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Who wins?

Guardian- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Guardian_%28James_MacDonald_Hudson%29

vs

Black Bolt- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Black_Bolt

Joke, right?

Originally posted by golem370
Who wins?

Guardian- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Guardian_%28James_MacDonald_Hudson%29

vs

Black Bolt- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Black_Bolt

BB

Guardian is a badass

No, he's fail of a fail.

Black Bolt

I'm assuming we're talking about cyborg Guardian here, but I'll still use the term "Guardian suit" or "Guardian armor" when talking about powers and feats (cause I'm old-school like that).

Guardian's armor can manipulate sound frequencies (I can't remember if Mungi has scans of that in his respect thread, but I think he does IIRC).

Also, don't underestimate the strength of the Guardian suit's force field. It has withstood direct attacks from adamantium weapons and a number of heavy hitters.

I'm not sure how durable BB is, but a well-placed plasma burst from the Guardian armor (when worn by Heather Hudson) was enough to kill Snowbird while she was in the form of Sasquatch and had Sasquatch's strength and durability. So I'm sure that a strong enough plasma burst would incapacitate if not kill BB.

Also, cyborg Guardian also took down a weakened Galactus using the suit's capabilities.

I think Guardian can take this, probably 8/10.

Have you even read anything with Black Bolt?

Originally posted by llagrok
Have you even read anything with Black Bolt?

Yes.

Well Guardian's shields have withstood atomic blasts, but a fully unleashed scream easily surpasses that he has basically punched a hole in reality. So by all accounts his scream should penetrate his shields at full power with not much trouble.

However, Mac has a rather large advantage...speed via. thought processing and overall.

Originally posted by shksprtx
I'm assuming we're talking about cyborg Guardian here, but I'll still use the term "Guardian suit" or "Guardian armor" when talking about powers and feats (cause I'm old-school like that).

Guardian's armor can manipulate sound frequencies (I can't remember if Mungi has scans of that in his respect thread, but I think he does IIRC).

Also, don't underestimate the strength of the Guardian suit's force field. It has withstood direct attacks from adamantium weapons and a number of heavy hitters.

I'm not sure how durable BB is, but a well-placed plasma burst from the Guardian armor (when worn by Heather Hudson) was enough to kill Snowbird while she was in the form of Sasquatch and had Sasquatch's strength and durability. So I'm sure that a strong enough plasma burst would incapacitate if not kill BB.

Also, cyborg Guardian also took down a weakened Galactus using the suit's capabilities.

I think Guardian can take this, probably 8/10.

That's all fine and good.

Black Bolt can turn him to stone, solidify all the water in his body, turn him into anti-matter, BFR him, kick his ass in H2H, imprison him in an electron field, electrify him... etc, etc.

All without saying a word.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
That's all fine and good.

Black Bolt can turn him to stone, solidify all the water in his body, turn him into anti-matter, BFR him, kick his ass in H2H, imprison him in an electron field, electrify him... etc, etc.

All without saying a word.

Indeed, he is underated.

However, some of the things you mentioned wouldn't work on Guardian though such as BFR, imprisoning him in an electron field, etc. However, BB DOES have more overall power

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Indeed, he is underated.

However, some of the things you mentioned wouldn't work on Guardian though such as BFR, imprisoning him in an electron field, etc. However, BB DOES have more overall power Well, speaking and matter manipulation both give him a pretty solid edge here either way.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Well, speaking and matter manipulation both give him a pretty solid edge here either way.

No arguement about that from me.

Now the question is can Mac use his superior speed and mental superiority to simply just shut off BB's mind instantly?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Now the question is can Mac use his superior speed and mental superiority to simply just shut off BB's mind instantly?

Exactly. He should be able to analyze and counter virtually any attack from BB almost instantaneously, thanks to his computer-enhanced brain.

As for shutting down BB's brain, I don't think it would take him too long to find an antipathetic EM frequency with which to effectively negate BB's powers.

As for the effectiveness of BB's voice powers, I suppose a lot of that depends on where they're fighting. If it's near a populated area, I'm not sure BB would be willing to unleash an all-out scream, so unless the fight is in a total wilderness setting Guardian's force-field should be able to withstand most attacks.

And if it came down to a H2H battle, Mac has better strength and speed, which makes up for any advantage BB has in skill.

I still think Guardian can take the majority.

BB ftw.

Originally posted by shksprtx
Exactly. He should be able to analyze and counter virtually any attack from BB almost instantaneously, thanks to his computer-enhanced brain.

As for shutting down BB's brain, I don't think it would take him too long to find an antipathetic EM frequency with which to effectively negate BB's powers.

