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Darth Vader,10 years after ROTS v Shaak Ti and Quinlan Vos, on the death star.

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/rage/images/050828/starwarspurgecoverah.jpg


vs

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/thumb/4/4c/Blz03.jpg/200px-Blz03.jpg
http://www.jedidirectory.com/QuinlanVos001.jpg

I place all my money on Vos and Shaak Ti. Guessing how strong Vader is in between ROTS and ANH is hard, however, assuming he increased at a steady rate, in ROTS after first getting the suit he is as strong as Bol Chatak while in the OT he is almost as strong as Dooku. Inbetween Vos alone shoudl give him a nice fight. During the time of ANH he fought a Clone Maul and barely won, so he's got to be below Maul 10 years after - I doubt Vos is extremely far behind Maul. He beat Sora Bulq and Volfe Karkko (though by luck) and he beat Tol Skorr and Kadrian Sey 2 on 1 and owned Skorr one on one amongst other things. Shaak Ti isn't quite as strong as Vos, but she's pretty strong as well. She killed Artel Darc during the Clone Wars, and in the cartoon she seemed nearly as strong as Ki-Adi Mundi (we've all seen what he did with the Force while tired, right?). And Mace picked her to help him search for Darth Sidious in LOE, she was chosen to protect the Chancellor in the cartoon, and she and Vos both survived ROTS. Obi-Wan Kenobi even tells Anakin in the ROTS novel that she has very clever and has taught him a thing or two (not a direct quote, I'm going off of memory here). Together those 2 would make a powerful team, Vader 10 years after ROTS isn't uber yet, just strong. The duo takes him.

Vader is a beast by the end of RODV. With another nine years of training and experience he should have this in the bag.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I place all my money on Vos and Shaak Ti. Guessing how strong Vader is in between ROTS and ANH is hard, however, assuming he increased at a steady rate, in ROTS after first getting the suit he is as strong as Bol Chatak while in the OT he is almost as strong as Dooku. Inbetween Vos alone shoudl give him a nice fight. During the time of ANH he fought a Clone Maul and barely won, so he's got to be below Maul 10 years after - I doubt Vos is extremely far behind Maul. He beat Sora Bulq and Volfe Karkko (though by luck) and he beat Tol Skorr and Kadrian Sey 2 on 1 and owned Skorr one on one amongst other things. Shaak Ti isn't quite as strong as Vos, but she's pretty strong as well. She killed Artel Darc during the Clone Wars, and in the cartoon she seemed nearly as strong as Ki-Adi Mundi (we've all seen what he did with the Force while tired, right?). And Mace picked her to help him search for Darth Sidious in LOE, she was chosen to protect the Chancellor in the cartoon, and she and Vos both survived ROTS. Obi-Wan Kenobi even tells Anakin in the ROTS novel that she has very clever and has taught him a thing or two (not a direct quote, I'm going off of memory here). Together those 2 would make a powerful team, Vader 10 years after ROTS isn't uber yet, just strong. The duo takes him.


Lol i was right after all. For darth siths arguement vader can beat nobody, especially when vader took down stronger opponents

Vader wins this, comfortably in a saber duel, laughable easy in the Force.

Yeah, vader wins, Why? Well, he is a movie character
Just joking. Anyway, i think Vader may win (but he takes plenty of injuries).

Lets see... at the end of RODV, Vader beats Roan Shryne in a close match. Yeah, real beastly.

Funny how I actually made a case for the other 2 and you just come in here and say Vader wins and I'm wrong because I don't like Vader. FYI, I do like Vader, just because I don't suck his dick doesn't mean I don't like him, and just because I don't think Vader can take out Vos and Shaak Ti 2 on 1 and because I'm not in love with him so much as to think he beats the man who put up a good fight against Yoda doesn't mean that I think he can't beat anybody. Vos and Shaak Ti are quite a ways above TPM Kenobi and QGJ, and they were even with Maul. I have already proven that Vader at this point is below Maul. Mind telling me who Vader took down who were stronger opponents?

Great proof.

Proof would be wonderful.

How the hell have you proven that Maul is above Vader? Oh wait thats right, you haven't. There's absolutely no way to judge if the "clone Maul" was equal to or greater than the real Maul, so using that as "evidence" is extremely fallible.

You can try to divert the attention of the actual debate by saying Vader fans "suck his dick" all you want, however it doesn't negate anything that anyone else says. Also, when you bring Maul into EVERY debate you're in, its pretty obvious you're sucking on some maul cock, yourself. Try to just stick your...arguments...and see if you can sway others opinions that way...

Unless you can prove that 10 years after Vader was already equally as strong as he was 19 years after, I win.


Well, in TPM novel states that Maul was already at his FP, by the way, so the Maul that fought Vader was equal to or weaker than TPM Maul, not above Maul, though. So either way it shows that ANH Vader is a tiny bit above TPM Maul at best, and possibly below Maul, though I'm of the mind that Clone Maul is also at FP. Clone Maul and real Maul are the same, they have the same potential, they are identical, as they are clones, so don't try and say that their not.


There's a difference between bringing Maul into debates because I know a lot about him and therefor can use my knowledge to an advantage and just going around and saying that Maul beats everybody, which is what Kadesh does with Vader.

Maul > vader in saber vader > maul in the force.

All you did was prove maul is superior to vader in saber combat which we clearly saw in the comic.

Oh and btw i dont remember roan shryne giving an in experienced darth vader trouble who still has his anakin arrogance because he took down a more powerful jedi than shryne and shaak ti later on a few years BBY

He fought 8 jedi at once in Purge, which is not too long after RODV, i would assume, he took out 5 of them.

http://www.gwiezdne-wojny.pl/grafika/2006/kwi/sw-purge-04.jpg

Vader wins this

Originally posted by kiddo44
He fought 8 jedi at once in Purge, which is not too long after RODV, i would assume, he took out 5 of them.

http://www.gwiezdne-wojny.pl/grafika/2006/kwi/sw-purge-04.jpg Yes and that vader is weaker and too hasty compared to what OT vader is. Mind you that vader nearly got his ass wiped

I think Vader can win this, with some difficulties.

Wasn't Shaak Ti defeated by one of Vader's apprentices when Shaak had favorable conditions (help from Rancors?)? This is just speculation, but, judging from the Force Unleashed art it seems that way. Oh well, we'll find out in a year.

Thats just speculation, maybe she fell from a Rancor and broke her neck. We don't know for sure what happens, cant wait to find out tough.

Sorry, I couldn't reply because I was out of town.


Except the duel in the comic wasn't sabers only, it was all out, and Maul still nearly won, thus proving that Maul is just about as strong as ANH Vader, so I win unless you can prove that Vader 10 years after ROTS is as strong or stronger than Vader 19 years after.


Who is this more powerful Jedi? And I never stated that he gave an experienced Vader trouble. You stated that by the end of RODV Vader is a beast. I proved you wrong, that is all, where did I state that Shryne gave an experienced Vader a good fight?


Yeah, and the most he ever took on at once was 6 (Tsui Choi and Bultar Swan didn't join in until later) and 4 of those Jedi were really weak. As soon as Tsui Choi joined in Vader got own3d.



Okay. To bad OT Vader isn't the Vader in this thread then, isn't it? Oh, and Shaak and Vos together would beat those 8 Jedi.

uh, no.

I would say vader takes this with many major wounds, since this battle does take place on the death star the majority of the fighting is gonna take place in close quarters. since vos is form IV Ataru much of his dueling requires flourishes and large sweeps and flips, shaak ti is speculated to be the same as of her style in basically everything she is in.
Vader is thus at an advantage, Vader though slow, is quite capable of defending against either on one on one in that situation.

the real argument is whether vader is more powerful in the force than both of them

Vader would hold vos in a force choke while he fights shaak ti with his lightsaber, much the same way he did with Cin Drallig and Bene except his speed is very hampered but shaak wont be able to use her superior agility in such close quarters, and he is much stronger in the force than ROTS vader so his hold on vos would be pretty easy

and just so you know i am a major quinlan fan so saying vader takes him isnt easy for me but true

Originally posted by alterangel
I would say vader takes this with many major wounds, since this battle does take place on the death star the majority of the fighting is gonna take place in close quarters. since vos is form IV Ataru much of his dueling requires flourishes and large sweeps and flips, shaak ti is speculated to be the same as of her style in basically everything she is in.
Vader is thus at an advantage, Vader though slow, is quite capable of defending against either on one on one in that situation.

the real argument is whether vader is more powerful in the force than both of them

Vader would hold vos in a force choke while he fights shaak ti with his lightsaber, much the same way he did with Cin Drallig and Bene except his speed is very hampered but shaak wont be able to use her superior agility in such close quarters, and he is much stronger in the force than ROTS vader so his hold on vos would be pretty easy

and just so you know i am a major quinlan fan so saying vader takes him isnt easy for me but true


ignore the middle section i am tired i mean " vader is more powerful than both of them in the force thus......"

