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Bloodlust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by superkronick92
Bloodlust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

phoenix

Movie Phoenix sucked. She couldn't even kill Wolverine. But, I haven't seen movie Surfer yet, so I can't say who would win.

Movie Surfer is a big dissapointment also!!!

I liked the movie. Kinda short though.

i also liked the movie and id say movie surfer would win without to much trouble, hed blast her away and shes not even strong enough to kill wolverine as stated before

Movie Surfer would have turned Logan inside out!!

she can make SS fade away into dust in a sec just like she did to those people.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
she can make SS fade away into dust in a sec just like she did to those people.

ya because turning a normal human into dust and turning the silver surfer into dust take about the same amount of power. I forgot human=cosmic

Originally posted by Kurash
ya because turning a normal human into dust and turning the silver surfer into dust take about the same amount of power. I forgot human=cosmic didnt she do it to some of magnetos buddies as well at the end of the movie ? and there mutants as well.

Surfer is too fast.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
didnt she do it to some of magnetos buddies as well at the end of the movie ? and there mutants as well.

the blowfish guy? hes not surfer level

full-powered movie phoenix was powerful. he could give surfer a hard time.
she didn't kill wolverine because she still cared about him.

Originally posted by TheGame17
full-powered movie phoenix was powerful. he could give surfer a hard time.
she didn't kill wolverine because she still cared about him.

You are seriously gonna sit there and think she didnt kill Logan because she cared about him when she killed Scott and the Professor? Negative

Since it was said in X3 that Phoenix has no limits to her power, that should mean that disingrating SS would be the same like disingrating human.
Anyway, putting that away, SS is powerful, but I really don't see Phoenix from X3 having trouble disingrating him.

And I think it is pretty clear she was holding back against Logan. She could kill him in many ways, one od them shoud aslo be able to disingrate him. Jean was fighting Dark Phoenix at the time.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Since it was said in X3 that Phoenix has no limits to her power, that should mean that disingrating SS would be the same like disingrating human.
Anyway, putting that away, SS is powerful, but I really don't see Phoenix from X3 having trouble disingrating him.

And I think it is pretty clear she was holding back against Logan. She could kill him in many ways, one od them shoud aslo be able to disingrate him. Jean was fighting Dark Phoenix at the time.

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRR

*wrong buzzer sound*

Phoenix from the movie had human durability and couldn't even take being stabbed by Logan. Silver Surfer's durability is FAR above his and any of those lame ass mutants she killed. All it takes is one blast from him.

Originally posted by llagrok
ERRRRRRRRRRRRRR

*wrong buzzer sound*

Phoenix from the movie had human durability and couldn't even take being stabbed by Logan. Silver Surfer's durability is FAR above his and any of those lame ass mutants she killed. All it takes is one blast from him.

She could just knock him of his board and its game over.

Originally posted by llagrok
ERRRRRRRRRRRRRR

*wrong buzzer sound*

Phoenix from the movie had human durability and couldn't even take being stabbed by Logan. Silver Surfer's durability is FAR above his and any of those lame ass mutants she killed. All it takes is one blast from him.

She showed great TK abilities, surely far enough to knock SS down from the board.

Phoenix wins.

Movie Phoenix was lame.

End of Story.

It all boils down to the fact she failed to kill Wolverine, and Wolverine managed to kill her with his claws.

Doesn't really make up for a good fight.

Just exchange Wolvie's claws with Surfer's board impaling her and it's game over.

Yo.

Originally posted by Xplosive
She showed great TK abilities, surely far enough to knock SS down from the board.

Phoenix wins.

while she lifted alot of diff things, I think the heaviest was her familys home.

Im not sure *that* would be enuff, however I havent seen the FF2-movie yet so Im still unsure.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



while she lifted alot of diff things, I think the heaviest was her familys home.

Im not sure *that* would be enuff, however I havent seen the FF2-movie yet so Im still unsure.




Tazer

Probably the water she was lifting in the end (and in the same time was destroying the island) was considerably heavier than the house.
And everythin she lifeted, she lifted with ease.

And then if you go by that, ''I am not sure that would be enough'', well in X3 she didn't lift anything heavy as Magneto lifting the bridge, but we all know she could do it extremely easily.

Surfer.

so weve gotten to the point in this forum where people now think that being able to lift a house puts you in position to KO the surfer

The Surfer absorbs jean like he does ..... whoooppps !

Originally posted by Doctor D.P.
The Surfer absorbs jean like he does ..... whoooppps !

Wait, nevermind, I thought you were talking about an upcoming comic.

Destroying somethin that is many time larger than the planet Earth itself requires energy surpassing that of movie Phoenix has ever done..

