more than Vader does, due to the fact he probably had more knowledge available in his time than Vader did.

Of course Sion didn't need help because he could not die. We don't know the exact number of jedi left after the JCW yet it has been said to be under a hundred. You have no idea what percentage of those were killed by Sion's assassins or how many Nihilus killed or Sion himself. Or if any of the jedi who hid were in groups like (except on Katarr) there were when Vader went some as you mentioned. Nor do we know how powerful the remaining jedi were. I would also like to point how you said above how they would cloak and drained the jedi without them knowing until it is too late.Vader did killed the revived Maul for starters as well others during the purge. Also note if Sion would walk in there he could just let them stab him and continue to fight EVERYONE ELSE does not have that luxury. You might have a point in terms of knowledge. Vader might not have had any knowledge about Malachor V but he was trained by Sidious who arguably had more knowledge that any other Sith.(ex force storm)

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Kavar, Vrook, Revan and the Exile.

So you think they could match up agiant and defeat Yoda,Mace,Obi-wan and Anakin? That might be a good thread to start actually. But I have to go off right now and we can continue this debate later today . I'd also like to thank you for not calling me names and having a friendly debate.

Originally posted by Darth Hord


Source please. Plus you basically just contradicted yourself right there. Basically the whole Jedi Order was devastated. Sion and his men started slaughtering them by the hundreds(Straight from the game) and when some of the remaining Jedi gathered at Katarr, Nihilus attacked, then the remaining Jedi fled, only to eventually slaughtered by Sion and his men.


And how many Jedi did Vader kill in that little group? There were only 8 in that group, 3 of which Vader killed, and 3 of which Vader was about to BE KILLED by.


And if the Jedi in Sion's time knew how to use all the saber forms instead of just specializing in one and say the Force clearly, I'd certainly put them above the Jedi Vader hunted, who lacked all those things.


From what Ive heard in the game, they would themselves from the Force and the Jedi themselves, and strike when the moment was right.

So? Maul was basically a pawn. He let his pride get the better of him not one, but TWO times, and look what happened. Maul himself wouldn't stand a chance against Sion. And Vader killed what? 3 Jedi who weren't prepared, two more who were just inexperienced padawans and one who gave up? That's nothing compared to what Sion and his assassins did.

True, but we know Sidious wouldn't teach Vader to the point where Sion was, lest Vader try and succeed in defeating Sidious, he actually mentions that in the ROTS Novel aswell.

Sion> OT Vader

Originally posted by Darth Hord
So you think they could match up agiant and defeat Yoda,Mace,Obi-wan and Anakin? That might be a good thread to start actually. But I have to go off right now and we can continue this debate later today . I'd also like to thank you for not calling me names and having a friendly debate. They could definately defeat Obi-Wan and Anakin, though Yoda and Mace would put up a damn good fight. For a source on Revan's power, I suggest reading that Darth Bane book that came out last year. It's a good read, and gives you pretty good idea on how powerful Revan alone was. And you're welcome.

Though I'd have to say, Revan could beat both Mace and Yoda, not together, but he could kill Mace whille the others are holding Yoda off, and could gang up on Yoda and finish him.

Do you have any sort of proof which indicates Kavar and Vrook were more skilled and powerful than Mace and Yoda? Or any quotes? If you do, please post the link

Originally posted by Spartan ll
So I suppose killing most of the old Jedi Order, aswell as being the best Sith Assassin of his time and literally leading the Sith to victory against the Jedi Order proves he isn't good with a saber? Bullshit.

Vader gets his ass handed to him. Vader may have helped hunt down what remained of the Jedi Order of his time(Who were clearly weaker than the ones in Sion's time), but there wasn't that much left TO hunt after O66 and his pre-suit purge of the Jedi Temple, Palpatine actually makes note of that in the ROTS novel. You clearly are anti vader

Originally posted by Spartan ll
Source please. Plus you basically just contradicted yourself right there. Basically the whole Jedi Order was devastated. Sion and his men started slaughtering them by the hundreds(Straight from the game) and when some of the remaining Jedi gathered at Katarr, Nihilus attacked, then the remaining Jedi fled, only to eventually slaughtered by Sion and his men. You sir are a liar, sion never slaughtered them by the hundreds. The game states that most of the jedi died during JCW and nihilus annihilated the remaining council on katar which caused the survivors to hide

Originally posted by Spartan ll

And how many Jedi did Vader kill in that little group? There were only 8 in that group, 3 of which Vader killed, and 3 of which Vader was about to BE KILLED by. Right despite vader still being inexperienced and still having his anakin skywalker cocky attitude. Had this been OT vader he would have actually planned his attack

Originally posted by Spartan ll

And if the Jedi in Sion's time knew how to use all the saber forms instead of just specializing in one and say the Force clearly, I'd certainly put them above the Jedi Vader hunted, who lacked all those things. Right and just to let you know the PT era jedi > the kotor era jedi in dueling, So because they use all forms this and that bullshit means they > a master of a form to the highest degree like dooku and vader?