Originally posted by darthsith19
Sorry, I couldn't reply because I was out of town.


Except the duel in the comic wasn't sabers only, it was all out, and Maul still nearly won, thus proving that Maul is just about as strong as ANH Vader, so I win unless you can prove that Vader 10 years after ROTS is as strong or stronger than Vader 19 years after.
Wrong because we havnt actually seen vader even trying to use any of his force attacks nor did he try to use the environment to his advantage. Obviously he has been dueling maul throughout the comic. Or because maul is so relentless with the saber he couldnt back out in time to attack with the force?

And by the way what force powers did maul display to even put him close to vader?
Originally posted by darthsith19

Who is this more powerful Jedi? And I never stated that he gave an experienced Vader trouble. You stated that by the end of RODV Vader is a beast. I proved you wrong, that is all, where did I state that Shryne gave an experienced Vader a good fight? Um no. It was JJ who said by the end of RODV vader is a beast. To me RODV vader is nothing compared to what he is in the OT


Originally posted by darthsith19

Yeah, and the most he ever took on at once was 6 (Tsui Choi and Bultar Swan didn't join in until later) and 4 of those Jedi were really weak. As soon as Tsui Choi joined in Vader got own3d. Um no had it been 1v1 vader would have killed tsui choi and great logic you have because if vader kills them = they weak. Guess what vader has killed the dark woman when he finally resorted to the force as he isnt too great with the lightsaber.
Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay. To bad OT Vader isn't the Vader in this thread then, isn't it? Oh, and Shaak and Vos together would beat those 8 Jedi. Anti-vader hm? And zomg how is vos and shaak ti going to take on those 8 jedis? Seeing that vaders apprentice in the force unleashed literally killed shaak ti whom the apprentice is even weaker than vader?

Too bad you actually dont read. Because the thread maker said this is 10 years after ROTS which is 9 years before the OT. And this vader may very well be much stronger than RODV vader who already took down an army of wookies and slaughtered 2 jedi knights easily

And what force attacks could vos and shaak do to take vader down? Right none and you have yet to even state HOW they are going to win because all you have done is severely down played vader

In saber duel it would be close. In force duel Vader wins, obviously. Vader would also win in an all out duel.

Vader wins this easily in the Force and with little difficulty with sabers, what did Vos and Shak Ti do , to be considered great with sabers?

1. Vos and Ti >>> Cin and Bene
2. ROTS pre-suit Vader >> Vader halfway between ROTS and ANH
3. Vader doesn't ever fight Cin while Force Choking anybody. He also never Force Chokes Bene, he puts his hand around her throat.


If Vader didn't use the Force then he was either:
A. Unconfident that he could beat Maul with the Force

or

B. Stupid

Either one makes him closer to Maul. It wasn't a sabers only fight, it was an all-out fight. If Vader didn't use the Force that only reflects badly on him and it doesn't change the fact that Maul was winning 99% of the fight.


Unfortunately, it isn't OT Vader in this fight. jollyjim can reply if he wants. I agree that Ot Vader is far above RODV Vader, though.


Did I ever say Vader wouldn't beat Tsui Choi one on one? No, what I said was Vader was only winning in Purge before Choi joined in, after that he got owned. It was ANH Vader who killed the dark woman and she put up a pretty good fight against him. That comic shows the other Jedi being weak, leaping at their opponents foolishly and running right into lightsaber blades, ect.


Nope, just not a fanboy. I don't always say Vader loses. Guess what? vader beats Maul, Vader beats Asajj, Vader beats Sora Bulq, Vader beats Vodo-Siosk Baas, Vader beats Grievous, there's tons of ppl I think Vader could beat.


See my other post.


Prove that he is much stronger than RODV Vader. Use feats. to prove it. And Vos and Ti >>>>>> Siadem Forte and Iwo Kulka.


And all you've done is attacked my proof, how about you prove why Vader wins.


The hell...?

Originally posted by darthsith19
1. Vos and Ti >>> Cin and Bene
2. ROTS pre-suit Vader >> Vader halfway between ROTS and ANH
3. Vader doesn't ever fight Cin while Force Choking anybody. He also never Force Chokes Bene, he puts his hand around her throat.


1.Cin is the better at lightsaber dueling than either vos and ti and while bene is really behind all of them, the fact is that vader held off one of the greatest duelists with one hand while holding bene with the other is amazing in its own right

2.prove theat pre suit vader is more powerful than 33 yo vader wasnt more powerful than 23 yo vader thats 10 years more force training and jedi hunting i know hes not as great with a lightsaber i said that but he doesnt have to be take shaak in close quarters, heck he could hold them both with force choke and laugh at them as they die i mean its not to say they are gonna take him by surprise

3.i read that he force choked her but after watching the clip i see that he does strangle her but he does fight cin while doing it and to strangle her with his non mechanical hand, picking her off the ground, while fighting cin, involves the force not just his strength, no matter how young he is. id like to see you try picking up a 100-140 pound chick off the ground with just your left hand and do you think she just stood there and took it he had to have a pretty tight grip

Yes, Cin is a little better than Vos and a little more ahead of Shaak, but overall he ane Bene are far below them. Yeah, he held Cin off with one hand, big deal, fighting with one hand isn't extremely impressive, as a matter of fact, some duelists prefer to fight using one hand, it's not like him using one hand was the same as him at half power or something.


You do know that the injuries Vader sustained on Mustafar decreased his power a LOT, don't you? And he slowly got them back, but right after getting injured and getting in the suit he was barely able to beat Bol Chatak, who is leagues above ROTS Kenobi. At the time of ANH he was barely able to beat Maul even, should be good enough proof that ROTS Vader > OT Vader or, as a bare minimum, Vader halfway between ROTS and ANH.


Oh, Anakin is definately stronger than I am. I don't remember him actually picking her up, though, are you certain that he did?

OT vader is way more powerful in the force than RoTS vader why would and half way between means that he's still more powerful, he has had 10 years to get used to that suit

the whole maul thing is pointless as vader barely used the force cause he was taken by surprise because maul is a very steathy assassin but vos and shaak arnt and vader would surely sense them coming a mile away

Why u keep saying RoTS vader is more powerful in the force than OT vader is beyond me

give me a good reason y vader couldnt simply force choke them both and end it at that?

Originally posted by alterangel
OT vader is way more powerful in the force than RoTS vader why would and half way between means that he's still more powerful, he has had 10 years to get used to that suit

the whole maul thing is pointless as vader barely used the force cause he was taken by surprise because maul is a very steathy assassin but vos and shaak arnt and vader would surely sense them coming a mile away

Why u keep saying RoTS vader is more powerful in the force than OT vader is beyond me

give me a good reason y vader couldnt simply force choke them both and end it at that?
1. Vader in ANH > ROTS Vader, yes, but not by as much as your saying. Halfway inbetween is debatable. What has Vader done in the 10 years after ROTS w/ the Force that is so impressive?

2. Vader wasn't taken by surprise when he fought Maul, have you even read the friggin' comic?

3. Show me where I ever said ROTS Vader > OT Vader with the Force.

4. If Force Choking weaker opponents ends everything how come Revan didn't Force Choke Bastila and her fellow Jedi when they were about to fight with sabers? How come Vader didn't choe all the Jedi in Purge, how come Vader didn't choke Bene and Cin at the same time with the Force? It's because you can survive w/out oxygen for 3 minutes - during that time Vos and Ti could cut up Vader w/ their sabers while Vader is busy trying to Choke them.

So DS your saying in force powers that ROTS Anakin/Vader is stronger than ANH Vader, wtf?

Originally posted by kiddo44
So DS your saying in force powers that ROTS Anakin/Vader is stronger than ANH Vader, wtf?
OH MY GOD, for about the twentieth time, WHERE THE FVCK DID I EVER SAY THAT ROTS VADER > OT VADER WITH THE FORCE??!!! I SAID OVERALL!!!

