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The last thread was crap....made new one.

Apocalypse
Onslaught
Mr. Sinister
Omega Red
Nimrod
Classic juggernaut
Magneto
Dark Phoenix

Apollo
Midnighter
Doctor
Jack
Jenny Q
Jenny S
Swift
Engineer


Can the A-Team win this?

My only question is, can the A-Team can handle mind rapes?

Originally posted by Endrict
My only question is, can the A-Team can handle mind rapes?

The Doctor can dish 'em out but I don't recall him having any resistance to them himself.

The rest are probably as vulnerable as a normal person.

Originally posted by Endrict
The last thread was crap....made new one.

Apocalypse
Onslaught
Mr. Sinister
Omega Red
Nimrod
Classic juggernaut
Magneto
Dark Phoenix

Apollo
Midnighter
Doctor
Jack
Jenny Q
Jenny S
Swift
Engineer


Can the A-Team win this?

This matchup is so bad it should scream "spite thread"

Dark Phoenix and Onslaught are both essentially unstoppable. They'd wipe out the authority in seconds.

even without them, Apocalypse has an unlimited supply of powers to choose from, and celestial level technology. Sinister, Nimrod and Classic Juggernaut are essentially invulnerable.

The authority might have a shot if this team consisted of just Omega Red, as he kind of sucks.

horrible, horrible thread. Why not just put the authority vs. the Sinestro Corps? they MIGHT have a shot there

Originally posted by Space M ummy
This matchup is so bad it should scream "spite thread"

Dark Phoenix and Onslaught are both essentially unstoppable. They'd wipe out the authority in seconds.

They're really the only threats though.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
even without them, Apocalypse has an unlimited supply of powers to choose from, and celestial level technology. Sinister, Nimrod and Classic Juggernaut are essentially invulnerable.


Apoc hardly uses his powers anymore and even the ones that he does have are nothing next to the Doc and Jennys. The tech comes from the celestials but it hardly put the user on their level.

Sinister is far from invulnerable and the others can be sent to another dimension.

Sorry I mean, not new APOC,,,

Originally posted by Endrict
The last thread was crap....made new one.

Apocalypse
Onslaught
Mr. Sinister
Omega Red
Nimrod
Classic juggernaut
Magneto
Dark Phoenix

Apollo
Midnighter
Doctor
Jack
Jenny Q
Jenny S
Swift
Engineer


Can the A-Team win this?

villians ftw

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
They're really the only threats though.

I wouldn't go that far- but their powers are so far above the levels that the authority is at, it's ridiculous to have them there. you may as well put "pre retcon beyonder" in there with them, because they have just as much of a chance against that thing. (read: none at all, dead in nanoseconds.)




Poor writing may mean we rarely see apocalypse use his abilities to his fullest, but he does most certainly still have them-



Control of the body down the molecular level? psionic powers? energy absorption and projection? Size manipulation? Strength EXCEEDING hulk levels? Serious business. The doctor MIGHT be able to matter manipulate apocalypse, but that's debatable.



Sinister's powers also include total control over his body- Classic Sinister was completely invulnerable to everything short of cyclops' optic blasts, and even that was retconned into a "ruse" by sinister- Cyclops' powers are totally ineffective on him now. Nothing has been shown to ever really do serious damage to sinister.

In his last appearance his powers appeared to be breaking down and not allowing him to shapeshift/teleport, but I have no idea what was going on there. I'm assuming for this fight he's at his usual levels.

Does the Authority have access to the Carrier?

The Authority has no less than 3 people with telepathy skills, and are mind-linked during battles, so no one's really going down telepathically.

I have no problem with the Authority losing this match, but it always pains me to see people who obviously don't know what they're talking about but like to appear confident. If you haven't read much Authority, and are authoritatively asserting an opinion, I'm likely talking to you.

Anyway, Angie's f*cked against Magneto, and Jenny and The Doctor would be working overtime against people who are likely their equal. It would have to be in a city for Jack to be useful...otherwise he's worthless. If it is in a city though, it would be a good fight. Toronto, perhaps, punching, exploding, and generally harassing them would kill a few outright and detain others indefinitely (Juggs)....and Apoc isn't any better than Apollo.

DP/Onslaught vs. Jenny/Doctor would determine the thing though. So whoever you think wins there. Swift, Midnighter, Omega Red, and probably Sinister are all non-factors. The rest can stalemate for a while. I only lean toward the villians because Angie's screwed, and Mags can definitely help his team against the big guns.

