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Pretty nifty cool idea:

Wii Lightsaber controller


starwars

Yes, one of the oldest ideas going about the Wii.

But FAR more fraught with problems than many people seem to want to consider.

I'm thinking is going to be a new Jedi Academy game...exclusive for the Wii.

Disappointing.

Yeah disappointing for all the non-Wii owners

LMAO, right.

I wish I hadn't jumped the gun and bought a 360. I could've waited the two months to buy a Wii

The idea seems pretty cool to me, although you could sword fight in Red Steel I believe.

I like the premise a lot.

However, similar games like Red Steel was such a let down because of the controller issues.

red steel used preset positions for the sword (i.e. hold it 'this' way to do this.. and 'that' way to block / parry etc)

if the lightsaber game uses the full range of what wiimote is capable of you may have a decent 1v1 saber duel

Does any consider what would happen when the in game swords collide? The wiimote cant simulate that and magically stop your arm. lol

Originally posted by AstroFan
Does any consider what would happen when the in game swords collide? The wiimote cant simulate that and magically stop your arm. lol so?.. hitting the ball in wii tennis didnt send a shock up your arm either.. but was still fun to play

perhaps they'll have a collision cutscene where you rapidly press A to break it... or maybe you can psyche em out and pull back on the blade to leave the enemy open.. there are lots of ways to handle such a situation and still keep it fun

I'd love to see a video of two people sword fighting using the wiimote

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
red steel used preset positions for the sword (i.e. hold it 'this' way to do this.. and 'that' way to block / parry etc)

if the lightsaber game uses the full range of what wiimote is capable of you may have a decent 1v1 saber duel

And THAT is a precise example of what I said above about people not wanting to consider things.

Why do so many people fail to think properly about this issue?

Red Steel did the only sensible thing. An attempt to do fully mapped sword fighting would be a pile of total crap.

You CANNOT simulate 'proper' lightsabre duels using the Wiimote. You can't move your feet enough and you cannot simulate your body posiition, which is vital for the 1-1 fighting that people seem to want. And as noted, you cannot simulate blade clash.

It is a foolish dream. Any control system for swords would be in a similar manner to Red Steel's. I am sure there is room for improvement on that, but NOT what people seem to keen to imagine.

Well what we need is a rumble feature for the Wii-Mote that would tell you to pull out of a blade lock.

That makes no difference to the problem at all, the problem being that true 1-1 immersion is impossible.

It's always going to be some variant of what they did in Red Steel.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
And THAT is a precise example of what I said above about people not wanting to consider things.

Why do so many people fail to think properly about this issue?

Red Steel did the only sensible thing. An attempt to do fully mapped sword fighting would be a pile of total crap.

You CANNOT simulate 'proper' lightsabre duels using the Wiimote. You can't move your feet enough and you cannot simulate your body posiition, which is vital for the 1-1 fighting that people seem to want. And as noted, you cannot simulate blade clash.

It is a foolish dream. Any control system for swords would be in a similar manner to Red Steel's. I am sure there is room for improvement on that, but NOT what people seem to keen to imagine.

the only way they'll ever find out how to go about making a lightsaber based dueling game is if they try and screw up

sitting here saying "its gonna suck" is just as pointless as pointing out that its not going to be as good as the movies

if they make it I'm gonna check it out.. but of course I dont expect it to win any editors choice or game of the year awards

you call pre-mapped controls, on a motion sensor controller... a sensible thing?..

the Wii system is based on interfacing with a game in intuitive ways..(as opposed to half-assed console to console ports which take the gimmick method of just remapping the controls) pre-mapped is the total opposite of intuitive... its flat out lazy

we'll never hit the next age of gaming with red steels lazy logic

I didn;t say it's going to suckj. I said it's not going to be this mapped 1:1 perfect simulation dream that people tend to babble on about ]because that is not possible

I do call it a sensible thing, yes, because it works. As opposed to your idea which does not. Incidentally, just by meting motion activcated the controls were automatically more inutitive.

As I say, they xan be imrpvoed. But to try and map them directly is an idiot's game. And they really will not try it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I do call it a sensible thing, yes, because it works. As opposed to your idea which does not. Incidentally, just by meting motion activcated the controls were automatically more inutitive.

because, incidentally, you've played a game that included "my idea" for you to say that it doesnt work?

just giving it motion controller support doesnt make it intuitive.. thats just a gimmick.. designing the control scheme around what the motion controller is capable of, is intuitive

Originally posted by Ushgarak
As I say, they xan be imrpvoed. But to try and map them directly is an idiot's game. And they really will not try it.

then they should move about their business and make it on ps2... pre-mapped design can be performed on a digital pad just as easily if not much faster and more precise

they're wasting what the controller is capable of

I dont disagree that its a difficult task to undertake.. but if they want to do it at least partially right, I would suggest having full control of the blade...

