I saw movie 3 yesterday ( slight spoilers)

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LovelyOne
Ok I saw it with a group of about 15 people

not ONE of us liked it..even people who watched and enjoyed the of the first 2 movies asked me 4 main questions by the end of it, because they know I really love the first 2 movies and know the ins and outs of them both more than they do

the questions they asked me:

1. What the hell was going on?

2. Why were there so many trippy parts?

3. What happened to Jack/Liz?

4. Why is it based around Will and not Jack?


LMFAO

sorry, I really liked the first 2 movies (as did my mates)..but movie 3 was just a steaming pile of crap to me.

sorry to be so blunt

they, IMO have ruined what could have been one of the best trilogies of all time..

seriously..the cinema was packed..no one laughed at Jacks "funny parts.".they laughtd about 3 times max..where the hell were the laughs?

movie 1 and 2 were a perfect balance..lots of laughs! lots of serious moments too..

I thought Teague showing up would be hilarious..but...it was boring as hell! what was the point of that eh?

missme283
personally I thought it was quite entertaining

PirateDiva
Oh come now...the movie was really funny! Well at least all 4 times that i went to see it...everyone in the audience was laughing a lot!

and the point of Teague...he was supoose to be a Bad ass...he showed up to put ppl in their place! he is the Keeper of the Code and he gave Jack a little bit of advice!

His part may have been small but UNFORGETABLE!! Seriously IMO when Teague came out it added a whole other level of excitement to me! big grin But i guess thats just me!

LovelyOne
I think the thing that ticked me off personally was the fact Jack had less screen time than the rest of the characters it seems..he was just being Jack...nothing developing..it was boring as heck to me..

glad it got some laughs in your cinema..I think the British tend not to laugh so much...

but when I saw the first 2 they really did..the third..nope..you could hear a pin drop..

such a shame though..I was hoping that despite there being no Jack/Liz it could still be a great film that would capture me like the first 2...it really didnt..it made me not want to see any more pirates movies..

PirateDiva
But u cant tell me that the Parachute scene with Jack and Liz wasnt sweet....its the only Sparrabeth moment we really got and i Loved it!!

LovelyOne
I have to admit..the second I saw that scene, my heart kinda skipped a bit LOL the second I saw that I thought "what a movie it could have been" ..that was the only part of the movie (in terms of partnerships) tha feltt right and unforced IMO. I felt W/E was very forced, they are forcing W/E on us with movie 3 and to do that they cant have J/E scenes in the movie to counter it..DMC was proof enough that the audience LOVED the thought of J/E moreso than W/E..and if they saw that in AWE..I really wonder if they would be "rooting" for W/E in the end..despite will being the captain who needs to see his love every 10 years.

I mean I went to that movie as a neutral on-looker..I knew how it was gonna end a long time before it was released, I went in there expecting to really be rooting for W/|E by the end, I thought the writers would be able to pull it off, turn it around..but that one tiny scene of J/E was enough to blow W/E out of the water IMO,



also..one of my friends fell asleep during the movie..she didnt fall asleep during the other 2, she loved em..

PirateDiva
i agree with u in they were forcing W/E on us....i mean we knew the concept of them loving each other was there....but in the 1st 2 movies Jack and Liz spent so much time together and we saw their relationship develop and unvail....they had so much on screen time together that it really felt like it was their love story being told!

and then in AWE it was ripped from us and we were left with Wait WTF happened? these moments between Jack and Liz were obviously missing and the audience felt the lack of Jack and Liz as well as the critics! They completely got rid of the Jack/Liz scenes to clear the way for Will and Liz and that was disturbing to me... AWE is a great movie, im not gonna lie...i personally loved it!!! but it could have been EPIC if Liz and Jack had stayed together IMO!

