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Which one would you say is more powerful?

I define it in the "comic book questions" thread.

Originally posted by llagrok
I define it in the "comic book questions" thread.

Must have been a long time ago,search is coming up empty?
i have my own thoughts i wanted to compare it to yours,any links available?

There's supposed to be equal, afaik, but no one with any level of skill has ever used the PP.

The only time i remember reading about the Power Primordial was in an issue where some alien obtains it followed by the Surfer handing him his ass. So... if i were to make a conclusion from that one issue i would say Power cosmic is more powerful. As you can see i dont have much evidence save that one issue to back my statement, but its just my view. Im sure someone else can be much more informative.

Originally posted by nimbus006
The only time i remember reading about the Power Primordial was in an issue where some alien obtains it followed by the Surfer handing him his ass. So... if i were to make a conclusion from that one issue i would say Power cosmic is more powerful. As you can see i dont have much evidence save that one issue to back my statement, but its just my view. Im sure someone else can be much more informative.

All of the Elders are powered by the PP. They all basicly suck and haven't shown much in terms of ways to use the PP.

So i was right...lol nice thanx

Except the Runner Can beat pretty much any Herald. And Champion Used to be able to beat anyone's ass. So It depends on how the Elder choses to use thier power.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Except the Runner Can beat pretty much any Herald. And Champion Used to be able to beat anyone's ass. So It depends on how the Elder choses to use thier power.

Yes but heralds only have a fraction of the power cosmic. At its full strength the Power cosmic is equal to a fully fed Galactus which we all know is way beyond Runner and Champion.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And Champion Used to be able to beat anyone's ass. Except She-Hulk.

This thread doesnt make sense.

The Power Cosmic is an ability i.e the ability to absorb and re-channel ambient cosmic energy for a variety of effects

Whilst the Power Primordial is a power source. One that derives from the Big Bang.

Power Cosmic. Galactus literally consumed the elders.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This thread doesnt make sense.

The Power Cosmic is an ability i.e the ability to absorb and re-channel ambient cosmic energy for a variety of effects

Whilst the Power Primordial is a power source. One that derives from the Big Bang.
As much as that makes sense, the Power Cosmic is a power source too, probably deriving from the big bang.

Marvel has made the big bang a real **** for power sources haven't they? Yikes.

I think the power primordial was the energy from the first big bang,a pure form of cosmic power...this is from my days of roleplaying the marvel system...its not comics but i thought i would chime in

it's not a question that can really be answered because both can be wielded to varying degrees.

there are a couple of things that are known about each that make them seem very much the same to me:

the PP is essentially the 'big bang' energy (which is also the power source for the infinity gems), harnessed by the elders. the elders seem to be able to tap directly into the very foundational power of the universe.

the PC originates in galactus, but who granted that power to galactus? eternity. and what is eternity? the sentience of the universe.

so, the elders tap into the power that BIRTHED eternity, galactus was given power by the being who embodies the universe. it would seem the only difference between them is a degree of seperation -- PP taps DIRECTLY into the universe's essential foundation. PC does the same, but through GALACTUS who was allowed access to a similar power source (eternity's OWN power) by eternity.

at their most basic points, they seem to me to be the same power, working through different conduits. because of that, neither power is inherently 'greater', but rather the winner would simply depend on who had access to the greater amount, and who had the greater skill at wielding whichever power.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's not a question that can really be answered because both can be wielded to varying degrees.

there are a couple of things that are known about each that make them seem very much the same to me:

the PP is essentially the 'big bang' energy (which is also the power source for the infinity gems), harnessed by the elders. the elders seem to be able to tap directly into the very foundational power of the universe.

the PC originates in galactus, but who granted that power to galactus? eternity. and what is eternity? the sentience of the universe.

so, the elders tap into the power that BIRTHED eternity, galactus was given power by the being who embodies the universe. it would seem the only difference between them is a degree of seperation -- PP taps DIRECTLY into the universe's essential foundation. PC does the same, but through GALACTUS who was allowed access to a similar power source (eternity's OWN power) by eternity.

at their most basic points, they seem to me to be the same power, working through different conduits. because of that, neither power is inherently 'greater', but rather the winner would simply depend on who had access to the greater amount, and who had the greater skill at wielding whichever power.