Lets see Unlimited energy according to a member of FF..
matter manipulation on a global scale (Could turn of Jeans mutant DNA)
Speed (id say light speed)
There's more but id be spoiling the movie for yah all..

Planet busting energy, Surfer takes this w/ ease..

Yo.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Probably the water she was lifting in the end (and in the same time was destroying the island) was considerably heavier than the house.
And everythin she lifeted, she lifted with ease.

And then if you go by that, ''I am not sure that would be enough'', well in X3 she didn't lift anything heavy as Magneto lifting the bridge, but we all know she could do it extremely easily.

U mean the water she was holding back in X2?? that didnt look to me like she did so w/ease, or else she wouldve been able to not get caught by the pressure after the BB got away.

and since that ver of Phoenix did less than 10% of the stuff we saw her pull off in the comics, U really cant say "we all know she could do it extremely easily" since this is a totally diff beast.




Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



U mean the water she was holding back in X2?? that didnt look to me like she did so w/ease, or else she wouldve been able to not get caught by the pressure after the BB got away.

and since that ver of Phoenix did less than 10% of the stuff we saw her pull off in the comics, U really cant say "we all know she could do it extremely easily" since this is a totally diff beast.

Tha water in X3.

Surfer wins. Period. If you saw the feats Surfer was doing in that movie, WITHOUT TRYING, you'd understand. I don't wanna get into it, but basically, bow down... to Norrin Radd.

Originally posted by rotiart
Surfer wins. Period. If you saw the feats Surfer was doing in that movie, WITHOUT TRYING, you'd understand. I don't wanna get into it, but basically, bow down... to Norrin Radd.

Am, and what was so impressive, like Victor with having SS power loosing the fight against Torch.

He showed no great speed, nor great TK abilities and even matter manipulation wasn't something.

Many said what he did, they take SS comic book counterpart, what he can do, well this is movie and he hasn't shown anything special.

Everything also Phoenix did in the movie, she was doing easily.

And the novel X3, I think, mentions that Phoenix was holding back that she didn't disintegrate Logan.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Am, and what was so impressive, like Victor with having SS power loosing the fight against Torch.

He showed no great speed, nor great TK abilities and even matter manipulation wasn't something.

Many said what he did, they take SS comic book counterpart, what he can do, well this is movie and he hasn't shown anything special.

Everything also Phoenix did in the movie, she was doing easily.

And the novel X3, I think, mentions that Phoenix was holding back that she didn't disintegrate Logan. Time to ruin whatever I feel like...

Funny thing that Torch had the full power of the F4, but I guess that doesn't compare to said, furry midget...

He did though, he traveled extremely fast, like when he went from like planet's distance in a short time.
Taking Torch out to the atmosphere while not even trying to travel.

Actually, he did show something special, like destroying a being that was bigger than a planet. You know... Galactus, the being that eats planets?
Phoenix destroys Xavier, blows back Magneto, lifts a house, and fails to take out said furry mutant.
Wow, I actually fail to see why any feats of Surfer's are even bad in comparison...

Plus, he f*cked up Torch, by just coming into contact with him.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Time to ruin whatever I feel like...

Funny thing that Torch had the full power of the F4, but I guess that doesn't compare to said, furry midget...

And that should be enough to handle SS powers?


Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Taking Torch out to the atmosphere while not even trying to travel.

Wow, very impressive.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Phoenix destroys Xavier, blows back Magneto, lifts a house, and fails to take out said furry mutant.

Far better than what SS did to Johnny.

And if we take that Phoenix fails to take furry mutant, well SS wasn't also able to disintegrate Doom.

Phoenix get's blasted she dies.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And that should be enough to handle SS powers?




Wow, very impressive.



Far better than what SS did to Johnny.

And if we take that Phoenix fails to take furry mutant, well SS wasn't also able to disintegrate Doom. No, but Doom was also inexperienced.

I know, terrific, isn't it?

Hardly. Johnny was a tank in that show.

SS shot Doom once, sent him back to his lair, turned him into bubbles, got rid of his scares, all with one weak blast.
He wasn't trying to kill him, just get rid of him, and... he did.
Surprising, I know.

Plus, Surfer destroyed Galactus, a being who was bigger than a planet in that movie?
Que?

Victor was inexperienced, but he hate Fantastic Four so much and couldn't kill them on a whim with SS powers, he didn't kill them at all.

Phoenix was also inexperienced with her powers, completely inexperienced, she still killed everyone on a whim, killed more powerful than anyone on Fantastic 4 team.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
He wasn't trying to kill him, just get rid of him, and... he did.


Than also Phoenix didn't try to kill Logan. She knew that Logan will heal from the wounds she was giving him. Surprising, I know?

In the mansion she knocked him out extremely easily with no effort, so if she would try to kill him in the end, she would have done it.