LoveJackSparrow
You said it!!!!!!!!! I mean come on they should have at least gave us like maybe 3 scenes of sparrabeth but whats getting me even madder is that people are saying that they deleted those scenes and they will be on the DVD....WTF is that all about?????????? They should have just left them there!

surfchikpir8fan
Hang on to the parachute, the parachute scene! I really loved AWE favourite movie of all time - but I have to say my favourite bit of the movie was from when Liz gave her 'Braveheart speech' right through to Jack and Davy swordfighting - Will and Liz marrying ... yes, it was actually a good comedy romance "Barbossa, marry us" - "I'm a bit busy", right to the scenes of the stabbing the heart on the FD, Will being 'killed' ... so sad ... and Liz and Jack flying away! It was really face-paced but done really nicely, shocking and very tragically thrilling!

lovethemtigers
LovelyOne, I feel your pain...I felt the same way...they really messed this third one up...if I had not seen the spoilers and stuff...if I had gone into it blindly like the first two....after the parachute scene and I and Will appearing to be dead and having his own destiny as Captain of the FD, I would assume Jack and Liz were going to stay together.....and especially after all the promotional stuff that hinted at J/e....like them being sold together in a combo Pirate attack pack...jack as mickey, lizzy as minnie......the many pictures of them together.....it's really odd that when you look back on it all...the theatrical trailer did pretty much tell us eveything we needed to know about AWE..they showed us that Will and Liz were going to kiss and make up and that Jack and Liz were going to say bye to each other....and inbetween and all around the romance...there was fighting and fighting and more fighting...and just a really messed up plot

lovethemtigers
I am really surprised that Johnny let them do this with Captain jack..he seemed to develop by the end of movie 1 then more developments in 2 and then right back to where he picked up in movie 1...no character growth and development....only Liz and Will got to change....and I must say I was very disappointed with the little screen time give to Johnny/Jack....and that in the end the trilogy was based around Will and LIz.....so why do they go through all the trouble of putting Jack front and center if that's not how the trilogy was suppose to end...i dont' know...just very frustrated with the entire thing, really....and longing for what could have been..so many missed opportunities...someone even told me they saw an article ...don't have link..just a rumor..but Keira herself was disappointed with the way the movie ended and thought that her character should have ended up with a certain dread locked pirate because there was so much more to discover and explore with Jack and Elizabeth....that's probably why she didn't bother going to any of the premieres...she couldn't stomach watching the darn thing either...LOL

Ditte3
I feel like you do.I wonde.Does any of you know why Keira didn't go to premier?

joanjoan
It's interesting why Keira was absent.

The scenes with J/E must have been as good as in DMC, so the authors decided to cut them sad It would have ruined their vision of W/E ending. But I don't get it why they showed us the growing feeling between liz and jack in DMC. Maybe they didn't expect that J/E would create such a fine couple. Seeing how they are popular as a couple, the authors should have given us a happy J/E ending wink

Ditte3
This ending isn't good for either of them.

Gideon
...For story purposes, all Elizabeth had with Jack was an infatuation. Hell, she said it herself to Jack: "it would have never worked out between us". The fact that she was willing to kill Jack to save herself and Will goes a long way to prove that she didn't really love him. Canon also makes it quite final: she loves Will. She didn't love Jack. To her, Will is more important than Jack.

All you (Sparrabeth fans, is it?) seem to be basing it on is the infatuation she had with Jack. Infatuation /= love.

Ditte3
I like Will.He's a nice character.They are nice with Elizabeth.Still i think Sparrabeth is better.You may be right in some ways Gideon,but life is not as simple,not black and white.elizabeth relly cares for Jack too.

LoveJackSparrow
Yes she dose and i think when Elizabeth betrayed him and when that scene with Barbossa and jack talking on the beach alone...i think jack was thinking about Elizabeth....i think his heart got broken into bits, because i mean he said "No the world is the same...its just that everything has gotton smaller and weaker..and no body left in it."(i think that is what he said something about the world beocming more selfish and stuff) Couldnet you see his face and also do you think Elizabeth loves jack as maybe a boyfriend..just not as a husband??????? It just seems like that and personally i really still think that she loves jack maybe as a 2nd husband....maybe if will dies she will go to jack and then jack will betray her and say "You take me 2ed..you dont love me......you take me as not as imortant and thats not what a wife is for.....a wife is for caring and dosent leave a husband behind nor try or kill him or break his heart." It would be nice to see that.

joanjoan
I agree. It would be great wink

Legendary Thor
If you want laughs see the second.If oyu want serius and truly pirate spirit watch the first one.If you want epic Sea battles watch the Third one.

LoveJackSparrow
It would at least get what she deserves and i want to see her get heart borken!!!!!!! evil face MUHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Surreal_44
Well, I've mentioned this before about Jack and Elizabeth, but I'll try again here.