He is not better overall

first off reven was up against 4 jedi instead of 2
and anakin didnt do that because he liked fighting with his lighsaber

and yes i have read the comic and maul just leaps at vader, do you honestly think vader expected a tattooed gymnist with a double bladed lightsaber to leap out at him and start cutting away?

and not much is known of vader during this time and how powerful he was its all approximation and by approximation vader would be strong if he had to hunt friggin JEDI!!! across the galaxy

he could hold them in a force choke away from him so they couldnt use thier lightsabers

Originally posted by darthsith19
1. Vos and Ti >>> Cin and Bene
2. ROTS pre-suit Vader >> Vader halfway between ROTS and ANH
3. Vader doesn't ever fight Cin while Force Choking anybody. He also never Force Chokes Bene, he puts his hand around her throat.
A >b > c?
Originally posted by darthsith19

If Vader didn't use the Force then he was either:
A. Unconfident that he could beat Maul with the Force
Or hasty as he decided to be dumb enough to challenge maul and just to let you know maul is completely an unknown to him in terms of fighting.


Originally posted by darthsith19

Either one makes him closer to Maul. It wasn't a sabers only fight, it was an all-out fight. If Vader didn't use the Force that only reflects badly on him and it doesn't change the fact that Maul was winning 99% of the fight. Zomg then i guess TPM reflects badly on maul as he didnt really use the force to take down qui gon or obiwan in the midst of the duel. Faulty logic and by the way in ANH and ROTJ vader didnt use the force either so i guess that means he is an idiot? Well apparantly his apprentice killed shaak ti and vaders apprentice is no where even close to vader in power

Originally posted by darthsith19

Unfortunately, it isn't OT Vader in this fight. jollyjim can reply if he wants. I agree that Ot Vader is far above RODV Vader, though.
Right and force unleashed vader is lets say around 10 years later of rodv? By then he should have considerably grown stronger
Originally posted by darthsith19

Did I ever say Vader wouldn't beat Tsui Choi one on one? No, what I said was Vader was only winning in Purge before Choi joined in, after that he got owned. It was ANH Vader who killed the dark woman and she put up a pretty good fight against him. That comic shows the other Jedi being weak, leaping at their opponents foolishly and running right into lightsaber blades, ect. Right and purge took place what? 3-5 weeks after ROTS when he has yet to learn anything? When he is still hasty and cocky? And by the way the dark woman DID put up a good fight, Until vader got serious and used the force

Originally posted by darthsith19

Nope, just not a fanboy. I don't always say Vader loses. Guess what? vader beats Maul, Vader beats Asajj, Vader beats Sora Bulq, Vader beats Vodo-Siosk Baas, Vader beats Grievous, there's tons of ppl I think Vader could beat. Vader beats maul? Force wise yes but isnt maul superior to vos and shaak ti?




Originally posted by darthsith19

Prove that he is much stronger than RODV Vader. Use feats. to prove it. And Vos and Ti >>>>>> Siadem Forte and Iwo Kulka. Force crushing a tank the size of an ATAT, Eaw proved he was capable of doing it and that ESB guy posted the video for you to see the other day

Originally posted by darthsith19

And all you've done is attacked my proof, how about you prove why Vader wins. 2 words. The force


Oh and darth sith ROTS presuit vader is not superior to OT vader overall. Its more of a balance since presuit > suit in sabers and suit > presuit in the force. Get it?

So overall i would say they are equals


Originally posted by darthsith19


4. If Force Choking weaker opponents ends everything how come Revan didn't Force Choke Bastila and her fellow Jedi when they were about to fight with sabers? How come Vader didn't choe all the Jedi in Purge, how come Vader didn't choke Bene and Cin at the same time with the Force? It's because you can survive w/out oxygen for 3 minutes - during that time Vos and Ti could cut up Vader w/ their sabers while Vader is busy trying to Choke them.

Vader isnt stupid to choke 2 jedis especially when it takes time to kill them. Vos and shaak can counter with a force push. So vader would just execute a force crush which will completely immobalise them and in all cases the victim dies quickly

Quinlan alone would not be an easy match for Maul.

So then if ROTS Vader fought Maul he'd be losing for 99% of the duel?


So?


And is Vader any different?


Except Vader sees Maul before Maul leaps at him, so it shouldn't be a surprise, plus after the initial attack Vader should no longer be surprised.


Oh wow, so he can hunt down Jedi, he must be really good at tracking people down, and that will really help him in a fight.

And are you saying that Vos and Ti together couldn't take down the Jedi that Vader did between ROTS and ANH? Okay, who did Vader take down during that time that Vos and Ti couldn't have taken down? Or Maul?


I think your talking about Force Crush, okay, first prove that he can Force Crush 2 Jedi at once, and then prove that Vos and Ti couldn't just attack him with the Force when he's busy crushing them.


Which brings down Vader. And Vader is unknown to Maul, too, just as much as Maul is unknown to Vader.


That doesn't bring down Maul, though, because he is a lot better with a saber than he is with the Force - logically he should fight with the thing that he is the best at. If ANH Vader is ahead of Maul with the Force but not with a lightsaber then he'd be stupid not to use the Force against Maul. ANH Vader probably wanted to beat Kenobi in saber combat to prove that he really was better, and in ROTJ he wasn't trying to kill Luke.



To bad Force Unleashed hasn't been released yet so anything that we say about Vader from it is speculation.


It doesn't matter, she still gave him a good fight.

Individually, yes, Maul could beat either Jedi. Together? They'd take him.


What's Eaw?


Right, and Vos and Ti are just going to stand there and let Vader attack them with the Force and put up no resistence.

When has Vader ever went into a battle using the Force first? Everytime I've seen him fight he first uses a saber, so there's no reason why he wouldn't do that here, and in a saber fight the duo kills him.


So then overall ROTS Vader would nearly get beaten by Darth Maul? Right...


Okay, prove that he can Force Choke 2 Jedi at once.




Your admitting this, yet Maul is stronger than Vader is 10 years after ROTS, so how can you say that Vader would take out both Shaak Ti and Quinlan Vos, 2 on 1?

Originally posted by darthsith19



What's Eaw? Quit playing dumb, its empire at war and i been mentioning this is every debate

Originally posted by darthsith19

Right, and Vos and Ti are just going to stand there and let Vader attack them with the Force and put up no resistence. resistence would be useless unless they have a force shield technique which vader will still overpower them due to his level in the force
Originally posted by darthsith19

When has Vader ever went into a battle using the Force first? Everytime I've seen him fight he first uses a saber, so there's no reason why he wouldn't do that here, and in a saber fight the duo kills him. Right and he wont die the moment he ons his saber because why? He defended and killed 2 jedi knights who attacked him at the same time and his lightsaber form is described as unpredictable which would be unknown to vos and shaak ti

Originally posted by darthsith19

So then overall ROTS Vader would nearly get beaten by Darth Maul? Right...
In the name of god you are an embarrasment to man kind. This is comapring rots vader to suited vader you dumbass was i referring to maul? Now obviously presuit vader is superior to maul in saber combat
Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay, prove that he can Force Choke 2 Jedi at once.
He doesnt, a saber lock in the midst of the duel will allow him to knock one down and quickly kill the other


Originally posted by darthsith19

Your admitting this, yet Maul is stronger than Vader is 10 years after ROTS, so how can you say that Vader would take out both Shaak Ti and Quinlan Vos, 2 on 1? Stronger as in saber combat? Yes but in the force? Hell no as you failed to prove it which you cant.

the sheer ignorance in this thread makes me want to douse myself in gas and run through a fire.

Okay, prove that Vader can Force Choke 2 ppl at once.


Okay. As stated before Forte and Kulka are leagues below Vos and Ti. Having an unpredicatble form is an advantage, but did it help Vader with Maul or the Dark Woman?


And you are a fvcking dumbass. Was I even replying to you when I said that? No, I was replying to alterangel. What I said there has nothing to do with what we are debating, pay more attention, you never said what I replied to. alterangel was the one who said that.


And how's he going to lock the blade of an ataru master at all, let alone long enough to Force Choke somebody else while not being deheaded in the process?



Obviously, since I didn't state "in saber combat" or "with the Force" I was referring to overall. Generally if somebody says "person A is stronger than person B." and they don't specify in what category person A is stronger in, they are referring to overall power.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=121

Originally posted by jollyjim311
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=121
Good job, you've proven that Vader can Force Choke somebody and use what may be Force Grip, Crush or push, on somebody else at the same time. Unfortunately, while Vader is using grip/crush/push on Shaak or Vos, and choke on the other, the one who he is choking could still stab him in the back with a lightsaber. If that was Vos on the ground instead of that fury guy, Vos could have stabbed Vader in the back when Vader turned his back on him to force crush/grip/push Ti, or vica-versa.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, prove that Vader can Force Choke 2 ppl at once. Prove that he cant seeing that sidious and dooku coul use 2 hands to shock many people at once

Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay. As stated before Forte and Kulka are leagues below Vos and Ti. Having an unpredicatble form is an advantage, but did it help Vader with Maul or the Dark Woman? Maul was an excellent duelist and mastered juyo to its highest and pushed himself beyond his limits which of course renders vaders form not so effective and as for the dark woman vader literaly overpowered her when he got serious in sword play alone till she pulled suprise attacks.

