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Hello JIA

Observation:

Buddha was a severely disturbed prince who suffered from annorexia and ultimately came to his conclusions about enlightenment after a near-death exprieince.


Statement:

Humans can never know happyness as long as there are other humans to ruin it for them. As biological creatures you will always know suffering wether in the form of minor discomfort, pain-stimuli, or emotional hurt. But the only way to minimize your suffering is to destroy other humans.


Conclusion:

Mankind should seek to be as the most brutal dictators they claim to be so disgusted with. As hummanity is under the strict law of inverse. The less men there are, the happier they become. Because thier egos are less threatend.

There is no such thing as absolute happiness....unless you take ecstasy.....

There is happiness, but you find it from within. That's the only place to find it. You can make changes in your external world but ultimately it's how you view it. You can live in a disturbing relationship or environment, but still be in your own little world. That's the key to happiness.

Absolute Happiness is happiness that you created for yourself, indepedent of external influence. It is being happy with yourself, no longer desiring anything else.

You only desire for others to be happy as well.

It doesn't meant you will never suffer. You will.

But you have to learn to choose what to suffer over.


You do not have to suffer over every little thing. You have to choose what things are worth suffering over.


When you can learn to set your priorities, and choose when to allow yourself to suffer, and realize that not all suffering is necessary, in fact most suffering is needless and pointless....then you can strengthen your happiness.

Originally posted by Alliance
Hello JIA

i do not understand why and how you attack Buddhism so much, yet you defend Islam- when you know Islam allows, even promotes, violence often.


And another thing....


JIA tells you to beleive in Jesus Christ


I tell you to beleive in yourself



What do you find wrong about my message ? And why are you so god-damn pessemistic all the fkn time ?

Originally posted by Draco69
There is no such thing as absolute happiness....unless you take ecstasy.....


There are moments of absolute happiness


I NEVER said it was Eternal. Suffering and Enjoyment are both integral parts of being alive.

But you have the power to choose which you will experience more often.

Absolute happiness is determined by each person, because what is "absolute" varies for everyone. Happiness comes scientifically from chemicals...so a scientist would argue that whoever stimulates the most chemicals in their body is the happiest... That is obviously not true, it is about each person's own will to be happy.

So there is no "absolute" as applied to all people -there is only absolute happiness to a person's own point of veiw. But as was said already, a person's own self and actions, is the only way of bringing the most happiness, so that is all that matters.

I disagree with the statement that no one can help others achieve their happiness, because that is not true. Helping to achieve other's own happiness is a real possibility, and in doing so you will make yourself most happy as well. That is seen in real relationships between people, where the goal of each is to provide for the happiness of the other. It can be achieved.

Life is not all suffering, it is a mix of the good and the bad, and suffering is a part of it sometimes.



And what is JIA?

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Absolute happiness is determined by each person, because what is "absolute" varies for everyone. Happiness comes scientifically from chemicals...so a scientist would argue that whoever stimulates the most chemicals in their body is the happiest... That is obviously not true, it is about each person's own will to be happy.


Yes, different things make different people happy, which is why I beleive it can only be achieved through one's own effort.





Originally posted by The Black Ghost
So there is no "absolute" as applied to all people -there is only absolute happiness to a person's own point of veiw. But as was said already, a person's own self and actions, is the only way of bringing the most happiness, so that is all that matters.


That is what I am talking about. Absolute happiness is when the person is happy with themselves and needs no more. People who are happy want others to be happy as well.




Originally posted by The Black Ghost
I disagree with the statement that no one can help others achieve their happiness, because that is not true. Helping to achieve other's own happiness is a real possibility, and in doing so you will make yourself most happy as well. That is seen in real relationships between people, where the goal of each is to provide for the happiness of the other. It can be achieved.

I didn't say you couldn't help. You can, in fact, that's a fundamental component of Buddhism.

I have said that you can't make someone else happy. They have to achieve it themselves, but you can certainly help them.






Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Life is not all suffering, it is a mix of the good and the bad, and suffering is a part of it sometimes.


I didn't say all life was suffering. That is Dukkha, first Noble Truth of Buddha.


Life is suffering entwined with enjoyment. It is up to us to decide which we will aim to experience more.






Originally posted by The Black Ghost
And what is JIA?


Jesusisalive


That is Alliance's bitter way of attacking me, he really has nothing else to look 4ward to.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali

I didn't say you couldn't help. You can, in fact, that's a fundamental component of Buddhism.
I have said that you can't make someone else happy. They have to achieve it themselves, but you can certainly help them.

I see what you mean. Yes, then I agree completely.



Alright, I am sorry I misread.



I dont really understand what it is, it seems to me to be no different from any other Christianity sect. Unless I am wrong about their intent, there seems to be nothing wrong with it. Everyone can beleive what they want. I dont know why he would be attacking you though.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
I dont really understand what it is, it seems to me to be no different from any other Christianity sect. Unless I am wrong about their intent, there seems to be nothing wrong with it. Everyone can beleive what they want. I dont know why he would be attacking you though.

He's been attacking me ever since I sided with Lil B against the many practices of Islam. But that's another story and off topic.


People attack eachother's beleifs all the time. Don't know why. Beleifs can't hurt you unless you allow them 2.

