God vs Satan II

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Marxman
Due to the immaturity in the last thread it was moved to the OTF. So hopefully after I make this new one we can have a real discussion on this.

ASSUME God and Satan are real. There is this unseen dimension parallel with our own. God's angels and Satan's demons are constantly "recruiting" for their army in a final battle. The only difference is that God has a better publicist. He's promised us all paradise at world's end after he has won this war. He's also said that Satan would bring nothing but destruction. He's also said that this thing is pretty much a wrap. He's got it in the bag. You just need to choose the right side.

But what if he doesn't? What if its actually still a toss up and in actuality the winning side is the one that will achieve paradise and the other is the one sent to eternal damnation?

Discuss (maturely if you don't mind).

C. C. Cowgirl
Clearly God smile

If we loose the war at least we fought for the good big grin

What matters is not how you fight but why angel

Xenogears
LMAO WTF?

And nice sig Cowgirl. 13jockey

C. C. Cowgirl
Thank you smile

Boris
Well if we actually lived in a world of demons, fairies, spaghetti monsters, God and the Devil....

God would win.

Marxman
Satan's got all the killers on his squad. All the liars and the cheaters. The nuclear experts and those who would do anything to win.

God's got suicide bombers.

Burning thought
Demons>Angels

the Devil would have all the monstrous killers and murderers of humanity on his side, wheras none of his saintly folk "could" fight lest they get corrupted through acts of wickedness, because even if your doing it for rightiousness your still stabbing someone/something

plus Devil has Demons ,far more terrible than Gods legions even if they can dodge the corruption, they still face some beastly beings, only diffrence is that while Angels are used to sitting around blissfully in heaven, the weather/hell beaten demons of the dark would be more than ready for any battle and more than prepared to go into the fray

then it comes down to God and Satan themselves, Satan has shown many times his power, wheras God only speaks of it, there are many accounts of Satan corrupting, Satan has done this, Satan has done that, Satan has messed up all Gods plans because he started the original sin, not to menstion God is pictured as either a bright light in the sky or in a humioid form, an elderly white haired man, or usually an elderly man in white robes wheras Satan is a monstrous, often tall musculer entity with horns and sometimes an attitude, either viscious or showing intellect and arrogence, regardless, old man<tall musculer horned entity

plus God cannot win, not without losing everything, simply because there is evil inside everyone, there are many types of wickedness even if it is by accident or you do not realise it, you could simply cause hate within others because of what your doing, even if what your doing is supposed to be for good, its still wickedness, so he would have to wipe out the human race as well if he would get rid of evil

inimalist
so, assuming its the 3o god the fight is already over

Marxman
Now, assuming Satan wins simply because he's evil is wrong. I mean, just because his army is more "savage" doesn't mean they're better. Those arch angels are serious. Think of like in King Arthur, when the barbarians fight the knights and the knights win.

Boris
Assuming they exist, there is no contest.

Symmetric Chaos
Satan would have just about every advantage except for the personal power possessed by the leader. And maybe numbers.

inimalist
that personal power being omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence

BIIIIIIIIIIIIID
God has infinite number of angels but his angels are not trained for combat, but they are trained to inspire humans or send messages to humans.

Satan is powerful but has limited number of demons that is fully trained to massacre any beings

lets assume satan's power can only allow him to create 300 demons.
Well God's endless horde of angels will eventually overpower the 300 demons.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by inimalist
that personal power being omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence

Yeah.

All that stuff.

The stuff that makes God impossible to beat.

I'd still side with Satan no expression

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by BIIIIIIIIIIIIID
God has infinite number of angels but his angels are not trained for combat, but they are trained to inspire humans or send messages to humans.

haermm What bible did you read?

Originally posted by BIIIIIIIIIIIIID
Satan is powerful but has limited number of demons that is fully trained to massacre any beings


I recall none of this outside Hollywood.

I do seem to remember God's kid owning dozens of demons with a few words though.

Originally posted by BIIIIIIIIIIIIID
lets assume satan's power can only allow him to create 300 demons.
Well God's endless horde of angels will eventually overpower the 300 demons.

Why would we assume that?

Emperor Ashtar
Satan, because he has more influence while Yahweh is a douche that kills his followers

Quark_666
Originally posted by Burning thought
Demons>Angels

the Devil would have all the monstrous killers and murderers of humanity on his side, wheras none of his saintly folk "could" fight lest they get corrupted through acts of wickedness, because even if your doing it for rightiousness your still stabbing someone/something

plus Devil has Demons ,far more terrible than Gods legions even if they can dodge the corruption, they still face some beastly beings, only diffrence is that while Angels are used to sitting around blissfully in heaven, the weather/hell beaten demons of the dark would be more than ready for any battle and more than prepared to go into the fray

then it comes down to God and Satan themselves, Satan has shown many times his power, wheras God only speaks of it, there are many accounts of Satan corrupting, Satan has done this, Satan has done that, Satan has messed up all Gods plans because he started the original sin, not to menstion God is pictured as either a bright light in the sky or in a humioid form, an elderly white haired man, or usually an elderly man in white robes wheras Satan is a monstrous, often tall musculer entity with horns and sometimes an attitude, either viscious or showing intellect and arrogence, regardless, old man<tall musculer horned entity

plus God cannot win, not without losing everything, simply because there is evil inside everyone, there are many types of wickedness even if it is by accident or you do not realise it, you could simply cause hate within others because of what your doing, even if what your doing is supposed to be for good, its still wickedness, so he would have to wipe out the human race as well if he would get rid of evil

So why do good people still exist?