And since SS didn't show no great speed on Earth in the movie, I really don't see trouble for Phoenix to knock him down from the board.

Then we know what would have happened.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Victor was inexperienced, but he hate Fantastic Four so much and couldn't kill them on a whim with SS powers, he didn't kill them at all.
It's a ****ing movie why would the villain kill the main characters?

Edit:Phoenix has human durability she get's blasted and she dies.

Originally posted by Estacado
It's a ****ing movie why would the villain kill the main characters?

It's a ****ing movie, why would Phoenix kill Logan, practically the main character in X-Men movies?

She killed Cyclops, he wasn't even in any X-Men movie for long time.
She killed Xavier, well, because she was a true dark villain, against Logan she was clearly holding back, Jean fighting DP.

Because she killed Scott,Prof-X and many others.

Still Phoenix loses because of her human durability.

Originally posted by Estacado
Still Phoenix loses because of her human durability.

I still see Phoenix knocking SS down form the board very easily.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Victor was inexperienced, but he hate Fantastic Four so much and couldn't kill them on a whim with SS powers, he didn't kill them at all.

Phoenix was also inexperienced with her powers, completely inexperienced, she still killed everyone on a whim, killed more powerful than anyone on Fantastic 4 team.



Than also Phoenix didn't try to kill Logan. She knew that Logan will heal from the wounds she was giving him. Surprising, I know?

In the mansion she knocked him out extremely easily with no effort, so if she would try to kill him in the end, she would have done it.

And since SS didn't show no great speed on Earth in the movie, I really don't see trouble for Phoenix to knock him down from the board.

Then we know what would have happened. Victor had his powers for like 5 minutes, before he had his big fight...
Phoenix had hers for a full movie...

The difference here is, that all Surfer wanted to do was send him away, and he did, with added effects.
However, Jeanix was trying to keep Wolverine away from her, and... failed, miserably.

She knocked him out, but in the end she was trying to kill him.
You kind of wonder how she wasn't trying to kill Wolverine, when a bunch of other people farther away, were being disintegrated in about a second.

Keep believing that, but it's also quite pointless, because he still showed way more speed than she did.

The funny thing is, Surfer can go intangible... and did so when Johnny tried that.
I fail to even see her hitting him.
Which is the difference between Surfer, and Doom.

Plus, Surfer killed someone who was bigger than a planet. A being who ate planets.
Acknowledge the fact, or be annoyed, I don't really care, but I will keep saying it.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
However, Jeanix was trying to keep Wolverine away from her, and... failed, miserably.

Try to keep him away, why didn't she then send him away like she did in the mansion?

Phoenix knocks surfer off his board and then disintegrates him.

Movie surfer took out galactus single handidly or the big black cloud that was supposed to be Galan

We know what Galactus is capable from comics, but that is not the case in the movie, although of course in later movies they could show his power as they can show Pheonix power far more than in X3.

Originally posted by norrinradd43
Movie surfer took out galactus single handidly or the big black cloud that was supposed to be Galan

Yes, but Galactus didn't do anything in the movie except being mentioned to eat the planet for energy.
Somone who doesn't know comics, maby he the one won't be impressed with Galactus being destroyed by his own herald. Shouldn't be master so much more powerful than his herald.
And Phoenix was also mentioned to have limitless power.

The feat is not Surfer defeating Galactus the feat is that he defeated something larger the Earth.

Originally posted by Xplosive
We know what Galactus is capable from comics, but that is not the case in the movie, although of course in later movies they could show his power as they can show Pheonix power far more than in X3.



Yes, but Galactus didn't do anything in the movie except being mentioned to eat the planet for energy.
Somone who doesn't know comics, maby he the one won't be impressed with Galactus being destroyed by his own herald. Shouldn't be master so much more powerful than his herald.
And Phoenix was also mentioned to have limitless power.
Doesnt that tell you somethin about the level of power the char. possess? Planet Eater.. And SS defeated it..

Till we see Jean (Phoenix) tops that feat, or can counter/defend an energy release of that magnitude she goes down in this match up..

Better yet...lets watch Surfer's board impale Phoenix. eek

Lol, I saw the movie and Silver Surfer would destroy Phoneix. He wouldnt need to touch her, or energy blast her or anything, all he has to do is go past her on his little board, and she like turns into a crater or something.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Try to keep him away, why didn't she then send him away like she did in the mansion? Because Wolverine was ready for her the second time around... maybe?

Originally posted by Roldz
Doesnt that tell you somethin about the level of power the char. possess? Planet Eater.. And SS defeated it..

Till we see Jean (Phoenix) tops that feat, or can counter/defend an energy release of that magnitude she goes down in this match up..

Doesn't it tell you when it is said limitless power.

