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These two oldies fight at the elder center.

I think Apoc would win even though selene is older

Apocalypse takes the ***** down.

Why does everyone call Namor the first mutant when they both are clearly older.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Apocalypse takes the ***** down.

Selene is hot

Apocalypse.

He may have some new progeny afterwards also.

Selene destroys him hardcore, and btw Namor is called the first mutant b/c he's marvels FIRST DRAWN/CREATED mutant, Selene wasn't "made" until probably the 70s while Namor's from the 40s

I'd give it to Apocalypse. Selene is pretty awesome, though, and hot!

it doesn't look so good for selene!

In her most recent appearance she could assume a living shadow form that would make most of Apocalypse attacks pretty inconsequential, which would make it basically a stalemate.

Her sorceress powers are supposed to rival Kulan Gath, but she has few appearances to confirm that.

She does have her life-draining abilities, which may be mutant or magic derived. Is there anything to suggest Apocalypse would be resistant to a mutant life-draining power? Is there anything to suggest that he'd be immune to a magical life-draining power?

When it comes to strength, Selene is around class 50? I don't know really, anyone got some feats to prove me right/wrong?

Apocalypse is weaker when it comes to magic, but I think he's got superior energy blasts and physical strength.

Selene is probably the stronger telekinetic/telepath.

Apocalypse should win this, but since he looses so many times, Selene would probably beat him in the end.

Originally posted by llagrok
When it comes to strength, Selene is around class 50? I don't know really, anyone got some feats to prove me right/wrong?

Apocalypse is weaker when it comes to magic, but I think he's got superior energy blasts and physical strength.

Selene is probably the stronger telekinetic/telepath. Nah, her physical strength is nowhere near that.

With her new shadow melding abilities energy blasts, particularly unidirectional, and physical force are likely to have no effect.

Her main trump card would be her mutant/magic life-draining abilities. Other than that it would probably end in a stalemate.

i see a stalemate as well. dracular was able to affect apoc -- badly -- though, so were i to hedge one way or the other, i would lean toward a well-written selene.

good match.

Originally posted by leonidas
i see a stalemate as well. dracular was able to affect apoc -- badly -- though, so were i to hedge one way or the other, i would lean toward a well-written selene.

good match.

Thanks.

I'm not entirely satisfied with the way they did Apocalypses' powers there, he didn't use any sort of energy blasts. Nonetheless, Dracula's powers affected him.

Selene could probably drain his lifeforce, but would she get the chance to?

it's hard to say. if he's well written it's difficult to to tell. she does have the speed advantage, and its essentially unkillable. with her teleporting, you'd think she could reach him and interact physically so if she can hit him, she should be able to drain him. in the new mutants she drained the life forces of loads of people without even needing to TOUCH them. don't know if she could do that to him.

it's close. i'd lean towards selene still, but it would be a tough battle.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse should win this, but since he looses so many times, Selene would probably beat him in the end.

None of Apocalypse's losses are relevant, since they all have an explanation as to why, and how he gets beaten...

I think Apoc wins this pretty handily. The only thing he and Selene really have in common is the immortality. Apoc is far more powerful and has shown as much on panel. The only reason why it's debatable is due to the Anti-Apoc sentiment of this board. Power for power and showing for showing it's not even close. Apocalypse is superior.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I think Apoc wins this pretty handily. The only thing he and Selene really have in common is the immortality. Apoc is far more powerful and has shown as much on panel. The only reason why it's debatable is due to the Anti-Apoc sentiment of this board. Power for power and showing for showing it's not even close. Apocalypse is superior.

Selene has a lot of decent feats, there's no lack of that.

Also, Apocalypse being immortal has been retconned I think. I mean, if he was immortal then there wouldn't be a need to go through all the hibernating.

Originally posted by llagrok
Selene has a lot of decent feats, there's no lack of that.

Also, Apocalypse being immortal has been retconned I think. I mean, if he was immortal then there wouldn't be a need to go through all the hibernating.

He's immortal, his original physical body was simply destroyed. He survives in a succession of host bodies or by regrowing a form via his blood/techmode virus.

And Selene isn't in Apocalypse's class in my opinion. Popular opinion on this board is that he's just above street level and fears coffee tables so I just let it ride for the most part.

Believe what you will.

Originally posted by illadelph12
He's immortal, his original physical body was simply destroyed. He survives in a succession of host bodies or by regrowing a form via his blood/techmode virus.

And Selene isn't in Apocalypse's class in my opinion. Popular opinion on this board is that he's just above street level and fears coffee tables so I just let it ride for the most part.

Believe what you will.

If you have a constant need to regenerate and swap bodies, you are NOT immortal. But I was suppose that's been retconned, in the recent x-men series. Seeing as he can regenerate from a drop of blood now.

Selene and Apocalypse are both low heralds.

Originally posted by illadelph12
He's immortal, his original physical body was simply destroyed. He survives in a succession of host bodies or by regrowing a form via his blood/techmode virus.

And Selene isn't in Apocalypse's class in my opinion. Popular opinion on this board is that he's just above street level and fears coffee tables so I just let it ride for the most part.

Believe what you will.

Both Apocalypse and Selene have the potential to live forever I guess, but considering they both need some sort of 'sustenance' to say alive - neither of them are immortal.