Goddess Kali
Originally posted by Marxman
Due to the immaturity in the last thread it was moved to the OTF. So hopefully after I make this new one we can have a real discussion on this.

ASSUME God and Satan are real. There is this unseen dimension parallel with our own. God's angels and Satan's demons are constantly "recruiting" for their army in a final battle. The only difference is that God has a better publicist. He's promised us all paradise at world's end after he has won this war. He's also said that Satan would bring nothing but destruction. He's also said that this thing is pretty much a wrap. He's got it in the bag. You just need to choose the right side.

But what if he doesn't? What if its actually still a toss up and in actuality the winning side is the one that will achieve paradise and the other is the one sent to eternal damnation?

Discuss (maturely if you don't mind).



This is SO Spawn roll eyes (sarcastic)

The Grey Fox
Yeh I know

Bicnarok

The Grey Fox
Remember, God wouldn't fight himself, it's technically 'Satan VS Jesus', and Jesus would be crushed badly.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Quark_666
So why do good people still exist?

just because theres one rose in a garden of weeds doesnt mean the rose would not be strangled, for every one good person i assure you theres at least 10/100 bad people, even if what they are doing is supposedly good.

and why would there be infinite Angels, i would say there would be far more demons, there are more types of demon than there are types of angel as far as i know wheras with angels theres only the Seraphim and the Arch Angels, and Arch angels are not so numerous.

also the argument about Arthur VS barbarians is completly diffrent due to first Arthur did not win just because he is a good man, but because his knights are more intelligent, better trained and such wheras in this fight there is nothing to suggest Demons are any less intelligent and most sources could point to them being better prepared and trained

also just because the bible says so much about Gods power, the bible is supposed to be Gods word or a book that speaks of him, there is little proof other than propaganda of gods power wheras the Devil who is supposed to influence all wicked acts has show first hand he has corrupted the entire human race and pushed us into War, destruction and greed. There is no proof as such that God has actually done anything, even if you belive he created the universe and everything that excists still doesnt show much of his destructive power, in the story of Moses and him saving his people, Gods 7 plagues he smites the Egyptions with are not exactley terrific, even the last one

The Grey Fox
What?

Marxman
Originally posted by Burning thought
also the argument about Arthur VS barbarians is completly diffrent due to first Arthur did not win just because he is a good man, but because his knights are more intelligent, better trained and such wheras in this fight there is nothing to suggest Demons are any less intelligent and most sources could point to them being better prepared and trained My point there was only that the arch angels would be that much better than any demon. The arch angels were serious. In the story where Satan and his followers were casted out of heaven, Michael handled business. The arch angels are known to be elite soldiers in the army of God, wearing his armor and wielding his sword and shield. I think they would be able to whoop any demons ass, no matter how bad ass they think they are.
Originally posted by Burning thought
in the story of Moses and him saving his people, Gods 7 plagues he smites the Egyptions with are not exactley terrific, even the last one Making it rain fire is pretty bad ass.

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by The Grey Fox
Remember, God wouldn't fight himself, it's technically 'Satan VS Jesus', and Jesus would be crushed badly.

No he wouldn't according to the Bible Jesus defeated the Devil, besides Jesus is God...he would beat the devil hands down.

The Grey Fox
No way Jesus is balljuice and spreaded the evil word of evil god. he sucks real-bad.

Grand_Moff_Gav
...ok

The Grey Fox
NO NOT OK HE'S EVIL REPENT ZEALOT

Grand_Moff_Gav
You are very odd...

Spliffman
yeah dude what the hell man

u need a spliff man

Grand_Moff_Gav
The last thing this religion forum needs is a spliff man

The Grey Fox
lol, what a random loser...

anyway, Jesus is not God cause God don't exist, solved in a pie

Spliffman
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
The last thing this religion forum needs is a spliff man

what the hell dude im tryin to like defend you n all that spliffs

dude just take a spliff and chill with god

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by Spliffman
what the hell dude im tryin to like defend you n all that spliffs

dude just take a spliff and chill with god

hmm why not.

The Grey Fox
Yeah. I hate yis ya? Anyway, God aint real.

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by The Grey Fox
Yeah. I hate yis ya? Anyway, God aint real.

Your lying.

This debating tactic is sponsored by Ush

The Grey Fox
No I'm not I'm showing an opinion.

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by The Grey Fox
No I'm not I'm showing an opinion.
Thats also a lie.
This debating tactic is sponsored by Ush

The Grey Fox
SO IS THAT...

FOOL

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by The Grey Fox
SO IS THAT...

FOOL
Liar
This debating tactic is sponsored by Ush

The Grey Fox
Stop lying

Grand_Moff_Gav
Im guessing you never saw Ush's explanation of how this works?

The Grey Fox
Uh, no, but you are lying about that as well.

Grand_Moff_Gav
I cant be the liar...you made all the original statements which I called lies...by Ush's law this makes me right untill you prove you didnt lie.

The Grey Fox
NEITHER CAN YOU...

Grand_Moff_Gav
By Ush's law i dont have to prove anything.

The Grey Fox
But by my law you do, so there

Grand_Moff_Gav
Are you anyone of importance though...no...

The Grey Fox
Ah but yes I am... to me!