Originally posted by darthsith19

And you are a fvcking dumbass. Was I even replying to you when I said that? No, I was replying to alterangel. What I said there has nothing to do with what we are debating, pay more attention, you never said what I replied to. alterangel was the one who said that. Then say so fool. I assumed you targeted this at me simply because this debate is between you and me. Next time be smart enough to actually label who your talking to

Originally posted by darthsith19

And how's he going to lock the blade of an ataru master at all, let alone long enough to Force Choke somebody else while not being deheaded in the process? Zomg he cant block ataru at all seeing he did that to obi wan and tsui choi nice logic man. And his form includes other elements of other forms to aid him seeing that he is less mobile than before which again will question weather shaak or vos will even sucessfully land a blow. And he wouldnt be stupid enough to choke one and fend of another with a saber. What can he do? Force wave blowing back both of them and quickly kill one of them with the force or he could do what dooku did to obiwan.


Originally posted by darthsith19

Obviously, since I didn't state "in saber combat" or "with the Force" I was referring to overall. Generally if somebody says "person A is stronger than person B." and they don't specify in what category person A is stronger in, they are referring to overall power. And in overall power suit vader > presuit vader, Vader > maul seeing that overall refers to strength in the force generally

Originally posted by darthsith19

Good job, you've proven that Vader can Force Choke somebody and use what may be Force Grip, Crush or push, on somebody else at the same time. Unfortunately, while Vader is using grip/crush/push on Shaak or Vos, and choke on the other, the one who he is choking could still stab him in the back with a lightsaber. If that was Vos on the ground instead of that fury guy, Vos could have stabbed Vader in the back when Vader turned his back on him to force crush/grip/push Ti, or vica-versa. Unfortunately he would quickly push shaak ti away while in a saber lock with vos and then immobalise vos and quickly kill him while shaak ti is down and then he proceeds to annihilate vos

You're the one who said he could do it - you're the one who has to provide the proof. Sidious > Vader, and when did Dooku ever zap more than one person at a time?


How does mastering juyo make an unpredictable form not as effective? And Vader was being serious with the dark woman the entire time and she still put up a good fight.


Or you could just realise that you never said what I was responding to. Or can you not remember what you said?


OMFG, first off, Kenobi uses Soresu, not Ataru. Secondly, prove that Tsui Choi uses Ataru. Thirdly, show me where he put Tsui Choi in a saber lock.




And he's going to block one of their sabers while Force Crushing the other?


How about Force Wave, pushing both of them back, then crushing one, while he's doing so the other attacks him with the Force, how about he crushes Shaak Ti and meanwhile Vos zaps his ass with Force Lightning?


No, overall is sabers and Force, and ROTS Vader > OT Vader, unless you want to argue that Maul would nearly best pre-suit Vader. It goes ROTS Vader > OT Vader > Maul.


Ataru deals with speed, Vos would never lock sabers with Vader, as soon as their blades touched he's attack again, and again, if Vader turned to Shaak Ti to push her for even a second, his head would end up twenty feet away from his body. Not to mention he'd have to find an opening during the saber duel between him and Vos and Ti, who would be attacking him at the same time, before he could even attempt to push her away.

ok the real debate i see is: is vader> quinlan and ti in the force

if so then vader wins because he can force cruch,choke,throw them into a shaft from far away

if not then it comes down to master with a lightsaber wich quinlan and vos take

but like your argument was darthsith, vader went into combat with lightsaber first how would he fare, finding out he was bested would he resert to using the force

and if vader is stronger in the force than both and used it from far away how could quinlan or ti hurt him with their lighsabers, a saber throw would just give vader the oppurtunity to take their lightsabers via the force because (if he is) more powerful

so instead of debated how he would fair in a saber duel (which all comes down to theory and chance and timing) why not debate if vader>quinlan or ti in the force if we can decide that then its over vader wins or loses according to that

oh sorry i mean quinlan and ti take

Originally posted by darthsith19
You're the one who said he could do it - you're the one who has to provide the proof. Sidious > Vader, and when did Dooku ever zap more than one person at a time?
No but dooku could use 2 handed lightning. Apparantly you seem to severely lack common sense, If a force user can unleash an attack with one of his hands wouldnt it be logical to assume he can use both his hands at the same time? Or are you going to tell me if you lose one arm you cant even use the force?
Originally posted by darthsith19

How does mastering juyo make an unpredictable form not as effective? And Vader was being serious with the dark woman the entire time and she still put up a good fight. Because 1) Maul is one of the greatest duelists 2) Having a good form doesnt garentee a victory against a juyo practitionar who pushed himself beyond the limits.
3) Actually it was a regular duel between vader and DW until vader got serious when he started to over power her

Originally posted by darthsith19

Or you could just realise that you never said what I was responding to. Or can you not remember what you said? Dont attempt to confuse me here darth sith, The fact remains that i took it you targeted it at me simply because you didnt even bother to list the fella whom your talking to.

Advent does it, so does every member here save for you

Originally posted by darthsith19

OMFG, first off, Kenobi uses Soresu, not Ataru. Secondly, prove that Tsui Choi uses Ataru. Thirdly, show me where he put Tsui Choi in a saber lock.
My bad. Show me where an ataru user will land a blow on vader? Right yoda used ataru due to his height and isnt choi around the same size?

Oh and by the way vader can block an ataru strike


Originally posted by darthsith19

And he's going to block one of their sabers while Force Crushing the other? Yup or he can just use force wave to knock them both and execute crush to finish one off

Originally posted by darthsith19

How about Force Wave, pushing both of them back, then crushing one, while he's doing so the other attacks him with the Force, how about he crushes Shaak Ti and meanwhile Vos zaps his ass with Force Lightning? Your actually assuming that the one who got pushed recovers immediately which wont happen seeing that vader could crush a human beings bone after slamming him into the wall quickly. And if vos uses lightning vader has the saber

Originally posted by darthsith19

No, overall is sabers and Force, and ROTS Vader > OT Vader, unless you want to argue that Maul would nearly best pre-suit Vader. It goes ROTS Vader > OT Vader > Maul.
Um ROTS vader CANNOT compare to vader in the force unless you want to prove it which *lol* you can never do and the same goes for suited vader in the lightsaber category so that pretty much makes it vader is stronger than presuit vader overall judging from the fact that if your stronger in the force, you are stronger than your opponent who is below you in the force
Originally posted by darthsith19

Ataru deals with speed, Vos would never lock sabers with Vader
Seeing that sidious locked yodas ataru. so would vaders because guess what? Sidious is the one who saber locked. not yoda
Originally posted by darthsith19

, as soon as their blades touched he's attack again, and again, if
Lets not forget the jedis in RODV attacked him at the same time and both were very fast opponents

Originally posted by darthsith19

Vader turned to Shaak Ti to push her for even a second, his head would end up twenty feet away from his body.
You are actually assuming that vader does this in the middle of a saber duel blocking and striking which *lol* he isnt stupid enough to do
Originally posted by darthsith19

Not to mention he'd have to find an opening during the saber duel between him and Vos and Ti, who would be attacking him at the same time, before he could even attempt to push her away. Which in comics and novels he took down 4 jedis at once when they all attacked him

Prove that he can focus on 2 different targets at once.


1. So an unpredictable form wouldn't effect a great duelist as much as it you effect a good one? 2. No, but it would make him closer to the Juyo user to the same degree that it would make him closer to the Ataru User (Vos).
3. Prove that he wasn't serious the entire time. In a regular duel each person is serious.


The head, leg, arm, shoulder, torso, pretty mucy anywhere could possibly recieve a blow.


Yup, and Mace is around the same height at Dooku, but he didn't use Makashi, Kenobi and Sidious are the same height but use different forms, Qui-Gon and Dooku are the same height but use different forms. Hopefully you have more proof that "their the same hights so they much use the same form."



Yup, I havn't disagreed yet.

And after he uses Force Wave, pushing both of them back, then crushes one, what's to stop the other Jedi, while he's doing from attacking him with the Force, how about he crushes Shaak Ti and meanwhile Vos zaps his ass with Force Lightning?