Observation:
I fealt pretty happy when I saw Dr.Strangelove and the doomsday device was activated and everybody died. Perhaps there can be absolute happiness. But only at everyone else'es expense.

What a lovely selfless person you are....

Originally posted by HK47
Observation:
I fealt pretty happy when I saw Dr.Strangelove and the doomsday device was activated and everybody died. Perhaps there can be absolute happiness. But only at everyone else'es expense.

Originally posted by HK47
Observation:
I fealt pretty happy when I saw Dr.Strangelove and the doomsday device was activated and everybody died. Perhaps there can be absolute happiness. But only at everyone else'es expense.


But you see...only an unhappy person takes pleasure from the pain and destruction of others. You need a lot of work

Originally posted by HK47
Observation:

Buddha was a severely disturbed prince who suffered from annorexia and ultimately came to his conclusions about enlightenment after a near-death exprieince.


Statement:

Humans can never know happyness as long as there are other humans to ruin it for them. As biological creatures you will always know suffering wether in the form of minor discomfort, pain-stimuli, or emotional hurt. But the only way to minimize your suffering is to destroy other humans.


Conclusion:

Mankind should seek to be as the most brutal dictators they claim to be so disgusted with. As hummanity is under the strict law of inverse. The less men there are, the happier they become. Because thier egos are less threatend.

However, when you take a life you destroy your own life. We are all connected. Your solution is absolutely wrong and filled with ignorance.

Originally posted by HK47
Observation:
I fealt pretty happy when I saw Dr.Strangelove and the doomsday device was activated and everybody died. Perhaps there can be absolute happiness. But only at everyone else'es expense.

No one died in that movie.

Own little world, that's it. Just be in your own little world...Works for me.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Own little world, that's it. Just be in your own little world...Works for me.

That is not what he is saying. It all has to do with choices.

Well I chose to be in my own little world!!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well I chose to be in my own little world!!

No, you can't!! I will not let you.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well I chose to be in my own little world!!

I wish it were so easy.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
I wish it were so easy.

It's easy for Deb. jk

And it works too!! You just have to be flexible, that's all..

Originally posted by debbiejo
And it works too!! You just have to be flexible, that's all..

Like this?http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/crazy-contortionist.jpg

Holy crap.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Like this?http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/crazy-contortionist.jpg Well sorta but more mentally adaptable....Kinda like if one neural pathway gets blocked, you just create another route......Simple really...

Nothing like a good cerebellorubrothalamocortical.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Absolute Happiness is happiness that you created for yourself, indepedent of external influence. It is being happy with yourself, no longer desiring anything else.


And anyone who can achieve this is a person I never want to be around. No one can "not desire." Even those who say they "do not want desire" anything have to "desire to not want to desire" by default.

That is a very, very dangerous person. A nice number of people who get to this point are sociopaths.

Edit: To clarify, absolute happiness is not possible. "Absolute" seems to mean "infinite" or "non-changing." I'm just too lazy to explain fully and I just got a phone call. I will come back LOL

Originally posted by chithappens
And anyone who can achieve this is a person I never want to be around. No one can "not desire." Even those who say they "do not want desire" anything have to "desire to not want to desire" by default.

That is a very, very dangerous person. A nice number of people who get to this point are sociopaths.

Edit: To clarify, absolute happiness is not possible. "Absolute" seems to mean "infinite" or "non-changing." I'm just too lazy to explain fully and I just got a phone call. I will come back LOL



Chit, read this:




Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Well, Buddhism helps me shape my beliefs, and the Ten Worlds can be applicable to any situation and any religion. I do not beleive in a literal mythological version of Heaven and Hell, but I do beleive in the philosophical versions of Heaven and Hell...

You basically have your world of intense agony, and your world of intense joy. Everyone has experienced both. Everyone can relate. There is nothing exclusive about the Buddhist Concept of Heaven and Hell, the way Christianity's versions are exclusive.

However, what many fail to realize is that those worlds are both fragile, and dependent on other forces. Niether of them are self-created, in fact, we have to lose ourselves in order to live in those worlds.

They exist with our permission, but we do not create those realms for ourselves. We only walk the paths to the realms.

When we "create our own Hell" we surround ourself in suffering. We may cause suffering, or allow ourselves to suffer over things that are not worth suffering over. However, the suffering we experience is created by external factors which we give power to.


Same with Heaven...we seek out pleasures, we depend on other people, we plan certain desirable outcomes, and when things go our way we experience intense happiness. However, that happiness is fragile, and can be short-lived, because the happiness is completely dependent on and only fueled by the object of our passion.

Bodhisvattva is the realm in which we look past ourselves....for we already realize the truth of Heaven and Hell, we realize that we have control over our paths and may enter and leave those worlds as we wish, and then we only desire for others to find the same freedom we have.

Bodhisvattva is something we all experience, because we have all cared about the happiness and safety of another person more than our own, at one time or another.




You misunderstand what I say. Bodhisattva is not freedom from desire, it is freedom from poisonous and mind comsuming passions, the realization that we are in control of our behavior, outlook, and mentality. We do not have to suffer if we do not want to.


1) When you have the power to decide what's worth suffering, and what's not, your joy increases.


2) When you learn to be happy with yourself, and realize that you do not NEED more, you only want more, those desires have less control over your mind. You realize that a feeling is just a feeling, a desire is just a desire, and does not need to be fulfilled.


