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How this goes?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
How this goes?

IMO, Elder

Supes, if he doesn't have the gem.

Superman just smiles as Runner beats the crap out of him.

I think Superman could take most of the beating, not entirely sure. We haven't seen that much of the runner.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Superman just smiles as Runner beats the crap out of him. I tend to think bloodlust would negate his 'likable' thing.

Originally posted by Juntai
I tend to think bloodlust would negate his 'likable' thing. u cant resist it you gotta love the runner

The Runner kicks his ass with Gem , without it it's 4/10 to the Elder.

Originally posted by grey fox
The Runner kicks his ass with Gem , without it it's 4/10 to the Elder. How does he take 4/10 without it? I don't believe he's shown more speed than Superman, more strength, more durability?

I'm not even sure the random 'instant teleport' of the gem, would help him much, when he didn't seem to know how to use it consciously.

Runner doesn't need the gem, he was powerful enough to overpower the SS, and fast as hell without it. I mean with it, it would be really bad, but without it he can still win the Majority.

Also one of his powers is that you have to like him, making bloodlust hard to maintain. SS was losing to him and still saying he liked him.

Originally posted by Juntai
How does he take 4/10 without it? I don't believe he's shown more speed than Superman, more strength, more durability?

I'm not even sure the random 'instant teleport' of the gem, would help him much, when he didn't seem to know how to use it consciously.

He's an elder of the universe. Even without the gem they can channel the power primordial. That has to count for something ?

Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
Runner doesn't need the gem, he was powerful enough to overpower the SS, and fast as hell without it. I mean with it, it would be really bad, but without it he can still win the Majority.

Also one of his powers is that you have to like him, making bloodlust hard to maintain. SS was losing to him and still saying he liked him. Didn't work on Thanos, and Surfer came back and was whooping all the Elders at once, about to throw them into a black hole after that issue. Surfer also has a natural likeness to anything that lives. When the elders gathered, they even offhandedly admitted that they couldn't beat Surfer.

He hasn't shown the power neccisary for putting Superman away, imo. Especially without the gem.. When Superman's feats trump his, probably even in the speed department. When Superman can cross star systems in moments these days.

Originally posted by Juntai
When Superman's feats trump his, probably even in the speed department. When Superman can cross star systems in moments these days.


Damn SPB and his 'I want everything to be Pre-crisis again' punch. Little Emo Bastard !

Originally posted by grey fox
He's an elder of the universe. Even without the gem they can channel the power primordial. That has to count for something ? Yeah, but what exactly, without feats to show for it? I've yet to see an Elder harness any extreme power, really. It seems that if they don't have some extreme advantage without whatever their main character trait is, they have no advantage at all. Take Obliterator when Surfer destroyed his weapons. Champion without his power gem.

Originally posted by grey fox
Damn SPB and his 'I want everything to be Pre-crisis again' punch. Little Emo Bastard ! You love it.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yeah, but what exactly, without feats to show for it? I've yet to see an Elder harness any extreme power, really. It seems that if they don't have some extreme advantage without whatever their main character trait is, they have no advantage at all. Take Obliterator when Surfer destroyed his weapons. Champion without his power gem.

True...

The Elders need some love, for supposed nigh-omnipotent eternal entities they really suck ass. Perhaps a Annihilation esq mini ?

Originally posted by Juntai
Didn't work on Thanos, and Surfer came back and was whooping all the Elders at once, about to throw them into a black hole after that issue. Surfer also has a natural likeness to anything that lives. When the elders gathered, they even offhandedly admitted that they couldn't beat Surfer.

Ok when exactly did those things happen, because I'm a Surfer fan I don't remember reading ANY of that.

Originally posted by grey fox
True...

The Elders need some love, for supposed nigh-omnipotent eternal entities they really suck ass. Perhaps a Annihilation esq mini ?

Hey I already made that suggestion!

Originally posted by grey fox
True...

The Elders need some love, for supposed nigh-omnipotent eternal entities they really suck ass. Perhaps a Annihilation esq mini ? Or maybe just throw them into one of the Annihilation arcs. But a mini I might consider buying as well. But if it's in one of the Annihilation arcs, I won't have to go out of my way to spend more money, so I'd prefer that.

Originally posted by Juntai
You love it.

Pfft as if !



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/021.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok when exactly did those things happen, because I'm a Surfer fan I don't remember reading ANY of that. Like an issue or two later, iirc. It was around when they were plotting to take down Galactus so they could be the oldest beings around, whenever that was.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hey I already made that suggestion!

Originally posted by Juntai
How does he take 4/10 without it? I don't believe he's shown more speed than Superman, more strength, more durability?

I'm not even sure the random 'instant teleport' of the gem, would help him much, when he didn't seem to know how to use it consciously.

He does have very few appearances, and did get tripped once if I remember, but he still has enough power and speed to impress the Silver Surfer, and Elders didn't get where they are by being weak.

Originally posted by grey fox
Pfft as if !



