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Force Battle!

Oh god, I must stay away from this thread

Unbalanced? My bad man, I thought it was pretty close.

@ Reality Cell

This thread does not makes sense. Marka Ragnos is an unknown when it comes to talking about his personal Force abilities.

Regarding Ragnos:

It is however stated that he had a frightening grasp of the dark side power, so he would be naturally very good. He is also a talented individual as he successfully managed to unify the Sith Empire under his command and ruled it for about 100 years.

He also uses a sceptor, which can perform Force Drain.

Regarding Yoda:

Yoda is however proven to be very strong in the Force and he is among the most powerful Jedi ever known in the Star Wars Universe. He can counter many dark sided attacks by himself. His TK abilities are specially very exceptional and he has vast amount of experience at his disposal. He have lifted heavy objects with the Force, deflected Force Lightning with bare hands, was capable enough to destroy a very large Droid with the Force and could also perform Force Wave.

He also have fought against Darth Sidious and held his own against him in the entire duel.

Conclusion:

Thus in this fight one person is unknown and the other well known. So it is really hard to decide that who will win this case. Things might favor Yoda but I do not know.

We don't know much about Ragnos, so this thread is left in the dark.

Yoda since Ragnos never actually did something uber!

I'm guessing Ragnos was very powerful, though we don't know how powerful, so he's an unknown.

Well, from what I've gotten from my brother (I'll be saying this a lot) Marka Ragnos is ridiculously strong. Even stronger than Yoda. Kreia was awed by his high level of Force and physical strength. And as a rule of thumb Sith get stronger from one generation to the next unless something drastic happens like they get wiped out (yet again ). This would mean that Ragnos was the strongest Sith to have lived in all of the Sith Empire because they had never been wiped out. That means he's better than guys like Adjunta Pall and Tulak Hord. It's mainly being stronger than Hord that I'm concerned about. Kreia said that Hord would make KOTOR Masters look like children with toys (not in those exact words). That means they were stinking good, probably better than anyone to have come after them.

So Ragnos is probably extremely good with a saber (better than Yoda I believe) and has the advantage of attacking with Force Attacks where Yoda will only use it in a Lightside way.

That's entirely speculation. For all intents and purposes, Yoda would emerge victorious based on evidence.

Originally posted by Lukaton
So Ragnos is probably extremely good with a saber (better than Yoda I believe) and has the advantage of attacking with Force Attacks where Yoda will only use it in a Lightside way.

Ragnos never used a saber. He used the sith sword which was is what in is in his scepter (the scepter of ragnos). There are only two known battles he was in. Ragnos defeated Simus for the title of dark lord. Then when he possessed Tavion he was beaten by Jaden Korr. So I would say he is not uber with a sword just yet we need to see more duels involving him particularly when his alive., he has not been alive in his own body in any of his appearances. And Yoda was able to give Sidious the most powerful sith ever a run for his money si I wouldn't say he is better then Yoda.
And notice how the thread is a force battle no saber/ sword action.

In case people didn't know, Ragnos' inferior, an ancient sith lady that featured in the TotJ Companion, was able to wipe out the life of an entire planet with one force attack...

Originally posted by Gideon
That's entirely speculation. For all intents and purposes, Yoda would emerge victorious based on evidence.

I agree with you, Gideon, but don't you think Kreia's words might actually mean something? I mean, she was the Jedi historian & chronicler after all, and saying "The Masters of today are children playing with toys compared to the Masters of the past" (or something like that) must say something.

Just pointing that out, not that I think Ragnos owns Yoda.

Kreia's words do 'count for something'. She's a notoriously well-informed Sith who functions primarily as a teacher. That said, she is also a fallible character. Her statements indeed count as evidence, but what she says is not fact or gospel. It can't stand alone.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's entirely speculation. For all intents and purposes, Yoda would emerge victorious based on evidence.

It is indeed some speculation, but this isn't something we can go look at, it's just pages in a book (or comic). Some degree of speculation, when mixed with evidence (such as Kreia's words) can be the best solution. For all we know what happened to Dooku against Anakin may happen to Yoda against Ragnos due to the huge difference in physical strength.

As I've just alluded to, Kreia's words are a poor substitute for the opinions expressed by the omniscient narrator, on-panel evidence, or quotes made by other credible sources. Marka Ragnos has little going for him in the lieu of evidence. No proof to support that he is - in any way - more powerful than Yoda. Whereas the omniscient narrator of the RotS novelization officially declares Yoda "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" - essentially saying that he is the strongest Jedi in history up to that point .

We also have confirmed that Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord in history, putting him above Ragnos as well. They stalemated in their duel in RotS as well, making the most logical choice: Yoda wins.

Yoda kills him

If you want my opinion(and you do you morons), I think the authors did a bad job with the inconsistencies. Saying Ragnos had titanic force powers and a frightening grasp of the dark side, then putting him below Yoda(in terms of a debate of the known and unknown), and then having Jaden Korr defeat his spirit, the authors pretty much destroyed Ragnos' character. Someone needs to make a book about him already.

No, what was stupid were those who tried to portray the older Sith as the 'superior' or stronger Sith, when in reality, the newer Sith were vastly more effective.