Originally posted by Spartan ll

So? Maul was basically a pawn. He let his pride get the better of him not one, but TWO times, and look what happened. Maul himself wouldn't stand a chance against Sion. And Vader killed what? 3 Jedi who weren't prepared, two more who were just inexperienced padawans and one who gave up? That's nothing compared to what Sion and his assassins did.
Actually they were prepared if you read carefully. And how do you know they were "Inexperienced"? Infact vader was inexperienced , not them since sia lan wez and bulter swan took part in many battles before

Originally posted by Spartan ll

True, but we know Sidious wouldn't teach Vader to the point where Sion was, lest Vader try and succeed in defeating Sidious, he actually mentions that in the ROTS Novel aswell. While RODV indicated vader would have become as powerful as sidious. Vader is above sion in every aspect, Tell me what has sion done which is impressive? Vader clearly beats him in that aspect. And by the way sions "Immortality" only happens on malachor as he himself stated and even if this took place on malachor vader could just use the dark side of malachor to back him up and amplify his power as the sith could
Originally posted by Spartan ll

Sion> OT Vader In what way? Right you cant prove it


Originally posted by Spartan ll
And there is nothing suggest that post-suit Vader did anything considerable besides killing an Old Man who let him and cutting the hand off a kid who barely learned on how to use a saber Actually he killed several jedis in RODV and his saber form is described as lightning fast and that he has a perfect counter to every strike the jedis gave on him while he took down an entire army of wookies dismembering them apart
Originally posted by Spartan ll

You're right, they don't. That's why him and his assassins cloaked and stalked Jedi till it was the right time to strike and then used a technique that drained the soon-to-be-dead Jedi, of the Force(Kreia mentions this in the game). And yeah, because him and most of his men hunted them down, then when some went to discuss about it, Nihilus killed them, and Sion and his men hunted down the rest. If sion is so almighty and immortal he wouldnt even need to sneak up on his opponents and he wouldnt need a group either
Originally posted by Spartan ll

And I will say again; bullshit. In Purge, Vader was lured into a trap due to his emotions getting the better of him, only killed a few Jedi, and was about to be killed by the few remaining Jedi till his troops bailed him out. Where as Sion, wouldn't need anyone to bail him out, due to the fact that he can regenerate and knows a hell of a lot more than Vader does, due to the fact he probably had more knowledge available in his time than Vader did. Right and purge was what? 2 weeks after ROTS? what has vader learnt that time? Correct nothingv since it happened 2 week after the movies. OT vader how ever has destroyed tanks as big as an ATAT ESB-1138 or w/o his name was showed us the video. While vader used a waterfall to drown the dark woman as well as using force wave to blow back an entire platton of rebel troops 100 feet back. Lets also not forgot vader destroyed the medical room by just letting his emotions out

I don't have enough time to continue this debate, so I'll hand it to you without a fight. However, I am interested in this video of 'OT vader destroying tanks as big as an ATAT and 'using force wave to blow back an entire platton of rebel troops 100 feet back.'

I haven't been here in awhile, so forgive me if I don't know what the hell is going on.

Kavar and Vrook Lamar have shown absolutely nothing when compared to any of the people I mentioned. Tell me what powerful force users had they faced in lightsaber combat? All you know about them is that they were masters,who faught in a few battles. And pretty much had a dislike for the exile. There is no evidence to suggest they were gifted in lightsaber combat or in the force to challenge Mace,Yoda,Anakin,or Obi-wan. They would get killed rather fast. Revan and the exile can't win a 4 on 2 battle with jedi who at the very least on the same level of skill or better.

That's exactly what I think. I guess he's been away for too long.

I really doubt one order of jedi is much stronger than another, maybe before the clone wars the jedi order was weaker but once that came on all the constant combat would hone there skills to a point at least equal with kotor era jedi

Originally posted by Riverollv
That's exactly what I think. I guess he's been away for too long. Well, Ihaven't been here since, I think, August of last year, so forgive if I'm not up to date with latest knowings.

And Hord, as I said, get that Darth Bane book if you want to know how powerful Revan was. After reading it, I'd definately put him up there with Yoda or Mace.