3) You eventually begin to see the suffering in others, how needless that suffering is. You see men and women suffering through heartbreak. You seem men and women who have self esteem issues, or who are ruled by fears of loneliness, failure, etc. You see right through thier suffering, and know that they haven't acquired the personal power to overcome thier suffering.


4) You eventually find joy only in helping others strengthen themselves and achieve thier own happiness. It is a cycle of sorts. You do not desire for them to like you, because that is selfish and superficial. You only desire that they are happy....and realize the same power you have.



Do you now understand what I am saying ?

Ok I follow now. I can't argue against that at all.

How many can achieve that level of control is probably small though, but I do like the idea. Similar to something I noticed a while ago, although it was nowhere near as thorough

Happiness only comes from within.

Buddhist!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Buddhist!

Originally posted by BobbyD


Are you happy?

On the inside.

Originally posted by BobbyD
Happiness only comes from within.


But can travel throughout

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
He has attacked Buddhism before this.

Yes, he has, but why do you care what he thinks? How you feel is your responsibility, and if someone says something, it is up to you to decide how you feel. No one can make you mad.

You can only control your reactions to your emotions. You cannot control your life so that you can prevent yourself from getting angry. You can only choose how to respond to that anger.

Originally posted by Storm
You can only control your reactions to your emotions. You cannot control your life so that you can prevent yourself from getting angry. You can only choose how to respond to that anger.

Not true. If you understand the Ten Worlds, you can realize when you are heading into Hell or Anger and stop yourself before you get there. It is not easy, not it is achievable.

Originally posted by Storm
You can only control your reactions to your emotions. You cannot control your life so that you can prevent yourself from getting angry. You can only choose how to respond to that anger.

I choose to be mad at Storm!


ranting

Originally posted by Storm
You can only control your reactions to your emotions. You cannot control your life so that you can prevent yourself from getting angry. You can only choose how to respond to that anger.



I beleive you have the power to tame your own anger though. It's very hard, but possible.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I beleive you have the power to tame your own anger though. It's very hard, but possible.

Sometimes I can tell when I'm going to move into Hell or Anger. It is kind of like a flashing light in the back of my mind. I can then go somewhere else.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sometimes I can tell when I'm going to move into Hell or Anger. It is kind of like a flashing light in the back of my mind. I can then go somewhere else.


I would rather be in Anger than in Hell, because atleast in Anger you have some echo of power. When you are in hell, you simply desire for others to be there with you.


The scariest thing is to be in Hell by yourself.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I beleive you have the power to tame your own anger though. It's very hard, but possible.
Why would you? When handled in a positive way, anger can help people stand up for themselves and fight injustice.

All of our emotions are a source of our passions, and those are what motivate us to act in the first place.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, he has, but why do you care what he thinks? How you feel is your responsibility, and if someone says something, it is up to you to decide how you feel. No one can make you mad. I agree. It's also a frame of mind reference. Though some people are great button pushers.

This is how I do it. I see some of these people as mentally ill, then feel sorry for them. Damn, the worlds full of them.

LOL

Originally posted by Storm
Why would you? When handled in a positive way, anger can help people stand up for themselves and fight injustice.

All of our emotions are a source of our passions, and those are what motivate us to act in the first place.

In each of the ten worlds are the other 9 worlds. If you are going to fight injustice, you are now in Bodhisattva/Anger and not in Anger.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/faqs/tenworlds.htm

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/SokaGakkai/Study/LectLS/Lectur28.htm

Originally posted by Storm
Why would you? When handled in a positive way, anger can help people stand up for themselves and fight injustice.


Anger, like violence, should always be a last resort. Anger is definately more useful than dispair or fear, but Anger is very dangerous. It can be poisonous to one's system.




Originally posted by Storm
All of our emotions are a source of our passions, and those are what motivate us to act in the first place.



True, and I am not saying that you shouldn't utilize Anger, or that you should always avoid it. Just reserve it for when you truly need it. When you have a tendency to become Angry for every little thing, you suffer, and that suffering is needless.


Emotions are just emotions. They do not have to run your life, nor do you need to submit to them. You have the right to decide which emotions you will enact on and which you will disregard.

even ultimate happiness has levels. believe me on that . however, if you are to even have a shot at gaining that. you have to become completely selfless. practically stop existing while paradoxically still having the ability to see/feal/understand/accept, more than ever. and then you shall let it all flow through you. things that are, things that are not, and all things beyond. practically. relaxation without boredome is the best way to start for a normal man{get a comfortable white room with no sunlight and airconditioning, comfort of dry cool air can work wonders}. i suppose thats where the phrase "being STILL" comes from, not existing on a selfish level. dunno how much of that actually agrees with buddhism but what the heck.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
even ultimate happiness has levels. believe me on that . however, if you are to even have a shot at gaining that. you have to become completely selfless. practically stop existing while paradoxically still having the ability to see/feal/understand/accept, more than ever. and then you shall let it all flow through you. things that are, things that are not, and all things beyond. practically. relaxation without boredome is the best way to start for a normal man{get a comfortable white room with no sunlight and airconditioning, comfort of dry cool air can work wonders}. i suppose thats where the phrase "being STILL" comes from, not existing on a selfish level. dunno how much of that actually agrees with buddhism but what the heck.