What happened to Jack and Elizabeth's relationship?


I can't believe I have to explain this but....Elizabeth killed Jack.


Yep. I know. Shocking as it may seem, that one, tiny, insignificant little act of Elizabeth's (using Jack's trust in her to end his life) really, really mucked things up for them.


Jack's first action on gathering up his crew is to decide to leave Elizabeth behind in the Locker.


Jack's death was the death of any possible romance between him and Elizabeth. Yes, I know the book (which is based on old scripts) and the old scripts had more Sparrabeth moments (there were no real J/E scenes together at all, even then), but in the end I think this is actually better. Jack and Elizabeth don't have anymore romance, but they do have a great friendship now, and so do Will and Jack...that's going to be important for all three of them, and I'm glad they were able to stabilize and preserve all of the friendships of the trio. big grin

Ditte3
Keep telling that yourself,darling.As I said things arenot as simple as that

lovethemtigers
I get what you are saying Surreal...I know Elizabeth killed jack....but this was a stupid movie....so what....I am a big historical romance junkie...and many many times the heroine and hero do unspeakable things to each other all because they are fighting their true feelings.....and that's how I've always viewed Jack and liz....from the moment she called him "dispicable" in Movie 1...I was like Wow this is like they just stepped out of one of my favorite romance novels....it's the friction, the fighting, the denials and then the ultimate caving in to one's feelings....

and you know what else gave me hope was when I heard Keira say in an inteveiw that her's and Will's relationship was falling apart while something quite interesting develops between her and Jack..and that was Keira's interpretation...and they even commented on that in the commentaries.....T and T themselves....I guess I wouldn't be this crazy about it if they hadn't of made Jack look like a lovesick puppy that got duped by a girl.....cuz that is what it seems like...cuz we know taht Jack was vexed by Elizabeth, that she played into his thoughts....he didn't know what he wanted because he was confused by her and then the moment he sees her in DMC he can't help flirting with her...he is drawn to her....they are very much alike...he enjoys the challenging conversations with her.....and if in fact that she knew Jack was vunerable and used that against him, then it just makes me dislike Elizabeth and she doesn't deserve Will either....

that's my opinion and interpretation of this Surreal...and I know what you are saying...but...can't help thinking that they could have over come it as they do in Romance Novels.....but I know this wasn't a romance novel it was a Pirate movie...

But Disney even promoted Liz and Jack as couple to some degree......

Oh well, I don't even know why I am rehashing all this, it's all water under the bridge anyways...and if we wont' to be disappointed with the movie...and sad that we didn't get any great j/e scenes...then that's our right, right?????

joanjoan
You're right, Liz took advantage of Jack's weakness. She killed him in a vary mean way. That fact makes me dislike her. However she was the only woman in the movie Jack had a feelings for. Jack forgave her that she'd killed him. He didn't even try to get revenge. It must have been love. I bet that she chose Will because she was convinced that it war right thing to do and after killing jack she probably believed that her relationship with him was impossible so she said yes to will. At least i want to believe that she didn't love Will so much. Even Keira believed in Sparrabeth big grin

Gideon
This is what I don't get; if you want to debate "Jack 'n 'Liz" versus "Will 'n 'Liz", go ahead. But do so logically. Otherwise, just agree to disagree. I've never met a Sparrabeth fan who can actually debate the issue. The fact that Elizabeth cares for Jack is obvious. Did I deny it? Hardly. The difference is: caring for someone is so much more different than loving them. Logic concludes that Elizabeth simply had a temporary infatuation with Jack. I get it. He's a 'redeemed sinner', a bad boy. Women like it. But she clearly showed a much greater devotion and love for Will. She was willing to kill Jack to save herself and Will, and ultimately, she chose Will knowing that she would only be able to see him once every ten years, and according to an interview, "their true love" was what broke Will's curse after the AWE credits.

From a storypoint perspective and logic (the only two things you can adequetly debate), Elizabeth cares for Jack as a friend, deeply. But she loves Will and cares for him to a much deeper degree.

I don't mean to sound harsh at all, but all you have in the end is: "Johnny and Keira had more chemistry than Orlando and Keira." When it comes to a debate, that isn't a suggested route of defense.

