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Does Star Wars have a cult following?

What are your opinions.

Hmm. Define 'cult classic.'

A movie that has a cult following.

I would say so.

I would assume you mean cult film?



And if this is what you meant, the answer is clearly no.

Originally posted by ~JP~
I would assume you mean cult film?

Cult film is a colloquial term for a film that has acquired a highly devoted but relatively small group of fans. Often, cult movies have failed to achieve fame outside of this small group (however, there are a few exceptions.) Some cult movies have gone on to transcend their original cult status and have become recognized as classics, others are of the "so bad it's good" variety, and are destined to remain in obscurity. Cult films often become the source of a thriving, obsessive, and elaborate subculture of fandom, hence the analogy to cults. However, not every film with a rabid fanbase is necessarily a cult film. The term cult film implies a certain level of obscurity, and widely popular, mainstream movies are not considered to be cult films.

And if this is what you meant, the answer is clearly no.

Would Star Wars come under these exceptions would you not think? Bearing in mind "mainstream movies are not considered to be cult films"

Would you also consider Star Wars fandom to be thriving or obsessive?

I wouldnt say that even half the current Star Wars fans are obsessive, although there is a definite group that is.

It's not a cult classic. SW has a pretty mainstream fan based audience.

In general, cult classics are movies that didn't do well at the box office and garnered interest from a particular audience afterwards. A good well known example of a cult classic (but there are many) is Blade Runner: it got slashed by critics when it came out, it didn't do too well, but it has a defintive group of fans that loved the movie and it has gotten more positive press in the years after.

SW was a box office hit. All six movies did very well. Hardly a cult following, it's a very succesfull mass entertainment product.

SW is more than a cult classic, but it does have MULTIPLE cult folllowings.

Originally posted by Alliance
SW is more than a cult classic, but it does have MULTIPLE cult folllowings.

That's effectively my point in a nutshell, courtesy of Alliance. SW has a cult following, but it is atypical for a "cult classic" because it's following has transcended the boundaries the term is usually defined by.

I mean, Star Wars has created an officially recognised religion of around 600,000 Jedi worldwide. That isn't a cult following? Please.

It's not offically recognised, geez.

Just because there are some particulary committed devotees in no way makes this a cult movie. It's not transcending any meaning- it's simply NOT that meaning.

Originally posted by Alliance
SW is more than a cult classic, but it does have MULTIPLE cult folllowings.

true.


IMHO. the Jedi religiong is kinda disturbing because it came from a movie.


meh, that's life.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's not offically recognised, geez.

Maybe not by other institutions, but in England and Wales, the census recongnised the Jedi as it's own category, not simply as "other". Surely this makes it officially recognised, by the very people compiling the data.



Some commited devotees? Ush, these people express all manner of cult-like behaviour in the ways Blade Runner or Logan's Run fans would, yet there are simply 100 times as many of them. There can be no true definition for "cult classic" because it's subjective, and to trying to parade "cult films" as simply non-mainstream films is flawed, as Star Wars and Star Trek prove.

Or are Trekkies simply an urban myth?

It doesn;t matter if they follow what you deem to be 'cult' like behaviour. That does not make Star Wars a cult film because the majority of its viewers and supporters do not fit that type. 'Cult' films have a small but loyal fanbase. That is, in no way at all, even vaguely a definition of Star Wars, which is a populist movie. It's all very well for you to say 'there can be no true definition for cult classic', but with all due respect, that's just you talking rubbish. There IS a definition and it is not something you can just re-define to suit yourself.