Oh yah sorry Jack is in NYC

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Authority has no less than 3 people with telepathy skills, and are mind-linked during battles, so no one's really going down telepathically.

3 people with telepathy versus Onslaught and Dark Phoenix??? you're insane if you don't think they'll be mind wiped in seconds here. I've read the authority, contrary to what you might think. there's no telepathic feats anywhere that put them anywhere close to the level of those two.

Don't forget: Onslaught is Franklin Richards + Nate Gray + Professor X + Magneto.

Dark Phoenix is a TP/TK so powerful, it EATS STARS. Dark Phoenix most certainly could simply nova the sun and wipe out everyone here. The authority would not survive that.

Apocalypse and Sinister are also telepaths by the way- but I don't think it even matters at this point.



er..your problem here is that you're assuming that anyone on the authority's level can "stalemate" dark phoenix or onslaught. either one of those two would eliminate everyone short of the doctor inside of a few seconds. Dark phoenix in particular is certainly capable of reducing even a city the size of new york to ashes in moments. Jack isn't a factor at all.

Then it's The Doctor (or Jenny) versus the entire villain team. it's not even a contest.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Poor writing may mean we rarely see apocalypse use his abilities to his fullest, but he does most certainly still have them-

Control of the body down the molecular level? psionic powers? energy absorption and projection? Size manipulation? Strength EXCEEDING hulk levels? Serious business. The doctor MIGHT be able to matter manipulate apocalypse, but that's debatable.

The Doctor can convert matter into music. Thats better than molecular level control of matter.
He has made himself huge in the past so being giant would hardly help.
Apoc's strength doesn't exceed Hulk's by any margin nor would it become a factor in this fight.

Apocalypse has absolutely no chance of taking him down

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Sinister's powers also include total control over his body- Classic Sinister was completely invulnerable to everything short of cyclops' optic blasts, and even that was retconned into a "ruse" by sinister- Cyclops' powers are totally ineffective on him now. Nothing has been shown to ever really do serious damage to sinister.

In his last appearance his powers appeared to be breaking down and not allowing him to shapeshift/teleport, but I have no idea what was going on there. I'm assuming for this fight he's at his usual levels.

My mistake. But he still lacks protection from BFR or the ungodly sort of mindrape the Doctor has been shown to be capable of.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The Doctor can convert matter into music. Thats better than molecular level control of matter.

Matter into music? not to bring real world physics into a comic debate, but all that is would be converting matter into energy, specifically sound vibrations. The surfer could probably pull that off.

Onslaught has all of Franklin Richard's reality warping powers. Onslaught made a second sun from NOTHING. Franklin Made an entire universe. IIRC, The Doctor can only extend his abilities so far before doing massive damage to either himself or the environment.

Onslaught's reality warping >>>>>>> the Doctor's. Dark Phoenix Also has essentially unlimited matter manipulation as well.



The quote I posted was from Marvel.com. If they say Apocalypse's strength can exceed hulk levels, that's certainly the case. It isn't wikipedia. Also remember that Apocalypse was able to put Hulk in a choke hold, and Hulk had to ASK to be let go. Apocalypse is strong as hell.



The Doctor isn't going to be mindraping anyone. Onslaught and DP's psionic abilities outclass his by an order of magnitude. If anything the doctor is going to be very, very busy not having his mind fried.

BFR isn't an issue, as either onslaught or DP can cross dimensions and bring them back if they have to.

any way you slice it, the authority is F*cked here.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Onslaught has all of Franklin Richard's reality warping powers. Onslaught made a second sun from NOTHING. Franklin Made an entire universe. IIRC, The Doctor can only extend his abilities so far before doing massive damage to either himself or the environment.

Onslaught's reality warping >>>>>>> the Doctor's. Dark Phoenix Also has essentially unlimited matter manipulation as well.

The Doctor did create a universe once

Yeah Onslaught and DP tip the scales completely to the

Originally posted by Space M ummy
The quote I posted was from Marvel.com. If they say Apocalypse's strength can exceed hulk levels, that's certainly the case. It isn't wikipedia. Also remember that Apocalypse was able to put Hulk in a choke hold, and Hulk had to ASK to be let go. Apocalypse is strong as hell.

Last I checked Marvel.com had IronMan with 7 for all his stats. Bios mean jack.

Not to mention Hulk wasn't out muscled Apoc just had much better leverage.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
The Doctor isn't going to be mindraping anyone. Onslaught and DP's psionic abilities outclass his by an order of magnitude. If anything the doctor is going to be very, very busy not having his mind fried.