Anyway, we know what was Xavier capable of in X2 with cerebro.
To link with all living beings on the planet and to kill them.
Xavier was defeated and killed fairly easily by completely inexperienced Phoenix.
Xavier knew what was Phoenix power and scared of her.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Because Wolverine was ready for her the second time around... maybe?

Now tell me, do you really believe that?

Originally posted by Xplosive
Now tell me, do you really believe that? Why wouldn't I?
It's not like she has showings to negate this, plus she caught him by surprise in the mansion.

The second time, Wolverine was ready to fight/take her down.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Why wouldn't I?
It's not like she has showings to negate this, plus she caught him by surprise in the mansion.

The second time, Wolverine was ready to fight/take her down.

No, really you think that?
Logan who hasn't shown in movie anything to be stronger than world strongest man in real world.
Logan who even in comics we know of isn't stronger on paper than world strongest man in real world physically and if he is, he is insignificantly stronger, movie Logan wasn't even that.

And now Jean who was easily lifting the house and all inside the house, she didn't even see them, you know, Logan was in and Juggernaut and she blew them out of the house with extreme ease.
Then Logan who was running towards Juggernaut was immediately put down. Jean who was 6 years old was lifting cars with completely no effort.
Then Phoenix who was destroying the island, lifting all that water in the end and you will say because he was prepared he was able to hold on the ground and Phoenix wasn't able to lift him off the ground?
Come on.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No, really you think that?
Logan who hasn't shown in movie anything to be stronger than world strongest man in real world.
Logan who even in comics we know of isn't stronger on paper than world strongest man in real world physically and if he is, he is insignificantly stronger, movie Logan wasn't even that.

And now Jean who was easily lifting the house and all inside the house, she didn't even see them, you know, Logan was in and Juggernaut and she blew them out of the house with extreme ease.
Then Logan who was running towards Juggernaut was immediately put down. Jean who was 6 years old was lifting cars with completely no effort.
Then Phoenix who was destroying the island, lifting all that water in the end and you will say because he was prepared he was able to hold on the ground and Phoenix wasn't able to lift him off the ground?
Come on. What the f*ck does being strong have to do with anything?
Plus, he fought a guy who lifted up a tree...

OMG, she lifted Wolverine? Like, does she want a metal or something? She also didn't try to lift Wolverine, she tried to force him back, and disintegrate him, which didn't work.
The first time, she forced him back, because he wasn't prepared.
I never said anything about lifting him, which I'm also not trying to refute, because she would be able to accomplish this.

Plus, if she can't force back Wolverine (while she's also somehow going to separate Surfer from his board)... and her ultimate feat is lifting things...
How exactly does this help her against Surfer?

Is she going to lift him? Is her forcing back Juggernaut, who got knocked out by running into a wall, going to help her?

Face it, she has no feats to speak of, that would even remotely help her in this fight.

Actually, I would like to see why people think she can separate Surfer from his board.

Also, this is a dumb debate, I'll tell you that righ' nah.

movie phoenix destroyed xavier and almost killed wolverine.

movie surfer destroyed (apparently) Galactus.

The effects on the environment of the surfer flying through the air equal the effects on the environment of jean concentrating and focusing her energy.

Nuff said.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
What the f*ck does being strong have to do with anything?

Everything, man, everything.
As 6 year old Jean would be able to force him back.
Phoenix only wanted Logan to come to her despite what she was doing to him.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Is she going to lift him? Is her forcing back Juggernaut, who got knocked out by running into a wall, going to help her?

Juggernaut without powers.

I understand why you chose SS to win, but to say he Logan prepared and that is why Phoenix couldn't force him back is ridiculous.
Because if she would want to keep him away from her, she would've done it.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Everything, man, everything.
As 6 year old Jean would be able to force him back.
Phoenix only wanted Logan to come to her despite what she was doing to him.



Juggernaut without powers.

I understand why you chose SS to win, but to say he Logan prepared and that is why Phoenix couldn't force him back is ridiculous.
Because if she would want to keep him away from her, she would've done it. As she hasn't proved...

Well, that's what the movie showed... she catches him by surprise *gasp*, he goes flying.
Wolverine is ready *gasp* he doesn't go anywhere, but forward.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
Why wouldn't I?
It's not like she has showings to negate this, plus she caught him by surprise in the mansion.

The second time, Wolverine was ready to fight/take her down.

you can not be this stupid no way. your just messing with him right. you can not be that big of a fanboy.

wolverine in the movie was human level strength and his skin was just like human skin. phonix disinigrated everyone else at once but only disengrated a tiny bit of wolverine at a time so he wouldn't get really hurt. she was holding back like nothing else.

phoenix disingrated the black bird with as much strain as she did just normal people (which is none) what she was doing was taking them apart a a subatomic level. surfer would be vanrable to this. However surfer can do the same thing. I personaly thing surfer would get her before she could get him. oh also phoenix does have the option of puting up a tk sheild (which i do not think would be breached by surfers energy beam easly) however surfer showed that he can get beyound sheilds.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
As she hasn't proved...