Meanwhile, you are wrong again. It is a popular and rather dumb myth that 'Jedi' as a religion got any form of official recognition as a religion in the UK. All it got as recognition was that people were responding with that answer, which means nothing, as the census people specifically pointed out. Half a million people could put down 'cactus' and they would note it, doesn't make 'cactus' a religion. 'Jedi' is not and will not be a religion.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It doesn;t matter if they follow what you deem to be 'cult' like behaviour. That does not make Star Wars a cult film because the majority of its viewers and supporters do not fit that type. 'Cult' films have a small but loyal fanbase. That is, in no way at all, even vaguely a definition of Star Wars, which is a populist movie. It's all very well for you to say 'there can be no true definition for cult classic', but with all due respect, that's just you talking rubbish. There IS a definition and it is not something you can just re-define to suit yourself.

Now, what is rubbish is that you presume there can be a true definition. Now notice the use of true here, for sometimes we must give flawed definitions to things simply so we can make meaning. I suspect you understand that, and I won't insult your intelligence by reiterating it again. Again, do you deny the existence of he most iconic "cult" of them all, the Trekkies? Is Star Trek not mainstream? or will you re-define the meaning to deny the obvious?

Certainly, a populist movie, but how can you dismiss the huge cult following Star Wars has, both from the general cinema goer and the incredibly zealous devotee's.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Meanwhile, you are wrong again. It is a popular and rather dumb myth that 'Jedi' as a religion got any form of official recognition as a religion in the UK. All it got as recognition was that people were responding with that answer, which means nothing, as the census people specifically pointed out. Half a million people could put down 'cactus' and they would note it, doesn't make 'cactus' a religion. 'Jedi' is not and will not be a religion.

Actually, I'm completely right, although I certainly use the term "official" liberously, I have no quarrel admitting that. The Census had their own code for the response of "Jedi", not simply "other", because in England and Wales, it was the 4th largest recognised religion.

Your completely right that half a million people could right down cactus, but they did say "Jedi" and it just reaffirms the cult status it has with students (the majority of "jedi" responses came from uni-towns), even if it was done humurously.

I would say that it is because pretty much everybody I know or have ever asked either has loved Star Wars or hated it completely. So, at least in my area, it has a definitive group of fans.

Originally posted by exanda kane
That's effectively my point in a nutshell, courtesy of Alliance. SW has a cult following, but it is atypical for a "cult classic" because it's following has transcended the boundaries the term is usually defined by.

I mean, Star Wars has created an officially recognised religion of around 600,000 Jedi worldwide. That isn't a cult following? Please. Jedi (they're not ACTUALLY Jedi so I don't count them 13) are a cult in more than one sense of the word.

SW is more than cult because it became a Classic. We agree.

SW is and was no cult. SW was a hit movie. The point about cult movies in general is that they are not box office hits, but have despite their lack of populist success a loyal but small fanbase. If the fan base is not small, there's no need to call it a cult.

And Jedi religion was a joke. It doesn't exist because no one can tell you what it is, where and how to practise it. To even discuss that is ridiculous.

EU ridiculous?

No, normal people ridiculous... but that goes for just me and Ush then.

The thing with Star Wars though, is that it's fanbase exists on so many levels.

Take us lot for example. We enjoy Star Wars, but we don't talk about it 24/7, we see the films, but we won't go to conventions and see the film multiple times (Arguably, thats just me there) that is not cult like behaviour, for a start, there are many of us. But then there are smaller sects of Star Wars fans that endevour in all kinds of cult-like activity; you name it, they've done it.

I'm simply putting two and two together; a cult following (Or would you deny Star Wars cult status altogether?) along with a classic film (of course, you could argue this), hence a cult classic.

The same can be said with Star Trek (however unfortunate that they are often paired together). It has an undeniable cult following, yet still, it appeals to a mainstream audience, has its films distributed and produced by Hollywood majors. It also makes alot of money.

Both franchises show a flaw in the definition of "cult classic" being a strictly non-mainstream product.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
'Cult' films have a small but loyal fanbase. That is, in no way at all, even vaguely a definition of Star Wars, which is a populist movie. It's all very well for you to say 'there can be no true definition for cult classic', but with all due respect, that's just you talking rubbish. There IS a definition and it is not something you can just re-define to suit yourself.