Outside of Runner trashing Thanos I'd like to see a single feat that demonstrates the potential of the PP. All in all we really have no idea what the PP can do except maybe extend your life.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Outside of Runner trashing Thanos I'd like to see a single feat that demonstrates the potential of the PP. All in all we really have no idea what the PP can do except maybe extend your life. Even the Runner/Thanos battle isn't really a good way to gauge the PP, imo.

Because we don't know for sure how often Runner was subconsciously using the Space Gem during that fight. ermm

Originally posted by Galan007
Even the Runner/Thanos battle isn't really a good way to gauge the PP, imo.

Because we don't know for sure how often Runner was subconsciously using the Space Gem during that fight. ermm

Well then the time he thrashed Surfer.

In fact using the Elders at all is pointless because we don't know what powers they possess independently (does the PP give Runner his "likeability aura"?)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well then the time he thrashed Surfer.Yeah, that's that only instance I could think of as well, .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In fact using the Elders at all is pointless because we don't know what powers they possess independently I agree, for the most part.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
(does the PP give Runner his "likeability aura"?) Maybe. srug

Originally posted by starlock
Must have been a long time ago,search is coming up empty?
i have my own thoughts i wanted to compare it to yours,any links available?

It was a joke.

I posted in the wrong thread XD

each of them is able to tap into the PP for a variety of effects collector has beaten down the avengers, grandmaster has done the same. obviously immortality is another gain. ego has beaten a weak galactus and his power presumably stems from the PP as well.

again, i think it's simply a matter of who fights who, who is better skilled and who can tap the most power. both sources are essentially the same thing.

Originally posted by leonidas
ego has beaten a weak galactus and his power presumably stems from the PP as well.
You're talking about the time Galactus ran away, right?
He only did that, because the two were too evenly matched in the fight.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/451/thor22613zw6.th.jpg

Otherwise, a weak Galactus has gotten the better of Ego (and was about to destroy him before, Thor cheapshotted him).

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
Which one would you say is more powerful?

power primordial

Originally posted by guy222
power primordial

Power cosmic by a mile. the PC powers galactus. Galactus simply consumed the elders-all of them sans runner who was away at the time-simultaneously when they got to be too much of a pain in the ass.

they only survived due to the pact with death that forbid them from "dying" per se.

if all of the elders combined didn't pose a threat to the big G, the power primordial can't be very impressive at all.

note that this occurred before the "invention" of the infinity gems by marvel, so the gems or lack thereof can't be used to explain the low showing there.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Power cosmic by a mile. the PC powers galactus. Galactus simply consumed the elders-all of them sans runner who was away at the time-simultaneously when they got to be too much of a pain in the ass.

they only survived due to the pact with death that forbid them from "dying" per se.

if all of the elders combined didn't pose a threat to the big G, the power primordial can't be very impressive at all.

note that this occurred before the "invention" of the infinity gems by marvel, so the gems or lack thereof can't be used to explain the low showing there.

Elders vs Galactus. Read that last week

people keep making the same mistake over and over. just because galactus is more powerful than the grandmaster, does NOT mean the PC>PP.

Originally posted by leonidas
people keep making the same mistake over and over. just because galactus is more powerful than the grandmaster, does NOT mean the PC>PP.

The only reason we can say the PC > PP is because we don't even know what the PP does for people who use it.

We don't even know if the Elders have thier powers inherently or from the PP. If they do get everything from the PP then it's likely more versatile the the PC.

I know Champion has stated that his power comes from the PP but the way he uses it is very linear. Runner has speed and his "likability aura" the speed likely comes from the PP but the aura could just be part of who he is.

What does the Grandmaster get out of it at all? Gardener? Collecter?

Its true, i guess which ever power is more powerful depends on who is using said power, and their ability to wield it.