Lol Ragnos would OWN him in a saber duel i dont know bout force but even Darth Traya sayed this

And i Quote (Kreia Talking about Marko Ragnos's Tomb) "If you were to see a Ancient Sith Lord such as Ragnos weilding a Lightsaber you would think we were only mere children playing with toys"

You're delusional. You just completely ignored everything I said and posted this crap? I'm insulted. You have to prove that Ragnos could do that.



I don't care what Kreia "sayed". She isn't an infallible source, and so her one quote means shit.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, what was stupid were those who tried to portray the older Sith as the 'superior' or stronger Sith, when in reality, the newer Sith were vastly more effective.

They portrayed them as superior in personal power, which is pretty clear. The newer sith were indeed more effective, but not on the power level of the ancient sith, save for Palpatine.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
They portrayed them as superior in personal power, which is pretty clear. The newer sith were indeed more effective, but not on the power level of the ancient sith, save for Palpatine.

Which, once again, to be more effective means that you are better than the old model, and you're better for a reason. To have the Ancient Sith superior than the newer Sith is a bit ridiculous, since Sith crave more power and dominance - why not use that power to achieve dominance?

Ragnos unified the Sith Empire, and still he did not conquer the Republic or the Jedi. Yet, as the PT showed us all, it was possible.

"If you were to face an ancient Sith lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the ancient masters."

Thats Kreia's Exact Quote and Dont get so heated up Gideon...

*Uses Force Lightning to fry Gideon*

*LAUGHS DARKLY*

Anyway i know Kreia's Information is not all the time accurate OH YEA anyway i was mistaken it was Tulak Hord she was talking about...ANYWAY my point is the Ancient Sith were VERY POWERFUL

That was a quote made by a fallible character. No one is denying that the Ancient Sith were "very powerful", but Kreia's quote - by itself - does not function as irrevocable fact that Ragnos is better than Yoda. You have to prove it.



Huh?

I'm not heated up. I'm simply telling you that your reasoning isn't working.



So, you even got the Sith in question wrong. Great.

What are we discussing Escape, power or achievements? Because you can technically look at this like Underworld. The first ones were the most powerful ones, the later ones accomplished more. With the exception of Palpatine of course, who completely destroys that line of thought.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What are we discussing Escape, power or achievements? Because you can technically look at this like Underworld. The first ones were the most powerful ones, the later ones accomplished more. With the exception of Palpatine of course, who completely destroys that line of thought.

How is this like Underworld?

The orignal lycans and vampires were the strongest, while the later lycans and vampires accomplished more. Notice how I said although its pretty similiar, Palpatine debunks that theory.

Originally posted by Gideon
How is this like Underworld?

As he said: The first ones are the most powerful people in terms of personal abilities / power. The people that came later archieved more by doing what they did. I guess he basically wanted to tell you that "archievements" aren't equal to "power".

It still might be the case that Ragnos, in terms of combat skill and personal power (meaning force abilities) is still above RotS Sidious, because the Sith did work differently in Ragnos age than they did in Sidious time. Based on this their might be the chance that Ragnos would beat Yoda.

If you read through "Path of Destruction" it's pretty obvious that the Jedi managed to destroy almost all ancient Sith Lore while Bane found one of the last sources containing some of that (Revan's holocron) but didn't get all included in it. And also Revan didn't know everything the ancient Sith did know.

So Ragnos might have abilities that can pretty well enough to defeat Yoda but we'll never now that.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The orignal lycans and vampires were the strongest, while the later lycans and vampires accomplished more. Notice how I said although its pretty similiar, Palpatine debunks that theory.

Actually, that's not exactly the same at all.

The 'original Lycans and vampires' were stronger because they were directly spawned from the Corvinus plague, Marcus and William. And Alexander was more powerful than all of them because the plague first manifested itself with him and his genetic structure. But Underworld never established that "older" = "better", only that the older werewolves were less human and more savage. In fact, Lucian, who is vastly younger than any Elder or William was said to be "the most feared Lycan to ever rule the horde" or some such.

Amelia, one of the three vampire Elders, got annihilated on board her train, when realistically, if you were correct, she should be able to own Lycans pretty easily. Viktor kicked Lycan ass - none of them were a match for him.

In fact, we have no real evidence that Marcus is more powerful than Viktor, physically, in a strictly vampiric sense (before he became a hybrid), since Viktor kicked Michael's ass all up and down Lucian's lair, whilst simultaneously dealing with Selene, yet Marcus was unable to do that a few hours later - with the help of his Hybrid abilities.

Furthermore, newer Lycans improved their powers to the point that they could revert to human form. They had a much greater control and mastery over it. And the latest vampires only had greater technology.

And even if you were right, this is genetics. The Force /= genetic strains.

I got the Sith in question wrong Gideon but....Kreia did say Ancient Masters......Thats Plural and i dont see how Kreia is Falliable....quote me something to prove me wrong...dont get me wrong im not challangeing you're source for telling me this i just want a quote so i can see that im wrong..

Hiya Nebaris. You're back, I see. Great.

Anyways, use of Marka Ragnos is prohibited. Byebye.