That was a regular human, prove that he has enough power to Force Push two Jedi at once hard enough to crush their bones. And how the hell is Vader going to block lightning and Force Crush somebody at the same time?

Lol, dude, look at your logic:
Kadesh: "OT Vader is stronger in the Force so he must be stronger overall!"

Since when did "the force" = "overall"? If all that mattered is how strong you are in the Force, then Nihilus would beat everybody except Luke and everybody in the PT would lose to OT Vader except Yoda and Sidious. And Dooku would > ROTS Anakin. But that's not the way it works, cause overall power includes things besides just the Force.




You can't prove that Sidious locked Yoda's blade and not the other way around.


Lol, okay Kadesh, lets hear the proof beind the statement that Siamed Forte and Iwo Kulka are fast Jedi.


Lets see... when he fought the Dark Woman, he first attacked her with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he fought Maul, he first attacked him with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he atatcked Roan Shryne, he first attacked him with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he fought ANH Kenobi, he first attacked him with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he attacked the Jedi in Purge, he first attacked them with his lightsaner and not with the Force. Wait, he's not stupid enough to go into battle using his lightsaber first and not the Force? And once he engages Shaak and Quinlan in a saber combat there will be no chance to use the Force, because they will be relentless in their attack.



Okay. So are you trying to say that he could take down Vos and Ti in a lightsaber duel?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Prove that he can focus on 2 different targets at once. Prove that he cant seeonmg he blown back several animals at once

Originally posted by darthsith19

1. So an unpredictable form wouldn't effect a great duelist as much as it you effect a good one? 2. No, but it would make him closer to the Juyo user to the same degree that it would make him closer to the Ataru User (Vos).
3. Prove that he wasn't serious the entire time. In a regular duel each person is serious. Firstly juyo and ataru are 2 different things and vader have obviously fought and countered ataru opponents with ease and what has vos done which is impressive? Right none

And prove he was serious DarthSith. You always ask for proof when you yourself prove nothing. And no they arent serious in every duel. Look at vader in ESB for example

Originally posted by darthsith19

The head, leg, arm, shoulder, torso, pretty mucy anywhere could possibly recieve a blow. Your assuming vos kills vader with the first strike of the vader is which is *lol* utter bullshit

Originally posted by darthsith19

Yup, and Mace is around the same height at Dooku, but he didn't use Makashi, Kenobi and Sidious are the same height but use different forms, Qui-Gon and Dooku are the same height but use different forms. Hopefully you have more proof that "their the same hights so they much use the same form." Omfg your are an idiot beyond belief. I said yoda used form IV because it enabled him to over come the limitations of his height since ataru it is assisted by force assisted acrobatics which obviously tsui choi would be another user of seeing he did alot of acrobatics while using a lightsaber throughout his life


Form IV enabled him to overcome the limitations of his height and reach. He was an exceptional swordsman, displaying amazing speed and dexterity, leaping through the air and twirling as he battered at an opponent's defenses

What was it you were saying?

Originally posted by darthsith19

And after he uses Force Wave, pushing both of them back, then crushes one, what's to stop the other Jedi, while he's doing from attacking him with the Force, how about he crushes Shaak Ti and meanwhile Vos zaps his ass with Force Lightning?
Lol? You forgot vader has a lightsaber to block lightning and crush shaak at the same time. Seriously darth sith your logic fcuking sucks. 2 ppl fighting one opponent = they 2 win? Maul fought obi wan and quigon whom both are stronger than vos and shaak ti and you yourself self said maul would lose to them


Originally posted by darthsith19

That was a regular human, prove that he has enough power to Force Push two Jedi at once hard enough to crush their bones. And how the hell is Vader going to block lightning and Force Crush somebody at the same time? Lol idiot theres the lightsaber. And seeing bastila who pushed revan, jolee and junahi i dont see why vader who is much stronger than bastila cant do the same thing if especially bastila landed a force push on revan who is one of the most powerful jedis.

And odan urr who is 1000 years old also managed to push exar kun whom is more powerful than he is.

Now darthsith prove that he cannot push 2 at once after seeing bastila did
Originally posted by darthsith19

Lol, dude, look at your logic:
Kadesh: "OT Vader is stronger in the Force so he must be stronger overall!" Lol before you ramble about my logic lets look at yours.

Darthsith "PT vader is stronger in lightsaber but weaker in the force so he MUST be stronger overall!!!!!!!!"

Get the point? Nope because your logic is shit
Originally posted by darthsith19

Since when did "the force" = "overall"?
Since when "the lightsaber" = overall? Seeing than PT vader hardly did anything with the force
Originally posted by darthsith19

If all that mattered is how strong you are in the Force, then Nihilus would beat everybody except Luke
Because of onetechnique?
Sidious has that technique , revan has more knowledge of the force and did more impressive feats. Really? Nihilus has yet to do anything which impresses us. He lost to the exile which was described as an average force user
Originally posted by darthsith19

and everybody in the PT would lose to OT Vader except Yoda and Sidious. And Dooku would > ROTS Anakin. But that's not the way it works, cause overall power includes things besides just the Force. While you are right here you also seem to forget than just because guy A is better than guy B in sabers but not the force = guy a > guy b which is precisely what you have been doing.

Oh and dooku is better than anakin overall . Its just he never had a chance to open force techniques.



Originally posted by darthsith19

You can't prove that Sidious locked Yoda's blade and not the other way around. Lets see. His blade was above sidious. What were you saying again? Oh and even if sidious DID lock his blade it means one thing: Ataru users blade an get locked
Originally posted by darthsith19

Lol, okay Kadesh, lets hear the proof beind the statement that Siamed Forte and Iwo Kulka are fast Jedi. The novel stated they are skilled duelists and also the fact that they had altered their fighting style throughout the duel and from what i remember soresu, ataru and djem so are the most common among jedi.

Your shitty logic of vader cannot fight fast opponents holds no weight at all

Originally posted by darthsith19

Lets see... when he fought the Dark Woman, he first attacked her with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he fought Maul, he first attacked him with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he atatcked Roan Shryne, he first attacked him with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he fought ANH Kenobi, he first attacked him with his lightsaner and not with the Force. When he attacked the Jedi in Purge, he first attacked them with his lightsaner and not with the Force. Wait, he's not stupid enough to go into battle using his lightsaber first and not the Force? And once he engages Shaak and Quinlan in a saber combat there will be no chance to use the Force, because they will be relentless in their attack. Really? and who knows, it could be vader being relentless attacking over and over again. Seeing that as an inexperienced cocky ass vader he could parry the attacks of 4 jedi masters at once and your making the basless assumption that vader will go down immediately.

Guess what darthsith. If vader sees 2 opponents lunging at him at the same time both going to strike at the same time he would be smart enough to quickly force wave them seeing that bastila a weakling also did the same thing when revans party attacked her.



Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay. So are you trying to say that he could take down Vos and Ti in a lightsaber duel? It is possible seeing that vos and to have never done anything impressive with the saber

When did he blow back several animals at once?


What has Vos done which is impressive? Oh boy, here goes:
1. Defeated Volfe Karkko
2. Defeated tol Skorr and Kadrian Set at the same time
3. Later pwns Tol Skorr one on one
4. Kills Sora Bulq
5. Beats Tholme in a duel
6. Beats K'Kruhk in a duel
7. Survivies Order 66

Not impressive, eh?



"is which is"? No, but after Vos gets one hit on vader he will keep landing blows on him at a faster rate after that until Vader dies.


Okay, and Vader never got anywhere near landing a blow on Tsui Choi. So what's your point, anyways?


The 2 win in this case, yes. prove that vader can block lightning and choke Ti at the same time. OMFG, Qui-Gon and Kenobi are both stronger than Vos and Ti? ROTFL, no, Ti and Vos >>> QUI-Gon and TPM Kenobi. I assume you made a typing error.


fyi, it's not Jedis, it's just Jedi (dumbass). Prove that vader can block lightning and Force Choke somebody at the same time of stfu. Okay, yesa, Vader can Force Push them both at the same time, I've already admitted this, geeze, pay more attention, I said after he pushes them they aren't just going to lay there on the ground and let him Force Crush them!


My logic actually has feats behind it:
- ROTS Vader is the same as ROTS Anakin, who beat Dooku quite easily. OT Vader was barely able to beat Maul. Who seems stronger here?
- ROTS Vader beat Cin, Bene and Whie at the same time. The Dark Woman put up a good fight against Vader. Who seems stronger here?
- ROTS Vader would have beaten ROTS Kenobi but Kenobi got lucky. ANH Vader was equally close to a weaker version of Kenobi. Who seems stronger here?