BFR isn't an issue, as either onslaught or DP can cross dimensions and bring them back if they have to.

any way you slice it, the authority is F*cked here.

Again Onslaught and DP are really the only things that let the villians win IMO. Without them the team is screwed.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


that was kind of my point. Onslaught and DP are so far above everyone else on the list it's a mystery why they're there in the first place.





I ignore the "stats" in the corner, as they really aren't well defined- kind of like the old marvel trading cards back in the day, a "7" could simply mean something like "class 100 or over" "genius or over" "black belt or over" etc. In that case, Iron man WOULD have a 7 in all stats, depending on what armor he was wearing at the time.

The character histories are a little more reliable, I think. But that's a debate for a different time.



It's the freaking hulk. Leverage shouldn't even be an issue. In any case, Apoc had the technology to increase the hulk's strength when he turned him into "war hulk." If he could do it to hulk, it stands to reason he could amp his own strength to incredible levels if he felt like doing so.

Again though, different debate for a different time.



without the doctor, the authority is screwed. what's your point? they're in there, he's in there, this fight is lopsidedly bad.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
that was kind of my point. Onslaught and DP are so far above everyone else on the list it's a mystery why they're there in the first place.





I ignore the "stats" in the corner, as they really aren't well defined- kind of like the old marvel trading cards back in the day, a "7" could simply mean something like "class 100 or over" "genius or over" "black belt or over" etc. In that case, Iron man WOULD have a 7 in all stats, depending on what armor he was wearing at the time.

The character histories are a little more reliable, I think. But that's a debate for a different time.



It's the freaking hulk. Leverage shouldn't even be an issue. In any case, Apoc had the technology to increase the hulk's strength when he turned him into "war hulk." If he could do it to hulk, it stands to reason he could amp his own strength to incredible levels if he felt like doing so.

Again though, different debate for a different time.



without the doctor, the authority is screwed. what's your point? they're in there, he's in there, this fight is lopsidedly bad.

It had seemed to be your contention that Onslaught and DP weren't the only thing that made this a win for the villains.

The villains would win... but lmao at Apocalypse vs The Doctor.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It had seemed to be your contention that Onslaught and DP weren't the only thing that made this a win for the villains.

they're the only thing that make this a horrible curbstomp.

The rest of the team is nothing to sneeze at- classic apocalypse and sinister are really, really powerful, as are magneto and nimrod but it would at least be a fight.

If it was the authority (minus the doctor) versus the team (minus DP and Onslaught) I'd give the team the majority.

...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I have no problem with the Authority losing this match, but it always pains me to see people who obviously don't know what they're talking about but like to appear confident. If you haven't read much Authority, and are authoritatively asserting an opinion, I'm likely talking to you.
Honestly, theres no need to talk to Batdude like this.

Originally posted by Validus
Honestly, theres no need to talk to Batdude like this.



...no, batdude and I understand each other. Also, Im bumping my last post because I took a while with it....end of the page sucks.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
3 people with telepathy versus Onslaught and Dark Phoenix??? you're insane if you don't think they'll be mind wiped in seconds here. I've read the authority, contrary to what you might think. there's no telepathic feats anywhere that put them anywhere close to the level of those two.

Dark Phoenix is a TP/TK so powerful, it EATS STARS. Dark Phoenix most certainly could simply nova the sun and wipe out everyone here. The authority would not survive that.

The Doctor can eat stars if he wants....so I'm not really impressed by that. He's also cut off telepathic connections from high-level telepaths. And there's 2 others on the team with tp ability. So yeah, they don't have the tp advantage, but "OMFG Onslotzzz! and DP" isn't really a credible argument for saying that. They don't need to "win" at tp...just block it.

Also, the supernova would make Apollo stronger, and Jenny has swallowed supernovas before without any ill effects. So..um...still nothing.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Don't forget: Onslaught is Franklin Richards + Nate Gray + Professor X + Magneto.

There's different versions of Onslaught. The default one is Xaver/Magneto in most threads. And based solely on feats, The Doctor is >>> franklin, despite the unbelievably asinine "Celestial Level" hype surrounding him.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
er..your problem here is that you're assuming that anyone on the authority's level can "stalemate" dark phoenix or onslaught. either one of those two would eliminate everyone short of the doctor inside of a few seconds. Dark phoenix in particular is certainly capable of reducing even a city the size of new york to ashes in moments. Jack isn't a factor at all.