Well, that's what the movie showed... she catches him by surprise *gasp*, he goes flying.
Wolverine is ready *gasp* he doesn't go anywhere, but forward.

she lifted hundreds of tons of water and every car in her on her block when she was ten and she couldn't keep a hair man from getting to her. please dude she showed in spades that she could.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
What the f*ck does being strong have to do with anything?
Plus, he fought a guy who lifted up a tree...

OMG, she lifted Wolverine? Like, does she want a metal or something? She also didn't try to lift Wolverine, she tried to force him back, and disintegrate him, which didn't work.
The first time, she forced him back, because he wasn't prepared.
I never said anything about lifting him, which I'm also not trying to refute, because she would be able to accomplish this.

Plus, if she can't force back Wolverine (while she's also somehow going to separate Surfer from his board)... and her ultimate feat is lifting things...
How exactly does this help her against Surfer?

Is she going to lift him? Is her forcing back Juggernaut, who got knocked out by running into a wall, going to help her?

Face it, she has no feats to speak of, that would even remotely help her in this fight.

Actually, I would like to see why people think she can separate Surfer from his board.

Also, this is a dumb debate, I'll tell you that righ' nah.


this is the worst debating i've seen on this forum and that's saying a lot. sersously she can lift tons upon tons of maters and dissemble things on a molecular level but can't force back someone with peak human (which is debateble in the movie version that he's even that strong) strength. Jean mentioned several times that she wanted to die before that. wolverine was getting though to her on a psycologcal level not by over powering her.


i've already stated that surfer would win because he's quickest on a draw but you and others are depowering her and are misleading with your skewed interprtation of the facts.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
movie phoenix destroyed xavier and almost killed wolverine.

movie surfer destroyed (apparently) Galactus.

The effects on the environment of the surfer flying through the air equal the effects on the environment of jean concentrating and focusing her energy.

Nuff said.

Famke FTW

i dont know who would win.
but saying the phoenix could not move logan is just sillynes

Originally posted by jasofisc
you can not be this stupid no way. your just messing with him right. you can not be that big of a fanboy.

wolverine in the movie was human level strength and his skin was just like human skin. phonix disinigrated everyone else at once but only disengrated a tiny bit of wolverine at a time so he wouldn't get really hurt. she was holding back like nothing else.

phoenix disingrated the black bird with as much strain as she did just normal people (which is none) what she was doing was taking them apart a a subatomic level. surfer would be vanrable to this. However surfer can do the same thing. I personaly thing surfer would get her before she could get him. oh also phoenix does have the option of puting up a tk sheild (which i do not think would be breached by surfers energy beam easly) however surfer showed that he can get beyound sheilds.

You seem to forget that the Surfer can heal himself as well, plus Surfer is not made of flesh and bone, he is made of a silvery cosmic material that is highly durable and nearly indestructable. What makes you think Jean can disintegrate a material she has never encountered before?
Here is an easy way the Surfer can take out Jean. He becomes intangible and flys his board through her body, see easy victory.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
What makes you think Jean can disintegrate a material she has never encountered before?


She manipulates matter sub-atomically, what the substance is or whether she knows what is before she uses tk on it is irrelevant, it's matter, she has mind over matter she can manipulate it.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
You seem to forget that the Surfer can heal himself as well, plus Surfer is not made of flesh and bone, he is made of a silvery cosmic material that is highly durable and nearly indestructable. What makes you think Jean can disintegrate a material she has never encountered before?
Here is an easy way the Surfer can take out Jean. He becomes intangible and flys his board through her body, see easy victory.


I already mentioned that way for a surfer victory just not using the board.

it wasn't any harder for her to disessemble the black bird then it was to disessemble people. the durriblity doesn't matter (by the way we have no way of know what his durribilty was but I do agree with you that it must have up there) she is taking stuff apart at a subatomic level surfer is still made up of matter (surfer does the same thing by the way). now i've already said that surfer wins and it's because he know how to use that power better.

Originally posted by LordKaos
She manipulates matter sub-atomically, what the substance is or whether she knows what is before she uses tk on it is irrelevant, it's matter, she has mind over matter she can manipulate it.

couldn't have said it better myself

Surfer....

He matter manipulated an entire lake by just flying over it.

He matter manipulated the desert into a snow storm just by flying over it.

He matter manipulated doom.

He absorbed a missile

He flew over the Atlantic in all of 3 seconds (when reed was tracking him)

he created coliseum size holes in the earth that look so deep they went straight to the center of the earth.