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
so?.. hitting the ball in wii tennis didnt send a shock up your arm either.. but was still fun to play

perhaps they'll have a collision cutscene where you rapidly press A to break it... or maybe you can psyche em out and pull back on the blade to leave the enemy open.. there are lots of ways to handle such a situation and still keep it fun Well when playing Tennis, the racket doesn't suddenly stop on impact when hitting the ball. It continues in motion after hitting the ball.

When coming in contact with another sword, you stop b/c of the force of the other sword against yours.

I see what you're saying though.

It's not IMPOSSIBLE for it to be achieved, if only to come close to it.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
because, incidentally, you've played a game that included "my idea" for you to say that it doesnt work?

just giving it motion controller support doesnt make it intuitive.. thats just a gimmick.. designing the control scheme around what the motion controller is capable of, is intuitive



then they should move about their business and make it on ps2... pre-mapped design can be performed on a digital pad just as easily if not much faster and more precise

they're wasting what the controller is capable of

I dont disagree that its a difficult task to undertake.. but if they want to do it at least partially right, I would suggest having full control of the blade...

Full control of the blade simply = useless. It is a total lack of perspective to think it possible in any form of decent gameplay sense. You only need to think about it properly to see that. There are so many vital reasons why it simply would not work, I cannot believe anyone seriously considers the idea.

It simply, and absolutely, will not work.

Your other sentiments are wrong also. many people found Red Steel's controls plentifully intuitive, regardless of your opinion on the matter. Fact of the matter is, Red Steel would have been no damn good were it not on the Wii. it was only the control novelty that made it at all worthwhile. And hence no, they should not just stick to a PS2. They'll do it on Wii and be rightly praised for it. NOT doing it 1:1, which cannot work.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Full control of the blade simply = useless. It is a total lack of perspective to think it possible in any form of decent gameplay sense. You only need to think about it properly to see that. There are so many vital reasons why it simply would not work, I cannot believe anyone seriously considers the idea.

Vital?.. its a game... the process of game development is an experiment all by itself.. its perfectly reasonable to wonder about freeform saber control

your complaints were that you dont have full control over your body... you dont have that control in any game (that I know of) to date, so why is that such a big deal with this game?

what I dont want to see is Red Steel : Jedi Edition..

I'd like to see some new takes on sword battles with motion capture

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Your other sentiments are wrong also. many people found Red Steel's controls plentifully intuitive, regardless of your opinion on the matter. Fact of the matter is, Red Steel would have been no damn good were it not on the Wii. it was only the control novelty that made it at all worthwhile. And hence no, they should not just stick to a PS2. They'll do it on Wii and be rightly praised for it. NOT doing it 1:1, which cannot work.

Exactly.. it was only a novelty.. Red Steel is exemplary of what one would call a gimmick.. if not for the half-assed motion controls.. the game would have nothing going for it instead of almost nothing

you say 'they never stay true to the films' , 'fraught with problems' etc.. and then its 'they'll be rightly praised for making it on the wii'? I'm confused here.. what is your proposed controller layout, then? Red Steel 2.0? and 1:1 would allow for more complex controls.. when you start putting multiple targets then you have to worry about targeting systems instead of combat

what I'm saying is, they need to experiment with all the possibilities the new medium provides.. if they are going to stick to simplistic things with a device that tries to bring new things to the gaming table.. they should honestly just release it for something else

i agree.....with both of you
the probably wont be realistic just because it uses wii controls
but, the only to get them they way people find realistic and enjoyable is to have a go, then learn from mistakes

I think this might clear the waters a bit

"If you waggle the Wii Remote, a character armed with a lightsaber will swing it with the same abandon you swing. If you jump or double jump first, you'll perform a slam or super slam attack. In addition, if you swing when a bolt is incoming, you'll be able to swat away blaster fire (rather than just having to hold your lightsaber still). Swinging the lightsaber with the Wii Remote is a bit faster than just pressing the trigger, and the effects you generate more powerful, but the real payoff is simply swinging your "lightsaber" in real life.

We spent a good chunk of time playing as a few Force-using characters in the Wii version of the game -- Yoda, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon -- and were really pleased with the Wii control scheme. It's not the dueling game everyone is hoping for, but it fits the gameplay of Lego Star Wars and the Wii itself perfectly. It's fundamentally more fun to play Lego Star Wars swinging a lightsaber instead of clicking a trigger to make your character swing a lightsaber. LucasArts' task was to make the game a bit more ridiculously fun for adults but to keep it accessible for kids. It's a tall order, but one The Complete Saga looks ready to fill. "

http://wii.gamespy.com/wii/lego-star-wars-the-complete-saga-/802001p1.html

hang on, is all this whole debate just over lego SW??
i thought it was a completely seperate game to the lego SW series

no we weren't talking about Lego star wars

wtf is SDJ on about then?