HA I GOT YA THERE

Grand_Moff_Gav
But if your important to you...but your not important...then you are only important to unimportant people...which means...your not important...

The Grey Fox
C'mon, don't bullshit me

Burning thought
this is getting off topic and out of hand, hes entitled to his opinion and the importance of people is dependant on one persons thoughts on the matter, for example the president of the states is "important" apparently but to me, he may as well be a piece of crap....he means nothing

BlaxicanHydra
The Bible has already said that the Angel's and Jesus are superior to the Demon's and Satan in combat. So, God wins this pretty easily. Plus, Satan only has power because God lets him have it. Remember the story of Job were Satan had to literally ask God to let him torture Job?

Burning thought
that holds no weight or evidence in this battle, the bible is supposed to be Gods book, he wouldnt put in it that anything of his is weaker than satans would he, most knowledge of God and his forces are from the bible but none of it has any weight, if America were going to write a book on their forces and Europe wrote one on theirs to compare them, neither are likely to have anything at all stating weakneses, they would simply be listing amounts of atomic bombs, maybe even exaggerations and the fire power of their weaponry

ime quite sure if the Devil had his own book it would say "the devil could easily defeat jesus and angels single handed and then follow on to do the same to God"

taking also into account that it was all written by human beings who fear as well as worship him, their not going to write anythng bad about him and good for something thats plagueing them

BlaxicanHydra
Right.. except this was book was also written by the guy who... oh.. I don't know... created and alterd everything and anything. He's God, after all. He's the creator, and anything he makes he can unmake.

inimalist
Originally posted by Burning thought
that holds no weight or evidence in this battle, the bible is supposed to be Gods book, he wouldnt put in it that anything of his is weaker than satans would he, most knowledge of God and his forces are from the bible but none of it has any weight, if America were going to write a book on their forces and Europe wrote one on theirs to compare them, neither are likely to have anything at all stating weakneses, they would simply be listing amounts of atomic bombs, maybe even exaggerations and the fire power of their weaponry

ime quite sure if the Devil had his own book it would say "the devil could easily defeat jesus and angels single handed and then follow on to do the same to God"

taking also into account that it was all written by human beings who fear as well as worship him, their not going to write anythng bad about him and good for something thats plagueing them

Oh, so its God vs Satan, but not THAT God vs THAT Satan, we get to make up new ones based on how we think they should be made.

Well, in that case GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS v168495 from the year 7764875 wins.

The Grey Fox
But maybe Satan doesn't want a book, maybe he doesn't want to push everyone around to see his side of things. If God wanted everyone to be Christian, surely he could have done so...

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Right.. except this was book was also written by the guy who... oh.. I don't know... created and alterd everything and anything. He's God, after all. He's the creator, and anything he makes he can unmake. Well the book wasn't written by him, but by man who as stated feared him. Depending on who you talk to the requirements to get into Heaven are very strict so if you look at sheer number of followers Hell has got Heaven out numbered like 1000 to 1 which could easily take down stronger fighters. wink

The Grey Fox
Exactly. God is so angry about every little Sin, then there will be swarms of Sinners VS God, Jesus and JIA.

Dr. Zaius
Originally posted by Burning thought
Demons>Angels plus Devil has Demons ,far more terrible than Gods legions even if they can dodge the corruption, they still face some beastly beings, only diffrence is that while Angels are used to sitting around blissfully in heaven, the weather/hell beaten demons of the dark would be more than ready for any battle and more than prepared to go into the fray

Just so you know, biblical angels are fearsome beings (see the descriptions in Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Revelation, etc...), not the cute, pudgy winged babies that adorn Hallmark cards on Valentine's Day.

Originally posted by Burning thought


This is so stupid, I assume you're joking. Biblical discriptions of God do not corroborate your pop-culture cartoon. Again, see Ezekiel, Exodus, Genesis, Daniel, Job, and Revelation, in which God manifests himself, among other things, as the spirit hovering over the void of chaos before the world was formed, a voice from the whirlwind, a pillar of fire, a brilliant, ineffable glory surrounded by covering Seraphim. Since Lucifer is traditionally reckoned to be a fallen Seraph, and since God is generally surrounded by a handful of them at all times, I assume this means that before he even got to God, Satan would have to fight his way through the divine body guard, which would already consist of several beings of similar power to himself.


plus God cannot win, not without losing everything, simply because there is evil inside everyone, there are many types of wickedness even if it is by accident or you do not realise it, you could simply cause hate within others because of what your doing, even if what your doing is supposed to be for good, its still wickedness, so he would have to wipe out the human race as well if he would get rid of evil

Well actually, Satan faces a worse ontological/moral dilemma (I'll borrow from Augustine here). Since all things were created good, that means that all being is good by virtue of its existence. Being > Non-being. Unless you're a Manichean, evil has no independent existence, but rather, always merely exists as a perversion of the good (or rather, the choice of a lesser good over a greater one). Satan can only corrupt, he can't create. Therefore, Satan's position is far more tenuous. He is utterly dependent on an intrinsically good creation to corrupt for his purposes. This is why evil is so insistent, so agressive. It resents the good that it cannot escape but which it wishes to deny. So it sets itself off in a perpetual fury to allay its own secret fear that it is an actual nullity.

