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I read this and went..."ummm....ok?" So much for the Pope being a respetcted mediator and global symbol.

The question is...why the backtrack?

All hail the Pope, the Catholic church is the only way into heaven.

Originally posted by Boris
All hail the Pope, the Catholic church is the only way into heaven.

That's not what the document says. It specifically mentions the fact that many elements of "truth and sanctification" exist in other churches. It's not demonizing anybody. What's so shocking about the Catholic Church issuing a statement of belief that it is the full and complete expression of Christ's revelation through scripture and tradition? Doesn't any church, by definition, believe the same thing about itself? I personally feel like this statement is pretty tame.

But there is a difference between belief and publicizing it like this. Under Vatican II the RC Church tried to bridge the gaps between themselves and other Christian demonimations, especially under JPII.

It seems that policy will change.

while it may seem like a statement of the obvious, the message from the Vatican is certainly not one of Christian unity, and given there are places in the world where even the protestant/catholic split is still an open sore, this cannot be helpful.

speaking of sores...the language in the document is also just poisionous...calling other churches wounded.

Thats npt a statement of disagrement...thats a statement of division.

or that the title "church" shouldn't be applied to other Christian denominations

Its a clear division, I don't understand the motivations for this, considering it could have some major consequences...

I can't wait for him to die.

he seemed ok at first

I remember on of his first proclemations being something akin to "don't worry about science, it isn't a threat to your religion"

which, i dont know, seems better than "Evolution is a tool of the devil"

no, actually, he reversed Vatican Policy on evolution. JPII made it clear that evolution was "more than a hypothesis"

(Speaking of rabidity...Dawkins slammed that opinion and harassed the Pope for not basically abolishing God's role (hes' the effing POPE you arse) in evolution and accused him of meddeling in science.)

Ratzinger, on the other hand...supports ID and sacked the Chief Vatican Astronomer (of 28 years) for stating that ID was not scientific theory.

WOW!!!

Looks like I don't know what I'm talking about

And ya, good old Dawkins, "what, you mean you support what I am saying and are willing to peacefully co-exist with science and religion as seperate non-overlapping entities? Unacceptable! You must accept the version of the universe that I accept"

Well statements like this will certainly bring the churches in the world closer together. Lucky for him though that the most organized church is still that Catholic church and most other churches can't a release a statement that is even close in impact to this one. So I would assume that the effects are rather minimal, although some church leaders of minor churches would certainly feel attacked by it.

Originally posted by Alliance
I can't wait for him to die.

How come? He'll just be replaced by a new one.

Originally posted by Alliance
But there is a difference between belief and publicizing it like this. Under Vatican II the RC Church tried to bridge the gaps between themselves and other Christian demonimations, especially under JPII.

It seems that policy will change.

OK. Point taken. However, ecumenicalism cuts both ways. The Catholic Church shouldn't be the only institution made to reach out and "adapt" while the others can just sit pat. Most other Christian denominations (especially the Evangelical wings) are openly hostile to the Catholic Church. Some even preach that Catholics are damned by virtue of their beliefs. So, I think that this statement is pretty tame considering...
Furthermore, one of the chief things that separates the Catholic Church from other denominations is this very issue of apostolic succession and papal authority. By issuing this statement, the Church is doing nothing but publicly clarifying its own self-understanding. How can there be honest dialogue if the Church isn't honest about its own self-image?

Originally posted by Alliance
I can't wait for him to die.

The Catholic Church will cease tc be relevant the exact second it "adapts" itself to the political correctness du jour.

I think this is a rather unwise.

Didn't the great Schism happen, because East refused to accept Pope? Either way...

Europe is very much Post-Christian, and other denominations have greatly reformed.
It is unclear to me why unification under the Catholic umbrella...

Originally posted by Boris
How come? He'll just be replaced by a new one.
ok Mr. Dawkins...here's a concept called "variation"...and essential component of evolution.

Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
OK. Point taken. However, ecumenicalism cuts both ways. The Catholic Church shouldn't be the only institution made to reach out and "adapt" while the others can just sit pat. Most other Christian denominations (especially the Evangelical wings) are openly hostile to the Catholic Church. Some even preach that Catholics are damned by virtue of their beliefs. So, I think that this statement is pretty tame considering...