Much of what you say agrees with Buddhism. The Ego, and selfish desire, is the cause of all suffering and disunity.

Originally posted by Storm
Why would you? When handled in a positive way, anger can help people stand up for themselves and fight injustice.

All of our emotions are a source of our passions, and those are what motivate us to act in the first place.

I'll agree with this. Complete detachment from so-called 'negative' emotions doesn't ensure peace. And just like anything...a weapon, perhaps...it can be used for various purposes. The weapon itself doesn't have intrinsic moral value, so it's not harmful unless we make it so. We can hold a gun without doing harm. Maybe use it to shoot open a lock of a caged animal. Similarly, we can harbor anger without doing harm.

My only problem with this whole way of thinking (I agree with a decent amount of it however) is that there are sufferings in the world of all kinds, and while acheiving inner peace accomplishes something good within yourself, there are many who can't or won't acheive this....and it is only through becoming more entwined in the emotions of the world that we can hope to affect it...only in embracing everything (anger, love, hate, compassion, all of it, etc.) are we truly whole.

The point is to promote peace and unity. But how is a person unified with the universe who denies within themselves the opportunity to embrace and use very real aspects of existence like anger? It's only corrupting to those who allow themselves to be corrupted by it. Without it, the person is incomplete. But any of those negative emotions only become so with our application of them in ways that are destructive to the concept of "at one" and/or "unity".

Even concepts like "good" and "evil" are, to me, largely arbitrary and highly subjective so I have to use concepts like "unity" to accurately describe what I mean by "good". And in doing so, it abolishes a large part of what mainstream morality would consider part of the good/evil dichotomy. Neither exists in my mind, or both do simultaneously...and it calls into question the whole idea of "negative" anything.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'll agree with this. Complete detachment from so-called 'negative' emotions doesn't ensure peace. And just like anything...a weapon, perhaps...it can be used for various purposes. The weapon itself doesn't have intrinsic moral value, so it's not harmful unless we make it so. We can hold a gun without doing harm. Maybe use it to shoot open a lock of a caged animal. Similarly, we can harbor anger without doing harm.


I think you misunderstand me.


There is no such thing as Complete Detachment from Negative Emotions. To be detached from negative emotions is to ALSO be detached to positive emotions...to be numb.


What I am discussing is power over your emotions, the ones that make you feel bad, and the ones that feel so good you become obsessed and unfree.


I did not claim that you can achieve a state of being where you will never ever suffer. You will suffer regardless as long as you take part in this world, in this life. The point is, suffer less.

Choose to allow yourself to suffer over the things that are truly worth suffering over (loss of loved ones, pain of someone else, etc.) and to train yourself NOT to suffer only things that aren't worth it (not being popular, heartbreak over an abusive partner, not looking a certain way, etc.)


Most suffering that we endure is needless. Notice how so many people feel anger or sadness over the smallest and least important of things.





Originally posted by DigiMark007
My only problem with this whole way of thinking (I agree with a decent amount of it however) is that there are sufferings in the world of all kinds, and while acheiving inner peace accomplishes something good within yourself, there are many who can't or won't acheive this....and it is only through becoming more entwined in the emotions of the world that we can hope to affect it...only in embracing everything (anger, love, hate, compassion, all of it, etc.) are we truly whole.





It takes a lot of mental practice and maturity to achieve your own inner peace, I beleive. So yes, not everyone will achieve that realistically.

There are many conditions in order to get one self's mentality strong. Money, decent living, socialization of some sort, etc.


However, the problem is that people generally don't care about other people. People put thier own wants and needs before others, and as long as this happens, we will all still suffer.

We have the power to help others, and we delude ourselves into thinking we can't make a difference. There are many of us, no matter what religion or background, who thnk that someone else's suffering is THIER problem, not ours.

AS long as this happens, as long as we continue to remain Apathetic and unempathizing of other people's suffering, the collective suffering of the world will continue at the levels it has for centuries, perhaps even get worse.

Everyone has to do thier part.

**************


What does it mean to be whole ? To embrace Hate will accomplish what ? It's what we do all the time, and it only causes destruction.


To embrace one emotion of yours, is not the same as embracing yourself. Also you are thinking Inward.

If you are all you think about, and if your own happiness is your only concern, you will not truly be happy. If you reach genuineness, you will not be happy as long as you realize that others still suffer greatly.

You will only be happy trying to alleviate the suffering of others.






Originally posted by DigiMark007
The point is to promote peace and unity. But how is a person unified with the universe who denies within themselves the opportunity to embrace and use very real aspects of existence like anger? It's only corrupting to those who allow themselves to be corrupted by it. Without it, the person is incomplete. But any of those negative emotions only become so with our application of them in ways that are destructive to the concept of "at one" and/or "unity".


I didn't say to deny Anger, I said to control it. Controlled Anger can be very useful. Protestings, Rallies, Laws have been changed due to controlled anger. Anger let loose, only leads to more destruction.


It doesn't matter WHAT THE EMOTION...control it. Take charge. Don't let it control you.





Originally posted by DigiMark007
Even concepts like "good" and "evil" are, to me, largely arbitrary and highly subjective so I have to use concepts like "unity" to accurately describe what I mean by "good". And in doing so, it abolishes a large part of what mainstream morality would consider part of the good/evil dichotomy. Neither exists in my mind, or both do simultaneously...and it calls into question the whole idea of "negative" anything.