My advice: just agree to disagree and read the fanfiction.

potcfan2003
honestly, I was very happy with this movie.. sure it could have been funnier, but it was funnier the second time i saw it.. I really liked the ending, kind of bitter sweet. I really don't get how someone could hate any of the POTC movies... it has comedy, mystery, love, tragedy, and action. it's like all the best types of movies rolled into one awesome triology. Not to offend anyone, but I think that the only way someone could hate POTC is if they either don't understand it, or hate going to see movies, or just simply are boring suares that analize everything to death to suck the fun out of it. The thing I liked best about this movie is that Will and Elizabeth grew and their realationship grew. I'm glad they got their ending. and to all you sparrabethers, I really do think that Jack is better off alone, and able to go wherever he pleases without a wife or family to worry about. Don't you think that Jack having a family would totally ruin his character's being free. Besides, a sparrabeth ending wouldn't be good for Liz either because now she wouldn't be able to settle down and have a family. To sum it all up,Will and Liz are the ultimate couple, and Jack would rather sail the seas without responsibilities. And I think that this movie is awesome!!

PirateDiva
Originally posted by LoveJackSparrow
You said it!!!!!!!!! I mean come on they should have at least gave us like maybe 3 scenes of sparrabeth but whats getting me even madder is that people are saying that they deleted those scenes and they will be on the DVD....WTF is that all about?????????? They should have just left them there!

Yes Sparrabeth scenes were deleted out of the final cut! I know for sure there was scene between Jack and Liz during the Parley scene on the sand Bar where Beckett burned Jack out and i think Liz said something then Beckett says something like Jack tried to ensure that i took everyone except Elizabeth....then Liz was like what would Jack want with me?? or something? And then Jack leans over to Liz and says something like "Im not admitting to anything but Even if what Beckett was saying were true, there is no chance in that happening now....(leans closer to Liz and asks) Is there?" and she looks at him and then he says something else!

But its was a Sparrabeth moment where Jack sort of hinted of a future together!

These are pics to accompany this deleted scene and to prove the scene has been shot:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/POTC/potc3471.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/pinkdiva71803/POTC/potc3470.jpg

joanjoan
This scene makes jack even more defeated by Will sad He tries, he doesn't give up but she doesn't change her mind.

Surreal_44
Jack is hinting that a future with Elizabeth would never happen now. I know the moment was filmed (so were lots of others with James and Weatherby), but most of them were drastically changed both for time contraints, and because they took the film in a different direction.


They basically removed any real hint of Jack being in love with Elizabeth from the original draft of the film to what they decided to keep. I don't know if any of the James/Weatherby scenes or Jack/Elizabeth scenes will be added in, since it contradicts the movie so much.


What I think will be in deleted scenes, if they get to it, would be an extension of the Jack/Beckett scene, James/Elizabeth (depending on the wording), Jack/Will, Will/Beckett/Jones (depending again on wording), Jack/Gibbs at the Brethren Meeting (there was a whole bit of dialogue cut), DJ and Calypso, Will/Elizabeth (pre-wedding), and then an extended Strumpet/Jack/Gibbs scene.


They changed a lot of James and Weatherby scenes to make James less complicit in Weatherby's murder (in the original draft, James finds the body but does nothing), and Weatherby was supposed to attempt to stab the heart (thank god that got cut. I hope it's NOT a deleted scene).


For Jack and Elizabeth, I think they wanted to 'uncomplicate' things. Make Jack angry at her, and also, it's one less story line to follow. The only thing that the deleted J/E 'moments' show is that Elizabeth time and time again shows that she doesn't love Jack. It would have been painful to watch, and it's so much better to just have them be friends rather than have Jack shown to be in some sort of unrequitted love with Elizabeth.

Even in the old drafts of the script, it is obvious that Elizabeth's choice has always been Will. Jack was basically nothing to her...look at that scene that you pointed out, PirateDiva, she didn't even get what Jack would want with her. Romance with Jack is totally NOT on her mind that she's surprised and it appears to be, slightly annoyed with Jack over it. Did you really want to see her reject him again?


Too soap-operaish for me. I'm really happy that the relationship has come full-circle. I was worried for a while that they WOULD make it unrequitted love for Jack, and it totally doesn't fit his character at all.