PITT_HAPPENS

inimalist
Originally posted by Dr. Zaius

Well actually, Satan faces a worse ontological/moral dilemma (I'll borrow from Augustine here). Since all things were created good, that means that all being is good by virtue of its existence. Being > Non-being. Unless you're a Manichean, evil has no independent existence, but rather, always merely exists as a perversion of the good (or rather, the choice of a lesser good over a greater one). Satan can only corrupt, he can't create. Therefore, Satan's position is far more tenuous. He is utterly dependent on an intrinsically good creation to corrupt for his purposes. This is why evil is so insistent, so agressive. It resents the good that it cannot escape but which it wishes to deny. So it sets itself off in a perpetual fury to allay its own secret fear that it is an actual nullity.

That was the sound of my mind being blown!

Dr. Zaius
Originally posted by The Grey Fox
Exactly. God is so angry about every little Sin, then there will be swarms of Sinners VS God, Jesus and JIA.

Holy shit, that's funny!

laughing

Symmetric Chaos

Shakyamunison

Dr. Zaius

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
I believe this is a Kabbalistic belief. The name of God in this case is the Tetragrammaton - the four letter transliteration of a Hebrew vocalization that in English amounts to something like YHWH (Yahweh). Out of reverence, the ancient Hebrews never uttered this name out loud. To this day, there is an ongoing scholarly debate about what God's name actually means in Hebrew. A propos to the Kabbalistic myth, God created the world by speaking his own name out loud. However, Kabbalists believe that the Tetragrammaton is only an approximation of the divine name. If one were to discover and pronounce the actual ineffable name itself - the self-speaking Word of creation - than the world would be unmade.

However, it is good to know that they don't base it on anything.

Burning thought
regardless, neither of them would win this war, even if God obliterated everything into nothingness, there would still be the most vengeful, wikid and wrathful entity ever to excist left....himself

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by Burning thought
regardless, neither of them would win this war, even if God obliterated everything into nothingness, there would still be the most vengeful, wikid and wrathful entity ever to excist left....himself

But God would be the only one left...Satan would be dead...so God would win...

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
But God would be the only one left...Satan would be dead...so God would win...

How can an immortal like Satan die? confused

Grand_Moff_Gav
That isnt part of the debate, all we know is in Burning thought's scenaro God got rid of everything else, how he did it I don't know.

But, to answer your question anyway, Satan isn't immortal.

Burning thought
but dont you see, Satan would of succeeded, he would not need to excist any more, God has taken his place, God would of been forced to destroy creation and everything to pureify properly and when there is nothing left he will realise Satan has actually won, he has made God into the wickedness, not only has he from the beginning corrupted humanity he has now succeded in corrupting God himself and made him murder his own creations

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
That isnt part of the debate, all we know is in Burning thought's scenaro God got rid of everything else, how he did it I don't know.

But, to answer your question anyway, Satan isn't immortal.

I thought all angels were immortal. confused

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by Burning thought
but dont you see, Satan would of succeeded, he would not need to excist any more, God has taken his place, God would of been forced to destroy creation and everything to pureify properly and when there is nothing left he will realise Satan has actually won, he has made God into the wickedness, not only has he from the beginning corrupted humanity he has now succeded in corrupting God himself and made him murder his own creations

God could just click his metophorical fingers and Satan would disapeer...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I thought all angels were immortal. confused

According to the Bible Angels last forever, or rather as long as God wants them too. Satan is a difference case however as we know he wont live for ever but will die. See Book of Revelation. So Satan will have a long lifespan, but wont live for ever.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I thought all angels were immortal. confused

i dont think Satan can be destroyed, not even by God, he has become an essence of evil itself, not until all evil is completly cleared, which is impossible since as i said, God as pure as he would like to think he is, after destroying all creation has still murdered these people and apparently in religion hes the one who throws people into fiery pits so its he who will still be evil, so Satan will still excist through his embodiment of the evil force

Grand_Moff_Gav
Your basing that on...
?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Burning thought
i dont think Satan can be destroyed, not even by God, he has become an essence of evil itself, not until all evil is completly cleared, which is impossible since as i said, God as pure as he would like to think he is, after destroying all creation has still murdered these people and apparently in religion hes the one who throws people into fiery pits so its he who will still be evil, so Satan will still excist through his embodiment of the evil force

That is one of the problems with Christian mythology.

I hope you do realize that Satan doesn't really exist in the true nature of reality.

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is one of the problems with Christian mythology.

What, that people just decide to change certain aspects of it to suit themselvse?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
What, that people just decide to change certain aspects of it to suit themselvse?

No, when ever you think about spiritual matters in a nonspiritual way, everything just gets silly.

Burning thought
well in truth none of it excists, its a load of rubbish

but if Satan excisted, he has rooted himself through almost all things

his corruption is shown in many books and chapters of the bible, but since i dont belive in any of it i havnt read and memorised every page so ime afraid i cannot state which

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Burning thought
well in truth none of it excists, its a load of rubbish

but if Satan excisted, he has rooted himself through almost all things

his corruption is shown in many books and chapters of the bible, but since i dont belive in any of it i havnt read and memorised every page so ime afraid i cannot state which

If you don't believe in something, then why do you believe in something.

Dr. Zaius
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
However, it is good to know that they don't base it on anything.