The only way to have it partially work is to NOT have it first person, but to have it third person, and to have it using the nunchuck with the Wiimote. Think Jedi Knight but with full 1:1 saber movement with far better blade collision detection. This would be the only feasible way as Ush pointed out there are just too many issues. like 1) you cant move your body, or feet which are INTEGRAL to dueling, 2) you cant move your head...in a duel you don't attack solely at at persons head and mid section, you'd need to be able to move your head to look around, but seperate from your blade. Then as was pointed out the blade collission issues. The only way for it to be done is basically a Jedi Knight game but where you are in control of your blade completely.

oops!! double post

sorry

we are talking about the possibility of a wii exclusive game that isnt a lego piece jumping around

i think it would work, but nintendo would have to work on it

the blades crashing thing would be an issue, but only in multiplayer, it the ame was one player it would work fine

and there are examples, Zelda TP anyone?

you used motion controls to swing the sword and even when the enemy blocked you with their sword, it threw your sword off to the side

it would work, but it would need to be more like zelda than actually controlling the lightsabers every movement

hope that was clear...

I really think that if this game was to be made, the audience this game is being directed towards would really want complete control over their swinging of the lightsaber and not what The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess had to offer in terms of sword swinging mechanics.

Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

true but im just giving suggestions

As I said, a full 1:1 first person Jedi lightsaber dueling game would be near impossible to implement, I really cant see a first person dueling game EVER be 1:1, there are just too many issues. A 3rd person 1:1 Jedi game is a different story though.

yeah it could definitely be done

I knew it

The Force Unleashed for Wii (surely it's a port of the unseen PS2 version)

http://wii.ign.com/articles/820/820763p1.html

and It's gonna have a Duel mode

Originally posted by S_D_J
I knew it

The Force Unleashed for Wii (surely it's a port of the unseen PS2 version)

http://wii.ign.com/articles/820/820763p1.html

and It's gonna have a Duel mode

I believe most of this info is the force unleashed thread... didn't know they'd have the gall to release it for Wii though, as this is supposed to be an X360 / PS3 title

They had better release it for the Wii

It'd be stupid not to, seeing as it will probably be the most fun onthe Wii.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I believe most of this info is the force unleashed thread... didn't know they'd have the gall to release it for Wii though, as this is supposed to be an X360 / PS3 title

I posted it here, seeing how heated this thread got months ago, and it all righteousness, it's the first SW game to "use the wiimote as a lightsaber" unlike the gimmick in SW Lego.

another reason is that it's gonna have a Duel Mode, however that works, which was one of the big discussion points in the thread.

the game it's not a Next gen exclusive, There's a PS2 version (though it've never been seen), there's no problem in making a port for the Wii. I just hope it isn't a simple PS2 port with Red Steel controls .

and did I mention there are PSP and DS version as well?

I wonder if you could use two lightsabers at a time. hmm

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I wonder if you could use two lightsabers at a time. hmm

that oughta be awesome

though I dont think so, just a two player (both with Wiimote and Nunchuck) duel mode.

but hey, anything it's possible as it seems

Update!

Ok everyone in that article and the comments talk about it not being 1:1.
Anyone can explain wtf that means?

You can only wield one Lightsaber at a time.

Still cool though.

Originally posted by Morridini
Ok everyone in that article and the comments talk about it not being 1:1.
Anyone can explain wtf that means?

1:1 would mean that the lightsaber followed your hand motions exactly. Not 1:1 means that the Wiimote detects motion in a general direction (horizontal, vertical, diagonal), and then the character's saber moves in that general direction.

so its like red steel in terms of sword movement??
i think its a good system, especially since the game is 3rd person, and it'll be impossible to use 1:1 on a 3rd person game..

Originally posted by General Kaliero
1:1 would mean that the lightsaber followed your hand motions exactly. Not 1:1 means that the Wiimote detects motion in a general direction (horizontal, vertical, diagonal), and then the character's saber moves in that general direction.

Aha, did we expect anyone else?

Update

Well thats crap, I was hyped for a Wii-exclusive saber simulation game, but its just Force Unleashed.

Yeah, but that's kinda been confirmed ages ago.

Also, the Wii version is the only one that get the duel mode.

Originally posted by Outbound
Well thats crap, I was hyped for a Wii-exclusive saber simulation game, but its just Force Unleashed.
Meh. I figured as much (even though I wasn't paying that much attention to the confirmations)...

Hopefully they won't drop the ball on the controls of this game... like so many non-directly nintendo wii games before.