I'd love to see some reasons why OT Vader is stronger besides just "He's stronger with the Force so he MUST be stronger overall!".



Show me where I said that he couldn't Force Push them, please.


He held a starfleet together using the Force, proving that he has uber telikenisis skills, and he Force Drained an entire planet. What other Force User has done anything of this calibur?

When he fought the Exile he was hungry, and the Exile couldn';t be Force Drained, those are the only reasons he beat Nihilus.



Why not? Because Anakin didn't let him. And guess what? That makes Anakin stronger.


an get blocked, eh? The only time they locked was at the beginning before the fight got moved to the Great Rotunda, and they both locked each other's blades, either of them could have moved their blade at any time.


They altered their fighting stles during a 1/4 page duel? Right... lets get a quote on that bullshit.

And a quote that says they are skilled duelists.


That's good, because I never said that vader cannot fight fast opponents, I said he cannot Force Curush fast opponents while fending off their blades.


1. Show me where I ever said Vader will go down immediately.
2. Yeah, cause Vader 19 years after ROTS has way less experience than Vader 10 years after ROTS, right?


So that's why when Maul lunged at him Vader used a Force Wave, right? And don't try and say that the Vader who faught Maul was "less experienced", because that was ANH Vader, Vader with 9 more years experience than the Vader in this thread.


You mean like killing Volfe Karkko, killing Sora Bulq, defeating Tholme, K'Kruhk, owning Tol Skorr and comfortably beating Tol Skorr and Kadrian Sey at the same time? Not impressive, eh?

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=038

Okay, now we know he can Force Push Vos and Ti at the same time (incidentally, I already admitted that he could).

We were actually discussing Dooku, though, and Kadesh said that Dooku blew several animals back at once. I think he was getting Dooku and Vader mixed up, though.

Originally posted by darthsith19
When did he blow back several animals at once?
The link was just posted
Originally posted by darthsith19

What has Vos done which is impressive? Oh boy, here goes:
1. Defeated Volfe Karkko
2. Defeated tol Skorr and Kadrian Set at the same time
3. Later pwns Tol Skorr one on one
4. Kills Sora Bulq
5. Beats Tholme in a duel
6. Beats K'Kruhk in a duel
7. Survivies Order 66

Not impressive, eh?
No because vader could have killed them all easily and hahaha surviving order 66 = he tough man? He could have been hiding! Sia lan wezz he took part in the battle of naboo and the clonewars too survived yet she got wtf pwned by vader and her bod decapitated before her corpse hit the floor.

And by killing those few people is it relevant that he is even going to kill vader?

Originally posted by darthsith19

"is which is"? No, but after Vos gets one hit on vader he will keep landing blows on him at a faster rate after that until Vader dies. Thats very funny. Maul who is obviously far stronger than vos in a pure saber duel couldnt kill vader despite relentlessly attacking and as i said. vader himself can land the first blow and keep attacking vos till he dies while holding shaakti in a telekenetic grip.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay, and Vader never got anywhere near landing a blow on Tsui Choi. So what's your point, anyways? That he CAN block an ataru attack as you tried to claim he cannot on the first blow

Originally posted by darthsith19

The 2 win in this case, yes. prove that vader can block lightning
Hey dumbshit. Do you ever actually read my posts? The lightsaber dumbass. Prove that he cant block lightning with it.
Originally posted by darthsith19

and choke Ti at the same time. OMFG, Qui-Gon and Kenobi are both stronger than Vos and Ti? ROTFL, no, Ti and Vos >>> QUI-Gon and TPM Kenobi. I assume you made a typing error. In what way they are stronger? Seeing that obi wan held his ground against maul and if you put shaak ti in obi wans position maul would have annihilated her

Originally posted by darthsith19

fyi, it's not Jedis, it's just Jedi (dumbass). Prove that vader can block lightning and Force Choke somebody at the same time of stfu.
Of stfu? Lol you mean "or stfu". Terrible Inglish dumbshit. 1) He has the lightsaber on one hand and he has the other hand for a force attack

Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay, yesa, Vader can Force Push them both at the same time, I've already admitted this, geeze, pay more attention,
ahahaha you just asked me earlier to prove weather or not he can push both of them which implied you think he cant force push them. Oh wait your c-o-n-t-r-a-d-i-c-t-i-n-g yourself
Originally posted by darthsith19

I said after he pushes them they aren't just going to lay there on the ground and let him Force Crush them! Read again. Or vader can do what he loves to do. Use the terrain to pin one down and finish of the other

Originally posted by darthsith19

My logic actually has feats behind it:
- ROTS Vader is the same as ROTS Anakin, who beat Dooku quite easily. OT Vader was barely able to beat Maul. Who seems stronger here?
Nope your logic has stupidity beyond belief. Who seems stronger here in the lightsaber category? Anakin.

Dooku and vader hardly had time to use the force dumbshit and had they did their opponents would have gone down.

Seriously darth sith your an idiot beyond belief and an embarrasment to humanity. Did dooku use the force? Did vader use the force? So how can maul be stronger overall than vader if he is much weaker than vader in the force?

How can anakin be better overall than dooku if he is only better than in lightsabers?
Originally posted by darthsith19

- ROTS Vader beat Cin, Bene and Whie at the same time. The Dark Woman put up a good fight against Vader. Who seems stronger here?
- ROTS Vader would have beaten ROTS Kenobi but Kenobi got lucky. ANH Vader was equally close to a weaker version of Kenobi. Who seems stronger here? Idiot the dark woman put up a good fight in a saber duel till vader resorted to the force and she got overpowered. So who is stronger? OT vader.

Your A>B>C is just blatant bullshit as your claims are which are all made up of ridiculous assumptions
Originally posted by darthsith19

I'd love to see some reasons why OT Vader is stronger besides just "He's stronger with the Force so he MUST be stronger overall!".
Id love to see why PT vader is stronger besides just
"He's stronger in the force so he MUST be stronger overall" when he has done far less than what OT vader did with the force.

Seriously darth sith your an idiot beyond belief and an embarrasment to humanity.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Show me where I said that he couldn't Force Push them, please.
Then why ask me to prove if he can push them in the first place? You obviously implied indirectly he couldnt push them because your a dumbass by nature
Originally posted by darthsith19

He held a starfleet together using the Force, proving that he has uber telikenisis skills, and he Force Drained an entire planet. What other Force User has done anything of this calibur? Um no, he held his ship together with his so called will and if he were to die that means his ship will break apart right? Well he died and the shi didnt fall apart.

Apparantly yes darth sith, exar kun used sith tools to drain yavin 4. Sidious drained the entire planet of byss. Sidious lifted a SSD which is 19 kilometres and buried it in coruscant. Yoda lifted the top of a mountain. Sorry Dumbshit19 but you fail yet again
Originally posted by darthsith19

When he fought the Exile he was hungry, and the Exile couldn';t be Force Drained, those are the only reasons he beat Nihilus. Fool firstly exiles a girl, not a guy. And he couldnt drain the exile as she had a defence to it. The fallanasi, tholme, sidious, yoda all had a defence to the "uber drain"


Originally posted by darthsith19

Why not? Because Anakin didn't let him. And guess what? That makes Anakin stronger. Nope. Bad logic again becuse i might as well *lol* say that nihilus is better than anakin overall since he drains anakin and didnt let him draw out his lightsaber *lol* Doesnt make sense does it? why? Cuz im using darthsith's logic

Seriously DS by your logic anybody who is good in the lightsaber but not so great with the force is better than some one who has decent dueling skills and much much greater with the force

Originally posted by darthsith19

an get blocked, eh? The only time they locked was at the beginning before the fight got moved to the Great Rotunda, and they both locked each other's blades, either of them could have moved their blade at any time. Which is what will happen in this fight

Originally posted by darthsith19

They altered their fighting stles during a 1/4 page duel? Right... lets get a quote on that bullshit. You are the only one who is spewing bullshit and who have yet to even prove they can take vader down. *lol* the fight between luke and sidious is only what? 3/4 of a comic page? So that means its a very short duel? Wrong, its actually alot longer. And for some one to switch styles it would take a while to know that the current style your using at the moment is of no use which you will find out after a while?