Well I'm a Catholic not a Kabbalist so I couldn't tell you exactly what they base this belief on. I would suspect it's at least partially based on theological speculations about God's nature. (Far be it from me to pooh pooh that). But in regard to this discussion, I think the interesting thing is the notion that God has a name. As I mentioned earlier, the Tetragrammaton YHWH is the name God gives Moses to signify himself to the captive Jews in Egypt. It is not necessarily God's name for himself. Does God have such a name? If so, it would express his own self-understanding. What's more, it would not be something accidental to his being. Human names sometimes signify the individual's personality, sometimes not. In all cases they are given to us. And even when we do rename ourselves in adulthood to express a transformed consciousness, the name, no matter how aptly it signifies us, remains inessential. We could as likely find another just as suitable. "A rose by any other name." Human words are merely signifiers. There is always something else to which these words point.

But what if God's own name is not accidental, not merely a signifier of origin, character, social function, etc...but a spontaneous expression of his uncaused existence? And the expression not merely a signifier, but so perfect that it partakes of the very thing itself? What kind of expression could be equal to this? In Genesis, God speaks creation into being. Are these words as we understand them? Or rather one all encompassing, eternally self-speaking Word to which our own words are poor echoes? Perhaps the Kabbalists are right in this matter - God's "speach" in Genesis is God speaking "his name" out loud...is God communicating his Being into that which hitherto was without being. Is God speaking his name out loud the sound of the universe coming into existence?

Burning thought
because ime thinking of it as if it were a book, i like the characters God and Satan and am interested in their law and have my views if they did happen to excist, but personally i dont actually belive in them, their stories are still a little far fetched regardless on the number of belivers in it all

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Burning thought
because ime thinking of it as if it were a book, i like the characters God and Satan and am interested in their law and have my views if they did happen to excist, but personally i dont actually belive in them, their stories are still a little far fetched regardless on the number of belivers in it all

Ok, it is like talking about a super hero fighting a super villain.

2D_MASTER
If God and Satan are real.... well God would probably win. God has alreadly kicked Satans ass when he threw him out of heaven. So why wouldn't God now?

Rogue Jedi
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
If God and Satan are real.... well God would probably win. God has alreadly kicked Satans ass when he threw him out of heaven. So why wouldn't God now?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
If God and Satan are real.... well God would probably win. God has alreadly kicked Satans ass when he threw him out of heaven. So why wouldn't God now?

Then why is it taking so long? Maybe god got more beat up then he will admit too. laughing out loud

Burning thought
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Ok, it is like talking about a super hero fighting a super villain.


not really, because super heroes and super villians usually have accurate and descriptive weaknesses that you can use in the debate wheras God and the Devil is depending on how you look on it

if you look on it from the bible "god can throw the devil into the fiery pit and has infinite power" kind of thing, then God could easily win if he were truly that able

wheras if you look at it from the point of view of how the world is today then you could quite easily say the Devil is winning, since there are wars and all kinds of wicked acts in the world and if God were truly all powerful its debatable wether he could/would stop such torment or wether or not he is really so benevolent

there are very few facts if any at all on God and the Devil wheras a Super hero/villain have facts

Burning thought
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why is it taking so long? Maybe god got more beat up then he will admit too. laughing out loud

i agree to this, if God actually battled the Devil already and threw him out, maybe he was badly damaged himself and so could actually destroy the Devil

also its debatable now that since the Devil supposedly had seeded his wickedness throughout the world and actually gained some mortal followers/worshipers as well as supposedly caused so much suffering, he may have gained even more power and is able to beat god himself

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by Burning thought
not really, because super heroes and super villians usually have accurate and descriptive weaknesses that you can use in the debate wheras God and the Devil is depending on how you look on it

if you look on it from the bible "god can throw the devil into the fiery pit and has infinite power" kind of thing, then God could easily win if he were truly that able

wheras if you look at it from the point of view of how the world is today then you could quite easily say the Devil is winning, since there are wars and all kinds of wicked acts in the world and if God were truly all powerful its debatable wether he could/would stop such torment or wether or not he is really so benevolent

there are very few facts if any at all on God and the Devil wheras a Super hero/villain have facts God is Stan Lee and no one can beat him stick out tongue

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why is it taking so long? Maybe god got more beat up then he will admit too. laughing out loud

Or maybe he is too busy eating Sandwiches. Besides, what seems like a "long time" to us, would be a instant for God, since he is eternal. To him, he JUST kicked Satans ass, and probably just wants to eat another sandwich before he b.itch slaps Satan again.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Or maybe he is too busy eating Sanwiches. Besides, what seems like a "long time" to us, would be a instant for God, since he is eternal. To him, he JUST kicked Satans ass, and probably just wants to eat another sandwich before he b.itch slaps Satan again.

Maybe the fight is not over. Maybe we are just in between punches.

PITT_HAPPENS

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Maybe the fight is not over. Maybe we are just in between punches.

Well either way, God DID throw Satan out of heaven and sent Jesus to kick demon ass in hell (stole the keys to hell). So I guess God is kicking Satans ass at the moment.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Well either way, God DID throw Satan out of heaven and sent Jesus to kick demon ass in hell (stole the keys to hell). So I guess God is kicking Satans ass at the moment.