To me, Good is anything that promotes true unity. Good is anything that does not aim to disunify, separate, discriminate, or lead to false delusions of "us" vs "them". Good is selflessness.


To me, Evil is anything that promotes true disunity. Evil is selfishness, disregarding the pain and suffering of others, and promoting the idea of "us" vs "them". Seeing someone as superior and another as inferior, in some way, shape, or form. That is evil.

In the American Constitution it states that a person should strive for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why doesn't it just say happiness? I think... that happiness can not truly be attained. You can only pursue it...

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
In the American Constitution it states that a person should strive for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why doesn't it just say happiness? I think... that happiness can not truly be attained. You can only pursue it...


"Pursuit to Happiness", starring Will Smith


1) Very Original


2) The American Constitution is a man-made series of articles, not a source of objective truth.

3) People have experienecd happiness. So have you, I am sure. If you never felt happy, then I am sorry. Happiness is not Eternal, but it can be Absolute, free from superficial and unnecessary conditions.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
"Pursuit to Happiness", starring Will Smith


1) Very Original


Still some truth in there... and it's the "Pursuit of Happyness" with a "y"...

Plus, I didn't expect you to catch that...



There's a difference between feeling happy and being truly happy...

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
There's a difference between feeling happy and being truly happy...


Do you truly beleive it is impossible to truly be happy ? What do you mean by that ? Just because I am not happy every single moment of the day, does not mean I am not a happy person.


Why do you think that ? A lot of people will tell you they are truly happy.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Do you truly beleive it is impossible to truly be happy ? What do you mean by that ? Just because I am not happy every single moment of the day, does not mean I am not a happy person.


Why do you think that ? A lot of people will tell you they are truly happy. That's true... They'll tell you that, not knowing what true happiness is. And will never be able to be truly happy. As I said, an unpursuitable dream...

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
That's true... They'll tell you that, not knowing what true happiness is. And will never be able to be truly happy. As I said, an unpursuitable dream...



1) What is true happiness ?


2) Why is it unpursuitable ? Maybe its just unpursuitable to you because you have an illusion of what "true happiness" is in your mind.

Hmm. I think we understand each other Kali. It was more a semantic difference than an actual dissagreement of principles/beliefs. And a few of your responses were pretty close to paraphrasing sections of mine, so it's not too different. I still can't fully agree in a few areas, but the way my life is structured and the principles I adhere to aren't really at odds with much of Buddhism, so I can appreciate the effort you're making here to enlighten others based on your experience, even if it's overly Socratic at times.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hmm. I think we understand each other Kali.






Originally posted by DigiMark007
It was more a semantic difference than an actual dissagreement of principles/beliefs. And a few of your responses were pretty close to paraphrasing sections of mine, so it's not too different. I still can't fully agree in a few areas, but the way my life is structured and the principles I adhere to aren't really at odds with much of Buddhism, so I can appreciate the effort you're making here to enlighten others based on your experience, even if it's overly Socratic at times.


I doubt that many on KMC will even hear me out, because why would they trust me ? They don't know me very well, and everyone already has thier own outlook.

However, even if one person can find some kind of strength with the knowledge I am trying to share, then that's ok by me.


Overly Socratic is okay, I like Greeks droolio



Originally posted by DigiMark007




droolio

There is no such thing as "Absolute Happiness"

pain, depression, anger, sorrow, are all emotions that overpower happiness. In order for it to be absolute, nothing bad can happen.

For every happy thing comes weeks of sorrow, proving absolute happiness is for dreamers who are not in the real world.

Originally posted by Charmed_Phoebe
There is no such thing as "Absolute Happiness"

pain, depression, anger, sorrow, are all emotions that overpower happiness. In order for it to be absolute, nothing bad can happen.

For every happy thing comes weeks of sorrow, proving absolute happiness is for dreamers who are not in the real world.



I think you are confusing "absolute happiness" with "eternal happiness"....Read the start of the thread again.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I think you are confusing "absolute happiness" with "eternal happiness"....Read the start of the thread again.


I did, and I am not confusing anything thank you.

Originally posted by Charmed_Phoebe
I did, and I am not confusing anything thank you.




Originally posted by Charmed_Phoebe
There is no such thing as "Absolute Happiness"

pain, depression, anger, sorrow, are all emotions that overpower happiness. In order for it to be absolute, nothing bad can happen.

For every happy thing comes weeks of sorrow, proving absolute happiness is for dreamers who are not in the real world.



I think you are. I never said absolute happiness is eternal, in fact, I made it quite clear that I beleive even total happiness is temporary, just like suffering is temporary.


You say there is no such thing as absolute happiness. Well, I can easily argue, with your same logic, that there is no such thing as absolute suffering.

Pain is temporary

Depression is temporary

Anger is temporary

Sorrow is temporary

Those things can easily be distracted by laughter, love, humility, knowledge, wisdom, and the like.


Now, would you argue that suffering is not absolute ? Because it seems like you beleive that suffering is a solid state of mind, while happiness is fragile. What leads you to beleive this ?


Suffering and Enjoyment can be equally strong and relevant, and the intensity varies based on conditions.


