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Ok a reoccurring topic in just about any Darkseid thread is that Superman was actually protected by the Source from being erased by the Omega Effect. I've been trying to track down proof of that claim for months now to no avail, so I decided to make a thread dedicated to the subject. So I gotta know, where has it actually been stated on panel that the only reason Supes survived the OE was because he was protected by the Source? I know it was established that Supes IS essential to the universe by Alexander Luthor and Mxy, but where do they(or anyone else for that matter) actually state that Supes position in the universe is what kept him from being erased?

Scans would be nice and time saving, but I'm more than willing to settle for the issue/arc where it's established.

They don't.

Originally posted by Soljer
They don't.
So Supes being protected is just "Forum Talk" to cover up the fact that someone survived the OE through sheer durability?

Originally posted by darthgoober
So Supes being protected is just "Forum Talk" to cover up the fact that someone survived the OE through sheer durability?

Basicly. However durability should really have nothing to do with resisting the OE anyway.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Basicly. However durability should really have nothing to do with resisting the OE anyway.
Hey there's a LOT of stuff of DS's that I find to be BS, but I still have to hear about it in everyone of his damn threads. Now at least I(and anyone else who unfortunately believed the hype) know that it IS possible to resist the OE, whether you're "essential to the universe" or not.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey there's a LOT of stuff of DS's that I find to be BS, but I still have to hear about it in everyone of his damn threads. Now at least I(and anyone else who unfortunately believed the hype) know that it IS possible to resist the OE, whether you're "essential to the universe" or not. Darkseid once mentioned that "the source has a plan" for Superman, but it's never been stated as to why he's able to take the omega when others of his 'calibre' cannot do the same. It's only speculated by some that this is indeed the reason.

In all honesty, I find that to be pure forum talk. I've read a LOT of Superman and have never seen it stated that the source protects him from the OE.

My theory? I believe his relationship with Kismet is what protects him. After all, she embodies all possibilities in the uni/multiverse and ever since Superman combined with her..he's been able to resist the OE.

Kismet has stated that her and Clark have a special bond which cannot be broken.

At least I believe this makes more sense and it's closer to what is stated on panel.

Originally posted by Juntai
Darkseid once mentioned that "the source has a plan" for Superman, but it's never been stated as to why he's able to take the omega when others of his 'calibre' cannot do the same. It's only speculated by some that this is indeed the reason.
So then it IS possible that someone like Thor or Surfer could survive the OE too?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey there's a LOT of stuff of DS's that I find to be BS, but I still have to hear about it in everyone of his damn threads. Now at least I(and anyone else who unfortunately believed the hype) know that it IS possible to resist the OE, whether you're "essential to the universe" or not. However, Superman IS essential to reality.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So then it IS possible that someone like Thor or Surfer could survive the OE too? Who knows? They'd have no more or less of a shot than anyone else. Most people are defeated by them in one manner or another, whether it's turning them into a human child, wipeout beams, knockout with concussive force, some kind of other transmutation, etc, etc, etc.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
In all honesty, I find that to be pure forum talk. I've read a LOT of Superman and have never seen it stated that the source protects him from the OE.

My theory? I believe his relationship with Kismet is what protects him. After all, she embodies all possibilities in the uni/multiverse and ever since Superman combined with her..he's been able to resist the OE.

Kismet has stated that her and Clark have a special bond which cannot be broken.

At least I believe this makes more sense and it's closer to what is stated on panel.
Then using your theory, it's especially possible that Surfer would be able to resist the OE as well, since it was established by LT that Surfer has a special place in the Universe as the "opposite" of Galactus, and that he is "unique" in all the universes.

I wish people would cut the bs and pleasantries. Superman survives the OE because he's more powerful than DS lately.

DS rarely goes one on one with any other hero so it remains to be seen how they'd take them. Firestorm blocked them in the Pre Crisis days and so did a GL right before he was about to take it to DS with a god damn shovel.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Then using your theory, it's especially possible that Surfer would be able to resist the OE as well, since it was established by LT that Surfer has a special place in the Universe as the "opposite" of Galactus, and that he is "unique" in all the universes.

Maybe. Not sure about SS...but I believe it lends credence that perhaps Warlock may be able to "resist" it.

Originally posted by Validus
I wish people would cut the bs and pleasantries. Superman survives the OE because he's more powerful than DS lately.

DS rarely goes one on one with any other hero so it remains to be seen how they'd take them. Firestorm blocked them in the Pre Crisis days and so did a GL right before he was about to take it to DS with a god damn shovel.

You'd rather have the standard chaotic idiocy of the vs forum?