But in then Satan is going to have a second wind. laughing out loud

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Well either way, God DID throw Satan out of heaven and sent Jesus to kick demon ass in hell (stole the keys to hell). So I guess God is kicking Satans ass at the moment. But Satan is the ultimate deceiver and is just leading God into a false sense of security. evil face

Burning thought
Satans just gonna allow God his feeling of infinite power for the time being and then while God is larking about sending jesus and saving the hebrews in the future Satan is getting America to Nuke Japan and design weapons of terror and spreading the thoughts of murder and rape, and in the not so distant of our future a nuclear war, then hell smack God on his ass

2D_MASTER
Bwhahahah God owns hell (Satan's pad) now (thanks to his pride and joy, Jesus). The devil is getting his ass kicked all over the place, he doesn't even own a house. The devil even tried to bribe God's number one heavy-hitter, Jesus, and Jesus knew what a pussy he was, so he told Satan to fu.ck-off.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Bwhahahah God owns hell (Satan's pad) now (thanks to his pride and joy, Jesus). The devil is getting his ass kicked all over the place, he doesn't even own a house. The devil even tried to bribe God's number one heavy-hitter, Jesus, and Jesus knew what a pussy he was, so he told Satan to fu.ck-off.

So, the fight is Satan against god and Jesus. Two against one, not a really fair fight.

Burning thought
muhaha jesus is being tortured in hell and God is drained of almost all power as humans such as medians and crystal ball scryers use whats left of his power to work out where people have left their keys

Satan has his feet up as he sends America and Iraq into war and causes all types of mischiefs

let Satan have Asmodeus

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, the fight is Satan against god and Jesus. Two against one, not a really fair fight.

No Satan has the anti-christ, the false prophet, not to mention the kick-ass beast oh yeah he has his own whore (the whore of babylon). Satan has a crew too.

Burning thought
Anti-chrsit=dead christ, so that leaves God vs Satan, Anti christ and all the denizens of hell....Angels are wussies playing harp music for the battle

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Burning thought
muhaha jesus is being tortured in hell and God is drained of almost all power as humans such as medians and crystal ball scryers use whats left of his power to work out where people have left their keys

Satan has his feet up as he sends America and Iraq into war and causes all types of mischiefs

let Satan have Asmodeus

Bwhahahaha, yeah even IF god was in that situation, God just needs another sandwich (Jesus would gladly make it for him) then God would go Popeye on Satan and kick his nuts into his stomach.

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Burning thought
Anti-chrsit=dead christ, so that leaves God vs Satan, Anti christ and all the denizens of hell....Angels are wussies playing harp music for the battle

Anti-christ= Oprah. Jesus would beat the shit out of Oprah, everybody knows that.

Burning thought
no no no, mistaken indeed...Chuck norris is the Anti christ!!

Chuck norris>God and Jesus


(now can we keep this thread more serious pleaassee laughing out loud )

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Burning thought
no no no, mistaken indeed...Chuck norris is the Anti christ!!

Chuck norris>God and Jesus


(now can we keep this thread more serious pleaassee laughing out loud )


...... I wish the "chuck norris" thing would die already.....

Burning thought
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
...... I wish the "chuck norris" thing would die already.....


tbh i dont even know how it all started, i just used it cuz so many people do

inimalist
So really, by God and Satan you don't mean the actual mythological God and Satan, but the ones that are in your mind created by you?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
So really, by God and Satan you don't mean the actual mythological God and Satan, but the ones that are in your mind created by you?

What is the difference?

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by inimalist
So really, by God and Satan you don't mean the actual mythological God and Satan, but the ones that are in your mind created by you?

Who are you talking to? I've been pretty consistent with the mythos, of course I did throw in the sandwich and Oprah thing.

inimalist
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What is the difference?

there was this book written a long time ago....

I think, THINK that God guy is mentioned in there

lol. I guess it doesn't, but again, then GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS wins, because he is from the future.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Who are you talking to? I've been pretty consistent with the mythos, of course I did throw in the sandwich and Oprah thing.

lol, my bad, it was to Burning Thought

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
there was this book written a long time ago....

I think, THINK that God guy is mentioned in there

lol. I guess it doesn't, but again, then GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS wins, because he is from the future.



lol, my bad, it was to Burning Thought

It sure is boring when JIA is not here. laughing

inimalist
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It sure is boring when JIA is not here. laughing

laughing laughing laughing

Its such a love/hate thing...

/sigh

I think the best part about JIA is the blue text

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
laughing laughing laughing

Its such a love/hate thing...

/sigh

I think the best part about JIA is the blue text

I'm too lazy to color my text. laughing

inimalist
But damn, its HAWT

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by inimalist
But damn, its HAWT And you can't read it ether.

inimalist
muhahahaha

damn, wont go any lighter grey

Burning thought
Originally posted by inimalist
there was this book written a long time ago....

I think, THINK that God guy is mentioned in there

lol. I guess it doesn't, but again, then GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS wins, because he is from the future.



lol, my bad, it was to Burning Thought

GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS may very well win if you give it more power than the guys who made up God in the bible thousands of years ago gave him

inimalist
Originally posted by Burning thought
GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS may very well win if you give it more power than the guys who made up God in the bible thousands of years ago gave him

Yes, that is the point exactly

Burning thought
but GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS is ime afraid offtopic

this topic is about God and Satan, who although probably are more odd and more outrageous than a GODZILLAANDROIDOCTOPUS are still the topic

and Satan would easily win

BlaxicanHydra
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How can an immortal like Satan die? confused

Satan isn't immortal. And people are not seeing the obvious.

God snaps his fingers, and Satan dissapears. Simple as. Nothing else happens. That's it. God wins. There is nothing that Satan can do.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Satan isn't immortal. And people are not seeing the obvious.