As for the effectiveness of BB's voice powers, I suppose a lot of that depends on where they're fighting. If it's near a populated area, I'm not sure BB would be willing to unleash an all-out scream, so unless the fight is in a total wilderness setting Guardian's force-field should be able to withstand most attacks.

And if it came down to a H2H battle, Mac has better strength and speed, which makes up for any advantage BB has in skill.

I still think Guardian can take the majority.

BB take's it, golem didn't say where they fight so, pretty sure they can use whatever they have and one scream should be more than enough.

Originally posted by shksprtx
Exactly. He should be able to analyze and counter virtually any attack from BB almost instantaneously, thanks to his computer-enhanced brain.

As for shutting down BB's brain, I don't think it would take him too long to find an antipathetic EM frequency with which to effectively negate BB's powers.

As for the effectiveness of BB's voice powers, I suppose a lot of that depends on where they're fighting. If it's near a populated area, I'm not sure BB would be willing to unleash an all-out scream, so unless the fight is in a total wilderness setting Guardian's force-field should be able to withstand most attacks.

And if it came down to a H2H battle, Mac has better strength and speed, which makes up for any advantage BB has in skill.

I still think Guardian can take the majority. Counter his voice, or matter manipulation?

Mess with EM frequencies in the brain of someone who has master control of electrons, and has in fact done the brain-EM frequency trick to others in the past to control them like robots?

BB can direct his voice at one target. And even a whisper would be a major haul on Mac's forcefields.

What are his strength and speed feats? I doubt he has much of an edge, and I won't even go into the Master Blow.

Don't underestimate Mac's E-M control, it's insanely high he has punked Doom and literally just shut off his's shield in a second due to his control. He was after all built to fight Galactus

Yeah he manipulated the minds of several people at once

However, overall power? BB has more.
==
Strength feats: Hasn't done much, best strength feat I can recall off the top of my head is when Heather stopped a commerical airliner from plummeting into the ground with one hand

Speed feats: Crusing speed of mach speeds, he also has this move where he suspends his positioning to the Earth while it literally turned under him, allowing him to travel West at high speed depending on his latitude positioning. With this "shunt" Mac reaches up 18.5 miles per second. Escape velocity is 7 miles per second . Also tapping the full potential of the suit he can go speeds faster than light, he went so fast it sent him 5,000+ years into the past. He's an old bugger now

black bolt.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
He was after all built to fight Galactus
Destroyer was built to fight Celestials.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Destroyer was built to fight Celestials.

Guardian actually has a win over a weakened Galactus with one shot

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Guardian actually has a win over weakened Galactus with one shot

Weakened indeed... and obviously weakened a lot.

Plus, what was that, electricity, EMP?
Even weakened, I hardly see that working... at all.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Weakened indeed... and obviously weakened a lot.

Plus, what was that, electricity, EMP?
Even weakened, I hardly see that working... at all.

Yes he was indeed SEVERELY weakened

Naaaa...it was suppose to be something else that the Qwrlln did to him , as Mac powered Galactus's tech at the end of the issue which teleported a spaceship armada and an entire planet.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Don't underestimate Mac's E-M control, it's insanely high he has punked Doom and literally just shut off his's shield in a second due to his control. He was after all built to fight Galactus

Yeah he manipulated the minds of several people at once

However, overall power? BB has more.
==
Strength feats: Hasn't done much, best strength feat I can recall off the top of my head is when Heather stopped a commerical airliner from plummeting into the ground with one hand

Speed feats: Crusing speed of mach speeds, he also has this move where he suspends his positioning to the Earth while it literally turned under him, allowing him to travel West at high speed depending on his latitude positioning. With this "shunt" Mac reaches up 18.5 miles per second. Escape velocity is 7 miles per second . Also tapping the full potential of the suit he can go speeds faster than light, he went so fast it sent him 5,000+ years into the past. He's an old bugger now

BB's electron control allowed him to go up against Graviton, mess around with small black holes (IIRC), turn a boulder into antimatter, etc.

Strength: Meh. BB's been stated to be close to Hulk when he's gone H2H with Hulk, has easily torn a large helicopter in half with a punch, and more. And that's without amping via his powers (which make him MUCH stronger).

Speed: That's impressive, though obviously he wouldn't be going at faster then light speeds for this match. BB's caught up with a space rocket, hit Hulk so hard/fast that he was knocked into (and shattered) a mountain side, asnd turned back into Bruce Banner, and a couple others. Though all he would need to do is shield up at the start of the match.

Any compat speed feats?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
BB's electron control allowed him to go up against Graviton, mess around with small black holes (IIRC), turn a boulder into antimatter, etc.

Strength: Meh. BB's been stated to be close to Hulk when he's gone H2H with Hulk, has easily torn a large helicopter in half with a punch, and more. And that's without amping via his powers (which make him MUCH stronger).