No, SS is from another reality. Besides, DS already used the OE on SS and melted his skin. SS maybe essential in another reality. But in a universe ruled by Magic...it won't be the same.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Then using your theory, it's especially possible that Surfer would be able to resist the OE as well, since it was established by LT that Surfer has a special place in the Universe as the "opposite" of Galactus, and that he is "unique" in all the universes. Superman's however, is not just hyperbole in that sense. Such as when Alexander Luthor was pulling the realities apart and looking at them and their histories, he noticed that ALL realities are directly linked to Superman. "Everything comes from Superman."

Originally posted by Validus
I wish people would cut the bs and pleasantries. Superman survives the OE because he's more powerful than DS lately.

DS rarely goes one on one with any other hero so it remains to be seen how they'd take them. Firestorm blocked them in the Pre Crisis days and so did a GL right before he was about to take it to DS with a god damn shovel.
Ok please tell me when the shovel incident happened, because that sounds like something I've GOT to see.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, SS is from another reality. Besides, DS already used the OE on SS and melted his skin. SS maybe essential in another reality. But in a universe ruled by Magic...it won't be the same.
That comic wasn't cannon so it doesn't count(unless you're wanting to count Surfer beating the shit out of Orion).

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman's however, is not just hyperbole in that sense. Such as when Alexander Luthor was pulling the realities apart and looking at them and their histories, he noticed that ALL realities are directly linked to Superman. "Everything comes from Superman."

Hell..even the relatively obscure Tangent Superman showed up for that party.
Mxy mentioned something to that effect as well.

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman's however, is not just hyperbole in that sense. Such as when Alexander Luthor was pulling the realities apart and looking at them and their histories, he noticed that ALL realities are directly linked to Superman. "Everything comes from Superman."
I didn't say that Surfer's place in the universe was the same as Supes, just that he also shared a special place in the Universe so if THAT'S what protected Supes, it's viable that Surfer could resist it also.

But truth be told, I don't think we can really take LT's stance on Surfer as hyperbole anymore than we could Spectre's.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok please tell me when the shovel incident happened, because that sounds like something I've GOT to see.

Darkseid's respect thread. Jimmy-chan proved that it was BS with some other scans. The damn Guardians threw that GL to the wolves because they didn't want to fight Darkseid.

Also, using Superman as a benchmark is a bad idea. DC goes to great lengths to make it obvious there's something different about him and that he is the core of their universe.

Rather, look at what's happened to everyone else who got hit by the OE. Even freaking Lobo got wasted by it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind

You'd rather have the standard chaotic idiocy of the vs forum?
Who reads the VS forum anymore these days?

Originally posted by darthgoober
That comic wasn't cannon so it doesn't count(unless you're wanting to count Surfer beating the shit out of Orion).

Sure, why not? One fight doesn't translate to beating the shit out of anyone...defeat maybe but not pwned. Besides cannon or no cannon it does give an insight to the discussion. DS used the OE on Galactus...didn't affect him much. Besides SS got choke by T'challa...nuff said.

I love Validus. .

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sure, why not? One fight doesn't translate to beating the shit out of anyone...defeat maybe but not pwned. Besides cannon or no cannon it does give an insight to the discussion. DS used the OE on Galactus...didn't affect him much. Besides SS got choke by T'challa...nuff said.
Silver Surfer was ALSO able to undue the work of Mxy, so if Surfer's powers are on that level then it must mean that Surfer could solo Supes and DS at the same time.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Silver Surfer was ALSO able to undue the work of Mxy, so if Surfer's powers are on that level then it must mean that Surfer could solo Supes and DS at the same time.

The shrunken city? Good feat canon or not..but it's nothing that the Eradicator, Brainiac, or possibly the Atom couldn't do.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
The shrunken city? Good feat canon or not..but it's nothing that the Eradicator, Brainiac, or possibly the Atom couldn't do.
Wait so you're saying that those guys could LEGITIMATELY counter 5th dimensional magic?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait so you're saying that those guys could LEGITIMATELY counter 5th dimensional magic?

For simple things, why not? It was simply a shrunken city.

Hardly trapping the Spectre or creating universes.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
For simple things, why not? It was simply a shrunken city.

Hardly trapping the Spectre or creating universes.

Or finding the ALE.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
For simple things, why not? It was simply a shrunken city.

Hardly trapping the Spectre or creating universes.
Supes seemed pretty surprised that he was able to pull it off, and if there where that many people capable of the feat I don't think he would have considered it that big of a deal. Not that any of this matters though given the fact that both crossovers in question are non cannon. I just felt the need to point out WHY we don't accept crossovers because WD likes to bring them up.

Also WrathfulDwarf, you should also note that even though DS was able to put Surfer down, he DIDN'T destroy him. Surfer was hurt but conscious and flew away under his own power after the battle was finished. So even if that comic DID count, it actually supports my opinion that Surfer WOULD survive the OE.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Also WrathfulDwarf, you should also note that even though DS was able to put Surfer down, he DIDN'T destroy him. Surfer was hurt but conscious and flew away under his own power after the battle was finished. So even if that comic DID count, it actually supports my opinion that Surfer WOULD survive the OE. No to forget that he hit Surfer from behind...