Just like our suffering is due to conditions (death of a family member, sickness, heartbreak, loss of freinds, isolation from classmates, failure of a certain goal, etc.), so is enjoyment (humor, being in love, success, birth of a child, etc.)




What I am saying is that happiness doesn't have to be conditional, and you shouldn't base your happiness on superficial things such as popularity, financial success, success in infatuation, etc. because failure will lead you to suffer, and dependency on those things will keep you with constant worry.



I learned that you can choose to suffer only for things that are worth suffering over, and smirk at the things that are not worth suffering over. If my boyfreind leaves me..so what ? There's a million other guys out there. If I get a bad grade, so what ? I can try again. If I get fired at work, so what ? I can get another job. And so on.



You can choose to change your outlook, perspective, and discipline. I, as you, should be happy with who we are, and what we have, not constantly desire more.


I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own.


My outlook has changed completely, once I let go of my petty anger, and saved my anger for times when I truly need it (which is almost never). I let go of self pity and self criticism, stop depending on other people for emotional and superificial support, and chose to only depend on myself for my emotional, mental, and physical needs.


Now, when i see someone suffer over a heartbreak, or over loss of a freindship, or over failure at a sport or art, or whatever the case, I see how they are in a prison of thier own making. These people who suffer do not see what I see. How beautiful, strong, and important they really are, and how much better they can be.




If you do not understand this, then talk to Shakymunison for more. He will teach you how he alone became the source of all his own happiness, and his life with his Wife and others is the extra privilege that comes with that.

^However, the true happiness of Buddhahood is not connected to the lower 9 worlds, and therefore, is eternal.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^However, the true happiness of Buddhahood is not connected to the lower 9 worlds, and therefore, is eternal.


Buddhahood requires almost an absolute disregard for your own desires, and a complete state of empathy for others. Atleast from what I interpret.


I think in a time where war and prejudices are rampant, it is very difficult, almost impossible to be at total peace with every aspect of this world.

I could be wrong though.

I have empathy to the point where I need to pull back on it.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Buddhahood requires almost an absolute disregard for your own desires, and a complete state of empathy for others. Atleast from what I interpret.


I think in a time where war and prejudices are rampant, it is very difficult, almost impossible to be at total peace with every aspect of this world.

I could be wrong though.

That is when it is need the most. http://www.sgilibrary.org/view.php?page=3

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is when it is need the most. http://www.sgilibrary.org/view.php?page=3


I have to read that over, that was a lot to take in lol

"I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own".
This frase is completly egoistical. How can you be happy when others have been suffering. Even plants are dying when they fill other plant is suffering, but we are human.

one thing i dont get though. for an evrage man. how do u have empathy without having any bonds?????

personally, if buddha was right. i think he meant that all useless/purposeless/tainted{in the sense that sumthing that takes u away from your atma, which i interpret as enlightened self which was untainted by all concepts and expiriences of the flesh and is one with the origin and truth of ALL things} suffering is an affect of having bonds to MATERIAL{temperorary} things, which time shall seek out and destroy. OTHER things however, like truly loving ur mate, or ur children, with all ur heart and intensity and having bonds with them in "not" in my oppinion the same as having bonds with temporal materialistic things. and the suffering one would feal at the death if such a loved one is not really adviseable to be taken away from a person.

personally i think such suffering opens our eyes more to the reality of the TRUE bonds one had with those entities and in themselves. love etc. they are not useless or tainted nor material and temporary. atmal bonds is what id like to call em .

ofcourse, theres nothing stopping you from forming these bonds, AFTER uve reached enlightenment either i think. nirvana isnt an ultimate destination{its only ultimate in perspective to the average tainted world of most sentiences} . its a new beginning once u get there{to me}. and trancendant bonds{which i think TRUE love is} wud be present even then. along with love for all sentiences and who knows what else.

lol, well thats my current tiny personal interpretation of it anyway.

Originally posted by svetlu
"I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own".


Exactly. Why should I care if someone doesn't like the way I look, act, behave, or what I do. As long as I am not hurting them, what right does another have to judge me ?





Originally posted by svetlu
This frase is completly egoistical.

How so ? If someone hates me, and I did no harm to them, should I suffer for it ?

What good would that do ?




Originally posted by svetlu
How can you be happy when others have been suffering. Even plants are dying when they fill other plant is suffering, but we are human.

That's a different story. I can be happy knowing that someone hates my guts, or hates my race, or hates my apperance, or whatever, because that's a superficial hatred on thier part, and I need not let it have any affect on me.


I cannot truly be happy if someone I love is suffering, however.


I never knew that plants die when other plants suffer...I didn't know plants suffer

Originally posted by leonheartmm
one thing i dont get though. for an evrage man. how do u have empathy without having any bonds?????

personally, if buddha was right. i think he meant that all useless/purposeless/tainted{in the sense that sumthing that takes u away from your atma, which i interpret as enlightened self which was untainted by all concepts and expiriences of the flesh and is one with the origin and truth of ALL things} suffering is an affect of having bonds to MATERIAL{temperorary} things, which time shall seek out and destroy. OTHER things however, like truly loving ur mate, or ur children, with all ur heart and intensity and having bonds with them in "not" in my oppinion the same as having bonds with temporal materialistic things. and the suffering one would feal at the death if such a loved one is not really adviseable to be taken away from a person.

personally i think such suffering opens our eyes more to the reality of the TRUE bonds one had with those entities and in themselves. love etc. they are not useless or tainted nor material and temporary. atmal bonds is what id like to call em .

ofcourse, theres nothing stopping you from forming these bonds, AFTER uve reached enlightenment either i think. nirvana isnt an ultimate destination{its only ultimate in perspective to the average tainted world of most sentiences} . its a new beginning once u get there{to me}. and trancendant bonds{which i think TRUE love is} wud be present even then. along with love for all sentiences and who knows what else.

lol, well thats my current tiny personal interpretation of it anyway.