He made invisible womens forcefield a joke.

Not to mention......

He freaking destroyed a being that looked to be 5 times larger then the earth. Seriously, and survived (presumably).....

Surfer was brought down by tech from doom and reed (not a bad defeat I mean its doom and read)


Phoenix got stabbed......

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Surfer....

He matter manipulated an entire lake by just flying over it.

He matter manipulated the desert into a snow storm just by flying over it.

He matter manipulated doom.

He absorbed a missile

He flew over the Atlantic in all of 3 seconds (when reed was tracking him)

he created coliseum size holes in the earth that look so deep they went straight to the center of the earth.

He made invisible womens forcefield a joke.

Not to mention......

He freaking destroyed a being that looked to be 5 times larger then the earth. Seriously, and survived (presumably).....

Surfer was brought down by tech from doom and reed (not a bad defeat I mean its doom and read)


Phoenix got stabbed......

Whatever. You know if Wolverine were in the Fantastic Four movie, he would have cut Galactus in half.

Totally can't believe how people think phoenix was TRYING to kill wolverine and couldn't. We all know even if she couldn't disintegrate him she could levitate him and just smash him into the ground or anything. Why didn't she? She's not an idiot. Can anyone give any reason why she woudln't do this except for the fact that she was holding back?

Apart from that we've seen cuts take like at least 1/2 a second to heal for movie wolverine. We see him cut, they close up to his face and watch him heal. Phoenix was disintegrating entire people and larger things in that time without even focusing on them. She'd at least disintegrate an arm in the time it takes wolv to heal a cut.

Wolv shoudln't be able to heal his adamantium either so even if wolv was resisting disintegration by healing jean could just destroy his skeleton.

Phoenix wasn't even trying and Jean was fighting for control (she came back for a second at the end telling wolv to save her ). Only reason wolverine was able to get to her. Can't believe how people can think otherwise.

Ok, on to the actual discussion I would agree with it coming down to whoever can get a hit off first (which i think surfer would). It's possible his cosmic energy would bind his atomic and subatomic particles better so jean couldn't take him apart as easily but we can't really say. We're not sure about the nature of his intangibility either so we're not sure that would be protection from phoenix. Basically we dont know enough to be sure how effective either's attacks will be on each other (for phoenix whether she can put up a defense against his attacks since we know she's still got human durability). Seeing the extent of their powers, though, it'd be fair to say each can hurt each other. Surfer seems faster, has a POSSIBLE defense due to the power cosmic, and had better offensive feats than phoenix (which MAY indicate better defensive abilities). While these last 2 wouldn't even count as evidence in most threads, since we really dont know much about these characters, I'll include them as a 0.1% in favor of surfer in addition to his speed advantage.

Phoenix never really did anything impressive...

She disintegrated people.
Whoopie. clapping

and it took her about 5 minutes to do it, too.

IIRC, she didn't have control over matter at a subatomic level, and even if they stated she did - she never really showed it.

Sufer wins via speed and versatility.

The outcome of this fight will mostly depend on who will strike first.
As SS can finish her, so can Phoenix put him down with her TK from the board, then he is weak.

The one who strike first, get the first hit, the one will win.

Phoenix dusted things. So did Sailor Moon. That doesn't mean either had separated things at a subatomic level.

She never showed the ability to generate a forcefield as far as I'm aware so I've no idea where that came from.

She had human durability. She gets knocked the **** out as a side effect of Surfer just flying past her.

Surfer is about a million times faster than jean. He flys past her and she turns in to a tree. Or he just blasts her loads of times, jean died from being stabbed...

She had the ability to wrap her body in a telekinetic cocoon that protected her from the pressure of the lake crashing down on her sounds like a shield to me, she also used a shield in X2 to block Cykes optic blast, and the way she stopped the cure needles, they were all suspended in in a tk field, she didn't have to turn around which is reminiscent of her tk sensitivity(which is the ability that allows her to manipulate sub-atomic structures) this ability was also alluded to when she lifted every car in her neighborhood, she trapped everyone in the house to get at Xaiver and when she was apparently only killing humans and brotherhood mutants at the end without even facing the direction of the facility, the Xmen were there but not one of them was harmed, had they left in the deleted scene with magneto it would have shown her manipulating a metal cup breaking it down sub-atomically and transforming it into energy. Nothing in the FF movies suggest that Surfer is immune to mental attacks or detection so his speed ain't jack if she can sense his presence and intent. Xaiver said her powers were unlimited, Magneto said she could do anything, so it is safe to assume manipulating sub-atomic particles and such are not beyond her, if it was stated in the movie her power had no limits I don't understand why everybody here is trying to put limits on them.