Yes, he is probably up there or somewhere very near. I'd qualify Revan as being slightly weaker (overall) then Yoda and Sidious.

Originally posted by IOU
when vader displays this kind of skill with a saber, get back to me

One slow swing of the lightsaber? I don't think it's over the top to assume that Vader could do that.

Vader has toyed with two experienced Jedi Knights, who worked great together in RODV, plus killed a few Padawans (plus his feats in Purge), 20 years prior to Vader's prime. He demolished the dark woman. He has multiple sources of being "lightning fast" with his lightsaber (Script, RODV), and was described as swinging faster that the human eye can see in SOTME. He beat Obi Wan (the master of a defensive form, who had been keeping up with his saber skills, and Yoda's overall superior) in ANH. He beat Luke (who had learned a Hell of a lot on Degobah). He also has victories over other heavy hitters such as an assassin with a variety of strange weapons and defences (including a deflector shield), and Boba "BAMF" Fett. There is also always the infamous Crimson Empire scan.

However, if scans are what get you your geddies, they could be supplied I imagine.


Sion's only advantage is his rage based durability. Vader's words twisted Boba's mind and seemed to Luke as something alive. Also, Vader also used his hatred to keep himself alive, and many times even healed the wounds he suffered at Mustafar (albeit not permanently).
Also, I left out force powers, I can post them if you want.

Originally posted by Spartan ll
And Hord, as I said, get that Darth Bane book if you want to know how powerful Revan was. After reading it, I'd definately put him up there with Yoda or Mace.

I know about the book. The reason have rank him slightly below Mace and Yoda because we don't know how good he is with a ligthsaber. I know he was good and defeated Malak. But we don't know how much he used it because gameplay is not cannon. We don't know form he uses in the 1st game he has a single saber but in the 2nd game he was shown wielding 2. I know how uber he is with force but his saber skills are still yet to be fully known. I suggest you look at other threads involving Revan because this has been stated before.

Yes, we cannot know the full scale of his lightsaber skills, but there is no doubt he IS great, because he was the best in an Order of hundreds of thousands, and was considered a Prodigy.

Originally posted by Darth Skorm
Yes, we cannot know the full scale of his lightsaber skills, but there is no doubt he IS great, because he was the best in an Order of hundreds of thousands, and was considered a Prodigy.

Exactly he was great but there is no evidence to put him in the same league as Mace and Yoda in saber skills. Revan has a great knowledge of the force but as it has been stated on this forum many times that once you engage in a saber duel it is very hard to get out of it or at least put enough distance to use the force which would be Revan's best chance against either of them.

Yes, we cannot know the full scale of his lightsaber skills, but there is no doubt he IS great, because he was the best in an Order of hundreds of thousands, and was considered a Prodigy.

AotC novel says there was several thousand jedi in the galaxy not hundreds of thousands. Force sensitiveity is rare unless your talking about over several jedi generations

Originally posted by Spartan ll
I don't have enough time to continue this debate, so I'll hand it to you without a fight. However, I am interested in this video of 'OT vader destroying tanks as big as an ATAT and 'using force wave to blow back an entire platton of rebel troops 100 feet back.'

I haven't been here in awhile, so forgive me if I don't know what the hell is going on. Its in the dooku vs vader thread

And when i mentined the blowe back platton troops, its also in the game but i dont have the video but he did blow back 6 wild animals the size of elephants really far apart and he did the same thing to a thug who harassed him

Originally posted by kevin-nivek
Yes, we cannot know the full scale of his lightsaber skills, but there is no doubt he IS great, because he was the best in an Order of hundreds of thousands, and was considered a Prodigy.

AotC novel says there was several thousand jedi in the galaxy not hundreds of thousands. Force sensitiveity is rare unless your talking about over several jedi generations

Uh... why didn't you quote? Anyway, you got my point, didn't you? That's what matters.

Originally posted by Manslayer
And when i mentined the blowe back platton troops, its also in the game

I'd call into question whether or not Vader demonstrates such powers during the game.

Given what I've read, it's an in-game ability, much like Han Solo's abilities to make the Millennium Falcon invincible for a set amount of time. Unless said technique is displayed in a cutscene, then it's hardly valid to use in an argument.



"Size of elephants"?

If you're referring to what he does in Empire, Volume 3, then I'd tell you that they were half the size of Vader in height, if that. They weren't big whatsoever.



Which means what?

I really can't find this impressive, as someone like Obi-Wan Kenobi, who isn't renown for his strength in the Force tossed Grievous a fair margin away (and had he not his an object it's likely he would've went farther).

Sion is a high tier duelist that kills Jedi left and right. Proof Vader could compete with such feats?