Furthermore, one of the chief things that separates the Catholic Church from other denominations is this very issue of apostolic succession and papal authority. By issuing this statement, the Church is doing nothing but publicly clarifying its own self-understanding. How can there be honest dialogue if the Church isn't honest about its own self-image? The thing is that other churches aren't as centralized as the Vatican, the minister of the church down the block saying "Catholics are ______ because they have a pope" would not have any real impact ont eh global religious climate.

I don't think of any other religious leader in the world who has as much pull as the Pope. JPII proved that in modern times, the Pope is a spiritual and a political leader. BenedictXVI is certainly failing at that second aspect. Thats a backtrack imo.

Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
The Catholic Church will cease tc be relevant the exact second it "adapts" itself to the political correctness du jour.
Then why did it "strenghten" under the Popes who adapted it?

I like how the Pope is biblically supported...

Oh, wait.

SNAP

Very little in Christianity is Biblically supported.

Originally posted by Alliance
Then why did it "strenghten" under the Popes who adapted it?

The non-specificity of this statement makes it difficult to respond. However, I will say that all change - with respect to institutions - is not alike in either kind, degree, or intrinsic motivation. Surely, the Church has responded and must respond to what is most prevalent in the culture at large at any given time. It must even ocassionaly reprioritize various facets of its teaching to meet current needs. But it cannot change the core of its own self-undertanding, without ceasing to be what it claims to be.

I assume your Mr. Dawkins crack is an allusion to Christopher Dawkins, the Catholic historian? I invite this comparison with gusto!

Lets not forget Bene did change the "Filique" cause in effort to bring the Eastern Orthodox Church and the RC Churchs closer together.

But whats this about him being a mediator? How far is he expected to "mediate" surely as the head of his Church he is expected to put it above everything else?

Example, would you expect Bill Gates to stick up for Google and Apple? Surely he will promote his Windows before the prodcts of others.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Lets not forget Bene did change the "Filique" cause in effort to bring the Eastern Orthodox Church and the RC Churchs closer together.

But whats this about him being a mediator? How far is he expected to "mediate" surely as the head of his Church he is expected to put it above everything else?

Example, would you expect Bill Gates to stick up for Google and Apple? Surely he will promote his Windows before the prodcts of others.



Nice analogy!

Originally posted by Boris
All hail the Pope, the Catholic church is the only way into heaven.

Amen, brother.

All the Pope said was that the full understanding of Jesus Christ and the road to salvation is to be found within Catholicism. Anyone who is baptized is still a Christian and non-Christians are also loved by God. Neither of these groups are, contrary to what some pundits yelled, condemned to hell.

What, one wonders, did people expect the Pope to say? "Well, Catholicism is quite fun but then so is Islam. I also hear that Hindus have great parties and as for Zoroastrianism, it's really cool, man."

Originally posted by Alliance
Very little in Christianity is Biblically supported.
Whatever you say, Shakya.

(Zing.)

Attaboy Ratzinger! Divide and be conquered.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Whatever you say, Shakya.

(Zing.)

Hay! I did not deserve that.

*Zing*

I see

Originally posted by FeceMan
I like how the Pope is biblically supported...

Oh, wait.

SNAP

He is.

It is pretty clear that people criticizing the pope, have not read carefully his statatement.

And yes catholic church, as any other church, claims to be the only one in which all the elements of the original christian community are present up-to-date. But certainly is the only with 2,000 year os documented history to back it up..

Originally posted by darkfan76
It is pretty clear that people criticizing the pope, have not read carefully his statatement.

And yes catholic church, as any other church, claims to be the only one in which all the elements of the original christian community are present up-to-date. But certainly is the only with 2,000 year os documented history to back it up..

The Roman Catholic Church didn't begin until 1054 CE. Besides, a lot religions are thousands of year older.

Originally posted by Alliance
The Roman Catholic Church didn't begin until 1054 CE. Besides, a lot religions are thousands of year older.

Who told you that? Chick tracks? Any other anti-catholic source?

We are talking about Christianism. Of course there are older religions :lol

The Catholic Church started with Saint Peter.