Surreal_44
Originally posted by joanjoan
This scene makes jack even more defeated by Will sad He tries, he doesn't give up but she doesn't change her mind.


Sorry for the double post, but wanted to say, "EXACTLY". It's good that they cut out all of the "Jack loves Lizzie but Lizzie doesn't love Jack" moments from the film, because, eh....they would have been depressing to watch.


ALSO, it makes Jack look like an utter and complete bastard, and I think that they have to be very careful to not do that, or else people won't like him anymore.

PirateDiva
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Sorry for the double post, but wanted to say, "EXACTLY". It's good that they cut out all of the "Jack loves Lizzie but Lizzie doesn't love Jack" moments from the film, because, eh....they would have been depressing to watch.


You know if Liz was going to stay with Will then yes....its a good thing they took out the Liz/Jack scenes cause then i would have really been upset that they shared beautiful moments only for her to still stay with Will.

Although seeing those scenes would have been nice! love

potcfan2003
every body check out my site!!!! the link might not work, so copy and paste it into your address bar thing.... oh yeah, and take my quizzes and polls... www.freewebs.com/potcfan2003

LovelyOne
one of my mates said something interesting to me..

I was quite drunk at the time and so was he

but he said "when he's sitting in the boat at the end, and drinks the rum..the bottle means full circle..he ends up in the boat that he did from movie 1..everything went round in circle and ended up as it was at the start of movie 1"....he then added..."what a load of time I wasted watching the second and 3rd movie if it was to end up EXACTLY the same"

EDIT - PS sorry about the first post in this thread..I was just kinda disappointed..the movie was OK..but not great it could have been epic..we shold have watched spider man 3 instead me thinks, they know how to do it right I assume? main character gets main girl by the end of it?

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Well, I've mentioned this before about Jack and Elizabeth, but I'll try again here.


What happened to Jack and Elizabeth's relationship?


I can't believe I have to explain this but....Elizabeth killed Jack.



I'm afraid thats not a good defence that she doesn't love him..in most love stories & melodramas..the female does something stupid when she is threatened by the one she loves, but doesn't want to love..even T&T said that in the commentary in terms of her being threatened by Jack so thats one reason why she killed him..and they even suggest that she desires him just as much as he does her but pulls away again..

T&T need to STOP toying with peoples minds..pisses me off big time..they should have just flat out said "thats the end of J/E" because there wasn't even a smidgen of it in AWE anyway! LOL..they dragged us along as if we were dogs to a bone believing that there would be more J/E..if they said it ended in the commentary of movie 2..do you really think that would be a wise move?.

Because by that point I'm almost certain they had realised that J/E was something mega to the franchise and if movie 3 was to be success they couldn't say it had ended with movie 2

"missed opportunities with movie 3" - T&T..

oh hell yeah! and they know it!.

LovelyOne
Movie 2 - was truly epic.... why? because Captain Jack appeared to go down fighting for the woman he loved. that shot of him being eaten, sword raised ready to fight was just IT..it made it oh so epic..

Movie 3 - forgettable..why?

because it wasn't even based around the main character

how the heck was this supposed to be a memorable movie if the main reason everyone goes to watch it is barley in the movie? and NOTHING happens to his character??

..talk about going out on a whimper DAMN.. the last shot is of everyones least favorite of the trio trying to look all herioic..and Jacks lst shot was of him on a shitty boat..

EDIT - lets now see if movie 3 gets to a billion ay?

a sequel to a movie will get a very high gross because a movie's gross depends on how well loved the LAST movie was..so its not high because its a good movie..its high because the last one was good.

it will get to a billion however, if people are feeling it as much as movie 2 once they have seen it,

potcfan2003
First of all, they didn't have so many seens of Jack, but that's because he had no story really. I mean, he went into Davy Jones locker, came out, and did wat he always does... trick people and be dishonest, as well as tick villians off. but Will and Liz's characters grew. Will tricked jack for a change, became a real pirate, got married, died, stabbed DJ's heart, became captain of the FD, and had a kid. Liz got married, made up with Will, had her father die, kissed 3 different guys, had a kid, had her husband die, witnessed like 3 deaths, became the pirates king,became a pirate lord, and waited for 10 years on an island for her true love. Jack- got into the locker, got out, said goodbye to liz, and did stuff that he's done in every movie. Jack pulling off a big trick or switching things up would have been a repeat. the only thing that jack did that showed even the least bit of character growth was save Will.