To put it simply the Elders need a f*cking mini. The only two who have really been used out side of the 70's/80's is Runner and Champion.

Originally posted by grey fox
To put it simply the Elders need a f*cking mini. The only two who have really been used out side of the 70's/80's is Runner and Champion.

Preach it!

I would think, by the very nature of the term, that 'power primordial', (with all else being equal) should be the stronger (certainly the more fundamental) of the two.

But in the realm of which sounds and looks cooler in writing: power cosmic ftw.

Originally posted by Mindship
I would think, by the very nature of the term, that 'power primordial', (with all else being equal) should be the stronger (certainly the more fundamental) of the two.

But in the realm of which sounds and looks cooler in writing: power cosmic ftw.



In comics the "power of the kitten force" could easily be the most powerful energy source in the cosmos.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


In comics the "power of the kitten force" could easily be the most powerful energy source in the cosmos.

Blasphemer! Do not even speak Those Words, lest the cosmos fall before the wrath of Furrbalus!

Originally posted by Mindship
Blasphemer! Do not even speak Those Words, lest the cosmos fall before the wrath of Furrbalus!

Are they like Furlings?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Are they like Furlings?

No

Originally posted by grey fox
To put it simply the Elders need a f*cking mini. The only two who have really been used out side of the 70's/80's is Runner and Champion.

Marvel should write it

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The only reason we can say the PC > PP is because we don't even know what the PP does for people who use it.

We don't even know if the Elders have thier powers inherently or from the PP. If they do get everything from the PP then it's likely more versatile the the PC.

I know Champion has stated that his power comes from the PP but the way he uses it is very linear. Runner has speed and his "likability aura" the speed likely comes from the PP but the aura could just be part of who he is.

What does the Grandmaster get out of it at all? Gardener? Collecter?

but we DO know it is the power of the big bang. that is the same source from which the PC stems. grandmaster has tapped the PP for all sorts of 'cosmic' effects, and collector has done the same.

before he became a champion jobber champion was strong enough to easily handle some of the strongest beings on earth (including thor) simultaneously and effortlessly. the elders need the annihilus treatment to define them further and to more closely examine the extent of their power.

i still see no logical way to say one is more powerful though. be like saying ironman's repulsors are more powerful than any magic because he could beat someone who could only cast illusions or something.

Originally posted by leonidas
but we DO know it is the power of the big bang. that is the same source from which the PC stems. grandmaster has tapped the PP for all sorts of 'cosmic' effects, and collector has done the same.

before he became a champion jobber champion was strong enough to easily handle some of the strongest beings on earth (including thor) simultaneously and effortlessly. the elders need the annihilus treatment to define them further and to more closely examine the extent of their power.

i still see no logical way to say one is more powerful though. be like saying ironman's repulsors are more powerful than any magic because he could beat someone who could only cast illusions or something.

I was just talking about feats accomplished by people using the PP and the PC.

Originally posted by guy222
Marvel should write it
Really? I was hoping for Wildstorm actually, friend.

Originally posted by Validus
Really? I was hoping for Wildstorm actually, friend.

Sounds good

Enjoy ur day

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I was just talking about feats accomplished by people using the PP and the PC.

but if we're comparing, we need to compare the nature of the power itself is all i'm saying.

that's why i think the thread is pointless in that it is unanswerable. everyone is comparing feats and characters who wield both, but that is not gonna get anyone the answer to the question.

imo they are both the same thing.

Originally posted by leonidas
but if we're comparing, we need to compare the nature of the power itself is all i'm saying.

that's why i think the thread is pointless in that it is unanswerable. everyone is comparing feats and characters who wield both, but that is not gonna get anyone the answer to the question.


srug It's the only way I see to compare them.

Originally posted by leonidas
imo they are both the same thing.

Then why do they have different names?

Plus Galactus can bestow the PC but the PP seems to be channeled thanks to their obsessions.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
srug It's the only way I see to compare them.