It's somewhat unclear with Apocalypse. He was in fact alive for centuries before enhancing himself with Celestial technology.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
It's somewhat unclear with Apocalypse. He was in fact alive for centuries before enhancing himself with Celestial technology.

His creator probably intended for him to be immortal, and then Apoc was buttraped.

Originally posted by llagrok
If you have a constant need to regenerate and swap bodies, you are NOT immortal. But I was suppose that's been retconned, in the recent x-men series. Seeing as he can regenerate from a drop of blood now.

Selene and Apocalypse are both low heralds.

Apocalypse's essence was immortal, as was his original body. And frankly, having a dicussion with Apoc vs. anybody without Apoc being in his original body is BS.

the shadow-form is tricky, but...the magic thing isn't as bad as some people think. Recall that he was able to beat Loki and trap him with Celestial tech. And what is Apocalypse's body, if not an assload of celestial tech. Not to mention, Apocalypse has far greater stamina. And has shown the ability to drain energy and other things as well. So, Selene is fighting a battle against the clock.

and the Dracula thing was bad writing. Apocalypse easily trounced Dracula the last time they fought. And that time, he was weakened from being awakened too early.

How many times have they fought?

Apocalypse hit Loki in the face, Caliban slashed him, then they managed to trick him into a device, which he broke out of easily.

I'd just like to note that the first person to bring up "the table" was someone decidedly pro-Apocalypse. Strawman ftw. Martyr complex ftw. 313

Selene was supposedly powerful enough to transform the entire Earth with the Master Spell...

Eh.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse should win this, but since he looses so many times, Selene would probably beat him in the end.
I swear. It's like some of you people treat Apocalypse as though he were a mere human...

Originally posted by llagrok
His creator probably intended for him to be immortal, and then Apoc was buttraped.
Hmm. You're probably right...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Apocalypse's essence was immortal, as was his original body. And frankly, having a dicussion with Apoc vs. anybody without Apoc being in his original body is BS.
Agreed.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And has shown the ability to drain energy and other things as well.
Yep. He drained Cyclops' Optic blasts during The Twelve (shortly before they temporarily merged), as well as a couple other things, and thus, Selene's life absorbing ability doesn't really give her the edge...

Absorbing Cyclops' optic concussive force blasts doesn't equate to being able to drain life from people.

Maby we will be lucky and get to see the fight between them.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Apocalypse hit Loki in the face, Caliban slashed him, then they managed to trick him into a device, which he broke out of easily.

I'd just like to note that the first person to bring up "the table" was someone decidedly pro-Apocalypse. Strawman ftw. Martyr complex ftw. 313

Selene was supposedly powerful enough to transform the entire Earth with the Master Spell...

The master spell?

The Master Spell is the spell Kulan Gath uses to revert the world or parts of it to the Dark Ages.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Master Spell is the spell Kulan Gath uses to revert the world or parts of it to the Dark Ages.

Yeah, the one used in Exiles?

This is 616. We have no way of telling whether or not that Selene had the same powers.

Originally posted by llagrok
Yeah, the one used in Exiles?

This is 616. We have no way of telling whether or not that Selene had the same powers. I'm not referring to the Selene in Exiles.
The Master Spell is something Kulan Gath has used in 616 reverting Manhattan iirc to the Dark Ages.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2681/untitledic7.th.jpg
Selene stated she was going to spread the spell worldwide, but never got a chance to do so as she was infected by the transmode virus. (I can't recall right now how she came back from that.)

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not referring to the Selene in Exiles.
The Master Spell is something Kulan Gath has used in 616 reverting Manhattan iirc to the Dark Ages.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2681/untitledic7.th.jpg
Selene stated she was going to spread the spell worldwide, but never got a chance to do so as she was infected by the transmode virus. (I can't recall right now how she came back from that.)

Yeah, I thought you had only seen the exiles version

I still don't think this puts her above Loki though, or above Apocalypse

I don't put her above Loki either, but neither do I put Apocalypse above Loki.

I still see a stalemate or a life-drain giving her the win.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Apocalypse hit Loki in the face, Caliban slashed him, then they managed to trick him into a device, which he broke out of easily.



Loki tried to break free to no avail until he hit one of the balls generating the energy, which shut it down.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't put her above Loki either, but neither do I put Apocalypse above Loki.

I still see a stalemate or a life-drain giving her the win.

i agree.

she was powerful enough to wipe out all the externals. the full extent of her magic is unknown, but what she HAS shown would give apoc fits. apoc has physical versatility, she has that as well PLUS high-level magic.

slight edge to selene.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree.

she was powerful enough to wipe out all the externals. the full extent of her magic is unknown, but what she HAS shown would give apoc fits. apoc has physical versatility, she has that as well PLUS high-level magic.

slight edge to selene.

That's true, she beat A LOT of powerful guys there.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash


Loki tried to break free to no avail until he hit one of the balls generating the energy, which shut it down. What part of that doesn't equate to breaking out of the machine?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What part of that doesn't equate to breaking out of the machine?

He didn't break free by overpowering the machine....


That's my point...

Hmm... touche I suppose. I didn't really look at your scans closely enough TBH. However that would be Apocalypse with prep vs Selene. 313