Originally posted by LordKaos
She manipulates matter sub-atomically, what the substance is or whether she knows what is before she uses tk on it is irrelevant, it's matter, she has mind over matter she can manipulate it.

Still, the surfer is more masterful when it comes to manipulating matter. He could heal himself from any damage Jean would inflict on him.

Originally posted by LordKaos
She had the ability to wrap her body in a telekinetic cocoon that protected her from the pressure of the lake crashing down on her sounds like a shield to me, she also used a shield in X2 to block Cykes optic blast, and the way she stopped the cure needles, they were all suspended in in a tk field, she didn't have to turn around which is reminiscent of her tk sensitivity(which is the ability that allows her to manipulate sub-atomic structures) this ability was also alluded to when she lifted every car in her neighborhood, she trapped everyone in the house to get at Xaiver and when she was apparently only killing humans and brotherhood mutants at the end without even facing the direction of the facility, the Xmen were there but not one of them was harmed, had they left in the deleted scene with magneto it would have shown her manipulating a metal cup breaking it down sub-atomically and transforming it into energy. Nothing in the FF movies suggest that Surfer is immune to mental attacks or detection so his speed ain't jack if she can sense his presence and intent. Xaiver said her powers were unlimited, Magneto said she could do anything, so it is safe to assume manipulating sub-atomic particles and such are not beyond her, if it was stated in the movie her power had no limits I don't understand why everybody here is trying to put limits on them.
Too bad that Surfer can become intagnible.

Originally posted by Estacado
Too bad that Surfer can become intagnible.

Being in an immaterial state is not a problem for psychic powers, he's still made of matter when he's intangible just not solid matter, if his intangibility was based on shifting part of himself dimensionally ok, but it's not, he's just messing with his molecules. She is also telepathic, strong enough to battle Xavier in the astral plane and not break a sweat, and block his probes when he was searching for her, they are both powerful and neither is gonna just get beat down especially if the deciding factor is intangibility.

Originally posted by What If...
Phoenix never really did anything impressive...

She disintegrated people.
Whoopie. clapping

and it took her about 5 minutes to do it, too.

IIRC, she didn't have control over matter at a subatomic level, and even if they stated she did - she never really showed it.

Sufer wins via speed and versatility.


when she was "disintegrating" people their was no ash or anything left. It was stated that she had control of matter on a subatomic level and when she "disintegrated" people what she was actualy does was taken them apart on a subatomic level (which is way their was noting not even ash left). Surfer can do the same thing and it sounds like the concences view is that surfer wins because of his expirence with this kind of power.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Still, the surfer is more masterful when it comes to manipulating matter. He could heal himself from any damage Jean would inflict on him.

I agree with you that he is more masterfull on that level however him healing himself is not going to work if jean is successful in taking him apart on a subatomic level (how ever it's still up for debate wheither or not surfer could block this I think he can)

They both die because both movie versions were pale unfinished clones not even worth as a shodow of their true selves

Seriously watching them in action was like pulling teeth...

Originally posted by outavodka
They both die because both movie versions were pale unfinished clones not even worth as a shodow of their true selves

Seriously watching them in action was like pulling teeth...


i enjoyed both and thought they stayed true to the heart of the character

Originally posted by jasofisc
i enjoyed both and thought they stayed true to the heart of the character your entitled to your opinion, but seriously thou FF2 felt like a filler for the next movie mad short and X3 was basically Wolverine part 3 starring insane Jean-Pheonix.

Originally posted by jasofisc
when she was "disintegrating" people their was no ash or anything left. It was stated that she had control of matter on a subatomic level and when she "disintegrated" people what she was actualy does was taken them apart on a subatomic level (which is way their was noting not even ash left). Surfer can do the same thing and it sounds like the concences view is that surfer wins because of his expirence with this kind of power.

I suggest you watch the movie again.

There was "ash," and plenty of it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P8cGkstg5p8
As you can see, starting at 3:12 , Xavier's flesh is being taken apart piece by piece. You can distinctly see the pieces of skin flying off into the backround. I see absolutely no hint towards her taking him apart on a subatomic level.

Even if she was, it took her about 2 minutes to do it, and that's about 2 minutes too long when it comes to the Surfer

Let's base this fight on what they've done in the movie and not what we can assume they can do. Alright, I'm goin with the Surfer. Not only can he manipulate things, but he destroys a world eater, and brings a human back to life by touching them. I mean, thats the best way to measure power. Both can kill others with ease and can manipulate matter, but can Phoenix bring people back from the dead? I know the movie version of Silver Surfer can. Now that's true power.

