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I just finally finished Sacrifice and I must say that I am officially pissed. Why did they kill Mara? Luke needed her to balance out his character. I mean it only took like 300 tries for them to finally get a girl that his character actually worked with and they freakin off her. WTF? Jacen better get full on but raped before the end of this series and I'll still be pissed.

So basically this is a thread to talk about the Legacy books. Although I said negative things there are plenty of good things and feel free to talk about those too. And BTW, sorry I've been gone so long, got a little side-tracked for a few days after my trip.

If you discount the actual SW Saga and GL's vision, the LOTF books and the Legacy comics are quite good, although not compared with the TOTJ comics. However, if you factor in GL's vision, you begin to realize that these authors are screwing up every damn thing in the SW universe. Not to mention Jacen basically took over for Anakin Solo, since GL thought everyone was going to confuse the new Anakin with the old one(stupidity). And then they introduce new bullshit like when you become a sith master(untrained might add), you automatically get all of these special powers, as if you were playing a video games.. This shit gets more ridiculous with each issue.

legacy sucks along with most of the crap these wanabe writers put out

most of these writers are probably not even fans they just work for del ray or whatever and just pump out books until the series runs dry.

its all market research

i enjoy them, but i must admit they screwed up many things

I love the Legacy comics and novels.

Never read them, but I hear that, strictly as reading material, they're quite decent.

As pieces of SW lore however, they attempt to incorporate the same level of progression seen through the KOTOR games, but this time they REALLY f*ck things over.

I disagree, Lucas' "vision" has been impaired since Return of the Jedi. He's a crackpot.

MARA IS DEEEEEEEEEEEAD???!! YOU'VE COMPLETELY RUINED TEH B00K FOR ME NOW! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!1!!11!1111

I doubt they would have so bad if James Luceno were writing them.

The old republic books and comics were great, but maybe thats because there were a lot of force users back then. That's why I like the legacy comics. However, the original SW story has been ruined.

Oh well, Sith happens.

i like the legacy series but i do agree when jacen becomes the sith lord he "all of a sudden" knows everything. and he gives himself his own sith name. i mean thats just flat out retarded. other than that i like these books

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
i like the legacy series but i do agree when jacen becomes the sith lord he "all of a sudden" knows everything. and he gives himself his own sith name. i mean thats just flat out retarded. other than that i like these books


I didn't think so.

That's cause you're a fanboy.

Originally posted by exanda kane
I disagree, Lucas' "vision" has been impaired since Return of the Jedi. He's a crackpot.

Except for the fact that Lucas' vision is the only real important vision here. Nobody quite gives a damn about the authors.

I like how hypocritical Jacen's become.

"there is no dark side...but I can still become a Sith!"

But more especially his "sacrifice".

Let me see if I get this straight. In accordance with some whacked-out "prophecy" that Lumiya most likely made up herself, he has to go kill that which he loves to progress in his training.

But he doesn't want to kill his wife/child, so he decides to kill his aunt instead, due to some logic that Ben'll hate him if he does it, and that's good enough.

Seriously, what? If he isn't willing to kill what he loves most, then he clearly didn't live up to his "sacrifice", which makes the entire exercise pointless. If you're going to turn to the Dark Side, go all the way, don't just compromise. "Well, I'll kill this relationship, which is almost as good, though not quite." It's like deciding that you're going to go on a diet by eating only three doughnuts a day, instead of four. That's not much of a sacrifice there.

The excuses he comes up with to explain away his stupidities implies that he's really just inconsistent -- of course, since this trait has been exhibited by both of his more recent 'teachers', I guess I can't really expect anything else.

His current portrayal is quite frankly pathetic. At best, he's a bad Vader clone, minus any of the obvious character development that led to his downfall (Anakin, at least, had a history of not letting go, but looking at Jacen, it's like he decided to go turn to the Dark Side at random). He had Anakin's own history, in a similar situation with a greater manipulator (Palpatine), and he still couldn't tell the obvious. Even though the wannabe Sith herself told him that "everything I tell you is a lie", he still didn't get it.

The only way that this could end well is if he becomes a Vader clone in form as well -- I'm thinking, Luke chops his arms and legs off and Solo ends up in a suit. It would be cheesy, and cliched, and repetitive, but it's not like anything else about the story isn't, and it would serve the brat right for not figuring out what's going on, despite the fact that it's in plain sight to people who have similar information about the situation (the readers).

I liked Jacen before he was being written as an idiot, but nowadays, I basically hate his guts. I'd be happy to see him die.

Originally posted by General Zink
Except for the fact that Lucas' vision is the only real important vision here. Nobody quite gives a damn about the authors.

You value Lucas' vision over your own? Poor you.

Originally posted by Captain Bob
I like how hypocritical Jacen's become.

"there is no dark side...but I can still become a Sith!"

But more especially his "sacrifice".

Let me see if I get this straight. In accordance with some whacked-out "prophecy" that Lumiya most likely made up herself, he has to go kill that which he loves to progress in his training.

But he doesn't want to kill his wife/child, so he decides to kill his aunt instead, due to some logic that Ben'll hate him if he does it, and that's good enough.

Seriously, what? If he isn't willing to kill what he loves most, then he clearly didn't live up to his "sacrifice", which makes the entire exercise pointless. If you're going to turn to the Dark Side, go all the way, don't just compromise. "Well, I'll kill this relationship, which is almost as good, though not quite." It's like deciding that you're going to go on a diet by eating only three doughnuts a day, instead of four. That's not much of a sacrifice there.