Then it's The Doctor (or Jenny) versus the entire villain team. it's not even a contest.

No, my problem is that: We're in agreement here in terms of the outcome. I said they'd lose and outlined what I thought. You're not really debating me then...you're just trying to tell me I have no idea what The Authority are capable of, when I'm more versed on them than pretty much anyone on the forum...and certainly not when I haven't seen a feat that Authority hasn't duplicated or topped.

Also, when is Jack fighting DP instead of the Authority's big guns??? If she gets to wipe him out in 5 seconds, then Jack gets to kill Omega Red, Nimrod, and Sinister in the same amount of time. It's not just New York sitting there waiting to be killed....it's trillions of tons of concrete and metal attacking the crap out of everyone.

honestly, maybe on KMC they would lose, but if this was an actual fight in a comic, the Authority would take this.

lets look through this. I'm a huge Authority fanboy, so if anyone disagrees with a point I'm making, lets hammer it out reasonably...

Apocalypse
Onslaught
Mr. Sinister
Omega Red
Nimrod
Classic juggernaut
Magneto
Dark Phoenix

Apollo
Midnighter
Doctor
Jack
Jenny Q
Jenny S
Swift
Engineer

if you're giving the Carrier to the authority, Apoc, Omega Red, Juggernaut, Sinister, and Nimrod can all be tossed into the Bleed. Sinister, Apoc, and Nimrod could probably find their way back, eventually (Bleed technology is WAY advanced...) but they would have to get through the various creatures and beings that live within it...

so we're left with....

Magneto, Dark Phoenix, and Onslaught

If you've ever read the Authority, you'd realize that telepathic attacks probably won't work on either of the Jenny's, the Doctor, or the Engineer. So a quick win from Onslaught isn't going to win. Magneto would probably f--- over Jenny Sparks or the Engineer... so if the Authority were playing this smart (which they ALWAYS do) ... they would put...say... Apollo and the Midnighter after Magneto. Magneto, in the long run, would probably pull the win against them... but they would be able to match him for a while at least.

so that leaves us with Dark Phoenix and Onslaught versus Jack Hawksmoor, Jenny Quantum, Jenny Sparks, the Doctor, Swift, and the Engineer (why didn't you include Rose Tattoo... she's a member also...)

Jenny Q. and the Doctor's feats have proven that they have better matter manipulation than I have seen out of Onslaught. You can bring up Franklin Richards feats... but that would be implying that Onslaught had full control of his powers, and had F. Richards at his full potential, a claim which I would LOVE to see proof of. The Doctor has a number of weapons to use against Onslaught... time manipulation, astral plane battles, energy absportion....between Jenny Sparks distracting Onslaught into focusing on his magnetic powers on her, and a bombardment from the Doctor, I don't see him winning. It honestly would not be that difficult AT ALL for the Doctor to simply kill both Magneto and Xavier at birth... read the storyline in which the previous doctor gains his powers back from Jeroem.

Dark Phoenix is the quandry though.... although I think Jenny Q. could stalemate her long enough for the Doctor and Jenny S. to finish off Onslaught... which would allow them to help with Midnighter and Apollo versus Magneto... and then bringing the full team against Phoenix...

Battle begins...

Dark Phoenix destroys the planet Earth in one swipe

Dark Phoenix ftw

The Carrier shouldn't be assumed unless the thread-starter specifies it, which he didn't.

Otherwise, yeah, you have a sentient baby universe with world destroying capabilities and the ability to phase in and out of various dimensions at will.

But you can't just insert it to give the Authority the win.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Battle begins...

Dark Phoenix destroys the planet Earth in one swipe

Dark Phoenix ftw

It really depends on what your opinion is of DP. Hell, Magneto gave her a brain seizure once....so it's not like she's omnipotent.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Carrier shouldn't be assumed unless the thread-starter specifies it, which he didn't.

Otherwise, yeah, you have a sentient baby universe with world destroying capabilities and the ability to phase in and out of various dimensions at will.

Wouldn't that be universe destroying capabilities?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wouldn't that be universe destroying capabilities?