You must train yourself to only suffer for the things worth suffering over (i.e. death or suffering of a loved one, death or suffering of another person or animal)


Do not allow yourself to suffer over things that don't matter (someone dumping you, a peer not liking you, a racist not liking the way you look, not winning the lottery, having a few dollars stolen, losing a contest, etc.)

Those material or superifical losses can always be recovered for, there are always solutions you can work on to better them.


The death of a family member is a true reason to suffer, for you can NEVER replace them.

If you can learn to value whats important, and look at material and superficial things objectively, and not obsessively, then you will suffer far less, and be happier.

i do not think it has anything to do with training. or discipline. i know buddhism is big on it and on the "law" part of it. but i dont think that is as significant{if at all} as some people believe{although seeing the result i do respect their choice to beleive}. nor is chanting the path id take. personally, going by buddhist perspective as i see it. its about emptying yourself, not forcefully, not through WILL. but through silent relaxation. quieteness. letting your ego whither away that chains you to so many of the temporal materialistic things that taint your atma. its about slowly going into a semi sleep while meditating{in which relaxing is more important and getting in touch with the realisation of the fact that "your ego does not exist".}

and then finding emptiness of your ego. than finding without forcing, {as forcing will only work against u as discipline does}, the emptiness of the very concept of emptiness, which to me, is a final attempt of your ego/psuedo self, to create a reality which is CONFINED by selfishness, or in this case, confined by the very phenomenon known as a CONCEPT{which is why i personally think the phrase EMPTINESS OF EMPTINESS, is so emphasised upon by the buddha}. once u are free of even this bond of selfishness, you can purge your existance of selfishness and come to see what you were untainted.

untainted by the very concepts of self. and that will be the first step to lowest{or rather, NEAREST to a normal man} level of enlightenment.

id probably differ with your and shaky's interpretation of the philosophy here, because{even though i have rather limited knowledge} to me. we were born OF the truth and our atma is by its nature, in tune to and searches for, the truth, reguardless of how polluted. we do not have to chant, or discipline, or force{in mostly any interpretation} ourselves to come closer to enlightenment for 2 reason. first off, to me, these practices represent things which are, even in their lightness, not part of our atma. because if u pay attention while chanting or disciplining yourselves, youll see that it is a practice through which you are trying to get sumthing done using your SELF as a tool. which wud harm the purpose. secondly, you have an inherent desire, as you slowly drift off and FORGET{rather than purge which is forceful in sum way} your tainted self, to "inherently" move towards your atmal self. for which effort is not required as much as LETTING GO is.

in my oppinion, we should look more on the content of buddha's teachings then their implications. buddha was afterall a human being, and what worked for him physically might not the same for all. yet the "content" of what buddha was trying to convey using language"which in itself is deceptive in nature" is very important. often times what he says seems to contradict himself not because the content does, but because of the limitations of language. and i think he himself said{probably in his wisdom for this exact reason} that his teachings were to be taken a rough guide to what to do and not as DOGMA, which he took every measure he can to protect his followers from.

for it is when ur stuck on words and not meaning as a whole that u become dogmatic. we should take all that is logical in his teachings. and we should interpret it in the way that is the least contradictory to his philosophy as a whole. and not be stuck on chanting{which i again respect if any1 desires to do it. and really sum people can without the shortcomings i seem to see in it but not most} or disciplining our lives. because i think, that those are more practices than the "content" of what buddha was trying to explain.

ofcourse, that IS just an oppinion of mine.

oh yeah. forgot to add. in place of chanting, id go for sincerity. the emotion towards your conciounce's PULL, to discover its original atma. and that is in itself a result of fealing the pull to begin with{which is probably the nature of all sentiences although how much they act on it might be different}.

hmm, people are getting lazy{or just kmc is dying, in all places other than comic book discussions}. views people, anything! lol.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I think you are. I never said absolute happiness is eternal, in fact, I made it quite clear that I beleive even total happiness is temporary, just like suffering is temporary.


You say there is no such thing as absolute happiness. Well, I can easily argue, with your same logic, that there is no such thing as absolute suffering.

Pain is temporary

Depression is temporary

Anger is temporary

Sorrow is temporary

Those things can easily be distracted by laughter, love, humility, knowledge, wisdom, and the like.


Now, would you argue that suffering is not absolute ? Because it seems like you beleive that suffering is a solid state of mind, while happiness is fragile. What leads you to beleive this ?


Suffering and Enjoyment can be equally strong and relevant, and the intensity varies based on conditions.


Just like our suffering is due to conditions (death of a family member, sickness, heartbreak, loss of freinds, isolation from classmates, failure of a certain goal, etc.), so is enjoyment (humor, being in love, success, birth of a child, etc.)