Then why do they have different names?

who let you into the corps again . . .?



bestowing does not equate to being 'more powerful'. and i'm not sure where you got the notion of the PP coming from their obsessions. that idea doesn't really fit with me. it's uncertain where they came into initial contact with the PP, but having lived as long as they have, it's not hard to imagine them coming across this power source at some point or other. i'm fairly certain from what we've been shown of their history, that they had their obsessions first, then somehow came into the PP.

Originally posted by leonidas
who let you into the corps again . . .?

conk

Originally posted by leonidas
bestowing does not equate to being 'more powerful'. and i'm not sure where you got the notion of the PP coming from their obsessions. that idea doesn't really fit with me. it's uncertain where they came into initial contact with the PP, but having lived as long as they have, it's not hard to imagine them coming across this power source at some point or other. i'm fairly certain from what we've been shown of their history, that they had their obsessions first, then somehow came into the PP.

I'm saying that they're not the same thing because the source is different. There are a lot of people with cosmic power but the only ones (to my knowledge) that call it the "power cosmic" are Galactus and his heralds.

I always sort of assumed that the PP was somehow connected to thier obsessions since in each case it would seem to enhance their ability to follow each obsession.

What are the odds that they would all come across it? When/How would someone like Champion find it?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
conk







but it is fact that the PP is the power of the big bang. the SAME power that birthed eternity who in turn bequeathed some of his power to galactus.



they have been 'brothers' for billions of years and it is not hard to think of one of them finding it and telling the others. or perhaps as they studied, they came across it. i don't know. it's unrevealed how they came across it.

their immortality isn't a result of the PP -- their will to become the greatest at whatever they are 'obsessed' about is what keeps them alive. when one of them . . . loses interest in their pursuit (demonstrates apathy), they die like anyone else. i think it happened to collector's daughter maybe? one of them anyway.

do we know what the true extent of the PP is? no. could an elder proficient enough in its use defeat galactus or bestow it? who knows. no one knows how many elders are out there. i'm saying based on their respective origins, there is no real way to say one 'power' is more powerful -- they are essentially the same. the only difference is the level to which they are being tapped (g can delve deeply into the PC well) and the skill at wielding it.

Originally posted by leonidas
but it is fact that the PP is the power of the big bang. the SAME power that birthed eternity who in turn bequeathed some of his power to galactus.

They would still be different IMO since being a part of Galactus would likely change the power.

But we'll never know for sure. Unless Marvel gets off its collective ass and makes good solid origin for the Elders (or at the very least shrouds them in mystery rather than just utter lack of history)

Originally posted by leonidas
they have been 'brothers' for billions of years and it is not hard to think of one of them finding it and telling the others. or perhaps as they studied, they came across it. i don't know. it's unrevealed how they came across it.

their immortality isn't a result of the PP -- their will to become the greatest at whatever they are 'obsessed' about is what keeps them alive. when one of them . . . loses interest in their pursuit (demonstrates apathy), they die like anyone else. i think it happened to collector's daughter maybe? one of them anyway.

do we know what the true extent of the PP is? no. could an elder proficient enough in its use defeat galactus or bestow it? who knows. no one knows how many elders are out there. i'm saying based on their respective origins, there is no real way to say one 'power' is more powerful -- they are essentially the same. the only difference is the level to which they are being tapped (g can delve deeply into the PC well) and the skill at wielding it.

sly Fine. Be that way.

Originally posted by starlock
I think the power primordial was the energy from the first big bang,a pure form of cosmic power...this is from my days of roleplaying the marvel system...its not comics but i thought i would chime in

Well lets put it this way..
Have Elders with the power primordial channeled cosmic energy- i think so
Does anybody know if anybody with the power cosmic has ever channeld the power primordial? i dont think so(going with my theory that PP is a ancient pure form of CP)

The elder are old enough to have been affected by the energy of the power primordial...it has since been watered down as the universes grow and expand

This imo would give the power primordial the advantage..but it is a far out theory at best gotten from my days of roleplaying lol,just me chimming in again