God snaps his fingers, and Satan dissapears. Simple as. Nothing else happens. That's it. God wins. There is nothing that Satan can do.

Boring.

BlaxicanHydra
Yeah, it would be very boring. Actually, us Humans probably wouldn't even know it was happening.

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Satan isn't immortal. And people are not seeing the obvious.

God snaps his fingers, and Satan dissapears. Simple as. Nothing else happens. That's it. God wins. There is nothing that Satan can do. Then God is keeping him around for what? wink

BlaxicanHydra
I would provide a several paragraph long excuse for why I personally believe that Satan is still around. But I'm playing Ghost Recon online. Raincheck.

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Then God is keeping him around for what? wink

Because he still has a jobn to do.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Because he still has a jobn to do.

So, Satan is doing god's work?

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, Satan is doing god's work? Guess so confused

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Guess so confused

I think we are being tag teamed.

2D_MASTER
If Jesus can kick all of the Roman-Greco Gods asses at once, he can take satan, even without God.

Grand_Moff_Gav
Not quite, its a difficult piece of doctrine that I myself am not totally up to scratch on but what I do know is alot of people give Satan too much credit.

He is no match for God, there is never any inclination that he might be in the Book of Job or during the Temptation of Christ he cannot actually go up against God. This is never claimed.

However, he can hurt God, through man, by lying to man and twisting the nature of the world Satan can cause man to turn from God and thus hurt God, not physically but emotionally.

However, Satan is no match for man either, "Resist the Devil and he will flee from you" says St. Paul. However, not everyone resists him, some even embrace him. It would seem that God has a use for Satan, it seems that that use is to put pressure on man.

Burning thought
thats such a ridiculous excuse to me

"god keeps Satan around and allows Wars and horrific acts because Satan has a job to do"

what rubbish, if they excist and God was so powerful he would click his fingers as you say and Satan would be gone, i think he just simply doesnt have such power, if he ever did, his power has actually wayned, all fingers can point to this, all the bad things that happen on top of acts that if there was an all powerful God why would he not stop it

i think Satan is probably on equel if not greater footing, i am more inclined to side with the idea that the more good happening in the world, the more power to God or the more worshippers for one their power grows, from what i see Satan is going to be on at least a similier level to God, God would not be able to quench him, otherwise why wouldnt he?

God has no need and should have no wants if he is truly divine for a demonic being to torment humanity, God could simply click his fingers nad make it so if he is so powerful, ofcourse he does not

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Burning thought
thats such a ridiculous excuse to me

"god keeps Satan around and allows Wars and horrific acts because Satan has a job to do"

what rubbish, if they excist and God was so powerful he would click his fingers as you say and Satan would be gone, i think he just simply doesnt have such power, if he ever did, his power has actually wayned, all fingers can point to this, all the bad things that happen on top of acts that if there was an all powerful God why would he not stop it

i think Satan is probably on equel if not greater footing, i am more inclined to side with the idea that the more good happening in the world, the more power to God or the more worshippers for one their power grows, from what i see Satan is going to be on at least a similier level to God, God would not be able to quench him, otherwise why wouldnt he?

God has no need and should have no wants if he is truly divine for a demonic being to torment humanity, God could simply click his fingers nad make it so if he is so powerful, ofcourse he does not


Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
If Jesus can kick all of the Roman-Greco Gods asses at once, he can take satan, even without God.

BlaxicanHydra
Originally posted by Burning thought
thats such a ridiculous excuse to me

"god keeps Satan around and allows Wars and horrific acts because Satan has a job to do"

what rubbish, if they excist and God was so powerful he would click his fingers as you say and Satan would be gone, i think he just simply doesnt have such power, if he ever did, his power has actually wayned, all fingers can point to this, all the bad things that happen on top of acts that if there was an all powerful God why would he not stop it

i think Satan is probably on equel if not greater footing, i am more inclined to side with the idea that the more good happening in the world, the more power to God or the more worshippers for one their power grows, from what i see Satan is going to be on at least a similier level to God, God would not be able to quench him, otherwise why wouldnt he?

God has no need and should have no wants if he is truly divine for a demonic being to torment humanity, God could simply click his fingers nad make it so if he is so powerful, of course he does not

He can simply click his fingers, and he will. The Bible already states this. God is allowing Satan to dwell on Earth after he kicked Satan's ass, who you say is his equal, out of Heaven and on to the Earth. The reason he even allows Satan to do all of this is because it is A) Part of the result of Adam and Eve's suffering, and B) He allows Satan to stay on Earth to give Humanity a choice. He uses Satan to weed out the believers and non-believers. God and Jesus have proved many times there superiority over Satan. Jesus simply telling Satan to STFU and go away made him leave, God punking Satan and hurtling him out of Heaven to Earth. Hell, even regular people who are infused with the holy spirit can dispel Demons with just a word or phrase. Satan has NEVER and never will show anything that even appears to make him superior.