The excuses he comes up with to explain away his stupidities implies that he's really just inconsistent -- of course, since this trait has been exhibited by both of his more recent 'teachers', I guess I can't really expect anything else.

His current portrayal is quite frankly pathetic. At best, he's a bad Vader clone, minus any of the obvious character development that led to his downfall (Anakin, at least, had a history of not letting go, but looking at Jacen, it's like he decided to go turn to the Dark Side at random). He had Anakin's own history, in a similar situation with a greater manipulator (Palpatine), and he still couldn't tell the obvious. Even though the wannabe Sith herself told him that "everything I tell you is a lie", he still didn't get it.

The only way that this could end well is if he becomes a Vader clone in form as well -- I'm thinking, Luke chops his arms and legs off and Solo ends up in a suit. It would be cheesy, and cliched, and repetitive, but it's not like anything else about the story isn't, and it would serve the brat right for not figuring out what's going on, despite the fact that it's in plain sight to people who have similar information about the situation (the readers).

I liked Jacen before he was being written as an idiot, but nowadays, I basically hate his guts. I'd be happy to see him die.

I agree. First off, it was Anakin Solo that was supposed to be the most powerful of the solos and eventually taking over the Grandmaster position, but GL killed him off because of comparisons. And to be fair, Jacen's perspective changed a whole lot during the Vong War. However I completely agree with you. The authors screwed up the entire sith/jedi legacy, and GL's vision. I wonder wtf GL is smoking nowadays, for him to let this continue.

I'm going to annoy you all with a lovely little comment now.

Jacen Solo is one of most intriguing and interesting subjects of the entire franchise.

idk. i love the books themselves, great books, check them out.

Now, as to the story, i agree with what Jacen is doing 99% of the time. He sees what he is doing, and he is trying to protect the galaxy, something palpatine wasn't trying. i find the GAG brilliant, as is Jacen, and if he did become emperor, or PM, of Chancellor, or CoS, or whatever, he will do the galaxy a great good, bringing order and stability.

As for him being a sith, yeah, that seems to be total bullshit. he would have had to have killed his daughter, and even his wife, to truly immortalize his love. And the automatic new pwoers idea is total bull as well.

Originally posted by exanda kane
You value Lucas' vision over your own? Poor you.

You haven't read the KMC policy on that subject, have you?

Lucas > Exanda Kane.

If you don't agree, then you lose all credibility and nobody cares. Just how it works here. doped

As for Jacen being intriguing...he's far from it.

Jacen's a more delusional version of Anakin..

Originally posted by Captain REX
You haven't read the KMC policy on that subject, have you?

Lucas > Exanda Kane.

If you don't agree, then you lose all credibility and nobody cares. Just how it works here. doped

As for Jacen being intriguing...he's far from it.

I'm quite aware of that Mr.Moderator Sir, and I won't waste time bickering about the neccesary flaws in those rules.

Needless to say, any kind of true criticisms based on the structure of Lucas' work all imply that Lucas himself has no idea what he is doing, whatever he might try and cock up. Lucas is a gas bag.

Anyway, I'd certainly say that Jacen is particuarly different from the majority of other one dimensional Star Wars characters and has more depth than the majority of novelty characters in the films and the EU, however shallow they may be compared to greater works.

There are no flaws in that reasoning, unfortunately. So sorry.

And Jacen is a dimwit. He has about as much depth as a mud puddle.

Actually, there are many flaws in the rules (although obviously rules are neccesary). To so blatantly disregard anyones intepretation Rex, simply because it does not agree with what a self proclaimed "Auteur" and buffon like Lucas canonizes, is an offense I find highly alarming, especially if you attempt to discuss the given subjects with any level of merit and intelligence.

I could cite the full blown ins-and-outs of structuralist and post-structuralist theory, an index of all the people such as Barthes who place emphasis on the audiences intepretation, the very ambiguity Lucas adorns himself with, but I feel it would be lost on you.

And your opinion, however valid, does not seem to be particuarly understandable. Jacen is very complex character for Star Wars, out of a backdrop of archetypes, stereotypes and dull-edged characters, he is the only character I've seen show any kind of procrastination and thought in his methods. Not even debatable.

This is not a matter of audience interpretation, so I do not know why you bother to mention it. The way Lucas has it, it's not open to interpretation whatsoever. Hence our rule, which eliminates those who claim that Dooku is a "Grey Jedi" or that the Force is balanced because there's two Sith, two Jedi, etc.

All other authors tend to trump on Lucas' vision, putting them in error as they try to implicate the kind of stuff that fanboys come up with.

I do concede on Jacen, though; buffoon though he is, he does show that much...

I'm replying to your comment that people loose all credibility when they give their own opinion. Technically this means everyone must abide Lucas' impaired reasoning and neglect any kind of interesting discussion, which as I hope you will see, is a very, very detrimental way of going about your day. Audience intepretation is very important, even here, and simply analysing Lucas' output without listening to his self-indulgent comments has merit. Nonetheless, it's a flawed rule that must be abided.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's cause you're a fanboy.

I'm not the only one who loves these novels.


Jacen Solo is one of most intriguing and interesting subjects of the entire franchise.

This is true.

Originally posted by DARKLORDCAEDUS
I'm not the only one who loves these novels.

Jacen Solo is one of most intriguing and interesting subjects of the entire franchise.

This is true.

In all fairness, that isn't saying much though.

morons

Originally posted by exanda kane
In all fairness, that isn't saying much though.


Thats true. I do think that as each novel comes out Jacen 's power will grow.

Erm...

Darth Plo Koon is a very awesome character who makes happy feelings on the inside.

This is true as well.