IheartPocky
I finally got to see AWE again yesterday! And I liked willabeth more i think. it just seemed better to me than it did before. I'm thinking of it now as, Jack loves Elizabeth as a friend and he cares for Will too. And when he saw Lizzie freaking out when will was dying, there was no way he was just gonna take lizzie for himself. When she was leaving he was sad, but he was happy for her too. And Jack's ending is better for me too. I was very upset that it ended with him without his ship, what he worked so hard to get back in movie 1. But the thing is, his ship is freedom to him, BUT the fountain of youth is ultimate freedom!

I actually had a fuzzy feeling for Lizzie and will during their marriage scene. I guess I sorta tried to look at the things from Jack's POV or Lizzie's POV. I also was thinking when will was dying, "Wow, this has been rough for her! Her dad dies, James dies, and now her first love.. her fiance?" If Will had died, all she would have is Jack.. and it seems a little uncomfortable to me. I mean, she knows him and is friends with him... But she's known Will all her life.. and James and her father.

I still love the idea of Jack and Lizzie though.. I think they could've really had some potential. But alas my friends.. It would've never worked out between them.

potcfan2003
EXACTLY!!! MY POINT EXACTLY!!! THANK YOU

tee_pirategirl
Well potcfan2003 about what u said about JAck not growing...I agree but I think that was their main mistake I think!

He WAS growing. He was growing a bit in COTBP and rapidly in DMC but it was like they hit him over the head with an oar to stop his character from progressing...they could have him develope if they wanted to and please don't anyone say they couldn't have.

He didn't even need to be with Elizabeth for that to happen.

Ofcourse MOST ppl weren't even seeing his growth through the first two.


And I also have to say this about the whole "liz killed Jack thing" .
Lets say I agree that liz doesn't love Jack and he doesn't love her and they weren't meant to be together but I don't think that the whole liz killing him is a proof of that.

I think her love for will is proof of that(I mean that WE should be together), I think her SACRIFICING JAck for Will is proof of that, I think how she looks when will dies is proof of that....

However I think Lizzie killed JAck not ONLY because she wanted to save will but also because she wanted to slake her lust at the same time.(as T&T said)

And yes I think JAck hates Liz for it but is also proud of her for being a pirate...she proved him right afterall and he proved her right and so they keep setting up things that neither can win.

So yes I am indeed talking too much again lol big grin


I'm just saying that even if I agree that liz has no feelings for JAck. The death scene isn't proof of that.

It IS proof that liz didn't love Jack..if she did she wouldn't have drowned him.

But it does prove that she has feelings for him...she wouldn't have drowned him if she didn't. big grin

joanjoan
I agree. Poor all handsome boys standing on her way, if they attract her she will kill them big grin wink

I don't like that the authors push Jack aside in AWE. What they show in AWE is his madness and the change in his attitude toward L/W's relationship. All the time, in every movie, he wants Will out of his way (probably to get the girl), he even emphasizes it during the negotiations with Beckett. He's a pirate so he fights to get what he wants. However he saves Will at the end. I'm not sure if he would have done this if he hadn't seen Liz's desperation. I think that during this moment he realizes how deep her love to Will is and gives up. He also gives up his dream about immortality and overcomes his aversion to Will showing that he's not a bad man.

Liz... It seems to me that sometimes Liz behaves more like a pirate than Jack does big grin DMC - He comes back on Black Pearl to save them and pays for that with his own life (Liz's act is very mean at this moment, because he comes back, helps and she shows no mercy big grin. ) In AWE she's a brave king of pirates who knows how to speak to her men big grin Sometimes I find her annoying.

I don't like Will in AWE. He tries to be sly. He would have failed his mission if Jack hadn't helped him. So he should have showed his gratitude and left Liz in his hands laughing out loud

I think that the greatest sin of AWE was not enough Jack. TnT says that it's Liz's story and it's always been hers. However they shouldn't forget that Jack is the character people want to see the most. I hope they won't forget that in the fourth movie wink

joanjoan
I'm sorry for the double post. I wanted to delete this but i couldn't sad

potcfan2003
considering that johnny is the only one who signed on so far, I doubt they will...

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