Considering that he never resisted the beams before he merged with Kismet I'd say that might have something to do with it. During their fight initially when Supes was hit by the OB and Darkseid said he would die Supes said something like no not this time or something. which implies that before he wouldn't have survived.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Considering that he never resisted the beams before he merged with Kismet I'd say that might have something to do with it. During their fight initially when Supes was hit by the OB and Darkseid said he would die Supes said something like no not this time or something. which implies that before he wouldn't have survived.
But again, Surfer was either made into an entirely new universe or made one with the existing Universe so if that's the reason for Supes resisting the OE, then the same would hold true for Surfer.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Supes seemed pretty surprised that he was able to pull it off, and if there where that many people capable of the feat I don't think he would have considered it that big of a deal. Not that any of this matters though given the fact that both crossovers in question are non cannon. I just felt the need to point out WHY we don't accept crossovers because WD likes to bring them up.

I would be too. Unshrinking a city on they fly is a pretty decent feat.

It's believable that certain characters can do it as per their abilities.

If Mxy had made a nigh impenetrable wall and Superman punched through it..I wouldn't consider that "negating 5th dimensional magic"..as it would be in his abilities.

SS and Erads have matter manip abilities, Braniac 13 comes from far in the future where tech is basically like magic. Unshrinking a city falls within their abilities just fine.

Interesting topic
i guess the superman bing "protected" by the source is BS.
Is wonder woman's bracelets protected by the Source as well?

Originally posted by darthgoober
But again, Surfer was either made into an entirely new universe or made one with the existing Universe so if that's the reason for Supes resisting the OE, then the same would hold true for Surfer.

I thought LT just gave him a preview of Godhood? Somehow I don't see Surfer dying as having any real importance/effect to the MU.

I would still say Warlock has a much better chance due to how he works outside of reality and has hidden from things such as the HOTU and IG during their runs.

Originally posted by Priest
Interesting topic
i guess the superman bing "protected" by the source is BS.
Is wonder woman's bracelets protected by the Source as well?
I wouldn't call it complete bs as he was basically getting Bitchslapped by DS before OWAW when he combined with Kismet. Plus he's been shown countless times to be essential to the universe. So it has proof. just hasn't been outright said is all. Oh and her bracelets are made from a shard of the Aegis of Zeus which is basically impenetrable.

I prefered the original reason why Darksied wouldn't ever kill Superman with the O.E.; i.e. because a part of he A.L.E. was contained within him.

The ocassions in which Superman has survived the Omega effect, where both written by Joe Casey issues, the same writer who thinks that superman could beat Galactus, if he where to drop a mental block. :w.t.f.:

The only other ocassions in which the Omega effect's power was limited was during the Hunter Prey saga, against Doomsday, and when Wonder Woman deflected the beam with her bracelets. Dan Jurgens (The author of Hunter Prey), has stated that he never considered Darksied the cosmic powerhouse that he was originally intended to be. The other issue was written by Joseph Loeb, the same guy who thinks Captain America could ko the Hulk.

Originally posted by Validus
I wish people would cut the bs and pleasantries. Superman survives the OE because he's more powerful than DS lately.

DS rarely goes one on one with any other hero so it remains to be seen how they'd take them. Firestorm blocked them in the Pre Crisis days and so did a GL right before he was about to take it to DS with a god damn shovel. Firestorm didn't just redirect the OE,

He redirected the Omega Force itself:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_fs9-1.jpg http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Galan007/th_fs10-1.jpg



T'was an awesome feat for Firestorm, especially when you consider that in the PC days, deflecting/redirecting the OE was extremely rare.... Let alone blocking the damn Omega Force.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer was either made into an entirely new universe

or made one with the existing Universe

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I thought LT just gave him a preview of Godhood?

The LT transformed SS into the 616 Universe for a moment.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Somehow I don't see Surfer dying as having any real importance/effect to the MU.

The LT did state that the SS is unique,

in fact,

he acquainted the SS with Himself, they have some kind of incomprehensible relationship to which I just don't know the details to, but It didn't allude to the Surfer's existence being essential though.

I'm just not sure.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, SS is from another reality. Besides, DS already used the OE on SS and melted his skin. SS maybe essential in another reality. But in a universe ruled by Magic...it won't be the same.

I saw that scan. If DS really blasted through Surfer's skin like that, Norrid should be dead. Byrne just drew it for effect, to make it look really painful for Norrid.

I don't even try to figure out what DS can do with the OE anymore. We don't know if we are even seeing DS, or an avatar at any given time.

In reading this post, I have realized

1. SS leaving Orion near death does not count but Darkseid flaying SS's skin from behind when he was not looking in the same book does.

It is said by a few on this board that there is a Marvel bias but I see it the other way. Also, Darkseid is a horribly overrated character on this board.