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/021.jpg lmfao.

Originally posted by Juntai
Like an issue or two later, iirc. It was around when they were plotting to take down Galactus so they could be the oldest beings around, whenever that was.
You have your facts a little confused about the events. When the Elder's gathered they never said anything about being unable to beat the Surfer, the only time anything like that was mentioned was when the Runner was giving the Champion a hard time because HE(the Champion) was unable to beat Surfer while the Runner did it with ease. And Surfer didn't fight the assembled Elders either. He didn't really fight ANY of them in fact, all he did was blast out of some tentacle things that Ego made, and then fly just under Ego's surface before exploding from the ground to grab Mantis by the hand before the two of them escaped into space.

Also Surfer had very little to do with the black hole, all he did was distract the Elder's long enough for Nova to fly into the Sun causing it to go nova(which formed the Black Hole.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You have your facts a little confused about the events. When the Elder's gathered they never said anything about being unable to beat the Surfer, the only time anything like that was mentioned was when the Runner was giving the Champion a hard time because HE(the Champion) was unable to beat Surfer while the Runner did it with ease. And Surfer didn't fight the assembled Elders either. He didn't really fight ANY of them in fact, all he did was blast out of some tentacle things that Ego made, and then fly just under Ego's surface before exploding from the ground to grab Mantis by the hand before the two of them escaped into space.

Also Surfer had very little to do with the black hole, all he did was distract the Elder's long enough for Nova to fly into the Sun causing it to go nova(which formed the Black Hole.

Champions such a whiny *****

Originally posted by grey fox
Champions such a whiny *****
Wouldn't you be if Marvel made you job as much as that guy? Thing has stated on panel that the guy hits harder than the Hulk(and that was without the Power Gem), and he's supposed to be the most skilled fighter in the universe but they still have him loose to whoever he squares off against.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You have your facts a little confused about the events. When the Elder's gathered they never said anything about being unable to beat the Surfer, the only time anything like that was mentioned was when the Runner was giving the Champion a hard time because HE(the Champion) was unable to beat Surfer while the Runner did it with ease. And Surfer didn't fight the assembled Elders either. He didn't really fight ANY of them in fact, all he did was blast out of some tentacle things that Ego made, and then fly just under Ego's surface before exploding from the ground to grab Mantis by the hand before the two of them escaped into space.

Also Surfer had very little to do with the black hole, all he did was distract the Elder's long enough for Nova to fly into the Sun causing it to go nova(which formed the Black Hole. I'd have to read it again, it's been a while, but I read most of the first 100 issues of Surfer...but I was sure there was some dialog about them being unable to dispatch/defeat the Surfer.

You have scans of the black hole event?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wouldn't you be if Marvel made you job as much as that guy? Thing has stated on panel that the guy hits harder than the Hulk(and that was without the Power Gem), and he's supposed to be the most skilled fighter in the universe but they still have him loose to whoever he squares off against.

He should still suck it up, he's been whining ever since he first lost....

Didn't the runner show that he can out manure and displayed that he flat out faster then the Surfer? (w/o gem)
He was able to even snatch is board, and was fooling around the whole time.

Originally posted by Priest
Didn't the runner show that he can out manure and displayed that he flat out faster then the Surfer? (w/o gem)
He was able to even snatch is board, and was fooling around the whole time. Not really the first or last time Surfer was board snatched, iirc.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not really the first or last time Surfer was board snatched, iirc.

Hell, didn't Morg do that?

Morg's not exactly fast, either.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'd have to read it again, it's been a while, but I read most of the first 100 issues of Surfer...but I was sure there was some dialog about them being unable to dispatch/defeat the Surfer.

You have scans of the black hole event?
Sure, here are the scans from the Elder's conversation too...

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/7020/silversurfer198700418ly0.th.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4596/silversurfer198700419hd8.th.jpg




http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1020/silversurfer198800917zr6.th.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9429/silversurfer198800918pb0.th.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4746/silversurfer198800919eq1.th.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5871/silversurfer198800920tf9.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/319/silversurfer198800921xv4.th.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
Not really the first or last time Surfer was board snatched, iirc.
he the board was literally snatched from under his feat imo, he dident have to knock off the Surfer.
Runner even without the gem is a huge threat, he diden't even use the most of the time.

Wouldn't you figure runner would be able to run out of the way of a black hole?

Originally posted by Juntai
Wouldn't you figure runner would be able to run out of the way of a black hole?

If Flash can , Runner can....

Originally posted by Priest
he the board was literally snatched from under his feat imo, he dident have to knock off the Surfer.
Runner even without the gem is a huge threat, he diden't even use the most of the time. Yea', but there's still not much if anything to rank him definately outclassing Superman in terms of speed. Let alone strength, durability, versatility, and so on.

Originally posted by grey fox
If Flash can , Runner can.... But aren't they all falling into a black hole there? Two heralds owned the entire lot of elders.
And Runner is no Flash.