You want the quote? I dont have the luxury of giving it to babbling idiots like you so ill give you the page. 276
Originally posted by darthsith19

And a quote that says they are skilled duelists.
Page 275 chapter 41
Originally posted by darthsith19

That's good, because I never said that vader cannot fight fast opponents, I said he cannot Force Curush fast opponents while fending off their blades. It doesnt matter how fast you are because a telekentic force attack doesnt travel in a strait line like lightning or drain. It instantly grabs you the moment the user executes it

Originally posted by darthsith19

1. Show me where I ever said Vader will go down immediately.
2. Yeah, cause Vader 19 years after ROTS has way less experience than Vader 10 years after ROTS, right? i Drop that.
Originally posted by darthsith19

So that's why when Maul lunged at him Vader used a Force Wave,
Because it wasnt necessary? Because vader willingly took maul in a duel? Vader resorts to the force when necessary and had he tried to use the force maul could have knock his balance which would have made him fall into the lava
right? And don't try and say that the Vader who faught Maul was "less experienced", because that was ANH Vader, Vader with 9 more years experience than the Vader in this thread.

Originally posted by darthsith19

You mean like killing Volfe Karkko, killing Sora Bulq, defeating Tholme, K'Kruhk, owning Tol Skorr and comfortably beating Tol Skorr and Kadrian Sey at the same time? Not impressive, eh? Nope because vader would have very quickly finished off all those opponents as you said

And why would Vos lock blades with Vader?

1. prove the fight between Forte, Kulka and Vader was long (and my saying it was short makes Vader seem more impressive, fyi). Page number does nothing as I don't own the book - provide the quote or stfu.

You obviously have the book, so quote it.


Okay, so yes, it will instantly grap Shaak, but it won't kill her instantly, it will take a half a second or so to crush her to death, in which time Vos should easily be able to execute a blow or 2 on Vader.

You're right, it wasn't necessary, because Vader won anyways, but only because he got lucky - if he hadn't, then it would have been necessary. So are you saying Vader is stupid?

Which is stupid and brings Vader down. What's to say that he won't willingly take Vos and Ti in a duel?

Or slice his head off, which Vos and Ti could do if he tried to use the Force on them.


I was the one who said that to you, why the fvck did you just put it there, without quotes, and not reply to it at all?



Right... He could finish them off, but not easily. Karkko took on 5 Concil Members at once and the duel was described as being "great". Proof that Vader could finish off 5 Council Members very quickly? Bulq put up a good fight against Mace Windu. Proof that OT Vader > Mace Windu easily, let alone Vader 10 years after ROTS? Tholme and K'Kruhk are less impressive, I agree, oh yeah, and Vader could finish off Skorr and Sey, 2 on 1, very quickly, but then again, so did Vos.

DS, your not trying to say you think Volfe and Sora Bulq could take Vader are you?

Originally posted by kiddo44
DS, your not trying to say you think Volfe and Sora Bulq could take Vader are you?



Dude, that was the sentence before what you replied to. Read more carefull next time.

Originally posted by darthsith19
And why would Vos lock blades with Vader?
Why wouldnt vader lock blades with them?

Originally posted by darthsith19

1. prove the fight between Forte, Kulka and Vader was long (and my saying it was short makes Vader seem more impressive, fyi). Page number does nothing as I don't own the book - provide the quote or stfu.
Prove to me its short seeing that you dont even own the book.

The fact weather it was long or not is irrelevant simply because they were skilled duelists and here are the quotes

And so forte and kulka went in as a team, each of them employing a different lightsaber style, determined to off balace vader

Seems that both using different styles didnt effect vader

Forte and kulka were skilled duelists

And heres to prove just because 2 people attack one person in a frenzy it doesnt mean they can take him down

He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents

That indicates they were using ataru as ataru have alot of force assisted acrobatics demonstrated by yoda and qui gon
Originally posted by darthsith19

You obviously have the book, so quote it.
Already have
Originally posted by darthsith19

Okay, so yes, it will instantly grap Shaak, but it won't kill her instantly, it will take a half a second or so to crush her to death, in which time Vos should easily be able to execute a blow or 2 on Vader.
Which vader can parry as he held one jedi in a telekenetic grip while parrying the attacks of 3 other jedis

Originally posted by darthsith19

You're right, it wasn't necessary, because Vader won anyways, but only because he got lucky - if he hadn't, then it would have been necessary. So are you saying Vader is stupid? Nope but the fact that you are. Vader didnt have the chance to do it seeing that maul is one of the greatest duelists and pushed himself beyond the limit. This is however an isolated case
Originally posted by darthsith19

Which is stupid and brings Vader down. What's to say that he won't willingly take Vos and Ti in a duel? He would. Iv just destroyed your assertion that if 2 ppl fight 1 dude the 2 people win. Vos and shaak ti are no where in the level of vader or maul
Originally posted by darthsith19

Or slice his head off, which Vos and Ti could do if he tried to use the Force on them. And how are they going to hack at him when he uses the force? Force waving them would obviously send them back flying and they wouldnt be able to even swing their saber

Originally posted by darthsith19

I was the one who said that to you, why the fvck did you just put it there, without quotes, and not reply to it at all?

And don't try and say that the Vader who faught Maul was "less experienced", because that was ANH Vader, Vader with 9 more years experience than the Vader in this thread. You mean this?

Sadly i never said vader was "less" experienced who fought maul at that time. Its the fact he wanted to take maul in a lightsaber duel and failing to realise maul is deadly in the arts of the lightsaber. Had vader known what maul is or how powerful he is, he would have taken him out with the force


Originally posted by darthsith19

Right... He could finish them off, but not easily. Karkko took on 5 Concil Members at once and the duel was described as being "great". Proof that Vader could finish off 5 Council Members very quickly?
Lol? Sidious already stated not many jedi during the PT were even half as powerful as his suited form in RODV. And prove that he cant take out 5 council members with the force/ Whoa karkko defeating 5 members of the council? Or do you mean this :

He used his command of the Force to trap and consume many victims, before he was confronted and defeated by six representatives of the Jedi High Council on Kiffex.
Originally posted by darthsith19

Bulq put up a good fight against Mace Windu. Proof that OT Vader > Mace Windu easily, let alone Vader 10 years after ROTS? Tholme and K'Kruhk are less impressive, I agree, oh yeah, and Vader could finish off Skorr and Sey, 2 on 1, very quickly, but then again, so did Vos. Ot vader > mace? Depends on which category. Lightsaber? Hell no seeing that mace would wipe his ass But the force? Mace would get taken down though it wont be easy

Originally posted by darthsith19
You're the one who said he could do it - you're the one who has to provide the proof. Sidious > Vader, and when did Dooku ever zap more than one person at a time?

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=41&page=099

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=41&page=100

Originally posted by Count Makashi
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=41&page=099

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=41&page=100

Count Dooku is such a badass.

Originally posted by kiddo44
Count Dooku is such a badass. Definately. Hes one of my favourite characters

Don't avoid the question, Kadesh - why would Vos lock blades with Vader?


Oh wow, and how the fvck am I supposed to do that? I can't, you do own the book so you provide the proof. Quit being a dick. Oh, and btw, saying that it was a long duel makes Vader appear weaker, you know.



Oh wow, they used different forms, big deal.


Can anybody confirm this, because I'm fairly certain that Kadesh just made it up.


Who's "they"? It sounds like "they" is Forte and Kulka, but how could they both be using Ataru if "each of them employing a different lightsaber style". Oh, and right there it says he put a quick end to them, which is what I've been saying all along.


When?


"but the fact that you are"? Dude, learn how to type. Why didn't Vader use the Force on Maul before he ever engaged him in saber combat? Apparently, that's what he's going to do in this fight but why would he do it now when he's never done it in a fight ever before?


No, you've proved that Forte and Kulka, 2 on 1, can't take down Vader, which I never denied. That doesn't mean 2 different people would lose to Vader. By the logic your using Vader could take down Yoda and Mace, 2 on 1.


Mind explaining how he's going to find a break in the duel long enough to get a chance to use the Force?


But Vader did know about Maul, he knew he killed Qui-Gon Jinn, he saw him fight Jinn on Tatioone, Kenobi would certainly have told Anakin about Maul, dude Maul even fights Anakin in the first Jedi Quest book. So Vader knew more about Maul than he does about Vos and Ti.


Quote? And btw, Karkko wasn't a Jedi during the PT, and that's "not many". There's 10,000 jedi in the PT. Karkko's stronger than nearly all of them.


I asked you to prove that Vader could take out 5 members of the Council - don't respond by asking my proof that he couldn't, I asked you first, go ahead and answer it, if you can. Oh, and btw, now you have to prove that vader could take out 6 members of the Council (thatnks for the quote saying it was 6, and not 5 as I thought it was ).