Meh, it's never done anything quite that powerful...I really doubt it could have that kind of scope. If you paired it with Doctor's time travel abilities though, you might be able to make a case for universe-destroying, but that's obviously a bit of a loophole to "attack" the universe at a young state.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Doctor can eat stars if he wants....so I'm not really impressed by that. He's also cut off telepathic connections from high-level telepaths. And there's 2 others on the team with tp ability. So yeah, they don't have the tp advantage, but "OMFG Onslotzzz! and DP" isn't really a credible argument for saying that. They don't need to "win" at tp...just block it.

the phoenix force is infinite- how exactly would the doctor or jenny "block" it? It's a primal force of the universe.



There are indeed different versions of onslaught, but the OP failed to define him, so I'm assuming all characters are at their most powerful points. and based solely on feats, Onslaught blinked a sun into existence from nothing at all, implying some fairly high end matter manipulation.

Whether or not you wish to ignore franklin's "celestial level" feats is up to you, but Onslaught does have his abilities and demonstrated it using the above feats. it's enough for me.



no, I was saying you're vastly underrating the marvel team and overrating the authority. at one point the watcher called the phoenix force "second only to the creator" which, though it's since been retconned, is still leauges above the power levels of the authority.

The phoenix force as an abstract has no limits at all to what it's capable of- even residue is sufficient to time travel thousands of years into the future.


Jean Grey at her full potential (White Phoenix) telekinetically controlled every atom in the entire universe and "rewound" them back 150 years worth...spacially controlling every single atom and moved it through 150 years worth of motion, state changes, chemical reactions, and whatever else occured during those 150 years. She can also exists outside of space/time, beyond conventional laws of physics and whatnot, and is directly linked to the nexus of realities.

I'd say that's fairly high up there in terms of feats.



ignoring the fact that Sinister and Nimrod would not be killed by any amount of concrete and metal attacking them, Phoenix and Onslaught are capable of fairly massive area attacks that would render most of the authority irrelevant.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Meh, it's never done anything quite that powerful...I really doubt it could have that kind of scope. If you paired it with Doctor's time travel abilities though, you might be able to make a case for universe-destroying, but that's obviously a bit of a loophole to "attack" the universe at a young state.

If it was set loose Angie implied it would simply write over the universe as it expanded. srug

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Carrier shouldn't be assumed unless the thread-starter specifies it, which he didn't.

Otherwise, yeah, you have a sentient baby universe with world destroying capabilities and the ability to phase in and out of various dimensions at will.

But you can't just insert it to give the Authority the win.



It really depends on what your opinion is of DP. Hell, Magneto gave her a brain seizure once....so it's not like she's omnipotent.

hence the fact that I asked... my post begins with "if the carrier is allowed."

I was attempting to reason out a way for the Authority to win if they were not allowed the Carrier. I asked the question a while back, but it has yet to be answered.

I apologize if I sound like I'm not paying attention.

Mummy, If you think Dark Pheonix in this match is an abstract level entity, then there was never really a reason to start the debate in the first place.

I won't pretend to be able to counter that...I already admitted the Authority would lose, and I also hate the abstract nonsense in any comic universe. But I do know that there's a huge difference between the Pheonix Force itself and its avatars...which have been brought down before by regular comic characters (like the Magneto feat I referenced earlier).

So if I'm fighting the Abstract entity, then woot...I'll just go ahead and close this. Otherwise, it might actually be a decent fight.

Originally posted by tjcoady
hence the fact that I asked... my post begins with "if the carrier is allowed."

I was attempting to reason out a way for the Authority to win if they were not allowed the Carrier. I asked the question a while back, but it has yet to be answered.

I apologize if I sound like I'm not paying attention.

No worries...it's just an aspect of thread protocol that I thought might need clarifying. I hadn't seen the earlier post. Your assessment of the battle with the Carrier was good though.



Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If it was set loose Angie implied it would simply write over the universe as it expanded. srug

Hmm. Possibly. Though a dimension hop via Onslaught might avoid it.

"Dark Phoenix" is technically Jean Grey during the Dark Phoenix Saga circa 80s the one who was controlled by Mastermind and taken down by Xavier...

one other thing, though...

the Authority has had exactly one fight where they couldn't use the Carrier, which was the battle against Bendix right before Morisson took over the title. so yea, I could understand why the Carrier is not included in a fight... but to me it seems like standard equipment, even if it is sentient, or semi-sentient.

Originally posted by tjcoady
one other thing, though...

the Authority has had exactly one fight where they couldn't use the Carrier, which was the battle against Bendix right before Morisson took over the title. so yea, I could understand why the Carrier is not included in a fight... but to me it seems like standard equipment, even if it is sentient, or semi-sentient.

It's a member of the team them

Bumping this.