That's what I told him in the movie thread, I guess some things just don’t sink in, eventually I gave up.

More people have agreed so far that Star Wars is a "cult classic" than not, in both threads. With all due respect, your arguments against its cult status can't have been too effective.

Originally posted by exanda kane
The thing with Star Wars though, is that it's fanbase exists on so many levels.



I know many people who like the movies, but still can't recite lines and still ask me the names of minor characters...like 3PO or Fett.

SW is no cult classic.... 'just' a classic.

To say that, then you first have to define a "cult classic", and to siphon that off as simply non-mainstream or sleeper hits is flawed. Take this example for instance Queeq, Star Trek: a cult film or not?

Nope... mass populist tv series and movie with large loyal fan base.

And we defined cult classic SEVERAL times. And the definition is not ours.

A Trekkie is not an urban myth, they are a cult following. While Star Wars fans (the really devoted ones) might not brand themselves with a niche title, they are certainly a cult following.

No non-trekkie says...I saw Star Trek IV in 19XX and really liked it.

Grandpa saw SW in 77 and like all the "lightswords"

theres a diffrence between fan and nerd. personaly i love the films best shit i have ever seen. but i never really had the urge to go to conventions. i did however collect the toys and made a damn good profit 2 years ago.

Originally posted by queeq

And Jedi religion was a joke. It doesn't exist because no one can tell you what it is, where and how to practise it. To even discuss that is ridiculous.

I know people who actually think they could pratice it. they laid out a law, how to meditate, even a test so you can join.

what's happening to our world?

And they read The Making of SW as their Bible???

I might sound selfish here but sometimes I wish that Star wars had only ever been the one original 1977 movie and nobody had really heard of it apart from me and several thousand other cool people around the globe and I could appreciate it knowing that it hadn't been whored to death by fanboys and the industry. Can you imagine that? If it had bombed at the box office and it fell into obscurity?

THEN it would have been a cult classic.

It seens we move this debate over here where it belongs.Yes I do think it is a cult movie.Why people not everyone loves it and only people who are really into it treat it like a reglion and a way of life1
Or the force.jm

A cult classic is not defined by EVERYBODY liking it... *sigh*

Wow.

Originally posted by queeq
A cult classic is not defined by EVERYBODY liking it... *sigh*

Then the definition is flawed. Star Wars/Trek case in point.

So you want to call SW a cult classic. Why? So you can secure for yourself a self-appointed place among the artistic movie buffs, to hide the fact you like main stream movies and want to be taken seriously as a film lover? Is that why you stoop to lame debates about semantics? Get yourself out of low esteem mode and accept the fact that you like films that are fairly mainstream and has a large and loyal fan base. There's no shame in that.

Ok what is the definition to you what a cult classic is then?jm

We gave that several times now. RBYP

Originally posted by queeq
So you want to call SW a cult classic. Why? So you can secure for yourself a self-appointed place among the artistic movie buffs, to hide the fact you like main stream movies and want to be taken seriously as a film lover? Is that why you stoop to lame debates about semantics? Get yourself out of low esteem mode and accept the fact that you like films that are fairly mainstream and has a large and loyal fan base. There's no shame in that.

Simplisticly, I first replied to a post saying SW was not a cult classic, because it was a mainstream production. That's a suspect way of defining a "cult classic" as films like Star Trek and Escape from New York also done very well at the Box Office, were mainstream productions and still have cult followings.

I could say alot more about your misconceptions on me, but I don't think it would solve anything. I garner my own opinion and I will express it.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Simplisticly, I first replied to a post saying SW was not a cult classic, because it was a mainstream production. That's a suspect way of defining a "cult classic" as films like Star Trek and Escape from New York also done very well at the Box Office, were mainstream productions and still have cult followings.

I could say alot more about your misconceptions on me, but I don't think it would solve anything. I garner my own opinion and I will express it.