Burning thought
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
He can simply click his fingers, and he will. The Bible already states this. God is allowing Satan to dwell on Earth after he kicked Satan's ass, who you say is his equal, out of Heaven and on to the Earth. The reason he even allows Satan to do all of this is because it is A) Part of the result of Adam and Eve's suffering, and B) He allows Satan to stay on Earth to give Humanity a choice. He uses Satan to weed out the believers and non-believers. God and Jesus have proved many times there superiority over Satan. Jesus simply telling Satan to STFU and go away made him leave, God punking Satan and hurtling him out of Heaven to Earth. Hell, even regular people who are infused with the holy spirit can dispel Demons with just a word or phrase. Satan has NEVER and never will show anything that even appears to make him superior.

yes but all this is from Gods book, i dont have Satans black book with me now (there is one, cant remember its name) but that tells you a diffrent side of Satan, all this you say is from the Bible and you states which is "gods word" no one else if you belive in God ofcourse, imo its all rubish from some very clever writers years ago but God wouldnt say anything bad about himself, he could simply lie and use false prophercies to try and prove he is all powerful and we should bow to him

Also their all just ridiculous excuses

"He allows Satan to stay on Earth to give Humanity a choice. He uses Satan to weed out the believers and non-believers"

this is so huh? well this shows God doesnt have infinite intellect afterall...he needs Satan to weed out non belivers, some all powerful entity cannot even work out who does and does not bleive in him without Satan, its also said he can see past, present and future, thats two lies so far, if he can see all that then why does he bother, he should be able to instantly know every non beliver if he is so all powerful...obviously he is not, so hes lied twice according to you

"God and Jesus have proved many times there superiority over Satan."

hmm so where? the bible? can we find any other book that isnt constantly yelling the strengths of God or isnt supposed ot be Gods word that would say this?....no...okie..must be one of Gods little trickeries

"Satan has NEVER and never will show anything that even appears to make him superior"

another lie, look around you m8, theres Rape, Murder and wickedness all around us, even the seemingly most innocent people die, think of the Nukelear bomb that killed so many innocents that God could not somehow stop, the war in Iraq happening now, innocent soldiers are dieing perhaps on both sides, you can do one of two things if you belive in spirits, say its Gods will which means God is a cruel and monstrous being who doesnt deserbe the worship of a group of lowly tramps or that Satan has overpowered the will of both God and jesus and is bringing war and terror upon humanity

Alfheim
Who said that Satan was evil and weaker than God?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Alfheim
Who said that Satan was evil and weaker than God?

Christianity


Satans probably far stronger and more benevolent

Alfheim
Originally posted by Burning thought
Christianity

Yeah, so in other words if we looked at the Bible from an open minded point of view we could see that Satan is Gods equal. Furthermore the concept of demons came from paganism and orginally the word demon meant wise spirit. I think some demons were worshipped before Christanity.

Hel theres even a guy in the Bible called Melchezdik(not exactly how you spell it) who has the same attributes as God

Originally posted by Burning thought

Satans probably far stronger and more benevolent

Maybe.

PITT_HAPPENS
If you go by the Bible then God wins but this is also Gods book and with the old adage "The winners write the history" God will look the best. If you look at it from the stand point of good and evil, good can not exist without evil and everything in the universe has its equal but opposite force so it would be a draw unless you have something that would tip the scales. When you have two equal sides the smallest change will upset the balance, so if you look at the human race as the pivot point then it would go to the Devil by 2 to 1.

ADarksideJedi
It depends on how you look at it.But God did make the devil.The devil is a fallen angel who went againist God, so he was cast out of heaven and into hell.jm

Burning thought
true, it is belived God made the Devil and caste him out of hell


but is also said that perhaps the Devil simply left heaven because everyone was bowing before humans and he simply could not stand it because of his pride and so he left is also a possiblity

Shelbert Lemon
Ive not heard that one before.

I dont believe Satan (what the Bible tells us is Satan) exist either way but that is an interesting theory.

PITT_HAPPENS
Just because he "made" him doesn't mean that he can't be stronger than the father.

Burning thought
indeed pitt

but yes Shelbert its something i read, little while ago, when God created man he presented it to the Angels including Satan and said that they will be the rulers of earth and asked them all to bow, but Satan being the proudest and who is said to of loved God more than any of the other angels did not want to bow, he did not want to bow before mortal weak creatures and so its said God threw him out, ofcourse ive also heard its possible Satan simply left because he was outraged at bowing before such mortal beings

Grand_Moff_Gav
Jesus Vs Satan





Jesus drives Satan away, much like he drives Satan's demons out of man.

During The Last Days

PITT_HAPPENS
Originally posted by Burning thought
indeed pitt

but yes Shelbert its something i read, little while ago, when God created man he presented it to the Angels including Satan and said that they will be the rulers of earth and asked them all to bow, but Satan being the proudest and who is said to of loved God more than any of the other angels did not want to bow, he did not want to bow before mortal weak creatures and so its said God threw him out, ofcourse ive also heard its possible Satan simply left because he was outraged at bowing before such mortal beings That is because he didn't bow before me stick out tongue

2D_MASTER
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Jesus drives Satan away, much like he drives Satan's demons out of man.


He also kicked all the Roman-Greco Gods asses, he knocked out Poisiden with one back hand. Jesus even punched Hercules in the stomach, causing Hercules to cry like a b*tch.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Jesus Vs Satan





Jesus drives Satan away, much like he drives Satan's demons out of man.

During The Last Days

Yeah so? Hasnt the Bible been altered to suit peoples opinions such as The Council of Nicea?

Hasnt the Bible taken aspects of paganism?

Grand_Moff_Gav
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah so? Hasnt the Bible been altered to suit peoples opinions such as The Council of Nicea?

Hasnt the Bible taken aspects of paganism?

And umm...roll eyes (sarcastic)

Alfheim
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
And umm...roll eyes (sarcastic)

Could you put that in a response I could reply to?

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