Speed: That's impressive, though obviously he wouldn't be going at faster then light speeds for this match. BB's caught up with a space rocket, hit Hulk so hard/fast that he was knocked into (and shattered) a mountain side, asnd turned back into Bruce Banner, and a couple others. Though all he would need to do is shield up at the start of the match.

Any compat speed feats?

(Heather and Mac feats are interchangeable as same suit, but Mac is stronger and generates the power himself. So you will see me mentions feats from both)

Haha no way am I saying Guardian's matter manipulation is on par with BB...as well...he doesn't have any . Iron Man recently went against Graivton and nearly killed him He's a Canadian villian too so by logic I have to root for him

Strength: Hey I wasn't the one that said Guardian was stronger Guardian has done that with spaceships and moved a over 200 ton spaceship with her blasts as well. Heather's suit was able to physically go blow for blow with Wonder Man and she was holding back as she didn't want to hurt him.

Speed: Oh good lord no, he did it on Earth though which brings up question of how is that possible. That's stuff's a meh! but Hulk feat is good, and Heather has actually killed Sasquatch with a single blast.

Yep, Heather used the teleportation trick to defeat Witchfire. Mac also uses the teleportation trick to avoid blasts as well, he can be miles away from the actual blast in a split second. Cheap but effective.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Strength: Meh. BB's been stated to be close to Hulk when he's gone H2H with Hulk, has easily torn a large helicopter in half with a punch, and more. And that's without amping via his powers (which make him MUCH stronger).

BB's bio listings (not necessarily canon) generally rate him at 1 ton strength without amping, and around class 60 when amped...

Guardian's bio (also not necessarily canon) lists him at approx. 3.5 tons strength.

BB does have better overall power, but I still think Guardian will have an advantage with his computer brain giving him better reaction times and ability to evade/counter BB's attacks...

In any case, although I think Guardian can take the majority, I will concede that this fight would likely be much closer than I had initially thought, but it also wouldn't necessarily be a blowout for BB.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Iron Man recently went against Graivton and nearly killed him He's a Canadian villian too so by logic I have to root for him
Probably one of my favorite fights.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Probably one of my favorite fights.

Really? why's that?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Really? why's that? It just seemed so badass for him to come out, and defeat a top tier villain, and show massive power as well.

Plus, the first time I saw it, I'm all like "Who is that Nazi butt thrusting the Avengers?"
Then I kept looking back, and forward, and finally found out who that was.
Needless to say, I was impressed.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
(Heather and Mac feats are interchangeable as same suit, but Mac is stronger and generates the power himself. So you will see me mentions feats from both)

Haha no way am I saying Guardian's matter manipulation is on par with BB...as well...he doesn't have any . Iron Man recently went against Graivton and nearly killed him He's a Canadian villian too so by logic I have to root for him

Strength: Hey I wasn't the one that said Guardian was stronger Guardian has done that with spaceships and moved a over 200 ton spaceship with her blasts as well. Heather's suit was able to physically go blow for blow with Wonder Man and she was holding back as she didn't want to hurt him.

Speed: Oh good lord no, he did it on Earth though which brings up question of how is that possible. That's stuff's a meh! but Hulk feat is good, and Heather has actually killed Sasquatch with a single blast.

Yep, Heather used the teleportation trick to defeat Witchfire. Mac also uses the teleportation trick to avoid blasts as well, he can be miles away from the actual blast in a split second. Cheap but effective.

Just saying that he has fine enough control of electrons that he CAN matter manip. srug

With his powers, Black Bolt can move a lot more, but on pure strength alone, he's done some impressive stuff.

Well, so long as BB gets shields up right away, he should be all right despite the speed advantage. I HIGHLY doubt that Guardians speed advantage would be enough to one-shot-KO BB as soon as the match started.

BB all day

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Just saying that he has fine enough control of electrons that he CAN matter manip. srug

With his powers, Black Bolt can move a lot more, but on pure strength alone, he's done some impressive stuff.

Well, so long as BB gets shields up right away, he should be all right despite the speed advantage. I HIGHLY doubt that Guardians speed advantage would be enough to one-shot-KO BB as soon as the match started.

noob

Yep no question about that, Karnak couldn't even find a weakness in BB. Guardian though is no sloutch in hand to hand combat either though.

Except not only does Guardian had the speed abilities he has superior reflexes and intelligence.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/Alpha_Flight_v1_088_09.jpg

He could potentially take out BB before he gets his shields up. It was enough to do it to Doom, didn't KO him or anyhing but he punked him and showed he could have easily finished him off.

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-18.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-19.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-20.jpg