What I am saying is that happiness doesn't have to be conditional, and you shouldn't base your happiness on superficial things such as popularity, financial success, success in infatuation, etc. because failure will lead you to suffer, and dependency on those things will keep you with constant worry.



I learned that you can choose to suffer only for things that are worth suffering over, and smirk at the things that are not worth suffering over. If my boyfreind leaves me..so what ? There's a million other guys out there. If I get a bad grade, so what ? I can try again. If I get fired at work, so what ? I can get another job. And so on.



You can choose to change your outlook, perspective, and discipline. I, as you, should be happy with who we are, and what we have, not constantly desire more.


I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own.


My outlook has changed completely, once I let go of my petty anger, and saved my anger for times when I truly need it (which is almost never). I let go of self pity and self criticism, stop depending on other people for emotional and superificial support, and chose to only depend on myself for my emotional, mental, and physical needs.


Now, when i see someone suffer over a heartbreak, or over loss of a freindship, or over failure at a sport or art, or whatever the case, I see how they are in a prison of thier own making. These people who suffer do not see what I see. How beautiful, strong, and important they really are, and how much better they can be.




If you do not understand this, then talk to Shakymunison for more. He will teach you how he alone became the source of all his own happiness, and his life with his Wife and others is the extra privilege that comes with that.

hmmm interesting theories you got there, however they did not help me and will not help me. You say you don't care what happens, you just let your emotions go....what would happen if everyone you loved died? Would you say so what there are tons of other people to love? I think not.

Well you would just have to view it as something out of your control, see that they are in a much happier place and be happy for them..

I do believe in happiness, that's the purpose in my life. Without it, I'm not sure where I would be. Because it gives me strength. I try to do my best with the situation I'm in and find something that might make me happy.

I learned a long time ago, that me, and only me, could make myself happy. When the other children harassed me and called me names, I began asking myself: what's the point of living, if this is life? If this is everything I can look forward to? No one should ever be forced to decide. I was too young. But I had to make a choice, between crying my eyes out, which I did at times, or doing the best I could with the situation. Ever since that day, in 6th grade, when I decided that I wanted to live and not kill myself, I found things that could make me happy. I began focusing on the positive things in my life. I had a teacher whom I loved - and still do. I had and still have great parents, a best friend and my books, my films, my drawings and my music. That's how I've found happiness every time things have gone wrong. Because I could never let myself be brought down by others. It gave me strength, but I hope I never ever experience anything like it again. The tears and pain ain't worth it. It doesn't make me special, because I'm not the only one who has been harassed or bullied, but it didn't ease the pain when I was in the middle of it. And I still have to live with the memories. And I hope I always do. Because I'm learning to live with it. I will never accept it, but I will remember it, so I can prevent others from experiencing the same as I did when I become a teacher.

That's how I've found happiness in life. When I see children laughing, when I know that my friends are safe and that my parents are okay. That makes me happy.

Regards, Yvonne

Originally posted by Charmed_Phoebe
hmmm interesting theories you got there, however they did not help me and will not help me. You say you don't care what happens, you just let your emotions go....what would happen if everyone you loved died? Would you say so what there are tons of other people to love? I think not.


I do care what happens. If my family died, I would suffer for a very long time.


But I would eventually move on. I can't dwell in misery for the rest of my life. I would probably cry every single day for the rest of my life, but only for a short time each day.


I would owe it to my family to be strong, and move forward, and be content.

Think about it: Your grandparents.



They don't have thier mother or father anymore. They may have deceased brothers or sisters, or none at all.

But they still have thier son or daughter, and you and your brothers, sisters, neices and nephews.


Thier old family is gone, but they have a new one whom they love just as much.


Life changes and that is the truth. As long as you still Love, you will still find Love.



I beleive in the Law of Attraction. Look it up, because it would take me too long to explain.


You must stay positive. The absolute truth is that you have the power to make yoursself happy, and no one else does. Not your mother, father, son, daughter, lover, etc.


Only you can be responsible for your own happiness.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali

I beleive in the Law of Attraction. Look it up, because it would take me too long to explain.


Me too. Look it up Charmed Phoebe..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Me too. Look it up Charmed Phoebe..


Did you ever read "The Secret" by Rhonda Burnes ?

Yes I did along with "The Law of Attraction" by Ester and Jerry Hicks. They are both very good books.

I just lent "The Secret" out to a friend last week..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes I did along with "The Law of Attraction" by Ester and Jerry Hicks. They are both very good books.

I just lent "The Secret" out to a friend last week..


The Secret changed my perspective in two days....probably best book I ever read.


The Law of Attraction makes a lot of sense to me. To me, that is power. That is God.

We are the creators! I have found it to be true also. When I look back on my thoughts, I see what I have created. Even when not acting on them. Sometimes, I feel, it comes in a way not understood at the time, but then later on, BINGO, it makes since. It comes to frutation. You attract what you dwell on. That is why I feel you must do and think things with the best intentions. Good intentions get great results for you!..ie Karma, the Wheel of Fortune, Sowing and Reaping, What goes around, comes around... and the like.

GREAT THOUGHTS!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!

The Secret = facepalm

And Zen.

And Zen again, we can't find any other way.

Ooo bad joke. LOL

The Secret is worth reading as long as you take it with a grain of salt.

Well, you become what you think about.