So then overall who is stronger between OT Vader and Mace, in your opinion? Equal?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=41&page=099

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=41&page=100
Wow, that is pretty impressive. Coincidentally, there's no proof that Vader could have done that with tk.

EDIT

Originally posted by darthsith19
Don't avoid the question, Kadesh - why would Vos lock blades with Vader?
Thats not the point, the thing is vos wouldnt, but that doesnt mean vader cant lock blades with him. This always happens in battle unless you want to disprove this which *lloll* you cant
Originally posted by darthsith19

Oh wow, and how the fvck am I supposed to do that? I can't, you do own the book so you provide the proof. Quit being a dick. Oh, and btw, saying that it was a long duel makes Vader appear weaker, you know. Right and by your logic if the duel is short it means the 2 opponents who fought vader was weak

You claimed you read the book yet you dont have it, wtf?

If you think i made those up then goto a library or borrow it from some one dumbshit

Originally posted by darthsith19

Oh wow, they used different forms, big deal.
If you actually pay attention in star wars you would have realised that katarn stated if you change form during battle it will throw your opponent off balance which in this case, it sadly didnt effect vader
Originally posted by darthsith19

Can anybody confirm this, because I'm fairly certain that Kadesh just made it up. Darth sexy, Gideon, Jolly jim, Lightsnake. Ask them before you make a basless claim i made them up you fatherless bastard

Around 3.5 ABY, Vader had ordered ASP-19 droids, lightsaber combat droids based off the ASP-series droid, to be produced to fight him in sparring matches. They were faster and stronger than an ordinary man, and programmed with the knowledge of a hundred sword masters and a dozen fighting styles. Vader defeated them time and again, and thus ordered new, improved batches of them. As his finesse improved, they became too easy to defeat, even in a two-on-one match.

^ Jedi academy and Shadows of the empire backs this up.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Who's "they"? It sounds like "they" is Forte and Kulka, but how could they both be using Ataru if "each of them employing a different lightsaber style". Oh, and right there it says he put a quick end to them, which is what I've been saying all along. Its just to show if they are using different forms it will not be an advantage as vader already knows how to counter and when did i say BOTH were using ataru? I meant one of them could have switched to ataru but big deal as vader took them down.

Dumbshit do you fail to realise vaders apprentice killed shaakti?

Vader > his apprentice

Originally posted by darthsith19

When?

Never read the purge Huh?

Originally posted by darthsith19

"but the fact that you are"? Dude, learn how to type. Why didn't Vader use the Force on Maul before he ever engaged him in saber combat? Apparently, that's what he's going to do in this fight but why would he do it now when he's never done it in a fight ever before?
Idiot did i say vader willingly took maul in a duel? And did i say he is going to immediately use the force before he draws out his saber in this fight? He is going to use it midway during the duel
Originally posted by darthsith19

No, you've proved that Forte and Kulka, 2 on 1, can't take down Vader, which I never denied. That doesn't mean 2 different people would lose to Vader. By the logic your using Vader could take down Yoda and Mace, 2 on 1. Omg you are so stupid. Vos and shaak ti arent even close to vader in power individually so of course he can take them down you fricking dumb ass. Mace and yoda are a WHOLE lot of difference seeing that yoda is stronger than vader and mace using vaapad.

When did my logic state that 2 on 1 = vader beats any two? Why else do you think you are labled dumb ass of the year?

Let me tell you bout your "Logic". Your a vader hater and so biased against him that any one with lightning beats him. I saw that shit in bastila vs vader and guess what? By your logic R2 will wtf pwn vader due to him having an electric stun gun

Originally posted by darthsith19

Mind explaining how he's going to find a break in the duel long enough to get a chance to use the Force?
Never heard of vader saber locking them or using the terrain while dueling? Vader has demonstrated this in the movies

Originally posted by darthsith19

But Vader did know about Maul, he knew he killed Qui-Gon Jinn,
Which means? He doesnt know mauls style. Just because Guy1 knows that B killed A doesnt dispute that he knows how he was killed or how they fought or what were their fighting styles
Originally posted by darthsith19

he saw him fight Jinn on Tatioone,
Right and anakin was still a boy, he wouldnt even know how to analyze mauls movement or style nor register it in his mind.
Originally posted by darthsith19

Kenobi would certainly have told Anakin about Maul, dude Maul even fights Anakin in the first Jedi Quest book.
I caught you red handed you liar. Jedi quest apparantly is between TPM and AOTC which by then maul DIED. Nice try pulling shit
Originally posted by darthsith19

So Vader knew more about Maul than he does about Vos and Ti.
Wrong


Originally posted by darthsith19

Quote? And btw, Karkko wasn't a Jedi during the PT, and that's "not many". There's 10,000 jedi in the PT. Karkko's stronger than nearly all of them. Really? Then i guess karkko is stronger than the jedi masters. Please back up what you said. You ask me for proof. I give but when i ask for proof you seem reluctant to do so. So why dont you prove up or shut the hell up which you have yet to do either.

Apparantly i cant find the quote, Think im lieing because you cant counter what i said? Go ask JJ to confirm it with him

Originally posted by darthsith19

I asked you to prove that Vader could take out 5 members of the Council - don't respond by asking my proof that he couldn't
I ask because you never prove up. And seeing that as a cocky inexperienced vader, He wtf pwned 4 of them

Originally posted by darthsith19

I asked you first, go ahead and answer it, if you can. Oh, and btw, now you have to prove that vader could take out 6 members of the Council (thatnks for the quote saying it was 6, and not 5 as I thought it was ). Actually it says otherwise, karkko got taken down by 6 members, Not defeated 6 members, And again what relevance to this if weather or not vader can take down 6 members to this debate?

He is stronger than vos and shaak ti weather you like it or not. You just cannot accept the fact can you?


Originally posted by darthsith19

So then overall who is stronger between OT Vader and Mace, in your opinion? Equal? Equal


Wow, that is pretty impressive. Coincidentally, there's no proof that Vader could have done that with tk. Coincidentally, theres no proof that vader couldnt have done that with tk seeing that he can unleash attacks with each of his hands.

Give it up dumbshit you have failed to prove everything. ^ by your logic if i had a pistol in each hand i wouldnt be able to fire it because of "dumbshits" logic. Right and how often the swat team uses dual pistols? Never right? Does that mean i need proof to say that they can use dual pistols and fire them?

Get what i mean? Your an idiot

Originally posted by Manslayer

Wow, that is pretty impressive. Coincidentally, there's no proof that Vader could have done that with tk. Coincidentally, theres no proof that vader couldnt have done that with tk seeing that he can unleash attacks with each of his hands.


this is a pointless argument you guys just keep going in circles

it doesnt matter if he can use both his hands hell, he doesnt even have hands.All that matters is that he can use the force on multiple opponents which has been proven.

the force can be projected whether you have hands or not, an exception of course would be lightning, but the fact is vader could hold one in a grip or choke or whatever and still hold his lighsaber with both hands and concentrate completely on the other opponent

and darthsith, you seem determined to suggest that while he does that the one he's "not paying attention to" would stab him in the back!!!! im pretty sure vader would sense if someone was about to stab him in the back and he would either dodge, parry, or just tighten his force grip over that said person. And just think of the setting, The Death Star, lets think about this, close quarters, it would be pretty hard to flank him or use said ataru flips and attacks that, as ds said "vader couldnt lock" which he could.

oh and all this stuff about vader knowing maul or knowing shaak ti and quinlan is crap. In DLRDV it says that vader forgets most of his past except, obi, yoda, mace, padme, and a few others, i doubt he would remember trivial people to him such as a child hood menace that he barely glimpsed twice, or 2 jedi in a war that constituted thousands.

when vader fought maul it didnt seem like he knew his fighting style or how to counter it quickly but the fact is he won, its all up to circumstances and setting, yes quinlan and shaak ti would give him a run for his money but the fact is vader would win, he's fought countless jedi (as darth vader in the suit) what are two more jedi gonna change, and dont u think hes fought ataru users before? i mean hes hunted hundreds of jedi across the universe, dont u think at least a couple of them wer ataru users? and if he can best those jedi, and all the jedi we know he has already bested (as vader in the suit) then 2 more jedi are just gonna add to his kill count.

Vader could have defeated those guards just as easily as Dooku, so lets not have that debate again.

And to the above post, not to mention that he was a Jedi for 13 years and probably had practice matches with users with all forms, Ataru inst an unknown to him.