Originally posted by teampac08
Let's base this fight on what they've done in the movie and not what we can assume they can do. Alright, I'm goin with the Surfer. Not only can he manipulate things, but he destroys a world eater, and brings a human back to life by touching them. I mean, thats the best way to measure power. Both can kill others with ease and can manipulate matter, but can Phoenix bring people back from the dead? I know the movie version of Silver Surfer can. Now that's true power.

True power that would be useless in a bloodlust battle between the two of them. I can kill Phoenix, because I can bring Sue Storm back from the brink of death, so then a very good doctor would be able to kill Phoenix too.

Originally posted by Estacado
Too bad that Surfer can become intagnible.
Surfer didn't phase in the movie. He phased other objects which is why there was always that ripple effect on things he passed through. According to the director, he was transmuting objects into water and then back into solids.

He still wins this battle. Just felt like pointing that out.

Originally posted by Validus
Surfer didn't phase in the movie. He phased other objects which is why there was always that ripple effect on things he passed through. According to the director, he was transmuting objects into water and then back into solids.

He still wins this battle. Just felt like pointing that out.
Oh,yeah?
You know what? you look into these things way to much...
I download this shit movie and watched the few parts that looked interesting.Then deleted it off my hard drive and washed the bad taste out my mouth....etc..31

Originally posted by What If...
I suggest you watch the movie again.

There was "ash," and plenty of it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P8cGkstg5p8
As you can see, starting at 3:12 , Xavier's flesh is being taken apart piece by piece. You can distinctly see the pieces of skin flying off into the backround. I see absolutely no hint towards her taking him apart on a subatomic level.

Even if she was, it took her about 2 minutes to do it, and that's about 2 minutes too long when it comes to the Surfer

Are you saying she was generating heat then, with all this talk of ash? Even if she was it was an incredible amount that she would have had to generate by agitating molecules telekinetically. It took two minutes because it was supposed to be reminiscent of the original battle when Jean and Xavier were fighting the Phoenix, but in this version Phoenix won, after that it took only a stray thought to do it to everything else instantly.

Originally posted by Skeets
Oh,yeah?
You know what? you look into these things way to much...
I download this shit movie and watched the few parts that looked interesting.Then deleted it off my hard drive and washed the bad taste out my mouth....etc..31
It wasn't THAT bad. I mean, not like Ghost Rider bad.

I guess,since I didn't even see Ghost Rider...31

Hairplug Rider

The Power Cosmic is a force that can alter reality, allowing the user to do whatever he or she wants (including breaking the laws of physics), only being limited by how much cosmic energy the character can tap at a time. It seems to be part of the universe itself and it can be linked directly to Galactus as its primary wielder or even source. The Heralds of Galactus, including Silver Surfer and Nova are imbued with the Power Cosmic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Universe

surfer wins

Originally posted by lionking
The Power Cosmic is a force that can alter reality, allowing the user to do whatever he or she wants (including breaking the laws of physics), only being limited by how much cosmic energy the character can tap at a time. It seems to be part of the universe itself and it can be linked directly to Galactus as its primary wielder or even source. The Heralds of Galactus, including Silver Surfer and Nova are imbued with the Power Cosmic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Universe

surfer wins

If Surfer killed Galactus then he is cut off from his power source and is now Norrin Radd, according to what you said, so now we have a definite winner Phoenix

Originally posted by What If...
I suggest you watch the movie again.

There was "ash," and plenty of it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P8cGkstg5p8
As you can see, starting at 3:12 , Xavier's flesh is being taken apart piece by piece. You can distinctly see the pieces of skin flying off into the backround. I see absolutely no hint towards her taking him apart on a subatomic level.

Even if she was, it took her about 2 minutes to do it, and that's about 2 minutes too long when it comes to the Surfer


but where did that ash go it went into nothingness their was nothing left behind of anything she destroyed which would imply that she took them apart sub or just atomicly because you can't see the pices of the person (or even ash) after she was done. she dusted a lot of thing and their wad nothing left behind. I suggest you watch it again too just because it looks like she was disingrating them doesn't mean she does. your just proff texting to my your agrgument sound better instead of useing context (like how x said her powers worked) and then evedence from the movie. the effect looked like ash because they wanted a tire in from the comic and phonix being a fire bird. their was nothing left behind after she was done with someone. that's just a fact and for the example of x he didn't even get dusted like the rest it showed him being pulled a part. that's what we are seeing in all those instences and when we can't even see the tiny pieces anymore it's because they are being pulled apart on a atomic and sub atomic level.

it would also seem that who ever wrote the wikipedia artical also agrees with me. I know that's not good evedence but hey that's all I could find if nothing else it's someone else that has taken what happened in the movie in contexted.

Wolverine cutted Phoenix, and that shows her body, opposed to her powers, are not unbreakable.
Surfer wins in a speedblitz. Jean still need to concentrate on targets.