I wouldn't call taht a cult following, more a geek following.

Its clearly a cult. Jedi as a religion? Stormtrooper armor? Billions of dollars of marketing?

In a difference sense of the word.

A small loyal follwing makes a fairly obscure film a cult classic. SW is NOT a cult classic, but you could say there's a cult following, but that use of the word "cult" addresses the group, not the film.

There is a small defined, absurdly loyal fanbase that follows the films to such a degree that they recieve an entirely different interpretation of the films than the average viewer, who simply enjoys it.

As I said, they're geeks.

Look, can we not agree Queeq, that the term "cult classic" is a subjective term? A cult film site (which I found in a link that was posted) seems to also have encountered this problem and have there own definition.

The site deinition is...

"The cult movie is hard to define, but in general, The Spinning Image definition is any film that has a following beyond casual moviegoers. Of course, the reasons for this can change with every film, with the cult appeal stemming from a piece of music or example of special effects to an outrageous ending."

Star Wars fits into this definition. It has a following that goes beyond the casual moviegoers; Star Wars has many motifs such as the twist, the music and the B-movie style, all which give it an undisputed cult appeal.

However, that being said, what I see as a flaw in the definition is that it is very, very vague, and pretty much allows any movie to be considered a cult film; from Lord of the Rings, The Matrix to Spiderman, all of which have followings beyond that of the usual audience.

It all depends if you want a restricted definition, with a few exceptions (which you can't deny, cases in point are those in discussion) or a very vague definition that accomodates those exceptions better, but also allows for pretty much any film to qualify.

Originally posted by queeq
And they read The Making of SW as their Bible???

I have no clue. I think they actually follow the stupid Jedi code.

Tried to join for fun only, but between the so called trials I quit. Not another exam......

Originally posted by exanda kane
Look, can we not agree Queeq, that the term "cult classic" is a subjective term? A cult film site (which I found in a link that was posted) seems to also have encountered this problem and have there own definition.

The site deinition is...

"The cult movie is hard to define, but in general, The Spinning Image definition is any film that has a following beyond casual moviegoers. Of course, the reasons for this can change with every film, with the cult appeal stemming from a piece of music or example of special effects to an outrageous ending."

Star Wars fits into this definition. It has a following that goes beyond the casual moviegoers; Star Wars has many motifs such as the twist, the music and the B-movie style, all which give it an undisputed cult appeal.

However, that being said, what I see as a flaw in the definition is that it is very, very vague, and pretty much allows any movie to be considered a cult film; from Lord of the Rings, The Matrix to Spiderman, all of which have followings beyond that of the usual audience.

It all depends if you want a restricted definition, with a few exceptions (which you can't deny, cases in point are those in discussion) or a very vague definition that accomodates those exceptions better, but also allows for pretty much any film to qualify.

Sure it's subjective. I agree there. But the term always made sense to me when it came down to films that were ignored by the large audience, got slashed by the critics and YET had an unusual following and consequently grew to appreciation by somehwat larger audiences and critics alike in time. Far from being the only one, Blade Runner is one of the best known examples for a cult film. Basically because of those terms.

Star wars is a movie acknowledged by the mainstream as being a good movie, i think that makes it anything but a cult following

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Star wars is a movie acknowledged by the mainstream as being a good movie, i think that makes it anything but a cult following

yet, it still has a cult following.

WOW! DIFFERENT TYPES OF FANS!

Yes, there is the geek-variation. That doesn't make the movie a cult classic.

By your definition of course

*sigh*

*shrug*

We're done now?

At least tehre is some cult classic news: the ulimate Blade Runner DVD will be out later this year: with five versions and finally a real director's cut. YAAAYYY.

Yeah, close it heh, shame that simple buffoon insists on badmouthing me in other threads like a schoolkid

And wohoo for Blade Runner (Y) Sounds like a bash.

???

The end.