Originally posted by Juntai
Wouldn't you figure runner would be able to run out of the way of a black hole?
The Runner didn't get pulled into the Black Hole. Runner, Champion, Grandmaster, Gardner, and the Collector all escaped being sucked in and were eaten by Galactus the next issue.

Originally posted by Juntai
Wouldn't you figure runner would be able to run out of the way of a black hole?
thorinnsrug
All im saying is The Runner is oretty fast without the gem.
He was easily toying with the Surfer using his speed, and his mind attacks. Also he seemed formidable in H2H with him.
I don't believe i ever saw the Runner to use the gem to begin with.

Originally posted by Juntai
But aren't they all falling into a black hole there? Two heralds owned the entire lot of elders.
And Runner is no Flash.

Elders are just Jobber Fodder.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The Runner didn't get pulled into the Black Hole. Runner, Champion, Grandmaster, Gardner, and the Collector all escaped being sucked in and were eaten by Galactus the next issue. I know they survived the incident. The idea guys considered that powerful were in a predicament like that seems, eh..

Originally posted by Juntai
I know they survived the incident. The idea guys considered that powerful were in a predicament like that seems, eh..
What can I say, 80's writing....

runner

the runner for the majority, 8-9/10

http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

What exactly is Surfer doing in this scan? Is he spiralling around an energy beam and negating it or something?

I havent seen runner do anything with strength to show that he is comparable to supes in strength and such. Ill say supes untill I see more feats.

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
I havent seen runner do anything with strength to show that he is comparable to supes in strength and such. Ill say supes untill I see more feats.

everything isnt always about strength. I think that hulk is stronger then surfer but who do you think would win. Hell surfer havent shown me anything to make me think that him and superman are close to each other in strength but I would still give surfer 8/10.

Originally posted by carver9
everything isnt always about strength. I think that hulk is stronger then surfer but who do you think would win. Hell surfer havent shown me anything to make me think that him and superman are close to each other in strength but I would still give surfer 8/10.

I know not everything revolves around Strength, Flash is my favourite character lol. Im just saying for such cosmic beings they have a pretty bad track record, and look at Clarks he has handed Darksied his bum lol.

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
I know not everything revolves around Strength, Flash is my favourite character lol. Im just saying for such cosmic beings they have a pretty bad track record, and look at Clarks he has handed Darksied his bum lol.



Agreed and understood but its kind of a difference, majority of the heralds dont have there own title like superman and in superman comics he is always suppose to win since he is the hero. That same rule dont fall for everyone. Firelord is almost just as powerful as the surfer but get his a** handed to him by almost everyone, same goes for terrax, etc.

Clark will always beat darksied because darkseid will always job to superman but we all know that darkseid is much more powerful then superman.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

What exactly is Surfer doing in this scan? Is he spiralling around an energy beam and negating it or something? Looks like he's spiraling through an energy beam as he emits energy that counters it, or he's absorbing it or something.

I've always wanted to use this arguement against Superman. Supes can't beat what he can't catch!!!

Originally posted by RageOfTheGods
I havent seen runner do anything with strength to show that he is comparable to supes in strength and such. Ill say supes untill I see more feats.

He overpowered SS physically just about as easily as one can ever do. Not just outhit him, but overpowered him in a test of strength.

Oh, and he did not have the gem in that particular encounter.

Is this a joke ? Runner wins this.

The Runner literaly manhandeled the surfer and jerked the board right off him. By the end of the fight the surfer was on the ground on his knees.

the runner was smileing during the entire fight lol.

I think runner wins this, this would really be a good fight though.

One feat. One feat from this guy that shows he can match Superman in combat speed. Cause I didn't see Surfer use that well. 2nd, Superman is much much better at taking shots to the face. And his hurt more.

Runner.
faster, stronger, better.

Runner via combo to KO principle.

Originally posted by Blanket
Runner via combo to KO principle. [/QUOOMFG that's awesome...
Hehe
I wonder if there is
a person who'll come in to argue against you
8 ... Um... Yeah

Runner 10/10, none fight.

Originally posted by Blanket
Runner via combo to KO principle.

Runner would whoop superman pretty handily imo. I mean he has strength to overcome the SS, his buddy aura which superman has no answer to, also his speed which he could run circles around supes, his legit immortality is nice.

His durability imo has never been tested, mostly because i don't think anyone was able to hit him with anything serious (trying to remember if he ever got tagged, maybe his fight against the surfer).

Seriously wtf is supes going to do?

Originally posted by Juntai
How does he take 4/10 without it? I don't believe he's shown more speed than Superman, more strength, more durability?

I'm not even sure the random 'instant teleport' of the gem, would help him much, when he didn't seem to know how to use it consciously.


runner has smoked SS supes will be hard pressed in this fight i say 50/50 without gem.

Runner loses hard without the gem.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Runner loses hard without the gem. http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/SiskoAnimated.gif

Superman speed feats FTW.